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The worst part of this disaster in particular is the entirely local effects including cancer, pain, suffering, and death caused by the release of these chemical
by matt123456789 4y ago
The worst part of this disaster in particular is the entirely local effects including cancer, pain, suffering, and death caused by the release of these chemicals. But yes, the worst part of this pattern of behavior from the US leadership is that catastrophes like this will continue to happen all over.
- mandmandam 4y agoI think OP's point is that since no heads will roll for this, despite it being known that this would happen sooner or later, it will keep happening in other local areas. If Northern Southern were to feel this incident in their pocket book, they might stop lobbying to gut safety regulations... However, it's very clear that neither legislative, judicial, executive or media positions give a flying fuck to stop this; in fact, they'll go to extreme lengths such as breaking strikes and media coordination to keep the status quo. So it will happen again, and again, until one day it actually does fuck up a major city - and even then, the people responsible will probably be insulated from consequences.
- matt123456789 4y agoYeah, on rereading, it seems like you are spot on. I edited my comment to reflect that.
- xadhominemx 4y agoThere were no hospitalizations reported and the chemicals released are not really carcinogens. The risk from this particular chemical spill was acute injury, but fortunately that was avoided.
- lordnacho 4y agoIsn't vinyl chloride a carcinogen?
- LarryMullins 4y agoHell yes, and burning it is sure to create dioxins which are carcinogenic too.
- xadhominemx 4y agoYou can get dioxins when burning vinyl chloride polymers (“poly vinyl chloride”), but not the vinyl chloride monomer, if my chemistry degree serves me correctly.
- LarryMullins 4y ago[flagged]
- xadhominemx 4y agoWell like I said I used to be a chemist so I was exposed to organic vapors every day. if the dioxins are there they will be very easy to measure.
- LarryMullins 4y agoFor starters, you could acknowledge that a train explosion is already well outside normal lab conditions for vinyl chloride. Don't pretend you know what compounds were formed in this accident. Modeling this incident as a low exposure (see: your dismissal of the carcinogenic nature of vinyl chloride) to the pure substance is absurd. Put your life where your mouth is and go live there.
- dang 4y agoWould you please stop posting flamebait/unsubstantive comments? You've been doing it repeatedly, unfortunately, and if you keep doing it then we're going to have to ban you again. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- bmj 4y agoHave there been analysis done on how this affected local wildlife?
- dapearce 4y agoVinyl chloride is a declared brain, lung, blood, and liver carcinogen. https://www.fastcompany.com/90848025/ohio-train-derailment-toxic-chemicals-pvc-spill-fire-disaster https://www.fastcompany.com/90848025/ohio-train-derailment-t...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- clysm 4y agoVinyl chloride is a known human carcinogen that causes a rare cancer of the liver[0]. Livestock is dying and getting sick in the area[1], including fish in rivers[2]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_chloride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinyl_chloride [1] https://nypost.com/2023/02/10/animals-sick-dying-near-east-palestine-ohio-train-crash/ https://nypost.com/2023/02/10/animals-sick-dying-near-east-p... [2] https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/officials-speak-on-dead-fish-following-train-derailment/ https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-de...
- xadhominemx 4y agoYes please read the links you just posted. Exposure to high concentrations for a long time (eg, if you spent a career in a vinyl chloride production facility pre-OSHA) is associated with a measurable increase in cancer rate. It’s not going to be a reasonable concern in this instance.
- synthpop 4y ago? In this instance, the risks to be worried about is far more than just cancer. And it isn't exactly comparable to a career in a vinyl chloride factory because factories don't typically have these production chemicals ablaze and mixed with whatever else was in the train wreckage, seeping into the surrounding earth, water and air. Before even speculating on the undetermined adverse health effects of this event in the long term, the immediate impact of this environmental disaster should warrant a mandatory evacuation and corporate accountability.
- xadhominemx 4y agoThis is not a theoretical question — the burn already happened a week ago and the EPA and other agencies are there monitoring for contaminants.
- mjhay 4y agoThere are many other chemicals at play here due to the controlled burn under an inversion layer.
- bsenftner 4y ago>The worst part of this disaster ...is the fact that nothing will change, and it is just a matter of time before this happens again, and again, and again. Our media barely report, and then under report the seriousness. It may as well not exist, except for all the harm that will continue for decades. But the executives and shareholders have record profits, so everything is fantastic, absolutely no reason to change.
- parasubvert 4y agoThese sorts of accidents do not happen that often relative to the quantity of freight that moves. Put any economic system underneath the rail (or trucks) you want, accidents will still happen, as the demand for dangerous goods doesn't just evaporate. It requires attention to detail combined with political will to improve safety.
- kodah 4y ago> Our media barely report, and then under report the seriousness The national media isn't very good at representing issues outside of major cities. Events like this are largely unimportant to people living in the places they sell their stories to. In a way, you're not asking the media to change, you're asking Americans to care about those areas at all.
- yunwal 4y agoThe Chinese balloons weren’t in a large metropolitan area. more likely explanation is that this story has a pro-labor narrative, and that’s not what media companies are paid to push.
- jollofricepeas 4y agoLet’s be fair… The media chases clicks and attention. News reading Americans rather read about “Is it China or aliens?”, the war in Ukraine, earthquake in Middle East and the Super Bowl than small-town Ohio.
- 4y ago
- mikewarot 4y agoAccording to [1] Phil Lewis on Twitter... "Norfolk Southern, the railway company responsible for an apocalyptic plume of gas rose over East Palestine, Ohio, has offered a $25,000 donation to assist the area’s nearly 5,000 residents who were ordered to evacuate their homes, or face death" Personally, I think $25,000 per person displaced would be a good start to making restitution. Anyone forced to move should receive at least triple the market rate price of their home/farm/etc. before the accident. Serious financial implications are the only thing that will cause behavior shift in large organizations. [1] https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1624749208174567424 https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1624749208174567424
- Jcowell 4y ago> Norfolk Southern, the railway company responsible for an apocalyptic plume of gas rose over East Palestine, Ohio, has offered a $25,000 donation to assist the area’s nearly 5,000 residents I read this as $25,000 in total not per person.
- mikewarot 4y agoNobody would be that insulting, that would be a "Let them eat cake" moment Yet that's what they did.