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San Francisco’s Financial Crisis
- cft 3y ago"In the city’s Five-Year Financial Plan released in January this year" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_the_Soviet_Union https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_the_Sovie...
- RC_ITR 3y agohttps://www.cbo.gov/publication/58946 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58946
- CalChris 3y agoSourceWatch on California Policy Center https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/California_Policy_Center https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/California_Policy_Cent...
- poorbutdebtfree 3y agoThe fact checkers agree with Source Watch.
- mellosouls 3y agoA left wing pressure group identifies the article publisher as a right wing pressure group. Ok, cool, but whatever the quality of the arguments in the article that's probably not the devastating hammer blow to defeat them.
- pstuart 3y agoMany of their points are valid and should be addressed, but the criticism is rather narrow. Case in point: homelessness. Yes, it's a huge problem, but San Francisco is a dumping ground for the homeless, e.g., other states buy one-way bus tickets for their indigents/miscreants to shift the burden. It's a national issue that needs to be addressed on a national level. Then there was this pandemic thingy, and the WFH shift has decimated the office worker economy. So they blame it all on "crime, vagrancy, and drugs" without any note of the the external pressure helping to create those problems. That said, the pols should always have their feet to the fire on their ability to do their damn jobs and be responsible.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoA lot of states give prisoners open bus tickets on release if they have no one coming to pick them up. They are not technically sending them to LA, SF, Portland, or Seattle, but where else are they going to go? Living outside in LA is much better than doing the same in Houston. But this is another point of the problem: anyone who solves the problem well is bound to just attract more of the problem. People are not immobile, and will move to where they have the best chance of surviving, so if Seattle is rumored to be handing out tiny houses to the unhoused, it will simply attract more of the problem. Whatever local resources are thrown at the problem will not make a noticeable dent in the problem locally (though the national problem will get some small improvement relative to its size).
- pstuart 3y agoMy second paragraph explicitly said it: it's a national issue and can only be solved at that level. It would be collectively cheaper and far more humane to boot.
- politician 3y agoThis is just an excuse for why the party with decades of majority rule has failed to solve problems at the city and state levels. Why would the federal government be able to solve a problem that California has failed to address? California has a larger economy than many nations! The correct solution for individuals is to move out of these mismanaged high density areas.
- fmajid 3y agoSF does not solve the homeless problem, but there is good money to be made in the welfare-industrial complex pretending to help. Salt Lake City, that bastion of left-liberalism (/s) does a much better job, specially at preventing vulnerable people from becoming homeless in the first place. Ultimately SF’s problems are well understood and the solutions as well, but there is no political will to confront the entrenched interests that led to this and an apathetic electorate that does not demand accountability is responsible.
- Convolutional 3y ago> A left wing pressure group identifies the article publisher as a right wing pressure group. If we look at the author section of the website, it lists former members of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, members of the American Enterprise Institute etc. Also the "left wing pressure group" says IRS filings show the Koch brothers fund the CPC. The reader can look at the facts, some on their own web site, and decide if they are a right wing pressure group or not.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- cphajduk 3y agoIf employee wages are a large part of the rising costs, then perhaps the cost of living for living in SF is too high. The cost of living is too high because rent is too high. Since there is so much political contention to building more housing, there is no chance that housing prices will decrease (nobody wants to see their property lose value). Now they are complaining about the problem they caused?!? I don't know if this is ironic, justified or just funny. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
- slater 3y agoThey're a group of right-wing policy consultancy grifters, of course they'd complain.
- proc0 3y agoRight-wing in SF? Sounds like what they'd say given how far left the entire city is.
- jasonwatkinspdx 3y agoNo, this place is a fake think tank that pretends to be neutral but is in fact an arm of ALEC and largely funded by the Koch's: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/California_Policy_Center https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/California_Policy_Cent... Don't fall for easy bullshit and let it lead you to making "dunk" comments that don't actually engage the problems and instead act as thought ending cliches. That's their entire goal.
- proc0 3y agoSounds like conspiracy theories. No dunking, just saying. SF is far left just like Oakland and they both seem to have unique problems other cities aren't experiencing. I could be wrong, but so far I've predicted the downturn and I think it won't get any better unless people start holding the decision-makers accountable (which sounds like it's not going to happen).
- NotYourLawyer 3y ago1. Destroy your tax base by turning your city into a lawless hell hole / homeless paradise. 2. ??? 3. Profit.
- maerF0x0 3y ago2. Try a different strategy
- matrix_overload 3y ago4. Let people flee to other cities, vote based on identity/emotion and then be genuinely surprised why it's doing downhill the same way.
- politician 3y agoEven though it's after 7pm PT, I'm still surprised this managed to make it to the home page.
- simoncion 3y ago> Additionally, retailers have been closing their San Francisco locations in droves, citing crime, homelessness, and drug use... Evidently uncited are * COVID concerns * Rapidly increasing cost of goods and services that remains unmatched by wage increases * Dwindling customer base as people find stores understaffed (thanks, "strategic" layoffs!), understocked, or both and give up and turn to online shopping. * Dwindling customer base as people move the fuck away because they either just can't afford city life anymore, or (thanks to the overall success of the blood-drenched demonstration of the viability of remote work) are no longer forced to pay San Francisco rents to work for Really Solid software/IT companies.
- pengaru 3y ago> > Additionally, retailers have been closing their San Francisco locations in droves, citing crime, homelessness, and drug use... "Walgreens Executive Says Shoplifting Threat Was Overstated" [0] "Recent Retail Closures in U.S. Cities Follow Trends Established Before the Pandemic" [1] Retail is just dying, but of course they're going to blame something other than their own failing / inability to compete with Amazon and the like. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/06/business/walgreens-shoplifting.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/06/business/walgreens-shopli... [1] https://www.planetizen.com/news/2023/05/123289-recent-retail-closures-us-cities-follow-trends-established-pandemic https://www.planetizen.com/news/2023/05/123289-recent-retail...
- inferiorhuman 3y agoWalgreens also just settled with San Francisco over their contribution to the opioid crisis in San Francisco. They also recently fired the security firm* that killed the alleged shoplifter. There's a lot going on with retail both in the Bay Area and nationwide. To pin it on failed San Francisco policy is more than a bit reductivist. * Target hired the same firm to provide armed guards at some of their East Bay stores
- Vervious 3y agoWe should still expect retail to be alive and well in cities, where people aggregate. The JP Morgan Chase institute report cited by [1] looked exclusively at the impact of WFH and covid. With the pandemic now "over", we should expect SF to bounce back, as did NYC (which now has fewer retail vacancies than pre-pandemic) and many other cities. In particular, NYC feels incredibly vibrant right now, more-so than pre-pandemic. Maybe it's because of tourism, which is at 110% of pre-pandemic levels. In comparison, SF feels like it got left behind.
- RC_ITR 3y agoThe problem of these articles is that they lean too far into kicking SF while it’s down, since it felt so invincible before. Same kind of journalism happened in the early 2000s. The problem is that they don’t recognize cyclicality. Arguably the most important startup in decades is headquartered there, the CEO is stating remote work is a mistake, and the CTO is regularly calling SF the best place to start an AI startup. SF will still face problems but a lot of this fiscal hand wringing will likely appear foolish in hindsight.
- onos 3y agoMight be cyclical, or maybe it’s Detroit v2. We will see, hoping the former. https://twitter.com/sfstandard/status/1662145831351336977?s=46&t=b46CypkQBwroZYDseuaaIw https://twitter.com/sfstandard/status/1662145831351336977?s=...
- inferiorhuman 3y ago[flagged]
- onos 3y agoThe old navy is not closing, then?
- RC_ITR 3y agoHaving an old navy in a tourist corridor that does a very bad job of serving local residents is your metric of whether a place is a healthy city or not? I’m sure all those AI specialists will flee now that they can’t get fast fashion jorts on market street. It’s amazing to me that on a forum of supposed hackers, legacy businesses failing is some sort of harbinger of doom. E-commerce won in SF. This forum should be the place celebrating that and asking what’s next for those spaces. Detroit didn’t die because it was a bad place for stores. It didn’t even die. It’s still a huge wealthy area. It declined because people didn’t ask what’s next.
- tomcar288 3y agoThey said SF's budget is 14 billion!! holy crap, that's more money than the GDP of entire countries! and it's still not enough.
- hackernewds 3y agohow is it allocated
- booi 3y ago[flagged]
- refulgentis 3y agoWhats up with the "$5M per black resident" quip?
- AlchemistCamp 3y agoThey were probably referring to this: https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/14/san-francisco-reparation-plans-black-residents https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/14/san-francisc...
- jasonwatkinspdx 3y agoWow.
- fakedang 3y agoFor $2 million, the minimum I would expect is a porcelain throne, not a simple toilet seat.
- inferiorhuman 3y agoThe budget is freely available on their web site. It's worth noting that San Francisco is a consolidated city and county, so the budget covers things that most other cities don't (e.g. public transit, libraries, schools, jails). While there is indeed some consolidation San Francisco is on the hook for two separate law enforcement agencies (police – which are typically the domain of cities and sheriff – which are typically the domain of counties).
- 29athrowaway 3y agoCode of Ur-Nammu (2100 BC): If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed. Code of San Francisco (2023 AD): If you try to prevent robbery, you will be killed. /s
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ahahahahah 3y agoAh yes, 2100BC, the pinnacle of morality.
- 29athrowaway 3y agoAt least the concept of property was feasible.
- WirelessGigabit 3y agoI think they surely can get rid of a lot of city personal. I've moved to a different state and just being in contact with government officials to get things done is just... easier. Something not right? Let's fix it. Let's do this first and then that. General California feeling: you're missing form 5858b. Can't help you. Come back later. Next available appointment: 3 months. Half of their jobs could be filled by using proper software. But instead I have to print it, make an appointment, hand them the form, have them type it in and send it off. That's half of your budget right there.
- monero-xmr 3y agoYou don’t understand. The incentives are all wrong. There is absolutely zero benefit for a bureaucracy to make itself more efficient and require less money each year. No one is incentivized to ensure money is being spent well. The biggest incentive for a lifelong bureaucrat is to increase budget and headcount - the more money and headcount you have, the more important you are. There is never a time when you aren’t requesting more money and more people. If you have money left over at the end of the fiscal year you 100% guarantee you spend it lest your budget is cut rather than increased. I have seen so many bright and starry eyed idealists think they can fix government when they get in. In fact the best man at my wedding / best friend is a DC bureaucrat, and you get him a few beers deep and the stories he tells… My goodness. The money is not being spent well and he is jaded as fuck.
- ed25519FUUU 3y agoCouple that with the fact that it’s nearly impossible to fire people from these jobs, regardless of their competency. Some of the absolute laziest and rude people I’ve ever interacted with are CA government employees who deal with the public.
- monero-xmr 3y agoHow many fucks would you give if it was effectively impossible to get fired? It isn’t exactly surprising. When I worked at McDonald’s decades ago I would have greatly enjoyed telling numerous people to go fuck themselves, but I’m a consummate professional and needed the cash. Now isn’t it crazy that government employees, who ostensibly serve us the tax payers, treat their fellow citizens like shit? A travesty all around but it makes sense when you analyze the incentives.
- rcpt 3y ago[flagged]
- fortran77 3y agoThere are many cities in California that are not having a financial crisis. Stop trying to confiscate homes from people because their neighbors paid too much money for their houses, condos, or apartments and "raised the property value." That's pure evil.
- zjp 3y ago[flagged]
- rcpt 3y agoRight. If revenue came from the land then it couldn't leave so easily.
- rcpt 3y agoNo it's directly related to Prop 13. Without that law we could rely on stable property taxes for public services and infrastructure. But instead we shift the burden of taxation to unstable sources and now here we are https://lao.ca.gov/publications/report/3497#How_Did_Proposition.A013_Change_Local_Governments_Mix_of_Tax_Revenues.3F https://lao.ca.gov/publications/report/3497#How_Did_Proposit...
- fortran77 3y agoIt’s extremely stable. And it raises 2%/year, and gets reset when property changes hands.
- rcpt 3y agoThat doesn't work unless the price of everything else is also fixed at 2%. This isn't a controversial point. Jerry Brown dedicated his entire career to this. The California budget is incredibly unstable because of Prop 13.
- photochemsyn 3y ago[flagged]
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y agoActually the other way around, the festering slum is the city center (Tenderloin, Skid Row, downtown Seattle, downtown Portland etc), but once you get out of the city, it's quite lovely, but with minimal public transportation and ideally far enough that the underclass wouldn't be able to get there without lots of hassle. See Marin, Los Gatos, Atherton etc.
- dehrmann 3y ago> where if deranged homeless people show up, the cops swarm them within a few minutes of their acting out Didn't stop the attack on Paul Pelosi, but he's married to a high-profile politician, so it wasn't a random attack.
- rlt 3y ago> undisciplined spending on programs to address San Francisco’s increasingly severe homelessness crisis. Maybe throwing money at the problem is counter productive? Nah.
- hintymad 3y agoDidn’t it cost $130K to offer just housing to a homeless person? That’s after-tax money. That is, it cost around 3x as much as the US median household income, right? If this is not corruption, I don’t know what is. But wait! People in SF elected the officials, so why should I complain about anything? /s
- jscipione 3y agoChicago and San Francisco were about to default on their debts before the mass reduction of American living standards through currency inflation payouts to state and local governments to make these city budgets solvent again in 2020 and 2021. I’m paying dearly for it, we all are, whether you live in San Francisco or not. I like many Americans are being crushed financially to pay off debts that I had absolutely nothing to do with creating and never supported in the first place.