14 ms·
Oscilloscope watch ships after 10 years on Kickstarter
- turnsout 3y agoFile under “hardware is hard”
- aeyes 3y agoUnlikely, they actually sold several oscilloscopes in other form factors before.
- tonmoy 3y agoApple made devices in other form factors for decades before being able to market the Apple Watch.
- greggsy 3y agoThey weren’t in a wrist watch format though
- distract8901 3y agoI encourage you to read this sentence out loud, real slowly. Maybe look at a picture of an oscilloscope while you do it. If you take all the critical chips out of an oscilloscope, remove the silicon dice from their encapsulation, you still take up more area than any smartwatch. Just the main processor is typically larger than an Apple watch. On top of that you need 1-2 ADC chips of a similar size, several hundred MB of RAM chips, a ton of discrete components that form the very sensitive frontend, then you also need a battery and a display, ports, and mounting hardware. This is like saying Intel has been selling i7 processors for decades, so they should be able to pack it into a watch. Packing an oscilloscope into a watch is several orders of magnitude more complex than you seem to think. Oscilloscopes of any configuration are many orders of magnitude more complex than you imply here.
- Aurornis 3y ago> you still take up more area than any smartwatch. Just the main processor is typically larger than an Apple watch. On top of that you need 1-2 ADC chips of a similar size, several hundred MB of RAM chips, I think you’re overestimating the functionality of this smartwatch. They didn’t really make a full oscilloscope with hundreds of megabytes of RAM and high sample rates and many effective bits of precision. They just used a microcontroller with a built-in ADC and exposed those ADC inputs with some input protection and filtering. Yes it’s more than a watch, but making a simple oscilloscope out of a micro with an ADC is a relatively simple EE project. It’s often done as a small project for EE students. The real challenge was making a UI, packaging it, and shipping a hardware project to a small number of people.
- aeyes 3y agoMaybe I should have written it out: They sold several "oscilloscopes" with similar feature set in very small form factors before. The smallest device being 5x3cm in size. This is the website where you can see the product line up: https://www.gabotronics.com/ https://www.gabotronics.com/ Of course this isn't a full featured oscilloscope, it never promised to be one.
- turnsout 3y agoHave you ever shipped a new hardware product of your own design? It doesn't matter if you already have the electronics ironed out. It's still hard.
- spartanatreyu 3y agoEven "software is hard" I backed a game that was announced 10 years ago (in exactly 58 days) that still hasn't released: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1183462809/paradise-lost-first-contact https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1183462809/paradise-los... It's been so long that the consoles it was announced for don't exist any more. Anyone remember the Wii U, and the OUYA? As far as I understand, they had already made a bunch of the game, then their programmer left and they had to find a new programmer and start again, then there was engine ports, and a side project, and etc..., and covid, and etc... The lack of observable progress and long gaps between release notes made the community comments devolve into absolute toxicity. Strangely enough, if it ever does come out I think the press of a game that has taken over a decade to build might give it some more attention than it otherwise would have received. Apparently they're still working on it. The other game I backed (that was made by a guy with heart condition who wanted to leave something behind before he kicked the bucket) did come out and it was awesome: https://store.steampowered.com/app/257850/Hyper_Light_Drifter/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/257850/Hyper_Light_Drifte... (the guy ended up surviving and is continuing to work in game dev)
- wkat4242 3y agoYeah or Neal Stephenson's swordfighting game that ended up in 'hey guys I burned through all your money and the game wasn't much fun so bye now!' Lol
- totetsu 3y agoI backed two of the peak Kickstarter games, Broken age and rimworld, then I never played them.
- SamBam 3y agoI backed it for a dollar so I could get updates, and I remember looking at early demos and thinking "this will never be fun." That said, every time someone mentions the Clang software package I think "wait, that game is still around?"
- fbdab103 3y agoEvidently Paradise Lost has been in development so long, that someone scooped their game concept (metroidvania where an alien is terrorizing the humans), Carrion[0]. Although, Carrion leaned significantly harder into the horror element than what I saw from the Paradise Lost trailer. [0] https://www.gog.com/en/game/carrion https://www.gog.com/en/game/carrion
- femto 3y agoPlease tell me that the wristband can be placed around a wire and the watch will also act as clamp ammeter!
- d1str0 3y agoNot quite 10 years, but my Ultimate Hacking Keyboard took quite a bit longer than first estimates. Super happy with how it ended up turning out and the runners of the project kept us updated Monthly without fail with actual, candid updates. I still love my UHKs and use them every day.
- keyle 3y agoI wasn't aware of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard. Thanks for broadening my horizon and probably robbing me of some savings.
- ComputerGuru 3y agoI have a brand new one I can sell you for less of your savings, if you're interested! I was an early backer but I tried it for about an hour before I realized the lack of F-keys and the lack of Esc were just unacceptable for me.
- Titan2189 3y agoOh whow. Thanks for pointing that out. I am so confused, "Ultimate hacking keyboard" implies for me that you're a hardcore vim user. How can this have been developed without an ESC key?
- terinjokes 3y agoYou get the "key cluster" module and put it under your left thumb, as is common in other split keyboards.
- OJFord 3y agoHow many 'hardcore vim users' use the actual physical Esc key for that (back to normal) purpose anyway? It's so awkwardly positioned I thought that was often among one's first bindings. (I don't have a UHK and though I looked before I don't think it's for me, just saying.)
- m3kw9 3y agoPretty much wait till electronics advance enough to have these off the shelf oscilloscope-in-a-chip.
- greggsy 3y agoI’m hoping for a low cost SDR type package to enter the market, if it’s not already here
- edrxty 3y agoLMS7002M is an option if you want to do something crazy, otherwise RTL2832U
- edrxty 3y agoXilinx RFSoC is is essentially that. CPU + FPGA + ADCs all in one package. Just be ready to shell out because they're almost entirely being sold to people building extremely sophisticated weapons.
- greesil 3y agoHow much bandwidth are we talking about here?
- edrxty 3y agoHighest end part: 7.125GHz 8x or 6x 9.851GSPS DACs 8x 2.95GSPS and 2x 5.9GSPS ADCs or 6x 5.9GSPS So in other words, as much as you want.
- pjc50 3y agoLooked at those specs, guesstimated "about ten grand", and: https://uk.farnell.com/xilinx/ek-u1-zcu111-g/eval-kit-arm-cortex-a53-cortex/dp/2984666 https://uk.farnell.com/xilinx/ek-u1-zcu111-g/eval-kit-arm-co... OK, so that's the dev kit and the part itself is probably only about half that, but it's still necessarily going to be a very, very expensive one.
- NotYourLawyer 3y agoLooks like it was printed on a 10 year old 3D printer too.
- Titan2189 3y agoYeah, that was my first thought. By now 3D printing technology has improved so much, that surely no-one would dare to let anything going to customers look like that.
- Waterluvian 3y agoUnless the goal is just to fulfil an obligation and get the hell out.
- NotSuspicious 3y agoOkay but now I want one.
- CuriousCosmic 3y agoYeah the article shows a prototype. The actual product: https://twitter.com/BitBangingBytes/status/1695192177310150993 https://twitter.com/BitBangingBytes/status/16951921773101509...
- SamBam 3y agoI really can't tell if that's better. Going by the one image there (unsure if there's some thread on X that is being hidden from me), the buttons look 3D printed, there's some very weird serial number(?) or something that looks poorly 3D printed on the bottom, and we can't see the edges, so no idea if the layers are visible or not.
- imtringued 3y agoYeah the lettering is terrible and oh god those buttons. Couldn't he just have bought some injection moulded ones and designed around those?
- madengr 3y ago“Now you can tell time and measure current on the go.” So it comes with current probe built into the band?
- mensetmanusman 3y agoStill waiting for my textblade…
- bb88 3y agoI guess they were told it was good enough to ship. They apparently had a warehouse full of them too!
- ianburrell 3y agoI am glad I canceled my order for that. I did get burned by Panono, which is 3D ball camera, who took a long time and got bought out after running out of money. Who offered discount on new camera model that was much more expensive. I had already bought one of consumer 3D cameras which was much cheaper if lower resolution.
- mensetmanusman 3y agoI never canceled, I expect St. Michael to hand me one after death.
- vachina 3y agoSell a dream and wait for the market to figure out a finished product for you. Genius.
- teuobk 3y agoI was one of the Kickstarter backers of this, with my purchase/commitment happening on October 19, 2013. Gabe (the guy making the oscilloscope watch) sent updates every few days for the first month or so, then roughly monthly into 2014, then a few times in 2015, then a pause, and then a few updates in late 2018 and early 2019. After that, it was radio silence for over four years until July 30th of this year, announcing that the devices were actually going to ship. To say I never expected to actually get the watch after, say, 2015 would understate things considerably. In fairness, I still have yet to actually receive it.
- hackernewds 3y agoFWIW you lost our given inflation. Technically, he could have invested all the funds, grown it by 20% per year in the SPY and returned you still a $100 watch for your $100, pocketing the difference How is this legal?
- bmacho 3y agoIt should be legal for 2 parties to do some risky business together if they trust each other, and are both aware of the risks. It is hard to distinguish it from frauds (e.g. what Holmes and Theranos committed) nevertheless it should be legal.
- selcuka 3y ago> It is hard to distinguish it from frauds (e.g. what Holmes and Theranos committed) nevertheless it should be legal. I believe there is a difference between promising something that you know can't be done, and promising something that can be done, but failing to do it within time/budget.
- Someone 3y agoThere is, and it’s easy to discriminate between the obviously possible and the obvious frauds, but there is a gray area where that’s hard. Even promising something that can’t be done need not be fraud because the developer can have reasonable arguments that it can’t be done yet. Even if the developer has doubts as to whether they will be able to do it, or even whether it actually is possible, it’s not fraud if they clearly outline the risks.
- qingcharles 3y agoI bought into Star Citizen on Kickstarter in 2013, then went to jail for 10 years. Got out and it's still not done...
- chillbill 3y agoWhat did you do to go to jail?
- magicalhippo 3y agoI was thinking something horrible but then I recalled how the US jailed some guys for years due to transporting some lobsters in a plastic bag[1], so yea... [1]: https://www.economist.com/leaders/2010/07/22/rough-justice https://www.economist.com/leaders/2010/07/22/rough-justice
- louzell 3y agoWell that certainly piqued my interest. Found this too, though: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/50631/did-abner-schoenwetter-spend-6-5-years-in-jail-because-he-used-plastic-bags-inst https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/50631/did-abner...
- skywal_l 3y agoFunny how disinformation can spread so easily. Reading that stackexchange link throws a different shade entirely. The article, which is about the real subject of american incarceration rate, present those dudes as innocent bystanders commiting a minor offence which should not even be an offence. On the other hand, these guys have been illegaly exploiting wild life in a foreign country for almost a decade and got jailed. Nothing to see here.
- mcherm 3y agoActually, there IS one thing to see here: apparently a notable failure of journalism from The Economist.
- tjoff 3y agoDon't know the story about this one and I'm sure the creator is relieved to actually being able to finish it. I've "kickstarted" a few projects that didn't go anywhere (yet?), and the toil it can be for the creator can be really bad. Of course you don't want to rip your customers but if you are doing this on your spare time and when a project drags over a decade over projected timeline sucks, having it constantly in the back of your mind. I can feel burdened by my own personal projects that don't get anywhere and those are only for me and I haven't spend anyone else's money either.
- xp84 3y agoI can't decide why this is proof why one should never back any complex manufactured good, least of all electronics, on Kickstarter -- or ... ... proof that I'm a cynical jerk who's missing out. Maybe the things I backed 8-10 years ago that taught me this lesson will actually be headed my way any day now! Overall my policy is I would back works of art on Kickstarter, but never any item where I'm not absolutely positive "Figure out how to actually make X" is NOT one of the steps on their plan.
- wkat4242 3y agoI've backed the Oculus Rift, the Pebble and a few others that turned out great. Oculus even gave me a Rift consumer version which they didn't have to. But the Golden age is over and it's mainly scams, free marketing and rebranded Chinese OEM stuff now.
- EricBetts 3y agoFlipper zero was legit
- Daneel_ 3y agoI miss my pebble so much :( Mine died the glitched-screen death, otherwise I'd still be rocking it today. Nothing I did revived it, unfortunately. To this day there's nothing I'm aware of that provides similar functionality (7+ day battery life, custom code/watch faces, water proof, apple compatible)
- thecyborganizer 3y agoNew-in-box Pebbles can still be found on eBay, and a clone of Pebble's web services is actively maintained and supported by the Rebble community: https://rebble.io/ https://rebble.io/
- Ekaros 3y agoMy take is that if it is popular product, you can get one when it is released. No need to commit money early. And if you are ready to wait you probably even get it at discount for same price on some later sale.
- jacquesm 3y agoThis is quite amazing, both from a complexity, hacking/making and persistence perspective. What an accomplishment. Making a watch is hard. Making a scope is a lot harder. Combining the two is art. Kudos to the person behind it for seeing it through, I'm pretty sure that most people would have given up.
- jtwaleson 3y agoAm I the only bothered by the tagline “Now you can tell time and measure current on the go.” ? An oscilloscope measures voltage, not current.
- jacquesm 3y agoWell, at least they got close. It's one of those 'headlines about things you know something about' things.
- trevyn 3y agoTell me you’ve never measured current with an oscilloscope without telling me that you’ve never measured current with an oscilloscope.
- jtwaleson 3y agoHahaha you’re actually right, I bought my first scope a couple of weeks ago. But the primary mode of operation is voltage rather than current. It’s a bit like saying a thermometer is used to measure altitude.
- jacquesm 3y agoNo, not quite. It is actually impossible to measure a voltage without any current flow, ever so slight but it is always there. It is perfectly possible to measure temperature and altitude entirely independently of each other.
- jtwaleson 3y agoMy grasp on electricity is elementary, but as I understand it: measuring current in a circuit with a scope is always done via a conversion to a voltage, because that is what the scope is designed to measure. So the current is always derived from a measured voltage. With my silly thermometer example I meant: you can boil water, measure the temperature and derive the atmospheric pressure and altitude. Should have probably worded that clearer. Edit: and yes I understand what you are saying. Internally the scope measures voltage using the current that’s flowing across something with a very high resistance.
- peter_d_sherman 3y agoGreat idea! Even though this has already been created -- I think it would be an interesting project to attempt to create one's own oscilloscope watch... Functionally, it's just a 3D printed watch case, watch bands, an 8-bit microcontroller, LCD screen, battery, oscilloscope probes, a little bit of custom software, and some circuitry to block excessive currents... Oh sure, it would probably be much easier (and cheaper!) to buy this than make one -- but I think it would be highly interesting to learn what goes into making one... Any serious student of electronics should, as a project, make their own oscilloscope... it would be a great teaching project! All of that being said, kudos to the inventor of this excellent oscilloscope watch, it looks really cool -- you'll probably sell a whole bunch of them! So, well done!
- pjc50 3y ago> 8-bit microcontroller Scope with 8-bit resolution is a logic analyzer with delusions of grandeur. 16 bits is realistically the useful minimum; if you want to do scaling in digital rather than the analogue front-end, you'll want 24 which is significantly more expensive. So you want at the very least a 16-bit microcontroller and in practice just an ARM. Next question is what you want to do about capture rate. 20MHz would be nice, the standard for thirty year old CRT scopes, but realistically audio frequency or 1MHz is going to be about the most you can do. TBH, something that can capture I2C and SPI and audio frequency does actually cover some useful use cases. Might be fun to give it a 3.5mm stereo jack for the probes or direct audio input. > some circuitry to block excessive currents The scope is high-impedance so this shouldn't normally be a problem. (You're not going to have a 50 ohm BNC input on a watch). You might want to think about voltage, but the sort of person who decides they want to look at the mains frequency cycle on a device strapped to their wrist won't be deterred by warning stickers.
- a-dub 3y agokickstarter is skymall for the daring...
- seanhunter 3y agoFun (unrelated) oscilloscope story happened to me recently. I was having some problems with fingers of my hand going numb so the orthopedic surgeon sent me for a procedure she said would be "unfortunately pretty unpleasant" called a "nerve conduction study" with an eminent London professor to try to diagnose the problem. When the day came the dude showed up with a laptop attached to a small box and a number of leads. I said to him[1] "hey there, I'm an engineer, would you mind telling me how this study works" and he (delighted) explained to me that although his title was a professor of neurology he was actually a biomedical engineer and the procedure was hooking me up to an oscilloscope and sending currents down the various nerves of my arm to see whether (or not) they were detectable on the oscilloscope and therefore being conducted properly down the nerves. So I spent 30mins or so having various electric shocks applied to my arm and looking at the pictures on the (very fancy) oscilloscope while shooting the breeze about medical imaging and machine learning with this professor. The procedure was mildly unpleasant but super-interesting as a result. [1] Sort of as a coping strategy because I expected it to be painful.
- jacquesm 3y agoIs your problem resolved? Did you find the cause? I've found that when I bike long distances that no matter what the weather is I have to wear thick padded gloves so that I don't end up with numb fingers for days afterwards.
- epse 3y agoI don't think your issue is super uncommon, I experience it myself, as does most of my family. Unless all of us share an undiagnosed condition of course
- jddj 3y agovibration related? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibration_white_finger https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibration_white_finger
- jacquesm 3y ago
- Animats 3y agoThe idea of an oscilloscope watch is kind of cute, but I don't really want something attached to my wrist with directly connected scope probes. Now if the probes attached to a remote device that used Bluetooth, that would be fine. (Also, an e-ink scope is going to be rather sluggish.)
- ggrelet 3y agoDoes it have micro-USB or USB-C?
- anonzzzies 3y agoHa! I forgot this indeed. I was one of the backers as well.
- helpfulContrib 3y agoAs a very, very early backer, I have one. It is a terribly interesting desktop gadget that I've used for debugging a couple of times. My favourite thing to do is to wrap my code in view with gpio on/off blips, and measure the performance of things .. the Oscilloscope watch is good for that. Mine has a terrible 3D printed case, which broke almost instantly, but I don't intend to wear it much unless I get the better case .. perhaps eventually. The quirky charm of the most long-standing crowdfunding toy in my collection (of many) has its place in my daily life. I mostly just use it to tell time. :)
- britzkopf 3y agoWas this like a puzzling garden path sentence to anyone else?