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The ad-based internet is dying, and it's getting worse in the process [video]

205 points by rglullis 3y ago

LetFree 3y ago
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gnicholas 3y ago
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constantly 3y ago
I hope I won’t be faulted for not “reading” the OP, but it’s a 17 minute video. I watched a little, but I don’t understand the thesis. It does seem ironic though that on a video about the ad-based internet dying, there are several ads in the page, the video maker in the first segment has a lengthy ad where he praises whatever he is advertising, probably VPN stuff, there is a bunch of begging for paid subscribers in the summary, and comments in the comment section from third party ad spammers directing people to what appears to be MLMs.
- RajT88 3y ago
  I look forward to a future where these videos can get auto-transcribed (accurately) so I don't have to watch the damn video.
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
    I have been incredibly impressed with whisper.cpp. A bit of legwork to transcribe a youtube video, but the results are very accurate.
    - crubier 3y ago
      Do you have an end to end tool that integrates whisper to translate Youtube videos? Share! (Or make us pay for it lol)
  - kelvinjps10 3y ago
    The language learning extensions do that. Like language reactor
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    YouTube has pretty decent transcriptions with timestamps, especially for channels that bother implementing actual subtitles. They're hidden by default and not searchable on every platform, but they're excellent for skipping to the important parts. Independent websites need to get working on something similar. Whisper is pretty good but extremely CPU intensive, but there are lower cost implementations with acceptable transcriptions out there. I usually watch the introduction and then skip to the 66% mark, those seem to be the places the actual interesting information is stored on YouTube and its competitors.
  - liminalsunset 3y ago
    YouTube can be used with youtubetranscript.com (free) which will turn a video into a clickable transcript that takes you to the corresponding section of the video when clicked to see the corresponding visuals. It uses the Google auto transcription so not sure about whether the accuracy will be acceptable for you.
mschuster91 3y ago
It's gotta be ironic that the most recent comment on a video about ads is some spam advertising a get-rich-quick scheme. The sad fact is that there still seem to be more than enough utterly braindead marks on the Internet that fall for these scams and thus make the spam campaigns, scare ads and other crap "worth the effort".
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > The sad fact is that there still seem to be more than enough utterly braindead marks on the Internet that fall for these scams Defense is a game of resource exhaustion. Even security experts get tired/drunk/overwhelmed and make errors in judgment. I almost fell for a recent phishing exercise myself. A growing number of these "utterly braindead marks" are people like your own parents and grandparents, whose brains are in fact degrading. Meanwhile the threats continue to evolve and new vectors arise. It's like applying for jobs. The more scammers try, the higher the chances an attempt will eventually succeed. PSA: Expecting an inheritance? Keep your parents out of trouble or you'll never see it. The power-of-attorney scam is alive and well.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    > Defense is a game of resource exhaustion. Even security experts get tired/drunk/overwhelmed and make errors in judgment. I almost fell for a recent phishing exercise myself. It's also a game of numbers. I once did fall for a phishing exercise, because by pure coincidence, the email looked perfectly legitimate in context of my unusual, specific and temporary circumstances. There were some minor red flags, but I missed those as I got the email while waiting in the airport. Basically, a one in a million lottery win. Fortunately, it was a company exercise, so all I lost was a bit of self-esteem and a lot of self-confidence. But that's the thing: when you can send a message like this to a couple million people for approximately $0, then "one in a million chance" turns into a guaranteed win.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  > The sad fact is that there still seem to be more than enough utterly braindead marks on the Internet that fall for these scams and thus make the spam campaigns, scare ads and other crap "worth the effort". And that despite the size of Google, modern advancements in technology such as large processing power, AI and LLMs, all the tracking and anti-abuse mechanisms (that often misfire and ban legitimate accounts with no recourse), this shit still manages to get through while being super obvious. We used to filter this crap out on forums back in the good old days with much more primitive tools (regexes and basic keyword matching + queuing for moderator's manual approval), but Google wants us to believe they can't while in reality they just don't care because they're not liable, have a monopoly and those spammers still contribute towards "engagement".
gleenn 3y ago
His two examples are Twitter and Reddit whose ad revenue is dying because those two companies have made huge blunders. Elon seems to almost actively be killing Twitter (which the poster even states). Reddit screwed Apollo and then many of the most popular subreddits protested and did things like show porn on otherwise usually SFW content to prevent Reddit from showing ads and thus killing their profits. Those are big sites, but those are definitely attributable to other obvious confounding factors. I would definitely argue they should be the first data points thrown out in asking "is the ad biz on the internet dying?". I do think ads have gotten worse but I definitely don't think it's going anywhere for a long long time. Way too many companies have built their whole revenue model around them. And companies may spend less to post ads but they definitely still will because there really aren't that many alternatives.
- woooooo 3y ago
  I recently googled some random topic (drag race engines I think) and got some fairly-decent article from 5 years ago that satisfied my curiosity. The website was actively user-hostile. Multiple things popping up all over the place, the works. Is there any other destiny for content like that? Long since written, but owned and served. Why not enshittify as much as possible, one performance review cycle at a time?
  - soared 3y ago
    Interesting thought that for content where no competition exists, the owner can maximize profit by drowning it in ads. Doesn’t seem like there is much of an alternative outside of legislation or action from google to enforce stricter ad standards(like how pop ups got killed)
- LakeBoat 3y ago
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- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > His two examples are Twitter and Reddit whose ad revenue is dying because those two companies have made huge blunders. Even worse - they never had good ad revenue. If ad revenue model is dying it would suggest companies like facebook and google see ad revenue dying.
Karunamon 3y ago
Same video from YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTLj-xcqGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTLj-xcqGM (I have no particular love for YouTube but at least sponsorblock works there!)
baron816 3y ago
I think we really need microtransactions. Pay $0.05 to read this article? Sure. Whoever figures out the infrastructure for that (seems like it would be right up Stripe’s alley) is going to make trillions.
- binkHN 3y ago
  I thought this was a use case for cryptocurrency! Hahaha!
  - rglullis 3y ago
    You joke, but this is exactly what I was hoping Brave was doing: - become the gateway for advertisement money - make it opt-in and share the revenue with users that see the ads. - make it easy for the users to redistribute this earned money with the content creators they like. Yeah, you are going to tell me that this could be done without crypto, and I will respond that micropayments are still not solved. I will accept a criticism about Brave sticking with the token, though - they could've gone with a stabletoken and their business model would seem a lot more legit.
- charlieyu1 3y ago
  We already have enough content farms.
  - qup 3y ago
    At least in this situation they'd be identifying themselves up front.
    - yomlica8 3y ago
      And you'd be identifying yourself up front to in order to pay.
  - Nextgrid 3y ago
    Content farms work right now because ad views can't be refunded; by the time you've loaded the page (and realized you got tricked by clickbait/spam), it's too late and they already got paid. A micropayment system where you are able to request refunds/dispute payments will break that model.
ravenstine 3y ago
This guy's conception of The Google's role in the history of the ad-based internet is totally out of touch, which is strange because he appears to be about as old as I am, maybe even a bit older than that. The Google didn't prove that "ads could work" to make content free. They may have become a big player, if not the biggest player in the ad space, but the proliferation of ad-supported content had more to do with timing than anything else. YouTube was born at a time where video content embedded in webpages could actually work for most users (without downloading something like RealPlayer) and be scaled up. The Google simply bought this business because it was clear to most people that YouTube represented the future, and they had the cash to do it. Not only did they have that cash, but even more cash to throw at it to create their Buffetean moat. There's nothing genius about it. Before YouTube and even Web 2.0, there was not only plenty of free written content but there were other video sites, few if any had anything to do with The Google. If anything, The Google is responsible for demolishing the ad-based internet. The quality control of their ads used to be so atrocious that of course people started ignoring most of them. Thus, traditional ads became nearly worthless. Their conclusion wasn't to turn away business from outright scams hawking B.S., but that people aren't clicking on ads because the ads aren't relevant to them! A good theory on paper, except it turns out people don't actually like feeling like they're being followed everywhere they go, and it also turns out that when they regularly buy Huggies diapers out of necessity, that doesn't mean they want to immediately see another 100 ads telling them to buy more Huggies. All that said, I don't think ads have very much to do with the current decline in the quality of the web as a whole. The recent push to shove lots of ads in front of users, namely those that appear frequently within YouTube videos, is just a symptom of companies like The Google struggling to maintain growth when Silicon Valley isn't living life on the fast lane in Easy Street. There's also other factors like search engines failing to scale along with the web, as well as deranking or outright censorship; this is done both at the behest of advertisers but also to chase the widest possible audience.
- jprete 3y ago
  I agree that ads aren’t the cause. In fact I think they’re a downstream result. The root cause is that the Web doesn’t support any currency but attention. People on social media can cash in attention for self-esteem, but serious content can only really trade it for advertising dollars.
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Devasta 3y ago
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standardUser 3y ago
I'm not going to watch this entire video. I just want to ask, what the fuck is going on with those disgusting body horror ads we see all over the internet? Close ups of pimples and wounds and bizzare diagrams of human anatomy that all appear designed specifically to draw the eye (at any cost) but personally just repulse me. There's a whole cross section of websites I won't visit, including some major news sites, because apparently the best they can attract are these garbage advertisers.
- carabiner 3y ago
  ?
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- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  I've seen those before but haven't in awhile. I assume they are eye-catching. Holes in hand, hand pulling wet cloth, jellyfish on hand, spider, hair, etc.
- ruined 3y ago
  wow i'm so glad i never look at ads
- lr4444lr 3y ago
  I think the term is "chumbox". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumbox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumbox (I.e., the icky health ads are a major category of it.) https://www.fastcompany.com/90843502/the-chumbox-is-still-the-dirty-design-secret-of-the-internet https://www.fastcompany.com/90843502/the-chumbox-is-still-th...
  - alasarmas 3y ago
    The original(?) article on chumboxes is still the best: https://www.theawl.com/2015/06/a-complete-taxonomy-of-internet-chum/ https://www.theawl.com/2015/06/a-complete-taxonomy-of-intern...
PrimeMcFly 3y ago
Most advertising is wasted money anyway. Companies keep paying for advertising because they believe it works and out of tradition. If Coke stopped advertising (and I think they, or Pepsi did), they would have no significant reduction in sales. Ads should be for new interesting products, not things people have already made their decisions on. This fake advertising economy is one of the ways the first world keeps money cycling internally, stopping it from being distributed globally.
- paul_funyun 3y ago
  Sounds good for me (first worlder).
kgwxd 3y ago
Didn't watch the video but I've had the opposite experience from the title. All the ad-driven sites have forced my hand by now. Most of the ad-driven social media site drove me far away, a long time ago. Reddit was the most recent and last, I'm never going to join another ad-drive social media platform again. I'm strictly on Mastodon, Lemmy and, for now, HN (I think lemmy might replace it). I've only been seriously using the fedivers stuff for about a week, I can feel a _major_ difference. I'm already trying to figure out exactly where I should start funneling my "Patreon budget" to be most effective at helping keep it's spirit alive. Ad-driven media platforms have mostly gotten me to buy into the ad-free tier. YouTube being the most expensive and, by far, most used. The family plan is, I think, 22 a month and it's the last subscription I'd ever end. The channels I really like, I join the Patreon. I know YouTube has something similar now but I will never use it. That separation of paid subscribers from the platform the content creator currently uses to post, I think, is really, really important. Sacred even. I think, for example, the Breaking Points business model is something every channel should strive for. Channels structured in a similar manor tend to make incredible content. Even when they opt for sponsor ads, they're usually very tasteful about it. It doesn't bother me a bit to pay something and still get an ad like that. Most of the movie/show streaming platforms just have me on that line of "doesn't cost much but they don't really have anything I like at the moment". When things get tight, they're the first to get cancelled. I've found a better internet over the past year or so. It's nice again. I'm sure the majority of people aren't seeing it, but it's kind of back to how it used to be, if you try.
barbariangrunge 3y ago
Good. The internet was really fun before the ads and monetization came. We had forums and personal web sites. Weird blogs everywhere you looked. Some semblance of anonymity. A sense of community that wasn't about growing a following.
- dpig_ 3y ago
  The toothpaste is out of the tube though, sorry to say.
  - nness 3y ago
    Things get worse once someone realises how it can be monetised...
- barrysteve 3y ago
  The concept of an upvote didn't exist. You were primarily relating to people, not an audience filtered through a voting mechanism. It was peaceful.
  - xtracto 3y ago
    The usenet I remember was anything but praceful haha
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  This sentiment reads pretty much like auto enthusiasts musing about how good things were when every car owner knew how to fix his car and things were more simple. The world has moved on, the Internet is not a hobby or specialization anymore, just like reading and writing used to be and no longer is.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    Modern cars are about as easy to fix as old ones. The engine room is more cramped now so a bit more annoying though and you are often out of luck if the computers need replacements and be programmed for the car. But most problems are fixed just like before. I feel it is mostly an exuse to not bother doing it the "manly way" but paying a pro to do it.
bozhark 3y ago
Facebook. Twitter. Google. Reddit. They are all ad platforms now. Some always have been.
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jmspring 3y ago
Good. I don't have a problem with subscriptions that provide content. That said, currently ad supported content stuffed behind a pay wall which still has ads, or even things like Hulu which have "ad free" yet still show ads, there is an imbalance toward shoving ads down peoples throats. The sooner that goes away, the better.
zer8k 3y ago
I work in the ad industry. I have some expertise both on witnessing the alleged decline and counter-acting it. Before anyone asks about my moral compass I do not like ads, I never have, but they're an inevitability. The problems big ad tech face are unique and very hard especially w.r.t. to data. Anyway, ads are not dying. By and large ad quality is getting better. There are several companies that exist now to pre-screen ads for major websites (youtube being one of them) that specialize specifically in making sure not only the ads are relevant but also safe. You may see niche (gross) ads on places like 4chan. But on any major site you can be sure the ads have gone through several reviews not only for quality, but accuracy, and relevancy. As for the counter-acting part several companies specialize in guerilla advertising and this business is BOOMING. The author probably has no idea they are constantly being advertised on nearly every popular youtube video. There are so many ways we can slip ads in to someone's feed that you will not avoid it no matter what you do. What bothers me is the author of this video seems to think the internet can exist without ads. In it's current form it cannot. Every free service you use, every video you watch, etc would have to be paid in full otherwise. This is the definition of an information economy. The video goes on to whine and cry about how many ads are being shown on youtube, or how reddit torpedo'd stuff in the name of ads. The ONLY ALTERNATIVE is a paid solution. The author seems to be channeling the levels of undeserved hubris only Stallman can achieve. This is the fundamental problem of open source software only marginally reframed. A bunch of ivory tower morons talking about how software should be free but unwilling to help/donate/code to make it happen. Users of ad-powered websites are legitimately no different. So you have a fork in the road. Watch a couple ads occasionally to help fund the website you're leeching from or pay for the service. The video frustrates me especially because the industry itself is doing a lot of very hard work to drive relevant content to users. For example, you won't see an ad for clorox bleach on a sysop video. Nothing is getting worse. You are watching a system built on advertising revenue to provide a "free" experience degrading because the revenue is getting smaller. If you like the service turn your ad blocker off. If you cannot do that, you legitimately have no place to complain. You do not have to use these services. In the case of Youtube you can pay for the ad-free experience. I guess what I'm saying is: if you're a content leech watch a couple ads. If you're an OSS leech, consider donating :).
- edmundsauto 3y ago
kelvinjps10 3y ago
I think 1-1 sponsorhips or (ads) will become more frequent, and I believe is betyer for all.
aurizon 3y ago
My Ad-Antibodies have become stronger with time, even as the click baits proliferate. Anything that shows a morsel = click for next = I am gone. Some ads are tolerable - I endure, some throw up such a ticket = gone. Any site that asks me = gone...
- Minor49er 3y ago
  When I am presented with an obtrusive popup to sign up for some website, I've been in the habit of just filling it in with a random email address pointed at the site's own domain. Funnily enough, some sites will stop you from submitting an email address associated with the current domain because even they know how annoying and unpleasant they are
romusha 3y ago
Install adblocks, give up and close the tab of any website where ads can't be blocked, not giving a shot, enjoy life, sip coffee, life is good
kelvinjps10 3y ago
Podcasts are working without ads
- tensor 3y ago
  A great many podcasts now have ads of various sorts.
- paintman252 3y ago
  Homie what are you talking about lmao. As an avid podcast listener they're full of ads
1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago
Some people, besides the ones who read HN, believe the success of online advertising service providers, including so-called "Big Tech" and "adtech", is based on fraud. Please distinguish the success of online advertising service providers, e.g., Google, versus the success of online advertisers, e.g., Joe's Pizza. One example is Bob Hoffman. Hoffman is an ad industry veteran who suggests that despite all the advances in computing, advertising has gotten worse, not better. That is, ads today are, for various reasons, less effective at creating brands than in the past. (If so, then one might ask "Why pay for them?" There are multiple answers, none of them satisfactory. IMHO. Yours may differ.) https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B007W8R8H6/about https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B007W8R8H6/about https://www.bobhoffmanswebsite.com https://www.bobhoffmanswebsite.com https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/171361.Bob_Hoffman https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/171361.Bob_Hoffman https://www.marketingsociety.com/the-library/bob-hoffman-industry%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98slow-motion-death-spiral%E2%80%99-and-online-advertising-%E2%80%98mccarthyism%E2%80%99 https://www.marketingsociety.com/the-library/bob-hoffman-ind... https://the-media-leader.com/making-sense-of-it-all-bob-hoffman-on-why-the-ad-industry-never-learns/ https://the-media-leader.com/making-sense-of-it-all-bob-hoff... https://www.amazon.com/ADSCAM-Advertising-Historys-Greatest-Democracy/dp/0999230743/ref=sr_1_6?qid=1689125744&refinements=p_27%3ABob+Hoffman&s=books&sr=1-6 https://www.amazon.com/ADSCAM-Advertising-Historys-Greatest-... https://www.amazon.com/Advertising-Skeptics-Bob-Hoffman/dp/0999230735/ref=sr_1_10?qid=1689125744&refinements=p_27%3ABob+Hoffman&s=books&sr=1-10 https://www.amazon.com/Advertising-Skeptics-Bob-Hoffman/dp/0... https://podcasts.marketingsociety.com/episode/dave-dye-talks-to-the-ad-contrarian-bob-hoffman- https://podcasts.marketingsociety.com/episode/dave-dye-talks... https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/businessofstory/BOB_HOFFMAN_PODCAST.mp3?dest-id=283324 https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/businessofstory/BOB_HOFFMA... https://www.moreaboutadvertising.com/2023/01/ad-contrarian-bob-hoffman-why-im-no-longer-very-interested-in-todays-advertising/ https://www.moreaboutadvertising.com/2023/01/ad-contrarian-b... https://stoppress.co.nz/stoppress-series/features/a-qa-with-ad-contrarian-bob-hoffman/ https://stoppress.co.nz/stoppress-series/features/a-qa-with-...
- earthboundkid 3y ago
  I think it's pretty obvious just as a consumer that banner ads don't work. No one deliberately clicks on them, and meanwhile every major site has obvious scam ads on it. Magazines always had scam ads, but they were in the back pages in small print. Now the scam ads are quite prominent (and disgusting). People in general like ads: they sing jingles, they talk about funny Super Bowl ads, they buy the mattress their podcast host recommends, they cut out magazine ads as mini-posters, they follow Instagram influencers (glamorous product placement), etc. No one likes banner ads. They have had no impact on pop culture since "punch the monkey" and "one weird trick" (both scams, btw), and in general, they are worthless, so the whole market for them is rotten.
scubadude 3y ago
I am eternally grateful to the hippies who created the Internet, open protocols and all that, but I think making everything free was a mistake, which opened the door for advertising (and the tracking that goes with it) to step in and fill the gap. If Google search was subscription from day one, how different would the world be now?
EdSharkey 3y ago
I think fiat is dying and all the bond values are going to zero which will prevent the big megacorps from paying their bills. That collapse is a better explanation of the curious, brand-destroying things these companies have done recently. I noticed recently YouTube made it REALLY hard for me to download an mp4 for a video using VLC. Now if I were a betting man, and the collapse of Google were imminent, I'd bet that in liquidation, they'd want to charge to get an offline copy of the videos they store. Soooo, in the meantime before the collapse, they're making it painful/time consuming to download their videos so they can max out their post-meltdown profits. Make backups of your fav's while you can.
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AltruisticGapHN 3y ago
I agree with recent TWiT discussion on this : we've had it good for a while - the promise of free internet but all those services cost money to keep running. I don't have an issue with paying Youtube Premium Lite. Where I have an issue with the subs model is you're pay subs to so many services, YT Netflix Twitch, etc. It adds up pretty quickly, and costs way more than traditional TV used to cost. Then there's the issue of online magazines. I find most even including Wired, to be too random in terms of content. Itś really easy for me to rationalize the worth of YT : irreplacable. But all those online "news" site that churn out tons of SEO optimized articles and "top ten (insert random hardware)" lists etc? Really difficult for me to warrant a subscription. Now if someone maintained a really big forum, like there ś a few still running with tons of sub forums where you can spend an hour everyday and get a ton of interaction. Sure, I'd sub to that. Even Reddit for me it's hard to think why I'd pay for it, even though it is also irreplacable in some way. Perhaps because it is primarily a social site, there is so much abuse, so much idiocy, so much "hive mind" and so much negativity/sarcasm overall - it easily shadows the good side of reddit : the helpful/kind replies, the sharing of useful guides etc. So huh.. Maybe it is like the TWiT panel agreed, the "free for all" internet is dying, and some sites/ services may well disappear and maybe that's not a bad thing. Maybe there are better ideas to replace them. If it was just me I´d bring back huge forums. There's gotta be a way to monetize those through Patreon/etc. Theres lots of small perks you can give to forum members. Maybe they still have a life in them, but they were just made seemingly obsolete for a while by "social media" sites like Twitter and Instagram.
- Pet_Ant 3y ago
  I mean I don't think the criticism that it costs more than traditional TV is valid. Traditional TV is a linear stream where you are sending out one signal for everyone. On demand is a different beast altogether, so even if it were the exact cost or more, then it'd still be a win. That's not even including the fact that the content that gets made of YouTube or Twitch wouldn't have ever been made on old TV. If you had told me 20 years ago that it would cost the same or even a bit more but you get all this, I'd've signed up in a heartbeat.
- garciasn 3y ago
  This is EXACTLY what cable companies predicted would happen when we went a la carte. They were using their monopoly power to drive down the overall price of packaged TV and by de-bundling, we end up paying more overall. For once they were correct and I apologize for questioning it 15 years ago. That said, I am ok with SOME advertisements to keep the web running. There are two big problems with this: 1. Market investors expect their stock to continue to rise, forever. When it doesn't, they push for more revenue, but instead of adding new products or functionality, they push for ad revenue instead. 2. Ad revenue as a model for revenue generation means that we need more ads, as opposed to building better products. This means that the entire web is inundated with advertisements that overwhelm the overall experience and will continue to get worse and worse over time. This is a product of investment and lack of reinvestment in new products/function and instead more immediate revenue gains as opposed to slow-and-steady rise in value. Investors want to cash in NOW and not over time and thus we have entered a time where 3 ads precede every video alongside in-video sponsorships and more traditional 15-30 second ads within each. It's absurd.
seydor 3y ago
Online ad spending keeps increasing every year, so it can't be dying https://www.insiderintelligence.com/topics/storage/02a37118657df0135e9f32952b4770c3/279253 https://www.insiderintelligence.com/topics/storage/02a371186... It's just that google + fb are increasingly keeping bigger and bigger piece of the pie for themselves, which among others enriches their workers to the detrimment of content creators. Monopoly is to blame here, not a natural death
- MattGaiser 3y ago
  Something increasing in spend every year doesn’t mean the overall profits from it are increasing (I am not sure whether or not they are). People spend more on food delivery every year. The profits remain elusive as the cost also climbs.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  The divisor is also getting bigger. Ads were pretty comfy in the age of print (there were only so many physical copies people were willing to buy), but now there is effectively unlimited real estate on the internet, people keep throwing up new sites (real and spam) that fight for the pie, and there are always new people looking to make it as influencers or streamers, which are now the most common answer in the US to “what do you want to be when you grow up”. So now an “easy” way to get money has quickly become a race to the bottom.
tempodox 3y ago
If only! Ads are sprawling and encroaching on ever more territory, getting ever more aggressive and unbearable.
princevegeta89 3y ago
I mean it already died in my point of view approximately a decade ago, where a significant portion of internet users were using adBlockers for everything, and its usage has only gotten bigger now. The only place where ads are thriving right now is mobile, and companies had gone over the line from the get-go with obnoxious and intrusive/misleading ads and spyware. It may thrive for a while before the blockers make their way efficiently into the mobile world.
- amf12 3y ago
  > where a significant portion of internet users were using adBlockers for everything Just looking up online, the number of US internet users who block ads hovers at around 27% in last few years. That's not significant enough.
amadeuspagel 3y ago
Ironic to see people take such a claim seriously on an ad-funded website.
mrkramer 3y ago
I wouldn't say so; I would rather say that the internet ad industry got more concentrated and centralized around Google and Facebook and that's why for example online news industry started rapidly losing their ad revenue and switched to subscription based business model. Ad-based internet is stronger than ever.
marcosdumay 3y ago
Ads aren't going anywhere. But the idea that ads can be the largest market segment on Earth and support most of our largest companies, with profit margins that shields those companies from even thinking about money... well, that was always bullshit. Those companies were propelled there by a lot of investment money, gave for free to investors with taxpayers bearing the costs everywhere. That money is gone, and without enough thrust, pigs can't keep flying.
belorn 3y ago
He mentioned linus tech tips but they have already started pivoting away from the ad-based economy and into branded merchandise with more and more of their revenue being made from their store. They also has their own platform and subscription service. They are basically planning ahead for the day when youtube is no longer a main source of income. I am personally not that worried about what the future will be without ads. Some creators will switch to a subscription based platform, others will use pateron-like services or tips (doesn't work for everyone and often depend on whales), and others will find alternatives sources like grants and sponsors. Others might use their creative efforts as a platform for self-advertisement, sell merch, or just create content as a personal outlet.
dave333 3y ago
Could be because 80% of FB ads are scams imho. The only platform that matters for most publishers and advertisers is Google adwords/adsense which while maybe plateaued is at least consistent.
JoeCohen 3y ago
I have a startup that solves this problem. And I'm looking for a co-founder. It's really interesting to see this video right now because this problem is all I've been focusing on. There are other solutions other than what the video mentions. Nobody's doing them yet
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205 points by rglullis 3y ago

LetFree 3y ago

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gnicholas 3y ago

[video]

constantly 3y ago

I hope I won’t be faulted for not “reading” the OP, but it’s a 17 minute video. I watched a little, but I don’t understand the thesis. It does seem ironic though that on a video about the ad-based internet dying, there are several ads in the page, the video maker in the first segment has a lengthy ad where he praises whatever he is advertising, probably VPN stuff, there is a bunch of begging for paid subscribers in the summary, and comments in the comment section from third party ad spammers directing people to what appears to be MLMs.

RajT88 3y ago
I look forward to a future where these videos can get auto-transcribed (accurately) so I don't have to watch the damn video.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
  I have been incredibly impressed with whisper.cpp. A bit of legwork to transcribe a youtube video, but the results are very accurate.
  - crubier 3y ago
    Do you have an end to end tool that integrates whisper to translate Youtube videos? Share! (Or make us pay for it lol)
- kelvinjps10 3y ago
  The language learning extensions do that. Like language reactor
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  YouTube has pretty decent transcriptions with timestamps, especially for channels that bother implementing actual subtitles. They're hidden by default and not searchable on every platform, but they're excellent for skipping to the important parts. Independent websites need to get working on something similar. Whisper is pretty good but extremely CPU intensive, but there are lower cost implementations with acceptable transcriptions out there. I usually watch the introduction and then skip to the 66% mark, those seem to be the places the actual interesting information is stored on YouTube and its competitors.
- liminalsunset 3y ago
  YouTube can be used with youtubetranscript.com (free) which will turn a video into a clickable transcript that takes you to the corresponding section of the video when clicked to see the corresponding visuals. It uses the Google auto transcription so not sure about whether the accuracy will be acceptable for you.

mschuster91 3y ago

It's gotta be ironic that the most recent comment on a video about ads is some spam advertising a get-rich-quick scheme. The sad fact is that there still seem to be more than enough utterly braindead marks on the Internet that fall for these scams and thus make the spam campaigns, scare ads and other crap "worth the effort".

jstarfish 3y ago
> The sad fact is that there still seem to be more than enough utterly braindead marks on the Internet that fall for these scams Defense is a game of resource exhaustion. Even security experts get tired/drunk/overwhelmed and make errors in judgment. I almost fell for a recent phishing exercise myself. A growing number of these "utterly braindead marks" are people like your own parents and grandparents, whose brains are in fact degrading. Meanwhile the threats continue to evolve and new vectors arise. It's like applying for jobs. The more scammers try, the higher the chances an attempt will eventually succeed. PSA: Expecting an inheritance? Keep your parents out of trouble or you'll never see it. The power-of-attorney scam is alive and well.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > Defense is a game of resource exhaustion. Even security experts get tired/drunk/overwhelmed and make errors in judgment. I almost fell for a recent phishing exercise myself. It's also a game of numbers. I once did fall for a phishing exercise, because by pure coincidence, the email looked perfectly legitimate in context of my unusual, specific and temporary circumstances. There were some minor red flags, but I missed those as I got the email while waiting in the airport. Basically, a one in a million lottery win. Fortunately, it was a company exercise, so all I lost was a bit of self-esteem and a lot of self-confidence. But that's the thing: when you can send a message like this to a couple million people for approximately $0, then "one in a million chance" turns into a guaranteed win.
Nextgrid 3y ago
> The sad fact is that there still seem to be more than enough utterly braindead marks on the Internet that fall for these scams and thus make the spam campaigns, scare ads and other crap "worth the effort". And that despite the size of Google, modern advancements in technology such as large processing power, AI and LLMs, all the tracking and anti-abuse mechanisms (that often misfire and ban legitimate accounts with no recourse), this shit still manages to get through while being super obvious. We used to filter this crap out on forums back in the good old days with much more primitive tools (regexes and basic keyword matching + queuing for moderator's manual approval), but Google wants us to believe they can't while in reality they just don't care because they're not liable, have a monopoly and those spammers still contribute towards "engagement".

gleenn 3y ago

His two examples are Twitter and Reddit whose ad revenue is dying because those two companies have made huge blunders. Elon seems to almost actively be killing Twitter (which the poster even states). Reddit screwed Apollo and then many of the most popular subreddits protested and did things like show porn on otherwise usually SFW content to prevent Reddit from showing ads and thus killing their profits. Those are big sites, but those are definitely attributable to other obvious confounding factors. I would definitely argue they should be the first data points thrown out in asking "is the ad biz on the internet dying?". I do think ads have gotten worse but I definitely don't think it's going anywhere for a long long time. Way too many companies have built their whole revenue model around them. And companies may spend less to post ads but they definitely still will because there really aren't that many alternatives.

woooooo 3y ago
I recently googled some random topic (drag race engines I think) and got some fairly-decent article from 5 years ago that satisfied my curiosity. The website was actively user-hostile. Multiple things popping up all over the place, the works. Is there any other destiny for content like that? Long since written, but owned and served. Why not enshittify as much as possible, one performance review cycle at a time?
- soared 3y ago
  Interesting thought that for content where no competition exists, the owner can maximize profit by drowning it in ads. Doesn’t seem like there is much of an alternative outside of legislation or action from google to enforce stricter ad standards(like how pop ups got killed)
LakeBoat 3y ago
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nonethewiser 3y ago
> His two examples are Twitter and Reddit whose ad revenue is dying because those two companies have made huge blunders. Even worse - they never had good ad revenue. If ad revenue model is dying it would suggest companies like facebook and google see ad revenue dying.

Karunamon 3y ago

Same video from YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTLj-xcqGM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTLj-xcqGM (I have no particular love for YouTube but at least sponsorblock works there!)

baron816 3y ago

I think we really need microtransactions. Pay $0.05 to read this article? Sure. Whoever figures out the infrastructure for that (seems like it would be right up Stripe’s alley) is going to make trillions.

binkHN 3y ago
I thought this was a use case for cryptocurrency! Hahaha!
- rglullis 3y ago
  You joke, but this is exactly what I was hoping Brave was doing: - become the gateway for advertisement money - make it opt-in and share the revenue with users that see the ads. - make it easy for the users to redistribute this earned money with the content creators they like. Yeah, you are going to tell me that this could be done without crypto, and I will respond that micropayments are still not solved. I will accept a criticism about Brave sticking with the token, though - they could've gone with a stabletoken and their business model would seem a lot more legit.
charlieyu1 3y ago
We already have enough content farms.
- qup 3y ago
  At least in this situation they'd be identifying themselves up front.
  - yomlica8 3y ago
    And you'd be identifying yourself up front to in order to pay.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  Content farms work right now because ad views can't be refunded; by the time you've loaded the page (and realized you got tricked by clickbait/spam), it's too late and they already got paid. A micropayment system where you are able to request refunds/dispute payments will break that model.

ravenstine 3y ago

This guy's conception of The Google's role in the history of the ad-based internet is totally out of touch, which is strange because he appears to be about as old as I am, maybe even a bit older than that. The Google didn't prove that "ads could work" to make content free. They may have become a big player, if not the biggest player in the ad space, but the proliferation of ad-supported content had more to do with timing than anything else. YouTube was born at a time where video content embedded in webpages could actually work for most users (without downloading something like RealPlayer) and be scaled up. The Google simply bought this business because it was clear to most people that YouTube represented the future, and they had the cash to do it. Not only did they have that cash, but even more cash to throw at it to create their Buffetean moat. There's nothing genius about it. Before YouTube and even Web 2.0, there was not only plenty of free written content but there were other video sites, few if any had anything to do with The Google. If anything, The Google is responsible for demolishing the ad-based internet. The quality control of their ads used to be so atrocious that of course people started ignoring most of them. Thus, traditional ads became nearly worthless. Their conclusion wasn't to turn away business from outright scams hawking B.S., but that people aren't clicking on ads because the ads aren't relevant to them! A good theory on paper, except it turns out people don't actually like feeling like they're being followed everywhere they go, and it also turns out that when they regularly buy Huggies diapers out of necessity, that doesn't mean they want to immediately see another 100 ads telling them to buy more Huggies. All that said, I don't think ads have very much to do with the current decline in the quality of the web as a whole. The recent push to shove lots of ads in front of users, namely those that appear frequently within YouTube videos, is just a symptom of companies like The Google struggling to maintain growth when Silicon Valley isn't living life on the fast lane in Easy Street. There's also other factors like search engines failing to scale along with the web, as well as deranking or outright censorship; this is done both at the behest of advertisers but also to chase the widest possible audience.

jprete 3y ago
I agree that ads aren’t the cause. In fact I think they’re a downstream result. The root cause is that the Web doesn’t support any currency but attention. People on social media can cash in attention for self-esteem, but serious content can only really trade it for advertising dollars.

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Devasta 3y ago

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standardUser 3y ago

I'm not going to watch this entire video. I just want to ask, what the fuck is going on with those disgusting body horror ads we see all over the internet? Close ups of pimples and wounds and bizzare diagrams of human anatomy that all appear designed specifically to draw the eye (at any cost) but personally just repulse me. There's a whole cross section of websites I won't visit, including some major news sites, because apparently the best they can attract are these garbage advertisers.

carabiner 3y ago
?
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2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
I've seen those before but haven't in awhile. I assume they are eye-catching. Holes in hand, hand pulling wet cloth, jellyfish on hand, spider, hair, etc.
ruined 3y ago
wow i'm so glad i never look at ads
lr4444lr 3y ago
I think the term is "chumbox". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumbox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumbox (I.e., the icky health ads are a major category of it.) https://www.fastcompany.com/90843502/the-chumbox-is-still-the-dirty-design-secret-of-the-internet https://www.fastcompany.com/90843502/the-chumbox-is-still-th...
- alasarmas 3y ago
  The original(?) article on chumboxes is still the best: https://www.theawl.com/2015/06/a-complete-taxonomy-of-internet-chum/ https://www.theawl.com/2015/06/a-complete-taxonomy-of-intern...

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

Most advertising is wasted money anyway. Companies keep paying for advertising because they believe it works and out of tradition. If Coke stopped advertising (and I think they, or Pepsi did), they would have no significant reduction in sales. Ads should be for new interesting products, not things people have already made their decisions on. This fake advertising economy is one of the ways the first world keeps money cycling internally, stopping it from being distributed globally.

paul_funyun 3y ago
Sounds good for me (first worlder).

kgwxd 3y ago

Didn't watch the video but I've had the opposite experience from the title. All the ad-driven sites have forced my hand by now. Most of the ad-driven social media site drove me far away, a long time ago. Reddit was the most recent and last, I'm never going to join another ad-drive social media platform again. I'm strictly on Mastodon, Lemmy and, for now, HN (I think lemmy might replace it). I've only been seriously using the fedivers stuff for about a week, I can feel a _major_ difference. I'm already trying to figure out exactly where I should start funneling my "Patreon budget" to be most effective at helping keep it's spirit alive. Ad-driven media platforms have mostly gotten me to buy into the ad-free tier. YouTube being the most expensive and, by far, most used. The family plan is, I think, 22 a month and it's the last subscription I'd ever end. The channels I really like, I join the Patreon. I know YouTube has something similar now but I will never use it. That separation of paid subscribers from the platform the content creator currently uses to post, I think, is really, really important. Sacred even. I think, for example, the Breaking Points business model is something every channel should strive for. Channels structured in a similar manor tend to make incredible content. Even when they opt for sponsor ads, they're usually very tasteful about it. It doesn't bother me a bit to pay something and still get an ad like that. Most of the movie/show streaming platforms just have me on that line of "doesn't cost much but they don't really have anything I like at the moment". When things get tight, they're the first to get cancelled. I've found a better internet over the past year or so. It's nice again. I'm sure the majority of people aren't seeing it, but it's kind of back to how it used to be, if you try.

barbariangrunge 3y ago

Good. The internet was really fun before the ads and monetization came. We had forums and personal web sites. Weird blogs everywhere you looked. Some semblance of anonymity. A sense of community that wasn't about growing a following.

dpig_ 3y ago
The toothpaste is out of the tube though, sorry to say.
- nness 3y ago
  Things get worse once someone realises how it can be monetised...
barrysteve 3y ago
The concept of an upvote didn't exist. You were primarily relating to people, not an audience filtered through a voting mechanism. It was peaceful.
- xtracto 3y ago
  The usenet I remember was anything but praceful haha
carlosjobim 3y ago
This sentiment reads pretty much like auto enthusiasts musing about how good things were when every car owner knew how to fix his car and things were more simple. The world has moved on, the Internet is not a hobby or specialization anymore, just like reading and writing used to be and no longer is.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  Modern cars are about as easy to fix as old ones. The engine room is more cramped now so a bit more annoying though and you are often out of luck if the computers need replacements and be programmed for the car. But most problems are fixed just like before. I feel it is mostly an exuse to not bother doing it the "manly way" but paying a pro to do it.

bozhark 3y ago

Facebook. Twitter. Google. Reddit. They are all ad platforms now. Some always have been.

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jmspring 3y ago

Good. I don't have a problem with subscriptions that provide content. That said, currently ad supported content stuffed behind a pay wall which still has ads, or even things like Hulu which have "ad free" yet still show ads, there is an imbalance toward shoving ads down peoples throats. The sooner that goes away, the better.

zer8k 3y ago

I work in the ad industry. I have some expertise both on witnessing the alleged decline and counter-acting it. Before anyone asks about my moral compass I do not like ads, I never have, but they're an inevitability. The problems big ad tech face are unique and very hard especially w.r.t. to data. Anyway, ads are not dying. By and large ad quality is getting better. There are several companies that exist now to pre-screen ads for major websites (youtube being one of them) that specialize specifically in making sure not only the ads are relevant but also safe. You may see niche (gross) ads on places like 4chan. But on any major site you can be sure the ads have gone through several reviews not only for quality, but accuracy, and relevancy. As for the counter-acting part several companies specialize in guerilla advertising and this business is BOOMING. The author probably has no idea they are constantly being advertised on nearly every popular youtube video. There are so many ways we can slip ads in to someone's feed that you will not avoid it no matter what you do. What bothers me is the author of this video seems to think the internet can exist without ads. In it's current form it cannot. Every free service you use, every video you watch, etc would have to be paid in full otherwise. This is the definition of an information economy. The video goes on to whine and cry about how many ads are being shown on youtube, or how reddit torpedo'd stuff in the name of ads. The ONLY ALTERNATIVE is a paid solution. The author seems to be channeling the levels of undeserved hubris only Stallman can achieve. This is the fundamental problem of open source software only marginally reframed. A bunch of ivory tower morons talking about how software should be free but unwilling to help/donate/code to make it happen. Users of ad-powered websites are legitimately no different. So you have a fork in the road. Watch a couple ads occasionally to help fund the website you're leeching from or pay for the service. The video frustrates me especially because the industry itself is doing a lot of very hard work to drive relevant content to users. For example, you won't see an ad for clorox bleach on a sysop video. Nothing is getting worse. You are watching a system built on advertising revenue to provide a "free" experience degrading because the revenue is getting smaller. If you like the service turn your ad blocker off. If you cannot do that, you legitimately have no place to complain. You do not have to use these services. In the case of Youtube you can pay for the ad-free experience. I guess what I'm saying is: if you're a content leech watch a couple ads. If you're an OSS leech, consider donating :).

edmundsauto 3y ago

kelvinjps10 3y ago

I think 1-1 sponsorhips or (ads) will become more frequent, and I believe is betyer for all.

aurizon 3y ago

My Ad-Antibodies have become stronger with time, even as the click baits proliferate. Anything that shows a morsel = click for next = I am gone. Some ads are tolerable - I endure, some throw up such a ticket = gone. Any site that asks me = gone...

Minor49er 3y ago
When I am presented with an obtrusive popup to sign up for some website, I've been in the habit of just filling it in with a random email address pointed at the site's own domain. Funnily enough, some sites will stop you from submitting an email address associated with the current domain because even they know how annoying and unpleasant they are

romusha 3y ago

Install adblocks, give up and close the tab of any website where ads can't be blocked, not giving a shot, enjoy life, sip coffee, life is good

kelvinjps10 3y ago

Podcasts are working without ads

tensor 3y ago
A great many podcasts now have ads of various sorts.
paintman252 3y ago
Homie what are you talking about lmao. As an avid podcast listener they're full of ads

1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago

Some people, besides the ones who read HN, believe the success of online advertising service providers, including so-called "Big Tech" and "adtech", is based on fraud. Please distinguish the success of online advertising service providers, e.g., Google, versus the success of online advertisers, e.g., Joe's Pizza. One example is Bob Hoffman. Hoffman is an ad industry veteran who suggests that despite all the advances in computing, advertising has gotten worse, not better. That is, ads today are, for various reasons, less effective at creating brands than in the past. (If so, then one might ask "Why pay for them?" There are multiple answers, none of them satisfactory. IMHO. Yours may differ.) https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B007W8R8H6/about https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B007W8R8H6/about https://www.bobhoffmanswebsite.com https://www.bobhoffmanswebsite.com https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/171361.Bob_Hoffman https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/171361.Bob_Hoffman https://www.marketingsociety.com/the-library/bob-hoffman-industry%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98slow-motion-death-spiral%E2%80%99-and-online-advertising-%E2%80%98mccarthyism%E2%80%99 https://www.marketingsociety.com/the-library/bob-hoffman-ind... https://the-media-leader.com/making-sense-of-it-all-bob-hoffman-on-why-the-ad-industry-never-learns/ https://the-media-leader.com/making-sense-of-it-all-bob-hoff... https://www.amazon.com/ADSCAM-Advertising-Historys-Greatest-Democracy/dp/0999230743/ref=sr_1_6?qid=1689125744&refinements=p_27%3ABob+Hoffman&s=books&sr=1-6 https://www.amazon.com/ADSCAM-Advertising-Historys-Greatest-... https://www.amazon.com/Advertising-Skeptics-Bob-Hoffman/dp/0999230735/ref=sr_1_10?qid=1689125744&refinements=p_27%3ABob+Hoffman&s=books&sr=1-10 https://www.amazon.com/Advertising-Skeptics-Bob-Hoffman/dp/0... https://podcasts.marketingsociety.com/episode/dave-dye-talks-to-the-ad-contrarian-bob-hoffman- https://podcasts.marketingsociety.com/episode/dave-dye-talks... https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/businessofstory/BOB_HOFFMAN_PODCAST.mp3?dest-id=283324 https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/businessofstory/BOB_HOFFMA... https://www.moreaboutadvertising.com/2023/01/ad-contrarian-bob-hoffman-why-im-no-longer-very-interested-in-todays-advertising/ https://www.moreaboutadvertising.com/2023/01/ad-contrarian-b... https://stoppress.co.nz/stoppress-series/features/a-qa-with-ad-contrarian-bob-hoffman/ https://stoppress.co.nz/stoppress-series/features/a-qa-with-...

earthboundkid 3y ago
I think it's pretty obvious just as a consumer that banner ads don't work. No one deliberately clicks on them, and meanwhile every major site has obvious scam ads on it. Magazines always had scam ads, but they were in the back pages in small print. Now the scam ads are quite prominent (and disgusting). People in general like ads: they sing jingles, they talk about funny Super Bowl ads, they buy the mattress their podcast host recommends, they cut out magazine ads as mini-posters, they follow Instagram influencers (glamorous product placement), etc. No one likes banner ads. They have had no impact on pop culture since "punch the monkey" and "one weird trick" (both scams, btw), and in general, they are worthless, so the whole market for them is rotten.

scubadude 3y ago

I am eternally grateful to the hippies who created the Internet, open protocols and all that, but I think making everything free was a mistake, which opened the door for advertising (and the tracking that goes with it) to step in and fill the gap. If Google search was subscription from day one, how different would the world be now?

EdSharkey 3y ago

I think fiat is dying and all the bond values are going to zero which will prevent the big megacorps from paying their bills. That collapse is a better explanation of the curious, brand-destroying things these companies have done recently. I noticed recently YouTube made it REALLY hard for me to download an mp4 for a video using VLC. Now if I were a betting man, and the collapse of Google were imminent, I'd bet that in liquidation, they'd want to charge to get an offline copy of the videos they store. Soooo, in the meantime before the collapse, they're making it painful/time consuming to download their videos so they can max out their post-meltdown profits. Make backups of your fav's while you can.

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AltruisticGapHN 3y ago

I agree with recent TWiT discussion on this : we've had it good for a while - the promise of free internet but all those services cost money to keep running. I don't have an issue with paying Youtube Premium Lite. Where I have an issue with the subs model is you're pay subs to so many services, YT Netflix Twitch, etc. It adds up pretty quickly, and costs way more than traditional TV used to cost. Then there's the issue of online magazines. I find most even including Wired, to be too random in terms of content. Itś really easy for me to rationalize the worth of YT : irreplacable. But all those online "news" site that churn out tons of SEO optimized articles and "top ten (insert random hardware)" lists etc? Really difficult for me to warrant a subscription. Now if someone maintained a really big forum, like there ś a few still running with tons of sub forums where you can spend an hour everyday and get a ton of interaction. Sure, I'd sub to that. Even Reddit for me it's hard to think why I'd pay for it, even though it is also irreplacable in some way. Perhaps because it is primarily a social site, there is so much abuse, so much idiocy, so much "hive mind" and so much negativity/sarcasm overall - it easily shadows the good side of reddit : the helpful/kind replies, the sharing of useful guides etc. So huh.. Maybe it is like the TWiT panel agreed, the "free for all" internet is dying, and some sites/ services may well disappear and maybe that's not a bad thing. Maybe there are better ideas to replace them. If it was just me I´d bring back huge forums. There's gotta be a way to monetize those through Patreon/etc. Theres lots of small perks you can give to forum members. Maybe they still have a life in them, but they were just made seemingly obsolete for a while by "social media" sites like Twitter and Instagram.

Pet_Ant 3y ago
I mean I don't think the criticism that it costs more than traditional TV is valid. Traditional TV is a linear stream where you are sending out one signal for everyone. On demand is a different beast altogether, so even if it were the exact cost or more, then it'd still be a win. That's not even including the fact that the content that gets made of YouTube or Twitch wouldn't have ever been made on old TV. If you had told me 20 years ago that it would cost the same or even a bit more but you get all this, I'd've signed up in a heartbeat.
garciasn 3y ago
This is EXACTLY what cable companies predicted would happen when we went a la carte. They were using their monopoly power to drive down the overall price of packaged TV and by de-bundling, we end up paying more overall. For once they were correct and I apologize for questioning it 15 years ago. That said, I am ok with SOME advertisements to keep the web running. There are two big problems with this: 1. Market investors expect their stock to continue to rise, forever. When it doesn't, they push for more revenue, but instead of adding new products or functionality, they push for ad revenue instead. 2. Ad revenue as a model for revenue generation means that we need more ads, as opposed to building better products. This means that the entire web is inundated with advertisements that overwhelm the overall experience and will continue to get worse and worse over time. This is a product of investment and lack of reinvestment in new products/function and instead more immediate revenue gains as opposed to slow-and-steady rise in value. Investors want to cash in NOW and not over time and thus we have entered a time where 3 ads precede every video alongside in-video sponsorships and more traditional 15-30 second ads within each. It's absurd.

seydor 3y ago

Online ad spending keeps increasing every year, so it can't be dying https://www.insiderintelligence.com/topics/storage/02a37118657df0135e9f32952b4770c3/279253 https://www.insiderintelligence.com/topics/storage/02a371186... It's just that google + fb are increasingly keeping bigger and bigger piece of the pie for themselves, which among others enriches their workers to the detrimment of content creators. Monopoly is to blame here, not a natural death

MattGaiser 3y ago
Something increasing in spend every year doesn’t mean the overall profits from it are increasing (I am not sure whether or not they are). People spend more on food delivery every year. The profits remain elusive as the cost also climbs.
bobthepanda 3y ago
The divisor is also getting bigger. Ads were pretty comfy in the age of print (there were only so many physical copies people were willing to buy), but now there is effectively unlimited real estate on the internet, people keep throwing up new sites (real and spam) that fight for the pie, and there are always new people looking to make it as influencers or streamers, which are now the most common answer in the US to “what do you want to be when you grow up”. So now an “easy” way to get money has quickly become a race to the bottom.

tempodox 3y ago

If only! Ads are sprawling and encroaching on ever more territory, getting ever more aggressive and unbearable.

princevegeta89 3y ago

I mean it already died in my point of view approximately a decade ago, where a significant portion of internet users were using adBlockers for everything, and its usage has only gotten bigger now. The only place where ads are thriving right now is mobile, and companies had gone over the line from the get-go with obnoxious and intrusive/misleading ads and spyware. It may thrive for a while before the blockers make their way efficiently into the mobile world.

amf12 3y ago
> where a significant portion of internet users were using adBlockers for everything Just looking up online, the number of US internet users who block ads hovers at around 27% in last few years. That's not significant enough.

amadeuspagel 3y ago

Ironic to see people take such a claim seriously on an ad-funded website.

mrkramer 3y ago

I wouldn't say so; I would rather say that the internet ad industry got more concentrated and centralized around Google and Facebook and that's why for example online news industry started rapidly losing their ad revenue and switched to subscription based business model. Ad-based internet is stronger than ever.

marcosdumay 3y ago

Ads aren't going anywhere. But the idea that ads can be the largest market segment on Earth and support most of our largest companies, with profit margins that shields those companies from even thinking about money... well, that was always bullshit. Those companies were propelled there by a lot of investment money, gave for free to investors with taxpayers bearing the costs everywhere. That money is gone, and without enough thrust, pigs can't keep flying.

belorn 3y ago

He mentioned linus tech tips but they have already started pivoting away from the ad-based economy and into branded merchandise with more and more of their revenue being made from their store. They also has their own platform and subscription service. They are basically planning ahead for the day when youtube is no longer a main source of income. I am personally not that worried about what the future will be without ads. Some creators will switch to a subscription based platform, others will use pateron-like services or tips (doesn't work for everyone and often depend on whales), and others will find alternatives sources like grants and sponsors. Others might use their creative efforts as a platform for self-advertisement, sell merch, or just create content as a personal outlet.

dave333 3y ago

Could be because 80% of FB ads are scams imho. The only platform that matters for most publishers and advertisers is Google adwords/adsense which while maybe plateaued is at least consistent.

JoeCohen 3y ago

I have a startup that solves this problem. And I'm looking for a co-founder. It's really interesting to see this video right now because this problem is all I've been focusing on. There are other solutions other than what the video mentions. Nobody's doing them yet

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