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Block: Inflated user metrics and “frictionless” fraud facilitation
- propercoil 4y ago[flagged]
- sgerenser 4y agoHindenburg research outed actual, verifiable fraud by Nikola and Adani group. Haven’t even looked at these claims yet, but to say they make “ludicrous claims” in general is just not accurate.
- noloblo 4y agoIt is already down to 58 from yesterday close at 72 how much will the short sellers make if it opens at 58$ in half hour?
- noloblo 4y ago72$ puts expiring Friday are 2.54$ 60$ puts expiring this Friday March 24 are 25 cents at yesterday close So if they open at 6.54$ and 1.25$ respectively the short seller (hindenberg) potential gains from sq block short via short term puts are 6.54-2.54 = 4x100 = 400$ per contract 1.25-.25 = 1*100 =100$ per contract If they had bought 1000 contracts of each that is 400k and 100k respectively for the 72$ and 60$ sq put!!
- Gh0stRAT 4y agoI feel like $500k wouldn't come close to paying for the two years of research that went into this report.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- noloblo 4y agoSo for 72 puts they opened at 13.54 and hence it's 1100 $ gain per contract The 60 puts are 3.25$ hence gain is 300$ per contract Assuming hindenburg bought a 1000 of each 1100000 on the 72 puts and 300000 on the 60 puts as Sq block is now trading at 58$ much to jacks chagrin That's a cool 1.4 mn $ Is this legal if so why isn't everyone doing it?!
- hef19898 4y agoBecause it is extremely risky, even if you are right, and extremely capital intensive. That being said, there are loads of short sellers out there doing exactly that, all the time, with all kinds of companies.
- propercoil 4y agoWhen short sellers buy puts they usually buy 1-day expiring ones. The profit here can be 5x-10x the amounts stated here.
- krona 4y agoI'm pretty sure he'd get sued in to the ground if anything published turned out to be materially false.
- theGnuMe 4y agoHas anyone successfully sued Hindenburg? I feel it can go both ways, one it brings the issue back up (if you survive the short) and two Hindenburg has already won multiple lawsuits.
- polygamous_bat 4y agoBlock (and Jack Dorsey in particular) is enough of a silicon valley sweetheart that if they are inclined to sue I am sure there would be enough people lining up to bankroll the lawsuit. Given that intuition, I would assume Hindenburg is reasonably certain that they can legally defend whatever they are claiming. Of course, I could be wrong, and Hindenburg may have bitten off more than they can chew. But my intuition says the accusations are at least defensible.
- headsoup 4y agoWhat? Do you know who Hindenburg are or are you just a shill account (or Bill Ackman fanboy)? Short sellers are essentially litmus tests. If you're all legit, they'll get wrecked, if you're doing dumb things, you're about to get found out.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jatins 4y ago> If you're all legit, they'll get wrecked The first few times Hidenburg published a report, this would have been true. But now they can publish something and stock will crash just because of the fact they published something. Market is largely sentiment driven in the short term and retail is not going to go do in depth research. And this short term decline is enough for short seller to crash. Take this report for example. A lot of their claims are not very substantial. Like the lyrics of a hip hop song are not the evidence they think it is. I didn't see a lot of evidence of the fact that 70% accounts are fraudulent either.
- onphonenow 4y agoThat idea that people believed Nikola is crazy. I read the report. The cto was a concrete guy family member or something. The vehicle they used to show things working was rolling down a hill - I’m just amazed that so few look closely enough at this stuff. Didn’t read the adani report beyond auditor stuff which also seemed shaky
- noneeeed 4y agoThe podcast Bad Bets has a series on Nikola, it's incredible just how bad the fraud was, and how long it took to be uncovered just what a con artist Milton was.
- qgin 4y agoHindenberg has a very good track record of accurate reports
- fbn79 4y agoWhat about Welltower Inc?
- baryphonic 4y agoThe report is extremely long, but having gone through the bullet points, the case seems quite overstated. There are in fact millions of people who use Cash App, though it's probably less popular overall than Venmo. I know this because my wife and her friends will mention it and Venmo when talking about splitting bills. (Given the technical challenges Wells Fargo has had lately, I'm not sure who trusts Zelle.) A lot of the claims amount to criticisms of Block's address verification functionality. But that doesn't mean Block engaged in fraud, perhaps they just have crappy address verification tech. Short of sending a human investigator out to physically verify that a given person really is located at a given address, I'm not sure what foolproof methods people use to eliminate that kind of fraud. The "let's send you a postcard with a code" method I've seen from legacy banks seems quite easy to exploit as well, just a bit slower. The last question about merchant fees isn't fraud at all, but regulatory avoidance. Maybe the government will shut this down, or maybe they've found a loophole that Congress may want to close. It's unclear. The least persuasive part of the report was the implication that rap lyrics imply Cash App facilitates crime.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago>Given the technical challenges Wells Fargo has had lately, I'm not sure who trusts Zelle. I trust Zelle (i.e. the bank itself) more than I trust a third party to ACH money into and out of my account.
- phphphphp 4y agoIf verifying people is hard and so a company chooses to take the easy route of not bothering and therefore attract lots of customers who do illegal things, surely in any world that's at the very least knowingly facilitating illegal conduct? There are a lot of platforms that do far more than Block to verify people -- Block absolutely could do the same if they wanted to. This is what Block do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2uhWTFvug8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2uhWTFvug8
- baryphonic 4y agoI don't think the allegation is that Block doesn't check, it's that the check is vulnerable to fraud. If Block rolled out a better verification system next week, based on off-the-shelf components, would they no longer be a fraud?
- dist-epoch 4y agoIf you believe the claims are ludicrous buy some longer duration calls and you'll make a crazy amount of money too.
- heisenbit 4y agoTheir work is certainly disruptive but there is no way to tell the world that the emperor is naked that is not disruptive. We seem to suffer bouts in collective delusions and eventually one has to snap out of it.
- dougSF70 4y agoBlock stock price down 20% at market open...Hindenburg have generated a significant return already.
- stuartjohnson12 4y agoChesterton's Fence strikes again - every so often, someone has the bright idea of uninventing all the rules for just long enough that all of the reasons the rules were invented in the first place can regress back into existence.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y agoI sometimes think that the absence of experience is an issue. Many of these Jurassic-scale disasters are ones that make me wonder "Were there any adults in the room, when this decision was made?" I suspect the answer is frequently "No."
- hotpotamus 4y agoThey don't call it "the nanny state" for nothing.
- mrguyorama 4y agoWhy would these companies care if their nonsense makes other people suffer when they still profit from that suffering?
- throwayyy479087 4y agoDing ding ding. It sounds like everyone knew the grift, but didn’t care because they got paid. Meanwhile they’re profiting off some 13 year old getting raped in a Motel 6. Not that great!
- boeingUH60 4y agoThe crypto sector explained in a short sentence..
- draw_down 4y ago[dead]
- olalonde 4y ago
- agentgumshoe 4y agoThis is bad for Block. I hope. It's incredible that since 2008 it actually seemed immensely easier to skirt regulations and laws (under the banner of 'innovation'), and not just in finance. Just about all of silicon valley seems to have run the longest and broadest grift we've seen. This year's gonna get real interesting.
- noloblo 4y ago> Just about all of silicon valley seems to have run the longest and broadest grift we've seen. What do you mean by this
- Out_of_Characte 4y agoWouldnt know what the OP refers to but silicon valley has been skirting regulations and running as close to a ponzi scheme as humanly possible, the likes of uber with blitzscaling, esentially growing their userbase with venture capital only to increase the amount of venture capital they can get to 'eventually' make a profit. Or SVB wanting to not be regulated because they hold less than 250B only to fail with terrible consequences. Then theres the numerous crypto startups that promise return on stake funded by new depositors to pay the old depositors. Money was cheap but in an economic downturn any weakness will result in investors leaving, cash drying up. So whoever cannot show profits will quickly wither and cause chain reactions in similar weak companies. I'm sure you can find an amazing list on hindenburg and you'll see most of them are tech companies because thats where the biggest venture capital pie was between 2008 and now.
- nluken 4y agoThe “innovations” of many (but not all) post-2008 unicorns are more about creating a legal grey area to bypass regulation than they are actual technological advances. Uber and Airbnb are prime examples. If Uber was forced to used licensed cab drivers or Airbnb forced to use licensed hotels, you would see the breadth of what these companies actually bring to the table, which isn’t nearly as much as their valuations would indicate. That’s before we get into the adverse externalities these services can create (looking directly at Airbnb here)
- mesmertech 4y agoWhy did paypal stock have to drop because of this...
- likecarter 4y agoDid anyone read the report? The summary is quite short. Seems like a nothing-burger.
- hef19898 4y agoIt reads a lot like what Wells Fargo did, re opening accounts, only targeting the criminal demographic.
- likecarter 4y agoWells Fargo took advantage of black people and minorities, I wouldn't call them the criminal demographic. They were also the victims.
- Gh0stRAT 4y agohef19898 wasn't saying Wells Fargo targeted the criminal demographic, they're saying Block did.
- hef19898 4y agoWhat Wells Fargo did was despicable. What Block did, and I should have been a lot more concise, is similar in opening up multiple, and sometimes fake, accounts for show growth measured in number of accounts instead of actual deposits or clients. In that regard there are similarities. Wells Fargo targeted minorities, Block targeted criminals and fraudsters. This of course doesn't mean the people Wells targeted are criminals, as you said they were victims of Wells business practices.
- jevgeni 4y agoread the report then
- brightball 4y agoWow... > “Every Criminal Has A Square Cash App Account” – Former Employee > The Signs Are Hard To Miss: There Is Even A Gang Named After Cash App, With Members Arrested For Fentanyl Distribution > Our research shows that Block has embraced a traditionally very underbanked segment of the population: criminals. > Many of These Songs Describe The Role of Cash App in Facilitating Criminal Activity, Including Murder-For-Hire > Cash App Was Cited As “By Far” The Top App Used in Reported U.S. Sex Trafficking, According to A Leading Non-Profit Organization > Department of Justice Complaints Outline How Cash App Has Been Used To Pay For Sex Trafficking, Including Sex Trafficking Of Minors
- RunSet 4y ago> CEO Jack Dorsey has publicly touted how Cash App is mentioned in hundreds of hip hop songs as evidence of its mainstream appeal. A review of those songs show that the artists are not generally rapping about Cash App’s smooth user interface—many describe using it to scam, traffic drugs or even pay for murder. [See our compilation video on this here][0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StjWk3Mj-M4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StjWk3Mj-M4
- dsalzman 4y agoDown 16% pre-market @ 9:12am est
- numlocked 4y ago"CEO Jack Dorsey has publicly touted how Cash App is mentioned in hundreds of hip hop songs as evidence of its mainstream appeal. A review of those songs show that the artists are not generally rapping about Cash App’s smooth user interface—many describe using it to scam, traffic drugs or even pay for murder." Hindenburg made a music video compiling the references that is...uh...worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StjWk3Mj-M4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StjWk3Mj-M4
- chatmasta 4y agoThat was indeed worth watching.
- scotty79 4y agoIt's interesting to see it in the context of Bitcoin. It's just what people do when they can pay for things and services more freely.
- NamTaf 4y agoThis feels like awkward sponsored product placement like you see in pop music videos.
- hoofhearted 4y agoCorrect. A scam here in Baltimore that keeps occurring is that the squeege kids will run up on someone unsuspecting and start cleaning their windshield. They will pressure the driver for a tip, and the driver will say they don’t have cash of course. They will say that’s cool, you can send me a tip. They ask the driver for their phone so they can look up their cashapp for them, and bam the driver got scammed. What’s happening is that the squeege kid is looking up his account on your phone, and then sending himself like $2,000. People have complained that cashapp won’t help, and their bank isn’t letting them dispute the charge. In my opinion, this is clearly an anti pattern on Cashapps end, and I would imagine at least one engineer would have spotted this vulnerability by now. I would think that Cashapp would build in a simple pin confirmation before a stranger could wire themselves a couple thousand dollars. This has bugged me for the last 2 years lol
- overthrow 4y agoI didn't know Square had changed their name to Block. Looks like it happened in December 2021: https://investors.block.xyz/news/news-details/2021/Square-Inc.-Changes-Name-to-Block/default.aspx https://investors.block.xyz/news/news-details/2021/Square-In... That said this really seems overblown. The report seems to mostly just talk about Cash App. Square Payments, Weebly and TIDAL are not even mentioned. Afterpay is mentioned but that was a 2022 acquisition so the problems likely predate Block's involvement. It feels weird that they're using Cash App to indict the company as a whole. A single product in their portfolio doesn't justify calling the whole company a fraud.
- jevgeni 4y ago> Cash App, which analysts have said is the most important driver of the stock, has demonstrated signs of stagnation with slowing inflows and account growth.
- chii 4y ago> It feels weird that they're using Cash App to indict the company as a whole. they profit off shorting. So it makes sense to target them if the company has _some_ issues with fraud, even if it's a small part of their business, as it hasn't been priced in yet before this news breaks and people are positive about the company. They aren't doing a public service or anything. It's a reason why companies like credit suisse don't get targeted by hindenburg, because the market has almost priced in all of the fraud, and the shorting opportunities arent really there.
- likecarter 4y agoIt just ruins their reputation as a reliable short-seller. It's short-sighted. They had good reports until now.
- johngladtj 4y agoHow does it ruin their reputation as short sellers?
- mmaunder 4y agoThe pre market is looking brutal: https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/sq https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/sq Those puts are going to pay off handsomely.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y agoLooks like it's an easy way to make money, SEC won't do nothing of course.
- mikeyouse 4y agoWhat role would the SEC have? First amendment demands the freedom to publish whatever truthful information you want and there’s no restriction on profiting from “outside” information. If allegations in the report are false, the traders face legal liability. If they’re true but the market disagrees with the impact, they’ll lose money on the trades. What specific thing should the SEC be policing here?
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y agoDon't see any specific allegations, just a lot of rap song quotations and random opinions, all emotionally charged. That smells bad, just as that decade long Tether FUD that went nowhere. Anyway, just gonna buy the stock for a quick buck)
- appleiigs 4y agoI agree that the report is low quality, but if Block has issue with the truthfulness they can sue the short seller.
- hef19898 4y agoShort selling is absolutely legal. Course manipulation and insider trading are not. I guess you see the tight rope short sellers like Hindenburg are walking on, right? Also, if markets don't move following such a report short sellers stand loosing a ton of money, even if they are right. Among other companies brought down, rightly so, is Wirecard. And they played the "mean, evil short sellers try to manipulate the share price"-card hard. So, shoet sellers do have a place in our modern financial system.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y agoIsn’t this pretty bad for the Block, Inc leadership. KYC and money laundering laws are one of the few corporate laws that can result in doing actual jail time. In addition, politics being what it is, with the SVB “bailout” the Biden administration will be looking for something to show that they are not coddling Silicon Valley. Throwing a few execs in jail would send the message.
- metalliqaz 4y agoThere is no will in the government to enforce that stuff anymore
- throwayyy479087 4y agoThe real reason is here: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/block-inc/summary?id=D000071289 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/block-inc/summary?id=D00007... Why would you fuck with the DNC’s golden goose?
- olalonde 4y agoWait until they hear what rappers say about gold or cash...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mkoryak 4y agoI had never heard of cash app (probably because I'm not underbanked) until my mother in law fell for some phishing scam and the scammer was trying to get her to send money through cash app.
- tennisflyi 4y agoNah. You’re underbanked in a different way.
- mkoryak 4y agoCome again?
- rossdavidh 4y agoWhile this doesn't look great, it doesn't really seem up to the standards of past Hindenburg reports. Block's main product is credit card processing and point-of-sales, for retailers, and they have a reputation for being the easiest to use and deal with. I could easily believe that they are not doing their KYC work and that the feds will soon make them do so, but it doesn't really seem to add up to the company being a "fraud". Which, to be fair, the Hindenburg headline doesn't say, it's "Block: How Inflated User Metrics and “Frictionless” Fraud Facilitation Enabled Insiders To Cash Out Over $1 Billion". Facilitating fraud (by not doing enough KYC, etc.) rather than the company being a fraud.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> it doesn't really seem to add up to the company being a "fraud" The allegations in this report add up to wilfulness. That could result in the company’s money transmission licenses being revoked.
- appleiigs 4y agoThat's a stretch. They'll be able to remedy. Maybe they'll get fined. I'm sure they're a lot more steps in between before getting shut down.
- ajoseps 4y agoCash app now makes up the majority of Block's revenue. https://s29.q4cdn.com/628966176/files/doc_financials/2022/q4/f0d4876f-97d5-495a-b76b-1316e79608b9.pdf https://s29.q4cdn.com/628966176/files/doc_financials/2022/q4... page 74 of their 2022 Q4 10-K shows a per segment (between Square and Cash App) breakdown of revenue
- tiny_ta 4y ago> One former customer service employee estimated that 60%-70% of the accounts they reviewed during a typical shift would have more than a dozen linked accounts. Another two former employees estimated 40% and 75%, respectively. I don't think this necessarily means that 40%-75% of the accounts on Block's books were fake (as I took it to first mean from the summary). Could it just mean that the accounts that were set up for review based on high risk activity were predominantly fraudulent (as they should be)?
- zerop 4y agoDid Hindenburg ever reported Fraud and Scandals by Credit Suisse?
- hef19898 4y agoNo idea what Hindenburg did, but Credit Suisse was massively shorted for quite a while now. I just didn't make HN front page or garner enough media attention prior to the SVB debacle.
- Mengkudulangsat 4y agoYour shorts will only print when nobody else sees it coming.
- throwaway290 4y agoIf you follow activist short seller community, credit suisse is basically a running joke. The problem is it's easy to burn if you short it and it gets some magic bailout or something because it's too big to fail. Like with Tesla's business model, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Mizoguchi 4y agoLol OK.. Nathan Anderson is the founder of Hindenburg Research, a New York-based investment management firm, and a forensic financial investigator that is famous for releasing reports on alleged wrongdoing by companies. When publishing some of these reports, his company profits by short selling the target company's stocks (that is, by making a bet in securities markets that the price of the company's shares will decline). If all goes according to plan, the report itself will cause the price of the stock to decline, leaving Hindenburg Research with a profit from its short position.
- slymon99 4y agoWhy are you quoting the disclaimer as if its secret, or some kind of gotcha? Yes this is a short selling firm. While they have some incentives to exaggerate, they are trying to find and expose genuine fraud because that is what will actually affect the share price. Hindenburg's record is quite good, and many of their reports have led to followup government enforcement actions.
- Mizoguchi 4y agoNot being a secret doesn't mean people knows about them. I bet most people over here have no idea they are short sellers. I didn't know and I read a lot of news. You said it yourself, they have incentive to exaggerate (I would say a huge incentive), so people should read these reports knowing this little fact. Don't you think?
- sam_goody 4y agoWell, their name is "Hindenburg", the most famous crash in history after the Titanic. The first time I heard their name I guessed they were short sellers, and two minutes on their site confirmed it.
- finfrastrcuture 4y agoFact. But you left out the part where it turns out they've been right about their exposes. Its like with Private Equity. A part of me hates the concept and much of what's out there, but when done correctly it brings efficiency to the market. Basically, short-sellers, PE, etc. are all just more ways of monetizing investigative journalism. They're like a 'virus' for capitalism, forcing good behavior and punishing the bad.
- user3939382 4y agoFYI if anyone is interested I can prove it -- Cash App is engaged in a massive stock trading fraud. I noticed one day that my books were off (down) by 1 penny. When I dug into it, I figured out that Cash App is providing their customers with conflicting reports for their stock sales. In the app, the sales report rounds pennies up, in the actual sale, whose records are only available through more complex data export process, the penny in the sale is rounded down, and they are keeping the difference. I found the rule in the legal terms which states that the calculation in the app presented to users is the correct one, and the penny is illegally missing. This is for every trade for every one of their users. The aggregate amount of money is huge. Edit: I just looked back at my analysis and now remember in some cases the missing money is more than one penny. If anyone would like to contact me one on one I can provide more proof.
- dougSF70 4y agoThis is at the core of Superman III. Richard Priors' character notices his paycheck gets rounded down, he writes an app to harvest up the rounded down tenths of pennies...
- anotherhue 4y ago“I paid them hitters through Cash App”— Block paid to promote a video for a song called “Cash App” which described paying contract killers through the app. The song’s artist was later arrested for attempted murder.
- BLanen 4y agoPretty much all fintech innovation is avoiding kyc, fraud, and hiding fees and leverage behind "complexity"(not actually).
- pcurve 4y ago"Block’s $29 billion deal to acquire ‘buy now pay later’ (BNPL) service Afterpay closed in January 2022. " Oh man, big impairment charges coming... $29B.
- mberning 4y agoI got rid of cash app after there was a fraudulent $20 charge against my account and their customer service did absolutely nothing about it.
- mousetree 4y agoI thought it was a known fact that CashApp had minimal KYC verification (and subsequent massive problems of fraud)
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago>> Cash App’s frictionless approach lets users join with just an email or a phone number. I don't know, I've been asked to send a selfie and a driver license, and activate the physical card they sent in the mail to my registered address - all the usual KYC procedures. They also did send a 1099 form for all Bitcoins I deposited to the app in 2022.
- buildbuildbuild 4y agoI believe their UX is similar to PayPal or Stripe where anyone can “join” - but performing money transfers triggers the actual KYC “additional verification.”
- RockyMcNuts 4y agoso, you can't get a physical credit card in the mail in the name of Donald Trump, like the picture in the report? seems pretty bad if true. gotta wonder if Block was really that lax that anyone could do that, or if the authors found an exploit and gamed the system, and if the vulnerabilities have been fixed.
- codingpanic 4y agoWeird, I use cashapp as my daily debit card. Figure it reduces overall risk by only having a set amount available for use at any time. If I need to spend more? I move it to cash app, then spend it. My main checking and savings accounts do not even have cards that are active. Its all cash app all the time. Not saying they aren't doing anything wrong, just that there are plenty of legitimate uses for the service.
- polygamous_bat 4y agoI don't believe Hindenburg is claiming that 100% of all uses of Block is fraudulent. For any service, something between 0 and 100% of use case generally is fraud; their claim is that the actual percentage is much higher than what the public knows, and thus the market is overvaluing Block.
- Closi 4y agoMisleading headline - the article doesn't actually call Block Inc a fraud. It just claims that Block Inc are overvalued, that their metrics are misleading, and that their platform is facilitating fraud.
- p0pcult 4y ago[flagged]
- metalliqaz 4y agoGiven how effective this appears to be for moving the market, I'm surprised how much fluff and insubstantial evidence is present in this post. For example, the important charge that the company has supported criminal activity. An assertion is made that the company turns a blind eye to obvious criminal activity, but no hard evidence is provided. Instead it spends time on the fact that a rapper was paid to promote the service who was later arrested. We don't even get any numbers to show the rate of criminal activity that is conducted with Cash App vs Venmo, Paypal, wires, crypto, or cash.
- zephrx1111 4y agoI hope this is the last straw to end Jack Dorsey‘s career.
- boeingUH60 4y ago> “I Paid Them Hitters Through Cash App”: Block Paid To Promote A Video For A Song Called “Cash App”, Which Described Paying Contract Killers Through The App. > The Artist, “22Gz”, Was Later Arrested for Attempted Murder It astonishes me how many rappers do this. It’s one thing to be a criminal, and it’s another to rap about your crimes and do the job of the investigators…they probably think it makes them tough or something.
- polygamous_bat 4y agoI believe it is part of their marketing strategy -- being seen as a "cold blooded murderer" may add to the "cool factor" of the artist, which may appeal to the fans, even when it's artificially cultivated.
- throwayyy479087 4y agoJa Morant is currently throwing his life away because of the enormous pressure to do this. He’s from a nice family and is definitely no gangster.
- Veen 4y agoThey're just keepin' it real.
- Finnucane 4y ago"The “magic” behind Block’s business has not been disruptive innovation, but rather the company’s willingness to facilitate fraud against consumers and the government, avoid regulation, " Isn't that the whole point of 'disruptive innovation'?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- anovikov 4y agoA typical "successful" startup. Move fast and break things. Disrupt. Be bold.
- paxys 4y agoSkimmed through the report, and all of the allegations will at most amount to a token fine. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the company. Every bank and money transfer app out there facilitates criminals in some way. Every tech (especially fintech) company is overvalued. The market is overreacting because of Hindenburg’s past successes, but the stock price has already recovered by 10+ points since this morning and is rising. I predict all of it will amount to nothing in the end.
- heisenbit 4y agoWhen IBM was hit by anti trust and entered a consent degree or when Microsoft got hit for its Explorer bundling practices it spelled the end of growth. This is not only a question of fraud and size of fines. The real question is are the current multiples in its stock valuation justified?
- paxys 4y agoDo you think the government is going to overhaul the banking industry and the KYC system based on this report?
- thebiglebrewski 4y agoIs there an easy way to get exposure to Hindenburg's reports/bets, like some kind of fund that shorts the stocks they report on? Would love to get in on the action, but I'm afraid to open a brokerage account to short stocks and then make a tiny mistake and be out like a hundred grand!
- PaywallBuster 4y agofor context: I'm seeing 200k position against SQ using puts, strike price 50 Current stock price: ~ 65
- uejfiweun 4y agoWow, another example of a Jack Dorsey company being just great for our world. When are people going to realize that this guy is a total shithead?
- satoshiwasme 4y agoI'm a former block employee who has seen first hand the documents that proves these allegations. Marketing intentionally preyed on poor communities to promote cash app. They would refer to cash app as "payments for poor people". What's worse is Jack uses a large part of the companies budget to fund his personal Bitcoin projects. If you voiced any concerned you were silenced and eventually terminated.
- peanuty1 4y ago> What's worse is Jack uses a large part of the companies budget to fund his personal Bitcoin projects. I also worked at Block until earlier this year and AFAIK, the % of Block's overall operating costs spent on Bitcoin side projects is very low. Maybe 1% or something like that.