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IMO Tesla would be better if they focused solely on making good EVs, rather than also trying to become the leader in self-driving. I get that they're trying to
by jyscao 3y ago
IMO Tesla would be better if they focused solely on making good EVs, rather than also trying to become the leader in self-driving.
I get that they're trying to create a wider moat against their competitors, but if their self-driving software are found to have systematic failure modes in them as these internal docs seem to suggest, then that could very well do more harm to their reputation in the long run.
- metalliqaz 3y agoIt's not just the software. They are trying to make due without the kind of sensors that are required to properly sense the immediate environment (LIDAR)
- throwaway894345 3y agoThis may surprise, but LIDAR is a very recent innovation and virtually zero percent of cars (particularly historically) are LIDAR equipped. Binocular vision has a pretty impressive track record.
- fragmede 3y agoNot with electrical brains, unfortunately.
- sushid 3y agoBinocular vision as in human vision? Powered by the human brain? That's vastly different than binocular vision powered by Tesla's rudimentary "AI"
- wavefunction 3y agoThey decided to forgo LIDAR specifically though, it's not that it hasn't been out very long and they haven't adopted it yet. Other car makers have been using it for a while, just as long as Tesla could have if they truly want to be cutting edge.
- jonathankoren 3y agoIt might also come as a surprise that the the lack of a LiDAR, and famously disabling the radar directly relates to Tesla’s poor self driving performance compared to the actual leaders in the area like Waymo and Cruise.
- blendo 3y agoI didn’t think Tesla used binocular (stereoscope) cameras. These comments seem to confirm: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-tesla-have-binocular-vision.283371/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-tesla-have-bino...
- ClumsyPilot 3y agoHuman eye has the dynamic range of 24 F-stops, and best cameras have like 14. That's a difference of several million. Also humans have hearing, and really advanced CPU. Tesla can't tell apart a deadly bollard from a large plastic bag flying in the wind.
- asdff 3y agoHow expensive is LIDAR even? My xiaomi vacuum has LIDAR.
- sidibe 3y agoThey were considerably more expensive the first year Tesla FSD was due to be ready by the end of the year. After that I guess it was deemed easier to do magic with some low quality cameras than get certain people to admit they're wrong and change course.
- throwbadubadu 3y agoCurrent ones still 10-20k, some advances and mass production will lower that further. And there are very different LIDARs (frequency, resolution, range!!), the ones in Smartphones and other small devices work very different.. maybe as different as the ultrasonic sensors in your car vs medical ultrasonic (beware, bad comparison actually).
- mensetmanusman 3y agoCan your vacuum see 300 meters away and plan how to clean the east wing of your estate?
- somehnguy 3y agoMine most likely can’t see 300 meters, but it definitely knows where it is and plans it route, optimizing over time. It’s kinda neat to pick it up in the middle of vacuuming, move it to a different room, then set it back down and watch it go back to where it left off.
- asdff 3y agoI live in an apartment so I've yet to really see the reach of this thing's lidar. It maps the room almost immediately though, then cleans by first lapping the perimeter of an area then does laps to cover the inside of the perimeter like someone mowing grass. The map is cached from the last full cleaning, so if I wanted it to do some spot cleaning I can define an arbitrary rectangle and specify how many passes I want over that spot (one is always enough, the second pass never picks up anything else). I can also control it manually but the controls have some latency from the app. I love this thing, it fills its chamber entirely with cat hair that I wouldn't even see until sending it out. It also tracks maintenance and tells me when sensors or the filter needs cleaning, or if parts like brushes need replacing (haven't needed one yet).
- throwaway894345 3y agoEh, Tesla has already shown the world how to make commercially viable EVs. That's a torch the risk averse legacy auto manufacturers can take up, now that Tesla has done the derisking. Now someone needs to prove out self-driving, even at the risk of some short-term reputational harm. I don't think people realize the life-saving potential in solving this problem.
- LelouBil 3y ago> I don't think people realize the life-saving potential in solving this problem. They shouldn't be harming lives to pursue this.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- virtualritz 3y agoFair enough. But if you think this line of reasoning through, cars should have never been admitted on the road in the first place. The issue I see is lack of transparency. If the % of accidents that can be avoided is provably much higher than those caused by Tesla's self-driving tech, an informed argument could be made in favor or against. But with Tesla withholding the information in the leak there is just FUD around the whole issue instead of facts.
- katbyte 3y agono, no they shouldn't have. At least not without tesla taking full accountability and liability for every accident on autopilot. other manufacturers are slowly rolling out more self driving like tech, AND taking on liability.
- DennisP 3y agoSince GP hasn't responded yet...I think you missed their point. When they said "if you think this line of reasoning through, cars should have never been admitted on the road in the first place," I think they're referring to all cars. When Ford introduced the Model T, it killed plenty of people. Ford was, in your words, "harming lives to pursue this." In the process it revolutionized transportation.
- TheCaptain4815 3y agoElons point on cars being worth 5x as much with self driving shouldn’t be dismissed. If a car that costs $25,000 to manufacture all of a sudden can be driven 40-50 hours a week automatically, how much is that car now worth? So I totally disagree on that end, as do most investors given teslas enormous valuation.
- Finnucane 3y agoIs there a big market for $125,000 cars? Who needs a car 40 hours a week?
- HDThoreaun 3y agoUber
- capableweb 3y agoHow many cars does Uber own? I thought they offloaded all of that pesky "ownership" stuff to their custome.. I mean drivers / coworkers / employees / collaborating business owners / freelancers.
- manquer 3y agoThe point being they could eliminate the human drivers and take the whole revenue instead of sharing it. From ridesharing company PoV right now they are only taking 30%-50% of the revenue, and they have gaps in meeting demand due to resourcing challenges. The business model is pretty solid if self driving taxis work even if its only in urban and suburbs
- kklisura 3y ago> The point being they could eliminate the human drivers and take the whole revenue instead of sharing it. Why would then Tesla even sell such cars if they can just compete and outcompete Uber?
- m463 3y agoI think Elon was thinking that was the way to take cars off the road. own many cars with low utilization vs share fewer cars with high utilization. Personally, I'm surprised that the "Summon" feature wasn't matched by a corresponding "Banish" feature (go away and park yourself)
- mwcremer 3y agoSeems like this might be a much harder problem? At least it is when I try to find a parking place.
- m463 3y agoIt would be nice if there were some "autonomous valet" system where cars could drive into a lot, get an electronic "ticket" at the gate, drive to the disembark location, then autopark in the location on the ticket. valet banish, where nobody drives your car.
- ineedasername 3y agoIn NYC for stops of a few hours or less it would often be cheaper in gas $ to have the car keep driving, circling the local neighborhood, instead of paying for parking.
- bombolo 3y agoHe has to trick the investors with something.
- DennisP 3y agoNote the article says the failure reports are about Autopilot, not FSD which is much more advanced (but still in beta, of course).
- fnord77 3y agosome of tesla's models are being outclassed now that other brands are hitting their stride. The Model X was ranked 16th by car and driver which is pathetic (the impressive BMW iX was #1)
- tuatoru 3y agoThey already have a pretty wide moat in terms of gross margin per vehicle produced. I'd rather they focus on driving down costs - $25000 is already too much for most people.
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- trogdor 3y ago>IMO Tesla would be better if they focused solely on making good EVs, rather than also trying to become the leader in self-driving. I don’t think they are trying to become the leader in self-driving. I think that, too, is smoke and mirrors.
- lofaszvanitt 3y agoThey just have to drop the ML based self driving (since it is a nonsense...) and take the easier path.