11 ms·

It took me a long time, and virtually no help from outside, to discover that vitamin D effectively cures my winter depression. I was never really feeling good

• kerkeslager 3y ago
  I had a fairly similar experience with winter depression being cured by 10,000IU Vitamin D3 daily. I wouldn't say it's the single solution, which might be because my depression wasn't limited by season. I'm speaking in the past tense because my depression is largely managed by diet and exercise (rock climbing). The diet aspect is basically covered by the AFS in Table 2 here[1], with some additional natural probiotics (frequent yogurt and occasional kombucha). Like you, I basically figured this out with some luck in stumbling across information, some self-experimentation, and little help from medical professionals. What little help I did receive was in NY. In TN where I currently reside, I likely would not have received even that help, because medical care is unaffordable for most people. Additionally, there are an inordinate number of horror stories here about prescribers getting people onto a huge number of medications--this seems to particularly happen to young women who aren't comfortable advocating for themselves. I suspect this is due to pharmaceutical kickbacks, but haven't found any data to back that hypothesis up. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6147775/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6147775/
  • huehehue 3y ago
    Isn't 10,000IU way above the recommended limit? I went through a bottle this past winter (at the recommended dosage) and didn't notice a change in either direction, but was a bit confused during the research phase since everyone seems to use a wildly different dosage. https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-Consumer/ https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-Consumer/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/vitamin-d/ edit: I also found https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35878761 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35878761 which suggests higher levels are safe, as long as you're not eating D3 pills like kettle chips. So I guess that answers it, though my points stands about there being such a wide range of info
    • nradov 3y ago
      There is no real "recommended" dosage for vitamin D supplements. There is a recommended blood level of 50 nmol/L (20 ng/mL) - 125 nmol/L (50 ng/mL). Supplements should be titrated to reach that level, and the necessary dosage can vary tremendously based on ultraviolet light exposure, genetics, diet, and other factors. https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-Consumer/ https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-Consumer/
• BeetleB 3y ago
  > Why I type this here? I found it interesting that I had to discover this cure on my own. The medical system wuldn't have figured that out on their own, let alone accept that it was the single solution. It's because studies showing correlation between Vitamin D level and winter depression/SAD are mixed. I'm not saying it's a placebo. If it works for some people - great! But you can't expect doctors to recommend it when the data is quite unclear.
  • lynx23 3y ago
    I am a high risk cancer patient who is blind, i.e. doesn't necessarily get a lot of sun exposure due to disability + occupation. Given the discussion in this thread regarding correlation with lattitude and cancer risk, me being around 47 deg, and my personal history, I would have expected a caring medical system to suggest vitamin D to me roughly 30 years ago already. But alas, it turns out you have to do your own studies to improve life expectency with our western medical system. I could tell you a lot more, regarding being abused as a subject for a medical experiment at the age of 7! But people like you will always step up and defend the system. Observe and learn, I say.
    • nicenewtemp84 3y ago
      People are so indoctrinated they for some reason actually think most doctors want to help them. I assume they also trust their dealerships service advisor.
      • jewayne 3y ago
        It's so much worse than you think. Almost ALL doctors want to help. It's system (in this case, the reimbursement system) that makes it impossible to help, even though they want to. The doctors themselves have far less agency than you think.
        • robertlagrant 3y ago
          This is far too US-centric. Western medicine is a lot broader than that.
• alfalfasprout 3y ago
  I had a similar experience. It was night and day too.
• joseph_grobbles 3y ago
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• dcow 3y ago
  This (among other things) makes me wonder why we don't have better metrics and monitoring solutions for the human body. Your option is anecdotal self-diagnosis, or a full blood panel after seeing a doctor and convincing them that you need to be tested. It seems there's room for a product that monitors your health and sends you notifications when you need to address any metrics that are falling out of normal tolerances. Or at least something that helps you keep on top of preventative health visits. Holmes showed it can't really be invasive technology. I wonder if some sort of embedded blood monitoring device is feasible.
  • lynx23 3y ago
    I have never digged into the matter, but the closest existing thing which resembles your idea is that apparently, in Japan, there are toilets which do automatic testing and reporting. That seems like a neat idea because it does not require any kind of invasive procedure, but it is likely also a bit limited in what it can test for.
  • loeg 3y ago
    Blood panels are expensive and laborious to do with any frequency. Your body does a reasonably good job of monitoring and remediation on its own.
    • dmonitor 3y ago
      > Blood panels are expensive and laborious to do with any frequency I believe their implication is that there should be some engineering effort to reduce the expense and labor
      • loeg 3y ago
        You're faced with a fundamental problem of getting the blood out, though, which is always invasive and labor intensive. Or worse, you could embed a semi-permanent medical implant of some kind which would be obscenely expensive.
  • DocTomoe 3y ago
• moffkalast 3y ago
  Just wondering, have you had any tests done regarding arterial plaque since? Supposedly one also needs a vitamin K supplement along with D to avoid that.
  • comte7092 3y ago
    Unlike vitamin D, it’s not that hard to get plenty of vitamin K from diet alone. People will say that it’s not “the right kind” k1 instead of k2, but your body can make the conversion even though it’s fairly inefficient.
• kyleyeats 3y ago
  The biggest thing to know is the six-week lag time of effects either way. You aren't at peak sadness around the solstice, or around Christmas, you're sad six weeks after that-- around Valentine's Day.
  • ipaddr 3y ago
    I thought third Monday in Jan is the saddest day.. most likely to take your life
    • kyleyeats 3y ago
      Good point, see the sibling comment. If you're getting regular sun, your low point for the year will be the solstice. If you aren't, it'll be six weeks after that.
  • hn8305823 3y ago
    Are we talking about depression or the weather? For me peak depression occurs right around the solstice and starts improving immediately - yet slowly - right after. I'm definitely in a better place by mid Feb.
    • kyleyeats 3y ago
      IIRC, the effects of not getting enough and supplementing take six weeks. Sunshine actually manufactures it right away on your skin.
• avgDev 3y ago
  I had discovered something similar. I've had some nerve issues after a medication. First, my physicians were in complete denial that it was impossible. Then, I had to push them for tests. This includes Mayo clinic. It wasn't until I learned about neurological diseases and tests myself until I found the tests I needed. Then I had to search for a physician willing to listen. Ended up finding a neurologist at a University who straight up agreed that due to my history of tests and not coming up with anything he is open to hearing what I think and ordering what I want as long as it is within reason. We ordered autonomic test and QSART(sweat test). My autonomic tests were unremarkable like I suspected but we found issues on the sweat tests confirming my self-diagnosed small fiber neuropathy. I have then found other people having significant improvements from nerve supporting supplements, ALA, l-carnitine and high dose b1(which is relatively safe). I also stumbled upon Pirenzepine, I met a chemist online who reversed his neuropathy with Pirenzepine. It is not FDA approved but available in Japan with a good safety profile. I want to try this next. Later I discovered that there is company which is in phase 3 trials I believe with a cream with the main ingredient being Pirenzepine to treat neuropathy. In one of their studies they discovered that cream seemed to work systemically when it came to healing the nerves. At this point my physician who is a professor is excited to hear from me. I told him I am debating obtaining pirenzepine because supplement and gabapentin offer temporary relief thus far. The point is.....I would never receive proper diagnosis or suggestion for supplements from a physician unless I kept pushing and doing a lot of research on my own. I have seen many many doctors over the years.....Then as I expanded my knowledge I slowly began to notice that some doctors are clueless and incorrect(using outdated knowledge). It has forever changed my perspective on physicians.
  • salad-tycoon 3y ago
    Could you share more information on pirenzepine? Maybe from the chemist conversation and/or a dependable Japanese source? Never heard of it, just looking into it now. > It has forever changed my perspective on physicians. Well, when all the administrators of healthcare systems laud how they practice strict evidence based medicine, it leads one to wonder what the additional benefits are and to whom.
    • 3y ago
• panax 3y ago
  20,000 is way too high even though you are doing only once/week. 2000 or less daily is more appropriate. Doses that are too high can also cause blood calcium to spike and can pull it out of bones and deposit into soft tissue.
  • basisword 3y ago
    Curious on what basis you're making this recommendation. It's the kind of thing I would normally read and recall at a later stage as good info, but my doctor prescribed me 20k IU a week recently for a period of a couple of months.
    • KSS42 3y ago
      The only way to tell is to do a blood test. It took me taking 10k IU a day to get to the mid point recommended range. On the plus side, daily 10K IU is covered by my drug plan. I get my levels tested every 3 months.
    • panax 3y ago
      If your doctor prescribed you that then that is fine you should follow your doctor's advice. They might have specific reasons for the high dose. I was once prescribed a 50k dose by my doctor but had very noticeable negative effects and I know that was far too high for me. The recommended daily allowance is like 400 and that should cover the needs of most people. If you are deficient then you probably want quite a bit more than that until you get back to normal. The safe upper limit is 4000 /day so I would probably try to stick to doses below that. If you take 2000 per day that should be well within the safe range, and even if you take 2000 on as few as 2 days/week that probably covers your needs. Some individuals might have trouble absorbing it and might need higher doses though.
      • xk_id 3y ago
        > if you take 2000 on as few as 2 days/week that probably covers your needs Well the linked study actually found that taking the supplement once a week or month didn’t provide the benefits of dosing daily. Also the daily dose which was effective was up to 4000.
• kwhitefoot 3y ago
  The usual rule in Norway is to take vitamin D in months that end in R. That is, all the time except the summer. Nothing specifically to do with SAD, just that in the winter you don't get enough sunshine.
  • grugagag 3y ago
    Don’t know any Norvegian but are there more months that end in R than September through December in your language?
    • jo6gwb 3y ago
      Looks like Januar and Februar. https://norwegianacademy.com/learn-months-and-seasons-in-norwegian/ https://norwegianacademy.com/learn-months-and-seasons-in-nor...
• Arete314159 3y ago
  Me too, I went to doctors when I was in Seattle, they recommended complicated stuff...no Vitamin D though. I also had a B12 deficiency that contributed to depression, and it was a decade before that was figured out too. But doc's are super eager to prescribe SSRI's.
  • Arete314159 3y ago
    SSRI's make money, B12 shots and Vitamin D don't. Just a coincidence I'm sure.
    • hackermatic 3y ago
      Most SSRIs don't make money. I just ordered a 90-day supply of the generic version of my SSRI (actually an SNRI) for $45. And in looking it up, I realized that I overpaid because I went through my insurance, while GoodRx would get me the same pills from a local pharmacy for $20.
      • lynx23 3y ago
        My D for a whole winter costs me €20. Strongly prefer that over any sort of "fucks-with-your-head"-drug.
• jjav 3y ago
  > I found it interesting that I had to discover this cure on my own. This is sadly true for so many things in medicine. The doctor may or may not care, but either way they only have 10 minutes for you and are highly incentivized to push some very expensive pills to make you go away instead of being able to analyze the issue in any depth. I used to suffer greatly from gout, to the level of being bedridden for a month+ unable to move from the pain. All the doctors could offer were some pills that helped a little but didn't cure it and had somewhat nasty side effects. And I'd have to take them for life, almost guaranteeing liver problems later in life. With so much time unable to move, I spent it doing all the research I could and one day randomly happened upon research on childhood diabetes that noted that increased fructose intake leads to higher uric acid (which causes gout). So it wasn't even a case where the research didn't exist, it's just that it lived under the folder "childhood diabetes" instead of in the folder "non-diabetic adult with gout", so no doctor made the connection. I cut as much fructose off my diet as possible and within a month my blood uric acid was lower than ever and the gout completely cured, no need for any pills. That was over a decade ago, still doing great.
  • nradov 3y ago
    Peter Attia's interviews with Dr. Rick Johnson have some detailed scientific information about how fructose metabolism increases uric acid levels and causes gout. https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson/ https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson/
• liendolucas 3y ago
  > That chat was totally and wholy unhelpful, and the sympoms persisted. Out of sheer luck, Iinsisted on having my vitamin D tested. This happened me countless times. You go for help maybe having a hunch that something is not right. Describe symptoms and so on, only to be lightly dismissed. I honestly can't understand why isn't the rule for doctors when you visit them to at least ask: "When was your last blood test?" and then act accordingly either re-testing or analyzing previous tests. I'm not saying that all doctors proceed this way, but sometimes if you actually do not politely ask them to further analyse you, they won't. One of my siblings is celiac and it literally took many years to actually discover that if it wasn't for my mum endlessly trying to understand why at the time he was extremely tired spending way too many hours a day sleeping. All the technology that is available today that testing can discard options or at least follow clues on pursuing something else.
• casenmgreen 3y ago
  As I've become older, I've also found that in winter, my skin starts to be a bit unhappy (fingertips on the right hand getting rough and a bit broken up, usually, but it can also be a bit below the eyes), and my gut starts to be rather unhappy. When the sunshine returns, and I get some sun-on-skin time during the day, it all goes away. I'm now experimenting with vitamin D supplementation. Regarding your comments about doctors; yes. I may be completely wrong, but I think they have a revolving door of patients, and are restricted to actions which are permitted and/or supplied by their institution, or larger, national regulator. I've found that doing my own investigations, usually via Eurakalert, leads me to finding a considerable number of modern, up to date, wel designed studies, and as a result, and also knowing my own body properly, and over all of my life, and caring for it in a way which is impossible for a doctor with a large number of patients all of whom he gets to see for an appointment every month or whatever it is, I give myself infinitely better treatment than a doctor. My experience of institutionalized medicine has been high prices, rote treatments, lack of insight or imagination, and on one occasion, completely unnecessary full chest x-ray (which I would no longer stand for, but I was younger at the time). The only use I see for them is access to larger treatments, such as surgical treatments, which cannot otherwise be obtained.
• foxes 3y ago
  But if you get a blood test you can probably see if you are deficient. I asked a GP, just a general Dr here where I live, and they had no problem checking and were well aware of vitamin D levels and what it can cause. Maybe you should state what country you are from before making some broad statement about the medical system.
• pbnjeh 3y ago
  Several years ago, I started supplementing with vitamin D (D3, by the way; there is a difference) due to a history of cancer on one side of the family. I wasn't expecting to feel anything. Within two days, my mood stabilized significantly. It took me about a week of first noticing this and then thinking about what had changed in my life, to reach the hypothesis that it was the vitamin D. That was when I started noticing and paying attention to reporting and comments regarding this effect. It's significantly more effective than any pharmaceutical or other supplement I've taken with this purpose in mind. And, like the parent comment, I had to discover it and figure it out on my own. If I discontinue the vitamin D, the effect goes away. Except in the summer, if and only if I'm outside and getting plenty of sun exposure. By the way, I think that initial dose was 1000 or 2000 IU, daily. Not an "extreme" dose, compared to some I hear about, but significantly more than the U.S. FDA's recommended daily allowance (RDA). AS I understand it, the FDA's RDA was developed (decades ago) as basically the amount that prevents rickets disease. These days, I take it together with some K2. Supposedly, the K2 helps keep calcium fixed in your bones; higher doses of vitamin D work to mobilize it, both weakening bones and causing calcium deposits where you don't want them. CAUTION: This is what I've heard from some medical professionals, but I can't vouch for it. With vitamin D supplementation, as with most things, moderation and appropriate dosing are probably important. However, my OPINION based upon my experience is that the FDA's RDA is too low.
• magnusstaberg 3y ago
  What’s the reasoning of once every week and not every day? If you take every day it can be a weaker pill.