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Marijuana addiction: those struggling often face skepticism

• imadethis 3y ago
  If you know any ER docs/nurses/techs, ask them about cannabinoid hyperemesis and the denial that patients are in around their level of addiction.
  • genocidicbunny 3y ago
    I'm surprised this isn't mentioned more, because it kind of blows away the argument that 'weed isn't physically addictive'. It absolutely can be.
• haswell 3y ago
  One major issue has been over-emphasis on the fact that it’s not physically addictive in the ways that some drugs are. I think this leads to the mistaken belief that it’s not habit forming, and that there are no side effects of stopping after extended use. While it’s not “withdrawal” in the traditional sense, it can be quite unpleasant. And the thing that sounds most helpful in that moment is…smoking a bowl. What comes next is a lot of emotion management. Doable. Hard. Help is good. I think legalization was good. Cannabis has mostly been a good thing in my life. At times, it hasn’t been. I worry about the crazy high THC strains everywhere now, and the misperception that these are completely harmless plants. I still partake and find it worthwhile for creative endeavors, but had to make drastic changes to my usage habits with a promise to quit permanently if I found myself back in a similar cycle. Enjoy responsibly.
  • pclmulqdq 3y ago
    A lot of addiction-related messaging has definitely not focused on the mental component of addiction. People who use opiates medically are so much less likely to get addicted than recreational users that I would assume that it's actually the main component of an addiction, while the physical symptoms are less impactful.
• bratgpttamer 3y ago
  I think a big thing that's overlooked is the difference between psychological and physiological dependency, as well as the stigma or popular idea of addiction. Weed doesn't feel addictive in the classic sense, especially in comparison to things that are much more addictive, like nicotine and alcohol. I used to live basically next door to a dispensary, and would smoke multiple times a day. If I didn't smoke, I'd sometimes find it hard to get to sleep the first night or so, but it wasn't as bad as going without a cigarette, missing adderall, or what I've seen people go through on opiates. Given that many recreational users are into other stuff, too (especially before legal dispensaries that looked like Apple stores came along), along with the pro-cannabis propaganda, it's easy to see how people don't take it seriously.
• AnEro 3y ago
  Any escape from reality or avoidance of it is addictive. And weed is way to normalized for self-medicating, if you said "im anxious im going to smoke" people are way more okay with hearing that than if you said you where getting a beer.
• zer8k 3y ago
  Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction. It's a comparison problem. It won't kill you like alcohol withdrawals will or make you agitated like nicotine will. So then it must be okay right? These same potheads will quote studies and news articles talking about the benefits or just how risk free it is. Its very similar to the way a functional alcoholic will justify their drinking. They even use avoidance language. 20 years ago we called it weed, now we call it "cannabis". Oh, you're not addicted to weed you're just using cannabis every hour of every day. I think legalization didn't help, nor hurt, but the re-branding of weed as "cannabis" while biologically correct gave these type of people a get out of jail free card. If you don't believe me, say to yourself "I smoke weed 8 times a day" versus "I use cannabis 8 times a day". One of them makes you sound like a degenerate, one of them makes you sound like you take a medication. That difference is very important in justifying addiction in the mind of an addict.
  • episiarch 3y ago
    [flagged]
    • zer8k 3y ago
      > My eyes are rolling so hard. You convicted them on evidence of their denial? The behavior of an addict doesn't need a degree to see. If you are in a perpetual haze, need it to get up in the morning, and say you do not have a problem you do have a problem. > These strawmen are transparent and juvenile, while substance dependency of every kind is a complicated and common problem that requires far more nuance. This is not worth addressing because it seems like you're just mad. > Whatever axe you're grinding, it's basically unhinged and socially degenerate in and of itself. I've noticed people who like the word "cannabis" take issue with it being called avoidance language. It's the same thing seen in vapes, different variations of alcohol, designer drugs, etc. In fact, vapes follow almost the same model as the "cannabis industry" and do quite a bit to dance around the fact it's a drug. Vape stores in particular will sell to 50mg salt nic as a new user. A weed store will sell you medical grade 80% THC hydro as a first time user. Drugs are drugs. If you use them responsibly you probably aren't smoking/drinking/injecting it to feel normal. The path to profitability is to create addicts. You do this by feeding them more of the addicting substance they they realize. I'm not sure what you're on about but maybe you forgot to toke up before posting.
• Knee_Pain 3y ago
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  • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    Many things can be addictive as that largely has to do with how a person's habits affect their life. One can play card games without becoming addicted.
    • throwbadubadu 3y ago
      But the same is then also true for cannabis, alcohol and likely some more drugs.. underlining OPs statement? Or not? Just confused.
      • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        Perhaps I am assuming too much of the subtext. People commonly say things like this to suggest that it necessarily causes addiction which makes it a Bad Thing. It is true generally that it "can" cause addiction but only true circumstantially that it "does" cause addiction. Again, I may be reading too much into the comment but it seemed to be trying to make the "necessarily does cause addiction" point.
• mistrial9 3y ago
  hilarious to see two hundred years of alcohol and tobacco medical cases, make big noises about an herb from the ground. They really have no clue? being "friendly and creative" does not make good armies. It really does come down to that, doesnt it? Obviously all kinds of people abuse substances daily. I saw a grown man sniff solvent glue from a bag once! How stupid is that? No one is suggesting that substance abuse is benign. The difference here is that this is a Political Newspaper pointing to "peril." The article is not the entire story, it is a partial story designed to create reactions along a story-line. get more exercise and relate to people.. not a headliner
  • johnea 3y ago
    [flagged]
    • zikduruqe 3y ago
      Genesis 1:29-30 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth..." I mean, they pick and choose.
    • mistrial9 3y ago
      The Roman Empire knew about marijuana from the Scythians and some turkic people, and from South Asia. The Romans rejected those cultures and built professional armies instead. Their drug was alcohol. Christian reformers 500 years after the Fall of the Western Empire stuck with that formula, including alcohol in the Holy Sacrament, explicitly rejecting other substances. Hebrews also rejected other substances but included meat and alcohol -- which are explicitly banned in Hindu-Vedic systems with a vegetarian approach.
• clarge1120 3y ago
  The coolest part of this whole discussion is that we can finally compare weed and alcohol. Before the current weed era, weed was always compared favorably, by smokers, to alcohol with the adage: Weed is illegal, yet I've never seen a bar fight after everyone gets high. Now we can do a real comparison of the effects of weed smoking on the general public, the same way we've done with drinking.
  • Invictus0 3y ago
    Not sure this experiment would pass the IRB
    • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      Still, there's a point in the parent comment. One can more easily make observations about the behavior of their peers before/during/after use.
      • Invictus0 3y ago
        And my point is that this is weird and lurid, not "cool". It's like cheering that a smallpox outbreak occurred so you can study the disease progression.
        • lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
          > weird and lurid, not "cool" The point seems to be interesting in a way which might be called "cool" if one happens to be so interested. Even if one finds it lurid they may also find it interesting or "cool". > It's like cheering that a smallpox outbreak occurred so you can study the disease progression. I believe I understand the point. We don't want to celebrate a negative occurrence simply because there is silver lining. However, it's hard to see past a certain false equivalence that's being made. A disease which propagates ought to be treated differently from personal choices even if the things are equally destructive to the individual. But I'm a philosopher at heart. Let's say a person chooses to infect themselves with a disease to facilitate study of some aspect of it. Let's also say that they are able to do this in an environment that all but guarantees the disease will not propagate except possibly to other willing volunteers. Should this research be prevented? Would the results of this research definitely not be "cool", meaning "interesting"?
• lm28469 3y ago
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• extr 3y ago
  When I was in my early 20s I would probably say I had a dependence on cannabis. Key for me in transitioning away from that was lower THC % products. It's was as if I wanted to enjoy a single beer after work but the only thing available was everclear. Most vape pens are billed as 85%+ THC. Now, I still enjoy cannabis, but I have a single puff of a vape pen that is around 3% THC (the rest is usually CBD) before bed. Or I take an edible that is 1.5mg THC (very low, edibles are usually sold at 5-10mg doses). It's a much different relationship. I don't feel like my mind is racing out of control, I don't build up a massive tolerance. I sleep fine without it. It's startling to think that a single puff of a 90% pen is literally 30x as much THC. However, these products are disappointingly few and far between. When I walk into a CA dispensary, I actually have to hunt around for them, if they're even available. When I ask, staff members wonder if I'm buying it for my grandmother! It would be great to see the industry refocus on products that are designed to be consumed in moderation.
  • jdhn 3y ago
    >It would be great to see the industry refocus on products that are designed to be consumed in moderation. I feel that the legal weed industry is speedrunning the past decade of craft brewing. Craft beer focused on growing the scene while focusing on higher and higher ABV beers, but now is transitioning back towards beers that are a bit more sessionable and don’t get you blasted after 2 beers. Wouldn’t be surprised to see the weed industry start focusing on sessionable items sooner rather than later.
    • dylan604 3y ago
      Very much in agreement. Cannabis as a medicine means needing other cannabinoids other than THC. The minors all contribute in ways that we're just now really starting to study for a better understanding of the why.
      • DANmode 3y ago
        Relearning old lessons. Oils from plants in nature are super helpful, when used correctly! (Hint: if you're a medicinal user in any form, probably best to stop lighting shit on fire)
• yodsanklai 3y ago
  I have few friends who are seriously addicted. Their lives revolve entirely around cannabis. That being said, I don't think it's a particularly addictive substance. People get addicted to all sorts of things. For instance gambling, it's hard to believe someone can be addicted to that, yet people are...
  • boring_twenties 3y ago
    Why is it so difficult to understand how people get addicted to gambling? I'm pretty sure it causes observable physiological changes, like increased heart rate
    • deadbeeves 3y ago
      Name an activity that causes no effects whatsoever on an organism's physiology.
      • omginternets 3y ago
        In all fairness, not all activities have the dopaminergic response of gambling.
        • deadbeeves 3y ago
          Agreed, but that's a very different statement from "it causes physiological effects", or even "it raises the heart rate".
    • deleted 3y ago
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• chewz 3y ago
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  • chollida1 3y ago
    > THC is destroying mitochondria like nothing else... Really? I've never heard that. What source did you learn this from? I tend to eat weed before running and have for 20ish years. If it really did destroy mitochondria then I'd expect it would show up in my vo2 max or some other measurable health stat. I'm slightly concerned but given that this is the first time I've heard this, I'm not too worried about it.
    • zingababba 3y ago
      I personally believe cannabis + exercise is the most glorious thing on this planet. I've been using it primarily as an ergogenic for some time now, simply fabulous.
  • deadbeeves 3y ago
    If THC was especially good at destroying mitochondria we'd be seeing lots of cannabis users with cases of necrotic tissue due to cells being unable to maintain their metabolism.
• spoonjim 3y ago
  There is one great solution to all of this and it’s to never have a substance at all. I’ve had a few things but now don’t drink, smoke, or consume drugs and life is great.
  • rc5150 3y ago
    It really must be nice to not feel the need or want to alter your consciousness. Lots of people I know who frequently use cannabis do so in order to change their perception of reality because for many, reality fucking sucks. Getting high is a great way to escape that.
    • spoonjim 3y ago
      I’m sure I’d enjoy heroin but I’m adult enough to not try it
• unfocused 3y ago
  Here is a document (PDF ~266 pages) about INFORMATION FOR HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS Cannabis (marihuana, marijuana) and the cannabinoids Dried or fresh plant and oil administration by ingestion or other means Psychoactive agent https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/hc-sc/documents/services/drugs-medication/cannabis/information-medical-practitioners/information-health-care-professionals-cannabis-cannabinoids-eng.pdf https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/hc-sc/documents/services/d... I think what people need to be reminded of is that addiction will always exist. Whether it is collecting Pokémon, Video Games, Gambling, Drugs etc. What cannabis brings is less damage, post use, than say, Oxycontin. This is one simple example. Not a doctor, so don't ask me for details!
  • chefandy 3y ago
    It's clearly less damaging and chemically addictive than alcohol or whatever, but I wouldn't necessarily equate it with collecting Pokemon. I had a roommate who'd been persistently stoned for probably 30 years. A girlfriend convinced him to only use it on a few evenings a week, and he quickly realized that he'd entirely lost the ability to handle urgent negative emotions-- anger, frustration, disappointment, etc. He was still a great guy, but man did that put him through the ringer. Normally steadfastly mellow, one day I heard him stomping up the stairs to our apartment, then stomped into the living room, looked at me and exasperatedly said "THE WHOLE WORLD IS STUPID. EVERYBODY IS STUPID. EVERYBODY SUCKS" and then went into his room, slammed the door, and literally screamed at the top of his lungs 4 or 5 times. About half an hour later, he came out, apologized and said he got blocked for maybe 45 seconds taking a left into our driveway because someone who'd stopped at the traffic light right there either rudely or obliviously didn't leave an opening, which pushed him right over the edge. I knew what he was going through, and knew he was talking to a therapist about it, so I wasn't worried for him... but I sure felt bad for him!
    • zlg_codes 3y ago
      I want to thank you for sharing this story. I've struggled with my own THC addiction, using it as a crutch for trauma and anxiety, but your comment helped me realize that, like your roommate, the addiction has wrecked my ability to (responsibly and maturely) process negative situations. Enduring those situations is one thing, but seeing how they're connected to other parts of a more complete life is different. Sometimes it helps to see it described by someone else before you really see what you, yourself are in. Thanks again for helping a stranger connect some dots. You've given me more to think about in my approach to kick this habit.
• hirvi74 3y ago
  In my experiences, cannabis is about as addictive as coffee/caffeine. By that, I mean it's unpleasant to quit after continuous usage due to various withdrawal side-effects but only for a relatively short period of time (3 or 4 days max).
  • engineer_22 3y ago
    Have you returned to using cannabis?
    • hirvi74 3y ago
      Yes, I have. Though, I have another scheduled break coming up soon. I didn't start using cannabis until I was in my late 20s almost 30s, and my brain was already fully developed by then (I guess?). So, perhaps that has something to do with it being easy to quit? I'll say this, cannabis is no panacea, but I do find the benefits profound. There are some negative side-effects, but they are very benign in the grand scheme of life. I am not anti-medicine by any means, but I will tell you this much. Cannabis has been better in terms of efficacy and side-effects than the one anti-anxiety medication I tried back in the day. Cannabis was far easier to quit too.
  • bryanlarsen 3y ago
    I had symptoms for about a month after quitting caffeine. I think your analogy holds. Most people only have a couple of days of symptoms after quitting caffeine. But if you're on 4+ cups a day and/or you have a sensitive physiology, quitting can be rough.
  • cameronfraser 3y ago
    dabbing all day and vaping oil is in no way comparable to caffeine, cannabis is way more addictive, side effects last longer than 3-4 days as well. People are extremely irritable having lost their main crutch for a month or longer. The fog doesn't lift for about a month. This article is talking about people actually addicted, not like they smoke once a day in the evenings or something.
    • 3y ago
• Weryj 3y ago
  I would classify myself as addicted to weed. From my perspective and my best rationalisation of it, when I'm bored or stressed I reach for a dopamine hit and weed is a great source of one. The next day I'll have a low and there's a 'battle' between the rational and want. The rational side almost never wins and I'll be in a daily usage cycle for months. That being said I think it's an easier drug to break the cycle of with planning, since it only takes a few days of no use to dramatically improve my chances of resisting and honestly, if I didn't suffer from poor memory performance, I'd be okay as a daily smoker. But working is next to impossible at the level needed as a SDE.
  • LargeTomato 3y ago
    >working is next to impossible at the level needed as a SDE. This is the truth. I can't reason as well or as quickly. Things go over my head. My working memory is so much smaller. I get lost in code all the time. I forget what I'm working on.
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • boredemployee 3y ago
      > Things go over my head. My working memory is so much smaller. I get lost in code all the time. I forget what I'm working on. I have the same symptons but I don't smoke weed. Maybe I'm just bored of the work required.
    • simon83 3y ago
      > I can't reason as well or as quickly. Things go over my head. My working memory is so much smaller. I get lost in code all the time. I forget what I'm working on. Is that while being high on THC, or being sober but having consumed lets say the day before?
      • LargeTomato 3y ago
        Both. When I'm high at work it's very very acute. When I'm not high but I was high yesterday I can tell I'm lower-functioning but it's not as bad. Weed and untreated bipolar disorder are directly responsible for me losing my jobs at SpaceX, Google, and 2 other smaller companies.
• 1letterunixname 3y ago
  I would guess it's less than 5% of users in the US. There are weed addicts. My college dorm had about half a dozen students jonesing when all the dealers (5-6 in our area) went home for the winter holidays. Did anyone lose their job, get in a wreck, end up in the hospital, or die from it? I seriously doubt it. I'd say alcoholism and binge drinking are far bigger threats. You know, like my roommate who nearly died from alcohol poisoning on his 21st birthday from downing half a dozen shots of everclear and more. The magnitude of harm, impairment, and life dysfunction for substance abuse varies by said substance. Weed addiction isn't nothing but it's not tobacco, drinking, or meth. I'd said the biggest harm of weed is people who smoke it unfiltered and inhale microfines and ultrafines more so than filtered tobacco cigarettes. Dabbing could be potentially better, but so much of the market is grey and black that there's not enough research or uniform safety standards on producing healthy inhalation products.
  • cameronfraser 3y ago
    this isn't a measuring contest to see which drug is worse, this is just acknowledging that people can have severe addiction issues with cannabis. Just because you don't die from withdrawals doesn't mean it can't lead to serious quality of life issues and poor mental health.
  • smokeitaway 3y ago
    The phrase "burnt out hippie" exists for a good reason. I was widely regarded as brilliant when I started smoking. After 30 years of smoking almost every day, and about 5 years of smoking a few times a year, I'm noticeably dumber than peers who didn't smoke, who I used to run circles around. With very few exceptions, I've only used weed. For me, the biggest harm was brain damage.
    • dabears 3y ago
      I'm curious what you're really trying to say here and why feel the need to compare yourself to your peers in such a way. Do you feel like you wasted those years because your peers are "smarter" than you now?
• smokeitaway 3y ago
  I've been addicted to thc for much of my adult life. I know people who smoke much more than I ever did. I'd use every day, only after work, but I never didn't use it after work. I was using it as a crutch, I used it as a cure-all, I used it as a social lubricant. As mentioned in the article, I used it for anxiety, and the anxiety got worse. I tried to quit a bunch of times, some more successfully than others. But quitting is really hard. I'd successfully exhaust my supply, but there's always bowl- and grinder-scrapings. After a night or two of smoking tar and dust, "fuck it", I'd find some more. My #1 excuse was always sleep. Weed is the best sleep aid I've ever found. Quitting usually went fine until I wanted to go to bed. Several hours into a sleepless night, desperation sets in. Eventually, I found a hack in LSD when I first had the determination to use it without mixing THC. I slept like a baby. No cravings the next day, or the next. I started dreaming again, after years of sleeping like a corpse and waking up exhausted. I've since started and stopped a few times. Picked it back up to be social (and, hey, it's fun!), the habit-driving insomnia comes back with a vengeance. Stopping with LSD seems to work reliably for me. I only allow myself a hit of LSD per year, so that's how often I excuse a social session. But the last couple of times, I haven't needed the LSD. It seems that I finally kicked the compulsion. Although, I don't trust that enough to make it a more regular habit. Edit reply to jrflowers: No, I do not take acid to sleep. Taking it once allows me to quit thc cold turkey. I take it first thing in the morning, so I'm hungry for dinner and sleepy for bedtime. Last thing I need is a new habit. Edit reply to gvedem (an hour and a half later I'm still "posting too fast" to make a second comment): I bought the acid from a friend. I am aware that "one tab" is not a standardized dose and that adjacent tabs on a sheet can have significant discrepancy. But "one tab" is what I took.
  • jrflowers 3y ago
    You take acid to sleep?
  • armatav 3y ago
    LSD used correctly is an insanely effective way to combat addiction
    • 3y ago
• johnea 3y ago
  Just think of all the "shoe buying addicts" and their lack of support... https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/fashion/article/fugly-shoes-addiction https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/fashion/article/fugly-shoes-ad... People's ability to form psychological depenndancies on just about anything is a well established phenomenon.
• neonate 3y ago
  https://archive.ph/WePGh https://archive.ph/WePGh
• seadan83 3y ago
  I am not sure where to start with on this article. There are a lot of extraneous and tired points being trotted out that really clouds the underlying point. Essentially the point I took is some people could use serious help, and they get laughed at by society and the drug treatment programs they find because their problem is cannabis (and not say meth). I don't think this is a surprise or that profound. Drug treatment in the US has been generally 'jail' (and still is for most drugs, and for cannabis as well in many regions). Actual drug treatment in the US is something of a joke for any substance, whether you are taken seriously or not. Drug treatment programs are expensive, often not covered by health insurance (if you have health insurance), often not effective - and that is the tip of the iceberg. US medicine severely struggles for holistic treatments. Drug addiction treatment needs holistic treatment. For example, detox centers will help a person come down and get over the most intense part of withdrawal. This is super important for alcohol as that withdrawal can kill you. But, this is symptomatic of how US medicine works - treats the chemical and biology, but not the person. Read further on the updated rat-park experiment for why 'treating the person' is so important: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-does-rat-park-teach-us-about-addiction https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-does-rat-park-tea... A couple of other notable points I'd like to raise: > “You smell it in the air when you’re sitting at a stoplight,” Courtney said. This made me laugh. Try to quit smoking tobacco... Try to give up alcohol. Both are _everywhere_ On a serious point, giving up any substance can be a real challenge, no matter what it is. > and the potency of the drug has been increased — This is such a boogeyman. Total amount of drug ingested is quantity times potency. Old school people made up the low potency with quantity. What is more though, there always was high potency strains available (just not as prevalent today). Thai sticks, hash oils, they have been around for a long time. So, the high potency stuff has been around, that is not new, and most people compensate for the high potency by ingesting less.
  • roughly 3y ago
    > This is such a boogeyman. Total amount of drug ingested is quantity times potency. Old school people made up the low potency with quantity. What is more though, there always was high potency strains available (just not as prevalent today). Thai sticks, hash oils, they have been around for a long time. So, the high potency stuff has been around, that is not new, and most people compensate for the high potency by ingesting less. My supply back when I used to smoke was limited to “what my dealer had available.” There may have been better strains available, but I sure couldn’t get my hands on them. There’s also an issue of “minimum viable dose” - provided you have sufficient time and determination, you can get just as high with shitty weed as you can with the good stuff, but it’s an awful lot harder to get only as high with the good stuff as you did with the shitty stuff. I am pro-legalization and anti-drug war, but I hear this bromide about the enormously increased availability of high-potency THC products not leading people to consume more and I just wonder what world y’all are living on.
• deleted 3y ago
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• SCAQTony 3y ago
  I spoke with a rehab specialist and he mentioned that since cannabis is oil based, there is no physical withdrawal symptoms as there are with other opioid products. This is due to taking weeks to get cannabis out of your system. Thus, it is often argued that it is not physically addictive but rather psychologically addictive.
  • metadat 3y ago
    Abruptly stopping after prolonged heavy use can wreak havoc on the person's sleep patterns. Seems like a notable withdrawal symptom of you ask me.
    • CodeWriter23 3y ago
      "rehab specialist" typically means someone who was previously a client of a treatment center, perhaps with or perhaps without a certificate in counseling. Source: my observations routinely interacting with numerous clients and employees (never a client nor employee myself) of more than a few treatment centers. An Addictionologist is an M.D. with a specialty in addiction who can speak to the matter on a scientific basis.
    • conkeisterdoor 3y ago
      Indeed, and so can smoking shortly before bed. Regular daily use can also suppress your ability to dream (or at least your ability to remember those dreams). I've gone through periods where I smoke a relatively small amount of flower on a daily basis for months at a time, and then stop cold turkey, over a dozen or so times in my life. One thing I really enjoy about stopping cold turkey to take a tolerance break is that my dreams become profoundly vivid during the first week or so of withdrawal. I can often remember dreams vividly as if they occurred in waking life, for as long as two days after the night I dreamt, and with enough clarity to write them out in detail. I usually look forward to the experience. Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but I actually enjoy the "come down" from individual smoke "sessions", and the "reset" I experience when stopping cold turkey. It feels refreshing in a way, not really sure how to describe it.
      • 3y ago
• myshpa 3y ago
  Psilocybin is able to instantly turn off an addiction, and it is not addictive itself. https://time.com/6167638/psilocybin-addiction-therapeutic-breakthrough/ https://time.com/6167638/psilocybin-addiction-therapeutic-br... Psilocybin Could be a Therapeutic Breakthrough For Addiction https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9947277/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9947277/ All four clinical trials indicated a beneficial effect of psilocybin-assisted therapy on SUD symptoms https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27441452/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27441452/ All 15 participants ... At 12-month follow-up, 10 participants (67%) were confirmed as smoking abstinent. At long-term follow-up, nine participants (60%) were confirmed as smoking abstinent. At 12-month follow-up 13 participants (86.7%) rated their psilocybin experiences among the five most personally meaningful and spiritually significant experiences of their lives.
  • colecut 3y ago
    I would love to stop smoking, and have taken mushrooms several times in the past couple months... It unfortunately doesn't work for everyone.
    • haswell 3y ago
      The key with these studies is the associated therapy. I’ve heard the effects of psilocybin described as (roughly) increasing neuroplasticity for a time, thus allowing changes that would be significantly harder to accomplish otherwise. But I don’t think unguided trips would automatically have this effect if you don’t already have the necessary tools/frameworks going in.
  • HDThoreaun 3y ago
    I'm addicted to weed and do a lot of mushrooms as well. Never felt the urge to stop weed after a trip. As with all addictions, but especially weed, the only way to stop is to want to. The only really bad thing about quitting is the boredom from not being high. I've quite a dozen times myself, going upwards of a year sober, but I'm much less happy afterwards.
    • 3y ago
• nemo44x 3y ago
  Anytime I hear about Marijuana addiction I think of this (vulgar) scene from the Dave Chappelle movie "Half Baked": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwG3HWubpZI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwG3HWubpZI Definitely some skepticism there!
  • mijoharas 3y ago
    I was waiting for someone to post this clip (was just searching the thread before I did it as well). It's all I could think of when setting the article.
• 666satanhimself 3y ago
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• rayiner 3y ago
  My wife got a body scrub at a spa in Oregon recently. The more exfoliating of the two scrub options (I think salt versus volcanic ash) was based on CBD oil. The spa insisted that it was relaxing and folks got it all the time with no trouble. My wife was sick for the better part of three days, puking and nauseous. Apparently CBD poisoning is a thing, and the amount added to these things (especially in consideration of absorption vectors) is pretty much unregulated.
• hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  One related thing I'd like to point out that I think the article gets wrong is that the 2018 Farm Bill, which aimed to legalize just hemp, for all intents and purposes made weed legal nationwide due to some clever workarounds by producers. I live in a state that very, very much still calls all use of marijuana illegal except for some very specific and tightly controlled medical uses (i.e. it's not like "hey doc, can you just write me a 'script" like other states), yet I can still walk into a very nice, clean, well-maintained store in a plain strip mall and: 1. Buy D9 gummies and other edibles that contain up to 50mg D9 THC. Basically, since the law defines hemp as containing < .3% D9 THC, producers just extract all the D9 THC from hemp and inject it into edibles such that the total weight of the edible means there is still less than .3% D9 THC in the edible. These get me just as baked as "normal" weed gummies, they're just a bit bigger. 2. More surprising to me is the recent addition of "THCA Hemp Flower". To me these are just normal buds - I can grind them up and vape them and they get me just as high as "normal" weed. Basically these flowers contain low amounts of THC, but high amounts of THCA. But when you heat it, THCA turns into THC by decarboxylation. The thing that I don't understand is that I thought "normal" marijuana always needed to be heated anyway, e.g. why they say you can't just eat a weed bud but if you're making an edible you need to heat the oils first. The gummies/edible workaround I can understand, but the THCA flower "workaround" seems like it's skirting really close to the edge of the law. Not that I'm complaining or anything, but it's weird to me how people don't know that weed is legal nationwide in the US.
  • scythe 3y ago
    >The thing that I don't understand is that I thought "normal" marijuana always needed to be heated anyway I can confirm, as I had a rather disappointing failure (many years ago) in making some edibles when they didn't get hot enough for decarboxylation when I was using marijuana that I knew to be of excellent quality.
  • aketchum 3y ago
    re #2 As I understand it, normal marijuana contains 1-2% TCH and the rest being THCA. So the new "high TCHA flower" is not higher TCHA than normal, simply lower pure THC than normal. Craziest part is you can buy the high TCHA flower and the D9 Edibles online, shipped through USPS, and you just pay standard sales tax (not a sin tax like you would in a legal state).
• pengstrom 3y ago
  I struggle with cannabis addiction on and off. When I'm into it, it means several joints daily for months until I manage to pull my self out of. One day I fear I won't be able to.
• psychphysic 3y ago
  Forget Marijuana addiction, we have a cupcake addiction problem. Society will drown under obese patients long before we need to worry about pot heads.
  • mpalmer 3y ago
    It never fails to amaze me how many people comment on Problem A: "Why aren't we paying more attention to Problem B?" As though all the people who struggle with marijuana use need to wait in line, and all the world's experts on substance abuse wasted their money getting a degree in something other than nutritional science. By the way, you're clearly fine minimizing the suffering of people struggling with marijuana use by calling them "pot heads", why not stay consistent and call people struggling with weight problems "fatties"?
    • psychphysic 3y ago
      Call em what you like the personal and societal toxicity of being a chunky monkey will put weight (hehe) and crush the effect of being a grass-hound. The articles just pearl clutching anyways. But yes, public health absolutely requires creation of a priority queue with every dollar spent here, being a dollar not spent there.
    • exodust 3y ago
      > "...suffering of people struggling with marijuana use..." Suffering and struggling? From the perspective of the marijuana user, suffering and struggling belongs to others, not them. This means an outsider makes the judgement call about who is suffering and to what degree. Cannabis users are often willing to pay the price of admission for a struggle-free existence. That's the point of regular use: to take the edge off. The price of admission can be slower cognitive activity, reduced physical activity, less pursuit of goals, and less interest in meeting social expectations. These things might be measures of a "good productive citizen", but those standards are external and artificial, and pot users conscientiously put those norms on the chopping block.
      • mpalmer 3y ago
• foxyv 3y ago
  As much as I think that Marijuana should be decriminalized completely. I also still think that it causes a ton of problems among those who smoke it. I've had friends change completely after starting to smoke habitually. I don't think it would be a problem if our society weren't so messed up right now. But, like alcohol, I think poverty and isolation just makes it so much worse.
  • thefz 3y ago
    You don't need to reach to poverty and isolation to see its effect. I have some friends in their 30s-40s who daily consume 3-7 joints, and it shows. They are in full denial but you can really tell they are slow. In everything. It screws up your cognition.
    • temende 3y ago
      Just wondering, have you told your friends that you notice this about them? If so what was their reaction like?
  • deleted 3y ago
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• max_lameme 3y ago
  I smoked a lot of weed daily (~1gram/day) for almost 10 years. Finally got sick of this life and decided to quit, once I run out of it. First day I was pissed and then I was cured. I always thought that I'm addicted and it will be almost impossible to stop, but turned out I wasn't really addicted.
  • deleted 3y ago
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  • Smashure 3y ago
    Being able to quit doesn’t mean you’re not addicted. Addiction has a list of defined symptoms in the DSM.
    • hirvi74 3y ago
      The DSM is just a compilation of named clusters of ambiguous and arbitrary symptoms that have been agreed upon by some arbitrary board of psychologist and psychiatrists. It's not like the DSM is some infallible book of mental disorders backed by rigorous mathematical proofs. Rather, the DSM-V seems to be constantly criticized, lacking evidence, culturally biased, etc., and it mainly benefits health insurance companies more than patients and clinicians. FWIW, the DSM, ICD-11, Neurology, etc. all have differing definitions of the word addiction.
  • coffeebeqn 3y ago
    That is one of the “great” things about weed. There really is no physical addiction so once you decide to stop (and avoid the behavior) then you’re pretty much in the clear. The behavior trigger can be strong so I’d recommend not having any in the house and picking up something exciting/interesting to do in the evenings to replace the urge
    • fudgefactorfive 3y ago
      I have to admit, I once agreed with this position, before I got to a ~5g a day habit. While I was a heavy user (6+ years) I was a strong proponent of legalization etc. "Better than booze", "It's only a gateway because it builds connections with people that have other stuff available". But there is arguably a physical dependence at that routing usage. First thing every morning, every 1-2 hours another J. I wanted to quit almost every day. I'd have conversations with my partner about quitting every few days. But neither of us could. If we had none we wouldn't sleep for 48+ hours, just didn't happen. Anxiety sets in, stress about everything. You just want to sleep, so you smoke. You go broke you scour the house to find enough coins or bottle to return (EU here) to get .2g to roll once to just get to the next day. You leave the house to do anything and you're so anxious and paranoid you become misanthropic. Only way to deal with it is to go home and "relax" to manage the borderline panic. Just for reference, before I was maybe a bit awkward sometimes but had absolutely no issues with the outside world. I also don't agree that afterwards you're in the clear. I used to be borderline photographic with my memory. I'd pull random statistics from papers I'd read years earlier in conversation with references that I could use to validate when challenged. I no longer can even remember what I decided to go to the grocery store for, even though it's a ~2 minute walk. I forget what I started a sentence to express while typing. I'm a systems engineer, when I change tabs in an IDE I lose nearly all the context I took with me to the new tab. Sure context switching breaks flow yadda yadda, but it's just different. I don't even remember there was something to remember, just... "why am I here again?"? I do agree that the behaviour trigger is very strong, so I replaced the urge with League, an arguably far more self-destructive tendency.
• foreverobama 3y ago
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• arp242 3y ago
  The current "Cannabis industry" is not that different from a "Tobacco industry 2.0" by being in denial of negatives, going on "but alcohol is worse!" whataboutisms, and generally denying responsibility from the negative effects. That doesn't mean it should be made illegal, but I strongly dislike the current state of the industry and regulation; it's like we learned nothing from tobacco or alcohol. All of the above applies to psychedelics even more, especially to those who tout the therapeutic effects while denying there are risks (the therapeutic effects are real, so are the risks).
  • skyechurch 3y ago
    The risks with pot and psychedelics are less easily quantifiable than with opiates, meth, etc. There are no bodies, which of course is good. But, leaving aside the acute or chronic psychosis cases, people who overuse these substances often end up depleted in characteristic ways.
• wonderwonder 3y ago
  I take edibles / smoke a few times a week. Never during work hours. I think if I started consuming during work I would label myself an addict. I generally find I am a much better parent / husband when on a low dose of thc. My patience for my kids is infinite. I spend time with them just teaching them chess or showing them how to do pushups, or just talking. When not high, my mind wants to do a lot of other things that are generally unimportant and future focused. THC grounds me in the now. My wife prefers it as I am pretty much agreeable to whatever she wants [I mean this in a good way, not in a "I drug him so I get what I want way"]. I am generally an argumentative person, and sweat the small stuff. Not when I am high. I never drive or do anything risky while high. I'm also not taking so high a dose that I am making bad decisions [besides the next sentence]. If I could just avoid being hungry while high it would be perfect but eating a cake after spending an hour and a half at the gym is pretty dumb.
  • lying4fun 3y ago
    > When not high, my mind wants to do a lot of other things that are generally unimportant and future focused. THC grounds me in the now. I had a joint-a-night (occasionally more) phase that lasted for 8 months and this resonates with my experience very much. A side effect that I miss dearly now that I am 6 months off of it. Rarely I succeed in trying to emulate it, but it’s still useful as a reference of a better state of mind, so its easier to spot when I stray away too much
  • cm2012 3y ago
    100%. Weed made my life so much better because it helped me be able to enjoy myself in the present.
    • HKH2 3y ago
      Yeah being able to shut out the noise for a moment can do wonders.
  • mikhmha 3y ago
    Yes it’s similar for me. It’s strange because before I used to get very anxious when stoned and it was a generally unpleasant time. But then I spent one year at home getting stoned and playing competitive video game Dota 2. And doing that seemed to melt my anxiety away. I learned how to be confident in my thoughts and perceptions under an alternate state of mind. The proof was winning a a match or seeing some strategy of mine pan out. And I learned when to ignore others and not let their thoughts influence me. I learned how to live in the present.
• ilteris 3y ago
  I was consuming 5-6 grams a day for over a year until 3 months ago after weed got super easy to find in my state. It allowed me to escape from my responsibilities, first thing I thought in the morning and I seriously I thought I could not quit. I then watched a video of myself interacting with my 7 year old with my super bloody eyes and looked like a loser. That and my own mom's "I am scared that you would not be able to quit" were two things that triggered me to stop right there. Weed made me resentful towards people and life, made me criticize everything around me. I am not going to waste my 40s like that.
  • wonderwonder 3y ago
    That's a lot of marijuana. Good for you for recognizing you have an issue and quitting.
  • HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Congratulations. Your kid will cherish their newfound time with the parent you truly are. I find it can be so hard to show your love under the cloud of marijuana dependence.
    • parentheses 3y ago
      Showing love when under the influence of THC is not hard. Relearning how to without it is pretty hard. Conversely, you're so much more present as a parent when sober - even if that means you're more serious. I love your comment and encouragement.
      • op00to 3y ago
        My parents were both incredibly neurotic, anxious people, and it has rubbed off on me. I wonder how I would have grown up if, instead of my mom's gin & tonic & marlboro lights, and my dad's ever present jack daniels & cigars, they had gone with some weed instead. My parents were not alcoholics, but emotionally absent due to anxiety. I really think things would have been much better.
• Scofield67 3y ago
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• mahathu 3y ago
  Interesting article that I didn't expect to find on HN. thanks for sharing! I would like to add that in my own experience (and that of others, it wasn't mentioned in the article), synthetic cannabinoids, like the ones "cannabis" sold by the guys in the park down the road is laced with, is considerably more addictive than medicinal quality marijuana. Also, instead of a slow buildup, it usually hits a few seconds after taking a hit already and doesn't last as long, plus the effects were really paranoia inducing for me, to the point where I had auditory hallucinations and was afraid I gave myself schizophrenia for the rest of my life. But it was so addicting that stopping even for a full day felt like an insurmountable feat. I was already quite depressed before, so the feeling wasn't that much different, but at times I just couldn't wait to get home, light up a joint and blast myself with podcasts (usually reports from other countries and other cultures, something as far away from home as possible), sports broadcasts or the 10th The Office re-watch. Basically retreating into a cocoon where I wouldn't have to deal with the outside world. one time i woke up still wearing my shinguards from football ("soccer") practice the day before. I finally stopped when I had to go on a trip and be sober for 2 weeks. As long as I wasn't at home, I didn't even think about smoking much (which is crazy when days before quitting seemed so out of the question) and when I came back I didn't have much trouble staying away, fortunately. Now I just take a few hits every couple weeks and actually get to enjoy being high for a change.
• Eumenes 3y ago
  Living in a legal state, I'm most annoyed by the number of pot shops everywhere. Its: gas stations, banks, fast food, weed shops. A boring utopia.
• kerkeslager 3y ago
  This isn't complicated: marijuana is addictive to some people, but making it illegal doesn't solve that problem--it should be legal. But it's apparent that's too much nuance for the average politician. I'll add that I've also experienced this with caffeine: I've got more than one health reason to quit (heart arrhythmia, anxiety, insomnia), but I had a hell of a time quitting, with multiple failed attempts (now a few months out and hoping it sticks this time). And when I talk about it to the people around me, I get shocked and even defensive reactions. But my life is so much better when I'm not drinking coffee. Which is not to say that's the best decision for everyone.
  • rayiner 3y ago
    > marijuana is addictive to some people, but making it illegal doesn't solve that problem--it should be legal. But it's apparent that's too much nuance for the average politician. By your logic, it's futile to ban harmful products, which is a weird take. Making something illegal influences social norms. It signals that something is "bad" and for "bad people." Not everyone will abide by that social signal, but most people will. Banning something where the rest of the culture is trying to normalize it probably is futile. But that doesn't mean that banning things doesn't work, or that legalizing things won't make the problem worse. It's hard to ignore that marijuana seems to be much more prevalent now that it's been legalized in many places.
    • JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y ago
      Great thinking! Surely this will work for alcohol too - let's do that one next.
      • rayiner 3y ago
        Banning alcohol works fine in Muslim countries where there’s not a 2,000 year religious tradition of alcohol use.
    • croes 3y ago
      It's weird that alcohol is legal when marijuana isn't. The damage by alcohol is much higher. Banning alcohol didn't work.
• thebigspacefuck 3y ago
  In my experience, cannabis addiction is the definition of insidious. I used it daily in high school and college since the age of 15 or 16. The effects on my learning and memory were profound, but I never noticed how bad until I was off it for 1-2 months. I was flunking Calculus, got busted my parents, then my head cleared, I picked up the subject in a month without even studying and aced the AP Calc exam. Same thing happened in college studying engineering, I’d flunk the first exam, decide to quit, then learned the material easily. Most people aren’t trying to learn STEM so it’s probably impossible to tell how bad it’s impacting you. The withdrawals weren’t so bad, just feeling kind of spaced out and weird for one or two months, but it was just hard to quit because you don’t see the reason to. I haven’t smoked much since school, but my memory is so bad now 10 years later it’s sad.
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• hn8305823 3y ago
  Get addicted to cannabis: You might spend more $$$ per month than you would like to Get addicted to alcohol: Die a very painful death over a two-month period as multiple organs shut down. Get addicted to tobacco: Die a very painful death over many years as you develop cancer and try to fight it. Get addicted to cocaine: You will definitely spend more $$$ per month than you would like and will probably die of a heart attack by the time you are 50
  • croes 3y ago
    Alcoholics can survive pretty long, way longer than two month.
    • hn8305823 3y ago
      Until their organs start failing, then it's a rapid - but not rapid enough - cascade. I've watched a loved one die this way and it's horrific.
  • xormapmap 3y ago
    > Get addicted to cannabis: You might spend more $$$ per month than you would like to I can tell you are addicted to cannabis because you are way downplaying addiction to it while exaggerating the other substances. While cannabis will not kill you it can still destroy relationships, make you stupid, and waste 40 years of your life. That sort of behaviour can rub off on your kids too, so when they're adults and also addicted to cannabis and playing it off as "I just spend more money than I'd like", that's on you.
  • drdaeman 3y ago
    While AFAIK no one had ever died from cannabis use, to be entirely fair, isn't there some impact of long-term use on brain functions? Plus some effect on the lungs if smoking (though, of course, there are other means of consumption). Also, most certainly it takes somewhat longer than a couple months of alcohol abuse for the liver and other organs to start failing.
    • hn8305823 3y ago
• mmaunder 3y ago
  The negative cognitive effects of weed in its various forms are short term but very real. So continuous use deprives the user of living a much fuller life and reaping all the benefits that go with better overall brain function: financial, social, career, creative and so on. So while the addictive nature of marijuana may be debatable, continuous long term, or lifetime use, whatever the cause, has awful consequences for the user.
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  • nick__m 3y ago
    >... reaping all the benefits that go with better overall brain function: financial, social, career, creative... Have all that yet I was an heavy cannabis user from 14 to 40. The reason I stopped is that I developed Cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. The nausea was debilitating and I didn't want it to progress to vomiting. As long as your passionate by what you do cannabis pose no problem, but I will conceed that it makes doing uninteresting things almost impossible and that this is probably harming some users in the way you describe.
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• DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  MJ was quite literally ruining my life. Quitting was the best thing I ever did. I was burnt out of my job and used marijuana to cope. New job and scenery were key to this quit.
• Rhapso 3y ago
  It's very simple: anything that makes you stop hurting, one way or another, ends up being addictive.
• itomato 3y ago
  If she could pop a legal supplement would there be a problem?
• xyzelement 3y ago
  I used to be a big fan of pot and a proponent of legalization but now I am not sure. The impact of things is at the margins - people whose lives were going to work out well, will probably still be OK even with pot. People who were gonna have big problems probably will have them anyway. But I think there are some people who will be pushed from the "barely OK" to "not OK" category. The legalization (vs decriminalization) has had a clear impact on the use. You used to smell pot when walking in NYC sometime, now you smell it consistently everywhere. You are constantly in the presence of high people which did not used to be the case. In my own life there were historically some benefits to discovery of pot, but I also recognize that areas where I wasn't vigilant about it, had negative effects. For example times in my life when I had gotten fat correlate to when I smoked actively. I was vigilant for pot messing me up in obvious ways - eg I didn't let it make me miss work or stop dating etc - but the weight subtly crept on me.
  • ttul 3y ago
    Yes, we should also make alcohol illegal again because those 1930s gangs were so cool.
    • tetrep 3y ago
      Well, modern gangs realized that if they don't go around shooting white people nobody seems to mind them much, so I don't think the 1930s gangs will reappear, modern gangs will just also deal in alcohol.
  • burkaman 3y ago
    I understand where you're coming from, but it's hard to argue that weed addiction is worse than jail (in the US). Legalization is about ending a practice that has objectively ruined many many lives. And while it's impossible to stop everyone from smoking weed and potentially becoming addicted, it's incredibly easy to stop the government from putting those people in jail. I think all this makes the decision very easy. There is no option where nobody is harmed, but legalization clearly prevents the most harm.
    • 3y ago
• cratermoon 3y ago
  Addiction is a brain disease, and it matters: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9311924/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9311924/ "effective treatment approaches will include biological, behavioral, and social-context components."
• ransom1538 3y ago
  Weed is not addictive. If you think it's addictive I beg you to watch a fentanyl withdrawal. Watch someone sell their mothers ring for a hit of heroin. Weed, um, its a joke. Get over the headache, get over the "crave" and just go play video games.
• bennyschmidt 3y ago
  Cannabis "addiction" is as problematic as caffeine "addiction". I put those in quotes because neither are what typically comes to mind when a person thinks about drug addiction. If you think quitting weed is hard, try quitting coffee if you have it every day. For me, suddenly quitting coffee results in severe migraine headaches and I can't do my job well. Extreme irritability and fatigue, it's truly a stimulant drug withdrawal. It takes about a week or so to get through it, and having green tea in its place is the only way I can reasonably taper down. A similar kind of thing happens if you suddenly stop smoking weed when you use it daily - cold sweats, irritability, but it only lasts about a day. Anyone who has struggled with caffeine, alcohol, or amphetamine addiction (yes, including ADHD pills), who has gone through a cannabis withdrawal will be pleasantly surprised for lack of a better description at how short-lived it is. I believe that's why so many stoners exclaim "I can quit at any time if I wanted", it's not that big of a deal. I really believe the negative effects of over-consuming caffeine (irritability, cold sweats, heart racing nervousness), and also the effect of withdrawing from caffeine, are both more severe than either with cannabis. Because caffeine is an accepted daily-use stimulant in our society, I compare it to that.
  • dumpster_fire 3y ago
    While I agree on the withdrawal symptoms, the main differentiating point for me is that drinking coffee doesn't waste time. Marijuana consumption is one of the most unproductive things to do for leisure. I don't do alcohol for the same reason, it's a massive waste of time. Both render the consumer functionally useless for hours, and, if you're older, assures that the next day will be extremely unpleasant. There's also a big difference on a social level. Have you ever had a pothead as a roommate? The entire house smells like a garbage dump 24/7. Whereas freshly ground coffee actually smells good. Coffee addicts only bothered me with their unwashed V60s lying around in the sink.
    • bennyschmidt 3y ago
      With respect, this sounds like a kids show depiction. It's not like an opiate, nor anything like being drunk. People use it while working - coders, writers, artists, etc. in the day time, often along with coffee. I think a lot of people get this wrong about weed, because "functionally useless" is not at all how I would describe it. Some of your favorite music, video games, even coding libraries were created by stoners! Also when you say coffee smells good and cannabis doesn't - highly subjective right? I love coffee, but some really high quality coffee smells like s*t haha (literally). There are some fruity, piney, lemony, and floral scents from fresh cannabis, just like there is a nice aroma from fresh coffee. In both cases you're talking about a flowering plant, with highly subjective smells and varying terpenoid profiles. However, note that the terepenes "pinene" "limonene" etc. in cannabis are the exact same plant terpenoids in pine trees, lemons, etc. so if you like the smell of pine trees, lemon, mangoes, roses, and other highly floral scents, you will likely also at least appreciate the smell of cannabis. I've said too much for Hacker News!
• zw123456 3y ago
  Everything can be addictive. My stepsister is addicted to buying things and never opening the item. Her husband enables this because they live out in the country and he had a sort of "warehouse" built for her with huge metal racks that hold hudreds of items she has purchased over the years that have never been opened or had the shrink wrap disturbed. It is of course a type of hoardism. She buys things but if she opens the package and uses the item it ruins it is sort of how she explains it. We know it is a disorder of some sort, she is addicted to buying things and hoarding them. What should we do about it? Well, if her husband is OK with it, then what is it for us to judge? I am conflicted on this. But, I think, there is some sort of line where something is addicting and addicting and harmful. If this is not disrupting their lives, and they are happy, who am I to judge? I don't know. To me it is weird, but probably a lot of things I do seem weird to others. I journal daily. Is that an addiction? Probably, of some sort, I don't know. How to navigate. The less harmful it is, the less we should meddle I suppose.
  • jesprenj 3y ago
    That makes me think I am also probably addicted to buying stuff from Aliexpress. When I get an idea about something, I usually compulsively buy something from AliExpress and then not finish the project, sometimes not even opening the plastic wrapping the thing came inside. I hope it doesn't transform into an addiction. For example I bought a digital pH meter for 15€ some weeks ago yet I never used it for a thing. I do not even know basic chemistry. Enough about myself (: Thank you for posting your story.
  • halkony 3y ago
    If a billionaire did this, people would see it as eccentric but not an addiction. Cause you know, he's a billionaire already. Just let him do it. If your stepsis is in dire financial straits or neglecting responsibilities, that's probably where you would draw the line. If you need a good rationale though, know that archaeologists would have a field day with her collection in 100 years :)
• mudcrab 3y ago
  Calling taking a medicine an addiction is strange, sounds like they do not factor in it being a medicine. For example, those with autism or schizophrenia have a faulty 'fatty acid binding protein 5' (fabp5)[1] which moves endocannabinoids to where they are needed[2]. Flooding the bloodstream with cannabis seems to help[3] by unlocking receptors that would normally be unlocked by endocannabinoids delivered by fabp5. Obviously this is just one of many health benefits, such as muscle recovery[4] (who would even want that??? bloody addicts i tell ya!) 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240203 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4240203 2. https://www.buffalo.edu/news/releases/2018/03/013.html https://www.buffalo.edu/news/releases/2018/03/013.html 3. https://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/programs/mornings/medicinal-cannabis-study-children-with-asd/101669836 https://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/programs/mornings/medicinal... 4. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8369499 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8369499
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  • mpalmer 3y ago
    > Calling taking a medicine an addiction is strange Treating medicine and addictive substances as mutually exclusive categories is much stranger.
    • hombre_fatal 3y ago
      Imagine biting this same bullet for benzos and opioids.
  • incompatible 3y ago
    There's no reason why it couldn't be both: helping some people while harming others, and perhaps having little effect at all on a third group.
• block_dagger 3y ago
  I've been using cannabis daily since I was 13 to treat my own OCD and other autism-like symptoms. I've taken months with no THC over my life and always come back to it. Helps me focus, socialize, and be happy. It, for me, has been a life saver.
• xu_ituairo 3y ago
  Does anyone have ideas or direction on undoing mental harm caused by smoking weed for a long time? I started at 28 (so not very young) and smoked for maybe five years. I’ve stopped for a year now and while generally feel better, still feel slightly slow regarding memory and word recall. Lacking wit and often umming while looking for the right word or someone’s name. I’ve seen research suggesting that word recall is one of the main long-lasting effects of cannabis that persists after cessation.
  • hirvi74 3y ago
    How can you be so sure it was marijuana that caused the symptoms? It's easy to point to on single variable when issues like you mention can be heavily multivariable. Did you have any dietary changes? How's your sleep? Were you ever infected with Covid-19 to your knowledge? Stress levels? Exercise levels? I am not trying to discount your experiences or anything. You know yourself far better than I know you. The only reason I even writing this comment is because I have had similar times in my life where I had more cognitive issues than I already do on a daily basis. Even these past two years, I have felt like I have been in a complete mental haze -- I was slow at work, everything required insane amounts of energy and effort to complete, I had issues concentrating, recalling words, etc.. Surely, I thought my issue was Cannabis too. I can say with great confidence that it was not the issue, since I am doing significantly better and my Cannabis usage hasn't changed significantly. Want to know what my issue was all along? I was apparently depressed and burned out as all Hell. My depression has seemed to spontaneously resolve itself -- like it always eventually does. Now, I feel like I am getting a second chance in life.
• pictureofabear 3y ago
  Worst thing about legal marijuana is the smell every. That stuff reeks.
• tetrep 3y ago
  As other comments have noted, just like with other addictions, it is extremely helpful/insightful to be able to see someone "further along" and say "I don't like what I see." I interacted with and heard stories about family alcoholics when I was growing up and that is part of why I'm confident I won't develop a bad relationship with it myself. It's hard to forget what it does not just to the users, but to everyone around them. Similarily, although I didn't see it growing up, as an adult I have seen some pretty hardcore stoners (high all the time), and I do not like the lifestyle that most seem to fall into. It's really easy to notice the cognitive decline when it happens to someone you know. Even if you want to be charitable, people at the very least behave quite differntly when they go from generally sober all the time to generaly stoned all the time. YMMV but I prefer generally sober people versus generally stoned people. I think part of the strong correlation between stoners and legalization movements is because they're (rightfully!) self-interested in improving their own lifestyle, so they'll be the loudest and most experienced advocates. As much as I loathe the "marijuana can do no harm" attitude of some stoners, the still reactionary "omg drugs bad!" people are terrible. Making it illegal makes it so much worse for everyone involved, and you're not going to stop people from being involved with marijuana. More or less the same reasons we need to legalize sex work. It's here, it's always been here, and we need to learn how to cope with this reality in a healthy and safe manner. "Abstinence only" doesn't stop babies from being made any better than it stops people from using drugs. Education is the key (as it so often is).
• tyleo 3y ago
  I was a heavy smoker through college living in a state where I could only buy through dealers. I was hanging out with one of my dealers once when they said, “if I drank as much as I smoked I’d be an alcoholic.” I realized I was an addict at that point but I didn’t think I had a problem. After all, I passed college with good grades and got a good job. I was generally happy and had few bad experiences on marijuana vastly outweighed by good ones. Two things really bothered me though: 1. Any amount of smoking is bad for your lungs and I take my health seriously. 2. I don’t like the idea that a substance of any sort had power over me. I made 2 changes after graduation to get things back under control: 1. I only do edibles except on special occasions like 04-20 or a holiday with friends. So few that I can count the number of times a year on one hand. 2. I only consume marijuana every other month. I now consider myself a joyful consumer of the product because I prefer marijuana to alcohol on nights out with friends. I feel more in control and less tired the following day. Hitting the breaks every other month resets me. It proves to myself I’m still in control and keeps any cravings and tolerance down at a reasonable level. I’m not sure if this will work for anyone else but thought I’d share.
  • blackSnake 3y ago
    To share, a friend of mine has brought some edibles to his doctor and tested positive for small amounts of trace metals. This is from a legitimate dispensary but I imagine they are not really put thru their proper traces when testing for quality control. Its prolly fine once in a blue moon but if you are consuming edibles regularly, it can stack and create worse problems then smoking it. Smoking is a bit more pure in some ways as its only one ingredient VS. who knows how the edibles are made, the process they use, how much it is actually regulated, packaged, etc. Ive had edibles that get me pretty lifted and the next day I'm pretty good and not beat up too bad. Then ill try a different brand and it'll get me just as lifted, but I feel way more sluggish, like it took more out of me. The best I found in terms of taking a toll on your body, is the water-soluble edibles. Those seem to be cleaner. At the very best, cannabis is neutral. You can have positive experiences but you pay a price with your body over time. Its unsustainable if you are looking to follow a trajectory that is positive over time for your physical, spiritual, and mental well-being. If you are looking to have transformative experiences in your life, I dont think cannabis will help. If you are looking to chill, cannabis really works
• chriscappuccio 3y ago
  I found marijuana to be incredibly addictive in my 20s, despite the fact that I only liked 1/3rd of its effects. As I got older I found the undesirable 2/3rd of effects to be overwhelming. This was especially obvious as I improved my health. I eat better and even workout more at 44 than I ever did at 22. Despite a plethora of legal marijuana options now, I have very little desire to use it (or any drugs, I really don't want to interfere too much with my hormones or at all with my dopamine reward system.) If I hadn't taken the path in life that I did, I might instead be desiring or dependent on drugs much stronger than marijuana at age 44. I feel a sense of gratitude for the training that led me away from drugs and a sense of empathy for those who were not encouraged down the same path. I grew up on the Internet from 1991 (including the various archives of alt.drugs) with an intense curiosity for drugs, and also a sense of danger from the stronger ones (in particular opiates and stimulants.) This also left me with the idea that marijuana was both harmless and low-cost, addiction wise. It took me quite a long time to understand the negative effects that it had on me. Chief was excessive eating. I could not work off the amount of food that I could eat while high. The negative effects on my body hormones from carrying this extra weight seemed to be reinforcing to the addiction. It's a crazy ride.
• fredgrott 3y ago
  What you may not be aware of unless you are nootropic stacking The products with Anandamide that enables feedback by binding with CBD receptors are: -dark cacao chocolate, the unsweetened kind -Maca In short words it provokes a runner high...
• darepublic 3y ago
  I have struggled with weed addiction more than once in my life. Picking up coding helped me out of the first bout. Switching to edibles and tapering the dosage helped me out of the second. If I had to take a trip somewhere where I couldn't hav any it was pretty easy to live without it, but I did not have the mental discipline to stop when it was available
• Daub 3y ago
  When addiction is talked about, it is wise to seperate that which is habit forming from that which is psychologically addictive (such as heroin and meth). Too often they are confused with each other. The later gets it's hooks into your chemical biology in a way that can be torture to disengage from. no wonder... the active ingredient of meth is hundreds of times stronger than the natural dopamine it emulates. Regarding TFA, From what I can tell, it does not tell us if Courtney is using natural canabis or a synthetic such as spice. If the later, then a quick walk down the streets of central Glasgow will tell you that it is indeed very addictive, and has been as bad a blight to that area as meth has to Vancouver.
  • the_doctah 3y ago
    >it is wise to seperate that which is habit forming from that which is psychologically addictive (such as heroin and meth) Marijuana is psychologically addictive. Heroin and meth are physically addictive.
    • hirvi74 3y ago
      Aren't all addictions psychological? My understanding is that an addiction develops because self-medication with some substance or activity to mask some sort of psychological stressor underneath the surface. Anecdotal as it may be, I have never met someone with an addiction whose only issue was just being physically dependent on a substance. Although, I might make an exception for tobacco. Most cigarette smokers and dippers I know/knew didn't tend to use tobacco to treat underlying psychological issues. Maybe to lower stress levels overall? Then again, a lot of teens and adults with undiagnosed ADHD tend to use tobacco to self-medicate without actually knowing it (I did this with coffee, thankfully).
      • Daub 3y ago
        > Aren't all addictions psychological? My understanding is that an addiction develops because self-medication with some substance or activity to mask some sort of psychological stressor underneath the surface. I'm sure you are right. But watching someone disengage from a physiological dependency is a different class of experaince. Like watching someone get their arm ripped off. This guy talks from experience from his experience with meth as a multi-addict: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0HtlAlmdxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0HtlAlmdxk Very compelling. In this vid: https://youtu.be/KoVOSmSbPMQ?t=553 https://youtu.be/KoVOSmSbPMQ?t=553 he states that of all the addictions he has had, meth is the one he can never completely loose. If he was alone in a room with it, he states that he would not last 20 minutes before succumbing.
• say_it_as_it_is 3y ago
  There's a scene in the classic stoner movie with young Dave Chapelle speaking about weed addiction at an addicts meeting where Bob Saget's character stands, outraged, belittling him about it because he sucked d*ck for coke. It's a salient point about the addiction. Addiction can be far worse, relatively speaking.
• Dowwie 3y ago
  A lot of people are taking cannabis to help sleep. I've found magnesium glycinate very helpful for sleep. Also, no afternoon caffeine and hydration.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• alexk307 3y ago
  People have been ingesting cannabis habitually since before western society even existed. Anything that makes you feel good can be habit forming, but not everything that’s habit forming is addicting. If a person drinks sodas everyday and struggles to quit are they an addict? Or just coping with boredom and under stimulation? Cannabis is medicine just like every other recreational drug can be, the difference is in the dose and who’s making money off of it.
  • dragonwriter 3y ago
    > If a person drinks sodas everyday and struggles to quit are they an addict? Yes, quite likely. > Cannabis is medicine just like every other recreational drug can be Opiate painkillers are medicine, too. Still, addiction to them is very real. “Medicine” and “addictive” aren't opposed concepts.
    • alexk307 3y ago
      Right that’s what I’m saying. It’s not the drug it’s the user and dosage. Fentanyl is administered during labor at hospitals but it’s obviously a huge problem in Portland and elsewhere. It’s not the cannabis that’s the problem, it’s the dosage and situational usage.
• mock-possum 3y ago
  Which is odd, because - I feel like we all have that friend.
• pyuser583 3y ago
  People confuse legality with “a good idea.” I was surprised how in California you can advertise marijuana. That’s unacceptable. I’m not saying lock people up. But treat it like alcohol or tobacco or something.
• jasonmarks_ 3y ago
  Cannabis is great. Try it after a difficult commit/project to take some of the mental inflammation off.
• jasonmarks_ 3y ago
  Cannabis is great. Try it after a difficult commit/project to take a bit of mental inflammation off
• kolanos 3y ago
  Anyone here experimented with kratom? What was your experience?
• amrx101 3y ago
  Oh boy. And most people dont even recognise porn as addiction and laugh at your face
• lucubratory 3y ago
  I don't really like talking about it anymore, I am 6 years sober and still dealing with related issues every day, but yes I feel like I can't talk openly about it. Skepticism is exactly how I would describe it. It's not strictly stigma, like is the case for most people who talk about drug addiction. It's most often a reaction of surprise, disbelief, and then resentment, like I'm a sleeper agent for reefer madness propaganda that they've just uncovered. Normally when you admit to a previous drug addiction that's had lasting impacts on you, the "bad result" is "Wow, I can't believe you're a druggie". With cannabis it's more like "Wow, I don't believe that that happened actually, weed is safe girl, it cures cancer". It is what it is.
  • neilalexander 3y ago
    I think it's common for people to forget that the substance is not always the addictive part by itself. It's just as easy to become addicted to the side effects, like how it makes you feel or not feel. It seems to compound the judgement problem quite badly. I hope you are doing well.
• parentheses 3y ago
  Marijuana can be challenging to stop, but so can a lot of other things. Daily vitamins come to mind. I used to take a daily combination proposed by my psychiatrist. The days when I didn't, I used to feel like a zombie, was moody and had horrible sleep. The idea that changing a habitual chemical input that has effects on the brain should be painless is a bit unreasonable. I feel the headline is clickbaity but the core fact remains. Changing habits is hard. Especially when that change results in lost sleep or mood swings. That said, I've seen an opiate addict spend a month rapidly detoxing and weed is a piece of cake by comparison.
• INTPenis 3y ago
  What helped me trivialize my cannabis addiction was finding an even worse addiction, sugar. Now that's one I truly fear. Cannabis can be comfortable, it helps me sleep through the entire night without waking up and it makes boring moments fun. But sugar is insane. Sugar will make me go to the store for some made up reason 15 minutes before they close. Sugar will make me raid my pantry for anything I need to make a cake, and then eat the batter. And I can't even say cannabis was a gateway drug to sugar, because I was using my moms credit early to buy candy, or even stealing it from the store. Now almost 40 years of age I'm starting to regret all that sugar in my life. And I still got off relatively easy compared to many others. Probably because I didn't like soda as a kid.
• sourcecodeplz 3y ago
  The "good" thing about cannabis addiction is that the cravings don't last more than a couple of days AND are only psychological.
• root899 3y ago
  Its dangerous, only its a natural plant does not make it harmless. I got a problem with it myself, but i am glad i am away from booze.
• qwerty456127 3y ago
  Marijuana addiction is a kind of addiction where "just stop doing it" is the solution. Physiological addition to marijuana only develops if you smoke waaaay to much every day and easily fades away with just minor headaches taking just a a day or two of withdrawal. The psychological side of addition is a result of unhappy lives of the people and should be addressed by a psychotherapist and/or life coach. I can only speak about actual marijuana though, I know nothing about THC vape pens.
• jowdones 3y ago
  Some people will get addicted to anything, does this mean we should forbid it to everyone? I can't stop jer*ing off for instance, God knows I tried, but after a few days or weeks at most I succumb to temptation. Should society outlaw pe*ises just to make sure noone gets addicted to rubbing them compulsively?
• egberts1 3y ago
  "Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome (CHS) is a condition that leads to repeated and severe bouts of vomiting. It is rare and only occurs in daily long-term users of marijuana. " That is what Cedars-Sinai Research are saying. And it is not rare as they say it is. Some ten people in my old Baltimore neighborhood came down with it. And it has affecting someone I know ... daily for 3 years continuous. Coupled with the how strong the marijuana addiction has been, it is egregious to see how these human beings would check themselves into ER almost weekly; a constructive feedback mechanism is sorely missing within their pre-frontal cortex part of their brain. While hard to quit, a super long hot shower is often the soothing mechanism to recover from extreme abdominal muscular strains after having worshipped the pearly-white porcelain gods; yet, this relief remains but a platitude. It was such a sad feeling to watch them cycle this addiction, over and over ... and over. Rare? ha. https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-conditions/c/cannabinoid-hyperemesis-syndrome.html https://www.cedars-sinai.org/health-library/diseases-and-con...
  • wahnfrieden 3y ago
    Huh, never heard
• sekaniz 3y ago
  I've been smoking weed almost every day for about 10 years now. When people talk about weed addiction I have mixed feelings about it. I've only had good experiences and effects from weed, and it has sincerely helped me a lot, but I would say almost the majority of my friends have not. Most people I know smoke at parties, take way too much, or use it as an escape from an already troublesome life. A close friend is bipolar and has depression, and weed literally destroys his life. Every now and then I get the question if I'm addicted. It's a hard question to say no to when you pretty much are a daily smoker. Sometimes I feel like I can't say no honestly, without stopping smoking entirely for the rest of my life. I have had periods where I haven't smoked, for example when working abroad for several months up to a year, and it's never been an issue. I've never felt an urge or a need to get high. I obviously do see people struggle, and I genuinely feel for those that do, but is also hard to relate when you have never suffered yourself. Even though I smoke myself and it has done so much good for my anxiety, stress, etc, I don't really recommend weed today, just mainly because I've seen so many people struggle with it. I do smoke in low dosages and never understood why people want to get super high, maybe that is a factor as well.
• stillbourne 3y ago
  I learned there is a thing called DIP, or Drug Induced Psychosis. I stopped smoking because of DIP. All my friends seemed evaporate in weeks like a puff of smoke. Quitting pot was probably one of the most depressing times of my life.
• mjfan420 3y ago
  (throwaway because ...reasons) disclaimer: this is just my experience, your mileage might vary and I don't want to seem insensitive to people having a hard time quitting, just share my experience. I've smoked mj for about 20 years and in the past year I stoped once for four months, restarted, and now again, since April. I still think about it sometimes but I don't plan on resuming anytime soon. The hardest part for me is that I now dream at night and I really don't enjoy it. Looking back, I had moments when I was a bit "slow" and a bit distracted. On the other hand, now I'm a bit too tensed and get easily irritated by stuff that previously didn't bother me. My 2 cents: you should try and quit, if you can. If you think you can't, maybe try asking for help. If you don't want to quit, don't quit. ps. I'm just a nobody, on the internet, use your best judgement :)
• jredwards 3y ago
  If anyone is struggling, the reddit forum the article references is r/leaves (a clever play on the marijuana subreddit, r/trees). It's the marijuana equivalent of r/stopdrinking. Both are wonderful, supportive communities that have helped many people.