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EPFL cancels Stallman's lecture citing “the situation regarding” his persona
- Flatcircle 3y ago[flagged]
- kabdib 3y agoAs someone who was verbally abused and publicly insulted by RMS, I'm okay with this.
- Minor49er 3y agoWhat happened?
- Flatcircle 3y agoThe man that did the heavy lifting to create the open source operating system would predictably have personality quirks (or even worse), we should just be doing what our ancestors did, make fun of him and complain behind his back (half-joking) but to cancel his appearances in which he'd discuss his professional career and thoughts on computer science, is throwing the baby out with the bath water. this man is not a normal man. He's a brilliant programmer. We shouldn't expect everyone to be normal. He is the definition of fringe and weird.
- kabdib 3y agoIt is an interesting question, how much you separate the personality from the accomplishments. I've been using Emacs since the late 1970s (actually, an Emacs clone, since 1990). It's a great editor, and he wrote a lot of it. But I won't support or condone his behavior, nor am I interested in anything he has to say.
- born2discover 3y ago[flagged]
- splitrocket 3y agoIt's only Cancel Culture if it comes from the Cancél region of France. Otherwise it's just sparkling consequences.
- eps 3y agoWas really looking forward it :-/ The wording of the cancellation is just ... wierd. Just as if they have to say something, but don't really want to say anything at the same time. Such a wishy-washy bs.
- hammyhavoc 3y agoIf they say something, it's defamation and reflects negatively on them, and anybody else and any projects associated with them. It's also potentially libellous.
- inglor_cz 3y agoIt really feels like a new Victorian age is upon us. Not only are you allowed to show an ankle under your skirt, even talking about female legs is frowned upon. The similarities go deeper than that. A mostly-uncontested empire (then, British, now, American) produced a leisure class that does not really have anything better to do than play zero-sum Moral Olympic Games. Which also means that the only way out is in increased competition from non-Western nations. No one can afford too much verbal fluff in a Cold War 2.0.
- jasonwatkinspdx 3y agoWe're talking about sexual exploitation of minors and you're trying to cast this as victorian prudism? Seriously?
- inglor_cz 3y agoI wouldn't have a problem with disinviting anyone who actually did exploit minors, such as Polansky. What bothers me is the übersensitivity over a leaked e-mail from a private group. Weird people like Stallman can be expected to express weird opinions in their e-mails. Repression of weirdness can result in worse societal results than its expression.
- grapesurgeon 3y agocould someone fill me in on what situation they are referring to?
- yokoprime 3y agoBizarre turn of events. Who cares about his persona, people can decide for themselves if they want to hear him speak.
- post-it 3y agoAnyone have a background summary? Last I heard he kept a mattress in his office and asked people to lay on it, and he had a stupid neutral pronoun idea he was very insistent on using. Has something stranger come up?
- richardwhiuk 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman#Controversies probably covers it I'm guessing.
- snvzz 3y ago[flagged]
- sokoloff 3y agoThere are many factually accurate statements that are, nevertheless, inappropriate to wildly inappropriate under the circumstances. I have personally interacted with rms decades ago and have a generally positive impression of his entire body of contributions to computing. Nevertheless, reading the controversies section on the wikipedia page induces a combination of cringing and face-palming. Someone researching the science of attraction in humans could very well be justified in saying "it is normal for adults to be physically attracted to adolescents". Someone commenting in apparent defense of a convicted sex offender should not make that exact same claim, whether factually correct or not.
- VagueMag 3y agoThis is a classic motte and bailey: "it's normal for adults to be attracted to adolescents" used to defend "it was reasonable for a fat CS prof in his 70s to believe a young minor on Epstein's island wanted to have sex with him absent any coercion going on (or for Stallman to advance this idea)."
- 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jdkee 3y agoLiterally canceled. Perhaps having an eternal memory of everything bad human beings ever do in their entire lives to be summoned up to destroy people is not such a good idea.
- splitrocket 3y agoIt's only Cancel Culture if it comes from the Cancél region of France. Otherwise it's just sparkling consequences.
- grapesurgeon 3y agoif this is referring to his past controversies, i fail to see how this is 'cancel culture'. if he says controversial shit that other organizations dont want to be associated with, its up to him to deal with the consequences of that. he has the right to express his views just like anyone else has the right to not want to be associated with him and those views.
- proaralyst 3y agoI think the intent of folks in this situation is not to look for targets for career destruction, but help prevent new people from being exposed to harm. In that context, a more accessible record of public figures' harmful acts seems like a net positive
- alex_lav 3y agoIs experiencing consequences for one's behavior synonymous with "canceled" now?
- e40 3y agoWe live in a new age, where we can know a lot more about the personal lives of famous people. Decades ago, the problematic personalities of famous people were hidden by the gate keepers. JKF benefited from this. It would be nice if there was a more uniform way to handle situations like this. RMS isn't alone, in being accused of unsavory things. Should we shun Bill Gates because of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? It's a thorny issue, because it's so hard to know much about the details of these problematic relationships.
- kweingar 3y ago> Should we shun Bill Gates because of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein? In my opinion, yes, absolutely.
- VagueMag 3y agoNot just shun, but regard with the utmost suspicion!
- daneel_w 3y agoHave you or anyone else been able to confirm the relationship was what you imply it was, or are you advocating guilt by association?
- kweingar 3y agoI'm not sure what you think I'm implying about their relationship. It is well-known that Gates continued to associate with Epstein after the latter was convicted of procuring a child for prostitution. There doesn't really need to be anything else to the story in my opinion. (Editing to be clearer: I don't think he is guilty of Epstein's crimes by association. I think he is guilty of associating with Epstein while being aware of some of his horrible crimes. I'm not saying he needs to be locked up over this, just that I don't trust him, and I question the judgment of people who do.)
- arp242 3y ago
- seydor 3y agoWe ll never know what "the situation" is and whatever "statements that do not correspond to any of our values" are. Good job smearing mud without saying anything i guess. Did stallman say something since he was invited that was particularly noticeable? if not then these organizers don't know what they 're doing and this reflects bad on them
- mardifoufs 3y agoI mean, his statements regarding pedophilia are enough. It's not exactly a hidden secret. Saying stuff like >I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing. Is very controversial, even if he backpedalled (only after it resurfaced and created a lot of controversy). I totally get why it wouldn't fit the values of a university
- lostmsu 3y ago[flagged]
- kayodelycaon 3y agoThere’s a difference between a controversial opinion and one of the strongest taboos in American culture.
- mardifoufs 3y agoPedophilia isn't exactly an American only issue. I'm not American but if thinking that pedophilia harms children is an American "taboo"... Then consider me thoroughly americanized lol.
- kayodelycaon 3y agoIt's far from exclusive, but I don't know enough about other cultures to definitively say universally strong in all existing ones. (It hasn't been historically.)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- marcodiego 3y agohttps://stallmansupport.org/richard-stallman-commitment-to-social-justice.html https://stallmansupport.org/richard-stallman-commitment-to-s...
- camdenlock 3y agoThis looked pretty good until it devolved into an appeal to the masters of the social justice cult. “L-Look! RMS is a true b-believer! Don’t punish him, please…” Beyond pathetic.
- atomicnumber3 3y agoMy read of the French is TLDR: [starts out by mentioning some people are complaining about RMS being schedule to talk], then: "We have considered the decisions of certain organizations that serve as examples for us and have made certain choices in the past" ("avons considéré les décisions de certaines organisations qui nous servent d’exemple et qui ont fait certains choix avant nous"). then they go on to say they've decided to cancel the talk. So - sounds like they're getting blowback and don't want to deal with all the politics / bad press around it? But also don't way to say they're just ducking out, and so have phrased it really weirdly.
- fvdessen 3y agoI also think it is interesting to note (for non natives) that they use the interpunct character in their writing, which is used by some french speakers to 'de-gender' french, similar to the usage of the singular 'they' in english. (développeur / développeuse -> développeur·euse·s). This practice is coming from the 'intersectional' movement, which is pretty similar to the woke movement in the US. This practice is quite controversial and is currently banned from official use in France and Switzerland. (The interpunct character is not on the keyboard, so it is quite cumbersome to use)
- npteljes 3y agoThat's a very interesting piece of information, thanks for sharing that!
- tivert 3y agoDid Stallman do anything new that offended certain political persuasions, or is this cancellation only due to previous controversies/peculiarities? Edit: the level of downvotes/flag-kills of comments just asking "why" and "what happened" is pretty depressing.
- VagueMag 3y agoStallman made some remarks defending Marvin Minsky (very poorly) from victims' allegations that he abused young girls on Epstein's island. Meanwhile, Reid Hoffman is now known to have visited the island and has not seen any firestorm of cancellations, as far as I'm aware.
- tivert 3y ago> Stallman made some remarks defending Marvin Minsky from victims' allegations that he abused young girls on Epstein's Island. Recently, or years ago? Because I'm pretty sure those remarks happened years ago.
- hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago> Stallman made some remarks defending Marvin Minsky (very poorly) from victims' allegations that he abused young girls on Epstein's island. He basically said that the victims were harmed, that they were forced to have sex, but that probably Epstein also forced them to make sure it's not known, otherwise who would agree to such a relationship, that would be basically rape? Taking into account how easy is to accuse people and that Minsky had died 3 years earlier, Stallman just said what he thought of the situation and witch-hunting. Not to mention that the victim just said that Epstein asked her to have sex with Minsky but there is no mention that it actually happened - at least his wife denies this happened. But this was misrepresented in the media and even in headlines of major papers so I don't think the harm can be ever repaired.
- verbify 3y agoStallman's comments can be verified. However we have no idea what Reid Hoffman saw or did on the island - he had plausible deniability. Therefore Stallman can face social consequences for his actions (without exposing EPFL to a defamation lawsuit), that is much harder with Reid Hoffman.
- explaininjs 3y agoTo those asking, last I heard from Stallman were his comments in the MIT CSAIL mailing list after the Epstein fallout basically of the theme: “some of them surely liked it”. As far as I’m aware he was ousted from MIT soon after, though the folks who actually signed the checks to/from Epstein faced no such consequences. This is America. https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/17/20870050/richard-stallman-resigns-mit-free-software-foundation-epstein https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/17/20870050/richard-stallman...
- snvzz 3y agoThe arguments in the character assassination campaign were found baseless[0][1][2]. But the cancelation crowd's witch hunt continues even today. [0] https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-against-richard-stallman.html https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-agai... [1] https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/ https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stal... [2] https://itsfoss.com/richard-stallman-controversy/ https://itsfoss.com/richard-stallman-controversy/
- kweingar 3y agoI know the things he said, the context he said them in, and the reasons he might have said them, and I still find it appalling. There were some headlines that took some of the quotes out of context, but that doesn't mean that what he said was ok.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tristan957 3y agoCan you put forward a quote that you were not ok with?
- jasonfarnon 3y agoI imagine, much like in the legal system, there is a reduced penalty for an expression of contrition.
- kernal 3y ago>We've seen your feedback on Richard Stallman's conference. We are very sorry to be so late in realizing the extent of the implications of organizing this event. I personally don't like the guy, but to take away his views for the people that were genuinely interested was cowardly.
- marcodiego 3y agoBill Gates had bonds with Epstein. His multi decade marriage fell after the fact became public. He didn't get 1% the flak that Stallman had for commenting about a word to describe Marvin Minsky.
- philwelch 3y agoThe amount of social grace you get for being a powerful billionaire is a lot more than you get for being a weird nerd.
- VagueMag 3y ago[flagged]
- tivert 3y agoThis is in reply to the GP, which was inappropriately flag-killed. The difference is probably that Stallman has no money or power, so he's an easy, safe target to attack.
- ethbr0 3y agoThe difference is that Gates pays his PR company a lot more than Stallman does his.
- actionfromafar 3y agoNot sure Stallman would even listen to a PR team if he had one.
- Gigachad 3y agoStallman also likely has autism and can't manage his public appearance nearly as well as Gates.
- fsckboy 3y agoGates likely has autism--he's even famous for rocking--but the rest of your statement is correct.
- thefz 3y agoTBH in Europe "canceling" a meeting is quite common in French and Italian, while the social media inclined "woke" version is almost never used. The title is in French and I think it reflects the most common usage of the verb here, to void a meeting.
- meghan_rain 3y agoWhat was the title originally?
- hdjjhhvvhga 3y agoFor anyone denying that the "cancel culture" (a big misnomer btw) actually exists - this is a perfect example. At least they could say what the reason is, then this could be addressed somehow - but as it is now it's just mud-smearing.
- dandellion 3y agoGiving reasons has fallen out of vogue, we're in the era of post-rationality.
- wmf 3y agoWithout a time machine there's no way for RMS to un-say things that he said. He probably wouldn't apologize either.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- thraway3837 3y ago[flagged]
- say_it_as_it_is 3y agoNo, it doesn't only take a few stupid utterances. The moral crusaders only have power with those who have none. Donald Trump still isn't in prison for doing and saying far, far worse over several decades.
- lockhouse 3y ago> Donald Trump still isn't in prison for doing and saying far, far worse over several decades. Donald Trump isn't in prison because he hasn't been convicted of any crimes. Well except for in the court of public opinion, but fortunately for us, they hold no power within the American justice system.
- alienicecream 3y agoIncorrect move. Having an opinion is not destructive to society. On the contrary, interrogating our beliefs clarifies them and allows the truth to come through and controversial opinions are a vehicle for that. Wanting to ban and silence people who say controversial things is a sign of weakness and fear, that should itself be examined.
- lockhouse 3y ago> Correct move. Holding an opinion that is unethical, immoral and destructive to society is unacceptable. And nobody wants to be associated with that. I wish this was not up for debate, but unfortunately, we seem to want to debate the same things repeatedly no matter how many times we know that certain things are problematic. Who gets to decide what opinions are correct and therefore allowed? Sounds very thought-police to me. There are many viewpoints that are commonly held by practitioners of the "woke" religion that I find to be unethical, immoral, and destructive, but I would never want to silence them. A debate enriches us all. If an idea holds no merit or substance it will fall apart in a fair debate, particularly if it can be supported by evidence. I am deeply suspicious of those who would silence debate and suspect their opinions lack substance. > For what it's worth for the HN crowd: A lot of us are in various points of our careers. Some starting, some in the middle, some at the end. You can spend decades establishing yourself. But it only takes 1 second to destroy it all. Think before you speak, think before you act. Is this right though? Should a decades long career be destroyed completely by 1 second of indiscretion? I personally find this viewpoint unethical, immoral, and destructive to society.
- olliej 3y agoIgnoring the questions of whether Stallman's persona is good, bad, or irrelevant this kind of thing shouldn't still be happening. Stallman's personality is not new, and has not changed since the 80s, and nothing newly controversial has come out in like a decade at this point. It's inexcusable at this point to keep inviting him to give talks and then cancelling them. Either you're ok with hosting him regardless and any of his many prior statements - and I get he has made some super questionable ones - or you're not. Either is ok, but this BS where you pretend that some comment that you don't want to be associated with is new or different or you were unaware of has got to stop.
- jzb 3y agoBelieve it or not, a lot of people still don’t know much beyond RMS being the founder of gnu. I have certainly found that plenty of people are not aware of any controversies until they’re pointed out. Whether these organizers had any clue I don’t know. I do think if you’re inviting someone to give a talk, you probably should do some homework to make sure that you’re comfortable with their persona. And if not, don’t invite them. But it’s less common knowledge than you might think.
- olliej 3y ago> I do think if you’re inviting someone to give a talk, you probably should do some homework to make sure that you’re comfortable with their persona Exactly. > But it’s less common knowledge than you might think. I don't think it's necessarily "common knowledge" - and there are a bunch of comments in these surrounding threads I wasn't immediately familiar with - but if you're inviting someone to talk you should be doing some basic due diligence which should turn up all of these issues.
- mindslight 3y agoI'd guess that he was earnestly invited by people who respected his contributions to software despite his social obtuseness. Then when the event was publicized, various "groups" got wind of it, threatened to kick up a public relations shitstorm for the institution, and the people who invited him found themselves overruled by "management".
- jalapenos 3y agoCouldn't there have been some middle ground? Like constrain him to the carpark or something? Then they could claim to be degrading him, due to his twisted views, while still letting people hear his wisdom on open source etc if they want to.
- henriquez 3y agoWhen I worked at a nonprofit RMS was a lone voice advocating (respectfully) via email that our code be free. I don’t have a dog in this Epstein fight but when I look at the dude’s body of work and see that none of the allegations are basically new shit that has come to light, it makes me doubt the motives of the people “canceling” him.
- darkteflon 3y agoYeah I’m just gonna go ahead and suggest that if you’re a parent, you might want to skip reading the comments here.
- senectus1 3y agoMuch Like Stallman keeps finding out, not knowing enough about something is going to get you into trouble. If you're a parent, read these comments and understand better.
- jwilk 3y agoWhat do you mean?
- unsupp0rted 3y ago[flagged]
- kyboren 3y agoAccording to EPFL, hosting that enemy of liberty ex-NSA Technical Director Brian Snow in June 2014 was totally fine, but hosting RMS is just a bridge too far. "Values".
- pyuser583 3y agoWhat I gather is he has some very unpleasant opinions, but is very open to discussion and correction. I don’t know or care a whole lot. He isn’t exactly active on issues outside open source. All I need to hear from him is “I may very well be wrong about this, but I just don’t care enough to argue” and he’s off my mental sh*t list.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- hammyhavoc 3y ago> He isn’t exactly active on issues outside open source. Have you not visited his personal website?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pyuser583 3y agoYeah, it’s full of drivel about random subjects. Basically, a private twitter feed (but using free software!)
- myshpa 3y ago"The original Remove Richard Stallman post contained leaked communications from a private mailing list. In it, the author quotes an email from Stallman where he explains that Marvin Minsky likely wouldn’t have known that the woman on Jeffrey Epstein’s island was coerced: …the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates. A paragraph later, the author summarizes Stallman’s view as: …he says that an enslaved child could, somehow, be “entirely willing”. This is the opposite of what Stallman said, but this lie was repeated by the press. An article in the Daily Beast said: Stallman wrote that “the most plausible scenario” for Giuffre’s accusations was that she was, in actuality, “entirely willing.” An article in Vice spread the same lie: Early in the thread, Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is that Epstein’s underage victims were “entirely willing” while being trafficked. There are two possibilities here. Either the author of the Medium post was not capable of correctly parsing the sentence, or she didn’t care about truth and was leveling as many accusations as possible in the hope that one would stick. In other words: she is either foolish or malicious. The same goes for the writers of the Vice and Daily Beast articles. To describe what they did as journalism would be an insult to journalists." "By satisfying the mob today, we are sacrificing our future. That’s the real risk." https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stallman/ https://geoff.greer.fm/2019/09/30/in-defense-of-richard-stal...
- jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago[flagged]
- Manuel_D 3y agoThen condemn him for the things he actually said or did (and I agree, there are valid reasons to distance oneself from him), not on account of misinformation.
- bawolff 3y agoWhile i agree in principle, in practise it is very human nature that once someone does enouh questionable things people will stop rushing to that person's defense, and it starts to matter much less if the current thing is true. It is sort of reverse boy who cried wolf.
- pimlottc 3y agoThe submission title appears to be editorialized; the word “persona” doesn’t appear in the original article, and it’s an odd choice, as it implies that Stallman’s statements and actions are a deliberate facade that’s separate from his true identity. “Personality” is probably what the submitter intended, though again, it’s an editorialization, as the original article is more understated about the exact reasons.
- hammyhavoc 3y agoI respect Stallman's contributions to computers, I respect a lot of his ideas, I respect his not uncommonly quite eloquent writing, I've enjoyed his talks. The world is objectively a better place having had his involvement. However, the world has changed many times since Stallmanism entered the zeitgeist. It may simply be time to retire and let the younger generations carry the torch going forward. Some people in the comments saying he doesn't follow mainstream society as if that somehow makes what he had to say defensible, but that just highlights that the world has changed and he hadn't. He may well have changed his opinion, but that's just symptomatic of a larger issue. Personally, I only want to hear about software and tangential topics of ethics like privacy from Stallman. It's unfortunate that it played out this way, but perhaps it's simply over and it's time for some fresh perspective and to get back to the major area of concern with FOSS. As-is, FOSS is developing a public image problem as being something old farts who hold questionable views are into. To make statements like that whilst championing privacy is not a good look. At what point do we admit that his continued involvement is damaging the activism and credibility of others and the FOSS movement as a whole? He's had his time, and it's been a lot longer than most folks managed. The movement should focus on substance and not egos. I would go as far as to argue that there's not really any going back now. This will seemingly always be resurfaced, and it will always cause a PR disaster for not just Stallman, but anybody and any project associated with him. I wish him the best of health, happiness and peace if he does decide it's time to retire from the public eye rather than be cancelled and have this as what he's remembered for, which would be a huge shame.
- flipperhero 3y ago> Personally, I only want to hear about software and tangential topics of ethics like privacy from Stallman. Me too. That's why I disregard the things he says on other topics.
- villgax 3y agoWe can move over Stallman, kudos for all the work but being a horrid person is no excuse for engaging in public with him again
- RobLach 3y agoTalk about a topic no one should be lectured about lol
- peanutcrisis 3y agoHannah Wolfman-Jones and Nadine Strossen's (ex-ACLU president) take on what got Stallman cancelled years ago: https://stallmansupport.org/nadine-strossen-hannah-wolfman-rebut-accusations-against-stallman.html https://stallmansupport.org/nadine-strossen-hannah-wolfman-r...
- yieldcrv 3y agoDislike. Structure your organizations to be impervious to complaints so you can ignore them and focus on the guest’s area of competency.
- dissahc 3y ago“I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily [sic] pedophilia harms children.” — Richard Stallman
- tmtvl 3y agoHe has rescinded that position: https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong) https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September... Not that you would likely have heard about that since (like, say, Michael Jackson) pro-Stallman reporting is unwanted.
- dissahc 3y agonot convinced that he didn't backpeddle just to escape further criticism. it's alarming that he held that opinion in the first place. it makes you wonder what opinions he holds in private.
- loeg 3y agoIt's not the kind of public statement you can just disavow and all is well! It's extremely damning that he ever held it and damning of his judgement that he thought expressing it was a good idea. I'm glad he has backpedaled but it doesn't rehabilitate him all the way back to zero.
- unsupp0rted 3y agoI don't care about Stallman's views or interests outside of Open Source. I'll bet I disagree with him on 95% of things in general, whether or not those things are immoral or illegal in my view. Doesn't matter to me. If he commits a crime, arrest him. Until then, I'll pay attention to him re: open source and ignore the rest. Want to cancel his appearances? Fine, up to you.
- ilceltico 3y agoEPFL PhD student here, I'd like to point out that this statement is NOT from EPFL. The lecture was organised by a student association called CLIC, and the linked post was made by the association. As such, this is not a formal statement from EPFL by any means. The title of this thread is highly misleading and should be changed immediately.
- unconed 3y agoEveryone always talks about stallman, nobody talks about the fact that the woman who wrote that medium post has all the signs of being an equally difficult to bear sperg (obsessive thoughts, noise sensitivity, punctuality/time focused, disgust at the idea of being touched, etc) It is really underappreciated how many female autists go unnoticed, even by themselves. They just freak out about all the other nerds' autism in a seemingly prosocial way. This explains an unreasonably large chunk of internet culture war. https://acko.net/blog/on-sperging-out/ https://acko.net/blog/on-sperging-out/
- user6723 3y ago[flagged]
- moi2388 3y ago[flagged]
- mdtrooper 3y agoIn Spanish, there is an excellent article on this: https://www.meneame.net/my-story/MDman/ahora-ha-muerto-stallman-quememos-free-software-foundation https://www.meneame.net/my-story/MDman/ahora-ha-muerto-stall...