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Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies
- chrisbrandow 3y agoI didn’t see a description of the policy in the article. Did I miss it? It would be helpful context.
- mnfx 3y agoShort answer is 3 days a week in the office. Long answer is effectively things will go back to how they were pre-pandemic. Except you now have to average 3 days a week in the office instead of the 5 that it was before. Some people can get exceptions, but it's basically going back to 2019 rules where the default is office. The funny part for me is that if they had of announced these new rules in 2019, they would have been heralded as forward thinking employee first visionaries... but because it is a step back from the temporary COVID rules, it's all pitchforks and walkouts.
- Eisenstein 3y agoOf course, that's why they refuse to give even an inch except when they absolutely have to -- because people will fight to retain something that benefits them much more than they will fight to gain a possible benefit they have never experienced.
- WatchDog 3y agoPrevious discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36038992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36038992 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36037225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36037225
- nancyhn 3y agoHow do the Amazon warehouse workers feel about that? I could guess, but I don't know for sure.
- inetknght 3y agoI would absolutely support warehouse workers who stand up for their own collective bargaining rights.
- gaze 3y agoI’m curious where you’re going with this
- gumballindie 3y ago“If I cant have it neither should you.“ probably. I am not sure whom their thought leaders are but i have been seeing this more often in the recent months on reddit.
- jrflowers 3y agoI agree. “I’m imagining a scenario” is an interesting thing to post.
- paxys 3y agoI imagine it's the usual "someone else's life sucks so yours must suck as well" argument that is used against workers.
- zerbinxx 3y agoI think you’re reading that upside down. Commenter is saying “I think I should be able to work from home, and those who MUST go in (warehouse people) should get extra compensation to pay for the commute”
- Eisenstein 3y agoDivide and conquer, that's where.
- satvikpendem 3y agoWell, you can't remotely pack items in a box.
- 3y ago
- cebert 3y agoI’m so proud of these workers uniting and fighting back on RTO mandates. It has been proven that knowledge workers can work productively and efficiently without being required to be in the office a set number of days.
- Mistletoe 3y agoAI doesn’t mind working in the office and works 24/7, I’d tread lightly here if I was a knowledge worker. There are much worse things than being asked to come to the office to work. Like being told you aren’t needed at all ever again.
- rybosworld 3y agoWhat a nonsensical line of reasoning.
- trts 3y agoare you suggesting that a worker who does not protest an arbitrary mandate to log onto their computer at a specific corporate office building, would receive greater clemency from the management team when the opportunity arises to replace them with automation?
- bcrosby95 3y agoCompanies aren't a charity. The minute knowledge workers can be replaced with AI they will be. Regardless of how much you obey your masters.
- ThorsBane 3y agoWhen that happens, it’s because AI is doing all labor. That point is the singularity.
- VincentEvans 3y agoSilliness. Willingness to come to office, or wear a tie, or carry a briefcase - will have about as much effect on pushing back progress as puffing your cheeks out to blow away a hurricane.
- 3y ago
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y agoAs I said last time "Please remember to turn the servers off when you go on strike".
- viraptor 3y agoThere's a line between a strike and sabotage. That idea is on the wrong side and either a reason to fire you or sue you. I hope nobody seriously considers it.
- some_furry 3y ago"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part! And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it — that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!" - Marco Savio
- __turbobrew__ 3y agoWhen factory workers walk out on strike nothing in the factory gets made. It doesn’t seem insane to me that when engineers walk out the systems they maintain stop working. It would obviously be career suicide to do something like turn off S3 for an hour, but it would definitely make a point.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y agoWhen bus drivers go on strike you cannot continue to use the buses. When air traffic controller go on strike you cannot continue to fly. When teachers go on strike you are forced to stay home and look after your kids (which isn't actually a bad thing). It isn't a strike if you aren't inconveniencing others.
- typon 3y agoThe corporate workers were okay with hearing about the warehouse workers peeing in bottles because they were getting their fat paychecks on time. Remember, capitalists will come for you no matter how comfortable you feel.
- joncp 3y ago> The corporate workers were okay with hearing about the warehouse workers peeing in bottles Were they really? No Amazombies I know felt that way. You're going to need a source for such a claim.
- AgentOrange1234 3y agoAs a corporate worker, I feel equally powerless against both situations.
- tadeegan 3y agoYou can refuse to work for such an evil employer...
- AgentOrange1234 3y agoThat’s true. Everywhere I’ve worked has been evil in one way or another. Amazon is no exception. It also has its bright spots. For now I am willing to disagree and commit.
- smcleod 3y agoBy corporate workers are you suggesting anyone working from home / office? If so - source?
- seattle_spring 3y agoHow exactly do you propose a mid-level software engineer affect the working conditions in a warehouse?
- trophycase 3y ago
- malermeister 3y agoIt's time for tech workers to finally realize that union is not a dirty word.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- andsoitis 3y ago> over return-to-office policies ... though reading the article, it sounds like it is really motivated by a desire to see certain climate change action taken by Amazon.
- neom 3y agoI still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this interview when he said it and I literally pulled my bike over and sat for a half hour or so thinking about what I think about the idea, I'm still not sure what I think. (Intellectual dishonesty or a valid view point?) At least he got me thinking I suppose, heh.
- langsoul-com 3y agoMakes sense given his position. He has a vested interest in his workers coming in. He, unlike others, can afford to be extremely close to the office. There's all benefits and no detriments for his statements.
- throwaway675309 3y agoHis argument also boils down to the idea that since other jobs such as manufacturing require employees to be on site, that all jobs should have the same requirement. Smh... Also the idea of a ruthless capitalistic multibillionaire invoking morality as a defense is just kafkaesque.
- vkou 3y agoI like his argument, and I would like to extend it to something like 'Since some people get through life on a salary of $7.75/hr (Or less), we should take away Elon's billions of dollars.' It'd only be fair - he can, after all, do well without all the comforts and power that his wealth affords him.
- bcrosby95 3y agoBut that would be unfair because it harms Elon. What happens to us doesn't matter, remember? We're all just NPCs.
- spoonjim 3y agoNobody felt entitled to WFH pre-2020. Not sure why a virus changes things
- harimau777 3y agoLikely two factors: The pandemic demonstrated that WFH works. The pandemic made people realize how bad America's world life balance is.
- throwaway2990 3y ago> The pandemic demonstrated that WFH works. Can work. “Works” isn’t correct as it’s obvious that it doesn’t just work. Some people don’t work well remotely. Collaboration is much harder remotely. If you have clear work outlined working from home for some* people can be great cos they can focus well and get shit done and be super productive. Other people cannot focus as well in a non work environment no matter how worky you make it. Being in the office gives them more focus.
- great_psy 3y agoSo seems we should have the option to work from home, or from office. Wouldn’t that fix both groups ?
- throwaway2990 3y ago100% I think in some cases a hybrid approach is best. Like 3-4 days at home and 1 day in the office or bi-weekly day in the office. If live within range. But it all depends on the business and individuals. I just think forced remote or forced in-office is wrong. It should be flexible. My 2c
- p0pcult 3y agoNobody felt entitled to 5 day work weeks before the labor movement, either. So, when are you going back to 7 days in the office, friendo?
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoQuit your jobs, peeps, or unionize. Gotta put your money where your mouth is.
- i2cmaster 3y ago[flagged]
- paxys 3y agoWhy should anyone quit their job? The company is the one who changed the terms of employment. Mass walkouts are a form of collective action, and are a good step towards unionization. Amazon can fire all the participants if they want (but something tells me they are not going to).
- smcleod 3y agoThe companies keep getting away with things like this for three reasons 1) Lack of regulation 2) Lack of consequences 3) They still seem to attract people. The USA has shown very little interest in the first two.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- anothernewdude 3y agoYeah, why fight to improve things when you can self-harm?
- cheeze 3y agoIt's totally just that easy, right? Most folks don't have the privilege of just up and qutting their jobs. Especially in tech right now. Sure, FAANG salaries are high, but many people have mortgages, kids, etc.
- ferjdghfyhff 3y ago[flagged]
- captainkrtek 3y agoIf I recall, the walkout is from noon-1… so… lunch? That’ll show ‘em.
- victor9000 3y agolol, pathetic
- gregwebs 3y agoDuring the pandemic I had an initial meeting with a hiring manager at Amazon that didn’t care that I was multiple time zones away from her office. Even though the official policy was actually return to office when pandemic conditions change. Luckily I didn’t want to go through their interview process- I’m guessing I would have gotten axed in the layoffs for being newer on the team and not being able to come to the office.
- sakopov 3y agoI have a friend who was hired in 2019, moved to a city with Amazon office and then moved back in 2021 while keeping his job. He still works at Amazon and is fully remote indefinitely. From what he had told me, this is only impacting those who work within commuting distance of an Amazon office. Those who were hired as remote employees or relocated during pandemic years were pretty much grandfathered into fully remote roles.
- saagarjha 3y agoI entertained a position at Amazon (that I ultimately didn’t take) that would have been remote. I’m sure that would have changed as I live about half an hour by bike from the nearest office.
- pinkmuffinere 3y agoThis may be the case for your friend’s team, but certainly not everyone. I was hired during the pandemic and was fully remote for 1.5 years, but am now expected to be in office Tuesday-Thursday. If my contact had slightly different wording I believe my situation would be different.
- TexanFeller 3y agoThese protesters are just going to accelerate outsourcing. If companies can't get the benefits of in-office Americans and are forced into having a remote workforce they might as well get them for 1/4 of the price from Central and South America.
- paxys 3y agoIf Amazon could replace workers for 1/4 the price then why haven't they done it already?
- seattle_spring 3y agoThis has been a bogeyman for software engineers for multiple decades, all while salaries have increased considerably.
- moneywoes 3y agoDoes the hockey stick growth of companies like Deel today not change things?
- 908B64B197 3y ago> they might as well get them for 1/4 of the price from Central and South America. Where can I find these mythical Central and South Americans that are "just as qualified as US engineers" and 1/4 of the price? I keep hearing about them, but the only devs I've met who would match that description were very much charging US rates.
- avocabros 3y agoI'd guess that most software work doesn't require super-specialized roles. You can get good quality engineers for generalist tasks (web app dev, API dev, etc.) all over the world. I agree, the end game for remote work for non-specialists isn't an obvious positive for those in HCOL countries
- 908B64B197 3y ago
- shmatt 3y agoSo they are fine with worst in class vesting schedule, pressure cooker, stack ranking, PIP good engineers, disconnected middle managers culture. As long as they can do it from home
- victor9000 3y agoNevermind the arduous conditions they subject warehouse workers to.
- givemeethekeys 3y agoHey, at least being able to work without having someone physically breathe down your shoulder makes everything else more bearable.
- devsda 3y ago> There’s been good energy on campus and in urban cores like Seattle where we have a large presence. We’ve heard this from lots of employees and the businesses that surround our offices. This is not about in office productivity and they are not exactly hiding who and what the real goal of RTO is.
- l33tc0de 3y agoSo will it be a walk out from their home apartment, or will they drive to office and then walk out?
- sacnoradhq 3y agoMy neighbor at AWS did WfH pre-pandemic, went to "100% in-office" for about 3 weeks, and I think is at about 50/50% now. There's no real reason to go into the office without coworkers on the same team. Offices = commute time and expense + noisy distractions - declining perks. Butt-in-seat mentality (BISM) is antiquated.
- klipklop 3y agoThe amount of class warfare here is hilarious. Will you really parrot elite coined phrases like “laptop class?” What even is the laptop class? It’s a meaningless term created so it’s easier to dehumanize a group of people that have a massive salary range. There are WFH making $50k. They are not all vest and resters. Do we really need to make the conversation be about the upper middle class being “lazy” and completely ignoring the fact that these RTO orders come from billionaires?
- geodel 3y agoI mean unless you could somehow dictate the agenda on who can dislike whom, a lot of people can just dislike upper middle class, no?
- scott_w 3y agoBillionaires own the most widely circulated print media in the U.K. so it doesn’t seem impossible that this agenda is being influenced. Especially when those exact papers spilt a lot of ink telling people to “get back to work” despite the fact those people were always working during the pandemic.
- andsoitis 3y ago> Billionaires own the most widely circulated print media in the U.K. It seems natural that whoever owns the “most widely circulated print media” would be rich, no?
- scott_w 3y agoI'm not sure how that would invalidate anything I wrote.
- jensgk 3y agoUnless it is a co-op or nonprofit.
- TheCoelacanth 3y ago
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoLet the people who can work from home work from home. The money saved on office space can be used to increase wages for the people working in warehouses and doing deliveries
- hmmokidk 3y agoRemember at the start of covid. There was no traffic. Even in LA! How does one not yearn for that. I don't get it. Also screw the office, coworkers are so distracting. I don't know how anyone gets anything done. Any amount of chit-chat throws me off and gives me a headache.
- starside 3y agoI hope these return to work policies get outdated. Remote work is the single greatest thing about high speed communication in my opinion. A lot of tech advancement related to computers has proven to be underwhelming. We have fancy 3D games and social media and search engines. None of these things are better than a climbing rope, mountain bike, or good library in my experience.
- xwowsersx 3y agoIf my company's office were close, I would return to it without much of a fight. But my roundtrip commute is over three hours. That changes my entire day/life. That's a lot of time and energy spent and the benefit isn't clear to me, at least not the way the office is currently structured or laid out. Our office is an open office plan and engineers are near sales and others whose job is to chat on the phone all day, making it nearly impossible to get any deep work done. The reality is that on the rare occasion that I do go to the office, no real work gets done. Constant interruptions, I maybe get 30 minutes of uninterrupted, heads down work done. There is so much socializing and roaming around and eating that goes on at the office. When I'm home, I'm just working all day. Being in the office is kind of cushy, actually. But a) I'd rather do my best work and b) I'm willing to work harder at home if it means I can avoid spending a large chunk of my day commuting. I think companies really need to make the office a place you _want_ to come to. Give me a space that's conducive to work. Make the office feel more inviting than home. Simply saying "you all need to be in the office" just isn't going to cut it. I know I've conveyed a few unrelated ideas here, but that's my ramble. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk :P
- pnt12 3y agoI just take my rare (and voluntary) office days as socialization days: more talking, longer lunch hours, longer breaks. Its fine once in a while but I don't wanna get back to WFO again.
- xwowsersx 3y agoYeah I'm exactly the same way. I assume they are just days for face time and no deep work will be getting done. As you said, fine, maybe even necessary, every once in a while.
- antoniuschan99 3y ago• The laptop class is literally just white collar workers • Remote work was the thing that kept the economy going during the pandemic and now phrased as morally wrong • Flying Private is morally wrong in that it creates so much pollution from a small group of people
- liampulles 3y agoHere in South Africa, with electricity outages every few hours, driving through traffic with disabled traffic lights is a nightmare. So glad my job is fully remote.
- dajtxx 3y agoWhy aren't these people walking out in support of the warehouse workers who are in much worse straits?
- mensetmanusman 3y agoWork from home hunting for the family, then Work from home farming the fields, then Work from factory away from home, then Work from home away from factory, (We are here)
- maxehmookau 3y ago"You need to be in the office because you will collaborate better" is corporate code for "we're unwilling to build up our internal documentation to make it possible to do your jobs without serendipitous meetings with colleagues which is actually an admission of our own organisational failures" Change my view. The remote working genie is out of the bottle. Trying to push it back in is pointless.