20 ms·

Regent – Electric coastal travel

454 points by beefman 3y ago

rustyconover 3y ago
What if a slow moving sailboat came across this plane’s path? If it is using ground effect it couldn’t climb much.
- RandallBrown 3y ago
  I imagine you'd just go around it.
- AYBABTME 3y ago
  Realistically you'll see that sailboat in advance.
  - olyjohn 3y ago
    At 100+mph?
    - AYBABTME 3y ago
      My sailboat uses radar, I can see things from a good distance away. Let's say 30NM. Surely the plane will do better. But let's say it's going 180mph, or ~160kts. That's 11min from first radar contact to collision. With all that forewarning, avoiding a yacht isn't a big deal. If they can't avoid it, they can stop with 11min warning. Let's say visual only. There will be restrictions on visibility for visual flight rules. So say that they can only fly with more than 10NM of visibility. That's still 3m45s to take action. Surely enough.
      - roflyear 3y ago
        Just for others here, this is very misleading: 1) Sailboats (even moderately sized ones) often do not show on radar at all. 2) 30nm is probably way too optimistic, at a height of 50ft your line of sight is only about 8-9nm. Radar is LOS. 3) 11m is a terrifyingly short time, even if this was all correct 4) you can't identify things based on radar alone, and there's no way you can make out what something is even at 5nm. 5) there's no way you can see a boat at 10nm lol
        Brusco_RF 3y ago
        > 11m is a terrifyingly short time, even if this was all correct Is it? How much warning do you get when a car brakes in front of you on the highway? In 11m you could write a report on how to avoid the collision prior to actually performing the maneuver
        roflyear 3y ago
        Cars have lanes etc.. it's very different on the water. Hard to tell often if someone is going to hit you or not. Distances are nearly impossible to judge.
    - wthalheimer 3y ago
      Yes we'll have several sensor systems onboard that augments the captains visual perception, including radar, AIS, and we're looking into computer vision systems as well. We've been testing these sensor suites in helicopters today. Flying <50 ft off the water at speeds in excess of 100 mph, simulating the seaglider operating conditions. We have plenty of time to detect and avoid traffic even in crowded waterways at speed.
- lovemenot 3y ago
  It cannot sustain flight above the GE altitude. Presumably it can bounce a bit.
- ok_dad 3y ago
  There are rules of the road for seafaring which apply even to these types of craft. A sailboat usually wins over a powered craft.
  - fnord77 3y ago
    so if a sailboat suddenly veers into the path of this thing, what is it going to do? Collide or ditch "GEVs may be unable to climb over or turn sharply enough to avoid collisions, while drastic, low-level maneuvers risk contact with solid or water hazards beneath. Aircraft can climb over most obstacles, but GEVs are more limited. "
    - noitpmeder 3y ago
      Realistically these things aren't going to be operated in-flight anywhere close to the proximity of other craft. They'll motor from dock out to a predefined and clear[able] "runway". Once you're clear of a port most stretches of open water are mostly empty (even those within sight of shore) -- it should definitely be possible to plot "cruising-altitude" courses that never place you within (N) of a hazard. And if there is ever any uncertainty or doubt about incoming situations you can always drop down to a safer mode to chart a new course.
      - nradov 3y ago
        No. All of the major ferry routes they are proposing to serve already have a significant amount of vessel traffic. Seaglider operators will have to obey the rules of the road to avoid collisions just like any other boat.
        wthalheimer 3y ago
        Kind of a mix of both really. Anywhere near significant boat traffic (e.g. in harbors), we'll be on our hydrofoils at speeds of 20-50 mph. So in these environments, we're just another boat (albeit a very comfortable, wave tolerant one) We dont leave the foil to takeoff onto our wings until we leave the harbor. This doesnt need to happen on "runways" though. We'll already be at takeoff speed (~50mph) as we're leaving the harbor, so we really just jump out of the water whenever we choose to. This way we dont need to clear long stretches of water for a "runway", which has limited seaplane operations. Absolutely agree: Seaglider operators will have to obey the rules of the road to avoid collisions just like any other boat. WIGs are actually already in the COLREGS (we're last in line for right of way, but on the list!), and our sensor systems will ensure that seaglider captains have excellent situational awareness.
- fnord77 3y ago
  good point - a collision with an obstacle would probably be as fatal as plane taking off colliding with something. This is bound to happen and can't really be controlled.
- alistairSH 3y ago
  The ground effect vehicle goes around the sailboat in most circumstances. There are rules of the sea that dictate who has right of way when passing in given directions. And there are rules they apply to vehicles of differing maneuverability. A sailboat wins over most boats (except extremely large ships or ships doing work - fishing, tending buoys, etc). It’s not a big deal. If the sailboat is crossing paths with this, it just tweaks direction to the stern of the sailing vessel. If they’re heading straight at each other, they pass port-to-port (left to left).
- dancottrell 3y ago
  The vehicle is limited to ground effect due to regulatory limitations and because it provides efficiency benefits but not physically. There are different classifications of WIGs, class B allows for hops over things so this could be a future option. In reality a sailboat is a pretty easy thing to avoid. Since its basically flat on the water, there aren't many large obstructions to line of sight and something like a sailboat is moving much slower relative to seagliders. It will be a simple “see and avoid” maneuver with ample time to react!
  - wthalheimer 3y ago
    To be clear, seagliders are limited to ground effect in that it is physically impossible for the captain to remove the vehicle from ground effect. The flight control system locks the vehicle to within a wingspan of the surface.
    - schoen 3y ago
      What would happen aerodynamically if your vehicles got out of ground effect? Would they stall pretty much immediately?
    - roflyear 3y ago
      Either recreational boating has to be eliminated or your thing will never work.
  - roflyear 3y ago
    180mph is insanely fast on the water. A sailboat even as big as it is will be hard to spot.
- runeb 3y ago
  Also, related to sailing or boating near this craft, the noise level must be quite substantial. At least not comparable to passing other boats
biomcgary 3y ago
In the video, it looks like it is fly above the typical ground effect height (1 wingspan or less).
- dancottrell 3y ago
  It flies within 0.5-1 wingspan. The subscale has been flying within half a wingspan.
- rektide 3y ago
  Yeah that one of the first things I noticed. Some comments from founder: > Typical flight altitudes are 10-30ft above the wave peaks. The waves are well below us. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053497 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053497 And discussing how they are not getting as much WIG effect for that, but still significant savings (Vs what, an airplane? How does that compare versus other marine transport?) > The benefit of ground effects are: - 10-20% range extension (agreed, between 50% and 100% wingspan, which is where seagliders fly, the aerodynamic benefit of ground effect is reduced compared to near surface flight) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053471
Reason077 3y ago
What are the operating limits in terms of weather? At only 10m above the surface, I assume bad things could happen in stormy conditions! I'm guessing these will be best suited to sheltered areas and fair-weather tourist operations?
- DizzyDoo 3y ago
  That was certainly the case for the older ground effect craft like the ekranoplan[0] (which is a very interesting read), but perhaps there are important differences/improvements with this far, far more modern model? [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  It has three modes of operation: hull, hydrofoil and flight in ground effect. So it can operate as a slow boat, a fast boat or a ground effect plane. I imagine in bad weather it would switch to a slower mode.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
    Bad weather usually means big waves as well, so that complicates "just go slower" particularly when it comes to the foil mode. This is what's killed the practicality of previous ground effect aircraft but perhaps they've found the right niches for this one.
    - wthalheimer 3y ago
      Previous ground effect craft absolutely were killed by their poor wave tolerance. That's where our hydrofoils come in. 5ft of wave tolerance through the harbors and in takeoff and landing. Means we can operate with very high confidence and high utilization in most markets.
      - sgtnoodle 3y ago
        You mentioned not needing reserve energy because you're able to land anywhere along the flight path. Does that mean you can safely land and float in waves higher than 5ft, even if it isn't necessarily pleasant for passengers or good for the vehicle?
lacker 3y ago
It would be pretty fantastic if this could go San Francisco to Los Angeles. A traditional plane flight takes so long at the airport, it ends up barely worth it. High speed rail in California would also be great, but they've been working on it for 15 years already, and at this rate, it doesn't look like the project will finish in the next 50 years.
- kylehotchkiss 3y ago
  Even San Francisco to some of the smaller CA/OR coastal towns would open up a lot of vacation potential. I really hope this seaplane works out!
  - tootie 3y ago
    Or crossing the Long Island Sound.
- baron816 3y ago
  Yeah a high speed ferry of Fisherman’s Wharf > Monterey > SLO > SB > LA > SD would be incredible. I’d pay a nice premium for that.
  - schoen 3y ago
    It seems like if they didn't have to deal with San Francisco Bay, these speeds could get them to Monterey in a bit over half an hour (!!). But I bet navigating safely across the Bay and under the Golden Gate Bridge (probably in "hull" mode) could end up being a comparable amount of time in its own right. Having all that other marine traffic around in all directions (and maybe stricter noise restriction) is a big limitation.
- andrewgodwin 3y ago
  Unfortunately, at their stated range of 160nm, you're looking at only getting as far as Big Sur before the entire craft needs a recharge - it's much more aimed at island and port hopping, I suspect, than long distance travel. Still, I am excited to see ground-effect vehicles/ekranoplans back in vogue!
robbywashere_ 3y ago
How about a boring ass electric train
- dancottrell 3y ago
  Take the train to a port then take a seaglider to an island!
- asynchronous 3y ago
  Nobody wants to talk about the real solutions that are boring apparently
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    Is it a real solution when for some strange reason it's impossible to build them? Also I love trains. I moved back to Miami and there is a train called Brightline that goes from Miami to Orlando. It's extremely nice and my preferred mode of travel. Imagine if we had a bullet train that just spanned the entire east coast...
    - throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
      Eminent domain isn't that popular anymore unfortunately. Florida being one large empty red state, it's a lot easier to muscle 500 miles of new track into what's already there. To go up the whole east coast you'd have to wrestle with a half dozen different political machines. Even just limited to Florida, the line hasn't gotten past West Palm (yet), and was stalled for years due to lawsuits from just 2 counties.
      - pstuart 3y ago
        Not the most popular opinion, but I believe it could be a net win for all: https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/railroad-nationalization-public-ownership/ https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/railroad-national... The analogy that comes to mind is airports.
    - 3y ago
ggm 3y ago
We've sold over 467 seagliders with a $7.9B order backlog spanning global aviation and ferry customers. I would think this is pre-launch sales. It's probably hedged with "subject to certification" risk, but it's still pretty solid, and if it came with sufficient deposit fundings to bootstrap the assembly line, all to the good. But, my understanding is that both boats and aircraft (and this is a join over the two) incur pretty high compliance costs for insurance and regulatory certification. Its a long slow process, it is not as simple as "do it in the USA and it's done" by any stretch. (their FAQ says: "REGENT’s seagliders are regulated as maritime vessels, not airplanes.") Many transport manufacturing startups come unstuck with actually making product. Real-world consequences to advanced materials, the massive cost-suck of making the goods repeatably buildable without a huge tail-cost of remediation, digging out from development cost, it's a nightmare. I'd love this to work, Having flown as a passenger on small aircraft island hoppers in New Caledonia to get to Isle des Pins and like places in other countries, There definitely is a niche for "get from A to B, with sea between" which this suits. It's also possible there's a set of marine/air conditions this is better than aircraft for: it stays below 100m would make it much easier to "fly" in some conditions. Equally, if its really only coastal/lake waters and not when its more than 2m swell (arbitrary figure for example purposes) then its launch conditions could be highly variable. Could this to Vancouver to the Island? The Island to The Olympic peninsula? Seattle into the sound? Could it make the Catalinas from California coastline? Or Baja Cali to the "mainland" of Mexico?
- mark242 3y ago
  > Could it make the Catalinas from California coastline? Yes -- but there is probably no business case where that makes sense. Presumably your launch points are San Pedro/Long Beach, Dana Point, or maybe Redondo. In all three cases, if you want to get to Avalon within 15 minutes, you're paying for the helicopter service. If you're okay with taking an hour, you're paying for the existing boat shuttles, which take a whole lot more than 12 people at a pop and you're able to experience the environment -- it is not uncommon to run into pods of dolphins, whales, etc, on the trip over to Avalon. In theory, you could open up a shuttle service to Avalon from San Diego, or Santa Barbara. Maybe there's enough demand there, but again the 12 person limit makes it probably a money loser. You'd have to charge so much that people would just make the 90-minute drive to Long Beach and shuttle over from there.
fnord77 3y ago
"In high winds, take-off must be into the wind, which takes the craft across successive lines of waves, causing heavy pounding, stressing the craft and creating an uncomfortable ride. In light winds, waves may be in any direction, which can make control difficult as each wave causes the vehicle to both pitch and roll. The lighter construction of GEVs makes their ability to operate in higher sea states less than that of conventional ships, but greater than the ability of hovercraft or hydrofoils, which are closer to the water surface. The demise of the conventional seaplane was a result of its inability to operate in rough sea conditions even while flying conditions were good, and its use lasted only until runways were more commonly available. GEVs are similarly limited."
- wthalheimer 3y ago
  That's what distinguishes seagliders from a GEV! We read the wikipedia article before setting off on this path too ;) Seagliders are different from all GEVs (aka WIGs) and seaplanes of the past because of our hydrofoils. They lift us out of the water on stilts giving us 5ft of wave tolerance. We accelerate to takeoff speed on the foils (which lets us point into the wind even through waves) and then takeoff onto the wing and settle into ground effect. Float -> Foil -> Fly
graycat 3y ago
I'm reminded of the Boeing 314 "Clipper" flying boat, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper Apparently it did have range enough for, say, between LA and SF, non-stop.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  One famous specimen flew SF to NY, but the long-way around[1] (and obviously not non-stop) 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Clipper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Clipper
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
notho 3y ago
[dead]
ferjdghfyhff 3y ago
[flagged]
wthalheimer 3y ago
Hey guys - Billy Thalheimer, Co-founder and CEO of REGENT here. A friend reached out to say this is blowing up - so cool! (Thank you beefman lol) Here to answer any questions
- chasebank 3y ago
  How do foils deal with kelp or a casual whale?
  - wthalheimer 3y ago
    We're exploring foil-mounted sensors (e.g. sonar) for whale (and manatee, turtle, etc) detection. So far in our 1/4 scale experiments, the foils have shed kelp pretty well. Kelp is something the America's Cup boats and even hydrofoil ferries (like in Japan and Hong Kong) have dealt with and solved.
- wendyshu 3y ago
  What exactly is coastal travel?
  - zamnos 3y ago
    Travel near the coast where waves are limited in size. That means this thing won't be going from SF or LA to Hawaii any time soon.
    - darwinwhy 3y ago
      > That means this thing won't be going to Hawaii any time soon. They claim Mokulele as one of their customers so presumably they can travel between some of the islands.
      - wthalheimer 3y ago
        Oh ya we have open water covered. Coastal travel = coastal destinations. The trips themselves can be coastally proximal or over open water.
lastofthemojito 3y ago
I was initially skeptical, but seeing Mokulele Airlines (an airline serving Hawaii) flash by on the carousel made me consider that this might have at least some real-world uses. It's insane to me that the vast majority of inter-island travel in Hawaii (an archipelago where generally each island is visible from the next) is via jet aircraft. You have to spend hours (especially if you're checking bags) getting to the airport early, going through security, waiting at the gate, taxiing, etc ... for a 20 minute flight. There used to be a ferry between Oahu and Maui but it got killed due to real and perceived environmental impact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry A light electric ferry service like this, directly between say, Ala Wai and Lahaina harbors, skipping airport/TSA nonsense, could be a very successful premium product. I just hope from there it could be scaled up so that it wouldn't remain just a niche offering for the rich.
- qingcharles 3y ago
  Crazy. Suspended due to "the potential to bring drugs and homeless people to Kauaʻi".
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    Not at all. It seems they suspended it because of neverending lawsuits regarding environmental impact. Chopping up whales was apparently a big concern, so I suppose a ground effect service might alleviate some of those concerns(just kidding, I'm sure the environmental lawsuits were really just about control and not a genuine care for the environment)
    - pnpnp 3y ago
      That’s a great point, and also kind of insane to think about. The area around Maui has TONS of whales part of the year… many of them breaching. I wonder how high these things fly vs how high a humpback can jump out of the water. I think the rule is 1/2 of your wingspan to be in ground effect, but it has been a long time since I’ve studied the exact numbers.
  - 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jordemort 3y ago
I'd love to see this in Lake Michigan doing a route from Milwaukee through Chicago and all the way up to Traverse City, with stops at all the cool little towns on the Michigan lakefront along the way. Probably not viable as a year-round thing around here but it could be great fun in the summer.
simonw 3y ago
If you haven't encountered wing-in-ground-effect vehicles before I have a treat in store for you... go and read about the Soviet Lun-class ekranoplan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan Then check out this Livejournal post where someone snuck into a dry dock and took photos of a rusty old one... including photos taken inside! https://igor113.livejournal.com/51213.html https://igor113.livejournal.com/51213.html
- wthalheimer 3y ago
  The greatest intro to an investor email interested in REGENT that I have ever received: "I would love to tell you that my first job was working under my Uncle Ros (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostislav_Alexeyev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostislav_Alexeyev) as we meticulously broke down and redesigned his life's work from the ground up, but unfortunately that's not true" - Coby Fleener
- mkoubaa 3y ago
  I've been fascinated by erkanoplans for a while! I bet we could even use them to travel over ice sheets in the Arctic and antarctic
- jeffybefffy519 3y ago
  rctestflight on youtube has a great series on ground effect vehicles: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXvxJNOIXBsMyYPykdtoWRj1m5DRn4CNx https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXvxJNOIXBsMyYPykdtoWRj1m...
- mxuribe 3y ago
  Reading this thread, and seeing the Regent was mildly cool...but per your links i dug deeper, and wow amazing! It made me appreciate what the Regent (and others) are doing around this mode of travel; so cool! Thanks for sharing!
temp123789246 3y ago
Does this require a pilots license? (Couldn’t find the answer after skimming the website)
- Sugimot0 3y ago
  It falls under the supervision of the coastguard apparently as a boat "that happens to fly". Not sure how they were able to swing that one, but it's pretty impressive.
happyjack 3y ago
I can tell by all the comments that not many people here are pilots or work with the FAA on type certification lol
- piloto_ciego 3y ago
  I was a professional pilot for years until I got sick and also did all sorts of work with getting FAA stuff approved, and I even have a float rating as well. The FAA certification is going to be a bastard here, for sure. I think it can be done, but I am pretty sure the feds still classify WIG aircraft as aircraft, which means it will be a major challenge to get all the new technologies certified. All it takes is money… Still, I would absolutely have loved stuff like this when k was working in SE Ak. This could dominate those markets. And you don’t really need for it to be instrument flying if it can never get that high…
  - happyjack 3y ago
    Good to see a pilot here! I personally never see this aircraft ever getting certified. The SR22 was over $100 million total when getting their type certificate, and nothing was "ground breaking." It has a continental motor, Garmin avionics, NACA defined wing, etc. Sure, it's a composite and has a parachute, but I wouldn't call the design anything "revolutionary." It's going to take hundreds of millions and an act of god to get this through the FAA. I don't see it taking the twin otter's place anytime soon. edit: WIG out of FAA jurisdiction. Hope the Coast Guard is better to deal with!
    - piloto_ciego 3y ago
      Like I said, all it takes is money! Lol. Good though that it’s a “boat” for legal purposes that will make things much easier.
w10-1 3y ago
What's the legal authority permitting "seagliders" to carry passengers but escape aviation regulations? Or to use navigable waterways at high speed when other maritime users are severely restricted in speed? I doubt any historical exceptions would stand up to significant use. What's the real benefit? Actual ground effect is strong but very, very limited - to about the width of the wing. The (wallowing) demo flight is well above ground effect. Also, the demo's downswept wingtips provide a lot of the "ground effect" benefit. Most importantly, all of this could be done more cheaply and reliably with internal combustion engines. Why hasn't it already been done, if the demand is so strong? Sorry, but the technical and legal loopholes seem way too small to thread.
- wthalheimer 3y ago
  No loophole nor exceptions - we're following guidance from the International Maritime Organization on the maritime regulation of Type A WIGs (https://wwwcdn.imo.org/localresources/en/OurWork/Safety/Documents/MSC.1-CIRC.1592.pdf https://wwwcdn.imo.org/localresources/en/OurWork/Safety/Docu...), which have been upheld by flag states all around the world. The benefit of ground effects are: - 10-20% range extension (agreed, between 50% and 100% wingspan, which is where seagliders fly, the aerodynamic benefit of ground effect is reduced compared to near surface flight) - Drastic reduction in reserve fuel. This is a key limitation of electric aircraft because they need to sustain powered flight to another airport in the event of an emergency. We can always land on the water, therefore, we can count all of our batteries towards "mission useable" These two effects combine to give seagliders double the range of any electric aircraft - 180 miles with existing battery technology. We use hydrofoils to solve for the wave tolerance and maneuverability problems that plagued past WIGs and made them commercially unviable. To take-off directly from hydrofoils before they cavitate, we had to slow take-off speed to ~50 mph, which drove us to a "blown wing" design that distributes propulsion over the wing, "blowing" the wing with high speed air and therefore creating high lift even at low speeds. Very difficult to distribute propulsion with IC engines or mechanical linkages. Electric propulsion technology unlocks the blown wing, which unlocks the use of hydrofoils, which unlocks wave tolerance and therefore operations of WIGs, which unlocks longer range of electric flight. It all works together. And electrification is generally good: both for the planet and for ticket prices
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Don’t ground effect planes have issues with big waves? I’m trying to figure out what coastal routes would look for this, open ocean is pretty rough in general.
jakemcgraw 3y ago
Depending on the number of trips per day, this has the potential to greatly reduce summertime traffic from tristate region to Cape Cod / Nantucket / Martha's Vineyard / LI North Shore / Montauk.
lchengify 3y ago
Have you looked at the Seattle area / PNW as a use case at all? I imagine the geography would be perfect for a solution like this. Seattle has a pretty extensive ferry system that they are in the process of electrifying [1]. It's great for what ferries are, but I would love more options between islands. Some of the less popular options are limited seasonally, I imagine this is a matter of economics. Also I can tell you that the ferries to / from Victoria Island fill up fast and require reserving slots in advance if you have a car. It's also a 3-ish hour ride that can be very unpleasant if you hit bad weather. I've often driven the long way around rather than do that trip. [1] https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/major-projects/ferry-system-electrification https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/major-projects/fe...
- waiseristy 3y ago
  Other than Lake Washington, the sound is stereotypically windy. Ground effect vehicles don’t work real well in windy / choppy conditions Though it seems like they have some special sauce which makes their aircraft behave better in these conditions
noiese 3y ago
Can this be used for traveling between SF and Palo Alto over the bay?
nroach 3y ago
How do you avoid bird strikes? At least near me, seabirds +180mph ground effect seems problematic
fdhfdjkfhdkj 3y ago
[dead]
gntech 3y ago
Somewhat similar idea to Candela P12, electrical hydrofoil ferry https://candela.com/p-12-shuttle/ https://candela.com/p-12-shuttle/
cwkoss 3y ago
How safe are these? I feel like a big wave could destabilize, then hitting the water at 180mph would be bad news.
faangiq 3y ago
Rare to see an actually cool startup these days - congrats!
golemiprague 3y ago
[dead]
micheljansen 3y ago
I'm hoping this takes off (unintended pun, but I'll leave it in). Nibble away at use cases for hydrocarbon-powered jet flights with alternatives like these until there's nothing left and/or we have a sustainable alternative for what remains.
euroderf 3y ago
Finland would like to hear from you. IMO the use case is not so different from Hawai'i.
yafbum 3y ago
It says it will go up to 180 mph... am wondering how the ride feels at that speed. Open water areas can be a pretty turbulent place in terms of wind, and I imagine that flying so fast and so low would feel a bit scary when the wind swings you around
eranation 3y ago
TIL about Ground Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(aerodynamics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(aerodynamics)
tgtweak 3y ago
Could you not have a solar drone barge for a fast charge mid-trip, extending the operating range by double? Seems like a simple way to bridge the gap until higher battery density is available. For a 360 mile trip, adding 45 minutes for a fast charge (in certain this could be reduced to <25 minutes with modern battery architecture) would still net you out much faster than an train or short haul flight inclusive of airport time on both ends. This brings LA->SF journey well within reach.
sagarm 3y ago
Could these provide connectivity across SF Bay using mostly existing infrastructure? Enabling a 15 minute SF-San Jose connection would be pretty impressive.

454 points by beefman 3y ago

rustyconover 3y ago

What if a slow moving sailboat came across this plane’s path? If it is using ground effect it couldn’t climb much.

RandallBrown 3y ago
I imagine you'd just go around it.
AYBABTME 3y ago
Realistically you'll see that sailboat in advance.
- olyjohn 3y ago
  At 100+mph?
  - AYBABTME 3y ago
    My sailboat uses radar, I can see things from a good distance away. Let's say 30NM. Surely the plane will do better. But let's say it's going 180mph, or ~160kts. That's 11min from first radar contact to collision. With all that forewarning, avoiding a yacht isn't a big deal. If they can't avoid it, they can stop with 11min warning. Let's say visual only. There will be restrictions on visibility for visual flight rules. So say that they can only fly with more than 10NM of visibility. That's still 3m45s to take action. Surely enough.
    - roflyear 3y ago
      Just for others here, this is very misleading: 1) Sailboats (even moderately sized ones) often do not show on radar at all. 2) 30nm is probably way too optimistic, at a height of 50ft your line of sight is only about 8-9nm. Radar is LOS. 3) 11m is a terrifyingly short time, even if this was all correct 4) you can't identify things based on radar alone, and there's no way you can make out what something is even at 5nm. 5) there's no way you can see a boat at 10nm lol
      - Brusco_RF 3y ago
        > 11m is a terrifyingly short time, even if this was all correct Is it? How much warning do you get when a car brakes in front of you on the highway? In 11m you could write a report on how to avoid the collision prior to actually performing the maneuver
        roflyear 3y ago
        Cars have lanes etc.. it's very different on the water. Hard to tell often if someone is going to hit you or not. Distances are nearly impossible to judge.
  - wthalheimer 3y ago
    Yes we'll have several sensor systems onboard that augments the captains visual perception, including radar, AIS, and we're looking into computer vision systems as well. We've been testing these sensor suites in helicopters today. Flying <50 ft off the water at speeds in excess of 100 mph, simulating the seaglider operating conditions. We have plenty of time to detect and avoid traffic even in crowded waterways at speed.
lovemenot 3y ago
It cannot sustain flight above the GE altitude. Presumably it can bounce a bit.
ok_dad 3y ago
There are rules of the road for seafaring which apply even to these types of craft. A sailboat usually wins over a powered craft.
- fnord77 3y ago
  so if a sailboat suddenly veers into the path of this thing, what is it going to do? Collide or ditch "GEVs may be unable to climb over or turn sharply enough to avoid collisions, while drastic, low-level maneuvers risk contact with solid or water hazards beneath. Aircraft can climb over most obstacles, but GEVs are more limited. "
  - noitpmeder 3y ago
    Realistically these things aren't going to be operated in-flight anywhere close to the proximity of other craft. They'll motor from dock out to a predefined and clear[able] "runway". Once you're clear of a port most stretches of open water are mostly empty (even those within sight of shore) -- it should definitely be possible to plot "cruising-altitude" courses that never place you within (N) of a hazard. And if there is ever any uncertainty or doubt about incoming situations you can always drop down to a safer mode to chart a new course.
    - nradov 3y ago
      No. All of the major ferry routes they are proposing to serve already have a significant amount of vessel traffic. Seaglider operators will have to obey the rules of the road to avoid collisions just like any other boat.
      - wthalheimer 3y ago
        Kind of a mix of both really. Anywhere near significant boat traffic (e.g. in harbors), we'll be on our hydrofoils at speeds of 20-50 mph. So in these environments, we're just another boat (albeit a very comfortable, wave tolerant one) We dont leave the foil to takeoff onto our wings until we leave the harbor. This doesnt need to happen on "runways" though. We'll already be at takeoff speed (~50mph) as we're leaving the harbor, so we really just jump out of the water whenever we choose to. This way we dont need to clear long stretches of water for a "runway", which has limited seaplane operations. Absolutely agree: Seaglider operators will have to obey the rules of the road to avoid collisions just like any other boat. WIGs are actually already in the COLREGS (we're last in line for right of way, but on the list!), and our sensor systems will ensure that seaglider captains have excellent situational awareness.
fnord77 3y ago
good point - a collision with an obstacle would probably be as fatal as plane taking off colliding with something. This is bound to happen and can't really be controlled.
alistairSH 3y ago
The ground effect vehicle goes around the sailboat in most circumstances. There are rules of the sea that dictate who has right of way when passing in given directions. And there are rules they apply to vehicles of differing maneuverability. A sailboat wins over most boats (except extremely large ships or ships doing work - fishing, tending buoys, etc). It’s not a big deal. If the sailboat is crossing paths with this, it just tweaks direction to the stern of the sailing vessel. If they’re heading straight at each other, they pass port-to-port (left to left).
dancottrell 3y ago
The vehicle is limited to ground effect due to regulatory limitations and because it provides efficiency benefits but not physically. There are different classifications of WIGs, class B allows for hops over things so this could be a future option. In reality a sailboat is a pretty easy thing to avoid. Since its basically flat on the water, there aren't many large obstructions to line of sight and something like a sailboat is moving much slower relative to seagliders. It will be a simple “see and avoid” maneuver with ample time to react!
- wthalheimer 3y ago
  To be clear, seagliders are limited to ground effect in that it is physically impossible for the captain to remove the vehicle from ground effect. The flight control system locks the vehicle to within a wingspan of the surface.
  - schoen 3y ago
    What would happen aerodynamically if your vehicles got out of ground effect? Would they stall pretty much immediately?
  - roflyear 3y ago
    Either recreational boating has to be eliminated or your thing will never work.
- roflyear 3y ago
  180mph is insanely fast on the water. A sailboat even as big as it is will be hard to spot.
runeb 3y ago
Also, related to sailing or boating near this craft, the noise level must be quite substantial. At least not comparable to passing other boats

biomcgary 3y ago

In the video, it looks like it is fly above the typical ground effect height (1 wingspan or less).

dancottrell 3y ago
It flies within 0.5-1 wingspan. The subscale has been flying within half a wingspan.
rektide 3y ago
Yeah that one of the first things I noticed. Some comments from founder: > Typical flight altitudes are 10-30ft above the wave peaks. The waves are well below us. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053497 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053497 And discussing how they are not getting as much WIG effect for that, but still significant savings (Vs what, an airplane? How does that compare versus other marine transport?) > The benefit of ground effects are: - 10-20% range extension (agreed, between 50% and 100% wingspan, which is where seagliders fly, the aerodynamic benefit of ground effect is reduced compared to near surface flight) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36053471

Reason077 3y ago

What are the operating limits in terms of weather? At only 10m above the surface, I assume bad things could happen in stormy conditions! I'm guessing these will be best suited to sheltered areas and fair-weather tourist operations?

DizzyDoo 3y ago
That was certainly the case for the older ground effect craft like the ekranoplan[0] (which is a very interesting read), but perhaps there are important differences/improvements with this far, far more modern model? [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan
bryanlarsen 3y ago
It has three modes of operation: hull, hydrofoil and flight in ground effect. So it can operate as a slow boat, a fast boat or a ground effect plane. I imagine in bad weather it would switch to a slower mode.
- jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
  Bad weather usually means big waves as well, so that complicates "just go slower" particularly when it comes to the foil mode. This is what's killed the practicality of previous ground effect aircraft but perhaps they've found the right niches for this one.
  - wthalheimer 3y ago
    Previous ground effect craft absolutely were killed by their poor wave tolerance. That's where our hydrofoils come in. 5ft of wave tolerance through the harbors and in takeoff and landing. Means we can operate with very high confidence and high utilization in most markets.
    - sgtnoodle 3y ago
      You mentioned not needing reserve energy because you're able to land anywhere along the flight path. Does that mean you can safely land and float in waves higher than 5ft, even if it isn't necessarily pleasant for passengers or good for the vehicle?

lacker 3y ago

It would be pretty fantastic if this could go San Francisco to Los Angeles. A traditional plane flight takes so long at the airport, it ends up barely worth it. High speed rail in California would also be great, but they've been working on it for 15 years already, and at this rate, it doesn't look like the project will finish in the next 50 years.

kylehotchkiss 3y ago
Even San Francisco to some of the smaller CA/OR coastal towns would open up a lot of vacation potential. I really hope this seaplane works out!
- tootie 3y ago
  Or crossing the Long Island Sound.
baron816 3y ago
Yeah a high speed ferry of Fisherman’s Wharf > Monterey > SLO > SB > LA > SD would be incredible. I’d pay a nice premium for that.
- schoen 3y ago
  It seems like if they didn't have to deal with San Francisco Bay, these speeds could get them to Monterey in a bit over half an hour (!!). But I bet navigating safely across the Bay and under the Golden Gate Bridge (probably in "hull" mode) could end up being a comparable amount of time in its own right. Having all that other marine traffic around in all directions (and maybe stricter noise restriction) is a big limitation.
andrewgodwin 3y ago
Unfortunately, at their stated range of 160nm, you're looking at only getting as far as Big Sur before the entire craft needs a recharge - it's much more aimed at island and port hopping, I suspect, than long distance travel. Still, I am excited to see ground-effect vehicles/ekranoplans back in vogue!

robbywashere_ 3y ago

How about a boring ass electric train

dancottrell 3y ago
Take the train to a port then take a seaglider to an island!
asynchronous 3y ago
Nobody wants to talk about the real solutions that are boring apparently
- brigadier132 3y ago
  Is it a real solution when for some strange reason it's impossible to build them? Also I love trains. I moved back to Miami and there is a train called Brightline that goes from Miami to Orlando. It's extremely nice and my preferred mode of travel. Imagine if we had a bullet train that just spanned the entire east coast...
  - throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
    Eminent domain isn't that popular anymore unfortunately. Florida being one large empty red state, it's a lot easier to muscle 500 miles of new track into what's already there. To go up the whole east coast you'd have to wrestle with a half dozen different political machines. Even just limited to Florida, the line hasn't gotten past West Palm (yet), and was stalled for years due to lawsuits from just 2 counties.
    - pstuart 3y ago
      Not the most popular opinion, but I believe it could be a net win for all: https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/railroad-nationalization-public-ownership/ https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/railroad-national... The analogy that comes to mind is airports.
  - 3y ago

ggm 3y ago

We've sold over 467 seagliders with a $7.9B order backlog spanning global aviation and ferry customers. I would think this is pre-launch sales. It's probably hedged with "subject to certification" risk, but it's still pretty solid, and if it came with sufficient deposit fundings to bootstrap the assembly line, all to the good. But, my understanding is that both boats and aircraft (and this is a join over the two) incur pretty high compliance costs for insurance and regulatory certification. Its a long slow process, it is not as simple as "do it in the USA and it's done" by any stretch. (their FAQ says: "REGENT’s seagliders are regulated as maritime vessels, not airplanes.") Many transport manufacturing startups come unstuck with actually making product. Real-world consequences to advanced materials, the massive cost-suck of making the goods repeatably buildable without a huge tail-cost of remediation, digging out from development cost, it's a nightmare. I'd love this to work, Having flown as a passenger on small aircraft island hoppers in New Caledonia to get to Isle des Pins and like places in other countries, There definitely is a niche for "get from A to B, with sea between" which this suits. It's also possible there's a set of marine/air conditions this is better than aircraft for: it stays below 100m would make it much easier to "fly" in some conditions. Equally, if its really only coastal/lake waters and not when its more than 2m swell (arbitrary figure for example purposes) then its launch conditions could be highly variable. Could this to Vancouver to the Island? The Island to The Olympic peninsula? Seattle into the sound? Could it make the Catalinas from California coastline? Or Baja Cali to the "mainland" of Mexico?

mark242 3y ago
> Could it make the Catalinas from California coastline? Yes -- but there is probably no business case where that makes sense. Presumably your launch points are San Pedro/Long Beach, Dana Point, or maybe Redondo. In all three cases, if you want to get to Avalon within 15 minutes, you're paying for the helicopter service. If you're okay with taking an hour, you're paying for the existing boat shuttles, which take a whole lot more than 12 people at a pop and you're able to experience the environment -- it is not uncommon to run into pods of dolphins, whales, etc, on the trip over to Avalon. In theory, you could open up a shuttle service to Avalon from San Diego, or Santa Barbara. Maybe there's enough demand there, but again the 12 person limit makes it probably a money loser. You'd have to charge so much that people would just make the 90-minute drive to Long Beach and shuttle over from there.

fnord77 3y ago

"In high winds, take-off must be into the wind, which takes the craft across successive lines of waves, causing heavy pounding, stressing the craft and creating an uncomfortable ride. In light winds, waves may be in any direction, which can make control difficult as each wave causes the vehicle to both pitch and roll. The lighter construction of GEVs makes their ability to operate in higher sea states less than that of conventional ships, but greater than the ability of hovercraft or hydrofoils, which are closer to the water surface. The demise of the conventional seaplane was a result of its inability to operate in rough sea conditions even while flying conditions were good, and its use lasted only until runways were more commonly available. GEVs are similarly limited."

wthalheimer 3y ago
That's what distinguishes seagliders from a GEV! We read the wikipedia article before setting off on this path too ;) Seagliders are different from all GEVs (aka WIGs) and seaplanes of the past because of our hydrofoils. They lift us out of the water on stilts giving us 5ft of wave tolerance. We accelerate to takeoff speed on the foils (which lets us point into the wind even through waves) and then takeoff onto the wing and settle into ground effect. Float -> Foil -> Fly

graycat 3y ago

I'm reminded of the Boeing 314 "Clipper" flying boat, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper Apparently it did have range enough for, say, between LA and SF, non-stop.

aidenn0 3y ago
One famous specimen flew SF to NY, but the long-way around[1] (and obviously not non-stop) 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Clipper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Clipper

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

notho 3y ago

[dead]

ferjdghfyhff 3y ago

[flagged]

wthalheimer 3y ago

Hey guys - Billy Thalheimer, Co-founder and CEO of REGENT here. A friend reached out to say this is blowing up - so cool! (Thank you beefman lol) Here to answer any questions

chasebank 3y ago
How do foils deal with kelp or a casual whale?
- wthalheimer 3y ago
  We're exploring foil-mounted sensors (e.g. sonar) for whale (and manatee, turtle, etc) detection. So far in our 1/4 scale experiments, the foils have shed kelp pretty well. Kelp is something the America's Cup boats and even hydrofoil ferries (like in Japan and Hong Kong) have dealt with and solved.
wendyshu 3y ago
What exactly is coastal travel?
- zamnos 3y ago
  Travel near the coast where waves are limited in size. That means this thing won't be going from SF or LA to Hawaii any time soon.
  - darwinwhy 3y ago
    > That means this thing won't be going to Hawaii any time soon. They claim Mokulele as one of their customers so presumably they can travel between some of the islands.
    - wthalheimer 3y ago
      Oh ya we have open water covered. Coastal travel = coastal destinations. The trips themselves can be coastally proximal or over open water.

lastofthemojito 3y ago

I was initially skeptical, but seeing Mokulele Airlines (an airline serving Hawaii) flash by on the carousel made me consider that this might have at least some real-world uses. It's insane to me that the vast majority of inter-island travel in Hawaii (an archipelago where generally each island is visible from the next) is via jet aircraft. You have to spend hours (especially if you're checking bags) getting to the airport early, going through security, waiting at the gate, taxiing, etc ... for a 20 minute flight. There used to be a ferry between Oahu and Maui but it got killed due to real and perceived environmental impact: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry A light electric ferry service like this, directly between say, Ala Wai and Lahaina harbors, skipping airport/TSA nonsense, could be a very successful premium product. I just hope from there it could be scaled up so that it wouldn't remain just a niche offering for the rich.

qingcharles 3y ago
Crazy. Suspended due to "the potential to bring drugs and homeless people to Kauaʻi".
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Not at all. It seems they suspended it because of neverending lawsuits regarding environmental impact. Chopping up whales was apparently a big concern, so I suppose a ground effect service might alleviate some of those concerns(just kidding, I'm sure the environmental lawsuits were really just about control and not a genuine care for the environment)
  - pnpnp 3y ago
    That’s a great point, and also kind of insane to think about. The area around Maui has TONS of whales part of the year… many of them breaching. I wonder how high these things fly vs how high a humpback can jump out of the water. I think the rule is 1/2 of your wingspan to be in ground effect, but it has been a long time since I’ve studied the exact numbers.
- 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jordemort 3y ago

I'd love to see this in Lake Michigan doing a route from Milwaukee through Chicago and all the way up to Traverse City, with stops at all the cool little towns on the Michigan lakefront along the way. Probably not viable as a year-round thing around here but it could be great fun in the summer.

simonw 3y ago

If you haven't encountered wing-in-ground-effect vehicles before I have a treat in store for you... go and read about the Soviet Lun-class ekranoplan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lun-class_ekranoplan Then check out this Livejournal post where someone snuck into a dry dock and took photos of a rusty old one... including photos taken inside! https://igor113.livejournal.com/51213.html https://igor113.livejournal.com/51213.html

wthalheimer 3y ago
The greatest intro to an investor email interested in REGENT that I have ever received: "I would love to tell you that my first job was working under my Uncle Ros (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostislav_Alexeyev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostislav_Alexeyev) as we meticulously broke down and redesigned his life's work from the ground up, but unfortunately that's not true" - Coby Fleener
mkoubaa 3y ago
I've been fascinated by erkanoplans for a while! I bet we could even use them to travel over ice sheets in the Arctic and antarctic
jeffybefffy519 3y ago
rctestflight on youtube has a great series on ground effect vehicles: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXvxJNOIXBsMyYPykdtoWRj1m5DRn4CNx https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXvxJNOIXBsMyYPykdtoWRj1m...
mxuribe 3y ago
Reading this thread, and seeing the Regent was mildly cool...but per your links i dug deeper, and wow amazing! It made me appreciate what the Regent (and others) are doing around this mode of travel; so cool! Thanks for sharing!

temp123789246 3y ago

Does this require a pilots license? (Couldn’t find the answer after skimming the website)

Sugimot0 3y ago
It falls under the supervision of the coastguard apparently as a boat "that happens to fly". Not sure how they were able to swing that one, but it's pretty impressive.

happyjack 3y ago

I can tell by all the comments that not many people here are pilots or work with the FAA on type certification lol

piloto_ciego 3y ago
I was a professional pilot for years until I got sick and also did all sorts of work with getting FAA stuff approved, and I even have a float rating as well. The FAA certification is going to be a bastard here, for sure. I think it can be done, but I am pretty sure the feds still classify WIG aircraft as aircraft, which means it will be a major challenge to get all the new technologies certified. All it takes is money… Still, I would absolutely have loved stuff like this when k was working in SE Ak. This could dominate those markets. And you don’t really need for it to be instrument flying if it can never get that high…
- happyjack 3y ago
  Good to see a pilot here! I personally never see this aircraft ever getting certified. The SR22 was over $100 million total when getting their type certificate, and nothing was "ground breaking." It has a continental motor, Garmin avionics, NACA defined wing, etc. Sure, it's a composite and has a parachute, but I wouldn't call the design anything "revolutionary." It's going to take hundreds of millions and an act of god to get this through the FAA. I don't see it taking the twin otter's place anytime soon. edit: WIG out of FAA jurisdiction. Hope the Coast Guard is better to deal with!
  - piloto_ciego 3y ago
    Like I said, all it takes is money! Lol. Good though that it’s a “boat” for legal purposes that will make things much easier.

w10-1 3y ago

What's the legal authority permitting "seagliders" to carry passengers but escape aviation regulations? Or to use navigable waterways at high speed when other maritime users are severely restricted in speed? I doubt any historical exceptions would stand up to significant use. What's the real benefit? Actual ground effect is strong but very, very limited - to about the width of the wing. The (wallowing) demo flight is well above ground effect. Also, the demo's downswept wingtips provide a lot of the "ground effect" benefit. Most importantly, all of this could be done more cheaply and reliably with internal combustion engines. Why hasn't it already been done, if the demand is so strong? Sorry, but the technical and legal loopholes seem way too small to thread.

wthalheimer 3y ago
No loophole nor exceptions - we're following guidance from the International Maritime Organization on the maritime regulation of Type A WIGs (https://wwwcdn.imo.org/localresources/en/OurWork/Safety/Documents/MSC.1-CIRC.1592.pdf https://wwwcdn.imo.org/localresources/en/OurWork/Safety/Docu...), which have been upheld by flag states all around the world. The benefit of ground effects are: - 10-20% range extension (agreed, between 50% and 100% wingspan, which is where seagliders fly, the aerodynamic benefit of ground effect is reduced compared to near surface flight) - Drastic reduction in reserve fuel. This is a key limitation of electric aircraft because they need to sustain powered flight to another airport in the event of an emergency. We can always land on the water, therefore, we can count all of our batteries towards "mission useable" These two effects combine to give seagliders double the range of any electric aircraft - 180 miles with existing battery technology. We use hydrofoils to solve for the wave tolerance and maneuverability problems that plagued past WIGs and made them commercially unviable. To take-off directly from hydrofoils before they cavitate, we had to slow take-off speed to ~50 mph, which drove us to a "blown wing" design that distributes propulsion over the wing, "blowing" the wing with high speed air and therefore creating high lift even at low speeds. Very difficult to distribute propulsion with IC engines or mechanical linkages. Electric propulsion technology unlocks the blown wing, which unlocks the use of hydrofoils, which unlocks wave tolerance and therefore operations of WIGs, which unlocks longer range of electric flight. It all works together. And electrification is generally good: both for the planet and for ticket prices

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

Don’t ground effect planes have issues with big waves? I’m trying to figure out what coastal routes would look for this, open ocean is pretty rough in general.

jakemcgraw 3y ago

Depending on the number of trips per day, this has the potential to greatly reduce summertime traffic from tristate region to Cape Cod / Nantucket / Martha's Vineyard / LI North Shore / Montauk.

lchengify 3y ago

Have you looked at the Seattle area / PNW as a use case at all? I imagine the geography would be perfect for a solution like this. Seattle has a pretty extensive ferry system that they are in the process of electrifying [1]. It's great for what ferries are, but I would love more options between islands. Some of the less popular options are limited seasonally, I imagine this is a matter of economics. Also I can tell you that the ferries to / from Victoria Island fill up fast and require reserving slots in advance if you have a car. It's also a 3-ish hour ride that can be very unpleasant if you hit bad weather. I've often driven the long way around rather than do that trip. [1] https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/major-projects/ferry-system-electrification https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/major-projects/fe...

waiseristy 3y ago
Other than Lake Washington, the sound is stereotypically windy. Ground effect vehicles don’t work real well in windy / choppy conditions Though it seems like they have some special sauce which makes their aircraft behave better in these conditions

noiese 3y ago

Can this be used for traveling between SF and Palo Alto over the bay?

nroach 3y ago

How do you avoid bird strikes? At least near me, seabirds +180mph ground effect seems problematic

fdhfdjkfhdkj 3y ago

[dead]

gntech 3y ago

Somewhat similar idea to Candela P12, electrical hydrofoil ferry https://candela.com/p-12-shuttle/ https://candela.com/p-12-shuttle/

cwkoss 3y ago

How safe are these? I feel like a big wave could destabilize, then hitting the water at 180mph would be bad news.

faangiq 3y ago

Rare to see an actually cool startup these days - congrats!

golemiprague 3y ago

[dead]

micheljansen 3y ago

I'm hoping this takes off (unintended pun, but I'll leave it in). Nibble away at use cases for hydrocarbon-powered jet flights with alternatives like these until there's nothing left and/or we have a sustainable alternative for what remains.

euroderf 3y ago

Finland would like to hear from you. IMO the use case is not so different from Hawai'i.

yafbum 3y ago

It says it will go up to 180 mph... am wondering how the ride feels at that speed. Open water areas can be a pretty turbulent place in terms of wind, and I imagine that flying so fast and so low would feel a bit scary when the wind swings you around

eranation 3y ago

TIL about Ground Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(aerodynamics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_(aerodynamics)

tgtweak 3y ago

Could you not have a solar drone barge for a fast charge mid-trip, extending the operating range by double? Seems like a simple way to bridge the gap until higher battery density is available. For a 360 mile trip, adding 45 minutes for a fast charge (in certain this could be reduced to <25 minutes with modern battery architecture) would still net you out much faster than an train or short haul flight inclusive of airport time on both ends. This brings LA->SF journey well within reach.

sagarm 3y ago

Could these provide connectivity across SF Bay using mostly existing infrastructure? Enabling a 15 minute SF-San Jose connection would be pretty impressive.