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Driving around in more rural Georgia, it's not uncommon to see street signs riddled with gunshot holes. I wonder if these airships would attract the same kind o
by zellyn 3y ago
Driving around in more rural Georgia, it's not uncommon to see street signs riddled with gunshot holes. I wonder if these airships would attract the same kind of mischief? I imagine a lot of the inspections are over quite remote areas, though, so that should be less of a problem.
Also, just out of curiosity, how far do your airships travel between refueling, given what you would consider normal conditions and a standard payload?
- whalesalad 3y ago[flagged]
- jermaustin1 3y agoWhile I agree that yes, there will definitely be people who shoot at them, same as shoot at DJI drones, there is no reason to disparage an entire group of people into a caricature.
- whalesalad 3y agoWhy not? We’re surrounded by this behavior it’s not simply a caricature.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y agoDouble points if you hit it with something incendiary so that the hydrogen ignites.
- zkl43tl43 3y ago[dead]
- dang 3y agoPlease stop posting regional flamebait and whatever else this is. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37298978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37298978 also. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- whalesalad 3y agoThis example could quite literally be my nextdoor neighbor. He was ranting and raving to me the other night about the deep state, george soros, how hard he was going to "pray for me" after learning I got vaccinated, etc... If a big white balloon was flying around inspecting power lines I can guarantee he would say something like this and might shoot it. People all over the country would. I think it is inappropriate (and arguably dangerous) to try and pretend that this issue does not exist. Not flamebait. This form of mental illness is its' own pandemic at this point.
- ThomasLaporte 3y agoExactly our first inspections are in remote areas so it should be less of a problem. But, even with those small leaks it's not that much of a problem because the airship itself does not empty that fast! Concerning your question on range: We will easily fly an entire day without refueling (and more), basically an entire day means 200 miles.
- BWStearns 3y agoWould a bullet not be hot enough to ignite the hydrogen? I know the Goodyear blimp takes fire regularly when moving between cities. Like you said the small leaks aren’t a big deal but bullets are hot.
- ThomasLaporte 3y agoActually to create a fire you need the 3 things: Fuel: in our case H2 Heat: in our case hot bullet Oxidizer: in our case there will be only H2 is the enveloppe (O2 won't have the time to enter the envelope along with the bullet). So a fire should not start. We are not at that stage yet, but we can't wait to test it!
- BWStearns 3y agoLet me know if you want to come to Florida and test it haha. It’d be fun to do like up a couple test envelopes and see what happens with a few different rounds.
- nradov 3y agoRegular rifle bullets are not nearly hot enough to ignite gaseous hydrogen. Only something like tracer or incendiary ammunition would be a concern for fire.
- standingconcern 3y agoA broken light bulb or a spark on the ceiling are enough to ignite Hydrogen; and that is why facilities that process it must have ventilation. "A covered Hydrogen filling station must have electricity for ventilation." Agree or disagree? And what about microwave energy beaming? Can microwave wireless energy transfer cause a hole in an airship? What about freak lightning storms while inspecting high energy power lines in a balloon filled with flammable and explosive gas? It looks like it may be possible to store Hydrogen in Sodium Bicarbonate. There are aerospace-grade hydrogen tanks that aren't supposed to explode in a crash landing, but what about midair collision and war? There are people working on drones that hover in midair (that do not add flight and ground risk) that efficiently use the air currents too. I'm afraid [this airship firm] hasn't done a sufficient level of testing to determine how easily the product can become a war liability, and I don't think FAA should clear Hydrogen airships for energy infrastructure inspection.
- tw04 3y ago> Driving around in more rural Georgia, it's not uncommon to see street signs riddled with gunshot holes. My first thought as well. You'd likely need to make it a federal felony to shoot one and have an ad campaign to make it well known or I can't see these lasting 6 months in a rural setting. That's not just a southern thing. I see the same all over the country.
- ygjb 3y agoThe implication is that it's not a federal felony to fire a weapon at a flying aircraft? I know that there are different laws in different countries, but I can't imagine that would be legal, even in the United States! Unfortunately it is also exceedingly likely that the folks who shoot at road signs as their particular outrage against government are most likely to think that surveillance drones are there to spy on them, and not inspect infrastructure. I don't think regulations or laws matter to those folks.
- ThomasLaporte 3y agoYou are right! As we are in Europe we fill like this will be less of an issue than in the US. Nevertheless, we will soon test what happened when we shout our flying HyLighters.
- burnished 3y agoFor a different perspective; I suspect they'd be fine in the US. Signs and drones are different. The former is petty vandalism, so is the latter sometimes but others you might feel pretty justified in removing the little spy camera from your space. But a blimp, high up and clearly doing something? Nah, it'd be fine.
- tristor 3y agoThere are open questions around the limits of airspace below the FAA ceiling and property lines. There's been multiple cases in the US of people intentionally shooting down drones operating above their property, including in urban areas, and it has not yet been heard by the Supreme Court. Common Law held that property owners controlled their property from the Earth to the Heavens, which is inclusive of airspace. The current law in the US says that property owners control their airspace within their "reasonable control". I am not a lawyer, but is is a very open question if you're flying low enough someone can visually sight you and shoot you down over their property, whether or not that this is a violation of the law /for unmanned vehicles/. Drones in particular have become a serious nuisance and many property owners have taken actions against them in the US triggering court cases, most of which haven't yet reached their conclusion. EDIT to add that the rules here even vary by state in the US, in some states you own 83 feet over your property of airspace, in others it could be as much as 400 feet (above 400 feet is controlled airspace under the jurisdiction of the FAA). Generally speaking, shooting any aircraft, jamming any radio signal, or shining laser pointers on any aircraft is already federally illegal in the US and violates FAA/FCC regulations, but it's not clear that these regulations are actually constitutional and enforceable, or that it cannot be an act of self-defense to shoot down a low-flying aircraft intruding on your property.
- tpmx 3y ago[flagged]
- dang 3y ago> This seems like a uniquely american problem. Mitigation: They could focus on the rest of the world, instead. Please don't post nationalistic flamebait (regardless of nation). We've had to ask you this more than once before. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tpmx 3y agoPlease don't overestimate the amplitude of said 'nationalistic flamebait'. I have felt this way about your 'feedback' before. Note: The rate limiting you have imposed on my user meant that I had to wait several hours to post this reply.
- dang 3y agoSorry, but that's like responding to "please don't drop a lit match in a dry forest" with "but it was just a little match". We rate limit accounts when they post too many low-quality comments and/or get involved in flamewars. Unfortunately your account has a history of doing that, so we've rate limited it. If you build up a track record of using HN as intended, you'd be welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll be happy to take a look and hopefully remove the rate limit.
- tpmx 3y agoMy point of view: This is bullshit. I spent a lot of time attempting to contribute quality content here. I feel like you didn't dig deep enough in what I've contributed earlier before deciding that a particular 'nationalistic' comment about the shootings in the US meant that I should be shut down. Examples of pieces I'm proud of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37275940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37275940 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37258787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37258787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37247246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37247246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37216687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37216687 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36170885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36170885 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35831689 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35831689
- japanuspus 3y agoIt is surprisingly difficult to get pure hydrogen to burn. The DOE safety sheet [0] lists an upper flammability limit of 74% which matches my experience pretty well. In other words: gunshots would most likely just cause leakage. [0] https://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/h2_safety_fsheet.pdf https://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/h2_sa...
- quickthrower2 3y agoShooting the thing and watching it come down might be fun enough for some.
- kccqzy 3y agoBut what about after they leak? Wouldn't the hydrogen then mix with air and get below 74%?
- samtho 3y agoIf this is set up similar to other LTA airships (simplified, its bags of air contained by the outer skin with a structure supported by a very light airframe), then a wayward bullet might pierce one or two of these cells - which a certain number of these are allowed to deflate before problems begin. Also, most shot-sign mischief is carried out by shotgun and the max vertical distance it can travel is considerably less than 1000ft.
- ThomasLaporte 3y agothank you for the insight, that's very interesting
- TylerE 3y agoFuel, Oxygen, Spark. You need all three.
- sandworm101 3y agoIt is more complicated. You also need fuel/oxygen ratios that allow for sustained burning, else any fire extinguishes quickly. And heat. There are many fuels that just don't burn unless you heat them up and control their burning to heat the incoming fuel.
- j-a-a-p 3y agoI have witnessed man's desire to shoot anything that flies. It was at a shooting range in the military, my group (ie eight soldiers) each had a full clip and were supposed to do target practice. Suddenly two unsuspicious ducks passed, flying at 2 meters from the ground, at a very low speed. Everybody without exception emptied their clip on these birds (all 100-ish bullets missed fortunately, so good for the Dutch army). Imagine the bonus is a ball of fire in the sky for the winning shot!