13 ms·
The words you choose within an app are an essential part of its user experience
- ravagat 4y agoI'm curious if anyone here has links to a pdf/printable version of these docs by Apple? Or even if anyone knows anyone compiling an archive of diff. versions?
- urbandw311er 4y agoThis thread is a great example of how subjective matters of design are.. ..and what a nightmare any sort of “design by committee” can become.
- barrysteve 4y agoIf we're fully committing to the new and improved culture, then logically we need to ditch the word "write". The root word of write, is a proto-indo-european word that means 'to cut, mark'. Writing grew out of making permanent cuts on stone and permanent marks on paper. The culture of the writing era exemplified cut earthwork and decorative marks. We don't do that verb anymore, we type. We push buttons and symbolize words in binary streams. Our culture celebrates games, software and movies that are pushed out into the world and symbolize something. We can't keep overloading the meaning of the word 'write' and expect people to understand what's going on.
- HL33tibCe7 4y agoBizarre take. Should people also not use the word write when referring to using a pen and paper? That’s also not cutting or marking.
- barrysteve 4y agoIt exactly is marking paper.
- yamtaddle 4y agoWait until you find out how academics use the verb "to read".
- iddan 4y agoShameless plug: if you want to empower your team to iterate your UX text in web apps (React, Angular, Vue, etc) FlyCode lets non-technical teammates make changes to UX texts and send a PR to GitHub with the text changes: https://www.flycode.com/developers https://www.flycode.com/developers
- mlajtos 4y agoI would like to take a moment to appreciate also the localization of the words. I deal with technical English my whole life, so I have no problem understanding computer terminology, but using Mac UI in my native language is quite beautiful experience. (Compared to Windows, Android or Linux.) I can't really wait when Siri will speak every language. (ChatGPT is pretty great at this, so my hope is that Apple will take notice.)
- timthorn 4y agoThere's a need for localisation of tone, too. Even if the language is common, culture is not.
- yieldcrv 4y agoA job for ChatGPT Fire the copy team, and if you never had one now you dont need this skillset either Enjoy coding in the building blocks together and compiling, peace
- Lio 4y ago> Interjections like “oops!” or “uh-oh” are typically unnecessary and can sound insincere. This is a good observation. I'd also avoid stuff like "Maybe Later" buttons, instead of allowing the user to just say "No". I believe the idea is to gently inform the user that they can perform the action later but it comes across as a passive aggressive way of removing control. i.e. the user wants to say no, full stop, but the app/website is telling them that they'll just nag them again until they accept regardless.
- thrdbndndn 4y agoI actually like "maybe later". As soon as it's provided with "no" together (which IME usually is the case), I have no issue with it.
- urbandw311er 4y agoIndeed. But often I do see just the two options "Yes" / "Maybe later" and this is infuriating.
- Lio 4y agoThat's it in one. The cutesy "be kind" language does not hide the reality of the "heads I win, tails you loose" choice from the user.
- the_af 4y agoI've no problem with "yes / maybe later". To me, "maybe later" implies "no" is also a possibility. I don't read passive/aggressiveness into it, and I don't need a separate "no" option which would add nothing. Why do I like seeing the "maybe later" option? Because the app's devs are telling me "this is possible to configure later; we thought about this flow, and you won't be locked out of this option if you skip it now". If they don't show this wording, maybe they thought about it, maybe not. Maybe I'll be forced to reinstall the app from scratch. Who knows!
- urbandw311er 4y agoSo very true. Atlassian were the worst at this; their laggy software would error out, filling you with rage, and you'd be faced with a dialog titled something utterly insincere like "Whoops!".
- KronisLV 4y agoThe images don't load for me for whatever reason, but the alt text is set up nicely, which is great to see! Image: /design/human-interface-guidelines/foundations/writing/images/fall-detection-message.png Alt: A screenshot of a Fall Detection message that reads: it looks like you've taken a hard fall. Image: /design/human-interface-guidelines/foundations/writing/images/move-streak-message.png Alt: A screenshot of an Activity message that reads: you set a personal record for your longest daily Move streak, 35 days! Image: /design/human-interface-guidelines/foundations/writing/images/handwashing-settings.png Alt: A screenshot showing the Handwashing Timer description, which reads: Apple Watch can detect when you're washing your hands and start a 20-second timer. These are pretty useful for not just when using a screen reader or maybe a text based browser or something, but also when the images themselves break.
- toastal 4y agoJust as important of a side note for supporting text-based browsers and screen readers: if the images are purely decorative, you should make it alt="". https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/decorative/ https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/images/decorative/ Don't do: <h1><img src alt="ACME logo">ACME</h1>.
- ryanjamurphy 4y agoHuh, this is a good tip. I've always provided a rich description of decorative images, because I didn't want screen readers to "miss out," but apparently that was a bad idea!
- snowwrestler 4y agoWell the logo might not be a great example, as it is often clickable to the home page and should have alt text so people know what it is. A better example is when a site has little stock photo thumbnails with article titles on a navigational page. The screen reader can read the title text; knowing what’s in the thumbnail adds nothing. Images should only have alt text when they contain “real” content (for example if it is an original photo that is relevant to the associated story).
- lapama 4y agoAnd sane with the words you write while using it.
- gitgud 4y agoA tiny UX tidbit I like, is the "close dialog" buttons in some products, consider the following 2 buttons: [ Dismiss ] "Dismiss" is self-deprecating and is an implicit admission that the warning is annoying, which makes the user less engaged. [ Got it ] "Got it" or similar phrasing subconsciously encourages the user that they understand the message and can continue. Even if they don't care about the message at all, at least the message doesn't consider itself "Dismissable" and unimportant... it's a subtle UX change, but makes dialogs are bit more tolerable...
- catmanjan 4y agoI find the familiarity that modern software assumes unnerving. Everything has a time and place, I wouldn’t want a Got It button while filling out an official form.
- ninkendo 4y ago“Got it” buttons fill me with rage in a way I can’t really articulate well. It’s probably due to the mental association at this point, but they always come up in ridiculous first-run tutorials that block me from using their product until I read and acknowledge some inane UI feature like “you can drag your finger to swipe!” or something equally obvious. A “got it!” button (especially with the stupid fucking exclamation point) makes the software feel like the overly enthusiastic waiter from the restaurant in Office Space who is just nauseatingly upbeat. Fuck off and get me my coffee. I’d love an OS-wide extension that would take replace the text on every “Got It!” button with “Fuck Off”. I know it would accomplish nothing but it would make me feel so much better using my phone. > which makes the user less engaged I don’t want to be “engaged” using your software. I want to accomplish my task and move on with my life. Why must every single aspect of software try to be my buddy nowadays? Why do I need to be “engaged” with it?
- MereInterest 4y agoThe UX that I like best is the one that provides the opt-out at the point where it would be an annoyance. Whenever there's a pop-up, I want an option to say "Don't show me notices of this kind again.". This requires a measure of humility on the part of developers, to acknowledge that learning about the feature they just added may not be the top priority of all users at all times, and an alternative way to learn about the UI. Start-up tips that have options of "Close this tip", "Never show tips again", and "Next tip" are the best example, because they account both for users who want to learn more about the program and users who already know how to use the program.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- wkjagt 4y agoSomething I’ve always found interesting is wording in 1st person vs 2nd person. For example a link to “your orders” vs “my orders”. They’re both legit, but feel totally different. And I guess there’s a third, neutral option: just “orders”. The article mentions this very briefly, but this difference has a pretty profound effect on how the relation between the site and myself feels, that it doesn’t go into. I wonder how deliberate this decision (1st or 2nd person) is on most sites.
- jononomo 4y agoIt seems to me that most apps choose the "my orders" approach, but I prefer to use an app that uses the "your orders" approach. It feels more professional to me and less like I'm being conned into something.
- Savageman 4y agoAnd then you have to translate it, which also is essential to UX. Reminds of of this 10 years-old article which is still relevant today: https://alistapart.com/article/translation-is-ux/ https://alistapart.com/article/translation-is-ux/
- andy_ppp 4y agoI’m skeptical UI matters and I sometimes think if you get traction with extremely poor UI (as is often the case) it implies you’re solving something people need and people are willing to circumvent your bad design yet still find value you’re probably onto a winner. Sure, be kind to your users once you have some traction but I think nice UX or even words isn’t hugely important.
- mmacvicarprett 4y agoApple makes great hardware, good OSs, horrible apps, indecent websites. Also, they use a very preechy way of advising, which for me means they think they are right, instead of looking at the market to tell us what works or not.
- macspoofing 4y agoIt's a nice set of guidelines but does Apple have credibility in this area? Specifically, does Apple actually follow what they preach (looking at you 'Write clear error messages')? Or more generally, are Apple's apps as good or better than what is out in the industry?
- jmbwell 4y agoThis thread is full of great discussion. Writing clearly can clearly be hard. It takes practice and skill. This is why technology programs in schools require (or should require) technical writing courses. It might not seem important to know how to write for humans when you’re learning to write for machines, but writing for humans is one of the most important things you can learn, in any discipline.
- visarga 4y ago> Writing clearly can clearly be hard. I'm wondering if GPT3 + a set of copyrighting instructions + your draft can generate a list of suggestions for improvement.
- tnel77 4y agoAs an engineer, I hate writing. That being said, one of the best classes I took during my undergraduate studies was a class called “Technical Communication.” We learned how to write a good email, memo, and even technical instructions. For one of our big projects, we were given a box of Dots (gummy candy) and a box of toothpicks. We had to create a structure and then write instructions for another group of students to recreate said structure. Many students did poorly because they would simply write out their instructions like “put a toothpick in the side of the dot.” What does that even mean? They never established top or bottom, so side could be anything.
- cratermoon 4y ago> It’s always best to help people avoid errors. When an error message is necessary, it should appear as close to the problem as possible, avoid blame, and be clear about what someone can do to fix it. Try designing with the idea in mind that the user will never see an error. First, instead of coming at it from the point of view "the user made an error", start from "the program was not useable enough". Much like a door with handle that cannot be pulled, but must be pushed, a program with a UI that appears to allow an action but really doesn't, the issue is not the person's fault. Respond to failures to complete the action the user attempted with alternates. Imagine how frustrating it would be if you went to buy coffee and the person working there simply said, "no, you've made an error" when you tried to order something they're out of. You'd right avoid doing business there ever again.
- mattknightlewis 4y agoI'd rather read overly technical language that assumes intelligence or curiosity on the part of the reader, rather than comforting euphemisms. When I was a kid I thought SimCity1993 really was "reticulating splines" during the loading screen and it didn't scare me off. Now Windows (which ought to be a lot less cheeky than Maxis) will print something like "We (who?) are just (just?) finishing some things (things?!) up for you"
- neon_electro 4y agoDo you think your opinion is representative of the majority of folks who use technology?
- mattknightlewis 4y agoOf course not, but I see that fact as an indicator of the collateral damage in the continued "War on General Computing" more than anything else. The customer is not always right - what they may want is to be infantilized, but what they need is to be educated.
- neon_electro 4y agoI've been witness to this "War on General Computing", being a 31 year old human who's used computers for the better part of 28-29 years of that time. I'm not convinced the shift you're describing as far as UX writing is anywhere near as concerning as the actual war on general computing with respect to running the OS you want, the software you want, with restrictions as necessary for security but not for vendor lock-in.
- mattknightlewis 4y agoUX writing tone, of course, is only a tiny piece of the overall foreclosure of customization that the current era of UX designers is complicit in. I see a continuum between cutesy UX writing and reduced ability to customize any and all settings by the end user; You think there is an "actual war" separate from the propaganda used to manufacture consent for it. Gilded cages need gilt - that gold leaf takes the form of emojis etc.
- none_to_remain 4y agoLooks like a guide to bland consistent mediocrity
- visarga 4y agoMore generally, the UI is just as important as the algorithm behind it. We see social networks doing all sorts of UI shenanigans to trick users into doing their bidding. It's not enough to allow customisation of our algorithmic feeds, we need to have a level of control over the UI as well.
- m3kw9 4y agoInstead of “It looks like you have fell, call 911?”, go “Oh no! You fell! Omg! Call an Ambulance, but not for me?”
- zwilliamson 4y agomaybe they should try to improve user experience with their own applications before telling others what to do? Finder on MacOS: probably should be renamed to Hider. Just a horrible file explorer interface. I couldn’t imagine something worst. I ended up training my family on how to use the Terminal and mdfind command instead. Apple Photos and the shared album interface is such a pain to work with as a user. I hope it’s not just me! I could go on but I’ll stop here.
- ravagat 4y agoNice, valuable resource here for anyone in any position in a business. Apple is one of the best with user experience so having a laid out guidelines like this is a public service. Thanks for sharing
- pivic 4y agoThis is one example; there are other examples of frameworks and term lists: https://pivic.blog/blog/technical-writing/#technical-style-guides https://pivic.blog/blog/technical-writing/#technical-style-g...
- AlbertCory 4y ago> Write clear error messages Totally. So often, the message that comes out on a "this should never happen" branch of the code is a random invention of a junior coder, and never reviewed by anyone. > be clear about what someone can do to fix it. "Sorry, an error has occurred." i.e. All hope abandon, ye who enter here.
- gampleman 4y agoError messages are one of the items on my mental code review checklist that gets very often excersized, since going from terrible to OK is usually pretty easy, but it's often a very different mindset from the actual programming task that introduced that error pathway. So usually it's up to the reviewer to notice and guide the author to that improvement.
- dewey 4y ago> branch of the code is a random invention of a junior coder No need to blame interns or junior coders, this is done by big corporations after going through reviews and design iterations too.
- pavlov 4y agoMany of Apple’s own apps are egregiously bad at reporting errors — as in, they don’t report them at all. When Airdrop doesn’t work, it just gets stuck. No timeout, no nothing. I guess that’s very clean from a UX writing perspective because you don’t even need an error message. But it’s extremely frustrating to the user. The iOS Family features suffer a similar lack of feedback. I toggle an app limit for my child and sometimes it just secretly doesn’t register on the server. I navigate back and forth to see the UI action hasn’t taken effect. (Often I wonder if anybody at Apple actually has kids because Family works incredibly poorly. 30-second delays are common. Notifications don’t come through. User flows go through confusing incorrect states. Etc. Feels like it’s maintained on leftover MobileMe infra by junior developers who have no idea why anyone would even use this product.)
- tshaddox 4y agoAirDrop is a particularly egregious outlier. It’s clear that something has gone very, very wrong with that feature. Not only with how unreliable it is, which is already bad enough, but with how clearly broken that basic state machine driving the UI is. Once it has gotten into a bad state, from my experience there’s no way to get it to succeed without restarting one or both iPhones.
- msy 4y agoAnd yet so often UX Writing is distained as an unecessary job that can be handled by designers or PMs instead of recognising the verbs and nouns of your product are its fundamental architecture to users. And that's before you get to voice & tone.
- airtonix 4y ago[dead]
- hackernewds 4y agoWhy the supposition that PMs and designers cannot learn this within < a week? Driven by personal qualm or bias perhaps
- ThrowawayTestr 4y agoUX is an art and you can't learn art in a week.
- brigandish 4y ago[flagged]
- politelemon 4y agoThis is unnecessarily condescending and doesn't actually answer the question.
- brigandish 4y ago[flagged]
- Karunamon 4y agoPlease leave such condescension and other toxic commenting behaviors on reddit where they belong.
- Razengan 4y agoYes! I've always found Microsoft's "welcome" messages in Windows installation to be extremely condescending and obnoxious (something they have an history of, even if unintentionally, going back to Clippy and beyond) On the other hand, Apple is guilty of sparse and vague error messages, or not giving any messages at all and letting things fail silently (like when AirDrop or Personal Hotspot magically just not work)
- markdown 4y agoAirdrop fails randomly at least 50% of the time I use it. And this experience is pretty consistent across over a decade of use with macbooks, mac minis, iphones (right up to the current 14) and tablets for an entire family. It's just garbage 50% of the time, and you end up trying random things... "restart your bluetooth" "ok that didn't work, now I'll restart mine." "ok still not working, lets both restart our bluetooth at the same time while chanting Jobs Jobs Jobs" "ok now let's try a restart of both devices." "fuck it, just use viber or email."
- Razengan 4y agoThe debugger in me wants to think that it tries the local WiFi network first and something in your router or whatever messes it up but since the whole point is for Apple↔Apple communication, shouldn't the devices talk to each other directly first?
- alex_suzuki 4y agoAFAIK they do, via Bluetooth to negotiate the connection. The actual payload is then transferred via WiFi.
- politelemon 4y agoI don't see it, it's sparse yes, but condescending and obnoxious is an excessive description. It might be that you're going in to Windows installation with a preset prejudice.
- piperswe 4y agoLooks like the screenshots on this page are dead, they're giving me 404s
- ssgodderidge 4y agoStrange. Works for me. Maybe they can't handle the hn-induced traffic? ;)
- chungy 4y agoDoesn't work for me either.
- ssgodderidge 4y agoHere's a favorite UX error message of mine from chase.com >"Your session is about to end. You've been inactive for a while. For your security, we'll automatically sign you out in approximately 1 minute. You may choose "Stay signed in" to continue or sign out if you're done." No stress put on the user with a timer (e.g. "You will be logged out in 3...2...1"). Instead, they simply state the facts in a calm way. "For your security" tells me why they're logging me out. Perfect voice for a bank. I want that level of simplicity in all my financial apps.
- masswerk 4y agoIsn't this considered terrible UX nowadays? Shouldn't a button "Maybe stay signed in later" be the only option to continue the countdown? ;-)
- twodave 4y ago[ title: You have been inactive for a while ] [ dialog: To help keep your account secure, you will be signed out in approximately 1 minute. ] [ button: Keep me signed in] [ button: Sign out ] [ maybe a link: Why am I seeing this? ]
- hackernewds 4y agoYMMY it seems overly wordy for me, and makes the bank seem amateurish and that they don't respect their users' time. Which would dissuade me from a banking app
- hackernewds 4y agoFrom the article > Be clear. Choose words that are easily understood and convey the right thing. Check each word to be sure it needs to be there.
- ssgodderidge 4y agoI could see that POV. If it helps, they use effective visual formatting. The first sentence is an enlarged heading, and the rest of the text is smaller underneath.
- 4y ago
- mvellandi 4y agoI’ve always thought of users as guests, and your website/app acts as the concierge for various services. They speak clearly, consistently, are helpful, and act according to the situation at hand.
- fwlr 4y agoApple’s Human Interface Guidelines are a wonderful set of documents. Apple doesn’t always live up to them and sometimes egregiously violates them, but I take a Stephensonian view of this hypocrisy (“That we occasionally violate our own stated moral code … does not imply that we are insincere in espousing that code. … No one ever said that it was easy to hew to a strict code of conduct”). I prefer that the document exists and they fail to live up to it, rather than the document be changed to reflect how they do operate.
- psychoslave 4y ago>That we occasionally violate our own stated moral code … does not imply that we are insincere in espousing that code. … No one ever said that it was easy to hew to a strict code of conduct Interesting point. I think the statement miss an important additional point: it’s hard to come upfront with a rule set that is reality proof. More than the rules, what matter is why the rules was first uttered. To my mind, provided you agree with the underlying spirit, it’s better to break the exact rule and keep its purpose guidance in mind than strictly and blindly apply the literal interpretation of the rule and sap its genius.
- Narishma 4y agoMicrosoft's UI guidelines were good too in the Windows 95-98 era before they went downhill. Their problem was that they didn't follow them in their own major applications like Office.
- swyx 4y agowho is the Stephenson whom you are quoting here and what was his context?
- airstrike 4y agoThe one and only Neal Stephenson in The Diamond Age https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/119463-that-we-occasionally-violate-our-own-stated-moral-code-does https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/119463-that-we-occasionally...
- Version467 4y ago
- wruza 4y agoThe “it looks like you’ve blah blah” example is terrible, imo. The last thing I’d want to deal with after a hard fall is this chatter. The correct way to do it is: (Attention sound) Did you just fall? ((SOS) swipe for help) [I’m okay] The original message doesn’t even mention it’s a swipe. I can imagine a stressed person trying to tap that message or icon without realizing it doesn’t work. Targeting at eldery you must be crystal clear, not subtle-UX-clear.
- HL33tibCe7 4y agoStrong disagree. “Did you just fall?” is more confusing: in that case, the watch is not directly telling you what it thinks happened; instead, it is asking a leading question. It’s way less clear. You’re relying on implication to convey the fact that the watch thinks you’ve fallen, rather than just saying it. If you’ve hit your head and are concussed, that extra level of indirection and confusion that your question introduces could have a significant effect on the outcome of the situation.
- bruce343434 4y agoI don't understand your point of view. There is no indirection. It's just a simple question, yes or no, did you just fall?
- Hackbraten 4y agoIt’s entirely unclear to me what the consequences of the yes/no choice would be. Furthermore, falling is not binary, so there’s the question about where the boundary is. In an emergency situation, I don’t want to have to deal with any of this. It’s terrible UX.
- bruce343434 4y agoSo maybe a message like "Call emergency services?" "Yes" "No" Although it removes the context of the watch' reasoning.
- inthefells 4y agoMonzo have an interesting "tone of voice" guide that they've made public https://monzo.com/tone-of-voice/ https://monzo.com/tone-of-voice/ I've found it at least to be another useful starting point for things to consider.
- alkonaut 4y agoSo you spend a lot of time and effort choosing terminology and phrasing these messages, then you need to translate it to N languages, and you are mostly out of luck. I tried to translate back one (of several thousand) of carefully phrased messages from a third party translation into English, and it was nowhere close. Was this a problem with google translate? Is it some limitation in the language? Who knows. In the end I realized that the product has a consistent and well thought out language only for the languages the development team speaks, and that will never be very many. I guess the takeaways is this: If you can, an application in the language it was developed in, even if there is a translation to a language you master better. Because after a certain limit the importance is how well the developers master the language, not you.
- trinix912 4y agoHold up, are you really relying on Google Translate for that? Hiring an actual translation team solves this problem.
- alkonaut 4y agoNo, I am not google translating. I was just doing that as a "reverse test" to see what the translators had actually written. We are using translators who are proficient in the domain and speak 2 languages at least (English plus the target language). But they are still "external" to the team. They have some domain knowledge, but they don't have the true conceptual knowledge about what things are called in the program. Translators inside the development team (for the couple of languages covered by the developers) don't make the mistake of picking an incorrect synonym. The external translators might, despite good domain knowledge. The problem with it is: We don't notice. Because we don't speak the language! E.g. if you make an architectural program, you might call things "floor", "level", or "storey". In an editor you might have "object", "entity" and so on) and all of these might exist and mean different things in the program. Language wise they may well be synonymous, but in the "domain language" of the program they might be very different.
- numpad0 4y ago
- golergka 4y agoHave anyone tried ChatGPT for this? It must be pretty good at following these guidelines.
- iddan 4y agoI use GitHub CoPilot for this all the time!
- exodust 4y agoI'd ignore advice from Apple or Big Tech about how to use words. They are not language experts. They are not content experts. They are infected with the same over-sensitive "inclusivity" reaction that has spread far and wide like a virus. Apple has adopted the widely criticised Stanford harmful words list. At bottom of this article are link to another page which has the following advice: "Avoid 'Peanut gallery' and 'grandfathered'". Because they arose from oppressive contexts. People are not "grandfathers" at their core. Nobody becomes a grandfather because they had an accident and woke up with the unwanted new identity. Grandfathers won't protest in the street about the term used in tech circles. Grandfather is a name describing their relative position in a family tree. "master", "slave", "sanity check", "kill"... Apple says no to all the usual copy and paste words from the list. The viral nature of these lists spreading around is of concern. "Fall through the cracks", "on the same page", and "backseat driver"... Apple says no. - support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/applestyleguide/toc
- rchaud 4y agoWho would have thought that Apple, a niche brand known to so few, would feel the need to use inclusive language? Mac? More like PC gone mad! /s
- exodust 4y agoWithout your '/s' I'd be lost in the rough seas of your intended meaning. Feeling the need to copy a list of words is not the same as feeling the need to be inclusive. Besides, using those words and phrases isn't offensive to anyone other than a small minority of... "language activists" for want of a better description. The same people modifying books down to story elements like what jobs the characters have. "Check the history of words" is not a UX concern, and shouldn't be in style guides alongside "avoid 'click here'".
- throwaway09432 4y agoHonestly, all I care about is speed. Couple of word swaps here and there using a thesaurus, who gives a shit.