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Ask HN: How many of you have been laid off twice this year already?

• betimsl 3y ago
  I have been laid 0 times this year. At least I'm not near bankruptcy.
• psychphysic 3y ago
  I completely missed the "of" in the title and was expecting a very different thread. It should be "off" anyways. Sorry to hear about your work troubles OP
  • sharemywin 3y ago
    I agree the "of" didn't make sense but thought the previous word was a completely different meaning.
• alex_lav 3y ago
  An old coworker was laid off 3 times in 2 years. He kinda just couldn't pick a winner. My advice to him (and probably to you if this is your position) is searching for large, stable, boring companies that employ software people. That's what I did after my recent layoff, which has gone well.
  • wombat-man 3y ago
    One of my old classmates is plugging away making apps for a city gov. Not making as much as possible but he’s not getting laid off and he’ll have a pension coming his way.
    • sosodev 3y ago
      I worked for city government once. I hated it. I had zero autonomy and thus zero impact. The team I worked for struggled to accomplish the most basic software tasks. They didn't even use source control. Everybody just zipped project files and emailed them to each other.
      • willcipriano 3y ago
        When I worked for government the team I was on lost members every couple of weeks. Eventually I was the last developer on the team joined by 4 managers. I also gave notice and on my last day they held sprint planning talking about the devolpment work they wanted to complete in the next sprint, they shuffled the tickets around asking me how long I think they will take, after a while I asked "As you all know, today is my last day, wouldn't it be better to look at this once you've hired someone?" and the presenter of the meeting got red faced and quiet and started typing rapidly and loudly. After an awkward silence the meeting abruptly ended and I never heard another word.
      • sshine 3y ago
        A friend works with software for the city. Took him a year of part-time work to get a basic web app made and deployed on Azure. He’d always complain that all his colleagues were incompetent save a few. I asked him why he doesn’t get a more ambitious job, but he likes how little results he can get away with delivering. I wish government jobs paid better.
        • wombat-man 3y ago
          Yeah that's the tradeoff. I like working with very competent people but it's effort every day to stay on top of things.
    • alex_lav 3y ago
      Yeah, people seem to want to nitpick that it's possible for a large, boring, stable company to have layoffs too, which is technically true, but it doesn't take a ton of logic or reasoning skills to conclude that companies that turn a profit will suffer less than companies that don't.
  • ebiester 3y ago
    Large, stable, boring companies lay people off as well. Sadly, there's no escape anymore in the United States. I think it is important to keep a reserve in cash because layoffs are just a part of reality at this point.
    • sgt 3y ago
      They say always keeping $10k in cash is recommended.
      • gabereiser 3y ago
        6 months of expenses is a better target. $10k won’t last long in NYC/LA.
      • swagtricker 3y ago
        The general guideline isn't actually an amount: it's 3 - 6 months worth of living expenses. That is, what it takes to cover housing, transportation, food & utilities. If you're "living paycheck to paycheck" that's a problem, because it means 3-6 months worth of paychecks. Personally, If you're living below your means, I would try to target 6 months to 1 year. Then again, the past 3 years have made me paranoid as hell. Your mileage may vary. FWIW - I sleep a LOT better knowing I've got a year worth of expenses sitting in a high yield savings account. If I lost my job tomorrow? I'd say fuck it and take at least 4-6 weeks off before bothering to look for a job.
    • alex_lav 3y ago
      > Large, stable, boring companies lay people off as well. Yep! But if you're looking for a company that has a better chance at surviving (or thriving) through a downturn, picking a company that actually makes money is generally a better take. See Hashicorp's recent layoffs and recent earnings statements as an example.
  • wonderingyogi 3y ago
    I did the same thing. Found a boring company literally 3 weeks before layoffs started. I saw it from a mile away. So far my job has been stable, but incredibly boring. I could be earning a lot more elsewhere, but given the market, I won't be switching unless there's good reason. WLB is the best I ever had.
• reza8802 3y ago
  Happened to me. Now looking for job. My soul is crushed.
• dieselgate 3y ago
  Not this year but happened to me at the start of COVID. Best of luck to you and keep your head up
• max_ 3y ago
  I have failed to get even an interview in 2 years of Job search. I think my resume might be having many red flags, but it's difficult to find out what exactly. I wish I could get some help on reviewing my resume
  • olddustytrail 3y ago
    Post a link and ask for comments then.
    • mikekij 3y ago
      This. happy to help.
  • mcenedella 3y ago
    www.leetresumes.com - we write your resume for free. you can also email me directly (marc at) and I’ll take a look. if you’re not getting interviews in two years, i’m happy to help advise on best practices.
    • add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
      This looks great, with a reasonable (suggested) price point. I'd love to see a bundle that would fix my neglected LinkedIn profile as well. For additional cost would be fine, if still affordable.
      • mcenedella 3y ago
        I’m not advertising but we do offer that service on our site if you look. Also check the blog for lots of my advice for free.
    • slongfield 3y ago
      Skimming your site, something I didn't see in FAQs--is this human review, or are you currently or planning in the future on using ML to do these rewrites? Not currently in the market, but if I were paying/tipping for a service like this, it'd be important to me that human eyeballs+hands were involved.
• tmoneyplease 3y ago
  [flagged]
• CoastalCoder 3y ago
  I got laid off for the first time ever a few months back. Still looking for a job. Silver lining: it's been really informative to see the ways in which I'm failing interviews. It's painful, but I have enough info for taking corrective measures.
  • xupybd 3y ago
    That's a great attitude you'll get there! Just remember sometimes it's not that you're doing anything wrong. Sometimes it just takes time for an opportunity to open up.
    • CoastalCoder 3y ago
      I appreciate the encouragement, but in my particular case I'm pretty clear on where I goofed: - For two of the positions, I wanted to get more into LLVM (internals) development, but didn't have enough prior experience to get the position. - For one position, I had to give a presentation on some aspects of an LLVM back end. I think my presentation was just too clunky. I used too much of my prep time getting up to speed, leaving not enough time for putting together a reasonable presentation. Or I just didn't know enough about LLVM back ends (at the time) for the position; hard to know. - For one position (Waymo), I did badly on a live programming exercise. I hate them, but it seems clear that I need to spend some Saturdays practicing LeetCode-type problems. At least if I want to work for an Alphabet company.
  • sangnoir 3y ago
    The randomness of interviews is whwt startled me when I started paying attention. Inused tobthink interviewing were meritocratic. But interviews are affected by randomness more than I imagined: interviewer/interviewee's mood, or being asked a hard question that's incidentally similar to something you've tackled can result in different impressions.
    • MPlus88 3y ago
      [dead]
    • 3y ago
• dcastm 3y ago
  Not my case but I thought this might help. I wrote some tips on how to use LinkedIn effectively: https://dylancastillo.co/tips-for-standing-out-on-linkedin/ https://dylancastillo.co/tips-for-standing-out-on-linkedin/ It’s based on published papers about its algorithm + personal experience.
• SCUSKU 3y ago
  Two ex-coworkers were laid off, got new jobs about 1 month after, and then were promptly laid off 3 months later. The good news for them though was that they got 3 months of severance, so they were actually pretty happy with that and ended up traveling on their old company's dime... Me on the other hand, took me 6 months to find a new gig. I did find my job on HN Who's Hiring in January though! Ever since I've been working on https://hnresumetojobs.com https://hnresumetojobs.com to make it easier to find jobs from HN. Maybe it'll help you? Best of luck OP. Keep your head up. You'll find something soon, this is just a transitory period. It's hard not to internalize the negative emotions that come with being laid off, but the reality is it really has nothing to do with your performance at work or worth as a human being.
  • ipaddr 3y ago
    Thanks for paying it forward
  • torial 3y ago
    Hey, I've got a friend who is looking, but for a different role than devs and designers. Otherwise, he'd love to use the tool. Any chance for adding more roles?
    • SCUSKU 3y ago
      Yeah certainly! What kinds of roles would your friend be interested in? Happy to chat on Twitter/email, both in bio :)
• 1270018080 3y ago
  I've been laid off only once this year (thankfully?), still no offers after 4 months of interviewing. I am a mid level engineer and I feel like I am getting knocked out because of experience. It's just stunningly competitive. Summer 2020 was a better market than this.
  • giobox 3y ago
    Assuming you are in the US, 2020 saw the start of one of the most ridiculous hiring markets in the industry's history, so it should perhaps not come as a surprise - Meta alone added 13,000 employees in 2020, increasing headcount 30%. Many others did the same trying to ride that Covid wave during 2020/21 - future years may well look lean in comparison. Summer 2020 seeming good compared to 2023 should not feel surprising given what we know took place in the job market. This stayed hot right into early 2022 too. When large firms like Meta and Google go on giant hiring sprees like we saw in 2020, it indirectly pushes up compensation offers from a lot of other software companies who also had to try to match these deals if they wanted to hire anyone good at all - everyone ends up competing with the large company offers. With those taps turned off, I've certainly noticed offers cooling too.
• gwbas1c 3y ago
  It happened to me once. In my case, the lesson that I took was that I shouldn't have taken the 2nd job. The job had some red flags, but I was uncomfortable saying no. Thus, to apply back to your case: Remember, interviewing for a job is a 2-way street. Screen your employer carefully, and don't be afraid to say no. If you're in a situation where you can't say no, (IE, collecting unemployment,) try to make them say no to you.
  • francisofascii 3y ago
    What were the red flags?
    • gwbas1c 3y ago
      1: All interviews were group interviews with all three founders. 2: They all worked together for almost a decade, since college. 3: They never hired anyone more experienced than them. 4: My technical screening was with a consultant. In a decade they hadn't figured out how to screen. 5: Their stack was mostly "also ran" technology. (IE, they didn't know when to cut their losses and change over.) 6: Their "tech lead" didn't have the title of CTO. When I showed up, this was what I figured out: 1: The manager kept up appearances of consensus driven decisions. (Which was why interviews were never 1-1.) 2: They generally hired inexperienced people so they could control them and not have their decisions challenged. 3: They were dangerously fixed in their ways. It was like they were using Betamax, Commodore, 8-track, ect after those technologies failed, and didn't understand why it was dangerous to bet their company on it. 4: There were glaring, unprofessional, security problems. 5: The "tech lead" really flubbed a lot due to inexperience, but it wasn't obvious due to everyone else inexperience. The "tech lead" needed serious mentoring; but was too used to calling the shots.
• nness 3y ago
  UK professional services industry — lay-offs over the last year were light compared to what I think is coming in the next 6 months. Agencies were first to rapidly downsize just after COVID, and I suspect the larger professional service firms are a few months away from the same treatment. I've always worked in the services industry, and starting to see the same patterns before the agency lay-offs begin in the most established firms. I think any organisation whose either dependant on public sector — or conversely, trying to scale with an operating loss, is in for a shock by year's end.
• qawwads 3y ago
  How's that working? Is it a surprise, like you go to work as you use to and then bang laid off? Or is it more like there are early signs so you think "maybe I should update my résumé but well it won't happen to me" and then it happens?
  • squeegee_scream 3y ago
    Complete surprise. Both closed 100+ million dollar rounds last May and June. Both valued at 1 billion+. Both bragged about their multi year runway days or weeks before layoffs began. Both had plans to grow significantly this year. My take is that the investors told them to do layoffs so they did.
• throwarayes 3y ago
  I’m starting to wonder what the upside of working at a big tech company really is. Stability: no (who knows when the next layoffs will be) Base Pay: maybe (probably higher on average) Stock: maybe - but a complete crapshoot Fulfilling work: maybe, but it could be disrupted by politics, maybe some side feature of a side feature, or you might just get laid off anyway Frankly it’s hard to trust putting your energy into something new after being let go. At least at a small company market performance might be more closely tied to your performance, not random politics or idiotic decisions. Seems you go to a large company to chill out, save up base pay, but not really give it your all as so much is out of your control. Tech companies are shutting down their junior pipelines and turning their most senior talent into burned out careerists who don’t care. They’re managing to mediocrity, not growth. Which honestly maybe makes sense in a non 0 interest rate economy. I just wish they’d be honest about it
  • _8j50 3y ago
    You forgot "resumè" decoration.
  • shaftway 3y ago
    It's the stock, but only when the stock is publicly traded. I have zero trust in the long term outlook of my current firm. My stock vests every 3 months and I sell it immediately. This makes up about half of my total compensation. If the company shows signs of going down I'll cut my losses and go somewhere else, probably when the stock drops to about 50% of my sign-on value. If the company starts going up then I get a nice little bump. I joined Meta last year (and then got laid off 6 months later) right after their huge drop and several people (including my manager) were extremely vocal about how it wasn't fair that I got so many shares of stock. They compute the number of shares you get based on a dollar amount and the share price over the last month. By comparison I feel bad for my brethren at large tech companies that aren't publicly traded. Stripe comes to mind here. My friends there say they've been told "we want to go public, but now just isn't the right time" all the way up until the valuation was cut by a third. Those golden handcuffs must be heavy.
    • throwaway4837 3y ago
• browningstreet 3y ago
  Not this year but twice recently because of externalities: first time day one of COVID, and again recently because of banking crisis. I can’t imagine going back to work for others. I haven’t settled on a plan, but it’s either overseas or self employed, in or out of tech. If I didn’t have a kid I liked spending most of my free time with I’d probably disappear with my modest satchel of gold coins to a remote corner of the world. I used to joke I wanted to do something interesting, innovative, or creative. My POV has changed dramatically.
  • MattPalmer1086 3y ago
    I still love doing things that are interesting, innovative and creative. I just don't tie them to how I earn a living, and I'm much happier overall.
  • ndstephens 3y ago
    Have you actually researched or thought about any specific "remote corners of the world" that you could share?
• mhuffman 3y ago
  I wildly misread the title and was fucking astonished at the feedback.
• jurassic 3y ago
  I know of several people who have experienced this recently either shortly before or shortly after getting a new role. Seeing multiple examples among my acquaintances tells me it's not that uncommon. Seems horrendous that companies can go from hiring to firing in the space of a few weeks, but that's the reality. Generalizing heavily, I think layoff risks looks something like this (from most risky to least risky): 1. Startups in an immediate or medium-term funding crunch. Standards to raise money are much higher now than they were in the recent past, so a lot of companies will likely go bust if they don't trim expenses aggressively. This includes a lot of companies that look relatively legitimate, have users, have nice websites, successful raised multiple times in the past, etc. If you ask them, they will never tell you they are having trouble raising, so you have to do your own research to form an opinion of their funding status. 2. BigCos under pressure from shareholders to grow profitability due to rising interest rates and competition for investor dollars. They have plenty of money to keep people employed, but investors are demanding a pound of flesh. This is why you see share prices surge after layoffs are announced. 3. web3/crypto zombie companies that aren't in dire financial straights yet, but may be pressured to return capital to investors given recent events in the space. You probably don't want to work here anyway. 4. Well-funded startups that raised recently and are actively growing. Any runway issues they have are far enough out that you don't need to worry much today. So my advice is: Pick a startup that raised recently and is building something that looks like it could be a real business with appropriate margins. No web3 crypto scams, no uber-style businesses that can't grow without heavily subsidizing the cost of their service, etc.
  • squeegee_scream 3y ago
    > Well-funded startups that raised recently and are actively growing. Any runway issues they have are far enough out that you don't need to worry much today. I would have agreed with you 6 months ago but this describes both companies I was laid off from this year. Both closed 100+ million dollar rounds last May and June. Both valued at 1 billion+. Both bragged about their multi year runway days or weeks before layoffs began. Both had plans to grow significantly this year. My take is that the investors told them to do layoffs so they did. Which makes me want to work for a bootstrapped company that is growing slowly and will not take investor money
• chrisgoman 3y ago
  How about the reverse of this? Had to let go of 2 people because I do not know how to hire (apparently) as the people I hired looked good on resume, did ok in interview (but I may also be bad at that) but could not really perform the work ("simple" LEMP stack)
  • 1_1xdev1 3y ago
    If it’s for performance, it’s not a layoff. You had to fire them.
  • steve_adams_86 3y ago
    I’m curious, what were your interview strategies? What was it like when relatively simple work wasn’t getting done? Was there much communication, clarity, or accountability, or was it more opaque and drawn out without much communication or transparency around what was getting done? I’ve worked with teams to address those problems in the past, especially in a remote context. It’s really hard, but it’s certainly possible to make it work. In many cases we managed to turn around “bad hires” and get people fairly productive with the right strategies, but it took a lot of work. I wonder if it could be that with so many layoffs, people are applying to and accepting offers for jobs they don’t actually want out of desperation. Perhaps they’re perfectly capable of the work, but they aren’t engaged because they aren’t where they feel like they should be. No intrinsic motivation, thinking about other jobs (maybe even still searching for other jobs), burned out on being unhappy, etc. That’ll turn down performance for most people. It’s hard to say! Having a bad time hiring is legitimately tough to deal with. For you, for the other employees, for the people who end up being fired… It can be turned around, though.
  • chalcolithic 3y ago
    Could you please share what have they got stuck on?
• gregjor 3y ago
  Funny to contrast this with people boasting on HN not too long ago about job-hopping twice a year or more. Loyalty works both ways. After 40+ years programming I never expect much stability or loyalty from employers, though it happens. The tech industry revolves around short-term results, growth at all costs, and pumping the share price, which can work out in the employee's favor, but can also lead to over-hiring and layoff cycles, projects staffed and abruptly canceled, "pivots" as dumb ideas get played out.
  • 0-sodium 3y ago
    Loyalty doesn't go both ways - many of my laid off colleagues had been with the company 10+ years and now are destitute in a very intense labor market.
    • gregjor 3y ago
      I can't speak to individual situations. Many tech companies grew with unsustainable business models, over-hiring, and a focus on growth over sustainable profits. That was obvious over the last decade, the only question was when would the bubble burst. Now we know. I've been through a few boom & bust cycles and layoffs during my career. Some companies care about their employees, and some don't. Employers -- especially in tech -- know their people will jump if they get a better offer, so they treat them accordingly, as interchangeable cogs. Many employers don't value loyalty or their people despite their phony values and mission statements, nothing surprising there. Senior people with 10+ years still have options, the contraction will mostly hurt more junior people. But even seniors will have to reset their expectations: the adult day care/resort spa workplaces will disappear and people who want to get a job will have to look outside of the tech-oriented Silicon Valley sphere. I always fell back on enterprise logistics during tech industry busts -- boring compared to a hot startup, but reliable and profitable.
• shahbaby 3y ago
  After being laid off I had the good fortune to get an offer from a remote first company. Now I'm moving back with my parents in case I get laid off again. There's no way I'm signing a 1 year lease in the current economic environment.
• user7878 3y ago
  I would like to suggest read the book The 100$ Startups book to look beyond the job and starting something on own with minimal investment. https://www.d-pdf.com/book/3816/read https://www.d-pdf.com/book/3816/read
• steve_adams_86 3y ago
  I was working on a contract that was coming to a close, but I had a great rapport with the team and we had been talking about the next project for months with very clear and open dialogue about me sticking sound for it. Suddenly, there was no money for the next project. I wasn’t renewed and quite a few people on the team were laid off. It was a bit of a shock. I suppose it was foolish but I didn’t look for new work for a long time before the contract was ending, so I was completely caught off guard. It has been very strange. I’ve never had a hard time finding work in my 12 years in tech. I’d only ever taken a while to find it due to being selective. I took time off to take care of my youngest son once, took 6 months or so to redirect learning towards embedded software and robotics “just because”, and always got right back to the whole full stack thing when I was ready. I’ve applied to perhaps 30 positions and heard virtually nothing back. Had some great interviews that went cold. I have a feeling my resume is awful and I simply never needed to know that. I’m optimistic though. I’ve always found myself in key roles on teams and provided critical work and guidance, so I know I’m not just some fortunate auxiliary person who happened to make it this far by luck or coincidence alone. With enough perseverance and humility I know I’ll find something. I know all of you who are looking are having a rough time. All I can say is that things will always get harder, but they’ll get better too. After this, some time down the road, there’ll be something else to deal with too. You’ll figure that out just the same as you’ll figure this out. I suppose what matters isn’t what happens or why, but how you respond and move through it. One silver lining is that I’ve been having a ton of fun learning more about things I’ve been curious about and generally furthering my career during downtime in ways I normally don’t get to. It might not seem meaningful or important at the moment, but it always pays off eventually. Plus learning is just fun, and fun is worthwhile. Especially when times are tough! Good luck, everyone.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• roflyear 3y ago
  I have never been laid off (15yrs in the industry) - but it will probably happen at my current company soon, I think.