20 ms·

Why can it not be countries that don't care just using CFCs still?

Clent 4y ago
Read the article. It can be a manufacturing by-product. It's likely that there are unknown sources producing it as a product. If it was purposeful that would be trackable.
- Supermancho 4y ago
  Assuming the global monitoring can track the source (if it was intentional or not), is not based on information from the article. > This is what happened a few years ago, when researchers detected high levels of CFC-11 in the atmosphere2, and traced them to eastern China3. They deduced the source on the basis of readings from monitoring stations in South Korea and Japan, reporting it in May 2019, and afterwards, levels began to fall. Scientists got somewhat lucky with CFC-11: monitoring stations equipped to detect that particular chemical happened to be located relatively close to the source. Maybe we just need to be lucky again?
- jchw 4y ago
  The article implies something different: that it was lucky they were so easily able to track the first CFC-11 incidents: > Scientists got somewhat lucky with CFC-11: monitoring stations equipped to detect that particular chemical happened to be located relatively close to the source.
leereeves 4y ago
> Why can it not be countries that don't care just using CFCs still? And somehow manufacturing them without anyone knowing?
- hinkley 4y ago
  How well do we understand chemical evolution in landfills? Superfund sites? Maybe nobody is making it and it’s happening anyway.
b112 4y ago
I wonder if it is old appliances, air conditioners, etc being scrapped, but without processing the refrigerants? Some appliances could be 30 years old?
- kulahan 4y ago
  The article explains this.
  - b112 4y ago
    No, no it doesn't. Nary a peep about appliances.
    - kulahan 4y ago
      I know. It explains what it's coming from. It doesn't say anything about appliances because it's not coming from appliances.
anonym29 4y ago
China is mentioned as having been a likely culprit in the past. I don't understand why Westerners are so keen to make major sacrifices to quality of life in the name of fighting climate change when nothing we do will make a statistically significant impact in the long run with major population centers like China, India, and Nigeria continuing to grow more wealthy with rapidly increasing demand for reliable, 24/7 energy production, cheap air conditioning, etc. The PCA is a joke that gives these countries essentially unlimited ability to continually move their own goalposts for "peak carbon", no real difficult sacrifices required for them until after they've reached that moving target. China has been infamous for decades for not even having reliable currency data, what on earth makes us think they're even collecting (let alone honestly sharing) reliable data on CO2, let alone HFCs and CFCs, beyond willful naïvety, irrational optimism, and quasi-religious climate dogma demanding ideological conformance? The harsh reality nobody on the political left in the west has the courage to acknowledge that climate change is 100% out of the control of our WEIRD (wealthy, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic) countries, and no amount of self flagellation over "climate racism", nor vicious hostility towards "climate change deniers", nor radical proposals to destroy the entire energy grid is going to make even a proverbial "drop in the bucket" difference in climate change. Climate dogma is the TSA to climate change's terrorism - wasteful, ineffective theatrical performance art that degrades everyone's quality of life while doing effectively nothing to address the actual problem, intended strictly to appease the neuroticism of the shmucks dumb enough to believe it makes a difference. I get that this sounds pessimistic, cynical, and even a little misanthropic, but it's also what the actual data is telling us. This isn't a fight we can win with the way things are done in China not changing. Totalitarian demands for ideological conformance present an impenetrable barrier for "real" progression of humanity in virtually every aspect in every country where they are practiced, including the climate change cult itself in the US.
- dimitrios1 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - teg4n_ 4y ago
    how does that have anything to do with the alt-right??
chiefalchemist 4y ago
Or companies that stashed a stockpile then to avoid the disposal costs, and are not letting to drip out. Or both?

Read the article. It can be a manufacturing by-product. It's likely that there are unknown sources producing it as a product. If it was purposeful that would be trackable.

Supermancho 4y ago
Assuming the global monitoring can track the source (if it was intentional or not), is not based on information from the article. > This is what happened a few years ago, when researchers detected high levels of CFC-11 in the atmosphere2, and traced them to eastern China3. They deduced the source on the basis of readings from monitoring stations in South Korea and Japan, reporting it in May 2019, and afterwards, levels began to fall. Scientists got somewhat lucky with CFC-11: monitoring stations equipped to detect that particular chemical happened to be located relatively close to the source. Maybe we just need to be lucky again?
jchw 4y ago
The article implies something different: that it was lucky they were so easily able to track the first CFC-11 incidents: > Scientists got somewhat lucky with CFC-11: monitoring stations equipped to detect that particular chemical happened to be located relatively close to the source.

leereeves 4y ago

> Why can it not be countries that don't care just using CFCs still? And somehow manufacturing them without anyone knowing?

hinkley 4y ago
How well do we understand chemical evolution in landfills? Superfund sites? Maybe nobody is making it and it’s happening anyway.

b112 4y ago

I wonder if it is old appliances, air conditioners, etc being scrapped, but without processing the refrigerants? Some appliances could be 30 years old?

kulahan 4y ago
The article explains this.
- b112 4y ago
  No, no it doesn't. Nary a peep about appliances.
  - kulahan 4y ago
    I know. It explains what it's coming from. It doesn't say anything about appliances because it's not coming from appliances.

anonym29 4y ago

China is mentioned as having been a likely culprit in the past. I don't understand why Westerners are so keen to make major sacrifices to quality of life in the name of fighting climate change when nothing we do will make a statistically significant impact in the long run with major population centers like China, India, and Nigeria continuing to grow more wealthy with rapidly increasing demand for reliable, 24/7 energy production, cheap air conditioning, etc. The PCA is a joke that gives these countries essentially unlimited ability to continually move their own goalposts for "peak carbon", no real difficult sacrifices required for them until after they've reached that moving target. China has been infamous for decades for not even having reliable currency data, what on earth makes us think they're even collecting (let alone honestly sharing) reliable data on CO2, let alone HFCs and CFCs, beyond willful naïvety, irrational optimism, and quasi-religious climate dogma demanding ideological conformance? The harsh reality nobody on the political left in the west has the courage to acknowledge that climate change is 100% out of the control of our WEIRD (wealthy, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic) countries, and no amount of self flagellation over "climate racism", nor vicious hostility towards "climate change deniers", nor radical proposals to destroy the entire energy grid is going to make even a proverbial "drop in the bucket" difference in climate change. Climate dogma is the TSA to climate change's terrorism - wasteful, ineffective theatrical performance art that degrades everyone's quality of life while doing effectively nothing to address the actual problem, intended strictly to appease the neuroticism of the shmucks dumb enough to believe it makes a difference. I get that this sounds pessimistic, cynical, and even a little misanthropic, but it's also what the actual data is telling us. This isn't a fight we can win with the way things are done in China not changing. Totalitarian demands for ideological conformance present an impenetrable barrier for "real" progression of humanity in virtually every aspect in every country where they are practiced, including the climate change cult itself in the US.

dimitrios1 4y ago
[flagged]
- teg4n_ 4y ago
  how does that have anything to do with the alt-right??

chiefalchemist 4y ago

Or companies that stashed a stockpile then to avoid the disposal costs, and are not letting to drip out. Or both?