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"I’ll tell you why I like the cigarette business. It costs a penny to make. Sell it for a dollar. It’s addictive. And there’s fantastic brand loyalty." - Warre
by kingstoned 3y ago
"I’ll tell you why I like the cigarette business. It costs a penny to make. Sell it for a dollar. It’s addictive. And there’s fantastic brand loyalty."
- Warren Buffett
- sebmellen 3y agoThe deification of Buffet is strange to see. A lot of the businesses he invests in are just not net positives for society - cigarettes, Dairy Queen, Coca-Cola, etc.
- SeanAnderson 3y agoice cream isn't a net positive for society? :(
- objektif 3y agoNot really. Coke has a lot of caffeine which makes it a lot more addictive.
- myshpa 3y agoAnd salt to make you consume more, and acids to destroy your teeth, and sugar for health problems or artificial sweeteners to damage your dna, and microplastics ...
- gruez 3y ago>And salt to make you consume more Milk literally has more sodium.
- myshpa 3y agoAnd microplastics too, and sugars, and puss, and blood, pesticides, estrogens ... and? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI
- gruez 3y agoIf a natural product that isn't obviously salty has 3x the sodium, then it's probably not worth worrying about. Besides, it's 3% of DV for a 20oz bottle. You'd have to drink a hilariously high amount for the negative effects of salt to kick in.
- myshpa 3y agoBut i'm not talking about health effects of salt in Coca Cola ... I'm questioning the reason why it's included at all. As you said ... it's not much, you won't even notice it. So the reason it's there is to increase consumption (to keep you thirsty and to tolerate more sugar) and addiction. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/soda-addiction https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/soda-addiction Because soda contains several potentially habit-forming substances like caffeine, sodium, and sugar or artificial sweeteners, it’s easier to become dependent on soda than you might think
- gruez 3y ago>I'm questioning the reason why it's included at all. Because it makes the final product taste better. You can reframe that to mean something nefarious (ie. "it's there is to increase [...] addiction"), but fundamentally it's not any different than you adding salt when you're cooking. >it's not much, you won't even notice it >Because soda contains several potentially habit-forming substances like [...] sodium Let me get this straight. You're claiming that "you won't even notice it" yet it's also "habit-forming"? What's the mechanism by which drinking 0.2g of salt per 20oz bottle gets you addicted?
- myshpa 3y agoThe link I've posted has links to sources for their claim (there are more): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24829986/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24829986/ A Classic Innate Behavior, Sodium Appetite, Is Driven by Hypothalamic Gene-Regulatory Programs Previously Linked to Addiction and Reward https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29673924/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29673924/ Food additives, food and the concept of 'food addiction': Is stimulation of the brain reward circuit by food sufficient to trigger addiction?
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoyep, that's why they put the acids in, to destroy your teeth
- gruez 3y agoAnd not because... it tastes good? What does coca-cola and pepsico have to gain from destroying people's teeth?
- myshpa 3y agoIt's not important why ... just that it does. Coca Cola (etc.) has 2.37-3.10pH, and the acidity is from phosphoric acid. https://www.foodchamps.org/is-coca-cola-acidic/ https://www.foodchamps.org/is-coca-cola-acidic/ "Due to their high sugar and acid content, over-consumption of these drinks is bad for your health and can aggravate symptoms of acid reflux." "It can also cause bones and tooth enamel to erode, creating the perfect conditions for the development of cavities."
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoI mean, yeah, you're right, I was being sarcastic Obviously they don't put it in to destroy your teeth, and despite what the other replier said, it _is_ important why (in reality: better flavor), which is _why_ they went through the effort of falsely attributing why it's done (in fantasy: to destroy teeth) p.s., phosphoric acid is delicious, that's why people like products with it in it. Back in the days of soda fountains, they'd add it in! Now it's mixed into cocktails, sometimes with various other acids (citric, tartaric, etc)
- varjag 3y agoCoke has caffeine content matching that of tea.
- Supermancho 3y agohttps://www.caffeineinformer.com/the-caffeine-database https://www.caffeineinformer.com/the-caffeine-database Often, tea has far more. eg Coke Classic 2.8 to Black Tea 5.2
- objektif 3y agoSo? Tea is also addictive.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- myshpa 3y agoNot when it's made from dairy, and while animal agriculture is one of the most environmentaly damaging industries on Earth, worsening 5 of 7 symptoms of an ecological overshoot. Make it from plants and it's another story, but until then ...
- konfusinomicon 3y agoalso note that it's one if the most delicious businesses on earth and converts otherwise inedible biomass into human food. would the industry that would take its place if it didn't exist be just as polluting to provide all those calories? it may...also no dairy, no pizza. and who would want to live in a reality without pizza?!
- myshpa 3y ago> the most delicious businesses on earth Ben & Jerry makes very tasty vegan ice cream, for example. Cow milk is not a necessity for ice cream, same way as dog milk, rat milk, giraffe milk, hippo milk, or cat milk isn't. What you appreciate is fat content, not some magical taste ingredient from milk. So you could your ice cream from coconut milk or soya milk or hemp milk or almond milk and it would taste good too. > converts otherwise inedible biomass into human food It's also a leading driver of deforestation, one of the biggest polluters (greenhouse gases & eutrophication), responsible for soil erosion and collapsing biodiversity, etc. etc. We could afforest and rewild those pastures and store entire 1.5C carbon budget in those forests (thus stopping climate change and biodiversity loss). > would the industry that would take its place if it didn't exist be just as polluting to provide all those calories Not at all. https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets > no dairy, no pizza. and who would want to live in a reality without pizza Pizza base is vegan. Do you know vegans have cheese, and for some (carnists and vegetarians) it tastes even better than the "real thing"? And as bonus it's sustainable and not destroying the earth for our descendants.
- booleandilemma 3y agoI wouldn't let randos on the internet moralize your diet. There are lots of sad people out there that will criticize people for all sorts of things. If ice cream brings you happiness, eat ice cream :)
- npteljes 3y agoPeople worship all kinds of characters, not just the morally good ones. Morality itself is debatable, and then many just like powerful people who seem to be winning at life, no matter the cost.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoMorality is not debatable. Only immoral people say that morality is debatable.
- slashdev 3y agoMorality is not universal. Different people have different values and thus different morals. There are some things most would agree on (murder=bad) but others that are up for debate. If aliens exist, their values and morals would likely be very alien to us.
- FollowingTheDao 3y agoIf you find the universal truth, you’ll find the universal morality. Just because people don’t share a superficial morality does not mean that there is not a deeper universal one.
- npteljes 3y ago>If you find the universal truth, you’ll find the universal morality I happen to agree with this one. But there is no universal truth either. So if you combine this, you get that universal morality doesn't exist either.
- MrYellowP 3y agoUniversal morality exists. It's called empathy. Morals are being decided and dictated by those who can get most people to agree on something being moral. It's a purely man-made thing that only distracts from what everyone's born with: Actual empathy. Morals are for people who need moral guidelines, because they lack the sense that enables them to feel what another person feels.
- sccfsfrfggfw 3y agoHe doesn’t invest in cigarettes. He did say something stupid about them years ago, particularly when taken out of context. If you think DQ and Coca Cola are bad for society I can see that, but you should also be able to see that plenty of people disagree with your view.
- objektif 3y agoWhat is there to disagree about Coke being bad for people. You may like the taste or not that is debatable.
- myshpa 3y agoCoca Cola is one of the main plastic polluters of our oceans. Thanks to them our oceans look like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1449dou/floating_garbage_arrives_on_the_coastline_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/1449d... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/07/coca-cola-pepsi-and-nestle-named-top-plastic-polluters-for-third-year-in-a-row https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/07/coca-col... Coca-Cola, Pepsi and Nestlé named top plastic polluters for third year in a row Companies accused of “zero progress” on reducing plastic waste, with Coca-Cola ranked No 1 for most littered products https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/11/coca-cola-most-common-littered-brand-on-uk-beaches-says-study-deposit-return-scheme-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/aug/11/coca-cola-m... Coca-Cola most common littered brand on UK beaches, says study
- varjag 3y agoCoca Cola is the best when it comes to drinks, so naturally it's pollution footprint among the biggest. Eliminating Coca Cola tomorrow would just mean shittier soda for humanity, not less pollution.
- myshpa 3y agoLearn to drink water, it takes some time to get used to it and appreciate it, but it's so much better than that <expletive>.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- CelticBard 3y agoSince people worship money, they deify Buffet. Does that make sense to you?
- sn41 3y agoThat's not the entire story. People deify Buffet also because he has a comparatively clean image. The grandparent comment is just mentioning the clean image has its dark spots. (For example, the quote and the implied amorality were new to me.)
- MattGaiser 3y agoI mostly see claims that he is a smart investor, rarely that he is any kind of moral paragon.
- sershe 3y agoLong time ago there was a moment when the best performing stocks in my individual-stock portfolio were PM or maybe MO (cigarettes), DPS (Dr Pepper, it was later acquired), MCD, and AAPL. I joked that it makes sense, the best business is selling good-feeling, harmful crap to the gullible ;) However, there is another side to this... Who are you (not you personally, but anyone) to decide how others should live their lives? If someone wants to drink soda, smoke and eat fast food, why wouldn't they? If selling what people want is somehow bad, then I guess restricting it should be good, so we should just take all these people we have decided are too stupid to know what's good for them, and regiment their life until we are satisfied? As much as I dislike and disagree with their choices, this line of thinking seems abhorrent to me, at most I'd argue we have some say on what they are doing if they use taxpayer-funded healthcare and such, but for me that is an argument against the latter, not the former. And in any case it has no bearing on the morality of the seller - he didn't ask or force anyone other than the buyer to deal with the 2nd order effects. Viewed from that perspective, there's nothing wrong with selling cigarettes.
- Mali- 3y agoI find the amount that this worldview extends in your country to lead to very dire consequences. For example, the personal freedom to own guns. There are tradeoffs in both systems.
- nonethewiser 3y agoThe United States has always had the 2nd amendment but mass shootings are a pretty new phenomena so its wrong to suggest the 2nd amendment is the impetus for that change.
- Mali- 3y agoVery American mindset to assume the only problem one could have with an entire population owning guns is mass shootings. Regular old shootings outway mass shooting deaths by a long way.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
- pessimizer 3y agoDairy Queen has been amazing for society, brought a lot of happiness to a lot of people. Was a place in small towns where people could sit outside eating ice cream and socializing. The only thing bad about Dairy Queen is the quality of the food has dropped over the decades, and there aren't enough of them.
- lotsoweiners 3y ago> The only thing bad about Dairy Queen is the quality of the food has dropped over the decades, and there aren't enough of them. Also, the drive through lines are a bit long during peak hours and I don’t really need to see the employer hold the Blizzard upside down. It’s just dumb theatrics.
- ajkjk 3y agoYeah as a business anyone can see it's good. Yet a net negative for society. The perfect argument for regulation.
- sn41 3y agoHistorically, that about sums up the opium trade run by the British as well. Work Indians to death by indentured slavery, forcing them to give up food crops to grow opium. Sell in China. Costs nothing to make. Sell it for vast sums. It was addictive. (I don't know about brand loyalty, though.)
- hristov 3y agoThis quote is a bit out of context. Warren Buffet said this right after saying that he would not purchase rjr nabisco because it made him morally uncomfortable. Generally berkshire hathaway has not made large equity investments in tobacco companies although they are in warrens sweet spot of famous consumer brand names. On the other hand berkshire hathaway has invested in a lot of companies selling sugar to consumers.
- jeron 3y agonow that aspartame is considered carcinogenic, is it still moral to invest in companies that sell products that contain it?
- netcraft 3y agoThat is still highly debated and the worst part is the dangers of sugar are well known.
- xigency 3y agoProcessed meat is also a known carcinogen. Yogurt and dairy increase risk for breast cancer, but you might find them under a pink label. If you spend any time in California, you’ll notice many carcinogens are around us all the time. Tobacco stands out above others as being a very strong, addicting carcinogen.
- nradov 3y agoThat is not medically accurate. There are some low-quality observational studies which show a weak correlation between cancer rates and subject-reported consumption of certain types of preserved meats. Those studies were mostly junk science with multiple uncontrolled variables. It's specifically the nicotine in tobacco that is somewhat addictive. But nicotine isn't generally considered to be a carcinogen by itself.
- bufferoverflow 3y agoYour argument reminded me of that scene from "Thank you for smoking" Nick Naylor: Oh, this from a Senator who calls Vermont home. Senator Lothridge: I don't follow you, Mr. Naylor. Nick Naylor: Well, the real demonstrated #1 killer in America is cholesterol. And here comes Senator Finistirre whose fine state is, I regret to say, clogging the nation's arteries with Vermont Cheddar Cheese. If we want to talk numbers, how about the millions of people dying of heart attacks? Perhaps Vermont Cheddar should come with a skull and crossbones. Senator Finistirre: That is lu --. The great state of Vermont will not apologize for its cheese! Senator Lothridge: Mr. Naylor, we are here to discuss cigarettes -- not planes, not cars -- cigarettes. Now as we discussed earlier these warning labels are not for those who know but rather for those who don't know. What about the children? Nick Naylor: Gentlemen, it's called education. It doesn't come off the side of a cigarette carton. it comes from our teachers, and more importantly our parents. It is the job of every parent to warn their children of all the dangers of the world, including cigarettes, so that one day when they get older they can choose for themselves. I look at my son who, was kind enough to come with me today, and I can't help but think that I am responsible for his growth and his development. And I'm proud of that.