28 ms·

Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

449 points by dsr_ 3y ago

anigbrowl 3y ago
I'm appalled that I'm only finding out about this now.
- consumer451 3y ago
  Am I being paranoid in thinking that Musk’s exposure in China & disdain for the LGBTQ community could lead him to lower the reach of tweets related to this issue?
  - krapp 3y ago
    No. At this point Twitter (I refuse to call it "X" and I will die on this hill) is little more than Elon's personal agitprop and trolling platform, and he would absolutely be petty enough to pull something like that.
    - FreshStart 3y ago
      ExTwitter
      - em-bee 3y ago
        i keep getting that urge to click the X to close the window.
        rokkitmensch 3y ago
        I have to stop myself from thumbing or clicking the X. My brain sees it as something that got past the ad filter and needs closing. A hilarious experience in self-observation loops.
    - stuaxo 3y ago
      Xitter works, since you can pronounce the X as "sh"
    - sohex 3y ago
      Personally I’m a fan of ‘the platform/network/website formerly known as Twitter’.
  - kmeisthax 3y ago
    This was explicitly one of the things people were worried about when he bought Twitter. If you didn't notice this your personal filter bubble is giving you ideological blind spots.
    - devnullbrain 3y ago
      Twitter now bravely, aggressively exposes me to both left-wing and right-wing politics [1] [1] for a country I don't live in
      - tibbydudeza 3y ago
        Yes when I could still view tweets without a login I got some shit about some villian called Dark Brandon and a deranged woman using steroids called Margory not from Game Of Thrones. WTF.
    - astrange 3y ago
      This assumes filter bubble theory is true, which it isn't, because being exposed to things outside your bubble mainly makes you resent them even more because they're annoying.
  - tiffanyg 3y ago
    Plausible. However, I would say that a related, more general, and more disturbing hypothesis (in the "big picture") is more plausible: Musk is all-in with China, Saudi Arabia, etc. For various reasons - access to markets, financing, etc. Some of those who left Twitter shortly after the bad deal he made was force-consummated, suggested that it might be far less safe for, say, Saudi dissidents to use the platform than it was prior to his takeover (and, there were "incidents" and indications of incidents before he took over, already). I'd suggest that he has some general directive(s) in place for what to do about certain kinds of potentially sensitive tweets. His claims about "free speech absolutism" are interesting, in the use of the word absolute (think "L'État, c'est moi") and subsequent statements about "following the law" and the resultant behavior. And, of course, his little trolincel fans are the perfect little army of toadies for these kinds of totalitarian governments... just waiting to denounce any "enemies of the people" (i.e., flag tweets so they may be passed on to House of Saud, CPC [CCP], etc.). Edit: It's easy to see that this makes all of the craziness we've witnessed with Twitter, since the takeover, look less crazy. With this as a backdrop. That is: the bad deal is already done, but, some of the rationale and goals can still be salvaged. So, come in, get rid of anyone with a conscience, more experienced, more independent. Have NDAs in place (par for the course already, at "MuskInc", good cover), and a set of foreign indentured servants. The environment is perfectly transformed to extract THIS kind of value from the whole clusterfck. Plus, Elon gets to build his mythos further in multiple ways, including fostering further disgust in "his enemies". And, if / when it all crashes down, well, at least we disrupted all those communities, independent journalist-types, etc.
    - generalizations 3y ago
      Gotta say, this would sound like a conspiracy theory if there were different players involved. That being said, it sounds plausible.
  - Shekelphile 3y ago
    They started doing that day one.
  - altairprime 3y ago
    Not paranoid, but other non-exclusive factors are also in play and much more certain; e.g. “American influencers and press won’t talk about her plight because she’s an intelligent, non-white woman with large breasts and without shame about her body”.
  - 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
    Her account is fine. She has to stop tweeting. You guys need to get a grip. As if the Chinese government needs Musks help.
    - consumer451 3y ago
      I was thinking tweets about her or CCP oppression in general, not necessarily from her. There is plenty of proof out there showing that Musk has his fingers on the scales. Citations can be provided upon request.
      - 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
        Just search for "Naomi Wu" on Twitter. There's plenty of people Tweeting about how she was silenced. You can find all sorts of China critical tweets. Uyghurs, Peng Shui. Take your pick.
        consumer451 3y ago
        Since I don't have an account, I am no longer allowed to search. In any case, this does not at all indicate if the reach of those tweets was restricted or not.
  - gedy 3y ago
    > Musk’s ... disdain for the LGBTQ community I'm not a Musk fan, but what are you referring to?
    - jszymborski 3y ago
      Musk is a transphobe. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-twitter-transgender-hate-speech-b2351923.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-...
      - rippityrip 3y ago
        [flagged]
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    I can't say, but I have been following Wu for a year or more and we interacted maybe once a month. Looking back through the timeline the last tweet of hers that I remember seeing was from late June. I rarely follow new people but don't easily notice when someone falls out of my feed, and Wu would tweet only once or twice a week normally.
- crumpled 3y ago
  I'm appalled that it was only written about just now. I looked for stories for weeks after the ominous tweet. It was depressing to think that it wasn't considered important.
yardie 3y ago
For context her last Tweet: "Ok for those of you that haven't figured it out I got my wings clipped and they weren't gentle about it- so there's not going to be much posting on social media anymore and only on very specific subjects. I can leave but Kaidi can't so we're just going to follow the new rules and that's that. Nothing personal if I don't like and reply like I used to. I'll be focusing on the store and the occasional video. Thanks for understanding, it was fun while it lasted."
- 0cVlTeIATBs 3y ago
  From my reading it sounds like her girlfriend Kaidi is under house arrest, and potentially both of them under surveillance. I'm guessing frequent checkins with the local police. Hope I'm not misinterpreting. Article also notes her historic calling out of potential keyboard app keystroke siphoning threats in China could be related. Sogou input recently found to transmit every keystroke by Citizen Lab.
  - ronyclau 3y ago
    I don't think she meant her girlfriend is under house arrest (though possibly too), I guess she meant she can leave the country but her girlfriend can't. Uyghur are systematically suppressed and discriminated in China. It's very hard for them to get even a passport, let alone be allowed to leave the country legally. Given the situation of Naomi now, it's practically impossible for Kaidi to leave China.
stefan_ 3y ago
Getting some ciphersuite error so: https://archive.ph/a6tR8 https://archive.ph/a6tR8
- yoshamano 3y ago
  And I'm getting stuck in an endless captcha loop trying to load the archive.ph site. C'est la vie.
neverrroot 3y ago
SSL error, anyone else? Edit: it works now
ryandrake 3y ago
Strange domain. I was not able to resolve the web site's (hackingbutlegal.com) IP address using Google's DNS, OpenDNS, or my ISP's default resolver. Cloudflare's DNS (1.1.1.1) resolves it to an IP address.
- justinclift 3y ago
  Seems ok here (Sydney, Australia) at present, using Google's DNS (8.8.8.8).
lkramer 3y ago
This is incredibly sad and disturbing, not least because there have been hardly a murmur about this in the west.... I really hope all the best for her and her partner. I hope the tide will turn one day and Chinese people will be allowed to speak their mind again.
rchaud 3y ago
> The omission of her predicament by the media isn't just an oversight—it's a signal suggesting that a significant portion of western media may be increasingly compromised by Beijing's influence, finding themselves unable to criticize foreign policy, lest they rile the tiger and negatively impact their business. Compromised because they didn't provide coverage of a Youtuber in China getting silenced? You make sound as if western media have been dead silent on Uyghur matters, which they have not. As for business interests, I would imagine foreign newspapers aren't carrying much hope of finally cracking the Chinese market.
- stavros 3y ago
  Well, we got no coverage on Wu getting deplatformed, and a bit of coverage on Uyghur matters. Instead, we should have gotten a bit of coverage on the former, and a lot of coverage on the latter.
  - tbrownaw 3y ago
    Isn't it fairly common to be not especially interested in what those other people over there are doing amongst themselves - even if it's genocide or censuring dissidents or whatever - and to care a lot more about important local news like which faction gets to impose their values on the public school curriculum and what color suit the president wore left week?
    - stavros 3y ago
      Yes it is, but, as you say, genocide could probably get airtime instead of the president's suit.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      Perhaps. When I submitted a blurb about Naomi getting arrested it got flagged right quick despite the ample evidence that she was not trying to keep quiet about it in earnest. Make of that what you will. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20462845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20462845
4v0v 3y ago
Censorship from one side or the other is never the answer.
- barry-cotter 3y ago
  No, censorship can totally be the answer to getting people to stop saying things you don’t want them to say if you don’t have any commitment to free speech. See how Tucker Max or Milo Yiannopolous are no longer culturally relevant. Censorship works.
  - throwaway29812 3y ago
    I would argue it's more about eliminating bad faith actors from an otherwise healthy discussion. If you aren't arguing to make a point, just to get a reaction, you have no right to a platform.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    If I can find it again there's a really great video explaining how, to have free speech, you must restrict some speech. Because bad actors use speech and claims om they are "defending free speech!" in bad faith as a weapon to further their ends, and once they're in a position of power will shameless drop the pretenses and restrict any speech that doesn't entrench their position.
    - beefpies 3y ago
      Here's a video on the subject: Debate and Deplatforming https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFAYN6oWyIo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFAYN6oWyIo And it's sequel: Why Deplatforming Works (And Why it Doesn't) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r5C-G0VrjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r5C-G0VrjI
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      Known as the paradox of tolerance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
NathanKP 3y ago
I've been following Naomi Wu on Twitter for years, but I didn't notice that July tweet until reading this post. The reason: I'm barely on Twitter/X anymore because its so bad now, and even when I'm on Twitter/X I don't see stuff I wanted to see because their algorithm is trash now and just likes to highlight conspiracy theories and the latest cringe content from Elon Musk Anyway, I'm super sad to see Naomi Wu so deplatformed, and even sadder that I didn't even notice thanks to how effectively Elon fucked up Twitter. She's not the only one either. So many great voices are lost, and I wonder how many others I missed and haven't noticed yet.
- er4hn 3y ago
  I agree, this is tragic. I always enjoyed her spicy takes on the west, especially her pride in China. They were fierce, but they weren't mindlessly nationalist. She'd take the time to explain how and why people in China felt and she had an articulate pride in her country. Always meant a lot to be able to learn someone elses' viewpoint.
xer0x 3y ago
Thank you for sharing this troubling news.
dayvid 3y ago
I really appreciated her POV on China. Usually it's westerners commenting on events in China. Very rare to have someone born and raised in China who comments on issues openly to her extent in English able to articulate American and Chinese POVs on an issue. She's also living an authentic cyperpunk hacker lifestyle. Hope the best for her and her partner.
yardie 3y ago
My interpretation is since her sexuality was outed by a Western journalist she has had an antagonistic relationship with them. I've replied and responded to some of her Tweets and she definitely has her own identity that doesn't line up with what Western users think. I think they wanted a freedom fighter based in China to criticize the CCP and she was not taking the bait. What I had not anticipated was her needing the exposure to Western media to keep her safe. I naively assumed it was the opposite. Like if she didn't stand to high or make much noise it would be water under the bridge. Once the politburo realized the Westerners weren't that interested in her they pounced. Wherever she is I hope she's safe.
- passterby 3y ago
  [dead]
- dayvid 3y ago
  She equally called out men being sexist as well as women who didn't like the idea of a female in STEM with a bimbo aesthetic.
- paleface 3y ago
  > […] since her sexuality was outed by a Western journalist […] South Korean journalist, self declared [supposed] “feminist”, and anti white racist - Sarah Jeong - working for Western media outlet Vice. I hope she’s satisfied with her handiwork!…
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    You’re refuting her being a Western journalist because of her ethnicity? She’s been in the US since she was 3 years old, raised Southern Baptist, attended Ivies, and is a US citizen…
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      Paleface is citing her as an example of such a western journalist...
TazeTSchnitzel 3y ago
It's depressing how many Americans and Europeans seem utterly allergic to any kind of nuanced discussion or deeper understanding of China. I think the same applies to the former USSR. I'm not sure why this is.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  Nuance takes time and effort, of course.
  - catchnear4321 3y ago
    not to mention interest. investments of either time or effort, let alone both, are far less likely without that.
- devnullbrain 3y ago
  A language and internet barrier makes it difficult to find unbiased news and views. Most of us have no primary sources, everything is relayed to us by: - People in China who choose or are allowed to bypass the GFW - People who decided to leave China, or whose families decided to leave - People who decided to learn Chinese There can be a political motivation for all three of these.
- rcoveson 3y ago
  Why do you think it's easy for most to have nuanced, dispassionate discussions about the ancient Assyrians but not the Nazis? Spacial/temporal/ideological proximity. We're not likely to become anything like the former, but we fear ourselves (or at least our leadership) becoming more like the latter. Obviously it would be ideal to learn from the good aspects of even the most evil totalitarian regimes, but in practice it's easier to wrap the whole nationalist/collectivist/communist idea-space up in a bundle and throw it out as one, at least in conversations with strangers of unclear motives.
  - skjksjgskjb 3y ago
    please dont draw an equivalence between the ussr and nazi germany. it is incredibly problematic.
Hydraulix989 3y ago
What is going on with the DNS name resolution here? Can somebody please share the resolved IP address?
- univerio 3y ago
  It seems to resolve against 1.1.1.1 but not 8.8.8.8. $ dig www.hackingbutlegal.com @1.1.1.1 ... www.hackingbutlegal.com. 1730 IN CNAME target.substack-custom-domains.com. ...
  - ksherlock 3y ago
    It's working now (8.8.8.8) but definitely wasn't earlier. The substack subscribe popover says it was launched 5 hours ago (which seems odd since hn has links from 36 days ago and whois says it was registered 2 years ago) but maybe that's got something to do with it. https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=hackingbutlegal.com https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=hackingbutlegal.com
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      Maybe a substack bug? Otherwise that is pretty shady since HN link records are reliable.
passterby 3y ago
[dead]
anon7331 3y ago
She speaks the truth often, but I never really got how she portrays herself. Not a huge fan... regardless, she should be able to say whatever she wants and use the platform she built.
- em-bee 3y ago
  a year ago she posted a video about her origin story that may give some insights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9vW_MpXTfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9vW_MpXTfs
  - gammarator 3y ago
    It’s a long video but very interesting. Dolly Parton makes an appearance!
    - mrexroad 3y ago
      Yeah, lengthy, but I found it to be a very heartfelt video and I appreciated how open she was in explaining something so personal.
  - suzzer99 3y ago
    This video is incredible. I learned so much from it. Imagine having to pretend you're a boy until you go away to secondary boarding school.
- prawn 3y ago
  Last year on HN, I wondered publicly if it was body dysmorphia and she replied "Yes, it is something like that." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30100041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30100041
  - consumer451 3y ago
    > Last year on HN, I wondered publicly if it was body dysmorphia and she replied "Yes, it is something like that." >> Wu was raised as a boy due to the one-child policy in China at the time. She remembers wanting to look like the beautiful ladies who were mistresses of Hong Kong businessmen. She discovered her own gender and sexual identity when she was a teenager. She identifies as a dee lesbian. Emphasis above is mine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu
tho2i4u324324 3y ago
[flagged]
sadpolishdev 3y ago
[flagged]
jacooper 3y ago
I am honestly surprised it took them this long to act.
jccalhoun 3y ago
I've enjoyed following her on twitter so it is disturbing to see her silenced. However, I'm not sure I follow the thread between her mentioning security flaws in the software in 2019, this most recent report, and her getting in trouble.
whywhywhywhy 3y ago
> despite frequent public suggestions from anonymous cowards suggesting her particular physical form disqualifies her from being one. Weird way to say journalists but ok.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
NelsonMinar 3y ago
See also Peng Shuai 彭帅, a Chinese pro tennis player who disappeared last year after accusing a fairly high ranking politician of sexual assault. Plenty of differences from Naomi Wu's case, to be sure. But some similarities. Particularly in response. For awhile various world sports organizations and players were trying to highlight her predicament but that's mostly dissipated without having much impact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_Shuai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_Shuai https://www.si.com/tennis/2023/03/29/peng-shuai-wta-principle-or-profit-daily-cover https://www.si.com/tennis/2023/03/29/peng-shuai-wta-principl...
- xbar 3y ago
  I do hope Ms. Wu retains a modicum more freedom.
stale2002 3y ago
Oh the irony of this happening to someone like Naomi Wu, given past things that she posts about. People should remember this any time they see an influencer living in China who is highly critical of the west and yet suspiciously silent on issues within China. The answer is, of course, that as soon as one of these influencers cross the line they or their family get threatened with jail time. It makes it difficult to argue with them or engage in good faith on topics of international politics when this is the real reason why they publicity say certain things.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  > People should remember this any time they see an influencer living in China who is highly critical of the west and yet suspiciously silent on issues within China. > The answer is, of course, that as soon as one of these influencers cross the line they or their family get threatened with jail time. Were any of us really ignorant of that? It should be obvious that in China if you are an influencer, you are either pro-CCP (or at least avoid politics completely) or you are simply no longer an influencer. > It makes it difficult to argue with them or engage in good faith on topics of international politics when this is the real reason why they publicity say certain things. Again, I don't think anyone is surprised by this. Why would you expect to have an honest debate with someone subject to rule by an authoritarian regime?
  - stale2002 3y ago
    > Were any of us really ignorant of that? Apparently a lot of people in this thread are, yes. Because a bunch of people are all talking about "nuance" and how it is good to hear from a real perspective of someone living in China. It's not a real perspective, and never was. It is instead one only optimized for saying what needs to be said to not get arrested. It colors everything that she has said or not said, and makes it impossible to take any argument or statement that she says at face value. > Why would you expect to have an honest debate with someone subject to rule by an authoritarian regime? Although this may seem obvious to us, it was never obvious to her fans and her huge social media following. Along with all the people who did get into debates and fights with her online (of which there were many!), who didn't realize that they were not engaging with honest good faith statements. People liked her for the things that she said, taken at face value, and not because of the real truth of the matter which is that all of it was written within the context of a culture of fear of arrest.
Animats 3y ago
People are assuming this is about gender, but it may well be about COVID. Wu refused to go along with China's huge policy shift, from trying hard to contain COVID to giving up. She still takes precautions and has been plugging for UV sterilizers and HEPA filters. The government of China has been hassling people who still want to control COVID spread. It's like "return to office" enforced by the cops. She had a previous visit from "the authorities", and wrote on Twitter, back on June 30th, "I think the "plainclothes cops" who came to visit today and I told to fuck off were fake since they left when I threatened to call the real cops. That said, in the future it would be super helpful if whoever runs things could give me a contact point so if there is a real issue, I don't tell them to fuck off." "Personally, I think my uncensored rants and the fact that I get away with them makes us look really good, but if there are certain areas where things are delicate, I'm open to toning it down. Just ask." (She repeated all that in Mandarin.) "For those of you that are curious- Shenzhen isn't some podunk 4th tier hick town, we have laws- and in my experience they are followed, which is why these two clowns were a whole bundle of red flags. (Yes, they need a warrant and would have had one if they were the real deal)" Meanwhile, her online store is still up.[1] [1] https://cybernightmarket.com/ https://cybernightmarket.com/
- cwkoss 3y ago
  I ordered the Nukit CO2 Controller, and it just arrived today! Super excited to use it to automatically refresh air in my basement office :-). Naomi's tweets taught me that CO2 is a pretty good proxy for human contamination of air, so turning on a fan when CO2 is high is a pretty good mechanism for refreshing air that could contain covid microparticles. Also learned about UVC from her - she's a fantastic educator and I really hope she's OK. Gonna play with it for a few weeks then might order a second to switch a filter in the living room to reduce the risk from having guests in our home.
- aaron695 3y ago
  > Wu refused to go along with China's huge policy shift She was also heavily attacked by people in the West as she also refused to go along with the Wests 'masks don't matter policy' She created Google Docs early on with evidence masks would work contravening the Western governments and the 'trust the science' crowd. Lets not pretend it's just China here, it maybe offtopic to this incident, but at the time you could see it was wearing her down.
ac130kz 3y ago
Another reminder why don't ever invest in China or live there, being silenced like a leashed dog for what you are without even trying to hide behind the laws is totally unacceptable.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
retox 3y ago
Her persona seems to be crafted specifically to trigger every Chinese government red-flag, has the ring of a psychological operation about her.
webkike 3y ago
This is very sad. I was at one point one of those anonymous cowards who criticized Naomi. But as I matured, I realized just how incredible she was, and it deeply saddens me to see that view isn’t shared by the CCP
xbar 3y ago
Being a free-speech-focused hacker in China seems like it would be harder than in the US.
monksy 3y ago
I always take this individual with a grain of salt. I originally supported her as that she was an enthusiast and talking about making things. However, she has a strong tendency to dramatize things and it's very easy to get caught up in her net. Context: She started raking a maker site (I think it was instructables) about quietly dropping Chinese character support. She went a huge tirade that it was racism and it was intentional. I suggested that hey it's probably a dumb product owner/business decisions. Then she starts arguing with me that "she knows tech." She then quote tweets me so she can target her audience against me also manages to call me a mansplaining tech bro. (And blocks me) Nearly everything she produced tried to focus it on getting attention, from 360 youtube videos to emphasis her sexual features, to selling 3d nude scans, overly dramatic videos to increase viewership. On top of that she's snaps any any journalist who doesn't cover her exactly how she wants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu#Vice_article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu#Vice_article
- cwkoss 3y ago
  Here's the thread: https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1329282369690370052 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/132928236969037005... She called it Sinophobic, not racist, which seems fair. In the most charitable light, instructables was apathetic about their Chinese users. I can't imagine how bad their engineering org would have to be for this to be an unintentional change. I'm guessing you're one of deleted replies so we'll never know for sure, but from the tone of this comment I doubt your reply was respectful. (I'm assuming this is her quote tweet of you https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1329361268562509824 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/132936126856250982... - note that mansplaining is your word, not hers. Interesting word to try to put into her mouth.)
  - monksy 3y ago
    Yep that's the one. I deleted my account after the takeover by Musk. That was quite a while ago. You're right, apparently she didn't say mansplaining, at least in that tweet she didn't (not sure about the others I can't see the full statement anymore). But the conversation we had was incredibly insulting to me, she ended up quote tweeting me to amplify her attack, and blocked me. It was super weird to have a disjointed conversation where she doesn't seem to understand prioritization/feature cutting by businesses.. but yet she yells racism/sinophobia.
tibbydudeza 3y ago
It is not like she is going to be sent to a re-education camp but to me it seems there are certain things that are tolerated for now in China - you can look like a fetish doll and be lesbian and make tech videos but criticism of the paramount leader and the party is not on. When the Taiwanese/US conflict eventually comes then it will get way worse and we are going to see things like LGBTQ is a Western evil etc .... She really needs to leave now if she wants to be true to herself.
trialect 3y ago
[flagged]
Canada 3y ago
While I feel sympathy for her having to deal with this tough and unfair situation, this isn't really surprising. Circumventing the great firewall to maintain presence on outside social media is not actually allowed. Just because enforcement isn't consistent doesn't give her a free pass to violate this policy. And this notion of being high profile in western media conferring any kind of protection is just nonsense. CCP policy is total information control and they don't care one bit if anyone is offended by the concept or the actions they take to enforce it.
draw_down 3y ago
[dead]
bArray 3y ago
There is a large LGBT framing in the article on Naomi Wu's situation. I would rather hear from Naomi, it's entirely possible this is about her stance on COVID, Uyghur Muslims or something else entirely. > Despite her primarily Western audience, Wu has consistently encountered unfavorable treatment from Western media, often tinged with misogyny. Notably, a VICE Magazine reporter appeared to consider outing Wu without her consent, potentially jeopardizing her safety by revealing personal information. It was VICE who outed her sexuality, a publication by Sarah Emerson [0]. VICE itself has a massive left-wing bias [1], and doesn't quite fit the 'misogyny' narrative. It's entirely possible they could have got her arrested or killed (she was already living somewhat dangerously) [2]. I hope this article took the time and asked for permission to publish - it's entirely possible that this kind of attention itself could cause significant trouble. [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-profile-shenzhen-maker-scene https://www.vice.com/en/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-... [1] https://www.allsides.com/news-source/vice-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/vice-media-bias [2] https://nextshark.com/naomi-wu-vice-controversy https://nextshark.com/naomi-wu-vice-controversy
- heinternets 3y ago
  Naomi said to the interviewer it was in regards to her previously publicising the Sogou software security vulnerabilities in 2019: "Five days after Tencent (Shenzhen) admits to the IME vulnerability, the Chinese person (in Shenzhen) who originally publicized it suddenly gets dragged in by the cops and forced offline." "NONE of them could read English to see my account does not even make China look bad, it was all Baidu fucking translate and demands why I was talking about Signal and the keyboard"
Zanneth 3y ago
I used to like Naomi, but like a lot of intelligent people online recently, she has caught the politics mind virus and began using her platform to spread even more hate and division. These days I find myself desperately craving an online community that just focuses on building cool projects and learning about new stuff, rather than pointless political debates that have extremely little relevance in anyone’s lives.
- nextaccountic 3y ago
  What hate did she spread?
  - Zanneth 3y ago
    Naomi has taken to an extreme view on COVID, claiming that policies that are any less authoritarian than the (now provably failed) “zero COVID” policy are attempts by the state to purposefully kill elderly and sick people so that survivors can apparently enjoy greater tax revenue. https://x.com/realsexycyborg/status/1647827136416464896?s=46 https://x.com/realsexycyborg/status/1647827136416464896?s=46 This is only one of many examples where she used her platform to stoke the intercultural flamewars between China and the West.
    - nextaccountic 3y ago
      I don't know, in the context of my own country (Brazil) there seems to be some (probably small) amount of intentionality [0] of government officials in measures that are obviously malicious, like rejecting vaccines [1] and other actions that aided the spread of the virus. We shouldn't live in a world where the incentives of government officials coincide with excess deaths of elderly or any other population group. But the trouble with conspiracies is that they ascribe a level of competency that's unrealistic. So it's unlikely there is a government program specifically targeted to kill the elderly, not because governments are above this, but just because this kind of thing can't be made secret for too long (just like this specific remark from some specific government official in Brazil quickly became public). Anyway I didn't find this specific tweet hateful. [0] "Covid deaths improve the bottom line of social security", in Portuguese https://www.estadao.com.br/economia/morte-de-idosos-por-covid-19-melhora-contas-da-previdencia-teria-dito-chefe-da-susep/ https://www.estadao.com.br/economia/morte-de-idosos-por-covi... Google translation: https://www-estadao-com-br.translate.goog/economia/morte-de-idosos-por-covid-19-melhora-contas-da-previdencia-teria-dito-chefe-da-susep/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-estadao-com-br.translate.goog/economia/morte-de-... [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-got-no-response-offers-supply-vaccine-brazil-last-year-exec-says-2021-05-13/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

449 points by dsr_ 3y ago

anigbrowl 3y ago

I'm appalled that I'm only finding out about this now.

consumer451 3y ago
Am I being paranoid in thinking that Musk’s exposure in China & disdain for the LGBTQ community could lead him to lower the reach of tweets related to this issue?
- krapp 3y ago
  No. At this point Twitter (I refuse to call it "X" and I will die on this hill) is little more than Elon's personal agitprop and trolling platform, and he would absolutely be petty enough to pull something like that.
  - FreshStart 3y ago
    ExTwitter
    - em-bee 3y ago
      i keep getting that urge to click the X to close the window.
      - rokkitmensch 3y ago
        I have to stop myself from thumbing or clicking the X. My brain sees it as something that got past the ad filter and needs closing. A hilarious experience in self-observation loops.
  - stuaxo 3y ago
    Xitter works, since you can pronounce the X as "sh"
  - sohex 3y ago
    Personally I’m a fan of ‘the platform/network/website formerly known as Twitter’.
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  This was explicitly one of the things people were worried about when he bought Twitter. If you didn't notice this your personal filter bubble is giving you ideological blind spots.
  - devnullbrain 3y ago
    Twitter now bravely, aggressively exposes me to both left-wing and right-wing politics [1] [1] for a country I don't live in
    - tibbydudeza 3y ago
      Yes when I could still view tweets without a login I got some shit about some villian called Dark Brandon and a deranged woman using steroids called Margory not from Game Of Thrones. WTF.
  - astrange 3y ago
    This assumes filter bubble theory is true, which it isn't, because being exposed to things outside your bubble mainly makes you resent them even more because they're annoying.
- tiffanyg 3y ago
  Plausible. However, I would say that a related, more general, and more disturbing hypothesis (in the "big picture") is more plausible: Musk is all-in with China, Saudi Arabia, etc. For various reasons - access to markets, financing, etc. Some of those who left Twitter shortly after the bad deal he made was force-consummated, suggested that it might be far less safe for, say, Saudi dissidents to use the platform than it was prior to his takeover (and, there were "incidents" and indications of incidents before he took over, already). I'd suggest that he has some general directive(s) in place for what to do about certain kinds of potentially sensitive tweets. His claims about "free speech absolutism" are interesting, in the use of the word absolute (think "L'État, c'est moi") and subsequent statements about "following the law" and the resultant behavior. And, of course, his little trolincel fans are the perfect little army of toadies for these kinds of totalitarian governments... just waiting to denounce any "enemies of the people" (i.e., flag tweets so they may be passed on to House of Saud, CPC [CCP], etc.). Edit: It's easy to see that this makes all of the craziness we've witnessed with Twitter, since the takeover, look less crazy. With this as a backdrop. That is: the bad deal is already done, but, some of the rationale and goals can still be salvaged. So, come in, get rid of anyone with a conscience, more experienced, more independent. Have NDAs in place (par for the course already, at "MuskInc", good cover), and a set of foreign indentured servants. The environment is perfectly transformed to extract THIS kind of value from the whole clusterfck. Plus, Elon gets to build his mythos further in multiple ways, including fostering further disgust in "his enemies". And, if / when it all crashes down, well, at least we disrupted all those communities, independent journalist-types, etc.
  - generalizations 3y ago
    Gotta say, this would sound like a conspiracy theory if there were different players involved. That being said, it sounds plausible.
- Shekelphile 3y ago
  They started doing that day one.
- altairprime 3y ago
  Not paranoid, but other non-exclusive factors are also in play and much more certain; e.g. “American influencers and press won’t talk about her plight because she’s an intelligent, non-white woman with large breasts and without shame about her body”.
- 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
  Her account is fine. She has to stop tweeting. You guys need to get a grip. As if the Chinese government needs Musks help.
  - consumer451 3y ago
    I was thinking tweets about her or CCP oppression in general, not necessarily from her. There is plenty of proof out there showing that Musk has his fingers on the scales. Citations can be provided upon request.
    - 2muchcoffeeman 3y ago
      Just search for "Naomi Wu" on Twitter. There's plenty of people Tweeting about how she was silenced. You can find all sorts of China critical tweets. Uyghurs, Peng Shui. Take your pick.
      - consumer451 3y ago
        Since I don't have an account, I am no longer allowed to search. In any case, this does not at all indicate if the reach of those tweets was restricted or not.
- gedy 3y ago
  > Musk’s ... disdain for the LGBTQ community I'm not a Musk fan, but what are you referring to?
  - jszymborski 3y ago
    Musk is a transphobe. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-twitter-transgender-hate-speech-b2351923.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/elon-musk-...
    - rippityrip 3y ago
      [flagged]
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  I can't say, but I have been following Wu for a year or more and we interacted maybe once a month. Looking back through the timeline the last tweet of hers that I remember seeing was from late June. I rarely follow new people but don't easily notice when someone falls out of my feed, and Wu would tweet only once or twice a week normally.
crumpled 3y ago
I'm appalled that it was only written about just now. I looked for stories for weeks after the ominous tweet. It was depressing to think that it wasn't considered important.

yardie 3y ago

For context her last Tweet: "Ok for those of you that haven't figured it out I got my wings clipped and they weren't gentle about it- so there's not going to be much posting on social media anymore and only on very specific subjects. I can leave but Kaidi can't so we're just going to follow the new rules and that's that. Nothing personal if I don't like and reply like I used to. I'll be focusing on the store and the occasional video. Thanks for understanding, it was fun while it lasted."

0cVlTeIATBs 3y ago
From my reading it sounds like her girlfriend Kaidi is under house arrest, and potentially both of them under surveillance. I'm guessing frequent checkins with the local police. Hope I'm not misinterpreting. Article also notes her historic calling out of potential keyboard app keystroke siphoning threats in China could be related. Sogou input recently found to transmit every keystroke by Citizen Lab.
- ronyclau 3y ago
  I don't think she meant her girlfriend is under house arrest (though possibly too), I guess she meant she can leave the country but her girlfriend can't. Uyghur are systematically suppressed and discriminated in China. It's very hard for them to get even a passport, let alone be allowed to leave the country legally. Given the situation of Naomi now, it's practically impossible for Kaidi to leave China.

stefan_ 3y ago

Getting some ciphersuite error so: https://archive.ph/a6tR8 https://archive.ph/a6tR8

yoshamano 3y ago
And I'm getting stuck in an endless captcha loop trying to load the archive.ph site. C'est la vie.

neverrroot 3y ago

SSL error, anyone else? Edit: it works now

ryandrake 3y ago

Strange domain. I was not able to resolve the web site's (hackingbutlegal.com) IP address using Google's DNS, OpenDNS, or my ISP's default resolver. Cloudflare's DNS (1.1.1.1) resolves it to an IP address.

justinclift 3y ago
Seems ok here (Sydney, Australia) at present, using Google's DNS (8.8.8.8).

lkramer 3y ago

This is incredibly sad and disturbing, not least because there have been hardly a murmur about this in the west.... I really hope all the best for her and her partner. I hope the tide will turn one day and Chinese people will be allowed to speak their mind again.

rchaud 3y ago

> The omission of her predicament by the media isn't just an oversight—it's a signal suggesting that a significant portion of western media may be increasingly compromised by Beijing's influence, finding themselves unable to criticize foreign policy, lest they rile the tiger and negatively impact their business. Compromised because they didn't provide coverage of a Youtuber in China getting silenced? You make sound as if western media have been dead silent on Uyghur matters, which they have not. As for business interests, I would imagine foreign newspapers aren't carrying much hope of finally cracking the Chinese market.

stavros 3y ago
Well, we got no coverage on Wu getting deplatformed, and a bit of coverage on Uyghur matters. Instead, we should have gotten a bit of coverage on the former, and a lot of coverage on the latter.
- tbrownaw 3y ago
  Isn't it fairly common to be not especially interested in what those other people over there are doing amongst themselves - even if it's genocide or censuring dissidents or whatever - and to care a lot more about important local news like which faction gets to impose their values on the public school curriculum and what color suit the president wore left week?
  - stavros 3y ago
    Yes it is, but, as you say, genocide could probably get airtime instead of the president's suit.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Perhaps. When I submitted a blurb about Naomi getting arrested it got flagged right quick despite the ample evidence that she was not trying to keep quiet about it in earnest. Make of that what you will. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20462845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20462845

4v0v 3y ago

Censorship from one side or the other is never the answer.

barry-cotter 3y ago
No, censorship can totally be the answer to getting people to stop saying things you don’t want them to say if you don’t have any commitment to free speech. See how Tucker Max or Milo Yiannopolous are no longer culturally relevant. Censorship works.
- throwaway29812 3y ago
  I would argue it's more about eliminating bad faith actors from an otherwise healthy discussion. If you aren't arguing to make a point, just to get a reaction, you have no right to a platform.
- flangola7 3y ago
  If I can find it again there's a really great video explaining how, to have free speech, you must restrict some speech. Because bad actors use speech and claims om they are "defending free speech!" in bad faith as a weapon to further their ends, and once they're in a position of power will shameless drop the pretenses and restrict any speech that doesn't entrench their position.
  - beefpies 3y ago
    Here's a video on the subject: Debate and Deplatforming https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFAYN6oWyIo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFAYN6oWyIo And it's sequel: Why Deplatforming Works (And Why it Doesn't) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r5C-G0VrjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r5C-G0VrjI
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Known as the paradox of tolerance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

NathanKP 3y ago

I've been following Naomi Wu on Twitter for years, but I didn't notice that July tweet until reading this post. The reason: I'm barely on Twitter/X anymore because its so bad now, and even when I'm on Twitter/X I don't see stuff I wanted to see because their algorithm is trash now and just likes to highlight conspiracy theories and the latest cringe content from Elon Musk Anyway, I'm super sad to see Naomi Wu so deplatformed, and even sadder that I didn't even notice thanks to how effectively Elon fucked up Twitter. She's not the only one either. So many great voices are lost, and I wonder how many others I missed and haven't noticed yet.

er4hn 3y ago
I agree, this is tragic. I always enjoyed her spicy takes on the west, especially her pride in China. They were fierce, but they weren't mindlessly nationalist. She'd take the time to explain how and why people in China felt and she had an articulate pride in her country. Always meant a lot to be able to learn someone elses' viewpoint.

xer0x 3y ago

Thank you for sharing this troubling news.

dayvid 3y ago

I really appreciated her POV on China. Usually it's westerners commenting on events in China. Very rare to have someone born and raised in China who comments on issues openly to her extent in English able to articulate American and Chinese POVs on an issue. She's also living an authentic cyperpunk hacker lifestyle. Hope the best for her and her partner.

yardie 3y ago

My interpretation is since her sexuality was outed by a Western journalist she has had an antagonistic relationship with them. I've replied and responded to some of her Tweets and she definitely has her own identity that doesn't line up with what Western users think. I think they wanted a freedom fighter based in China to criticize the CCP and she was not taking the bait. What I had not anticipated was her needing the exposure to Western media to keep her safe. I naively assumed it was the opposite. Like if she didn't stand to high or make much noise it would be water under the bridge. Once the politburo realized the Westerners weren't that interested in her they pounced. Wherever she is I hope she's safe.

passterby 3y ago
[dead]
dayvid 3y ago
She equally called out men being sexist as well as women who didn't like the idea of a female in STEM with a bimbo aesthetic.
paleface 3y ago
> […] since her sexuality was outed by a Western journalist […] South Korean journalist, self declared [supposed] “feminist”, and anti white racist - Sarah Jeong - working for Western media outlet Vice. I hope she’s satisfied with her handiwork!…
- reducesuffering 3y ago
  You’re refuting her being a Western journalist because of her ethnicity? She’s been in the US since she was 3 years old, raised Southern Baptist, attended Ivies, and is a US citizen…
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    Paleface is citing her as an example of such a western journalist...

TazeTSchnitzel 3y ago

It's depressing how many Americans and Europeans seem utterly allergic to any kind of nuanced discussion or deeper understanding of China. I think the same applies to the former USSR. I'm not sure why this is.

saagarjha 3y ago
Nuance takes time and effort, of course.
- catchnear4321 3y ago
  not to mention interest. investments of either time or effort, let alone both, are far less likely without that.
devnullbrain 3y ago
A language and internet barrier makes it difficult to find unbiased news and views. Most of us have no primary sources, everything is relayed to us by: - People in China who choose or are allowed to bypass the GFW - People who decided to leave China, or whose families decided to leave - People who decided to learn Chinese There can be a political motivation for all three of these.
rcoveson 3y ago
Why do you think it's easy for most to have nuanced, dispassionate discussions about the ancient Assyrians but not the Nazis? Spacial/temporal/ideological proximity. We're not likely to become anything like the former, but we fear ourselves (or at least our leadership) becoming more like the latter. Obviously it would be ideal to learn from the good aspects of even the most evil totalitarian regimes, but in practice it's easier to wrap the whole nationalist/collectivist/communist idea-space up in a bundle and throw it out as one, at least in conversations with strangers of unclear motives.
- skjksjgskjb 3y ago
  please dont draw an equivalence between the ussr and nazi germany. it is incredibly problematic.

Hydraulix989 3y ago

What is going on with the DNS name resolution here? Can somebody please share the resolved IP address?

univerio 3y ago
It seems to resolve against 1.1.1.1 but not 8.8.8.8. $ dig www.hackingbutlegal.com @1.1.1.1 ... www.hackingbutlegal.com. 1730 IN CNAME target.substack-custom-domains.com. ...
- ksherlock 3y ago
  It's working now (8.8.8.8) but definitely wasn't earlier. The substack subscribe popover says it was launched 5 hours ago (which seems odd since hn has links from 36 days ago and whois says it was registered 2 years ago) but maybe that's got something to do with it. https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=hackingbutlegal.com https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=hackingbutlegal.com
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Maybe a substack bug? Otherwise that is pretty shady since HN link records are reliable.

passterby 3y ago

[dead]

anon7331 3y ago

She speaks the truth often, but I never really got how she portrays herself. Not a huge fan... regardless, she should be able to say whatever she wants and use the platform she built.

em-bee 3y ago
a year ago she posted a video about her origin story that may give some insights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9vW_MpXTfs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9vW_MpXTfs
- gammarator 3y ago
  It’s a long video but very interesting. Dolly Parton makes an appearance!
  - mrexroad 3y ago
    Yeah, lengthy, but I found it to be a very heartfelt video and I appreciated how open she was in explaining something so personal.
- suzzer99 3y ago
  This video is incredible. I learned so much from it. Imagine having to pretend you're a boy until you go away to secondary boarding school.
prawn 3y ago
Last year on HN, I wondered publicly if it was body dysmorphia and she replied "Yes, it is something like that." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30100041 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30100041
- consumer451 3y ago
  > Last year on HN, I wondered publicly if it was body dysmorphia and she replied "Yes, it is something like that." >> Wu was raised as a boy due to the one-child policy in China at the time. She remembers wanting to look like the beautiful ladies who were mistresses of Hong Kong businessmen. She discovered her own gender and sexual identity when she was a teenager. She identifies as a dee lesbian. Emphasis above is mine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu

tho2i4u324324 3y ago

[flagged]

sadpolishdev 3y ago

[flagged]

jacooper 3y ago

I am honestly surprised it took them this long to act.

jccalhoun 3y ago

I've enjoyed following her on twitter so it is disturbing to see her silenced. However, I'm not sure I follow the thread between her mentioning security flaws in the software in 2019, this most recent report, and her getting in trouble.

whywhywhywhy 3y ago

> despite frequent public suggestions from anonymous cowards suggesting her particular physical form disqualifies her from being one. Weird way to say journalists but ok.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

NelsonMinar 3y ago

See also Peng Shuai 彭帅, a Chinese pro tennis player who disappeared last year after accusing a fairly high ranking politician of sexual assault. Plenty of differences from Naomi Wu's case, to be sure. But some similarities. Particularly in response. For awhile various world sports organizations and players were trying to highlight her predicament but that's mostly dissipated without having much impact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_Shuai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_Shuai https://www.si.com/tennis/2023/03/29/peng-shuai-wta-principle-or-profit-daily-cover https://www.si.com/tennis/2023/03/29/peng-shuai-wta-principl...

xbar 3y ago
I do hope Ms. Wu retains a modicum more freedom.

stale2002 3y ago

Oh the irony of this happening to someone like Naomi Wu, given past things that she posts about. People should remember this any time they see an influencer living in China who is highly critical of the west and yet suspiciously silent on issues within China. The answer is, of course, that as soon as one of these influencers cross the line they or their family get threatened with jail time. It makes it difficult to argue with them or engage in good faith on topics of international politics when this is the real reason why they publicity say certain things.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
> People should remember this any time they see an influencer living in China who is highly critical of the west and yet suspiciously silent on issues within China. > The answer is, of course, that as soon as one of these influencers cross the line they or their family get threatened with jail time. Were any of us really ignorant of that? It should be obvious that in China if you are an influencer, you are either pro-CCP (or at least avoid politics completely) or you are simply no longer an influencer. > It makes it difficult to argue with them or engage in good faith on topics of international politics when this is the real reason why they publicity say certain things. Again, I don't think anyone is surprised by this. Why would you expect to have an honest debate with someone subject to rule by an authoritarian regime?
- stale2002 3y ago
  > Were any of us really ignorant of that? Apparently a lot of people in this thread are, yes. Because a bunch of people are all talking about "nuance" and how it is good to hear from a real perspective of someone living in China. It's not a real perspective, and never was. It is instead one only optimized for saying what needs to be said to not get arrested. It colors everything that she has said or not said, and makes it impossible to take any argument or statement that she says at face value. > Why would you expect to have an honest debate with someone subject to rule by an authoritarian regime? Although this may seem obvious to us, it was never obvious to her fans and her huge social media following. Along with all the people who did get into debates and fights with her online (of which there were many!), who didn't realize that they were not engaging with honest good faith statements. People liked her for the things that she said, taken at face value, and not because of the real truth of the matter which is that all of it was written within the context of a culture of fear of arrest.

Animats 3y ago

People are assuming this is about gender, but it may well be about COVID. Wu refused to go along with China's huge policy shift, from trying hard to contain COVID to giving up. She still takes precautions and has been plugging for UV sterilizers and HEPA filters. The government of China has been hassling people who still want to control COVID spread. It's like "return to office" enforced by the cops. She had a previous visit from "the authorities", and wrote on Twitter, back on June 30th, "I think the "plainclothes cops" who came to visit today and I told to fuck off were fake since they left when I threatened to call the real cops. That said, in the future it would be super helpful if whoever runs things could give me a contact point so if there is a real issue, I don't tell them to fuck off." "Personally, I think my uncensored rants and the fact that I get away with them makes us look really good, but if there are certain areas where things are delicate, I'm open to toning it down. Just ask." (She repeated all that in Mandarin.) "For those of you that are curious- Shenzhen isn't some podunk 4th tier hick town, we have laws- and in my experience they are followed, which is why these two clowns were a whole bundle of red flags. (Yes, they need a warrant and would have had one if they were the real deal)" Meanwhile, her online store is still up.[1] [1] https://cybernightmarket.com/ https://cybernightmarket.com/

cwkoss 3y ago
I ordered the Nukit CO2 Controller, and it just arrived today! Super excited to use it to automatically refresh air in my basement office :-). Naomi's tweets taught me that CO2 is a pretty good proxy for human contamination of air, so turning on a fan when CO2 is high is a pretty good mechanism for refreshing air that could contain covid microparticles. Also learned about UVC from her - she's a fantastic educator and I really hope she's OK. Gonna play with it for a few weeks then might order a second to switch a filter in the living room to reduce the risk from having guests in our home.
aaron695 3y ago
> Wu refused to go along with China's huge policy shift She was also heavily attacked by people in the West as she also refused to go along with the Wests 'masks don't matter policy' She created Google Docs early on with evidence masks would work contravening the Western governments and the 'trust the science' crowd. Lets not pretend it's just China here, it maybe offtopic to this incident, but at the time you could see it was wearing her down.

ac130kz 3y ago

Another reminder why don't ever invest in China or live there, being silenced like a leashed dog for what you are without even trying to hide behind the laws is totally unacceptable.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

retox 3y ago

Her persona seems to be crafted specifically to trigger every Chinese government red-flag, has the ring of a psychological operation about her.

webkike 3y ago

This is very sad. I was at one point one of those anonymous cowards who criticized Naomi. But as I matured, I realized just how incredible she was, and it deeply saddens me to see that view isn’t shared by the CCP

xbar 3y ago

Being a free-speech-focused hacker in China seems like it would be harder than in the US.

monksy 3y ago

I always take this individual with a grain of salt. I originally supported her as that she was an enthusiast and talking about making things. However, she has a strong tendency to dramatize things and it's very easy to get caught up in her net. Context: She started raking a maker site (I think it was instructables) about quietly dropping Chinese character support. She went a huge tirade that it was racism and it was intentional. I suggested that hey it's probably a dumb product owner/business decisions. Then she starts arguing with me that "she knows tech." She then quote tweets me so she can target her audience against me also manages to call me a mansplaining tech bro. (And blocks me) Nearly everything she produced tried to focus it on getting attention, from 360 youtube videos to emphasis her sexual features, to selling 3d nude scans, overly dramatic videos to increase viewership. On top of that she's snaps any any journalist who doesn't cover her exactly how she wants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu#Vice_article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Wu#Vice_article

cwkoss 3y ago
Here's the thread: https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1329282369690370052 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/132928236969037005... She called it Sinophobic, not racist, which seems fair. In the most charitable light, instructables was apathetic about their Chinese users. I can't imagine how bad their engineering org would have to be for this to be an unintentional change. I'm guessing you're one of deleted replies so we'll never know for sure, but from the tone of this comment I doubt your reply was respectful. (I'm assuming this is her quote tweet of you https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/1329361268562509824 https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/132936126856250982... - note that mansplaining is your word, not hers. Interesting word to try to put into her mouth.)
- monksy 3y ago
  Yep that's the one. I deleted my account after the takeover by Musk. That was quite a while ago. You're right, apparently she didn't say mansplaining, at least in that tweet she didn't (not sure about the others I can't see the full statement anymore). But the conversation we had was incredibly insulting to me, she ended up quote tweeting me to amplify her attack, and blocked me. It was super weird to have a disjointed conversation where she doesn't seem to understand prioritization/feature cutting by businesses.. but yet she yells racism/sinophobia.

tibbydudeza 3y ago

It is not like she is going to be sent to a re-education camp but to me it seems there are certain things that are tolerated for now in China - you can look like a fetish doll and be lesbian and make tech videos but criticism of the paramount leader and the party is not on. When the Taiwanese/US conflict eventually comes then it will get way worse and we are going to see things like LGBTQ is a Western evil etc .... She really needs to leave now if she wants to be true to herself.

trialect 3y ago

[flagged]

Canada 3y ago

While I feel sympathy for her having to deal with this tough and unfair situation, this isn't really surprising. Circumventing the great firewall to maintain presence on outside social media is not actually allowed. Just because enforcement isn't consistent doesn't give her a free pass to violate this policy. And this notion of being high profile in western media conferring any kind of protection is just nonsense. CCP policy is total information control and they don't care one bit if anyone is offended by the concept or the actions they take to enforce it.

draw_down 3y ago

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bArray 3y ago

There is a large LGBT framing in the article on Naomi Wu's situation. I would rather hear from Naomi, it's entirely possible this is about her stance on COVID, Uyghur Muslims or something else entirely. > Despite her primarily Western audience, Wu has consistently encountered unfavorable treatment from Western media, often tinged with misogyny. Notably, a VICE Magazine reporter appeared to consider outing Wu without her consent, potentially jeopardizing her safety by revealing personal information. It was VICE who outed her sexuality, a publication by Sarah Emerson [0]. VICE itself has a massive left-wing bias [1], and doesn't quite fit the 'misogyny' narrative. It's entirely possible they could have got her arrested or killed (she was already living somewhat dangerously) [2]. I hope this article took the time and asked for permission to publish - it's entirely possible that this kind of attention itself could cause significant trouble. [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-profile-shenzhen-maker-scene https://www.vice.com/en/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-... [1] https://www.allsides.com/news-source/vice-media-bias https://www.allsides.com/news-source/vice-media-bias [2] https://nextshark.com/naomi-wu-vice-controversy https://nextshark.com/naomi-wu-vice-controversy

heinternets 3y ago
Naomi said to the interviewer it was in regards to her previously publicising the Sogou software security vulnerabilities in 2019: "Five days after Tencent (Shenzhen) admits to the IME vulnerability, the Chinese person (in Shenzhen) who originally publicized it suddenly gets dragged in by the cops and forced offline." "NONE of them could read English to see my account does not even make China look bad, it was all Baidu fucking translate and demands why I was talking about Signal and the keyboard"

Zanneth 3y ago

I used to like Naomi, but like a lot of intelligent people online recently, she has caught the politics mind virus and began using her platform to spread even more hate and division. These days I find myself desperately craving an online community that just focuses on building cool projects and learning about new stuff, rather than pointless political debates that have extremely little relevance in anyone’s lives.

nextaccountic 3y ago
What hate did she spread?
- Zanneth 3y ago
  Naomi has taken to an extreme view on COVID, claiming that policies that are any less authoritarian than the (now provably failed) “zero COVID” policy are attempts by the state to purposefully kill elderly and sick people so that survivors can apparently enjoy greater tax revenue. https://x.com/realsexycyborg/status/1647827136416464896?s=46 https://x.com/realsexycyborg/status/1647827136416464896?s=46 This is only one of many examples where she used her platform to stoke the intercultural flamewars between China and the West.
  - nextaccountic 3y ago
    I don't know, in the context of my own country (Brazil) there seems to be some (probably small) amount of intentionality [0] of government officials in measures that are obviously malicious, like rejecting vaccines [1] and other actions that aided the spread of the virus. We shouldn't live in a world where the incentives of government officials coincide with excess deaths of elderly or any other population group. But the trouble with conspiracies is that they ascribe a level of competency that's unrealistic. So it's unlikely there is a government program specifically targeted to kill the elderly, not because governments are above this, but just because this kind of thing can't be made secret for too long (just like this specific remark from some specific government official in Brazil quickly became public). Anyway I didn't find this specific tweet hateful. [0] "Covid deaths improve the bottom line of social security", in Portuguese https://www.estadao.com.br/economia/morte-de-idosos-por-covid-19-melhora-contas-da-previdencia-teria-dito-chefe-da-susep/ https://www.estadao.com.br/economia/morte-de-idosos-por-covi... Google translation: https://www-estadao-com-br.translate.goog/economia/morte-de-idosos-por-covid-19-melhora-contas-da-previdencia-teria-dito-chefe-da-susep/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-estadao-com-br.translate.goog/economia/morte-de-... [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-got-no-response-offers-supply-vaccine-brazil-last-year-exec-says-2021-05-13/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...