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Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

140 points by meany 3y ago

monkey_monkey 3y ago
https://archive.is/jUUsw https://archive.is/jUUsw
Spivak 3y ago
Smart to frame it as synthetic alcohol instead of as a drug because the US has decided that substances that make you feel good are tools of the devil. The one that really gets me is pain killers. I had to recover from surgery in the hospital for a few days where I couldn't do anything but lay there and focus on the pain. The only thing they we're allowed to give me was Tramadol which I can only describe as "it doesn't make any of the pain go away, it increases your ability to put up with it." The doctors know it's shit, the nurses know it's shit, they were apologizing constantly about it. We had all the tools available to make me not suffer at all during the experience but think that "getting high" is so terribly evil it's worth suffering for.
- Nursie 3y ago
  Same in the UK where this lot are based. It’s likely to be banned as soon as the active ingredient is revealed IMHO.
- thumbuddy 3y ago
  The war on drugs has done incredible damage to chronically ill, and patients suffering severely. The amount of relief patients could get from debilitating pain was far better in the 1800s than it is today. People often end up rehospitalized or denied care entirely because their pain or anxiety goes unmanaged or because they "might maybe be drug seekers". Our current laws have fast tracked ordinary people to heroin or otherwise dealers. Difficult to imagine that wasn't part of the point of them...
- pharmakom 3y ago
  Substances that make you feel good are for the elite youth when attending Harvard, Yale, Oxford, … not for the regular joe.
- foota 3y ago
  My impression is that this (the difficulty of getting painkillers) was mostly driven by the opioid epidemic, is that wrong?
bluefishinit 3y ago
I love my IPAs but I have to admit that the UK does social beer right. 3% or even 2.5% ales are the way to go if you want to socially drink. We have a concept of a "session" beer in the US, which is lower ABV but the selection of really good, really low gravity beers is the best in the UK as far as I can tell.
- deleted 3y ago
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- eterps 3y ago
  > 3% or even 2.5% ales I am not familiar with those, can someone give some examples of these types of beers?
  - sam_lowry_ 3y ago
    This is close to home-brewed kefir.
    - boomskats 3y ago
      Your joke made me chuckle. I then googled it and realised the kefir I make and drink every morning apparently has 0.5-2% alcohol.
  - flir 3y ago
    I can't, and I'm in the UK. Even UK-brewed Fosters, widely conidered to be flavoured water, is 3.7%.
    - pfannkuchen 3y ago
      Even humans are basically flavored water.
  - bluefishinit 3y ago
    The brown ales can be very low gravity. Usually you get low gravity stuff from a cask. I've had lighter ales that are really low too, but I think they are hard to find. https://learn.kegerator.com/london-brown-ale/ https://learn.kegerator.com/london-brown-ale/
eggy 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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- LeanderK 3y ago
  What's the purpose of live if you won't allow yourself to enjoy it a bit? So yeah, I'll do it, have fun and socialise with my friends. Of course within bounds, we're adults after all. I bet/hope there are less harmful alternatives out there but unfortunately there's not a lot research afaik on different chemicals.
  - eggy 3y ago
    I've actually enjoyed and done much more sober than I ever did during my entire drinking years. But to stay on point, the original article is "Alcolhol without the hangover" - keyword "hangover". A hangover is a symptom you have overdone it, not just a few drinks with friends while socializing. It's more like, "I can't remember what we did after 6 beers and then shots", sort of mentality, and not eating or drinking enough water. That is when you have poisoned yourself. 40% of convicted murderers used alcohol before or during the crime. 70% of all drunk-driving fatalities were with drivers with a blood-alcohol level of 0.15%+.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    Other substances are gaining popularity specifically because people are learning enough about them to have a conversation beyond grade school scare campaigns. People are objectively noticing that they can get a social lubricant without a hangover, without liver damage, without esophageal damage, without lung damage (not an alcohol thing, just a reference to smokers of anything), and that alcohol is more toxic than more tightly regulated drugs. I believe the person you were responding to was pointing that out, while I believe you wrote a false dilemma as nobody here is talking about abstaining from mind altering substances, they find it absurd to try to force making alcohol the substance of choice, given that harm reduction already exists for recreational use of other substances.
hash872 3y ago
Wasn't synthetic alcohol part of the Star Trek mythos? It's been a long time since I've watched TNG but I seem to remember it was part of their world, at one point I have a vague memory of someone handing Picard a bottle of 'real' alcohol and him being amazed- 'this is the real stuff??' he asks? Or something to that effect. Maybe that's what Guinan was always serving at the Enterprise 'bar', synthetic alcohol. (Does Data ingest it? Can he?)
- Auracle 3y ago
  Synthehol. It’s never really fully explained how it affects you other than you can kind of readily shake it off. There are plenty of instances in Star Trek of people drinking the real stuff though. Picard himself had a family winery. I’m guessing he was amazed at a bottle of Romulan Ale, which was illegal in the same way Cuban cigars were here.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    In the show, Romulan Ale is also extremely strong; Worf nurses a hangover from it and says it "should be illegal" and LaForge replies "It is"; while in DS9 several of the human main cast infiltrated a Klingon event and had to take something to avoid dying from drinking so much Blood Wine. (That said, I don't know if it's been canonically stated Blood Wine is ethanol based, so future writers might just decide that's because Blood Wine is based on methanol rather than ethanol, and the ABV is unsurprising…)
- deleted 3y ago
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- thumbuddy 3y ago
  So synthesized ethanol will be the same in every respect as purified naturally sourced ethanol except perhaps down to the balance of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen isotopes. But yes startrek was/awesome regardless.
  - veilrap 3y ago
    I’m pretty sure “Synthol” in Star Trek is more of a synthetic alcohol alternative of unspecified chemical composition, rather than just synthetic alcohol.
1ba9115454 3y ago
I've switched to alcohol free beers. They're a bit sweeter but for me it's fine.
- eatonphil 3y ago
  Likewise! I'm trying not to drink much anymore. But I always want something cold and fizzy. So it's a switch between refrigerated carafes of water, seltzer, and zero-alcohol beers. Although I feel incentivized not to have even the zero-alcohol beers since it's still 60 calories. While the seltzers I find are 0. Any beer recommendations? I haven't tried much outside of the locally-supplied zero-alcohol Heineken and Corona.
  - defphysics 3y ago
    My favorite is Run Wild from Athletic Brewing Co.
  - gniv 3y ago
    > Any beer recommendations? Where? In eastern US, Athletic Brewing makes really good hoppy ales. The ones from Brooklyn Brewery are good too, but a bit heavy for my taste. In continental Europe, Germany has a large selection of lagers, good but not great. Clausthaler is an example. Also, I like the Czech beer Staropramen.
  - cota 3y ago
    Asahi Dry Zero has 0 alcohol, 0 calories.
  - archi42 3y ago
    The Bitburger NA with the blue branding is good. Don't be fooled if you don't like the normal Bitburger, imho their NA is much better :P OTOH, if you happen to like Bitburger, they also have a newer "dry NA" variant with green branding, that tastes much more like their alcoholic beer. No idea about international availability, but at least a slight chance. For wheat beer, the bigger German what beer breweries offer a NA variant these days, and those are quite good. I'm thinking of Erdinger and Paulaner, which are probably your best bet internationally. Don't tell anyone I know, but my secret recommendation however is Öttinger NA wheat beer. Those are cheap and taste very good (fellow Germans: If you don't believe me, do a blind tasting). But don't ever the mistake of buying or even drinking their normal Pilsner/Export beer - those taste like pi... ;-) If you're ever in Germany, is "Mönchshof Radler Alkoholfrei". Radler is "shandy", a mixture of beer and lemonade. I've yet to meet anyone who likes beer but not this.
andrewl 3y ago
It looks interesting. There’s a good bit of information, and marketing, of course, at gabalabs.com.
SomeRndName11 3y ago
Alcohol is the most boring psychoactive substance ever, even Benadryl is more fun. I really do not understand those who enjoy the experience.
- popularrecluse 3y ago
  cool
- dragonmost 3y ago
  Am I wrong? No it's the other people that are wrong
- pr0zac 3y ago
  You shouldn't assume the effects you get match those of other people. People experience different effects because of differences in brain/body chemistry and genetics. People that get "asian flush" for instance process alcohol in a way that results in more toxic metabolites thus making alcohol literally more poisonous and less enjoyable for them. Holds true for other substances as well. My brother absolutely loves weed and finds it relaxing but I cannot use even a small amount without crippling levels of anxiety. Meanwhile anything that works on GABA (alcohol included) completely removes anxiety for me in a way that's so enjoyable I have to be careful with the whole class of substances. Because of a genetic quirk modafinil has little to no effect if I take it but I use prescribed amphetamines 3-5 days a week. Human bodies are complicated!
  - SomeRndName11 3y ago
    Precisely. Most people "enjoy" alcohol because it is socially accepted drug, but for many people so many other substances would be a lot more enjoyable, without collateral damage of alcohol for society. Alcohol is a poor choice for recreational drug for many, for the exceptions those who likes depressants.
    - anthony_d 3y ago
      Sounds like you didn’t actually read the comment you’re responding to. Any chance you work in politics?
bratgpttamer 3y ago
I read something a while back where the owner/CEO/VP/Head Brewer of Sam Adams, who was expected to go to certain beer/brewing events and basically have a beer with each vendor, would eat a packet of yeast beforehand. He claimed it allowed him to make his rounds and sample everyone's beer without getting drunk/hungover.
- distortionfield 3y ago
  Whoa, I had never heard of this before but there seems to be something to this. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/10/327854051/alcohol-test-does-eating-yeast-keep-you-from-getting-drunk https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/10/327854051/al...
  - jrmg 3y ago
    The article at that link seems to show there’s _not_ something to it - it doesn’t work.
- thumbuddy 3y ago
  I can't imagine a mechanism where that's plausible, but it wouldn't be the first time I felt that way and was shown something surprising. He probably just built up a tolerance.
- danwilkerson 3y ago
  Sadly, debunked: https://www.mashed.com/439154/can-eating-yeast-really-prevent-a-hangover/#:~:text=%22It%20mitigates%20the%20effect%20of,wasn't%20really%20a%20difference https://www.mashed.com/439154/can-eating-yeast-really-preven....
- yuppie_scum 3y ago
  I used to see Jim Koch at those events and he’d be pretty lit up.
- znpy 3y ago
  That doesn’t really make sense. Yeasts consume sugars and emit alcohol and co2 ad byproducts. They can’t process alcohol and too much alcohol kills the yeasts. If anything, eating yeasts should make things worse, as yeasts might have a chance to digest some sugars and produce more alcohol (unlikely to happen, if you ask me)
rdn 3y ago
Looks like a rebranding of GHB
- chasebank 3y ago
  I think you're right. I've always wondered why they don't water down GHB to be the equivalent of a low ABV drink. The only scary thing about GHB is its relative potency to volume. It's honestly a wonderful drug.
  - GordonS 3y ago
    Didn't David Nutt suggest this several years back? I seem to recall hearing he was really trying to make a go of it too.
    - pstuart 3y ago
      Yes, but I think the rebranding of GHB as "the date rape drug" did not help promoting it. I tried it once but didn't feel anything -- it would be nice to give it another go.
  - rdn 3y ago
    It is a pretty nice alternative to alcohol, and since their name is GABA Labs, and GHB can be synthesized from GABA, I assume they will be selling some analog or even rebranding and packaging GHB properly for consumption.
  - BrianHenryIE 3y ago
    I presume it's down to the "therapeutic index" (how close a fun dose is to a dangerous dose) (although alcohol is much the same). I agree it is a nice drug but one friend of mine did have his family stage an intervention because of his abuse of it.
  - tsol 3y ago
    It's very addictive and can cause a strong dependence/withdrawal, thats why it's rarely used
spacemadness 3y ago
The more interesting thing here to me is the nasal spray that can supposedly help alcoholics want to drink less. That could help a lot of people stay sober-ish if it’s effective, albeit there is a psychological component to just wanting to enter oblivion that it might not be effective for. Out of curiosity I tried the hangover cure on Nootropics Depot and found it to not really help at all. Not drinking helps the most so I stick with that normally these days.
yawnbox 3y ago
Acetaldehyde (from consuming alcoholic beverages)(1) is a Group 1 carcinogen, along with things like Asbestos. Does it fix that? [1] https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-cancer-risk/known-and-probable-human-carcinogens.html https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-...
- zaphod420 3y ago
  I've been taking zbiotic before drinking. It's a probiotic that eats the Acetaldehyde. It works surprisingly well!
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  Yes and... This is not ambiguous: There is no safe amount that does not affect health.[1] "We cannot talk about a so-called safe level of alcohol use. It doesn’t matter how much you drink – the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage. The only thing that we can say for sure is that the more you drink, the more harmful it is – or, in other words, the less you drink, the safer it is," It is possible that a totally sober and mentally healthy person can determine that the benefits of alcohol counterbalance the health risks. I've heard a dozen meandering explanations here and they all boil down to "I like it and it seems to be helping my life more than hurting it." That seems reasonable. However not everyone has the same risk profile, or even the same moral grounding, so demonstrating to others that there are few relative risks to alcohol consumption or not (based on your personal threat model) biases the threat models of others. It helps nothing to continue to reject some of the strongest correlations we have and risks imbuing incorrect epistemic biases to others via demonstration. Accept the fact that you are taking a risk instead of trying to brush off the scientific consensus and be vocal about the risks given the fact that this literature is not accessible to most people. [1]https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-...
  - maxerickson 3y ago
    In an absolute sense, it also isn't safe to take a sip of water.
OJFord 3y ago
The (main) problem with alcohol-free 'beer'/'wine'/etc. isn't the lack of drunkenness feeling? Especially beer has improved a lot but it's not there yet, I don't see how developing synthetic 'alcohol' will help when we still can't remove, or make the drink without causing, real alcohol? As for hormone shots to treat an already acquired hangover... It seems niche/less than ideal - I don't think many people would want that as a regular expected thing, 'I am going to drink heavily and then take a hormone shot in the morning' sort of thing? And isn't it a solved ('banana bag') problem? Or is it the idea that you could buy injectable hormones for home use whereas you can't (and probably shouldn't want to) self-cannulate at home, and that's the only way(?) banana bags can work (because it takes more than reasonably fits in a syringe? Needs to be administered at a more gradual flow?)? Personally I hope we find a way to remove alcohol without impacting taste at all, and then you can buy either version of the same drinks. I'd probably still get both, I do acknowledge the alcohol plays some role in me enjoying the drinks, but I can imagine having say an alcoholic pint or two, then alcohol-free. Or an alcoholic gin & tonic followed by AF wine. But until it's as good...
- mcronce 3y ago
  > The (main) problem with alcohol-free 'beer'/'wine'/etc. isn't the lack of drunkenness feeling? That depends on your goals. I like to catch a buzz once in a while but the majority of the time I'm drinking is because I really love the flavor of my favorite cocktails and the quality would be very poor as mocktails. Using a Mai Tai as an example, of I could get a couple 0ABV rums, I could sub clarified orange juice for the orange liqueur and probably have something pretty good with no booze in it. I'd be quite happy with that.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    Exactly, re-reading I think my phrasing (or rather use of question mark) was ambiguous but that's exactly what I mean, the problem isn't the lack of 'buzz', it's the taste not being as good.
- jebarker 3y ago
  I'm not a chemist, so this may be false, but I've heard it's almost impossible to make NA drinks that are very similar to the real thing. The reason I heard is that whilst ethanol has no flavor itself it does enable/carry (whatever that means) interactions between other chemicals meaning there are flavors present that will never be there without ethanol. Would love to know if that's actually true...
sourcecodeplz 3y ago
The hangover is an essential part of drinking. It's what stops you from starting all over again the next day / week.
- rjh29 3y ago
  Until you realise that alcohol actually cures hangover symptoms. Not great!
  - dbbk 3y ago
    Hair of the dog is a myth
    - rjh29 3y ago
      Not if you never stop drinking!
      - xcdzvyn 3y ago
        Drink enough to wake up the next day still drunk and you're all good :)
funkychicken 3y ago
I love the idea of the nasal naltrexone. Naltrexone has been known for years to reduce the number of drinks consumed (by blocking opioid receptors). I wish we could figure out a better system for accessing medications like this — like perhaps allowing pharmacists to prescribe low risk medicines in more states.
PedroBatista 3y ago
Oh great, I'm sure this will end as well as the pain pills from Purdue.. There is a sizable minority of people who don't have a "governor" when it comes to drinking, we call them alcoholics. Then there is a big group of people who have some moderation, but part of that "moderation" are the hangovers and by the late 20's they start to hurt much more than consecutive nights of boozing can offer. Let's hope this is yet another pseudo-science piece to fluff some careers and little more, otherwise I'm guessing it could in the early 80's again when coke "was fun and gave you energy to do more even at work".. ( not the company line, but the general feeling in the streets )
- ttul 3y ago
  David Nutt is an esteemed scientist. He previously chaired the UK’s Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs. He is “ David Nutt is a Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians, Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Academy of Medical Sciences.” Source: Wikipedia
Gud 3y ago
Or better yet, legalize a wide range of drugs, slap some warning stickers on them. Like the Nutriscore you see in many countries, where an A rating won’t be too bad for you(green tea) and an F rating will lead to certain death(Fentanyl)
deleted 3y ago
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nunez 3y ago
Pacing my drinks (sip every ten minutes; bigger drink of water between sips) and Pedialyte or Gatorade Zero after drinking if I've had a lot is the only system that works for me. I'm 36 and haven't had a serious hangover[0] in a very long time. As an added bonus, since I drink way slower when doing this, I can enjoy my drinks more and pay less for fewer drinks. Additionally, because I drink fewer drinks when I go out, I'm much more selective about what I drink, which means I'll opt for higher quality stuff or a good NA if no good options are available. YMMV of course. [0] I define "serious hangover" as "unable to get out of bed; serious nausea; serious brain fog." The worst hangover I've had since doing this is mild brain fog that recovers after a few hours.
andrewstuart 3y ago
A hangover is primarily dehydration. Just drink alot of water during your drinking session or before bed.
- thehappypm 3y ago
  It’s a lot if things, but also a buildup of acetaldehyde, which is really nasty.
Animats 3y ago
That's GABA Labs.[1] They've been working on this for years. They have a product, called "Sentia". It's plant-based and "natural", which avoids some regulatory problems. Their better product is an entirely synthetic molecule. It's self-limiting. It's said to produce a pleasant buzz, but more of it won't produce drunkenness. You can buy Sentia. It's insanely expensive.[2] [1] https://gabalabs.com/ https://gabalabs.com/ [2] https://sentiaspirits.com/collections/non-alcoholic-spirits https://sentiaspirits.com/collections/non-alcoholic-spirits
- wincy 3y ago
  It’s less expensive than a good quality whiskey. Honestly I might try some. 50cl == 500ml, so a liter for £54 doesn’t strike me as even “very expensive”, unless I’ve made some major metric maths error.
jdjdjdjdjd 3y ago
I have discovered that for me personally, taking magnesium before, during or shortly after having drinks greatly reduces hangovers. I typically get really strong headaches the day after from 2-3 drinks. If I take a 100mg magnesium supplement it is massively reduced. Alcohol depletes magnesium from your body so I guess it counters that.
- consumer451 3y ago
  I have the exact same personal anecdote. That and also one glass of water per drink.
- Frost1x 3y ago
  I just hydrate and take a multivitamin when I do plan on drinking a bit. And drink lots of water after.
  - zgluck 3y ago
    Drinking lots of water before going to bed works really well - when you remember doing that...
    - amelius 3y ago
      +1 yes, this is the most important trick.
    - IanCal 3y ago
      In my university days I advocated for a tactical sandwich. Something easy to eat, probably salty like a blt and with a glass of water - had at the time you feel you transition from drunk to hungover (that's what makes it tactical). I'd make it before going out, and set an alarm for 3-5 in the morning. The alarm wakes you up, you inhale the food and drink and fall asleep immediately. Made (in my detailed scientific studies) a big difference. Drinking less would have been the much more sensible option.
    - ipqk 3y ago
      This is what I do. The trade off is that I wake up every 1-2 hours having to pee, and thus get a poor night's sleep. But better than being hungover.
boomskats 3y ago
I've had a subscription to David Nutt's Sentia Spirits [0] for a few months, which uses an extract from GABA Labs. I enjoy the mild effect and I do think they're onto something, but I have to mix it as it tastes a bit soapy (that's the red, I've yet to try sentia black). I like the idea that the subscription to Sentia funds the development of Alcarelle (the product mentioned in the article), but the overwhelming reason I subscribe to it is just to support Professor David Nutt[0]. He is a true scientist with true integrity and will be remembered as being on the right side of history. The way he was treated by the UK government at the hands of big booze is an absolute tragedy. [0]: https://sentiaspirits.com/ https://sentiaspirits.com/ [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt
- rcarr 3y ago
  I also bought a few bottles of the red about 18/19 months back. I found that it tasted quite nice when it was mixed with orange juice if I remember right. It did have a very mild relaxing effect but it needed to be stronger, in the end I couldn't justify the price for what it was. I do hope they crack the code though and get something a bit closer to alcohol. And I agree about Nutt, absolute travesty that the government/UK media basically forced him out after his report.
- jrflowers 3y ago
  I like how the FAQ has many, many different wordings of “What is in this?” and “How does this work?” with absolutely no information in response to them. It is good to not to have to worry about what is in a thing I’m ingesting or how or if it works at all.
  - predictabl3 3y ago
    Yeah, four or five clicks and my BS meter is off the charts. Not even so much as a hint as to a keyword to Google for more research. :/ But also, I'm rather intrigued and am doing some more looking now... EDIT: I can't even tell what the difference between Sentia Red and Black are. I can't tell if one of them actually contains Alcarelle (Which is hard to research since that's GABA Labs' former name). Folks, this is not how you do it.
thoughtegting 3y ago
Some DHM (Dihydromyricetin) before heading out for drinks does the trick for me every time
miduil 3y ago
I've been three+ years sober, really can recommend. Life is much different now, things that used to be fun aren't anymore - but I'm making strong connections nevertheless.
- mentos 3y ago
  Waking up early on a Saturday without a hangover is what I look forward to. I’ll just sit in bed and revel in it now ha
  - SavageBeast 3y ago
    For my own personal experience, the worst part about drinking regularly - and I mean nightly if we're being at all honest - seems to be the people you meet. Having cut down drastically and switched from Volume Drinking kind of venues to Boutique Cocktail Venues I find I'm spending my time around a smaller, higher quality group of people while at the same time drinking less and enjoying my few drinks much more. [EDIT] I suppose in hanging out with drunks every evening, it normalized the idea of being drunk every night. What I was doing seemed normal because everyone I hung out with was doing the same thing. Thats a good way to start a bad habit.
    - theteapot 3y ago
      [flagged]
- thisgoesnowhere 3y ago
  I think we are overcorrecting to the extremes. You don't have to be sober or crippling drunk you can have a drink once in a while and it's fine.
  - shaunxcode 3y ago
    It’s also ok to be completely sober. In general if someone tells you they are sober it’s not a great idea to suggest they have a drink on occasion.
electrondood 3y ago
500mg NAC before drinking, then a pint of water + fish oil + B vitamin complex before bed = zero hangover.
Nihilartikel 3y ago
Reading about this venture to make anf popularize GABA tickling drug without the self limiting ill effects is worrying in the long term. Such things exist, and sure, one is fine.. but one a day for a week and then you are heading for an undescribably hellish withdrawal. I had a brief dalliance with Phenibut for anxiety self medication. It targets GABA receptors, and boy does it work. But read about it in the forums and then you'll find the horror stories of people trying to quit, or running out and having months of nightmares and shakes and paranoia. I noped out of that in time, thankfully.
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  Also used to enjoy Phenibut quite a bit. Felt a bit like Alcohol without the "stupid". Although the onset time wasn't the best to handle and there was huge difference whether I took it on empty stomach in the morning or at some point later in the day. Haven't done it for a while though. Sleep was also amazing. Easy to fall asleep and so sweet. Definitely shouldn't use very frequently like you said. Best to leave at least 2 weeks inbetween. I had periods of using it every day.
- archi42 3y ago
  This is also what surprises me: No hangover and no liver damage are great, but doesn't say anything about physiological or psychological addiction. Especially since the lack of any short-term negative feedback loop (alcohol poisoning, vomiting, or at least a hangover) makes forming problematic consumption patterns much more likely. OTOH, "one a day for a week" is very unspecific: Is that the equivalent of drinking a six-pack or two every day, alone; or gathering with friends to taste a literal sip (e.g. 5ml) of spirit? Do they act equally (not only in strength but also in decay and other factors - maybe the medicament has a booster or some chemical delay). Is there a selection bias among people who (self-)medicate, do they have traits or common environmental factors that make negative outcomes more likely? I don't want to overly defend this, since in my usual peer-group bringing that stuff to a gathering would feel a lot like "let's do drugs together!" (only few gatherings involve drinking any amount of alcohol) and I personally don't want to figure out empirically that instead of a hangover this triggers even a light depression (or worse) - but the comparison still seems a bit simplistic to me.
darkmarmot 3y ago
We could replace alcohol with GHB. Done.
- martinald 3y ago
  GHB is horrendously addictive and has absolutely brutal withdrawal symptoms. It's drastically worse than alcohol in those two senses. Plus overdoing it even marginally (as in taking 50-100% more than the "recommended" dose) results in you going into a complete coma, which can happen with alcohol but more like 5-10x.
xmddmx 3y ago
[flagged]
- chromatin 3y ago
  This is incorrect and dangerous advice. Ethanol metabolism consumes S-glutathione, of which you have limited stores, and which is resynthesized over time. Acetaminophen is metabolized to a toxic metabolite, NAPQI, which can be eliminated by glutathione conjugation via gluthione-S-transferases. When glutathione stores are depleted, for example due to alcohol consumption or acetaminophen overdose, NAPQI builds up and causes direct liver injury and cellular death: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2836803/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2836803/ As it relates to alcohol, the combination is also dangerous because alcohol's metabolic byproduct acetaldehyde also builds up and causes cellular damage in the absence of sufficient glutathione (which soliloquizes it for urinary excretion)
predictabl3 3y ago
Random, but this makes me wonder about Gabapentin. I had a family member take it and apparently acted very erratically, and reports online indicate that it might have similar effects as those boasted by these new drinks. Can any of the (armchair) pharmacologists shine any light for me? Thanks! I googled some, but I think I'm too inexperienced to even have a foothold to know where to start for researching or really even knowing what I need to understand to guess at this.
thesz 3y ago
My personal trainer once told me that athletes that become alcoholics belong to either endurance sports of various kinds or to archer or pistol shooting. The shooting sportsmen use small amounts of alcohol to reduce tremor [1], and small amounts of alcohol became bigger with time. [1] https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jhe1972/14/2/14_2_99/_pdf https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jhe1972/14/2/14_2_99/_p... The situation in endurance sports is very different. Very elevated count of mitochondria in cells of endurances athletes make their whole body a liver, basically - these mitochondria organelles get rid of alcohol metabolites during sleep very effectively. Top level endurance athlete drinks to heart content and does not experience a hangover the next day. It is all good and well for some time, athlete can drink everything for a long time, until he has his body physiologically depend on the alcohol, now this endurance athlete is an alcoholic. I saw an example of alcoholic former endurance athlete once in my life. It was not pretty. He drank anything he can find (or what he brought in) and sleep the work day throughout, delivering nothing.
- mvkel 3y ago
  Elite endurance athlete here. I definitely experience hangovers on the rare occasion that I drink. That said, was just on a cycling trip where one of the riders drank two bottles of wine to himself and was flying the next day. Might it be something about high vo2, not just "being an endurance athlete"?
  - thesz 3y ago
    I don't know. The guy I was talking about was Master of Sports (Russian) in skiing. It requires being at least 40th at the nation level. i have other anecdotes that supports theory that endurance training helps with alcohol metabolism.
    - mvkel 3y ago
      > Russian Say no more :)
    - tjr225 3y ago
      [dead]
momirlan 3y ago
and still, a hangover is the mildest effect of alcohol. impaired driving will give one a much stronger headache.
victorbstan 3y ago
Lol pretty sure your liver is still going to die.
kmbfjr 3y ago
How about without the liver disease?
meindnoch 3y ago
Just drink and/or huff ether. Same effect, shorter duration, no hangover.
CommanderData 3y ago
Don't all types of alcohol damage cells, so a type that has no apparent after effects but the 'high' per se would cause people to consume even more. Why is this a good thing? Andrew Huberman did a pretty in depth podcast covering many things alcohol does to the body, masking it's apparent Ill effects can't be a good thing.
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  I thought the same thing, the hangover is a major deterrent for me. If that is taken away I think people are just going to drink much more and make themselves sicker.
alexalx666 3y ago
I only have hangover after drinking wine or hard alcohol like whiskey, is this normal?
- jplona 3y ago
  Could be hydration related. Lower ABV drinks contain more water relative to the amount of alcohol you're drinking.
kleiba 3y ago
Alcohol without the hangover? What an invention! Scientists are working on this. I mean, other scientists devote their lives to fighting cancer, AIDS, heart disease. These guys go, "No, I'm focusing on hangovers. Oh, sure, thousands of people are dying needlessly, but this, ptooey. That's gotta stop. You ever try and watch football the next day? It's almost impossible. I'm devoting my life to that."
- jshen 3y ago
  Most breakthroughs come from serendipitous discoveries. It’s counter productive to be critical in this way.
- Barrin92 3y ago
  it seems to have become fashionable to think that all life is about is avoiding to die and in the process avoiding any sort of risk or fun whatsoever, but I'm personally glad that a few scientists are still concerned with improving the actual living part. So to any scientists out there who can help me have a fun night out without feeling like a zombie next morning, as far as I'm concerned they're a genius. much more useful to me than people who seem to obsessed to make me die at 85 instead of 82 hooked up to a dozen machines
- larrysalibra 3y ago
  Ha! Nice riff on Seinfeld’s seedless watermelon bit! https://youtu.be/ZB39jT0qq3Y https://youtu.be/ZB39jT0qq3Y
  - kleiba 3y ago
    Geez, thanks! I was starting to think that I was the only one over 40 around here...
01100011 3y ago
There are many other alcohols, 2M2B(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Amyl_alcohol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Amyl_alcohol) for example, which are "alcohol without the hangover" in a sense. I seem to remember a scientist looking into ways to deliver these alcohols(absorbed in cellulose IIRC). You'll note that these chemicals, like alcohol, can also lead to overdoses and since they are much more potent it is even more difficult to ensure one does not overconsume. I suspect that is why they have never been sold commercially for recreational consumption. Of course, you will likely always get some after effects from any mind altering substance as you brain returns to normal, but alcohols which do not metabolize to acetaldehyde are going to result in much less suffering the following day or two. I was somewhat fascinated by other alcohols for quite a while. A microbrewery I used to frequent had some abnormally potent brews despite being around 6%. By potent, I mean that my friends who would normally split a 36 pack of Coors lite between the two of them would be heavily buzzed after a pint or two. A little research led me to discover that fermented beverages are a complex cocktail of chemicals, many of which are psychoactive. Some of those chemicals can actually interfere with a simple alcohol measurement based on specific gravity, so you could be under-stating the ethanol content while also producing a brew with higher levels of mind-altering substances. Here is one such substance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophol When yeast are nutritionally stressed, they will often excrete amino acids and other chemicals with alcoholic functional groups attached. By tailoring the nutritional profile of the wort, you can select for higher or lower levels of these mind altering substances. I suspect it has something to do with how some beverages, notably cider(very poor nutrition for yeast) can give me a hangover before I even manage to fall asleep. In any case, it's fascinating that you can setup a brewery and crank out mind altering chemicals and be largely unregulated beyond the amounts of ethanol(and maybe methanol) in your products.
- ramraj07 3y ago
  I hope you can see that your friends are alcoholics. Drinking 18 of any alcoholic drink shouldn't be considered normal as much as the surroundings might indicate otherwise.
  - serf 3y ago
xyzelement 3y ago
Not a big drinker but I find that I have a hangover from wine (sulfites?) and beer (carb overload?) but not tequila or mezcal. If I want to have a celebratory drink with dinner, mezcal is the no-regret-tomorrow choice at least for me. Plus being well hydrated.
wittyusername 3y ago
ZBiotics is a really exciting biotech startup that makes a GMO probiotic that digests Acetaldehyde, a byproduct of alcohol consumption that is a large part of hangovers. Personally think they reduce the effect of drinking by about 40%. www.Zbiotics.com
manicennui 3y ago
I rarely drink anymore. Edibles are superior in every way.
jimmydef 3y ago
As someone with severe Asian flush, with an overactive ADH gene (gene that converts of alcohol to acetaldehyde) and 2 defective ALDH2 alleles (gene that breaks down acetaldehyde into harmless byproducts), I wish there is a way to repair these genes using MRNA. I don't feel even the mildest buzz from alcohol but I instantly get a hangover when I drink.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  mRNA injections won't do it. You'd need a CRISPR for that. And someway to get the rest of your body to take up the cells with the new genes, and you're a little late for most of your cells. I think you're better off searching for non-alcoholic alternatives in the short-medium term.
jokowueu 3y ago
Dr David butt has been persuing alcohol replacements for a while not but he was forced to redo many substitutes because of the difficulty to aquiring them . His earlier substitutes were much more fascinating compared to what he has selected now
Moldoteck 3y ago
I've never understood how ppl get drunk with low alcohol drinks (beer/wine/something similar). After 1 beer I'm literally full, I feel my belly full and just can't push more
jokowueu 3y ago
GHB could have been perfect if it wasn't so good , the dosage between a perfect buzz and blacking out is too thin
sacnoradhq 3y ago
Just about the time I left university, the supplement "cure" RU-21 was touted as eliminating the hangover. The gotcha was dosing prior to drinking and dosing with each drink.
porkbeer 3y ago
Be aware many of these synthetics being sold now just break down into GHB. Thats why the websites selling them are so cagey on how they work. It is technically an illegal precursor.

140 points by meany 3y ago

https://archive.is/jUUsw https://archive.is/jUUsw

Smart to frame it as synthetic alcohol instead of as a drug because the US has decided that substances that make you feel good are tools of the devil. The one that really gets me is pain killers. I had to recover from surgery in the hospital for a few days where I couldn't do anything but lay there and focus on the pain. The only thing they we're allowed to give me was Tramadol which I can only describe as "it doesn't make any of the pain go away, it increases your ability to put up with it." The doctors know it's shit, the nurses know it's shit, they were apologizing constantly about it. We had all the tools available to make me not suffer at all during the experience but think that "getting high" is so terribly evil it's worth suffering for.

Nursie 3y ago
Same in the UK where this lot are based. It’s likely to be banned as soon as the active ingredient is revealed IMHO.
thumbuddy 3y ago
The war on drugs has done incredible damage to chronically ill, and patients suffering severely. The amount of relief patients could get from debilitating pain was far better in the 1800s than it is today. People often end up rehospitalized or denied care entirely because their pain or anxiety goes unmanaged or because they "might maybe be drug seekers". Our current laws have fast tracked ordinary people to heroin or otherwise dealers. Difficult to imagine that wasn't part of the point of them...
pharmakom 3y ago
Substances that make you feel good are for the elite youth when attending Harvard, Yale, Oxford, … not for the regular joe.
foota 3y ago
My impression is that this (the difficulty of getting painkillers) was mostly driven by the opioid epidemic, is that wrong?

bluefishinit 3y ago

I love my IPAs but I have to admit that the UK does social beer right. 3% or even 2.5% ales are the way to go if you want to socially drink. We have a concept of a "session" beer in the US, which is lower ABV but the selection of really good, really low gravity beers is the best in the UK as far as I can tell.

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eterps 3y ago
> 3% or even 2.5% ales I am not familiar with those, can someone give some examples of these types of beers?
- sam_lowry_ 3y ago
  This is close to home-brewed kefir.
  - boomskats 3y ago
    Your joke made me chuckle. I then googled it and realised the kefir I make and drink every morning apparently has 0.5-2% alcohol.
- flir 3y ago
  I can't, and I'm in the UK. Even UK-brewed Fosters, widely conidered to be flavoured water, is 3.7%.
  - pfannkuchen 3y ago
    Even humans are basically flavored water.
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  The brown ales can be very low gravity. Usually you get low gravity stuff from a cask. I've had lighter ales that are really low too, but I think they are hard to find. https://learn.kegerator.com/london-brown-ale/ https://learn.kegerator.com/london-brown-ale/

eggy 3y ago

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LeanderK 3y ago
What's the purpose of live if you won't allow yourself to enjoy it a bit? So yeah, I'll do it, have fun and socialise with my friends. Of course within bounds, we're adults after all. I bet/hope there are less harmful alternatives out there but unfortunately there's not a lot research afaik on different chemicals.
- eggy 3y ago
  I've actually enjoyed and done much more sober than I ever did during my entire drinking years. But to stay on point, the original article is "Alcolhol without the hangover" - keyword "hangover". A hangover is a symptom you have overdone it, not just a few drinks with friends while socializing. It's more like, "I can't remember what we did after 6 beers and then shots", sort of mentality, and not eating or drinking enough water. That is when you have poisoned yourself. 40% of convicted murderers used alcohol before or during the crime. 70% of all drunk-driving fatalities were with drivers with a blood-alcohol level of 0.15%+.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  Other substances are gaining popularity specifically because people are learning enough about them to have a conversation beyond grade school scare campaigns. People are objectively noticing that they can get a social lubricant without a hangover, without liver damage, without esophageal damage, without lung damage (not an alcohol thing, just a reference to smokers of anything), and that alcohol is more toxic than more tightly regulated drugs. I believe the person you were responding to was pointing that out, while I believe you wrote a false dilemma as nobody here is talking about abstaining from mind altering substances, they find it absurd to try to force making alcohol the substance of choice, given that harm reduction already exists for recreational use of other substances.

hash872 3y ago

Wasn't synthetic alcohol part of the Star Trek mythos? It's been a long time since I've watched TNG but I seem to remember it was part of their world, at one point I have a vague memory of someone handing Picard a bottle of 'real' alcohol and him being amazed- 'this is the real stuff??' he asks? Or something to that effect. Maybe that's what Guinan was always serving at the Enterprise 'bar', synthetic alcohol. (Does Data ingest it? Can he?)

Auracle 3y ago
Synthehol. It’s never really fully explained how it affects you other than you can kind of readily shake it off. There are plenty of instances in Star Trek of people drinking the real stuff though. Picard himself had a family winery. I’m guessing he was amazed at a bottle of Romulan Ale, which was illegal in the same way Cuban cigars were here.
- ben_w 3y ago
  In the show, Romulan Ale is also extremely strong; Worf nurses a hangover from it and says it "should be illegal" and LaForge replies "It is"; while in DS9 several of the human main cast infiltrated a Klingon event and had to take something to avoid dying from drinking so much Blood Wine. (That said, I don't know if it's been canonically stated Blood Wine is ethanol based, so future writers might just decide that's because Blood Wine is based on methanol rather than ethanol, and the ABV is unsurprising…)
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thumbuddy 3y ago
So synthesized ethanol will be the same in every respect as purified naturally sourced ethanol except perhaps down to the balance of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen isotopes. But yes startrek was/awesome regardless.
- veilrap 3y ago
  I’m pretty sure “Synthol” in Star Trek is more of a synthetic alcohol alternative of unspecified chemical composition, rather than just synthetic alcohol.

1ba9115454 3y ago

I've switched to alcohol free beers. They're a bit sweeter but for me it's fine.

eatonphil 3y ago
Likewise! I'm trying not to drink much anymore. But I always want something cold and fizzy. So it's a switch between refrigerated carafes of water, seltzer, and zero-alcohol beers. Although I feel incentivized not to have even the zero-alcohol beers since it's still 60 calories. While the seltzers I find are 0. Any beer recommendations? I haven't tried much outside of the locally-supplied zero-alcohol Heineken and Corona.
- defphysics 3y ago
  My favorite is Run Wild from Athletic Brewing Co.
- gniv 3y ago
  > Any beer recommendations? Where? In eastern US, Athletic Brewing makes really good hoppy ales. The ones from Brooklyn Brewery are good too, but a bit heavy for my taste. In continental Europe, Germany has a large selection of lagers, good but not great. Clausthaler is an example. Also, I like the Czech beer Staropramen.
- cota 3y ago
  Asahi Dry Zero has 0 alcohol, 0 calories.
- archi42 3y ago
  The Bitburger NA with the blue branding is good. Don't be fooled if you don't like the normal Bitburger, imho their NA is much better :P OTOH, if you happen to like Bitburger, they also have a newer "dry NA" variant with green branding, that tastes much more like their alcoholic beer. No idea about international availability, but at least a slight chance. For wheat beer, the bigger German what beer breweries offer a NA variant these days, and those are quite good. I'm thinking of Erdinger and Paulaner, which are probably your best bet internationally. Don't tell anyone I know, but my secret recommendation however is Öttinger NA wheat beer. Those are cheap and taste very good (fellow Germans: If you don't believe me, do a blind tasting). But don't ever the mistake of buying or even drinking their normal Pilsner/Export beer - those taste like pi... ;-) If you're ever in Germany, is "Mönchshof Radler Alkoholfrei". Radler is "shandy", a mixture of beer and lemonade. I've yet to meet anyone who likes beer but not this.

andrewl 3y ago

It looks interesting. There’s a good bit of information, and marketing, of course, at gabalabs.com.

SomeRndName11 3y ago

Alcohol is the most boring psychoactive substance ever, even Benadryl is more fun. I really do not understand those who enjoy the experience.

popularrecluse 3y ago
cool
dragonmost 3y ago
Am I wrong? No it's the other people that are wrong
pr0zac 3y ago
You shouldn't assume the effects you get match those of other people. People experience different effects because of differences in brain/body chemistry and genetics. People that get "asian flush" for instance process alcohol in a way that results in more toxic metabolites thus making alcohol literally more poisonous and less enjoyable for them. Holds true for other substances as well. My brother absolutely loves weed and finds it relaxing but I cannot use even a small amount without crippling levels of anxiety. Meanwhile anything that works on GABA (alcohol included) completely removes anxiety for me in a way that's so enjoyable I have to be careful with the whole class of substances. Because of a genetic quirk modafinil has little to no effect if I take it but I use prescribed amphetamines 3-5 days a week. Human bodies are complicated!
- SomeRndName11 3y ago
  Precisely. Most people "enjoy" alcohol because it is socially accepted drug, but for many people so many other substances would be a lot more enjoyable, without collateral damage of alcohol for society. Alcohol is a poor choice for recreational drug for many, for the exceptions those who likes depressants.
  - anthony_d 3y ago
    Sounds like you didn’t actually read the comment you’re responding to. Any chance you work in politics?

bratgpttamer 3y ago

I read something a while back where the owner/CEO/VP/Head Brewer of Sam Adams, who was expected to go to certain beer/brewing events and basically have a beer with each vendor, would eat a packet of yeast beforehand. He claimed it allowed him to make his rounds and sample everyone's beer without getting drunk/hungover.

distortionfield 3y ago
Whoa, I had never heard of this before but there seems to be something to this. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/10/327854051/alcohol-test-does-eating-yeast-keep-you-from-getting-drunk https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/07/10/327854051/al...
- jrmg 3y ago
  The article at that link seems to show there’s _not_ something to it - it doesn’t work.
thumbuddy 3y ago
I can't imagine a mechanism where that's plausible, but it wouldn't be the first time I felt that way and was shown something surprising. He probably just built up a tolerance.
danwilkerson 3y ago
Sadly, debunked: https://www.mashed.com/439154/can-eating-yeast-really-prevent-a-hangover/#:~:text=%22It%20mitigates%20the%20effect%20of,wasn't%20really%20a%20difference https://www.mashed.com/439154/can-eating-yeast-really-preven....
yuppie_scum 3y ago
I used to see Jim Koch at those events and he’d be pretty lit up.
znpy 3y ago
That doesn’t really make sense. Yeasts consume sugars and emit alcohol and co2 ad byproducts. They can’t process alcohol and too much alcohol kills the yeasts. If anything, eating yeasts should make things worse, as yeasts might have a chance to digest some sugars and produce more alcohol (unlikely to happen, if you ask me)

rdn 3y ago

Looks like a rebranding of GHB

chasebank 3y ago
I think you're right. I've always wondered why they don't water down GHB to be the equivalent of a low ABV drink. The only scary thing about GHB is its relative potency to volume. It's honestly a wonderful drug.
- GordonS 3y ago
  Didn't David Nutt suggest this several years back? I seem to recall hearing he was really trying to make a go of it too.
  - pstuart 3y ago
    Yes, but I think the rebranding of GHB as "the date rape drug" did not help promoting it. I tried it once but didn't feel anything -- it would be nice to give it another go.
- rdn 3y ago
  It is a pretty nice alternative to alcohol, and since their name is GABA Labs, and GHB can be synthesized from GABA, I assume they will be selling some analog or even rebranding and packaging GHB properly for consumption.
- BrianHenryIE 3y ago
  I presume it's down to the "therapeutic index" (how close a fun dose is to a dangerous dose) (although alcohol is much the same). I agree it is a nice drug but one friend of mine did have his family stage an intervention because of his abuse of it.
- tsol 3y ago
  It's very addictive and can cause a strong dependence/withdrawal, thats why it's rarely used

spacemadness 3y ago

The more interesting thing here to me is the nasal spray that can supposedly help alcoholics want to drink less. That could help a lot of people stay sober-ish if it’s effective, albeit there is a psychological component to just wanting to enter oblivion that it might not be effective for. Out of curiosity I tried the hangover cure on Nootropics Depot and found it to not really help at all. Not drinking helps the most so I stick with that normally these days.

yawnbox 3y ago

Acetaldehyde (from consuming alcoholic beverages)(1) is a Group 1 carcinogen, along with things like Asbestos. Does it fix that? [1] https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-cancer-risk/known-and-probable-human-carcinogens.html https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/understanding-...

zaphod420 3y ago
I've been taking zbiotic before drinking. It's a probiotic that eats the Acetaldehyde. It works surprisingly well!
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
Yes and... This is not ambiguous: There is no safe amount that does not affect health.[1] "We cannot talk about a so-called safe level of alcohol use. It doesn’t matter how much you drink – the risk to the drinker’s health starts from the first drop of any alcoholic beverage. The only thing that we can say for sure is that the more you drink, the more harmful it is – or, in other words, the less you drink, the safer it is," It is possible that a totally sober and mentally healthy person can determine that the benefits of alcohol counterbalance the health risks. I've heard a dozen meandering explanations here and they all boil down to "I like it and it seems to be helping my life more than hurting it." That seems reasonable. However not everyone has the same risk profile, or even the same moral grounding, so demonstrating to others that there are few relative risks to alcohol consumption or not (based on your personal threat model) biases the threat models of others. It helps nothing to continue to reject some of the strongest correlations we have and risks imbuing incorrect epistemic biases to others via demonstration. Accept the fact that you are taking a risk instead of trying to brush off the scientific consensus and be vocal about the risks given the fact that this literature is not accessible to most people. [1]https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-alcohol-consumption-is-safe-for-our-health https://www.who.int/europe/news/item/04-01-2023-no-level-of-...
- maxerickson 3y ago
  In an absolute sense, it also isn't safe to take a sip of water.

OJFord 3y ago

The (main) problem with alcohol-free 'beer'/'wine'/etc. isn't the lack of drunkenness feeling? Especially beer has improved a lot but it's not there yet, I don't see how developing synthetic 'alcohol' will help when we still can't remove, or make the drink without causing, real alcohol? As for hormone shots to treat an already acquired hangover... It seems niche/less than ideal - I don't think many people would want that as a regular expected thing, 'I am going to drink heavily and then take a hormone shot in the morning' sort of thing? And isn't it a solved ('banana bag') problem? Or is it the idea that you could buy injectable hormones for home use whereas you can't (and probably shouldn't want to) self-cannulate at home, and that's the only way(?) banana bags can work (because it takes more than reasonably fits in a syringe? Needs to be administered at a more gradual flow?)? Personally I hope we find a way to remove alcohol without impacting taste at all, and then you can buy either version of the same drinks. I'd probably still get both, I do acknowledge the alcohol plays some role in me enjoying the drinks, but I can imagine having say an alcoholic pint or two, then alcohol-free. Or an alcoholic gin & tonic followed by AF wine. But until it's as good...

mcronce 3y ago
> The (main) problem with alcohol-free 'beer'/'wine'/etc. isn't the lack of drunkenness feeling? That depends on your goals. I like to catch a buzz once in a while but the majority of the time I'm drinking is because I really love the flavor of my favorite cocktails and the quality would be very poor as mocktails. Using a Mai Tai as an example, of I could get a couple 0ABV rums, I could sub clarified orange juice for the orange liqueur and probably have something pretty good with no booze in it. I'd be quite happy with that.
- OJFord 3y ago
  Exactly, re-reading I think my phrasing (or rather use of question mark) was ambiguous but that's exactly what I mean, the problem isn't the lack of 'buzz', it's the taste not being as good.
jebarker 3y ago
I'm not a chemist, so this may be false, but I've heard it's almost impossible to make NA drinks that are very similar to the real thing. The reason I heard is that whilst ethanol has no flavor itself it does enable/carry (whatever that means) interactions between other chemicals meaning there are flavors present that will never be there without ethanol. Would love to know if that's actually true...

sourcecodeplz 3y ago

The hangover is an essential part of drinking. It's what stops you from starting all over again the next day / week.

rjh29 3y ago
Until you realise that alcohol actually cures hangover symptoms. Not great!
- dbbk 3y ago
  Hair of the dog is a myth
  - rjh29 3y ago
    Not if you never stop drinking!
    - xcdzvyn 3y ago
      Drink enough to wake up the next day still drunk and you're all good :)

funkychicken 3y ago

I love the idea of the nasal naltrexone. Naltrexone has been known for years to reduce the number of drinks consumed (by blocking opioid receptors). I wish we could figure out a better system for accessing medications like this — like perhaps allowing pharmacists to prescribe low risk medicines in more states.

PedroBatista 3y ago

Oh great, I'm sure this will end as well as the pain pills from Purdue.. There is a sizable minority of people who don't have a "governor" when it comes to drinking, we call them alcoholics. Then there is a big group of people who have some moderation, but part of that "moderation" are the hangovers and by the late 20's they start to hurt much more than consecutive nights of boozing can offer. Let's hope this is yet another pseudo-science piece to fluff some careers and little more, otherwise I'm guessing it could in the early 80's again when coke "was fun and gave you energy to do more even at work".. ( not the company line, but the general feeling in the streets )

ttul 3y ago
David Nutt is an esteemed scientist. He previously chaired the UK’s Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs. He is “ David Nutt is a Fellow of the Royal College of Physicians, Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Academy of Medical Sciences.” Source: Wikipedia

Gud 3y ago

Or better yet, legalize a wide range of drugs, slap some warning stickers on them. Like the Nutriscore you see in many countries, where an A rating won’t be too bad for you(green tea) and an F rating will lead to certain death(Fentanyl)

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nunez 3y ago

Pacing my drinks (sip every ten minutes; bigger drink of water between sips) and Pedialyte or Gatorade Zero after drinking if I've had a lot is the only system that works for me. I'm 36 and haven't had a serious hangover[0] in a very long time. As an added bonus, since I drink way slower when doing this, I can enjoy my drinks more and pay less for fewer drinks. Additionally, because I drink fewer drinks when I go out, I'm much more selective about what I drink, which means I'll opt for higher quality stuff or a good NA if no good options are available. YMMV of course. [0] I define "serious hangover" as "unable to get out of bed; serious nausea; serious brain fog." The worst hangover I've had since doing this is mild brain fog that recovers after a few hours.

andrewstuart 3y ago

A hangover is primarily dehydration. Just drink alot of water during your drinking session or before bed.

thehappypm 3y ago
It’s a lot if things, but also a buildup of acetaldehyde, which is really nasty.

Animats 3y ago

That's GABA Labs.[1] They've been working on this for years. They have a product, called "Sentia". It's plant-based and "natural", which avoids some regulatory problems. Their better product is an entirely synthetic molecule. It's self-limiting. It's said to produce a pleasant buzz, but more of it won't produce drunkenness. You can buy Sentia. It's insanely expensive.[2] [1] https://gabalabs.com/ https://gabalabs.com/ [2] https://sentiaspirits.com/collections/non-alcoholic-spirits https://sentiaspirits.com/collections/non-alcoholic-spirits

wincy 3y ago
It’s less expensive than a good quality whiskey. Honestly I might try some. 50cl == 500ml, so a liter for £54 doesn’t strike me as even “very expensive”, unless I’ve made some major metric maths error.

jdjdjdjdjd 3y ago

I have discovered that for me personally, taking magnesium before, during or shortly after having drinks greatly reduces hangovers. I typically get really strong headaches the day after from 2-3 drinks. If I take a 100mg magnesium supplement it is massively reduced. Alcohol depletes magnesium from your body so I guess it counters that.

consumer451 3y ago
I have the exact same personal anecdote. That and also one glass of water per drink.
Frost1x 3y ago
I just hydrate and take a multivitamin when I do plan on drinking a bit. And drink lots of water after.
- zgluck 3y ago
  Drinking lots of water before going to bed works really well - when you remember doing that...
  - amelius 3y ago
    +1 yes, this is the most important trick.
  - IanCal 3y ago
    In my university days I advocated for a tactical sandwich. Something easy to eat, probably salty like a blt and with a glass of water - had at the time you feel you transition from drunk to hungover (that's what makes it tactical). I'd make it before going out, and set an alarm for 3-5 in the morning. The alarm wakes you up, you inhale the food and drink and fall asleep immediately. Made (in my detailed scientific studies) a big difference. Drinking less would have been the much more sensible option.
  - ipqk 3y ago
    This is what I do. The trade off is that I wake up every 1-2 hours having to pee, and thus get a poor night's sleep. But better than being hungover.

boomskats 3y ago

I've had a subscription to David Nutt's Sentia Spirits [0] for a few months, which uses an extract from GABA Labs. I enjoy the mild effect and I do think they're onto something, but I have to mix it as it tastes a bit soapy (that's the red, I've yet to try sentia black). I like the idea that the subscription to Sentia funds the development of Alcarelle (the product mentioned in the article), but the overwhelming reason I subscribe to it is just to support Professor David Nutt[0]. He is a true scientist with true integrity and will be remembered as being on the right side of history. The way he was treated by the UK government at the hands of big booze is an absolute tragedy. [0]: https://sentiaspirits.com/ https://sentiaspirits.com/ [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt

rcarr 3y ago
I also bought a few bottles of the red about 18/19 months back. I found that it tasted quite nice when it was mixed with orange juice if I remember right. It did have a very mild relaxing effect but it needed to be stronger, in the end I couldn't justify the price for what it was. I do hope they crack the code though and get something a bit closer to alcohol. And I agree about Nutt, absolute travesty that the government/UK media basically forced him out after his report.
jrflowers 3y ago
I like how the FAQ has many, many different wordings of “What is in this?” and “How does this work?” with absolutely no information in response to them. It is good to not to have to worry about what is in a thing I’m ingesting or how or if it works at all.
- predictabl3 3y ago
  Yeah, four or five clicks and my BS meter is off the charts. Not even so much as a hint as to a keyword to Google for more research. :/ But also, I'm rather intrigued and am doing some more looking now... EDIT: I can't even tell what the difference between Sentia Red and Black are. I can't tell if one of them actually contains Alcarelle (Which is hard to research since that's GABA Labs' former name). Folks, this is not how you do it.

thoughtegting 3y ago

Some DHM (Dihydromyricetin) before heading out for drinks does the trick for me every time

miduil 3y ago

I've been three+ years sober, really can recommend. Life is much different now, things that used to be fun aren't anymore - but I'm making strong connections nevertheless.

mentos 3y ago
Waking up early on a Saturday without a hangover is what I look forward to. I’ll just sit in bed and revel in it now ha
- SavageBeast 3y ago
  For my own personal experience, the worst part about drinking regularly - and I mean nightly if we're being at all honest - seems to be the people you meet. Having cut down drastically and switched from Volume Drinking kind of venues to Boutique Cocktail Venues I find I'm spending my time around a smaller, higher quality group of people while at the same time drinking less and enjoying my few drinks much more. [EDIT] I suppose in hanging out with drunks every evening, it normalized the idea of being drunk every night. What I was doing seemed normal because everyone I hung out with was doing the same thing. Thats a good way to start a bad habit.
  - theteapot 3y ago
    [flagged]
thisgoesnowhere 3y ago
I think we are overcorrecting to the extremes. You don't have to be sober or crippling drunk you can have a drink once in a while and it's fine.
- shaunxcode 3y ago
  It’s also ok to be completely sober. In general if someone tells you they are sober it’s not a great idea to suggest they have a drink on occasion.

electrondood 3y ago

500mg NAC before drinking, then a pint of water + fish oil + B vitamin complex before bed = zero hangover.

Nihilartikel 3y ago

Reading about this venture to make anf popularize GABA tickling drug without the self limiting ill effects is worrying in the long term. Such things exist, and sure, one is fine.. but one a day for a week and then you are heading for an undescribably hellish withdrawal. I had a brief dalliance with Phenibut for anxiety self medication. It targets GABA receptors, and boy does it work. But read about it in the forums and then you'll find the horror stories of people trying to quit, or running out and having months of nightmares and shakes and paranoia. I noped out of that in time, thankfully.

mewpmewp2 3y ago
Also used to enjoy Phenibut quite a bit. Felt a bit like Alcohol without the "stupid". Although the onset time wasn't the best to handle and there was huge difference whether I took it on empty stomach in the morning or at some point later in the day. Haven't done it for a while though. Sleep was also amazing. Easy to fall asleep and so sweet. Definitely shouldn't use very frequently like you said. Best to leave at least 2 weeks inbetween. I had periods of using it every day.
archi42 3y ago
This is also what surprises me: No hangover and no liver damage are great, but doesn't say anything about physiological or psychological addiction. Especially since the lack of any short-term negative feedback loop (alcohol poisoning, vomiting, or at least a hangover) makes forming problematic consumption patterns much more likely. OTOH, "one a day for a week" is very unspecific: Is that the equivalent of drinking a six-pack or two every day, alone; or gathering with friends to taste a literal sip (e.g. 5ml) of spirit? Do they act equally (not only in strength but also in decay and other factors - maybe the medicament has a booster or some chemical delay). Is there a selection bias among people who (self-)medicate, do they have traits or common environmental factors that make negative outcomes more likely? I don't want to overly defend this, since in my usual peer-group bringing that stuff to a gathering would feel a lot like "let's do drugs together!" (only few gatherings involve drinking any amount of alcohol) and I personally don't want to figure out empirically that instead of a hangover this triggers even a light depression (or worse) - but the comparison still seems a bit simplistic to me.

darkmarmot 3y ago

We could replace alcohol with GHB. Done.

martinald 3y ago
GHB is horrendously addictive and has absolutely brutal withdrawal symptoms. It's drastically worse than alcohol in those two senses. Plus overdoing it even marginally (as in taking 50-100% more than the "recommended" dose) results in you going into a complete coma, which can happen with alcohol but more like 5-10x.

xmddmx 3y ago

[flagged]

chromatin 3y ago
This is incorrect and dangerous advice. Ethanol metabolism consumes S-glutathione, of which you have limited stores, and which is resynthesized over time. Acetaminophen is metabolized to a toxic metabolite, NAPQI, which can be eliminated by glutathione conjugation via gluthione-S-transferases. When glutathione stores are depleted, for example due to alcohol consumption or acetaminophen overdose, NAPQI builds up and causes direct liver injury and cellular death: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2836803/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2836803/ As it relates to alcohol, the combination is also dangerous because alcohol's metabolic byproduct acetaldehyde also builds up and causes cellular damage in the absence of sufficient glutathione (which soliloquizes it for urinary excretion)

predictabl3 3y ago

Random, but this makes me wonder about Gabapentin. I had a family member take it and apparently acted very erratically, and reports online indicate that it might have similar effects as those boasted by these new drinks. Can any of the (armchair) pharmacologists shine any light for me? Thanks! I googled some, but I think I'm too inexperienced to even have a foothold to know where to start for researching or really even knowing what I need to understand to guess at this.

thesz 3y ago

My personal trainer once told me that athletes that become alcoholics belong to either endurance sports of various kinds or to archer or pistol shooting. The shooting sportsmen use small amounts of alcohol to reduce tremor [1], and small amounts of alcohol became bigger with time. [1] https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jhe1972/14/2/14_2_99/_pdf https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jhe1972/14/2/14_2_99/_p... The situation in endurance sports is very different. Very elevated count of mitochondria in cells of endurances athletes make their whole body a liver, basically - these mitochondria organelles get rid of alcohol metabolites during sleep very effectively. Top level endurance athlete drinks to heart content and does not experience a hangover the next day. It is all good and well for some time, athlete can drink everything for a long time, until he has his body physiologically depend on the alcohol, now this endurance athlete is an alcoholic. I saw an example of alcoholic former endurance athlete once in my life. It was not pretty. He drank anything he can find (or what he brought in) and sleep the work day throughout, delivering nothing.

mvkel 3y ago
Elite endurance athlete here. I definitely experience hangovers on the rare occasion that I drink. That said, was just on a cycling trip where one of the riders drank two bottles of wine to himself and was flying the next day. Might it be something about high vo2, not just "being an endurance athlete"?
- thesz 3y ago
  I don't know. The guy I was talking about was Master of Sports (Russian) in skiing. It requires being at least 40th at the nation level. i have other anecdotes that supports theory that endurance training helps with alcohol metabolism.
  - mvkel 3y ago
    > Russian Say no more :)
  - tjr225 3y ago
    [dead]

momirlan 3y ago

and still, a hangover is the mildest effect of alcohol. impaired driving will give one a much stronger headache.

victorbstan 3y ago

Lol pretty sure your liver is still going to die.

kmbfjr 3y ago

How about without the liver disease?

meindnoch 3y ago

Just drink and/or huff ether. Same effect, shorter duration, no hangover.

CommanderData 3y ago

Don't all types of alcohol damage cells, so a type that has no apparent after effects but the 'high' per se would cause people to consume even more. Why is this a good thing? Andrew Huberman did a pretty in depth podcast covering many things alcohol does to the body, masking it's apparent Ill effects can't be a good thing.

ChatGTP 3y ago
I thought the same thing, the hangover is a major deterrent for me. If that is taken away I think people are just going to drink much more and make themselves sicker.

alexalx666 3y ago

I only have hangover after drinking wine or hard alcohol like whiskey, is this normal?

jplona 3y ago
Could be hydration related. Lower ABV drinks contain more water relative to the amount of alcohol you're drinking.

kleiba 3y ago

Alcohol without the hangover? What an invention! Scientists are working on this. I mean, other scientists devote their lives to fighting cancer, AIDS, heart disease. These guys go, "No, I'm focusing on hangovers. Oh, sure, thousands of people are dying needlessly, but this, ptooey. That's gotta stop. You ever try and watch football the next day? It's almost impossible. I'm devoting my life to that."

jshen 3y ago
Most breakthroughs come from serendipitous discoveries. It’s counter productive to be critical in this way.
Barrin92 3y ago
it seems to have become fashionable to think that all life is about is avoiding to die and in the process avoiding any sort of risk or fun whatsoever, but I'm personally glad that a few scientists are still concerned with improving the actual living part. So to any scientists out there who can help me have a fun night out without feeling like a zombie next morning, as far as I'm concerned they're a genius. much more useful to me than people who seem to obsessed to make me die at 85 instead of 82 hooked up to a dozen machines
larrysalibra 3y ago
Ha! Nice riff on Seinfeld’s seedless watermelon bit! https://youtu.be/ZB39jT0qq3Y https://youtu.be/ZB39jT0qq3Y
- kleiba 3y ago
  Geez, thanks! I was starting to think that I was the only one over 40 around here...

01100011 3y ago

There are many other alcohols, 2M2B(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Amyl_alcohol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Amyl_alcohol) for example, which are "alcohol without the hangover" in a sense. I seem to remember a scientist looking into ways to deliver these alcohols(absorbed in cellulose IIRC). You'll note that these chemicals, like alcohol, can also lead to overdoses and since they are much more potent it is even more difficult to ensure one does not overconsume. I suspect that is why they have never been sold commercially for recreational consumption. Of course, you will likely always get some after effects from any mind altering substance as you brain returns to normal, but alcohols which do not metabolize to acetaldehyde are going to result in much less suffering the following day or two. I was somewhat fascinated by other alcohols for quite a while. A microbrewery I used to frequent had some abnormally potent brews despite being around 6%. By potent, I mean that my friends who would normally split a 36 pack of Coors lite between the two of them would be heavily buzzed after a pint or two. A little research led me to discover that fermented beverages are a complex cocktail of chemicals, many of which are psychoactive. Some of those chemicals can actually interfere with a simple alcohol measurement based on specific gravity, so you could be under-stating the ethanol content while also producing a brew with higher levels of mind-altering substances. Here is one such substance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophol When yeast are nutritionally stressed, they will often excrete amino acids and other chemicals with alcoholic functional groups attached. By tailoring the nutritional profile of the wort, you can select for higher or lower levels of these mind altering substances. I suspect it has something to do with how some beverages, notably cider(very poor nutrition for yeast) can give me a hangover before I even manage to fall asleep. In any case, it's fascinating that you can setup a brewery and crank out mind altering chemicals and be largely unregulated beyond the amounts of ethanol(and maybe methanol) in your products.

ramraj07 3y ago
I hope you can see that your friends are alcoholics. Drinking 18 of any alcoholic drink shouldn't be considered normal as much as the surroundings might indicate otherwise.
- serf 3y ago

xyzelement 3y ago

Not a big drinker but I find that I have a hangover from wine (sulfites?) and beer (carb overload?) but not tequila or mezcal. If I want to have a celebratory drink with dinner, mezcal is the no-regret-tomorrow choice at least for me. Plus being well hydrated.

wittyusername 3y ago

ZBiotics is a really exciting biotech startup that makes a GMO probiotic that digests Acetaldehyde, a byproduct of alcohol consumption that is a large part of hangovers. Personally think they reduce the effect of drinking by about 40%. www.Zbiotics.com

manicennui 3y ago

I rarely drink anymore. Edibles are superior in every way.

jimmydef 3y ago

As someone with severe Asian flush, with an overactive ADH gene (gene that converts of alcohol to acetaldehyde) and 2 defective ALDH2 alleles (gene that breaks down acetaldehyde into harmless byproducts), I wish there is a way to repair these genes using MRNA. I don't feel even the mildest buzz from alcohol but I instantly get a hangover when I drink.

Scoundreller 3y ago
mRNA injections won't do it. You'd need a CRISPR for that. And someway to get the rest of your body to take up the cells with the new genes, and you're a little late for most of your cells. I think you're better off searching for non-alcoholic alternatives in the short-medium term.

jokowueu 3y ago

Dr David butt has been persuing alcohol replacements for a while not but he was forced to redo many substitutes because of the difficulty to aquiring them . His earlier substitutes were much more fascinating compared to what he has selected now

Moldoteck 3y ago

I've never understood how ppl get drunk with low alcohol drinks (beer/wine/something similar). After 1 beer I'm literally full, I feel my belly full and just can't push more

jokowueu 3y ago

GHB could have been perfect if it wasn't so good , the dosage between a perfect buzz and blacking out is too thin

sacnoradhq 3y ago

Just about the time I left university, the supplement "cure" RU-21 was touted as eliminating the hangover. The gotcha was dosing prior to drinking and dosing with each drink.

porkbeer 3y ago

Be aware many of these synthetics being sold now just break down into GHB. Thats why the websites selling them are so cagey on how they work. It is technically an illegal precursor.