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The game shown here, Midnight Club II, required the CD to be in the drive to play it. With the advent of Steam and companies releasing older games on Steam, the
by robbiet480 3y ago
The game shown here, Midnight Club II, required the CD to be in the drive to play it. With the advent of Steam and companies releasing older games on Steam, they needed a way to bypass that check. Bypassing a CD (commonly called No-CD) was a very common crack/DRM bypass back in the day. Rockstar didn't want to bring up old source code and find someone who understood it enough to remove the check, so instead they just installed a No-CD crack into the existing EXE and uploaded the thing to Steam.
- baobabKoodaa 3y agoSounds like Razor could sue Rockstar for copyright infringement. That would be hilarious.
- jiofj 3y agoThey could. They would lose, though
- bogwog 3y agoBecause Rockstar is a huge company, or because the dev wouldn’t have a case?
- wongarsu 3y agoA No-CD crack might not be transformative enough to warrant copyright protection as derivative work in the US. But they could sue in a jurisdiction that is more likely to give them a favorable outcome. Handling of derivative works and the minimum threshold for copyright varies considerably between countries.
- Guvante 3y agoLikely Rockstar would counter sue for violating their original Copyright and the terms of use attached to them. At best it would be a wash, there is a decent chance the damages for the countersuit would lead to a net loss.
- ArnoVW 3y agoThe can sue them for anti-circumvention statutes in the DMCA. But not for infringement, since the developers did not do the infringement, they only enabled it.
- favorited 3y agoHow did the cracked game enter circulation, if the crackers didn't redistribute it?
- methou 3y agoIn this very specific case, it's a no-cd patch, you can be a legitimate owner of the copy but for some very valid reasons that do not want load the CD every time you play the game. (Like disk and/drive wearing, or just don't like the hassle)
- hnick 3y agoDo those statutes apply for interoperability? Which takes precedence? This is basically how Rockstar used it - to make the game work on computers without CDs. So the actual rights holder has recognised that this tool or one like it is legitimately required for interoperability, between the game as a piece of technology and a modern computer. They won't work together otherwise. Maybe I am being too tricky but that's how I see it. And if that makes it a legitimate work then it's funny to think about the consequences.
- ArnoVW 3y agoCertain excemptions are provided in the DMCA, and have been established via jurisprudenence: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/10/28/2021-23311/exemption-to-prohibition-on-circumvention-of-copyright-protection-systems-for-access-control https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2021/10/28/2021-23... Geeks often think that the law is some sort of blockchain-esque thing that is absolute, context-free and machine-interpretable. In reality, many laws require 'guilty intent' (mens rea). This is why we have 'judges', who perform 'judgement'. So the same tool called 'no-cd', marketed as a backup tool may be judged 'OK', where 'WaR3z HaCk.exe' published by a group of known software pirates will be judged 'anti circumvention'
- freejazz 3y agoI don't think people on HN understand what a derivative work is, considering how often I see it referenced incorrectly. You can't make a derivative work without a license. That's why it's derivative. It derivates from the copyrighted work and is therefore within the domain of the copyright and under the control of the copyright's owner. A Harry Potter spin-off about Hermione (I don't know anything about HP, sorry in advanced) is a derivative of the original Harry Potter work. As I'm sure you are well aware, you cannot sell copies of your Hermione spin-off, because that'd be copyright infringement, because it is a derivative work.
- dragonwriter 3y ago> I don't think people on HN understand what a derivative work is, considering how often I see it referenced incorrectly. Very true. > You can't make a derivative work without a license. T You can, but it is a copyright violation to do so unless an exception (like Fair Use) applies. A derivative work is also a work eligible for copyright in its own right, and as such is copyright by the creator by operation of law when fixed in a tangible form, whether or not it also violates someone else’s copyright. > It derivates “derives” > from the copyrighted work and is therefore within the domain of the copyright and under the control of the copyright's owner. No, producing it is within the legally exclusive rights of the copyright holder subject to the limitations on those rights, but once created the copyright in the derivative is not under the control of the copyright holder of the original (though transferring or licensing back may be part of the resolution of copyright violation lawsuit over its creation.)
- antiterra 3y agoI thought Pickett v Prince established precedent that you can’t copyright an unauthorized derivative work. See 17 U.S.C. §103(a), which says that derivative works can be copyrighted, but that does not extend to any part of the work in which such material has been used unlawfully. (not a lawyer but I did audit this class at a law school)
- bri3d 3y agoIf the patch is distributed on its own, without the original binary, is it still a derivative work? Is the unique, creative work of writing "perform XYZ instruction at XYZ address," in lieu of the original executable, still derivative? This is actually an unanswered/unproven question that comes up quite a bit in automotive tuning, where individuals and tuning companies modify OEM calibrations and create application software patches which, while they are unique and perform stand-alone functions, run on top of OEM ECU software.
- itiro 3y agoMost DRM crackers aren’t in it for money but to prove DRM is a flawed and ridiculous concept. That was my scene back in the day when there was less risk of the Feds kicking in the door. At least back then most of us saw it as a learning experience.
- parineum 3y agoWhat's the copyrighted work here?
- baobabKoodaa 3y agoBoth the original game and the no-cd crack are copyrighted works.
- parineum 3y agoWho owns the no-cd copyright?
- baobabKoodaa 3y agoWell, obviously the people who wrote it. They don't own the game, which they didn't make, but they own rights to the cracking code, which they did make.
- enos_feedler 3y agoFormer cracker for rzr here :) did not do this game unfortunately.
- effingwewt 3y agoThank you for your service o7
- apgwoz 3y agoOh, you "didn't" do this game, wink wink, nudge nudge. ;)
- pizzafeelsright 3y agoQuestion for you from the 17 year old me. Why did you do this? Fame? Money? Challenge? I didn't know enough to so it myself and no one would teach me.
- blagie 3y agoHaving done similar (not identical) things at that age, a lot of it is quite literally for the LOLs, and more than a bit is for community identity. Fame: Non-existent, since you don't tell people. Money: Non-existent, you don't get paid. In retrospect, I think a major drivers for teenagers for a lot of activities is a sense of identity. You feel like one of the role models in [name your favorite hacker movie]. It's the same reason why punks wore spikes and mohawks, goths wore black, and people might pick a genre of music (even if privately). I'd guess a lot of more negative things, like vandalism, are similar too. You become part of a community too. And ultimately, you contribute to it. As much as it might be illegal, cracking software helps other kids who can't afford that software. Few real engineers will use a hacked copy of AutoCAD, and literally everyone I know began to pay for music once they could afford it. On the other end of the bell curve are kids who can't afford those. Providing them with access is a community service. And it's going up against The Man. It's illegal, but by the code of ethics we followed at the time, it was very ethical.
- joshmn 3y agoI've done something similar in recent past on a large scale: I did it because it was interesting, I wanted to prove DRM is a flawed concept and broken construct, and because the community which I built (as a result) was really great and a home to me when I didn't ever experience one. It was never about money or fame, it was about providing something to people that had a value. People said the "thing" I provided was better than the "real thing", and that gave me a sense of pride: I'd never get hired by the company that made "real thing" to make their "thing" better because I didn't have the credentials on paper. But at least my "thing" was better.
- 3abiton 3y agoI wonder if No-CD was released under a specific open-source license, that would be hilarious
- jonny_eh 3y agoRazor1911 was the cracking group in this particular case.
- gintoddic 3y agounderstated context here
- OnlyMortal 3y agoHeh. I recall their demos on the Amiga.
- tpmx 3y agoProbably Norway's most long-lived and industrious software export success. Founded in 1985.
- readyplayernull 3y agoSomehow I expected them to be founded since 1911, cracking those Analytical Engines.
- nikanj 3y agoIt’s 0x777, making fun of all the l33+ 666 groups
- OnlyMortal 3y ago666. My favourite error code to return when there’s a “wtf” error.
- bonestamp2 3y agoThat's hilarious. I wonder what the license model is for the crack that they used.
- kolanos 3y agoDid Rockstart have to license Razor1911's cracking software? It would be ironic if Rockstar was in violation of Razor1911's copyright.
- yomlica8 3y agoAre we sure they didn't just lose the source code entirely?
- rightbyte 3y agoProbably unbuildable anyways without a lot of effort if you can't recreate the workstation that was building it.
- fragmede 3y agoThese days you'd save a VM image, but if we all move off x86, what good will that do?
- Moomoomoo309 3y agoQEMU can run VMs that are a different architecture than the host. There's obviously a performance penalty to doing that, but it can be done.
- michaelt 3y agoThese days you'd save a VM image, in case you need to rebuild the code in 20 years. Then in 20 years you boot up the image and find you can't log in because your cloud Windows account was deleted 10 years ago for inactivity, your build toolchain is too outdated to download artefacts, the vendor of your text-padding library deleted it in a fit of pique, your code-signing certificates have expired, the guy whose cell phone is on the corporate account 2FA left the company 15 years ago, the OS vendor won't allow new releases to use those obsolete, deprecated APIs.....
- jamesfinlayson 3y agoYou'd hope not, but it could be backed on something like a tape drive: too much effort to retrieve and then access.
- ewzimm 3y agoDid anyone at Rockstar ever confirm that it was an official decision? I wonder if they did assign someone all that and they took a shortcut.
- rpdillon 3y agoThis is a great example of how today's "piracy" is tomorrow's "only working copy left". I wish there were a more formal way to explicitly allow this, though I'm probably just pining for shorter copyright terms. This game was released 20 years ago, longer than the original U.S. copyright term of 14 years.
- chrisco255 3y agoDisney lawyers, meanwhile, are looking to extend copyright to 50 years beyond the life of the author's 3rd generation descendant or the heat death of the universe, whichever comes last.
- darth_avocado 3y agoThe way things are going, the death of Disney may come quicker.
- StimDeck 3y agoLolwat? Have you been to Disney? They take all your money. Have you watched a movie? Chances are Disney made it happen. I want to know in what world a company like Disney goes anywhere and then send Microsoft and Amazon there.
- red-iron-pine 3y agobased on what? their stock is taking a hit but they're still a big, scary corp, and will probably win the fights with FL's a-hole governor.
- raymond_goo 3y agoWalt Disney share price declined 3.9% on Thursday to close at $82.47, its lowest level in nearly nine years, or since October 16, 2014. Investors expect more weakness in Disney shares in the next few months. https://www.livemint.com/market/stock-market-news/disney-share-price-falls-3-9-to-close-at-lowest-level-in-nearly-nine-years-11692932062912.html https://www.livemint.com/market/stock-market-news/disney-sha...
- Akronymus 3y agoOne game I really loved as a kid, sim coaster, has a nocd crack floating around, sadly it blocks some needed features further into the game. And I can't find any non-crack iso to load into the VM. (Can't rip it myself, due to not having a cd drive anymore)