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India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

AHOHA 3y ago
Regardless of the title or whatever, I noticed the same way how this was conducted (creating a fake image, then a group is used to spread such news, then the sabotage/attack starts), same approach been used in different political tweets, in India, Saudi, Tukey, and even in US, the only difference is in English speaking ones it was quickly to find they were fake and in return who spread it had a credibility issue later, it doesn’t seem to be the case in a non-english ones for some reason. And that approach happened before Musk takeover and after, is it something had to do with the user base mentality or tech literacy, or the way how twitter works, or maybe something else, but I never saw such “swarm” behavior except in Twitter.
satyajeet23 3y ago
Long before A.I. becomes an existential threat, it will thrive in three domains; porn, plagiarism, and this, politically motivated misinformation.
known 3y ago
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throwaway384629 3y ago
Delhi Police arrested the protesting Indian women wrestlers. Various social media handles of IT cell of ruling party shared morphed picture of protesters to show that they were smiling in the police van. https://twitter.com/SakshiMalik/status/1662729269532065792 https://twitter.com/SakshiMalik/status/1662729269532065792
- dmix 3y ago
  Is that an all female police squad?
  - capableweb 3y ago
    > Is that an all female police squad? Not to assume anyone's gender here, but does it look like a all female police squad? https://i.imgur.com/OSnyrFH.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OSnyrFH.jpg
    - ta1243 3y ago
      Unless some AI has doctored the images
      - flangola7 3y ago
        shit on a stick we really can't trust anything
        ta1243 3y ago
        Journalism will have to go back to trusting individual creators. If Joe Bloggs signs an image then at least I know Joe Bloggs asserts that image was correct. If that's a trustworthy person (someone I find trustworthy), that's one way. Of course how well that scales is another matter, but if Joe Bloggs loses my trust then I remove him from my "trusted sources" list. The chain of integrity will be there, defined by more than just a byline. I may trust say Steve Rosenburg to tell me the truth if he posts a picture of something in Moscow, but if he misleads me then he loses that trust. Ultimately it's of no difference to trusting what someone writes or says. I might trust a story with a byline on www.cnn.com, that's one thing. I won't however trust a screen capture of something implying it was shown on CNN. Of course the main stream view for the last 15 years is to believe that journalists are always lying to you and always wrong, which is fine, you just have to accept that if you want to "do your own research" on say what's happening in Turkey with the election, you need to go to Turkey, spend a few years there getting to know and trust many different sources with many different world views.
    - dmix 3y ago
      A squad can exist within a larger group of officers. I didn’t ask if “there only female law enforcement at this event”.
- aluksi 3y ago
  [dead]
  - chakravyuh 3y ago
    She is sarcastically saying, "Congratulations for this new country (India)."
mensetmanusman 3y ago
Someone should make a movie on an alternate history of the civil rights movement failing because of technology like this.
- cookieperson 3y ago
  The problem with all civil rights movements is, any ground gained can be easily removed later. Technology like this is almost the perfect tool for doing so. Buckle up it's not going to be pretty.
temp9807 3y ago
[flagged]
- catchnear4321 3y ago
  just wait until tomorrow!
prhrb 3y ago
Context: The day this happened was the inauguration of new Parliament building of India.
- lagolinguini 3y ago
  The inauguration of the new Parliament building where: - None of the major opposition parties attended - The President and other constitutional heads were not invited - The protesting athletes were arrested - One religion was in the spotlight, as opposed to the Indian brand of secularism where ceremonies of all religions should have been conducted - On the day of Savarkar's (Hindu nationalist) birth anniversary - The PM treating it as a vanity project/personal PR photoshoot
  - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - praveen9920 3y ago
      Ever wondered why these "laws" were not repealed or even questioned by the ruling party in the last 9 years, even with an overwhelming majority in parliament?
      - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
        For the same reason that the Republicans continue believing, in the face of overwhelming evidence, that they have a chance with black voters. No matter what the BJP tries, they will never get more than 10-15% of the Muslim vote. Hindus accept laws contrary to their interests. Muslims come out on the streets and arm twist their political beneficiaries into reversing judgements and acts that they perceive to be against their interests.[1] [1] Shah Bano case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_Begum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_...)
        praveen9920 3y ago
juujian 3y ago
That is getting real freaking dystopian. Sure, we would have been able to do this before, and the Soviet Union did a ton of photo editing. But doing this particular edit must have been so easy. No cost at all, no mental barrier. You would almost think 'why bother'. And before anyone says 'yeah, but the truth came out'. Well, we saw it, but how many of the particular audience of whatever that outlet was will never see the original photo and will never question the narrative they were sold?
- EscapeFromNY 3y ago
  > yeah, but the truth came out The truth came out this time. To borrow from Ozark: this isn't the only time they doctored photos, it's the only time they got caught.
  - lagolinguini 3y ago
    The truth came out too late anyway. The fact that it's been fact checked doesn't matter. People wo want to believe in a certain agenda have already got the misinformation they need, and it's not like they're seeking out other sources to fact check their information. They're not even the target audience of people who are fact checking this misinformation so the damage is already done.
  - matsemann 3y ago
    And those having seen the doctored images wont know (or care) that they were fake.
    - gtirloni 3y ago
      Exactly. Even when a major TV channels was busting fake news in my country, people just switched to other govt-sponsored (bribed?) channel to hear what they wanted to hear. It became a common meme to say that major TV channel has an agenda (and either silence or whataboustism ensues once people are questioned about the actual fake news).
      - 3y ago
tjr225 3y ago
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capableweb 3y ago
> Verified account @wokeflix_ tweeted the same image in a meme > Verified account @randomsena tweeted the same image > Another verified account, @RealAtulsay, tweeted the same image Isn't "Verified" on Twitter just a subscription now, meaning it's just that these people have given Twitter money? Why it matters (in a journalistic sense) who has paid Twitter or not? And why are only some of the verified accounts mentioned as verified accounts, while others are verified but not mentioned as verified? Such a weird article overall.
- comprev 3y ago
  I suspect there is considerable overlap in a Venn diagram of those who never hear about the image being manipulated and those who still think a blue tick is reserved for human-verified accounts.
- matsemann 3y ago
  I think that's their point. It's a way of subtly pointing out that verification on Twitter is now useless, and shouldn't be trusted any more than claims from any other user. Even less, I guess, since it's not a equal distribution of people paying for verification, they all skew pretty hard to one side.
  - ed25519FUUU 3y ago
    That’s probably true for Twitter blue but there appears to be multiple forms of verification, including a government one and an organizations one.
  - tdehnel 3y ago
    Would be great if they just came out and said it, instead of this passive aggressive nonsense.
- jeromegv 3y ago
  Well let’s see what Twitter says about their new blue program Your account must have no signs of being misleading or deceptive Your account must have no signs of engaging in platform manipulation and spam So Twitter is telling us that those accounts should not be deceiving. Yet, they are. https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/about-twitter-verified-accounts https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/about-twit...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
collsni 3y ago
Just the beginning, what happens when it becomes impossible to parse fact and fiction? I mean rsa 2048 can be currently broken in 104 days, and we'll be at quantum levels sooner than we realize. How we validating anything after that? Biometric?
- api 3y ago
  Need a source on RSA 2048 being breakable. QC like that is still quite far off and it can’t be conventionally breakable unless there has been some kind of mathematical breakthrough.
  - collsni 3y ago
    https://www.fujitsu.com/global/about/resources/news/press-releases/2023/0123-01.html https://www.fujitsu.com/global/about/resources/news/press-re...
    - dmbche 3y ago
      We're good! It's a risk assessment - nothing has been broken, but they propose that with a computer with these specs it could be done. I wouldn't worry too much about encryption being easily broken soon.
      - shagie 3y ago
        For those who worry about it, it isn't that it's broken soon, but that it will be broken within a timeframe that the data is still useful. Veritasium : How Quantum Computers Break The Internet... Starting Now - https://youtu.be/-UrdExQW0cs https://youtu.be/-UrdExQW0cs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_now,_decrypt_later https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_now,_decrypt_later
        dmbche 3y ago
        I'm not sure what encrypted data produced today would be relevant in 40 years time? Thinking about how some cases can't be prosecuted since it's been too long since the offence
isanjay 3y ago
BJP is proper Authoritarian. This is coming from a right leaning person.
- lagolinguini 3y ago
  The sad thing is they will probably win again in 2024. The damage that 15 years of BJP has done to the social fabric of India, and the undermining of the core founding principles of the republic will last for generations. It's hard to imagine it going away :(
  - dagmx 3y ago
    I sadly don’t see any true way to move past the BJP. They’ve really captured the minds of the majority. I don’t think any other party has anywhere near the might to stand up to the sheer might the BJP has created, not without compromising their morals. How do you compete with a government that will distort reality like this, where the majority of people won’t listen to the actual truth?
    - isanjay 3y ago
      It's not like other parties have any morals in the first place. Well none of my state parties have morals and sure as hell Congress doesn't have any morals
      - lagolinguini 3y ago
        > It's not like other parties have any morals in the first place. This is the line of thinking that has led to the BJPs success. The fact that people have been convinced that the opposition is not a viable alternative is a shame. While it's true that the opposition has many faults, no other party has undermined the core founding principles of the republic the way the BJP has, except for perhaps Indira Gandhi.
      - dagmx 3y ago
        While Congress and other parties have many faults, they’re still a damn sight better than the party that is trying to degrade human rights for non-Hindus. Sometimes you just need to hold your nose and vote for the best option, even if they’re flawed. The road to a better tomorrow is paved with compromises that get us there.
borissk 3y ago
India slowly joining China, Russia and Turkey as a dictatorship...
- miohtama 3y ago
  Here are two high quality The Economist pieces on India's state of democracy - https://www.economist.com/asia/2022/02/12/the-organs-of-indias-democracy-are-decaying https://www.economist.com/asia/2022/02/12/the-organs-of-indi... - https://www.economist.com/asia/2023/03/27/the-worlds-biggest-democracy-is-becoming-less-free https://www.economist.com/asia/2023/03/27/the-worlds-biggest...
- squarefoot 3y ago
  Italy silently following. Quietly and slowly, so that frogs won't notice the temperature difference. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/23/italy-government-giorgia-meloni-state-broadcaster-rai https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/23/italy-governme... The 1st step in turning a seemingly democratic country in a dictatorship is to control the media. Not the 1st time it happens, but this time it is way more serious. Of course the new dictatorship needs to be soft enough to be palatable for other EU members and NATO allies, therefore I don't expect black shirt patrols with batons attacking people unfriendly to the regime down the street or at their home, at least not in a systematic way like a century ago, yet things are going to suck badly over here if nobody stops those bastards in power ASAP.
- sremani 3y ago
  Hold your horses, this is false equivalence. India is no where near China or Russia, Turkey may be closest thing but that is also kind of false. State governments in India are powerful and that complicates many things.
  - Utkarsh_Mood 3y ago
    Exactly this, The ruling party has literally lost elections in Karnataka, they're very far from exerting unilateral influence on the entire country, much less becoming a dictatorship
dagmx 3y ago
As an NRI, I continue to be disappointed by the country I called home for most of my life. Between the politics and the pollution in Delhi, I fear I can never really return home. The last time I was home, I was struggling every day to breathe because Delhi has crazy air in the winter. While high school friends were telling me about how they don’t believe in equal rights, justifying any means to achieving a Hindu country. This is just one more nail in the coffin of a potentially great, secular country that once dared to v̵o̵t̵e̵ place a g̵r̵e̵a̵t̵ scientist as president. How far we’ve fallen since. I’m just heartbroken over what my country has become. Edit: for the countless fans of India that will show up to tell me how to feel about the country, please don’t. I really don’t care to hear the latest talking point on why Infrastructure is worth human rights abuses or whatever lets you sleep at night. My opinion is my own and you can please pound sand. You are part of what makes me mourn my country.
- pkphilip 3y ago
  I agree. And unfortunately, I think we have reached an inflection point in India from which we cannot go back to the way things were just about 12-15 years ago.
- screye 3y ago
  It is a conundrum, because the same NRIs oppose bills that would solve India's problems. The ban on crop burning (main cause of Delhi's pollution) was central to the farm bill. But protesting farmers (widely supported in the west) opposed it, and the bill died despite having democratic approval (both national opinion and sufficient votes) > dared to vote a great scientist to president We do not vote for Presidents in India. The president was selected by the ruling party (The same BJP as Modi) to be the ceremonial president. The same one that has now elected a tribal woman to President, to signify secular allegiances. > believe in equal rights If we are to use leaders as a yardstick to measure equality opportunities and rights, then the incompetent ~6th generation heir of the Nehru/Gandhi family leading the opposition is hardly a good look. > disappointed by the country I called home for most of my life As a fellow NRI, this is counter to what I hear from my fellow Indians. There is a ton of optimism around jobs, infrastructure growth and economic policies that are finally opening up the nation, as India embraces the US after decades spent close to the Russia. > potentially great, secular country Even as a big supporter of liberal (as in valuing liberty, low authoritarianism) democracies, the evidence for free-democracies industrializing is exactly zero. Every big nation that has successfully escaped poverty has done so through suffocatingly authoritarian means (SK, Japan, Taiwan, Chile, China, Thailand, Malaysia). Every single one of them only transitioned to a proper liberal democracy (if at all) AFTER industrialization had been achieved. It is depressing. But, the numbers don't lie.
villgax 3y ago
Now you'll see how the unabashed right supporters will contort how they got caught as well...
kebman 3y ago
You will be happy. :)
- throwaway384629 3y ago
  Why would anyone be happy with atrocities being committed at people by the government? Do you like such stuff?
  - kebman 3y ago
    It's a play on the phrase, ‘You'll own nothing and be happy” [^1]. Looks like it wasn't especially well received. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_own_nothing_and_be_happy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_own_nothing_and_be_ha...
h2odragon 3y ago
[flagged]
- harryvederci 3y ago
  So only the most dystopian news is newsworthy?
  - h2odragon 3y ago
    Alternately: The West can do no wrong?
    - praveen9920 3y ago
      "They are doing wrong, We will do wrong too" is probably not a great defence.
ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
What's with India and the shift towards the right? I thought it had too many religions and different cultures to pull this off.
- dagmx 3y ago
  India’s promise of secularism has always been fragile. The current party, the BJP, has strong roots in Hindu nationalism. It’s basically taken over a decade but they’ve successfully distorted the promise enshrined in our national anthem of an India for all.
- candiddevmike 3y ago
  I think it's similar to the US. There's some kind of global push towards a flavor of fascism occurring in most democratic countries. https://fpif.org/fascisms-global-spread-is-real-as-real-as-the-spread-of-covid-19/ https://fpif.org/fascisms-global-spread-is-real-as-real-as-t...
- pjc50 3y ago
  Ever since Partition (and indeed before) the Hindu vs Muslim conflict has been a powerful driver of both local violence and national politics.
- throwaway384629 3y ago
  BJP in India does not fight elections based on any development agendas like education/healthcare or social security. They pretends to the majority Hindu public that "Hindus are in danger from Muslims" and only BJP can protect them. They also project themselves as true nationalists and anyone having anti-government views is declared a "Pakistani" or anti-national. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/7/spike-in-anti-muslim-rallies-since-bjp-retook-indias-maharashtra https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/7/spike-in-anti-muslim...
  - throwaway2305ax 3y ago
    Ok, this is not entirely true. - India is the fastest growing large economy in the world - inflation is under control - The infrastructure spend is the largest ever. There's construction everywhere. - life expectancy is significantly up Of course there are issues, but it's a mixed bag. Not all religion.
YetAnotherNick 3y ago
This is not the first time they used AI. In https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbrpkxIfb0M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbrpkxIfb0M they made their Delhi president speak a language he doesn't know.
pimlottc 3y ago
I’m wondering if someone can comment on the cultural aspect here. It seems like adding the smiles was intended to discredit the protesters, by somehow suggesting the protest was insincere. But I feel like you could interpret this the other way too: even in the face of brutal treatment, they maintain a positive and peaceful attitude and don’t let their opponents break their spirits. “Turn the other cheek” and “love your enemy” are very old philosophies, after all. So is there something different about this situation or about Indian politics in general that makes this a damaging attack?
- hiatus 3y ago
  Think to yourself, would a captor modify the images of the imprisoned for a benevolent purpose?
  - pimlottc 3y ago
    Obviously not, that’s not what I’m trying to suggest. Only that it seemed to me — as a non-Indian western observer - like an odd way to discredit them.
- qazpot 3y ago
  > I’m wondering if someone can comment on the cultural aspect here. It seems like adding the smiles was intended to discredit the protesters, by somehow suggesting the protest was insincere. This was to paint them as insincere and implying that protestors are on the payroll of <insert boogeyman here>.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  It's just "they're laughing at you". This is actually interesting to me: possibly the thing that is most annoying to most people, though not all, in most societies is to be suckered. Maybe the next highest is hypocrisy. I wonder if these are universal or if different societies have different "greatest sin". Like, does Japan, unbeknownst to me, have shamelessness as its?
throwaway2305ax 3y ago
The news is accurate, but not particularly newsworthy. This was posted by an unofficial, loosely defined group of accounts called the "IT cell" - not very different from MAGA folks or far-left account clusters. The linked news source (alt news) is an opposition news source/blog.
- kalam_throw 3y ago
  Alt news also reported on the propaganda and falsehoods of Congress and AAP.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- throwaway384629 3y ago
  Mohammed Zubair and Pratik Sinha are Indian journalists and the co-founders of Alt News, an Indian non-profit fact-checking website. They were nominated for the 2022 Nobel Peace Prize. They have fact checked the claims from all political parties. [1] >> Zubair was arrested and incarcerated by the Delhi Police for a month. His detention raised further concerns about the state of India's press freedom under Narendra Modi's premiership and was widely criticized by journalistic bodies, human rights organizations and the political opposition who allege that the arrest was an act of revenge against his role in Alt News' work of combating disinformation.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Zubair_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Zubair_(journalist)
givemeethekeys 3y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Are you asserting the smiling photo is the real one?
  - givemeethekeys 3y ago
    No.
- Nowado 3y ago
  Pointing out the population size of India to suggest it's the measure to use when judging quality of a democracy has yet to be used in context of India behaving like a democracy.
ChatGTP 3y ago
"Hey, we're just trying to democratize art.."
joshspankit 3y ago
How will we verify photos and videos without dissolving in to endless speculation? I’m genuinely asking as this is something I’ve been worried about for a while. The only thing I can think of is storing a hash or “phash” with a trusted third party that can then be used to later verify which image is the original. For video, store the hash/phash of the frames with timestamps. But would that even work? How do you back-verify that something was captured at a specific time when the device was offline during capture?
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
  No, that would not work. You can apply a filter and immediately after compute a hash. For now, the fake pictures are rather easy to spot to a trained eye.
  - joshspankit 3y ago
    > You can apply a filter and immediately after compute a hash. Can you expand on that? I’m not sure what wouldn’t work
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
      >> For video, store the hash/phash of the frames with timestamps. But would that even work? That would not work, because how do you prove that hash has been computed before video manipulation? Already, the imaging chips do some processing, so you never get the original raw image from the CMOS sensor.
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
      >> For video, store the hash/phash of the frames with timestamps. But would that even work? That would not work, because how do you prove that hash has been computed before video manipulation? Already, the imaging chips do some processing, so you never get the true raw image from the CMOS sensor.
      - joshspankit 3y ago
blackoil 3y ago
India is a fine specimen for anyone wanting to observe 1930s-40s first hand. A far right party with a popular/charismatic leader is using religion as a basis to all the problems India faces. We have extra-legal forces acting as vigilantes against people of a community. They have a very strong support in the majority. Media is in totality controlled by ruling party and social media is saturated with noise and false discourse. No other nation will speak against them because of geo-politics and honestly same religion is hated almost everywhere. Though lot more pragmatic and not a globe-capturing maniac, but rest of the world is complimenting for that. I believe we are on a strong path to revisit that event in late 30s though hopeful against it as now 6 million and 2 nukes are rookie numbers.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- ridiculous_leke 3y ago
  The world has gotten well along with dictatorships like China, Saudi Arabia, and Russia (till they directly threatened the West). I am sure they can work with an authoritarian India.
  - lagolinguini 3y ago
    Some of us are Indian and aren't too happy about the authoritarianism...
throwaway384629 3y ago
I would also like to share examples on how Modi Government Jails every honest opposition leader who does development work for general public and gets popular. 2 leaders of Aam Aadmi Party (a primary opponent to PM Modi) are lodged in Jail for months without trial. Same judge appointment by Modi government somehow gets all the cases related to Aam Aadmi Party and orders to extend the judicial custody month after month. Satyendra Jain, the man behind world famous Delhi Mohalla Clinic (Neighbourhood Clinic) is in jail awaiting trial since May 2022 on allegations of money laundering. [1] [2] [3] Manish Sisodia, the man behind public education revolution in New Delhi is in jail awaiting trial since Feb 2023 on allegations of corruption in creating Delhi Excise Policy. [4] [5] [6] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyendra_Kumar_Jain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyendra_Kumar_Jain [2] https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/former-un-chief-ban-ki-moon-is-deeply-impressed-by-delhi-s-mohalla-clinics-project-352628.html https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/former-un-chief-ban-ki... [3] https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/even-kasab-got-a-fair-trial-im-surely-not-worse-jailed-delhi-minister-satyendar-jain-3543750 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/even-kasab-got-a-fair-trial-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manish_Sisodia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manish_Sisodia [5] https://www.timesnownews.com/delhi/nyt-report-lauds-delhi-govts-education-model-sisodia-says-world-praising-kejriwal-administrations-good-work-article-93592306 https://www.timesnownews.com/delhi/nyt-report-lauds-delhi-go... [6] https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2023/mar/21/if-released-he-will-jeopardize-investigation-cbi-opposesmanish-sisodias-bail-plea-2558198.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2023/mar/21/if...
- rajeshp1986 3y ago
  All the leaders you mentioned have accumulated and hoarded cash which was disclosed in IT raids. There is an ongoing investigation on how they sold liquor licenses for cash. They are jailed as per court orders after investigation. [1] - https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/policy/story/liquor-scam-case-special-cbi-court-allows-ed-to-question-delhi-health-minister-satyendar-jain-347318-2022-09-15 https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/policy/story/liquor-scam...
  - throwaway384629 3y ago
cornflake23 3y ago
The intriguing part of such stuff is how the impact of these things is both short and long, such asymmetry of the individual vs the state. At the (population) scale of India, this is particularly heinous. In the near term, it is designed to mislead the public perception. In the long term, it both creates a chilling effect of what consequences protesting may have… and will anyone remember that these pictures were manipulated “for effect” decades from now? Will they fuel other echo chambers? I very much doubt the public understands the precipice (and precedents) that these malicious actions lead us all down.
anonytrary 3y ago
Deep fakes were always a huge concern for me in AI. That's just one way AI can be weaponized, and this example is very clear on the damage caused. Thankfully Twitter quickly corrects the issue, but sadly only because it became viral. Sadly, Twitter won't be able to correct all of the little cases of AI misuse that don't go viral.
yalogin 3y ago
We really need counter research to the commercial AI. Ability to identify or protect against AI modifications is a must have today, or well even yesterday.
jeswin 3y ago
This has devolved into a political discussion unfit for HN. The OP's submission history[1] is almost entirely political, and promoting a specific viewpoint. While I believe it's ok to discuss politics on HN, my view is that accounts that exist solely for political propaganda should be discouraged. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=throwaway384629 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=throwaway384629
- archagon 3y ago
  If politics emergent from SV technology can’t be discussed on HN, then I’d call this community an abject failure.
  - jeswin 3y ago
    My point was that submitters who only submit political articles (in line with their biases) are detrimental to the site. Such articles attract more politically charged engagement, and over time draw in people who care more about politics than tech. The article btw is of questionable newsworthiness; and is a link to a propoganda blog. It's not really an accredited news organization.
    - archagon 3y ago
      That may be true, but most of OP’s posts did not get any traction at all. This one did because it’s relevant to the community.
      - testHNac 3y ago
        Community prefers to be misled on Topics as long as it goes along with their inherent biases.
  - hotsauceror 3y ago
    Why? “This community” worked extremely hard to bring this technology to fruition, and got handsomely rewarded for doing so. The “success” already happened. At least Mr. Altman had the decency to wait until his product had been released before getting up on his moral high horse about the risks of what he’d built, whereas poor Google did the hard work of firing all their AI ethicists and making their priorities clear a while ago, only for them to get scooped on their own technology.
thisisit 3y ago
I am amazed that the title is allowed to stand despite the original title and the content. The origin of the image is unclear. Sure, one can speculate that "India ruling party's IT cell" is behind the morphed image. This is what this comment section is for. But without hard proof the title is as much of an propaganda as are the morphed image. Are we going to tag everything a Democrat does as "US ruling party's" doing?
- Utkarsh_Mood 3y ago
  this, @dang please review the title
- passion__desire 3y ago
  Do you think it is possible for one side to doctor images and make it viral by planting it in the opposition's filter bubble (possibly by your embedded twitter agents) only to be easily outed like Alan Sokal did. We live in interesting times.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  They just shared the pictures right? We aren’t sure if they actually created the pictures, or who they obtained the altered pictures from.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  Exactly. Only recently we had this fiasco (less than a year ago): https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/23/23419366/the-wire-meta-indian-news-outlet-retracts-story https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/23/23419366/the-wire-meta-i... HN was fooled multiple times during that episode. It looks like HN likes being gullible when simple common sense would have prevented that. https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=thewire.in https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=thewire.in
- testHNac 3y ago
  HN has an inherent bias against India and Indians. Just open any of the H1B related posts and you will see how open minded the liberal tech worker of USA is about India and Indians. Of course, they are all for immigration just the H1B brings up debate about 'Quality of Work. Hypocrites. I think the American Narrow Minded view of the World is due to they growing up in a 2 party system that only looks at things as Black and White ( Not the race ), as Right and Wrong ( that's better ). They are basically fed what they are supposed to think by CNNs, NYTs, Guardians etc etc Like Uncle Soros they believe they understand India better than Indians. Uncle Soros wants to bring 'Democracy' to World's largest Democracy, because 1 Billion Indians don't know what they should vote for - They need a White Man to tell them that. . In their own Country they created False Accusations against their President - Published in all 'respected' mainstream Newspapers. United States of Gaslighting is where they are at. Let's see if @dang is open minded enough to do something about the title after 400 upvotes are already made.
jonnycomputer 3y ago
How do we know that the non-smiling images are not the fakes? part of an operation to foment discontent with the ruling party by making a false accusation of dystopian manipulation of photographic evidence? No, I don't think it likely. It's just we live in a world where this kind of stuff is just so easy to do now.
- jwond 3y ago
  The article includes a video showing they were able to use FaceApp on the non-smiling photo to reproduce the smiling photo exactly. They also include analysis comparing the smiling photo to other existing photos of those people smiling and note that in the smiling photo some people are depicted with dimples that the person doesn't actually have.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ridiculous_leke 3y ago
The title is wrong.
guenthert 3y ago
Flashback to The Laughing Man of Ghost in the Shell. Guess, we're getting there.
kloc 3y ago
This account has been constantly submitting anti ruling party articles to demean India. Nothing in the article or proof otherwise which indicates that this was done by the rulling party. A lot of other articles submitted by this "throwaway" account are also questionable.
- throwaway384629 3y ago
  I have backed everything with sources in my posts? Can you point out if anything is not correct? Or do you have a general issue when something is said against ruling party? If you really care about reputation of India, how about advising someone in BJP to prevent this type of things from happening at first place?
  - sanmon3186 3y ago
    Sure let’s start from your post title itself. What “authentic” source do you have that the origin of this is BJP IT cell?
sxhunga 3y ago
If we consider this to be true, then this is a reprehensible act. To prevent this, it is necessary to have a completed legislation for AI (Artificial Intelligence)
neel8986 3y ago
To give more context to outsiders these are olympic medal winning athletes protesting against a serial molester who happens to be part of ruling government. To discredit these athletes ruling government's "IT Cell" is using AI to show they are not sincere enough even after police brutally stopped their protest. No media entity reported on this gross in justice as all of them have already sold their soul. Every time I think Modi's RW government can't go any lower they prove me wrong. World should be worried that soon to be third largest economy is going to ruled by a political force who are inspired by Nazi. These are some of the quotes from Golwalkar who was the brain behind the current militia Golwalkar https://twitter.com/jaskaransandhu_/status/1056950819499753474 https://twitter.com/jaskaransandhu_/status/10569508194997534...
cactusplant7374 3y ago
What software was used?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
aluksi 3y ago
[dead]
wiseleo 3y ago
AI-assisted media manipulation will have an interesting effect on evidence becoming subject to reasonable doubt. Ten years ago, showing a video in court was damning evidence. I expect it to become less so.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Ten years ago, showing a video in court was damning evidence. Courts have dealt with issues of manipulation of content and falsification of provenance of video and photographic evidence for a long time, actually.
EchoReflection 3y ago
I saw this a few weeks ago and I keep coming back to it when I hear about news like this: https://youtu.be/zdlBFOp-jxE https://youtu.be/zdlBFOp-jxE
thatsillyqaguy 3y ago
There was video too, could that be edited as well? What can current AI do?
jtode 3y ago
We're either going to improve our collective critical thinking, or we are... not.
khuss 3y ago
India, under its current leadership of Modi's Hindutva government is a near-term threat to its minorities, opposition and dissenting voices. If it goes unchecked, it won't be long before a global threat emerges. Modi himself is one of the propagators of fake news and hate speech. He dog-whistles his social media army to systematically spread communal division and consolidate Hindu votes. Most of the mainstream media is already under his cronies like Adani. The most recent one to fall is NDTV, which used to be an independent voice. If there is one country to watch out for the misuse of AI for political gains, it would be India especially with elections happening in the next year.
piyush_soni 3y ago
Wait. It's shared here as a matter of fact, is it proven that it was done by some 'IT Cell' of the ruling party? It's HN, not Reddit, Twitter, Facebook or Whatsapp. I'm not denying their existence, but unless it's official or proven information please don't share it here.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jatin085 3y ago
There is no mention of the ruling party (why not simply say BJP?) or IT cell in the news. It seems you are here on Hacker News with only political motivations from your comments and submissions. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=throwaway384629 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=throwaway384629 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=throwaway384629 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=throwaway384629
amriksohata 3y ago
Misleading title, it says the ruling partys IT cell used AI, but no evidence they created it. The article says the image was shared then later deleted by some government ministers. Also altnews.in is zoobear who is known to have edited a clip of Nupur Sharma making remarks against the Islamic prophet and sharing them out of context which put her life at risk. Who fact checks the fact checkers and titles like this?
sxhunga 3y ago
[dead]
OOTY00TYOO 3y ago
[flagged]
testHNac 3y ago
Why is the Title Modified to give a Political angle ? @dang Are you allowed to write that Democrat Party threatened to Blow up Target ? https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/05/26/target-stores-in-utah-receive-bomb-threats-over-pride-month-collection/70262837007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/05/26/target-store... I am sure that will be downvoted into oblivion. But that threat does come from a Democrat Party voter right ? -- HN has an inherent bias against India and Indians. Just open any of the H1B related posts and you will see how open minded the liberal tech worker of USA is about India and Indians. Of course, they are all for immigration just the H1B brings up debate about 'Quality of Work'. Hypocrites. -- I think the American Narrow Minded view of the World is due to they growing up in a 2 party system that only looks at things as Black and White ( Not the race ), as Right and Wrong ( that's better ). They are basically fed what they are supposed to think by CNNs, NYTs, Guardians etc etc Like Uncle Soros they believe they understand India better than Indians. Uncle Soros wants to bring 'Democracy' to World's largest Democracy, because 1 Billion Indians don't know what they should vote for - They need a White Man to tell them that. . In their own Country they created False Accusations against their President - Published in all 'respected' mainstream Newspapers. United States of Gaslighting is where they are at. Let's see if @dang is open minded enough to do something about the title after 400 upvotes are already made.

Regardless of the title or whatever, I noticed the same way how this was conducted (creating a fake image, then a group is used to spread such news, then the sabotage/attack starts), same approach been used in different political tweets, in India, Saudi, Tukey, and even in US, the only difference is in English speaking ones it was quickly to find they were fake and in return who spread it had a credibility issue later, it doesn’t seem to be the case in a non-english ones for some reason. And that approach happened before Musk takeover and after, is it something had to do with the user base mentality or tech literacy, or the way how twitter works, or maybe something else, but I never saw such “swarm” behavior except in Twitter.

satyajeet23 3y ago

Long before A.I. becomes an existential threat, it will thrive in three domains; porn, plagiarism, and this, politically motivated misinformation.

known 3y ago

[dead]

throwaway384629 3y ago

Delhi Police arrested the protesting Indian women wrestlers. Various social media handles of IT cell of ruling party shared morphed picture of protesters to show that they were smiling in the police van. https://twitter.com/SakshiMalik/status/1662729269532065792 https://twitter.com/SakshiMalik/status/1662729269532065792

dmix 3y ago
Is that an all female police squad?
- capableweb 3y ago
  > Is that an all female police squad? Not to assume anyone's gender here, but does it look like a all female police squad? https://i.imgur.com/OSnyrFH.jpg https://i.imgur.com/OSnyrFH.jpg
  - ta1243 3y ago
    Unless some AI has doctored the images
    - flangola7 3y ago
      shit on a stick we really can't trust anything
      - ta1243 3y ago
        Journalism will have to go back to trusting individual creators. If Joe Bloggs signs an image then at least I know Joe Bloggs asserts that image was correct. If that's a trustworthy person (someone I find trustworthy), that's one way. Of course how well that scales is another matter, but if Joe Bloggs loses my trust then I remove him from my "trusted sources" list. The chain of integrity will be there, defined by more than just a byline. I may trust say Steve Rosenburg to tell me the truth if he posts a picture of something in Moscow, but if he misleads me then he loses that trust. Ultimately it's of no difference to trusting what someone writes or says. I might trust a story with a byline on www.cnn.com, that's one thing. I won't however trust a screen capture of something implying it was shown on CNN. Of course the main stream view for the last 15 years is to believe that journalists are always lying to you and always wrong, which is fine, you just have to accept that if you want to "do your own research" on say what's happening in Turkey with the election, you need to go to Turkey, spend a few years there getting to know and trust many different sources with many different world views.
  - dmix 3y ago
    A squad can exist within a larger group of officers. I didn’t ask if “there only female law enforcement at this event”.
aluksi 3y ago
[dead]
- chakravyuh 3y ago
  She is sarcastically saying, "Congratulations for this new country (India)."

mensetmanusman 3y ago

Someone should make a movie on an alternate history of the civil rights movement failing because of technology like this.

cookieperson 3y ago
The problem with all civil rights movements is, any ground gained can be easily removed later. Technology like this is almost the perfect tool for doing so. Buckle up it's not going to be pretty.

temp9807 3y ago

[flagged]

catchnear4321 3y ago
just wait until tomorrow!

prhrb 3y ago

Context: The day this happened was the inauguration of new Parliament building of India.

lagolinguini 3y ago
The inauguration of the new Parliament building where: - None of the major opposition parties attended - The President and other constitutional heads were not invited - The protesting athletes were arrested - One religion was in the spotlight, as opposed to the Indian brand of secularism where ceremonies of all religions should have been conducted - On the day of Savarkar's (Hindu nationalist) birth anniversary - The PM treating it as a vanity project/personal PR photoshoot
- ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - praveen9920 3y ago
    Ever wondered why these "laws" were not repealed or even questioned by the ruling party in the last 9 years, even with an overwhelming majority in parliament?
    - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
      For the same reason that the Republicans continue believing, in the face of overwhelming evidence, that they have a chance with black voters. No matter what the BJP tries, they will never get more than 10-15% of the Muslim vote. Hindus accept laws contrary to their interests. Muslims come out on the streets and arm twist their political beneficiaries into reversing judgements and acts that they perceive to be against their interests.[1] [1] Shah Bano case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_Begum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohd._Ahmed_Khan_v._Shah_Bano_...)
      - praveen9920 3y ago

juujian 3y ago

That is getting real freaking dystopian. Sure, we would have been able to do this before, and the Soviet Union did a ton of photo editing. But doing this particular edit must have been so easy. No cost at all, no mental barrier. You would almost think 'why bother'. And before anyone says 'yeah, but the truth came out'. Well, we saw it, but how many of the particular audience of whatever that outlet was will never see the original photo and will never question the narrative they were sold?

EscapeFromNY 3y ago
> yeah, but the truth came out The truth came out this time. To borrow from Ozark: this isn't the only time they doctored photos, it's the only time they got caught.
- lagolinguini 3y ago
  The truth came out too late anyway. The fact that it's been fact checked doesn't matter. People wo want to believe in a certain agenda have already got the misinformation they need, and it's not like they're seeking out other sources to fact check their information. They're not even the target audience of people who are fact checking this misinformation so the damage is already done.
- matsemann 3y ago
  And those having seen the doctored images wont know (or care) that they were fake.
  - gtirloni 3y ago
    Exactly. Even when a major TV channels was busting fake news in my country, people just switched to other govt-sponsored (bribed?) channel to hear what they wanted to hear. It became a common meme to say that major TV channel has an agenda (and either silence or whataboustism ensues once people are questioned about the actual fake news).
    - 3y ago

tjr225 3y ago

[dead]

capableweb 3y ago

> Verified account @wokeflix_ tweeted the same image in a meme > Verified account @randomsena tweeted the same image > Another verified account, @RealAtulsay, tweeted the same image Isn't "Verified" on Twitter just a subscription now, meaning it's just that these people have given Twitter money? Why it matters (in a journalistic sense) who has paid Twitter or not? And why are only some of the verified accounts mentioned as verified accounts, while others are verified but not mentioned as verified? Such a weird article overall.

comprev 3y ago
I suspect there is considerable overlap in a Venn diagram of those who never hear about the image being manipulated and those who still think a blue tick is reserved for human-verified accounts.
matsemann 3y ago
I think that's their point. It's a way of subtly pointing out that verification on Twitter is now useless, and shouldn't be trusted any more than claims from any other user. Even less, I guess, since it's not a equal distribution of people paying for verification, they all skew pretty hard to one side.
- ed25519FUUU 3y ago
  That’s probably true for Twitter blue but there appears to be multiple forms of verification, including a government one and an organizations one.
- tdehnel 3y ago
  Would be great if they just came out and said it, instead of this passive aggressive nonsense.
jeromegv 3y ago
Well let’s see what Twitter says about their new blue program Your account must have no signs of being misleading or deceptive Your account must have no signs of engaging in platform manipulation and spam So Twitter is telling us that those accounts should not be deceiving. Yet, they are. https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/about-twitter-verified-accounts https://help.twitter.com/en/managing-your-account/about-twit...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

collsni 3y ago

Just the beginning, what happens when it becomes impossible to parse fact and fiction? I mean rsa 2048 can be currently broken in 104 days, and we'll be at quantum levels sooner than we realize. How we validating anything after that? Biometric?

api 3y ago
Need a source on RSA 2048 being breakable. QC like that is still quite far off and it can’t be conventionally breakable unless there has been some kind of mathematical breakthrough.
- collsni 3y ago
  https://www.fujitsu.com/global/about/resources/news/press-releases/2023/0123-01.html https://www.fujitsu.com/global/about/resources/news/press-re...
  - dmbche 3y ago
    We're good! It's a risk assessment - nothing has been broken, but they propose that with a computer with these specs it could be done. I wouldn't worry too much about encryption being easily broken soon.
    - shagie 3y ago
      For those who worry about it, it isn't that it's broken soon, but that it will be broken within a timeframe that the data is still useful. Veritasium : How Quantum Computers Break The Internet... Starting Now - https://youtu.be/-UrdExQW0cs https://youtu.be/-UrdExQW0cs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_now,_decrypt_later https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest_now,_decrypt_later
      - dmbche 3y ago
        I'm not sure what encrypted data produced today would be relevant in 40 years time? Thinking about how some cases can't be prosecuted since it's been too long since the offence

isanjay 3y ago

BJP is proper Authoritarian. This is coming from a right leaning person.

lagolinguini 3y ago
The sad thing is they will probably win again in 2024. The damage that 15 years of BJP has done to the social fabric of India, and the undermining of the core founding principles of the republic will last for generations. It's hard to imagine it going away :(
- dagmx 3y ago
  I sadly don’t see any true way to move past the BJP. They’ve really captured the minds of the majority. I don’t think any other party has anywhere near the might to stand up to the sheer might the BJP has created, not without compromising their morals. How do you compete with a government that will distort reality like this, where the majority of people won’t listen to the actual truth?
  - isanjay 3y ago
    It's not like other parties have any morals in the first place. Well none of my state parties have morals and sure as hell Congress doesn't have any morals
    - lagolinguini 3y ago
      > It's not like other parties have any morals in the first place. This is the line of thinking that has led to the BJPs success. The fact that people have been convinced that the opposition is not a viable alternative is a shame. While it's true that the opposition has many faults, no other party has undermined the core founding principles of the republic the way the BJP has, except for perhaps Indira Gandhi.
    - dagmx 3y ago
      While Congress and other parties have many faults, they’re still a damn sight better than the party that is trying to degrade human rights for non-Hindus. Sometimes you just need to hold your nose and vote for the best option, even if they’re flawed. The road to a better tomorrow is paved with compromises that get us there.

borissk 3y ago

India slowly joining China, Russia and Turkey as a dictatorship...

miohtama 3y ago
Here are two high quality The Economist pieces on India's state of democracy - https://www.economist.com/asia/2022/02/12/the-organs-of-indias-democracy-are-decaying https://www.economist.com/asia/2022/02/12/the-organs-of-indi... - https://www.economist.com/asia/2023/03/27/the-worlds-biggest-democracy-is-becoming-less-free https://www.economist.com/asia/2023/03/27/the-worlds-biggest...
squarefoot 3y ago
Italy silently following. Quietly and slowly, so that frogs won't notice the temperature difference. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/23/italy-government-giorgia-meloni-state-broadcaster-rai https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/23/italy-governme... The 1st step in turning a seemingly democratic country in a dictatorship is to control the media. Not the 1st time it happens, but this time it is way more serious. Of course the new dictatorship needs to be soft enough to be palatable for other EU members and NATO allies, therefore I don't expect black shirt patrols with batons attacking people unfriendly to the regime down the street or at their home, at least not in a systematic way like a century ago, yet things are going to suck badly over here if nobody stops those bastards in power ASAP.
sremani 3y ago
Hold your horses, this is false equivalence. India is no where near China or Russia, Turkey may be closest thing but that is also kind of false. State governments in India are powerful and that complicates many things.
- Utkarsh_Mood 3y ago
  Exactly this, The ruling party has literally lost elections in Karnataka, they're very far from exerting unilateral influence on the entire country, much less becoming a dictatorship

dagmx 3y ago

As an NRI, I continue to be disappointed by the country I called home for most of my life. Between the politics and the pollution in Delhi, I fear I can never really return home. The last time I was home, I was struggling every day to breathe because Delhi has crazy air in the winter. While high school friends were telling me about how they don’t believe in equal rights, justifying any means to achieving a Hindu country. This is just one more nail in the coffin of a potentially great, secular country that once dared to v̵o̵t̵e̵ place a g̵r̵e̵a̵t̵ scientist as president. How far we’ve fallen since. I’m just heartbroken over what my country has become. Edit: for the countless fans of India that will show up to tell me how to feel about the country, please don’t. I really don’t care to hear the latest talking point on why Infrastructure is worth human rights abuses or whatever lets you sleep at night. My opinion is my own and you can please pound sand. You are part of what makes me mourn my country.

pkphilip 3y ago
I agree. And unfortunately, I think we have reached an inflection point in India from which we cannot go back to the way things were just about 12-15 years ago.
screye 3y ago
It is a conundrum, because the same NRIs oppose bills that would solve India's problems. The ban on crop burning (main cause of Delhi's pollution) was central to the farm bill. But protesting farmers (widely supported in the west) opposed it, and the bill died despite having democratic approval (both national opinion and sufficient votes) > dared to vote a great scientist to president We do not vote for Presidents in India. The president was selected by the ruling party (The same BJP as Modi) to be the ceremonial president. The same one that has now elected a tribal woman to President, to signify secular allegiances. > believe in equal rights If we are to use leaders as a yardstick to measure equality opportunities and rights, then the incompetent ~6th generation heir of the Nehru/Gandhi family leading the opposition is hardly a good look. > disappointed by the country I called home for most of my life As a fellow NRI, this is counter to what I hear from my fellow Indians. There is a ton of optimism around jobs, infrastructure growth and economic policies that are finally opening up the nation, as India embraces the US after decades spent close to the Russia. > potentially great, secular country Even as a big supporter of liberal (as in valuing liberty, low authoritarianism) democracies, the evidence for free-democracies industrializing is exactly zero. Every big nation that has successfully escaped poverty has done so through suffocatingly authoritarian means (SK, Japan, Taiwan, Chile, China, Thailand, Malaysia). Every single one of them only transitioned to a proper liberal democracy (if at all) AFTER industrialization had been achieved. It is depressing. But, the numbers don't lie.

villgax 3y ago

Now you'll see how the unabashed right supporters will contort how they got caught as well...

kebman 3y ago

You will be happy. :)

throwaway384629 3y ago
Why would anyone be happy with atrocities being committed at people by the government? Do you like such stuff?
- kebman 3y ago
  It's a play on the phrase, ‘You'll own nothing and be happy” [^1]. Looks like it wasn't especially well received. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_own_nothing_and_be_happy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27ll_own_nothing_and_be_ha...

h2odragon 3y ago

[flagged]

harryvederci 3y ago
So only the most dystopian news is newsworthy?
- h2odragon 3y ago
  Alternately: The West can do no wrong?
  - praveen9920 3y ago
    "They are doing wrong, We will do wrong too" is probably not a great defence.

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago

What's with India and the shift towards the right? I thought it had too many religions and different cultures to pull this off.

dagmx 3y ago
India’s promise of secularism has always been fragile. The current party, the BJP, has strong roots in Hindu nationalism. It’s basically taken over a decade but they’ve successfully distorted the promise enshrined in our national anthem of an India for all.
candiddevmike 3y ago
I think it's similar to the US. There's some kind of global push towards a flavor of fascism occurring in most democratic countries. https://fpif.org/fascisms-global-spread-is-real-as-real-as-the-spread-of-covid-19/ https://fpif.org/fascisms-global-spread-is-real-as-real-as-t...
pjc50 3y ago
Ever since Partition (and indeed before) the Hindu vs Muslim conflict has been a powerful driver of both local violence and national politics.
throwaway384629 3y ago
BJP in India does not fight elections based on any development agendas like education/healthcare or social security. They pretends to the majority Hindu public that "Hindus are in danger from Muslims" and only BJP can protect them. They also project themselves as true nationalists and anyone having anti-government views is declared a "Pakistani" or anti-national. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/7/spike-in-anti-muslim-rallies-since-bjp-retook-indias-maharashtra https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/7/spike-in-anti-muslim...
- throwaway2305ax 3y ago
  Ok, this is not entirely true. - India is the fastest growing large economy in the world - inflation is under control - The infrastructure spend is the largest ever. There's construction everywhere. - life expectancy is significantly up Of course there are issues, but it's a mixed bag. Not all religion.

YetAnotherNick 3y ago

This is not the first time they used AI. In https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbrpkxIfb0M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbrpkxIfb0M they made their Delhi president speak a language he doesn't know.

pimlottc 3y ago

I’m wondering if someone can comment on the cultural aspect here. It seems like adding the smiles was intended to discredit the protesters, by somehow suggesting the protest was insincere. But I feel like you could interpret this the other way too: even in the face of brutal treatment, they maintain a positive and peaceful attitude and don’t let their opponents break their spirits. “Turn the other cheek” and “love your enemy” are very old philosophies, after all. So is there something different about this situation or about Indian politics in general that makes this a damaging attack?

hiatus 3y ago
Think to yourself, would a captor modify the images of the imprisoned for a benevolent purpose?
- pimlottc 3y ago
  Obviously not, that’s not what I’m trying to suggest. Only that it seemed to me — as a non-Indian western observer - like an odd way to discredit them.
qazpot 3y ago
> I’m wondering if someone can comment on the cultural aspect here. It seems like adding the smiles was intended to discredit the protesters, by somehow suggesting the protest was insincere. This was to paint them as insincere and implying that protestors are on the payroll of <insert boogeyman here>.
renewiltord 3y ago
It's just "they're laughing at you". This is actually interesting to me: possibly the thing that is most annoying to most people, though not all, in most societies is to be suckered. Maybe the next highest is hypocrisy. I wonder if these are universal or if different societies have different "greatest sin". Like, does Japan, unbeknownst to me, have shamelessness as its?

throwaway2305ax 3y ago

The news is accurate, but not particularly newsworthy. This was posted by an unofficial, loosely defined group of accounts called the "IT cell" - not very different from MAGA folks or far-left account clusters. The linked news source (alt news) is an opposition news source/blog.

kalam_throw 3y ago
Alt news also reported on the propaganda and falsehoods of Congress and AAP.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
throwaway384629 3y ago
Mohammed Zubair and Pratik Sinha are Indian journalists and the co-founders of Alt News, an Indian non-profit fact-checking website. They were nominated for the 2022 Nobel Peace Prize. They have fact checked the claims from all political parties. [1] >> Zubair was arrested and incarcerated by the Delhi Police for a month. His detention raised further concerns about the state of India's press freedom under Narendra Modi's premiership and was widely criticized by journalistic bodies, human rights organizations and the political opposition who allege that the arrest was an act of revenge against his role in Alt News' work of combating disinformation.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Zubair_(journalist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Zubair_(journalist)

givemeethekeys 3y ago

[flagged]

ceejayoz 3y ago
Are you asserting the smiling photo is the real one?
- givemeethekeys 3y ago
  No.
Nowado 3y ago
Pointing out the population size of India to suggest it's the measure to use when judging quality of a democracy has yet to be used in context of India behaving like a democracy.

ChatGTP 3y ago

"Hey, we're just trying to democratize art.."

joshspankit 3y ago

How will we verify photos and videos without dissolving in to endless speculation? I’m genuinely asking as this is something I’ve been worried about for a while. The only thing I can think of is storing a hash or “phash” with a trusted third party that can then be used to later verify which image is the original. For video, store the hash/phash of the frames with timestamps. But would that even work? How do you back-verify that something was captured at a specific time when the device was offline during capture?

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
No, that would not work. You can apply a filter and immediately after compute a hash. For now, the fake pictures are rather easy to spot to a trained eye.
- joshspankit 3y ago
  > You can apply a filter and immediately after compute a hash. Can you expand on that? I’m not sure what wouldn’t work
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
    >> For video, store the hash/phash of the frames with timestamps. But would that even work? That would not work, because how do you prove that hash has been computed before video manipulation? Already, the imaging chips do some processing, so you never get the original raw image from the CMOS sensor.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
    >> For video, store the hash/phash of the frames with timestamps. But would that even work? That would not work, because how do you prove that hash has been computed before video manipulation? Already, the imaging chips do some processing, so you never get the true raw image from the CMOS sensor.
    - joshspankit 3y ago

blackoil 3y ago

India is a fine specimen for anyone wanting to observe 1930s-40s first hand. A far right party with a popular/charismatic leader is using religion as a basis to all the problems India faces. We have extra-legal forces acting as vigilantes against people of a community. They have a very strong support in the majority. Media is in totality controlled by ruling party and social media is saturated with noise and false discourse. No other nation will speak against them because of geo-politics and honestly same religion is hated almost everywhere. Though lot more pragmatic and not a globe-capturing maniac, but rest of the world is complimenting for that. I believe we are on a strong path to revisit that event in late 30s though hopeful against it as now 6 million and 2 nukes are rookie numbers.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
ridiculous_leke 3y ago
The world has gotten well along with dictatorships like China, Saudi Arabia, and Russia (till they directly threatened the West). I am sure they can work with an authoritarian India.
- lagolinguini 3y ago
  Some of us are Indian and aren't too happy about the authoritarianism...

throwaway384629 3y ago

I would also like to share examples on how Modi Government Jails every honest opposition leader who does development work for general public and gets popular. 2 leaders of Aam Aadmi Party (a primary opponent to PM Modi) are lodged in Jail for months without trial. Same judge appointment by Modi government somehow gets all the cases related to Aam Aadmi Party and orders to extend the judicial custody month after month. Satyendra Jain, the man behind world famous Delhi Mohalla Clinic (Neighbourhood Clinic) is in jail awaiting trial since May 2022 on allegations of money laundering. [1] [2] [3] Manish Sisodia, the man behind public education revolution in New Delhi is in jail awaiting trial since Feb 2023 on allegations of corruption in creating Delhi Excise Policy. [4] [5] [6] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyendra_Kumar_Jain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyendra_Kumar_Jain [2] https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/former-un-chief-ban-ki-moon-is-deeply-impressed-by-delhi-s-mohalla-clinics-project-352628.html https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/former-un-chief-ban-ki... [3] https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/even-kasab-got-a-fair-trial-im-surely-not-worse-jailed-delhi-minister-satyendar-jain-3543750 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/even-kasab-got-a-fair-trial-... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manish_Sisodia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manish_Sisodia [5] https://www.timesnownews.com/delhi/nyt-report-lauds-delhi-govts-education-model-sisodia-says-world-praising-kejriwal-administrations-good-work-article-93592306 https://www.timesnownews.com/delhi/nyt-report-lauds-delhi-go... [6] https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2023/mar/21/if-released-he-will-jeopardize-investigation-cbi-opposesmanish-sisodias-bail-plea-2558198.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/delhi/2023/mar/21/if...

rajeshp1986 3y ago
All the leaders you mentioned have accumulated and hoarded cash which was disclosed in IT raids. There is an ongoing investigation on how they sold liquor licenses for cash. They are jailed as per court orders after investigation. [1] - https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/policy/story/liquor-scam-case-special-cbi-court-allows-ed-to-question-delhi-health-minister-satyendar-jain-347318-2022-09-15 https://www.businesstoday.in/latest/policy/story/liquor-scam...
- throwaway384629 3y ago

cornflake23 3y ago

The intriguing part of such stuff is how the impact of these things is both short and long, such asymmetry of the individual vs the state. At the (population) scale of India, this is particularly heinous. In the near term, it is designed to mislead the public perception. In the long term, it both creates a chilling effect of what consequences protesting may have… and will anyone remember that these pictures were manipulated “for effect” decades from now? Will they fuel other echo chambers? I very much doubt the public understands the precipice (and precedents) that these malicious actions lead us all down.

anonytrary 3y ago

Deep fakes were always a huge concern for me in AI. That's just one way AI can be weaponized, and this example is very clear on the damage caused. Thankfully Twitter quickly corrects the issue, but sadly only because it became viral. Sadly, Twitter won't be able to correct all of the little cases of AI misuse that don't go viral.

yalogin 3y ago

We really need counter research to the commercial AI. Ability to identify or protect against AI modifications is a must have today, or well even yesterday.

jeswin 3y ago

This has devolved into a political discussion unfit for HN. The OP's submission history[1] is almost entirely political, and promoting a specific viewpoint. While I believe it's ok to discuss politics on HN, my view is that accounts that exist solely for political propaganda should be discouraged. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=throwaway384629 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=throwaway384629

archagon 3y ago
If politics emergent from SV technology can’t be discussed on HN, then I’d call this community an abject failure.
- jeswin 3y ago
  My point was that submitters who only submit political articles (in line with their biases) are detrimental to the site. Such articles attract more politically charged engagement, and over time draw in people who care more about politics than tech. The article btw is of questionable newsworthiness; and is a link to a propoganda blog. It's not really an accredited news organization.
  - archagon 3y ago
    That may be true, but most of OP’s posts did not get any traction at all. This one did because it’s relevant to the community.
    - testHNac 3y ago
      Community prefers to be misled on Topics as long as it goes along with their inherent biases.
- hotsauceror 3y ago
  Why? “This community” worked extremely hard to bring this technology to fruition, and got handsomely rewarded for doing so. The “success” already happened. At least Mr. Altman had the decency to wait until his product had been released before getting up on his moral high horse about the risks of what he’d built, whereas poor Google did the hard work of firing all their AI ethicists and making their priorities clear a while ago, only for them to get scooped on their own technology.

thisisit 3y ago

I am amazed that the title is allowed to stand despite the original title and the content. The origin of the image is unclear. Sure, one can speculate that "India ruling party's IT cell" is behind the morphed image. This is what this comment section is for. But without hard proof the title is as much of an propaganda as are the morphed image. Are we going to tag everything a Democrat does as "US ruling party's" doing?

Utkarsh_Mood 3y ago
this, @dang please review the title
passion__desire 3y ago
Do you think it is possible for one side to doctor images and make it viral by planting it in the opposition's filter bubble (possibly by your embedded twitter agents) only to be easily outed like Alan Sokal did. We live in interesting times.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
They just shared the pictures right? We aren’t sure if they actually created the pictures, or who they obtained the altered pictures from.
cscurmudgeon 3y ago
Exactly. Only recently we had this fiasco (less than a year ago): https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/23/23419366/the-wire-meta-indian-news-outlet-retracts-story https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/23/23419366/the-wire-meta-i... HN was fooled multiple times during that episode. It looks like HN likes being gullible when simple common sense would have prevented that. https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=thewire.in https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=thewire.in
testHNac 3y ago
HN has an inherent bias against India and Indians. Just open any of the H1B related posts and you will see how open minded the liberal tech worker of USA is about India and Indians. Of course, they are all for immigration just the H1B brings up debate about 'Quality of Work. Hypocrites. I think the American Narrow Minded view of the World is due to they growing up in a 2 party system that only looks at things as Black and White ( Not the race ), as Right and Wrong ( that's better ). They are basically fed what they are supposed to think by CNNs, NYTs, Guardians etc etc Like Uncle Soros they believe they understand India better than Indians. Uncle Soros wants to bring 'Democracy' to World's largest Democracy, because 1 Billion Indians don't know what they should vote for - They need a White Man to tell them that. . In their own Country they created False Accusations against their President - Published in all 'respected' mainstream Newspapers. United States of Gaslighting is where they are at. Let's see if @dang is open minded enough to do something about the title after 400 upvotes are already made.

jonnycomputer 3y ago

How do we know that the non-smiling images are not the fakes? part of an operation to foment discontent with the ruling party by making a false accusation of dystopian manipulation of photographic evidence? No, I don't think it likely. It's just we live in a world where this kind of stuff is just so easy to do now.

jwond 3y ago
The article includes a video showing they were able to use FaceApp on the non-smiling photo to reproduce the smiling photo exactly. They also include analysis comparing the smiling photo to other existing photos of those people smiling and note that in the smiling photo some people are depicted with dimples that the person doesn't actually have.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ridiculous_leke 3y ago

The title is wrong.

guenthert 3y ago

Flashback to The Laughing Man of Ghost in the Shell. Guess, we're getting there.

kloc 3y ago

This account has been constantly submitting anti ruling party articles to demean India. Nothing in the article or proof otherwise which indicates that this was done by the rulling party. A lot of other articles submitted by this "throwaway" account are also questionable.

throwaway384629 3y ago
I have backed everything with sources in my posts? Can you point out if anything is not correct? Or do you have a general issue when something is said against ruling party? If you really care about reputation of India, how about advising someone in BJP to prevent this type of things from happening at first place?
- sanmon3186 3y ago
  Sure let’s start from your post title itself. What “authentic” source do you have that the origin of this is BJP IT cell?

sxhunga 3y ago

If we consider this to be true, then this is a reprehensible act. To prevent this, it is necessary to have a completed legislation for AI (Artificial Intelligence)

neel8986 3y ago

To give more context to outsiders these are olympic medal winning athletes protesting against a serial molester who happens to be part of ruling government. To discredit these athletes ruling government's "IT Cell" is using AI to show they are not sincere enough even after police brutally stopped their protest. No media entity reported on this gross in justice as all of them have already sold their soul. Every time I think Modi's RW government can't go any lower they prove me wrong. World should be worried that soon to be third largest economy is going to ruled by a political force who are inspired by Nazi. These are some of the quotes from Golwalkar who was the brain behind the current militia Golwalkar https://twitter.com/jaskaransandhu_/status/1056950819499753474 https://twitter.com/jaskaransandhu_/status/10569508194997534...

cactusplant7374 3y ago

What software was used?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

aluksi 3y ago

[dead]

wiseleo 3y ago

AI-assisted media manipulation will have an interesting effect on evidence becoming subject to reasonable doubt. Ten years ago, showing a video in court was damning evidence. I expect it to become less so.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Ten years ago, showing a video in court was damning evidence. Courts have dealt with issues of manipulation of content and falsification of provenance of video and photographic evidence for a long time, actually.

EchoReflection 3y ago

I saw this a few weeks ago and I keep coming back to it when I hear about news like this: https://youtu.be/zdlBFOp-jxE https://youtu.be/zdlBFOp-jxE

thatsillyqaguy 3y ago

There was video too, could that be edited as well? What can current AI do?

jtode 3y ago

We're either going to improve our collective critical thinking, or we are... not.

khuss 3y ago

India, under its current leadership of Modi's Hindutva government is a near-term threat to its minorities, opposition and dissenting voices. If it goes unchecked, it won't be long before a global threat emerges. Modi himself is one of the propagators of fake news and hate speech. He dog-whistles his social media army to systematically spread communal division and consolidate Hindu votes. Most of the mainstream media is already under his cronies like Adani. The most recent one to fall is NDTV, which used to be an independent voice. If there is one country to watch out for the misuse of AI for political gains, it would be India especially with elections happening in the next year.

piyush_soni 3y ago

Wait. It's shared here as a matter of fact, is it proven that it was done by some 'IT Cell' of the ruling party? It's HN, not Reddit, Twitter, Facebook or Whatsapp. I'm not denying their existence, but unless it's official or proven information please don't share it here.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

jatin085 3y ago

There is no mention of the ruling party (why not simply say BJP?) or IT cell in the news. It seems you are here on Hacker News with only political motivations from your comments and submissions. https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=throwaway384629 https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=throwaway384629 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=throwaway384629 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=throwaway384629

amriksohata 3y ago

Misleading title, it says the ruling partys IT cell used AI, but no evidence they created it. The article says the image was shared then later deleted by some government ministers. Also altnews.in is zoobear who is known to have edited a clip of Nupur Sharma making remarks against the Islamic prophet and sharing them out of context which put her life at risk. Who fact checks the fact checkers and titles like this?

sxhunga 3y ago

[dead]

OOTY00TYOO 3y ago

[flagged]

testHNac 3y ago

Why is the Title Modified to give a Political angle ? @dang Are you allowed to write that Democrat Party threatened to Blow up Target ? https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/05/26/target-stores-in-utah-receive-bomb-threats-over-pride-month-collection/70262837007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/05/26/target-store... I am sure that will be downvoted into oblivion. But that threat does come from a Democrat Party voter right ? -- HN has an inherent bias against India and Indians. Just open any of the H1B related posts and you will see how open minded the liberal tech worker of USA is about India and Indians. Of course, they are all for immigration just the H1B brings up debate about 'Quality of Work'. Hypocrites. -- I think the American Narrow Minded view of the World is due to they growing up in a 2 party system that only looks at things as Black and White ( Not the race ), as Right and Wrong ( that's better ). They are basically fed what they are supposed to think by CNNs, NYTs, Guardians etc etc Like Uncle Soros they believe they understand India better than Indians. Uncle Soros wants to bring 'Democracy' to World's largest Democracy, because 1 Billion Indians don't know what they should vote for - They need a White Man to tell them that. . In their own Country they created False Accusations against their President - Published in all 'respected' mainstream Newspapers. United States of Gaslighting is where they are at. Let's see if @dang is open minded enough to do something about the title after 400 upvotes are already made.