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If you travel to China, be aware of an exit ban
- warning26 3y agoThe US State Department also warns about this: > "Reconsider travel to Mainland China due to the arbitrary enforcement of local laws, including in relation to exit bans, and the risk of wrongful detentions." https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/china-travel-advisory.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/...
- toomuchtodo 3y agoCan anyone speak to the state department’s ability to repatriate you if China enforces an exit ban while in country?
- chii 3y agothe state department is a diplomatic apparatus, rather than an enforcement apparatus. They will have to declare war, or some other kind of sanctions, and hope that the country under sanction will comply. I doubt that the US will do it for small numbers of citizens, esp. after these travel advisories given. These travel advisories are essentially saying that you're on your own if you get fucked by china, so don't visit there.
- dragonwriter 3y ago> Can anyone speak to the state department’s ability to repatriate you if China enforces an exit ban while in country? The state department has essentially no such general capability beyond negotiation, and in the case of China, specifically, in practice the US government as a whole has little beyond that, too. (They might be able to, if interested, come up with an ad hoc and probably high-risk workaround outside of diplomatic channels if sufficiently motivated and the right confluence of other factors, but I wouldn’t rely on it.)
- c_o_n_v_e_x 3y agoThe US does not have a sterling reputation for getting their people out of sticky situations in foreign countries... Oh but when they do, they expect to be paid for it. One would have thought that continuing to pay tax to the motherland despite living overseas would help cover the cost of one's evacuation, but I guess not.
- Vecr 3y agoThe advisory they give is the help you are getting from them. It's not like they can send the FBI Hostage Rescue Team or Delta Force to China anyway, even if they wanted to. They might try to get you out in special situations, for example if a friendly country had terrorists taking hostages confined to a small area or if a small and/or weak country tried something and there was no or only a weak travel advisory before the incident, but even then I would not count on it.
- refurb 3y agoThe US has no legal authority within China, or any other country, which is why the State Dept website says "You must follow the local laws of the country you visit". It's pretty much a negotiation. The State Dept can try back channels if they think you've been unfairly denied an exit visa, but other than than, there is nothing they can do.
- omoikane 3y agoRelated, there was a recent thread that mapped travel advisories for different countries: https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/15kh611/travel_advisory_in_different_countries/ https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/15kh611/travel_adv...
- willprice89 3y ago> In the old days, we would direct people to drive to Vietnam in the trunk of a car, and it worked. Pretty incredible that a law firm would actually recommend this strategy!
- NicoJuicy 3y agoI guess it's more related to the fair process inside of China Or at least, the lack of it
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoNote that the linked webpage is just a mess of text that was clearly created as SEO-focused advertising for this law firm. It is not any kind of serious reference on the China exit bans phenomenon.
- zhdc1 3y ago> Note that the linked webpage… It is. That said, the website is legitimate. They’ve put out a lot of very good content, for years, albeit with a pessimistic slant. The firm founder is also active on Twitter.
- LeoNatan25 3y agoDon't travel to China.
- ecshafer 3y agoDo travel to China, its quite nice.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoIs that worth risking your freedom for?
- ecshafer 3y agoI don't think my freedom is at risk when I go there honestly. There are probably people in some fields or businesses that do have some risk. But I think the fears are overblown.
- canucker2016 3y agoAs long as you or any relation/acquaintance/company/nation you belong to do not offend China, you're cool. Case in point: the two Michaels from Canada detained 'suddenly' after a Huawei executive was detained in Canada in relation to a US govt case: https://globalnews.ca/news/8224094/canada-china-two-michaels-tension-detention/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8224094/canada-china-two-michaels... Though a third Canadian had his conviction retried to a worse sentence - death.
- modzu 3y agofor context, a million canadians visit china every year
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- owenmarshall 3y agoI’m very curious if exit bans are typically targeted towards Chinese nationals, dual-nationals, or foreigners.
- goodbyesf 3y agoSpies or people tied to spies. When canada arrested or kidnapped the chinese huawei executive a few years ago on US orders, the chinese government held canadian spies in return. Tit for tat. Of course we whine about it endlessly and push propagnada to make the chinese look like the bad guys.
- richbell 3y ago> the chinese government held canadian spies in return So they claimed; I don't think this was ever substantiated.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoIt is really easy to break national security laws in China. Just taking a picture at the front of zhongnanhai in Beijing is technically a violation, or a million other places you would never guess were military installations. It isn't like San Diego where even Chinese tourists can take pictures of American military ships in port. (note: the national security laws are considered state secrets under the same national security laws, so even publishing these laws is a violation, so you know...) But these laws are rarely enforced, except when they need someone for an example.
- defrost 3y agoSpy accusations are common but rarely have merit. When Australian politicians said some firm things about China there was a spate of Australian reporters of Chinese origin being detained, this spread to Australian reporters in general. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-31/australian-detained-in-china-television-anchor-cheng-lei/12615362 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-31/australian-detained-i... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-08/bill-birtles-mike-smith-evacuated-china-safety-concerns/12638786 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-08/bill-birtles-mike-smi...
- novolunt 3y ago[flagged]
- qwertyuiop_ 3y agoDo Tim Apple’s people flying over there get special CCP badges ?
- covidiancancer 3y ago[dead]
- ultrameow 3y agoChinese culture, history, language, etc. are so interesting but stuff like this is pretty freaky.
- covidiancancer 3y ago[dead]
- ws169144 3y ago[flagged]
- richbell 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- puppymaster 3y agosure start your own thread. Now let's talk about China's exit ban.
- SantalBlush 3y agoMaybe we can rephrase this in a more useful way: >This sort of government overreach is unfortunate, and is not specific to China. For example, the US unreasonably suppresses Chinese companies, like Huawei, ZTE, DJI, etc., and India groundlessly seizes private corporate assets. Something like that makes it more relevant to the discussion, I think. Not commenting on the validity of any of the statements, just trying to be charitable.
- iudqnolq 3y agoThis is a bit much. > This person was held hostage for five days in a high-end U.S. hotel room in Qingdao and had to be led out of that room and driven to Beijing by what was essentially a swat team we organized to get her out. She was able to fly out of China because she was not subject to an exit ban. I write about this because it makes for a great story and because it highlights how exit bans and hostage taking can overlap
- moomoo11 3y agoI’ll be honest. As an American (originally from 3rd world country) I have zero intention of traveling internationally. Why would I? I live in the best country in the world. For tech, startups, lifestyle, food (i can eat any cuisine from around the world and access to amazing restaurants), hiking, etc. The last place I'd visit is some authoritarian place.
- usmannk 3y agoIf someone who lived in Manhattan said this about traveling domestically, it would sound insane right? Your comment comes off the same way
- gehwartzen 3y agoyour doing yourself a disservice judging the US the best country in the world without at least seeing for yourself.
- ultrameow 3y agoI haven't been to every place in the world, but I've been to several outside of the US, and they've been great without exception. I think you should give it a try.
- kanbara 3y agothis sort of attitude is one of the reasons people look at america with disdain. the rest of the world, yes even china, yes even somalia, have culture, history, and knowledge to offer. it’s never appropriate to think one cannot learn from others or try new experiences
- nimbius 3y agoLow quality "china scary" article that basically reiterates something that is true in virtually all five eyes and shengen countries. Violate the law and you can be held for criminal prosecution.
- jamesaurichs 3y ago[flagged]
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoPeople staring at me 24/7 sounds really weird but I dunno about torture
- dragonwriter 3y ago> since China is a dictatorship now. When was China not a dictatorship? Isn’t the issue now that it has become something less of a benevolent dictatorship with regard to foreign travelers recently?
- waithuh 3y agoTo be fair, any U.S government agency can very well torture you as well, as they can do an oopsie and send you over to somewhere middle in the woods in Poland. The term whataboutism is also not exactly stable when it comes to politics because nobody plays fairly.
- theonething 3y agoI don't have proof, but I'm willing to bet that it happens a lot more in China than here in the US.
- ProjectArcturis 3y ago>Legal experts say virtually any party to a civil dispute in China involving a foreign national can ask local police to add their opponent’s name to a national database of exit bans that police check at every airport, railway station and other border crossing... That is certainly not how things are in most Western countries.
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- autopilot23 3y agoThis 'article' is a joke, just baseless fearmongering.
- rado 3y agoBad things happen everywhere. I've visited a number of times and stayed in multiple cities and it's great. One of the best things is the contrast between fear mongering abroad and the chill situation on the streets. People go out of their way to help you, even authorities bend the rules a little when needed. Iran is even friendlier. Of course, a traveller should always be alert, respectful and stay away from politics.
- _lvbh 3y agoI lived in China for a few years and only recently left. No exit bans for foreigners unless you commit a crime or owe debt there. It’s a completely different story for Chinese nationals. Many are barred from exiting the country to the point where many Malaysian travel agencies (small/family owned ones) have gone bankrupt (due to outsized reliance on Chinese customers)
- SanjayMehta 3y agoJulian Assange says hello.