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I’ve always heard that Japanese software developers were very poorly paid compared to their us counterparts. This 10% might be pretty terrible if your peers rec
by nickpeterson 4y ago
I’ve always heard that Japanese software developers were very poorly paid compared to their us counterparts. This 10% might be pretty terrible if your peers received large raises for years beforehand.
I do feel like something is off with Nintendo, their games seem very scarce recently. Either they’re launching a new system this year at e3 or Covid really messed up their dev practices.
- ronyeh 4y agoThe last time they launched a big Zelda game, it was pushed to two consoles (Switch and the previous gen Wii U). So maybe you're right. The next Zelda is coming in several months.
- BudaDude 4y agoThis is also true of Zelda Twilight Princess. It released on the Gamecube and the Wii. Nintendo has a history of launching consoles with the newest Zelda game.
- kevinventullo 4y agoI’m not so sure. The new Zelda appears to use the exact same engine as the previous one.
- TillE 4y agoDoesn't really tell us anything. It's a lot easier to port an engine vs writing a new one from scratch, especially if the new system is also just an ARM64 processor with an NVIDIA GPU.
- bogwog 4y agoDoes Nvidia still make mobile GPUs? Tegra was a flop afaik, which is why Nintendo picked it, since they could buy whole container ships of them for cheap. What’s a relatively modern SOC that sold poorly and was manufactured in large volumes? That’s probably what the next Nintedo console will use.
- doublepg23 4y agoMy ideal (new) Switch 2 (U) would be taking advantage of AMDs mobile APUs but I think they're hamstrung with backwards ARM compatibility with how good the Switches library is.
- lukevp 4y agoIf everything’s built against an abstracted SDK, they could have games ported over with just a recompile potentially. If the new system is much higher performance then any optimizations against ARM would be a non issue. If they allow lower level access to the hardware, it would be a lot harder, but you could conceivably implement a GPU emulation at the hardware layer. Or depending on costs, just include the entire SOC for the compatibility mode, like PS3 did for PS2.
- christkv 4y agoI think if they want to keep the form factor they need the higher performance per watt that arm cores can offer.
- shaunsingh0207 4y agoThey make desktop-class mobile gpu's, but nothing like the switch. However, they do still make embedded dev kits (https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/autonomous-machines/embedded-systems/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/autonomous-machines/embedded-sy...), with their newest ones running on ampere. The Jetson nano is the same chip as the nintendo switch, with half the cuda cores iirc.
- staticman2 4y agoNvidia is believed to be developing a custom mobile GPU for Nintendo's next console. They posted a job ad in 2022 saying "looking to hire a deeply technical, creative and hands-on software engineer to pioneer the next generation of Graphics Developer Tools for Game Consoles" Nvidia's only game console client is Nintendo.
- amatecha 4y ago"Exact same"? That's a colossal assumption. A company the size of Nintendo will absolutely make improvements to the new iteration of the engine - some clearly noticeable to players, some not. Thinking back historically, many game series used the "same" engine. Quake 1/2/3, Halo 1/2/3, Command & Conquer / Red Alert, Witcher 2/3/Cyberpunk2077, Elder Scrolls 3/4/5/Fallout3/NV/4 and so on (too lazy to think of more). Further, think of how many games are made with Unity, Unreal Engine, etc. Yet further, check the credits list of Breath of the Wild -- they absolutely have the workforce to make serious changes to the engine and work on a compelling new game in concert: https://www.mobygames.com/game/switch/legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild/credits https://www.mobygames.com/game/switch/legend-of-zelda-breath...
- peanuty1 4y agoDo not underestimate how incredibly cheap Nintendo is. The latest Pokemon games were riddled with bugs that you would not expect from the biggest media franchise in the world by revenue.
- MauroIksem 4y agoGame devs in the US are paid shit too. Average is around 90k..i can't imagine it's that much worse in Japan.
- BudaDude 4y ago90k isn't terrible for a creative position. The crunch makes it not worth it though.
- ipaddr 4y agoAn entry level game developer (1-3 years of experience) earns an average salary of ¥8,386,388. On the other end, a senior level game developer (8+ years of experience) earns an average salary of ¥14,449,841. Which is 90 to 160 Canadian
- Aeolun 4y agoThis seems absurdly high. I barely see people making those kinds of salaries in large foreign companies. Anecdotally, my friend earned something like 5M yen and was working 10-12 hour days including Saturday at entry/mid level.
- ipaddr 4y agohttps://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/game-developer/japan/tokyo#:~:text=An%20entry%20level%20game%20developer,average%20salary%20of%20%C2%A514%2C449%2C841 https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/game-developer/japan....
- Danieru 4y agoThat data is pure fantasy.
- diceduckmonk 4y agoI think you've prematurely dropped-the-mic. Linking a URL doesn't legitimize your claim. I've worked extensively with the best salary datasets available. Even then, you shouldn't believe everything you read. Even when the data is good, it's not reality. I fail to believe SalaryExperts are anywhere near experts in this case when there is so many odd points on that page. For starters, it's kind of weird to fix game dev salaries on Tokyo when the Kyoto Triangle is a thing. I have on-the-ground context on Japan because I can see the Nintendo office from my backyard. People who aren't familiar with Japan don't realize that Tokyo city doesn't even exist or at least stopped existing over a century ago. That's just a litmus test as to why you trust the anecdotal evidence of people who actually live and work in Japan over a cherrypicked website from Google search for "game dev salary Japan".
- InCityDreams 4y agoIsn't it [still] rather useless to compare US wages vs other countries? I mean, I'd probably be on a huge income if it didn't just cost me €90 (ninety euro) for a 6 day stint in hospital. Let alone the drugs, sleep meds, replacement for my regular chems, etc. Plus, a 6x 2x a week physio course after - €35 for 12x50 min courses. At this rate , with just a couple of car crashes and an accident at work, I'd be a millionaire no time. In America.
- astrange 4y agoUK real wages have been declining for years. I promise Americans are actually significantly wealthier and higher paid than British people, and FAANG workers have good healthcare.
- IshKebab 4y agoEven accounting for healthcare, US software developers are far better paid than anywhere else. I think the UK is maybe the next best paid and it's still only 50-70% of the US.
- Analemma_ 4y agoI have a friend at Nvidia who worked on the GPU for the Switch, and so worked closely with Nintendo employees, and he said he was appalled at how much more he made than people at his equivalent seniority. It's pretty bad.
- it_citizen 4y agoIt is pretty likely that nvidia engineers are also outliers compared to the market. It is FANG level compensation no?
- laurieg 4y agoJapanese employment law is a bit of a double edged sword. It's very difficult to fire employees, so if you hire someone on a high salary and it turns out they weren't worth it you are now stuck with an employee for years or decades. You basically have to show that employee is malicious to get rid of them. Low wages is one way to soften this risk. The other side of this is many people are not full time employees. Dispatch (派遣) employees are employed by one company and then sent to work alongside regular employees at other companies, with the dispatch company taking a good slice. The employer is now able to shrink their workforce more easily and the employee gets a smaller piece of the pie. Simply writing a temporary contract might not even be enough. Recent changes to the law say that if you have been on temporary contract that is renewed for 5 years then you have the right to full time employment with the same conditions. Now you see plenty of people getting let go at 4 years, just to be on the safe side.
- positr0n 4y agoSurely after 4 years you'd know if they were worth it and convert to an employee if that was your only concern.
- csa 4y ago> Surely after 4 years you'd know if they were worth it and convert to an employee I think in many/most cases, the goal is not to have an additional permanent employee. Most large, reputable companies completely gutted their hiring numbers for permanent positions after the 1989 crash. They still needed warm bodies to do stuff, so this “dispatch” system became much more common. An unfortunate side effect of the growth of the dispatch system is that young people rightfully feel much less secure in their long term employment, so they ended up delaying or never making long-term commitments like marriage and having kids. Imho, the growth of the “dispatch” system has been one of the leading reasons that Japan had the “lost decade” that seems to be working on its fourth decade. The federal government and the large corporations of Japan really dropped the ball on this, and they need to look in the mirror when they wonder out loud about the current societal and economic malaise.
- 4y ago
- ChoGGi 4y agoLast I heard they're skipping e3 this year (along with MS and Sony).
- weberer 4y agoThey've been doing that for many years now and hosting Nintendo Directs instead.
- chongli 4y agoWhat's off with Nintendo is that they're getting old. Unlike US software companies with high turnover, a lot of Nintendo people are lifers (Japanese business culture). Nintendo's well-known for taking risks with gameplay (Mario, Metroid, and Zelda were all new genres). But, as people get older, they get more conservative. The company is very heavily invested in their franchises and they seem to be taking a lot fewer risks in terms of gameplay innovation and new IP.
- nly 4y agoAll countries devs are poorly paid compared to their US counterparts.
- majani 4y agoIt makes sense for other countries since they don't have global giants to pay absurd amounts. But Japan has it's fair share of these global entities, their salaries in theory should be competing with those of the US. Maybe it's the language barrier that gives their companies some leverage in negotiations?
- cdavid 4y agoDepends on the company. Nintendo pays much better than pretty much every game company in Japan. In the last 5-10 years, the gap between Japan and west europe for top tier companies salaries has decreased a lot: you can now get 100k $ or more. We'll see how long the 500k + total comp in the US will continue for top tier. My prediction is that this will decrease a lot in the next 5 to 10 years.