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Binance to suspend US dollar bank transfers
- warning26 4y agoWonder if/when this will happen to Coinbase.
- Aaronstotle 4y agoWhy would this happen to Coinbase?
- warning26 4y agoWhy not? Coinbase isn't necessarily immune to a similar liquidity crisis as other crypto exchanges.
- VHRanger 4y agoIts not a liquidity issue so much as a banking relationship issue
- Aaronstotle 4y agoCoinbase is a public company and heavily regulated, I don't see them suspending USD bank transfers out of the blue. Binance has always been a shady exchange, so this isn't a very surprising move.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- qbasic_forever 4y agoHow soon we forget companies like Robinhood that trade on the real dollar stock market did precisely that--disabled bank transfers, put in strict limits, etc.--during the GameStop/wallstreetbets fiasco a few years ago and they got away without any warnings, harm or investigation.
- tedunangst 4y agoHow quickly we just make up stuff that never happened.
- qbasic_forever 4y agohttps://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/robinhood-interactive-brokers-restrict-trading-in-gamestop-s.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/28/robinhood-interactive-broker...
- tedunangst 4y agoQuote the part about them disabling bank transfers.
- birracerveza 4y agoHow quickly we reply with "How quickly we just make up stuff that never happened." despite the thing having actually happened.
- chollida1 4y agoI don't think its true that > > How soon we forget companies like Robinhood that trade on the real dollar stock market did precisely that--disabled bank transfers Did Robinhood actually disable bank transfers? I don't recall that happening
- chollida1 4y ago> How soon we forget companies like Robinhood that trade on the real dollar stock market did precisely that--disabled bank transfers, Can you cite a source for this claim. I'm not certain you are correct here.
- __derek__ 4y agoThe 2008 financial crisis centered on public companies that were nominally heavily regulated. As long as Coinbase's liquidity depends on a synthetic safe asset rather than actual insured deposits, it's perfectly capable of having its own Lehman or Bear or Merrill moment.
- wmf 4y agoBinance has a legality crisis and Coinbase doesn't.
- time_to_smile 4y agoBecause the entire crypto ecosystem exists to defraud its users and eventually that fraud catches up to you? I'm still shocked that I hear non-tech people claiming they should put their extra cash into crypto. I guess there's still suckers out there to extract money from. I know this comment will likely be downvoted/flagged by someone who still has some money to make from this con, but there hasn't been a coherent justification of the current crypto ecosystem is years. All of the early hopes have been repeatedly demonstrated not to pan out in reality and all that's left is grift.
- warning26 4y agoHN protip: never say "I know this comment will likely be downvoted/flagged" because it's a self-fulfilling prophesy.
- etchalon 4y agoI'd bet not. Whatever their problems, Coinbase seems to be run "well" and in compliance with US regulations.
- Haga 4y ago[dead]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- colesantiago 4y agoThis is great, we just need more of these shadow banking crypto exchanges to implode and for the entire crypto industry to disappear. There really and objectively is no reason for cryptocurrencies to exist at all.
- washedup 4y agoMillions of people in nations with severe currency and asset issues (inflation, access, or otherwise, often in third world countries) disagree. But yes, I am glad to see these shady institutions taken down. Only once they are gone, and SEC puts proper regulations in place, the industry will likely thrive.
- colesantiago 4y agoNo. We don't need crypto to thrive at all. We already have Pix (Brazil), UPI (India), M-Pesa (Africa) and now the US is beginning to roll out FedNow in the US. The legitimate and regulated solutions are already being built and have been proven as it has been in India at scale to the tune of hundreds of millions of users. Crypto or blockchain cannot and can never scale at all.
- idiotsecant 4y agoWe don't need crypto if we're OK with permissioned currency systems being the only ones that are allowed to exist. I'm not sure I'm OK with that.
- rmbyrro 4y agoPix is 100% controlled by the Brazilian government, which does not have a trustworthy track record in taking care of its citizens' money. Buy they do apologize... 30 years later [1]. [1] https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/brazil/politics-brazil/former-brazilian-president-collor-apologizes-for-seizing-savings-30-years-later/ https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/brazil/politics-b...
- 4y ago
- patrickaljord 4y agoOnly SWIFT USD transfers are suspended. ACH are still allowed which is what most US users use and Euro SEPA are still ok which what all of EU uses. Other countries uses their own currencies. So this only affects a small portion of 0.01% of their userbase.
- lazide 4y agoSo no wires? Anyone moving significant money (> $50-100k) is almost certainly going to want to use a wire.
- Scoundreller 4y ago0.01% of user base != 0.01% of withdrawal volume.
- lazide 4y agoGood point. Also != balance or percent of assets. My guess is wires in USD are very highly correlated with high percentage of total held assets accounts (aka whales).
- gruez 4y agoIs there a reason why wires (presumably SWIFT transfers) would be preferable to ACH?
- runeks 4y agoThey’re international
- lxgr 4y agoDepending on how you look at it, either both wire transfers and ACH, or neither are international. Both are transactions between US financial institutions, but can be used as the first or last leg of an international transfer (SWIFT or otherwise) through correspondent banking.
- humanizersequel 4y agoAlways been a bit perplexed by the anti-blockchain attitude here. One would think that the "hacker" in "hacker news" would imply a certain affiliation with (or at least respect for) Cypherpunk ideals. Maybe I'm letting the aesthetics of this place get to me though, it is literally a venture capital messageboard...
- warning26 4y agoI think it's because most blockchain articles are just pushing weird scammy stuff. From a technical perspective the blockchain is an interesting concept, and I'd love to see some articles about things that aren't just scams, but there just hasn't been much of that.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- r00fus 4y agoI mean, aside from fraud, money laundering, scams, and bribery ... what has blockchain done for us?
- hef19898 4y agoCircumvention of sanctions and paying of ransomware hackers. Admittedly, those two have a significant overlap with your list.
- unity1001 4y agoThe early web was precisely like this - from scam sites that were for stealing your cc to criminal sites that openly sold illegal stuff. Beyond that, user generated content in the community forums and sites on the fringes of the internet were seen as 'littering' the Internet and a waste of space because they weren't generating any economic value, hence they did not have any 'use case'. Then everything suddenly changed when a few large-scale use cases appeared. User-generated content now drives the Internet. Those small sites, shops, forums evolved into giant outlets, businesses, communities. Same with the blockchain - we do see that we can do stuff with it. We do see that it gives the technical capabilities to do more stuff. But the actual use cases are scarce and small, mostly due to the technical infrastructure not being able to support large scale activity and the crypto space and apps still not being user-friendly enough to allow the public to use anything at large. Precisely the situation with the early web in which only those who knew could get to the forums on the fringes of the internet and use them for anything while the non-technical users were left to use the corporate sites that they would find in the 'portals' that fired up when they clicked on 'the Internet' (IE, Firefox etc - the browser icon was 'the internet'). When the infrastructure improves and/or someone finds an easy to use use case with large scale appeal, everything will turn around in a second.
- busyant 4y agoCan someone explain what this might mean? I'm not plugged in enough to crypto to get the apparent implication(s). Is this "Binance gets its comeuppance from catalyzing FTX's downfall?" Is this "no big deal/a triviality" as is implied in the article? Perhaps something else?
- unyttigfjelltol 4y agoIt is a comforting-sounding way to prohibit large USD withdrawals. In almost any other context, e.g., bonds, bank accounts, currencies, the next step would be devaluation, crisis, and default.
- busyant 4y agoThank you.
- latortuga 4y agoDisclaimer I have no crypto or finance expertise. "We're suspending withdrawals" reads to me as "we don't have money to cover withdrawals" which implies they don't have enough liquidity or are insolvent.
- dgivney 4y agoIt means Binance is running low on USD reserves and is buying more by preventing large USD outflows while continuing to allow USD inflows. It's worth noting that Binance operates BUSD, a stable coin pegged to USD which according to their website saw a 25% reduction in net asset reserves between Nov 2022 to Dec 2022 (https://www.binance.com/en/busd https://www.binance.com/en/busd) - if that trend has continued that may be why they need a short-term supply of USD.
- red-iron-pine 4y agoPut simply: it's bad. Maybe a mild bad, but still bad. Or rather: this isn't something very confident, growth-trending orgs do.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- password11 4y ago> "In the interim, all other methods of buying and selling crypto remain unaffected, including bank transfer using one of the other fiat currencies supported by Binance (including euros), buying and selling crypto via credit card, debit card, Google Pay and Apple Pay and via our Binance P2P marketplace," the spokesperson added. Title is misleading given primacy of USD. They're not freezing all outgoing transfers to fiat currency, just to US banks in USD. Apparently you can still cash out.
- jbverschoor 4y agoSeems logical that it might have something to do with a potential freeze/order related to FTX?
- voytec 4y agoI don't seem to be able to close the account with Binance. They received multiple GDPR-related requests, forced me to give them more PII than they already had (like handwritten and signed requests) and now their DPO team responses arrive about a month after my emails. I'm in Poland. All Polish banks refuse USD/EUR wires or reverse card charges/payments from Binance. The only way to cash out from Binance to Poland, was a Russian service which was receiving crypto from Binance and making wire transfers to Poland. After Putin's Ukraine invasion, I closed the account with the Russian entity and since there was no longer a way to get fiat from Binance - I decided to close the account with them, too. It's still not closed to this day, despite multiple hoops they forced me to jump.
- tommek4077 4y ago> All Polish banks refuse USD/EUR wires or reverse card charges/payments from Binance. How is that the fault of Binance?
- totalZero 4y agoHow is it not? Their relationship with banks is a direct result of their willingness to demonstrate regulatory compliance, and that appears not to have been a priority for Binance until just a few days ago. https://www.binance.com/en/blog/ecosystem/binance-moves-forward-with-local-development-and-regulatory-compliance-in-poland-1233996135851733478 https://www.binance.com/en/blog/ecosystem/binance-moves-forw...
- rchaud 4y agoWhen offering financial services in a country, it behooves the vendor to set up a relationship with a local bank. Any legitimate money services business will do this, because otherwise they wouldn't get a single customer. Crypto exchanges don't seem to have this issue because they know their customers are trying to dodge taxes anyway, so they can claim that obstacles to off-ramping to fiat (like having no banks to work with) are a feature.
- Waterluvian 4y agoI don’t fully get it so I’ll throw this out there and someone will inevitably correct me: My understanding is that the happy path doesn’t typically involve US dollar transfers, but it exists as a “see, you can check out any time you’d like.” Bringing up “0.01%” seems like a deception. Almost nobody withdraws <large amount> from their bank in a given week. But imagine if banks said tomorrow that you can’t do that anymore, but don’t worry because almost nobody does it anyways.
- lazide 4y agoThat typically causes bank runs, because enough people see through it. Notably, that's why the FDIC exists. Also notably, there is no crypto (or Tether) FDIC.
- tialaramex 4y agoFDIC tops out at $250 000 per bank (depending on exactly what you've got and in which accounts you might get to claim this limit more than once though). This is similar to schemes in the UK or the EU. They're protecting smaller individual savers etc. not corporations, not rich people. People who will be hurting the day after the bank fails, not a week later or a month later and so need money ASAP. But that doesn't mean rich people need to be scared of a run on a conventional bank. Suppose you've got 10M in Big Bank, and it fails. FDIC will hand you $250 000, but your $9.75M doesn't vanish, it's just that you need to wait for administrators to take the bank to pieces, figure out what it owned and sell it for a good price, then they'll pay you some fraction - often 100% - of your $9.75M depending on what they recovered. Eventually. Landsbanki (in Iceland) for example failed in the aftermath of the global financial crisis, it's own government couldn't afford to pay to fix this because Iceland's banks had become larger than Iceland's own economy (oops), and the Icelandic people refused to allow their government to legislate to pay the money back over time, but eventually the bank's liquidators sold enough of the assets Landsbanki had owned for enough money to pay creditors like the UK government the billions of dollars owed. Took almost ten years. The thing that's a concern for a crypto institution is: Are there real assets? Even for a failed investment bank, where assets are sometimes more dubious in reality when administrators try to sell them than they seemed on paper (e.g. a NINJA house loan) those are assets, they do have value. If you default on your mortgage the bank takes the house. The mortgage "failed" but it doesn't magically have zero value. On a $1.5M mortgage is that house worth $1.5M? Probably not. But it's also not worth $0. Whereas there's a good chance many crypto outfits own few real assets and so there is nothing for administrators to sell, it just evaporates.
- Culleredo 4y ago[dead]
- alexambarch 4y agoFrom looking around the internet I am starting to believe I might be the only person holding crypto strictly because I just happen to think it's neat. I think it's interesting that via Ethereum, I can spend Ether to perform distributed computations on nodes across the globe and that this also serves as a store of value. I find Iota's Tangle interesting as an application of a DAG for financial and data transactions. I think it's interesting that I can send Nano to someone instantly and without any gas fees while still using blockchains. It would be nice if this technology was given a larger purpose, but I think any possibility of that quickly went out the window once someone realized they could get rich. I understand and agree with a lot of the hate crypto gets and a significant amount of the use cases are nothing more than pipe dreams (or just outright scams,) but from a theory perspective I can't help but think it's at least a little bit fascinating to see people try to apply data structures this way.
- acchow 4y ago100% agree. I was a big believer in the usefulness of crypto before all the "HODL" and "investment" mentality took over. Its value as a currency is eroded with the dramatic price fluctuations.
- HN_is_for_gemes 4y ago[dead]
- calvinmorrison 4y agoWell yeah, the US government couldn't stand having an actual currency to compete with so they relabeled all of crypto as investements. Suddenly all of those rules, tax implications, etc are more important than the tech itself.
- red-iron-pine 4y agoWe just watched FTX implode and fleece thousands of people, including many of their own investors. Plenty of other exchanges and currencies tanking hard the last few months, too. These regulations exist for a reason, and it's why actual investments work. If you think they're a bad idea then I have a bridge in the Bahamas to sell you...
- m00dy 4y agoI feel like something is cooking...
- skc 4y agoBinance has this very uncanny ability to plausibly explain their way out of any hint of red flags. And they are still here. It's pretty remarkable.
- HN_is_for_gemes 4y ago[dead]
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y agoWhen they finally go down all the red flags will be crystal clear in retrospect.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- fuzzylightbulb 4y ago"You know, it's funny; when you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags." - Wanda the Owl, BoJack Horseman
- red-iron-pine 4y agoOr from an even earlier poster / TV show -- "I Want To Believe"
- ilyt 4y agoBut red just looks like red in those glasses
- vinay427 4y agoYes, just as white or many non-red flags would. The idea is that other flags are indiscernible from red flags because everything is rose-tinted, and more amusingly the playful combining of two common English expressions.
- garbagecoder 4y agoCrypto and Rust threads: guaranteed replies.
- reef84_ 4y agoWrite a blog post about Russian crypto company powered by GPT-3 and rust laying off 20% of their workforce.
- MangezBien 4y ago"CryptoKremlin announces Layoffs of 20% of Workforce" by ChatGPT CryptoKremlin, a leading Russian crypto company powered by OpenAI's GPT-3, has announced plans to lay off 20% of its workforce due to challenging market conditions and a need to restructure. The CEO acknowledged the difficult decision but emphasized its importance for the company's long-term sustainability and success. CryptoKremlin was known for leveraging Rust programming language to attract top talent and build superior systems. The company's utilization of Rust, known for its performance and security features, allowed them to create highly reliable and secure solutions. This focus on engineering excellence with Rust technology was a key factor in the company's success and helped set it apart from the competition. The crypto industry has faced challenges during the pandemic, but CryptoKremlin had managed to perform well, largely due to its investment in GPT-3 technology. The model has revolutionized the natural language processing space, allowing the company to build highly scalable and secure solutions. The crypto community was disappointed by the layoffs, but CryptoKremlin remains optimistic and confident in its ability to drive innovation and growth in the space. The restructure is expected to position the company for continued success in the years to come.
- red-iron-pine 4y agoAnd making the other 80% work hybrid while expanding the DEI offices.
- meindnoch 4y agoThis is the end... duh duh duuuuh beautiful friend...
- woeirua 4y agoDefinitely a very normal occurrence for a large, credible, financial institution. Nothing to see here.
- red-iron-pine 4y agoMy OSHA consultant once said: "most regulations are written in blood". I suspect we're about to see what that looks like w/r/t crypto and finance.
- luxuryballs 4y agoIt’s funny how every so many years there’s a crypto bubble and then a subsequent “crypto is failed/dead” sentiment and now we see big exchanges failing and other failures of integration into more traditional systems. What people see as a failure I see as a success. The more bitcoin continues to function and the more attempts to wrangle and centralize it that fail, the more it proves itself as something that can stand alone, explicitly without some institution taking it over and managing it. The fact that it persists despite the market swings and frustrated attempts to leech onto it by profit-seeking platforms is a really good sign in my view. The true test may be if it can withstand attempts to regulate it, even though that’s one of the biggest fears in crypto! My opinion is that if they can’t succeed at regulating or even banning it then that makes it even more viable as a decentralized currency system.
- chatterhead 4y ago[dead]
- ineedasername 4y agoI can't find any explanation about why they are suspending transfers. Anyone else have more luck on that?
- plsbenice34 4y agoSince this doesn't include US users, who would be on binance.us instead, and is only temporary, it's not very interesting from my perspective. From the headline I assumed it would include binance.us.
- LauraWilliams36 4y ago[dead]