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British government mocked for advertising head of cyber role with £57K salary
- killingtime74 4y agoPay peanuts get monkeys
- unixgoddess 4y agoto be fair that's true for faangs too, compared to how much they "earn" through your work.
- moremetadata 4y agoState employees earn very little which is why they carry out their own extra curricular criminal activity to top up their wages. What they lack in official wages, they more than make up with by using criminal loopholes and sailing close to the wind, like any nation proud of its pirated seafaring heritage, its where the saying cross someone's palm with silver comes from, also known as Danegeld.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- selfmodruntime 4y agoThe German Government isn‘t far behind. Just yesterday we advertised an E-15 (government pay scale) role for head of software architecture in Munich, which translates to roughly 60k € / year. This is what a junior software developer can expect after either a Master‘s or a year or so of experience in his first job. The problem‘s don‘t stop there. I currently work a government job until I can start my PhD, so I know what it‘s like. Office Job workers joke about „attractive addons“ like free lunches on friday, a well stocked coffee machine, a nice looking office or a foosball table in the office. I say you don‘t know you‘re missing something until it‘s no longer there. The German Government tends to offer nothing like this. My office is a gray block of concrete. I‘ve asked for some pictures and some greenery in the form of plants, which was denied. My office chair sucks compared to what I‘m used to, my desk looks like it came straight out of offices in the DDR. There are no free drinks in the office, no fruits or interesting lunch talks. It‘s bleak.
- i_don_t_know 4y agoThere must have been something about the job that appealed to you. Why did you accept this job vs some other job in the industry?
- ipaddr 4y agoThe other side of the coin is they are super easy to get because of the low pay.
- selfmodruntime 4y agoYes. My university is next door, so I save on commutes.
- bakuninsbart 4y agoGovernment jobs in Germany are quite good depending on your perspective. Getting the Beamten status makes you basically unfireable, and the pensions are so generous that becoming Beamter with E-15 ist equivalent to a solid millionaire.
- wink 4y agoBut first you much reach the pension age, that's not a gamble I'm willing to take (don't remember any relatives who reached 90 years) and until then, good luck if you want to buy a house, as these jobs are usually not on the countryside :P
- selfmodruntime 4y agoBeamtenstatus is rare to come by these days.
- orwin 4y agoI worked for a French engineering school for 3 years, on government salary (we have a weird system). It was 37k/y for a junior position, so quite low (I doubled that in 2 job switch), but I had 57 vacation days. More than 11 weeks, not counting the 4/5 national holidays (depending on the year). I'm building a treasury right now, but once my house is paid, I'm going back to this kind of job.
- vidarh 4y agoI keep being approached for jobs in UK gov agencies, and sometimes when I tell them they can't afford me, they ask if I mind telling them by how much. Usually their range is off by a factor of 2 to 3. I get that some people want to work in government, but I can't imagine taking a pay cut like that for any employer.
- maxwell 4y agoWhat would you expect in a monarchy?
- dukeyukey 4y agoWhy would public sector pay correlate with being a monarchy?
- rcarr 4y agoBecause it suggests that the populace is subservient and would rather put up with the charade of pretending one family has a god given right to rule than face the fear of either rebelling against them or moving to a foreign country which is wholly self determined by the people. That kind of mentality is the same mentality that will cave and accept lower pay rather than take a risk and seek out opportunity elsewhere.
- dukeyukey 4y agoWhich is, of course, why more than half the countries by top 20 by GDP per capita are monarchies (after excluding microstates of course)
- rcarr 4y agoYeah and absolutely nothing to do with the fact said monarchies plundered the resources of other countries for centuries and are still dining off the spoils.
- Irishsteve 4y agoThe job title is perhaps inflated. It’s working in a tech department with 40 people in the north part of the uk (lower cost of living) within the treasury department. From a supervisory perspective they will manage 2 apprentices , not even interns. Doesn’t look like the individual has access to budget or autonomy to make significant purchases (I.e no good path for backhanders from vendors or consultancies) headline feels sensationalist
- lucozade 4y agoThe £57k is with London weighting. It's £50k-£54k outside London. But otherwise I agree, this is a team lead position for a small team. Grade 7 so isn't a senior civil service role. From the job description it looks like it's a liaison role between the Treasury and other security teams. Likely turning security policy to procedures and disseminating.
- givemeethekeys 4y agoUntil shit hits the fan and they blame the “head of security”.
- thomond 4y agoIf that's what "head of cyber" does it really demonstrates they don't take cybersecurity seriously.
- TecoAndJix 4y agoIf you can stomach the pay (frugal or independently wealthy) the position would be a great step up a career ladder when returning to the private sector.
- hardlianotion 4y agoThat is not at all clear to me. Why do you think so?
- Cymrukicks 4y agoGoverment connections are a big plus when it comes to the private sector especially at the C level. You tend to find alot of people moving from the FCA or PRA which pay poorly to senior private companies. When new info/regs are coming they can just pick up the phone and ask about them.
- reedf1 4y agoThis has caused a bit of a stir because the UK hasn't quite understood the relative weakness of wage growth for the last 10 years. The culturally understood milestones of "high pay" 30/50k have also not increased with inflation. I get paid well for the UK - but I could triple or even quadruple my salary in the US/Australia. Combined with relatively high taxes (my marginal tax rate is 60%) - it isn't a great value proposition for many professionals, and despite the luxuries (healthcare, gun control) - almost everyone I know is eyeing the exit.
- alias_neo 4y agoSo you're on between £100,000 and £125,140. There's a very small (and stupid) band in our income tax system where people are on 60% marginal.
- TheHappyOddish 4y agoThat's pretty high though. In Australia, the top tax bracket is $180k+ (£100k or so) at 45%, which I always thought was absurdly high. Earning 40c on the dollar (or 40p on the pound, I suppose) must surely set a ceiling.
- alias_neo 4y agoIt's a bit of a mess in our tax system that causes this. The highest official tax bracket is 45%[0], which comes into effect once you earn over £150,000. The "higher" rate bracket is from ~£50,000 to £150,000, HOWEVER: Once you reach £100,000, your tax-free personal allowance is reduced by £1 for every £2 you earn, so that bottom section of your earnings enter into the 20% bracket when they were 0% previously, so effectively you're marginally taxed 60% (40% + 20%) on your earnings between £100,000 and £125,140. Between £125,140 and £150,000 you're back at 40%! Anything over £150,000 is taxed at 45%. Also, if you're (un)fortunate enough to be a parent with young children and you benefit from tax-free child care[1] (to which pretty much everyone is entitled), the second you earn a penny over £100,000 (after pension deductions, but before tax etc) you lose the ~£2000 per child annual benefit. Effectively this means that if any one parent in a household gets a pay rise from £100,000 to £100,000.01 (ignoring the pensions contributions for a moment), they are actually ~£2000 per child worse off. These people are therefore better off earning £100,000 than £100,000 + (£2000*N) where N is the number of children at tax-free childcare age, until their children age out of the benefit. In case that's not enough; the moment you earned that extra 1p over £100,000, you're now obligated to start filing tax returns, even if you're a PAYE employee never having done so before [2]. [0] https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates [1] https://www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare https://www.gov.uk/tax-free-childcare [2] https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates/income-over-100000 https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates/income-over-100000
- walkhour 4y agoLooks like a position with a lot of influence and status. Most of the salary is payed in gravitas and not pounds. I'm sure many people will be happy to take the deal.
- KaiserPro 4y agoI see you've yet to work in the civil service.
- mycodebreaks 4y agoThis is a salary that's fairly achievable in developing world countries. The developing world has come far.
- tjpnz 4y agoRishi Sunak just blew close to 10x that in a fortnight on private jet travel. Fantastic to see them getting their priorities in order.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ogogmad 4y agoLink: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/31/sunak-private-jet-trips-cabinet-office-flight-costs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/31/sunak-priva...
- patcon 4y agoDisclosure: left-leaning progressive Meh, ppl comparing heads of state costs with the rest of us has always struck me as incredibly reductive and point-scoring mentality. Executive functions need to get a bigger budget than the normies (or in this case, the security "immune system"). I don't value private jets for much of anything, but maybe shuttling heads of state (as ppl in charge of our collective society, not just shareholder value) in a secure and efficient manner is one of those places? I'd venture to guess we'll eventually discover an almost information theoretic grounding for such things. Brains do consume 20% of the human energy budget, after all ;) Obviously being a bit handwavey here. Not in favour of corruption or getting wealthy. But the costs of the executive function don't seem served by such simple comparisons * shrug *
- stuaxo 4y agoParliamentary side (who make the rules), Vs civil service who have to work out how to actually do the work.
- hardlianotion 4y agoRightly so. Change the job title, or change the salary.
- MontyCarloHall 4y agoCompared to the US, median income (after adjusting for purchasing power) is low in Europe and abysmally low in the UK [0]. This is especially true for tech salaries [1]. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/11m6isp/median_household_income_in_uscanada_and_europe/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/11m6isp/median_hou... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23427327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23427327
- Tycho 4y agoWhat’s the true value of the civil service pension though? Rough calculation (probably wrong): 40 years of pensionable pay with an average of let’s say 65k. Divided by 80. Equals pension income of £32k yearly between retirement and death, inflation protected. To buy an equivalent annuity would cost about £1 million. So it’s like saving an extra £25k per year over 40 years. (Although, I suppose you have the option to grow that more through investment.) So this salary is probably competitive with an 80k private sector total comp package?
- SilverBirch 4y agoWe don't have to run the numbers, the civil service publishes what they account for contribuging to the defined benefit pension[1], they're paying in about 27% of your salary. So it's worth about 10-15k on top of the base salary for this job. [1]: https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/your-pension/managing-your-pension/contribution-rates/ https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/your-pension/ma...
- rpep 4y agoIt’s worth considerably more than that as an individual since you lose any investment risk, and contributing the same as employer + employee contribution to a pension is unlikely to get you benefits on retirement with the same annual payment.
- Tycho 4y agoThis seems too low as a cost estimate. Perhaps because they have buying power that a private individual couldn’t match, or a structural surplus due to workforce demographics, or maybe it’s just rosy accounting. Seems the current scheme lets you buy/stack, each year, a recurring annual pension worth 2.35% of your current salary (pays out every year after retirement). So with a salary of 57k, you would pay something like 4k this year to secure £1340 (inflation linked) every year of retirement. That’s insanely good value if you don’t have so many years left. I suppose if you have 20 years left, and you get an extra 10k private sector salary, and invest that for retirement, then it maybe breaks even with 7% compounding growth, but even then you have to contend with inflation and market risk. I think the fair value is more like an extra 20-30k salary.
- twawaaay 4y agoDon't mock. They know what they are doing. More likely they already have a candidate and the advert was made so that nobody with the right mind and experience will apply and only people that do apply can be quickly shown to be unfit.
- ojhughes 4y agoIt’s true they might already have a candidate in mind and have to advertise the role for fair and open competition. That candidate will still only be getting ~57k. (I’m ex civil service)
- twawaaay 4y agoI am pretty sure a lot of these positions are lucrative outside of the salary. It might be because some political force wants to have their representative in this position. Or because the person may count on future profits after they leave the position. And there is of course possibility of some nefarious deals that we of course don't know anything about but we know stuff like this happens more frequently that we get to know.
- tyingq 4y agoCurious what that translates to in terms of lifestyle after taxes come out. What amount would you reasonably have left for rent?
- magicloop 4y agoIt's about Fatima. The government was mocked for a "tone deaf" campaign to hire from a diverse workforce and re-skill in Cyber. So when a "senior" job was advertised in Cyber, the urge to mock brewed up as seen on social media. It is not new that government jobs bear modest salaries, nor that the inflated titles that are given to employees are not a fair reflection of the duties that they hold. https://www.dazeddigital.com/politics/article/50747/1/a-brief-explainer-on-the-government-dystopian-fatima-cyber-ad https://www.dazeddigital.com/politics/article/50747/1/a-brie... https://www.diyphotography.net/photographer-speaks-up-after-her-photo-was-used-in-disgraceful-uk-government-ad-i-was-devastated/ https://www.diyphotography.net/photographer-speaks-up-after-...
- guilhas 4y agoI was looking the other day in the UK gov site Data Analyst with several requirements and experience, £27K Must be some standard public pay scales
- richliss 4y agoIs there a place in the US that has tech jobs, has warm weather and has low gun crime? I too wish to jump off "HMS Sinking".
- freeone3000 4y agoCalifornia :)
- prakhar897 4y agoMaybe the govt doesn't want to externally fill this role, and instead give it to their buddy. Hence they are trying to make it as unappealing as possible.
- sadutcasper 4y ago[flagged]