11 ms·

“tipflation” and “tip creep” are sparking a backlash

70 points by lxm 4y ago

paulpauper 4y ago
Yeah, I remember when 10-15% was customary. now I am seeing tipping options as high as 40%. The argument you hear is that wages are low and that tipping is a way to offset this. This is effectively a tax/inflation on consumers for companies not paying high enough wages. The tipping policy is set by management. The employee is not demanding the money.
- swatcoder 4y ago
  Looked at less cynically, it’s also just lingering generosity from a challenging shared experience. Many people, including myself, who experienced the luxury of secure remote work during the pandemic felt especially appreciative of the people who found themselves in more marginal or high-risk situations. When I was given the opportunity, I was happy to share that appreciation through larger tips. Now I’m just used to it. So are a lot of others.
  - whatshisface 4y ago
    >When I was given the opportunity You know that you can tip as much as you want right? That's why it's called a tip. It's not billing.
    - SeanAnderson 4y ago
      You are not allowed to tip as much as you want in all scenarios. GrubHub currently disallows tipping >350% of the order, but, if memory serves, it used to be lower. Not saying it's wrong - it probably prevents fraud. But still :)
    - matthew-wegner 4y ago
      This isn't quite true, unless you bring various bill sizes to go along with a credit/debit transaction. And even then, it can be jarring for some of the situations mentioned in a negative context here (versus baked into the payment steps).
    - swatcoder 4y ago
      Opportunity as in “where tips are welcome”
    - snotrockets 4y ago
      For historical reasons (not wanting to pay for non white labour) in the US, it is customary by businesses to pay service personal minuscule wages, and shift the responsibility for their wages into the customer. As such, not tipping in the US is utilizing uncompensated labor, which is highly immoral. Until the current system is dismantled, you can either tip, or not participate in it. But not tipping and enjoying free labor is abhorrent.
      - whatshisface 4y ago
        This is in the context of tipping more.
  - antisthenes 4y ago
    Higher prices and friction in the experience will just drive people to eat out less. So you may have higher tip %'s, but if people on average eat out only half as often, the service staff still receives less tips in aggregate. Frankly, the best way to address this is overall improvement of the safety net in the US, starting with single payer health care. Tips are a small shim-fix at best, and realistically a wedge between the service staff and their customers.
    - swatcoder 4y ago
      Sure, but when I feel warmly for the person who just helped me out, I’m not usually weighing the optimal strategies of civic development. I’m just sharing what I have to spare.
  - raverbashing 4y ago
    I'll demonstrate "lingering generosity" spontaneously But begging me for it is crossing a line
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  If I saw a 40% tip even as an option I would leave zero. It's completely ridiculous.
  - justin66 4y ago
    Thirty or forty percent is a built-in menu option on many point of sale systems - they'll often give you four different options. The only point you'd be making by choosing zero out of pique is "bcrosby95 is an asshole."
    - seneca 4y ago
      > The only point you'd be making by choosing zero out of pique is "bcrosby95 is an asshole." Please don't make comments containing personal attacks here. It degrades the community.
    - tass 4y ago
      Who configured it to show the option?
      - justin66 4y ago
        Certainly not the person who is likely to be negatively affected (i.e. your waiter, barrista, etc.) if you do not tip.
        tass 4y ago
        I’m attempting to make the point that the POS vendors aren’t just showing these high numbers, but the owner or someone close to them is making the options appear. (i.e., it’s not really “built in” as to be permanent) That barista or waiter could even tell the owner that they’re not comfortable asking for 40%, or that they are getting more $0 tips since the option appeared, or that customers complained it’s a bit rich.
        deleted 4y ago
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taurath 4y ago
Wondering whether an experiment where a restaurant charges a flat amount, no tip, no taxes would do well right now. It feels impossible to leave the house even alone without spending $40 on even the smallest meal that isn't fast food. I went to IHOP and got an omelette, hash browns and toast (extra $5) in a city recently, and with a 20% tip it came to $29 for just that meal - $17 + 5 + $2 tax + $5 tip. The food cost can't have been more than $4. Its getting way out of hand, and yes minimum wage is getting higher but thats not a sufficient reason. Have noticed this isn't nearly a problem in cities with lower real estate costs. You can still get a $12 diner meal in chicago for instance.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Have noticed this isn’t nearly a problem in cities with lower real estate costs. Well, yes, at any business you buy from, you are paying for all of their inputs, including any real estate they need, and, in addition, their costs reflect their suppliers (including employees, who need a place to live) costs, including real estate costs. So, yes, ceteris paribus, local real estate prices are going to have a major impact on prices, especially where inputs need to be locally sourced (including industries that rely on substantial on-site labor.)
  - taurath 4y ago
    I was drawing that comparison because often pricing is blamed on minimum wage primarily and exclusively especially as business owners lobby against wage increases, while saying nothing about real estate costs. Wages become a bogeyman and only the business interests (including the real estate business) get addressed
- listenallyall 4y ago
  IHOP's pricing has exploded recently. Yes all of their omelettes are in the $14+ range. You didn't order a soda (Pepsi, uggh) which would have been $4 more. They aren't the only ones but, there seems to be a huge disconnect between what they charge and what you get, and it's evidenced by the restaurants often having a whole section or half entirely closed off and empty. IHOP does offer a "hoppy hour menu" but they even upped the price on that significantly from when they originally rolled it out.
jmclnx 4y ago
And I wonder how many business are taking a cut of the tip. I remember hearing this was common process in the past.
- dijit 4y ago
  if you leave tips via card machines it is extremely common in most countries that; A) those tips are pooled (thus the management is taking a cut) B) those tips are taxed. Therefore at least in most of Europe its better to drop some cash. if you are tipping. Not sure if it is the same in the US. EDIT: did I say something wrong or controversial?
  - Tool_of_Society 4y ago
    Cash is better for that reason in the USA.
  - deathanatos 4y ago
    (IANAL.) You're missing their point. The person above you is referring to the practice (and I've read about this any number of times in these discussions) that the business pockets the tip: the person you are tipping, effectively and in some circumstances, never receives it. This derives from the usual definition of their wage: > A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. (US Dept. of Labor: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips) Say, within an hour, I receive a meal. I decide to choose between tipping $0 or $4; the result of which is: I tip $0: The business pays $7.25 for the hour of work; the employee gains $7.25 I tip $4: The business pays $3.25 for the hour of work; the employee gains $7.25 So what was the point? That's not a tip, that's a business subsidy. That tips are taxed … yeah? so? The Man gets his cut, always.
  - efraim 4y ago
ghostpepper 4y ago
Food delivery apps like Uber Eats are another one. They add up to 50% (or more) to the price of a meal for things like delivery fee, bag fee, service fee, priority delivery fee etc. and then prompt you to tip 20% of the total.
- earthling8118 4y ago
  Doordash will increase the base cost of items in addition to the extra fees
  - bluefirebrand 4y ago
    Skip does this too. Actual menu price 10.99 Skip menu price 11.99 Plus delivery fee, driver tip, etc.
  - Karunamon 4y ago
    This is entirely up to the restaurant; likely to recoup some of the fees they are getting charged. I can pull open a local store right now and verify that the prices on the Doordash menu and the prices on the wall in the building are the same. … But that restaurant isn't on dashpass and has a delivery fee. So there is definitely some incentivizing of rolling the platform fees into your base prices.
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      I think this really is one of the cheats that these delivery companies run. They also take cut from the food and this is invisible for the customer. It would be nice if they broke down the price. X for restaurant for the food, Y for delivery, Z for processing fees. And then n% cut from total to the middle man. But that might direct the consumers straight to restaurants, so no one will do that.
      - Karunamon 4y ago
        Most of these restaurants would not have delivery at all without companies like this. Source: decades of history before delivery apps were a thing.
bakugo 4y ago
If the tip is a mandatory % that is charged directly by the business and not an amount you willingly decide to give, it's not actually a tip. I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for americans.
- mikebenfield 4y ago
  Most of us understand this perfectly well. But there’s not a lot we can do about it.
  - jbirer 4y ago
    There's a lot you can do. Change restaurant, cook at home, demand to know beforehand etc.
    - bagels 4y ago
      I can cook at home for a decade, but that isn't going to change how tipping works.
- hacym 4y ago
  It’s not mandatory. Culturally, though, it’s expected so people raise a stink about it if you don’t do it. What gets me is people/businesses that say “if you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to eat out”. No. If you can’t afford to pay your workers a livable wage without tips, you can’t afford to stay in business.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Banning tipping is not for you, as the customer, it's for the worker. If tips were banned, they'd just be part of the price and you'd still be paying it. When you refuse to tip, it's just free riding.
    - hacym 4y ago
      No, really? I’d gladly pay 10%-15% more to get eliminate tipping. Tipping sucks for consumers, sucks for employees, and is rooted in the worst parts of our history.
mariambarouma 4y ago
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pyrolistical 4y ago
Just pick 0% as protest. Is it or is it not optional? If it is not optional then increase the price
- snotrockets 4y ago
  That would be using uncompensated labor, as in the US, the burden of paying service personal was shifted to the customers. A protest would be not to buy from business that don’t pay their employees directly.
shostack 4y ago
I wonder if lower end QSR and fast service concept restaurants will be hit the hardest. Upscale places that were already expensive have less price sensitive customers. But try to shove more tips on top of an underwhelming $20 sandwich that has increasingly poor ingredients and less and less protein? Yeah, not gonna fly with price sensitive customers.
bradleyjg 4y ago
Just tell us the fucking price. No fees. No tips. No taxes. No special assessments. I don’t care about your costs. There’s a reason Americans hate buying cars and those that sell them.
- closeparen 4y ago
  The only thing Americans hate more than car dealers is the image of themselves as the sort of suckers who would ever pay a sticker price. You might go so far as to say Americans don't really buy cars; they buy the feeling of having gotten good deals on their cars.
  - ianlevesque 4y ago
    What? I’ve yet to meet an American younger than my grandfather who haggles at all on anything.
    - californical 4y ago
      Interesting, almost everyone that I talk to will negotiate on a car. I’m also the kind of person to negotiate on lots of other things too. You can definitely save money on random things if you ask. Subscriptions for phone/tv/internet, electronics, furniture. Maybe not at ikea, but at a more local showroom Bought a bike on Craigslist for less, too. In fact, as far as I know, everyone prices things on Craigslist higher than they actually think the thing as worth. Because they know the buyer will offer them less than they post. I’m a young millennial.
      - andrewflnr 4y ago
        Craigslist is a special case. Big ticket items like cars are very, very special cases. Neither of them indicate anything about Americans' appetite for haggling in general. Personally I'd rather not.
        pessimizer 4y ago
jasonhansel 4y ago
It is worth noting that, while the minimum wage is lower for tipped employees, their total pay still has to be above the ordinary (non-tipped) minimum wage. To quote https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips > An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
- readams 4y ago
  In California there is no tipped minimum. You have to be paid the normal minimum and then tips on top.
- justin66 4y ago
  I wonder if you believe "the employer makes up the difference" is a thing that actually happens just because it's suggested in a Department of Labor rule. In the US, employers often feel entitled to keep the money that people put in the tip jar, blatant theft, which ought to help you gauge matters here. https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/02/10/tip-thievery-codified/321478002/ https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/02/...
- Tool_of_Society 4y ago
  Simple solution for the employer is to report to the IRS the employee making enough tips to put them over minimum wage. It doesn't matter if the employee even made those tips. Employees can complain to regulatory groups but it won't get anywhere as the employer will just say the employee is lying to save on taxes.
ponector 4y ago
I like how it is done in France: service is included in price everywhere. Why this could not be done in US? Another point is tips distribution: there are many people involved in serving your meal. Does cook get tips? Does dishwasher? Does cleaning lady?
- snotrockets 4y ago
  Tips were created so that non white service personal could be employed but not paid wages to, as former slave owners found the concept of directly paying for labor abhorrent. They have integrated the idea of tips as the “American way” (just as much as police brutality or easy access to firearm) and it is now extremely hard to disintegrate. France had the luxury of having it colonies an ocean away, hence less resilience to a safety net back home, as it wouldn’t protect “undesirable”. Of course, now that they have crossed the ocean, that safety net is being slowly dismantled.
  - dijit 4y ago
    A lot of loaded comments in this and with the risk of sounding combative or ignorant: citations?
    - snotrockets 4y ago
      Tipping as a way to avoid paying non whites: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fac... and basically all over research and the internet. On difference between US and European racism, and the role of the distance from the colonies: https://knowledge.insead.edu/responsibility/recognising-and-confronting-racism-europe https://knowledge.insead.edu/responsibility/recognising-and-... and a large body of research. On dismantling of the safety net in France: just read a newspaper.
  - dboreham 4y ago
    Confirms the theory that: "everything weird in the USA will turn out to be to do with slavery".
psadri 4y ago
The problem is that wages are basically not covering the cost of living (primarily housing). That money has to come from somewhere one way or another (or you will see stores closing, completely understaffed etc). The situation where some people make $300k/year, live in an area with $2m median price homes and expect to pay service fees for an area where homes are $100k simply can’t last.
SeanAnderson 4y ago
One thing I don't see talked about enough is the perception that reporting tips is optional. Governments know people underreport tips and still want their fair cut. A previous roommate of mine worked as a server where he was required to say he was getting at least 8% in tips on every order because it looks suspicious if that doesn't occur. So, in scenarios where a customer opts not to tip, it was actually costing money. If the expected value of tipping continues to rise then I have to assume these expectations will also rise which is only going to spite those receiving tips even further. I know my experience here is anecdotal. I'm curious if others in the industry have been given similar ultimatums from their places of employment.
- Tool_of_Society 4y ago
  Yes it's generally assumed that you're making at least a percentage of the sale as a tip. Most of the bigger employers automatically report your CC tips and an assumed percentage of cash tips. "unusually" low tips reported could result in the IRS taking a look at you. Some time ago I remember working a job where it didn't matter if you only made 5% tips over all they still reported to the IRS that you made 15%. You will see this often in areas where the hourly pay is below minimum wage. The employer will state you made up the difference in tips thus they are allowed to pay you less than minimum wage.
- Atheros 4y ago
  > in scenarios where a customer opts not to tip, it was actually costing money. More accurately, where a customer opts not to tip, the server isn't able to commit as much tax fraud.
  - LightHugger 4y ago
    More accurately, the employer is able to pay the employee further below minimum wage.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
mensetmanusman 4y ago
I can’t wait until I see a tip prompt at my bank teller.
kossTKR 4y ago
Just came back from the US and is thoroughly confused! How is the percentage ratio fair as a system, doesn't it make the product price define what the servers are getting? First day i bought two lobster rolls from a street food vendor that was pretty expensive ($80, yup it was NY) and put 20% on top as a tip not really thinking - that's a whole lot of money for 2 seconds of service, pretty bizarre to me coming from Scandinavia. Later that day i bought a complete meal that was very cheap from another vendor, he used a lot of time to talk to me and make the food but it was only $10, so tipping 20% gave him a pretty small amount. If anything tipping should be relative to "time spent" for the server no? That said better wages - besides just compensating workers fairly - would also save everyone from constant awkwardness / social posturing and general inconvencies that made service experiences a constant tiring negotiation no?
- asah 4y ago
  You're not required to tip 20% and since nobody sees what you tip, you can tip them both $10 if you want.
  - dboreham 4y ago
    > since nobody sees what you tip Eh, what? Of course they see.
- Y_Y 4y ago
  How about not spending eighty dollars on street food?
- timr 4y ago
  $40 for a lobster roll is the starting point for the rip off. That's insane. I just looked up the price of a Luke's Lobster lobster roll in NYC: $23-35 (not sure how/why the price varies). That's for a chain restaurant with a substantial real estate overhead, in a not-cheap city. I've started noticing that food truck prices are becoming ridiculous, in general. They used to be cheap alternatives to restaurants, but no longer.
- vehementi 4y ago
ecommerceguy 4y ago
Customer facing displays for signature capture are driving this, not inflation. It more of a why not, cant hurt approach to accepting payments. It's affected me to the point where I pay mostly in cash. I believe Square was the entity that foisted this mess on us the most. They were an early adopter of CFDs with an added tip.
resuresu 4y ago
Tipping is just a way cheap business owners float the cost of wages to the customer.
darth_avocado 4y ago
I am okay with tips for a good service. I am not okay with > expectation of 20% as the bare minimum > tips when I did all the work, like when I picked up a prepackaged meal from a fridge and brought it to the counter or a “restaurant” where you order at the counter, pick up your meal and clean up after yourself when you’re done > tips when no service was involved like a pet store (what?) > tips for non tip employees like plumbers and electricians when you quoted me $100-$200 per hour > Delivery apps when you already paid delivery fee, service fee and a local flat drivers benefits fee > A barista
- unsupp0rted 4y ago
  I am not okay with tips for good service! Until we all stop being okay with tips for good service, we'll continue having to be annoyed, everywhere we buy, every time, even people who themselves work in the service industry.
  - darth_avocado 4y ago
    That’s not true. Outside of the US, pretty much everywhere people are okay with tips with good service. The problem starts when people start expecting them.
    - unsupp0rted 4y ago
      > Outside of the US, pretty much everywhere people are okay with tips with good service That's not true :) In Korea, I've literally had people chase me down the street after I left to return a couple extra dollars worth of tips I'd "forgotten on the table". This is changing as American influence and tipping culture eats the world, but there's certainly large parts of the world where the price is the price and there's nothing more to it.
rossdavidh 4y ago
I have never, not once, in real-life conversation, heard anyone complaining about tipping. The cost of health care and health insurance, yes, the price of cars and the lack of negotiating leverage when there is a shortage, yes, the price of housing and rent, yes, but not one time have I heard people complaining about tipping. People who like ranting online may enjoy complaining about that portion of the workforce who gets tips, but for most people, that is quite literally the least of the inflationary problems.
- prepend 4y ago
  Your experience is not like mine. I’ve heard it hundreds of times. More if you count the reservoir dogs mr pink-style rant on tipping in general.
- hacym 4y ago
  “I don’t personally hear anyone talk about it so it’s not an issue” Seems a little self-centered.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Haven't heard many more bizarre claims than complaining about tipping customs being some newfangled internet thing.
- muser8 4y ago
  Heh, even my kid complains about it. Your situation must be unique vs those in my circle.
- trog 4y ago
  You clearly have not met any Australians
pearjuice 4y ago
As someone who doesn't step foot in America much, I honestly cannot comprehend the "tipping culture". It's expected and almost mandatory as it's an integral part of workers pay but not absolutely mandatory or legally enforced. So any "rules" or customs are on a "you should know" basis. I've seen many receipts with an empty "tip amount" line above the total. Is there no consumer movement or workers organization whatsoever lobbying to just have the tip incorporated in the salary and purchase price?
- dboreham 4y ago
  Workers make more money from tips, so they're not going to protest.
- Tool_of_Society 4y ago
  Yes but they get crushed by the owners in the various industries. THe money/power these companies wield dwarf anything the employees could bring to bear. Unions would help this issue but they've been successfully slandered and destroyed over the last few decades.
ReptileMan 4y ago
Why tipping in percentage at all? The work to bring a plate to the table is the same for filet mignon and for a vegetable salad.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Was coming to this. Shouldn't some reasonable rate of pay be calculated let's say 20/h. And then estimate how much time server and staff spend serving you. And then just add that to the bill?
- ponector 4y ago
  Why server should be tipped more than cook who actually made a huge effort to prepare a meal?
JonathanMerklin 4y ago
The system is bad, no doubt, but I personally have spent almost a decade living and interacting with reality with a hard fast personal rule that every numeric value I see fronted by a "$" is only 2/3 of the actual price, and adjust my purchase habits accordingly. It's not a hard conversion to make, and the amount of times it's an underestimation are greatly eclipsed by the number of times that it's spot on or even wrong enough to be a "good deal". Life's too short to be a pessimist all the time, but in certain contexts it helps to live by the adage that if you expect the worst, you'll rarely be disappointed.
- Atheros 4y ago
  If enough people have this attitude then the system collapses. Because if everyone tolerates the advertised price being 66% of actual then they'll tolerate 65% of actual. And businesses can make 1% more money by doing that. Which is a race to the bottom where advertised prices become completely disconnected from actual price and become of no value at all. You've just given up and are letting other people fight the fights for you.
  - JonathanMerklin 4y ago
    What fight do you recommend I take? The way I see it, if I balk at additional fees, taxes, and tips, there is a relatively high risk that I don't even receive the product or service - which is no different than my current strategy of, loosely, "spending within my means plus a 50% buffer", with the added detriment of wasted time and effort on the haggling process.
greatgib 4y ago
The situation is a lot better in most Europe and especially France. Service charges are already included in prices, mandatory, employees are paid a somehow correct salary, at least the legal national minimal salary. No tip is really expected. And also not needed for the employees to be able to survive. So it is a no brainer here for customers to go to restaurant or cafés. You can still tip, really as a small gesture, but it is with coins you leave on the table before leaving if you enjoyed the service. Around 0.5, 1 or 2 euros. You do that after you paid when the employee leave so lot less social pressure. The idea of the tip here is to thank the employee with something to pay a coffee or drink. Also, prices on anything (menu,...) Are already all charges and taxes included. So again, you know clearly and directly what you will pay in advance without deception.
- Overtonwindow 4y ago
  Tipping is a relic from slavery which is why Europe does not have to deal with it. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee#:~:text=It's%20a%20legacy%20of%20slavery,or%20no%20wages%20at%20all https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee....
dom96 4y ago
This is uniquely a US-style thing, but even now in the UK I am noticing more and more restaurants adding a 12.5% service charge. Definitely not a great trend.
boring_twenties 4y ago
What really gets me is the recent trend to request tips for counter-serve and takeout. Like, WTF? I really don't like the feeling of being the guy who explicitly chooses the "no tip" option, so in the end I've pretty much stopped going to these places altogether.
- jstarfish 4y ago
  It's fucked of them to even ask. This is apparently a standard feature for some new POS terminals, but the business owner has no incentive to disable it.
nitwit005 4y ago
You should always view tipping as a donation to a company instead of a person. You're helping them pay their employees less. That's why they happily ask for tips at kiosks, and want the amount raised. They'll keep pushing the amount up until legislation forces them to stop.
biznick 4y ago
If you are young reading this and working in a tipping industry, the smart way to take advantage of this situation is to work at a location that has high throughput per employee. Actually being in the a sit down restaurant at this point is not a wise decision (except maybe high end). I would look at businesses like ice-cream parlors that have long lines during busy hours and have forced tipping screens as a good starting point, and try to get hours during the busiest times (7pm-9pm after dinner). I've heard owners in this industry complain recently that employees make more than they do as the owner per hour because of tips.
karaterobot 4y ago
When we instituted the $15/hr minimum wage in Seattle, I wondered idly whether that would reduce the pressure to tip 20%+ at restaurants. It should, right? Because if the reason to tip is really to address economic inequalities in the service industry, then doubling the minimum wage should mean less tip wages are required. The tips were meant to bring the effective wage up to a certain threshold we arbitrary decided we could stop feeling so guilty about — and so was the $15 minimum. (another possibility is the 20% tipping level was arbitrary, and turned out to be too low to have been serving its intended purpose in the first place. That is very possible.) Anyway, I wondered about that, and predicted that the power of upper middle class guilt was strong enough that we'd just continue doing the same thing as always, which turned out to be more or less correct up until now. We'll see how this shakes out.
bastard_op 4y ago
I'm basically at this point being forced to tip for shit service. Who could be happier?
btgeekboy 4y ago
I just got an invoice from a company that came out yesterday and resealed all of the gaps/protrusions/etc on my roof. $475 plus tax. Little high considering the effort, but it's a tall townhome, so no way in hell I'm getting up on a ladder that high and doing it myself. I got to the checkout process and there was a tip box. Since when do you tip roofers? I didn't even interact with the guys that showed up and did the work - the appointment was planned, they came out and did it, and they left. The options on the tip box were 10, 15, and 20%. Needless to say, I set it to 0. It's getting ridiculous. I paid for a service, it was performed, and that should be that. I'm not tipping an extra $50-100 for doing your job. This wasn't even a one-man show, it was a company, so I have no idea how those tips are distributed.
dgreensp 4y ago
This just sounds like the author not liking to tip more than 20% and being concerned someone might judge them for that. There is “research” cited in the article, but not when it comes to supporting the headline, only to make other points. The fact that a professor of economics wrote an essay saying that somebody might have some negative feelings about tipping is not news. The comments here are sure to be way more thoughtful and balanced an exploration of the topic. This part tells me the author is making up controversy and is not looking at things very reasonably: > It's not only human workers who are asking for tips, but services like GoFundMe, a platform for people to fundraise for issues like emergency health costs. When people donate to a cause, the site asks for a "tip" to help it continue functioning. GoFundMe also charges a processing fee, which is deducted from the donations before the recipient receives the money; it doesn't disclose this processing fee when it asks donors to add a tip. From what I can tell, the processing fee of 2.9% goes straight to the payment processing company (or most of it, probably depending on payment method). Plus it’s the only fee and this is very clear on GoFundMe’s pricing page. To drum up some idea that it’s an extra hidden fee that GoFundMe is not transparent about is ridiculous. They are presumably asking for tips instead of higher fees so that people can pay according to what they’re able to pay.
emsign 4y ago
I find it alarming that there are digital payment terminals with tipping options. It might seem obligatory and you might think why not, but this is actually a huge deal. Because it's the business that has full control over tipping now. They control the apps and terminals. Sure you can use a digital payment method that let's the customer choose an arbitary amount as a tip, but you can also chose not to, the customer can't as he's not the one who's running your business. We as consumers are at the whim of the industry here. Cash meant that the customer had the full control of the amount he would like to tip.
Overtonwindow 4y ago
An issue I haven't seen mentioned (yet so please let me know if it has): If you don't tip you receive less service. Ordering at a taco restaurant I was asked to tip 20% on a $12 order. I hit the 15% but a thought occurred: What if I hit zero, would the service decrease, or will my food arrived cold? Has anyone experienced backlash from employees when you don't tip, or don't tip high enough?
kthejoker2 4y ago
For my family eating out, I have a flat $8 tip policy for restaurants, and a flat $5 tip policy for delivery. No tipflation for me, thanks. I have never felt any shame from either one. All restaurants are welcome to raise their prices.

70 points by lxm 4y ago

Yeah, I remember when 10-15% was customary. now I am seeing tipping options as high as 40%. The argument you hear is that wages are low and that tipping is a way to offset this. This is effectively a tax/inflation on consumers for companies not paying high enough wages. The tipping policy is set by management. The employee is not demanding the money.

swatcoder 4y ago
Looked at less cynically, it’s also just lingering generosity from a challenging shared experience. Many people, including myself, who experienced the luxury of secure remote work during the pandemic felt especially appreciative of the people who found themselves in more marginal or high-risk situations. When I was given the opportunity, I was happy to share that appreciation through larger tips. Now I’m just used to it. So are a lot of others.
- whatshisface 4y ago
  >When I was given the opportunity You know that you can tip as much as you want right? That's why it's called a tip. It's not billing.
  - SeanAnderson 4y ago
    You are not allowed to tip as much as you want in all scenarios. GrubHub currently disallows tipping >350% of the order, but, if memory serves, it used to be lower. Not saying it's wrong - it probably prevents fraud. But still :)
  - matthew-wegner 4y ago
    This isn't quite true, unless you bring various bill sizes to go along with a credit/debit transaction. And even then, it can be jarring for some of the situations mentioned in a negative context here (versus baked into the payment steps).
  - swatcoder 4y ago
    Opportunity as in “where tips are welcome”
  - snotrockets 4y ago
    For historical reasons (not wanting to pay for non white labour) in the US, it is customary by businesses to pay service personal minuscule wages, and shift the responsibility for their wages into the customer. As such, not tipping in the US is utilizing uncompensated labor, which is highly immoral. Until the current system is dismantled, you can either tip, or not participate in it. But not tipping and enjoying free labor is abhorrent.
    - whatshisface 4y ago
      This is in the context of tipping more.
- antisthenes 4y ago
  Higher prices and friction in the experience will just drive people to eat out less. So you may have higher tip %'s, but if people on average eat out only half as often, the service staff still receives less tips in aggregate. Frankly, the best way to address this is overall improvement of the safety net in the US, starting with single payer health care. Tips are a small shim-fix at best, and realistically a wedge between the service staff and their customers.
  - swatcoder 4y ago
    Sure, but when I feel warmly for the person who just helped me out, I’m not usually weighing the optimal strategies of civic development. I’m just sharing what I have to spare.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  I'll demonstrate "lingering generosity" spontaneously But begging me for it is crossing a line
bcrosby95 4y ago
If I saw a 40% tip even as an option I would leave zero. It's completely ridiculous.
- justin66 4y ago
  Thirty or forty percent is a built-in menu option on many point of sale systems - they'll often give you four different options. The only point you'd be making by choosing zero out of pique is "bcrosby95 is an asshole."
  - seneca 4y ago
    > The only point you'd be making by choosing zero out of pique is "bcrosby95 is an asshole." Please don't make comments containing personal attacks here. It degrades the community.
  - tass 4y ago
    Who configured it to show the option?
    - justin66 4y ago
      Certainly not the person who is likely to be negatively affected (i.e. your waiter, barrista, etc.) if you do not tip.
      - tass 4y ago
        I’m attempting to make the point that the POS vendors aren’t just showing these high numbers, but the owner or someone close to them is making the options appear. (i.e., it’s not really “built in” as to be permanent) That barista or waiter could even tell the owner that they’re not comfortable asking for 40%, or that they are getting more $0 tips since the option appeared, or that customers complained it’s a bit rich.
        deleted 4y ago
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taurath 4y ago

Wondering whether an experiment where a restaurant charges a flat amount, no tip, no taxes would do well right now. It feels impossible to leave the house even alone without spending $40 on even the smallest meal that isn't fast food. I went to IHOP and got an omelette, hash browns and toast (extra $5) in a city recently, and with a 20% tip it came to $29 for just that meal - $17 + 5 + $2 tax + $5 tip. The food cost can't have been more than $4. Its getting way out of hand, and yes minimum wage is getting higher but thats not a sufficient reason. Have noticed this isn't nearly a problem in cities with lower real estate costs. You can still get a $12 diner meal in chicago for instance.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> Have noticed this isn’t nearly a problem in cities with lower real estate costs. Well, yes, at any business you buy from, you are paying for all of their inputs, including any real estate they need, and, in addition, their costs reflect their suppliers (including employees, who need a place to live) costs, including real estate costs. So, yes, ceteris paribus, local real estate prices are going to have a major impact on prices, especially where inputs need to be locally sourced (including industries that rely on substantial on-site labor.)
- taurath 4y ago
  I was drawing that comparison because often pricing is blamed on minimum wage primarily and exclusively especially as business owners lobby against wage increases, while saying nothing about real estate costs. Wages become a bogeyman and only the business interests (including the real estate business) get addressed
listenallyall 4y ago
IHOP's pricing has exploded recently. Yes all of their omelettes are in the $14+ range. You didn't order a soda (Pepsi, uggh) which would have been $4 more. They aren't the only ones but, there seems to be a huge disconnect between what they charge and what you get, and it's evidenced by the restaurants often having a whole section or half entirely closed off and empty. IHOP does offer a "hoppy hour menu" but they even upped the price on that significantly from when they originally rolled it out.

jmclnx 4y ago

And I wonder how many business are taking a cut of the tip. I remember hearing this was common process in the past.

dijit 4y ago
if you leave tips via card machines it is extremely common in most countries that; A) those tips are pooled (thus the management is taking a cut) B) those tips are taxed. Therefore at least in most of Europe its better to drop some cash. if you are tipping. Not sure if it is the same in the US. EDIT: did I say something wrong or controversial?
- Tool_of_Society 4y ago
  Cash is better for that reason in the USA.
- deathanatos 4y ago
  (IANAL.) You're missing their point. The person above you is referring to the practice (and I've read about this any number of times in these discussions) that the business pockets the tip: the person you are tipping, effectively and in some circumstances, never receives it. This derives from the usual definition of their wage: > A tipped employee engages in an occupation in which he or she customarily and regularly receives more than $30 per month in tips. An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. (US Dept. of Labor: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips) Say, within an hour, I receive a meal. I decide to choose between tipping $0 or $4; the result of which is: I tip $0: The business pays $7.25 for the hour of work; the employee gains $7.25 I tip $4: The business pays $3.25 for the hour of work; the employee gains $7.25 So what was the point? That's not a tip, that's a business subsidy. That tips are taxed … yeah? so? The Man gets his cut, always.
- efraim 4y ago

ghostpepper 4y ago

Food delivery apps like Uber Eats are another one. They add up to 50% (or more) to the price of a meal for things like delivery fee, bag fee, service fee, priority delivery fee etc. and then prompt you to tip 20% of the total.

earthling8118 4y ago
Doordash will increase the base cost of items in addition to the extra fees
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  Skip does this too. Actual menu price 10.99 Skip menu price 11.99 Plus delivery fee, driver tip, etc.
- Karunamon 4y ago
  This is entirely up to the restaurant; likely to recoup some of the fees they are getting charged. I can pull open a local store right now and verify that the prices on the Doordash menu and the prices on the wall in the building are the same. … But that restaurant isn't on dashpass and has a delivery fee. So there is definitely some incentivizing of rolling the platform fees into your base prices.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    I think this really is one of the cheats that these delivery companies run. They also take cut from the food and this is invisible for the customer. It would be nice if they broke down the price. X for restaurant for the food, Y for delivery, Z for processing fees. And then n% cut from total to the middle man. But that might direct the consumers straight to restaurants, so no one will do that.
    - Karunamon 4y ago
      Most of these restaurants would not have delivery at all without companies like this. Source: decades of history before delivery apps were a thing.

bakugo 4y ago

If the tip is a mandatory % that is charged directly by the business and not an amount you willingly decide to give, it's not actually a tip. I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for americans.

mikebenfield 4y ago
Most of us understand this perfectly well. But there’s not a lot we can do about it.
- jbirer 4y ago
  There's a lot you can do. Change restaurant, cook at home, demand to know beforehand etc.
  - bagels 4y ago
    I can cook at home for a decade, but that isn't going to change how tipping works.
hacym 4y ago
It’s not mandatory. Culturally, though, it’s expected so people raise a stink about it if you don’t do it. What gets me is people/businesses that say “if you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to eat out”. No. If you can’t afford to pay your workers a livable wage without tips, you can’t afford to stay in business.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Banning tipping is not for you, as the customer, it's for the worker. If tips were banned, they'd just be part of the price and you'd still be paying it. When you refuse to tip, it's just free riding.
  - hacym 4y ago
    No, really? I’d gladly pay 10%-15% more to get eliminate tipping. Tipping sucks for consumers, sucks for employees, and is rooted in the worst parts of our history.

mariambarouma 4y ago

[dead]

pyrolistical 4y ago

Just pick 0% as protest. Is it or is it not optional? If it is not optional then increase the price

snotrockets 4y ago
That would be using uncompensated labor, as in the US, the burden of paying service personal was shifted to the customers. A protest would be not to buy from business that don’t pay their employees directly.

shostack 4y ago

I wonder if lower end QSR and fast service concept restaurants will be hit the hardest. Upscale places that were already expensive have less price sensitive customers. But try to shove more tips on top of an underwhelming $20 sandwich that has increasingly poor ingredients and less and less protein? Yeah, not gonna fly with price sensitive customers.

bradleyjg 4y ago

Just tell us the fucking price. No fees. No tips. No taxes. No special assessments. I don’t care about your costs. There’s a reason Americans hate buying cars and those that sell them.

closeparen 4y ago
The only thing Americans hate more than car dealers is the image of themselves as the sort of suckers who would ever pay a sticker price. You might go so far as to say Americans don't really buy cars; they buy the feeling of having gotten good deals on their cars.
- ianlevesque 4y ago
  What? I’ve yet to meet an American younger than my grandfather who haggles at all on anything.
  - californical 4y ago
    Interesting, almost everyone that I talk to will negotiate on a car. I’m also the kind of person to negotiate on lots of other things too. You can definitely save money on random things if you ask. Subscriptions for phone/tv/internet, electronics, furniture. Maybe not at ikea, but at a more local showroom Bought a bike on Craigslist for less, too. In fact, as far as I know, everyone prices things on Craigslist higher than they actually think the thing as worth. Because they know the buyer will offer them less than they post. I’m a young millennial.
    - andrewflnr 4y ago
      Craigslist is a special case. Big ticket items like cars are very, very special cases. Neither of them indicate anything about Americans' appetite for haggling in general. Personally I'd rather not.
      - pessimizer 4y ago

jasonhansel 4y ago

It is worth noting that, while the minimum wage is lower for tipped employees, their total pay still has to be above the ordinary (non-tipped) minimum wage. To quote https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips > An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

readams 4y ago
In California there is no tipped minimum. You have to be paid the normal minimum and then tips on top.
justin66 4y ago
I wonder if you believe "the employer makes up the difference" is a thing that actually happens just because it's suggested in a Department of Labor rule. In the US, employers often feel entitled to keep the money that people put in the tip jar, blatant theft, which ought to help you gauge matters here. https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/02/10/tip-thievery-codified/321478002/ https://www.jacksonsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/02/...
Tool_of_Society 4y ago
Simple solution for the employer is to report to the IRS the employee making enough tips to put them over minimum wage. It doesn't matter if the employee even made those tips. Employees can complain to regulatory groups but it won't get anywhere as the employer will just say the employee is lying to save on taxes.

ponector 4y ago

I like how it is done in France: service is included in price everywhere. Why this could not be done in US? Another point is tips distribution: there are many people involved in serving your meal. Does cook get tips? Does dishwasher? Does cleaning lady?

snotrockets 4y ago
Tips were created so that non white service personal could be employed but not paid wages to, as former slave owners found the concept of directly paying for labor abhorrent. They have integrated the idea of tips as the “American way” (just as much as police brutality or easy access to firearm) and it is now extremely hard to disintegrate. France had the luxury of having it colonies an ocean away, hence less resilience to a safety net back home, as it wouldn’t protect “undesirable”. Of course, now that they have crossed the ocean, that safety net is being slowly dismantled.
- dijit 4y ago
  A lot of loaded comments in this and with the risk of sounding combative or ignorant: citations?
  - snotrockets 4y ago
    Tipping as a way to avoid paying non whites: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fact-check-tipping-kept-wages-low-formerly-enslaved-black-workers/3896620001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/12/16/fac... and basically all over research and the internet. On difference between US and European racism, and the role of the distance from the colonies: https://knowledge.insead.edu/responsibility/recognising-and-confronting-racism-europe https://knowledge.insead.edu/responsibility/recognising-and-... and a large body of research. On dismantling of the safety net in France: just read a newspaper.
- dboreham 4y ago
  Confirms the theory that: "everything weird in the USA will turn out to be to do with slavery".

psadri 4y ago

The problem is that wages are basically not covering the cost of living (primarily housing). That money has to come from somewhere one way or another (or you will see stores closing, completely understaffed etc). The situation where some people make $300k/year, live in an area with $2m median price homes and expect to pay service fees for an area where homes are $100k simply can’t last.

SeanAnderson 4y ago

One thing I don't see talked about enough is the perception that reporting tips is optional. Governments know people underreport tips and still want their fair cut. A previous roommate of mine worked as a server where he was required to say he was getting at least 8% in tips on every order because it looks suspicious if that doesn't occur. So, in scenarios where a customer opts not to tip, it was actually costing money. If the expected value of tipping continues to rise then I have to assume these expectations will also rise which is only going to spite those receiving tips even further. I know my experience here is anecdotal. I'm curious if others in the industry have been given similar ultimatums from their places of employment.

Tool_of_Society 4y ago
Yes it's generally assumed that you're making at least a percentage of the sale as a tip. Most of the bigger employers automatically report your CC tips and an assumed percentage of cash tips. "unusually" low tips reported could result in the IRS taking a look at you. Some time ago I remember working a job where it didn't matter if you only made 5% tips over all they still reported to the IRS that you made 15%. You will see this often in areas where the hourly pay is below minimum wage. The employer will state you made up the difference in tips thus they are allowed to pay you less than minimum wage.
Atheros 4y ago
> in scenarios where a customer opts not to tip, it was actually costing money. More accurately, where a customer opts not to tip, the server isn't able to commit as much tax fraud.
- LightHugger 4y ago
  More accurately, the employer is able to pay the employee further below minimum wage.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

mensetmanusman 4y ago

I can’t wait until I see a tip prompt at my bank teller.

kossTKR 4y ago

Just came back from the US and is thoroughly confused! How is the percentage ratio fair as a system, doesn't it make the product price define what the servers are getting? First day i bought two lobster rolls from a street food vendor that was pretty expensive ($80, yup it was NY) and put 20% on top as a tip not really thinking - that's a whole lot of money for 2 seconds of service, pretty bizarre to me coming from Scandinavia. Later that day i bought a complete meal that was very cheap from another vendor, he used a lot of time to talk to me and make the food but it was only $10, so tipping 20% gave him a pretty small amount. If anything tipping should be relative to "time spent" for the server no? That said better wages - besides just compensating workers fairly - would also save everyone from constant awkwardness / social posturing and general inconvencies that made service experiences a constant tiring negotiation no?

asah 4y ago
You're not required to tip 20% and since nobody sees what you tip, you can tip them both $10 if you want.
- dboreham 4y ago
  > since nobody sees what you tip Eh, what? Of course they see.
Y_Y 4y ago
How about not spending eighty dollars on street food?
timr 4y ago
$40 for a lobster roll is the starting point for the rip off. That's insane. I just looked up the price of a Luke's Lobster lobster roll in NYC: $23-35 (not sure how/why the price varies). That's for a chain restaurant with a substantial real estate overhead, in a not-cheap city. I've started noticing that food truck prices are becoming ridiculous, in general. They used to be cheap alternatives to restaurants, but no longer.
vehementi 4y ago

ecommerceguy 4y ago

Customer facing displays for signature capture are driving this, not inflation. It more of a why not, cant hurt approach to accepting payments. It's affected me to the point where I pay mostly in cash. I believe Square was the entity that foisted this mess on us the most. They were an early adopter of CFDs with an added tip.

resuresu 4y ago

Tipping is just a way cheap business owners float the cost of wages to the customer.

darth_avocado 4y ago

I am okay with tips for a good service. I am not okay with > expectation of 20% as the bare minimum > tips when I did all the work, like when I picked up a prepackaged meal from a fridge and brought it to the counter or a “restaurant” where you order at the counter, pick up your meal and clean up after yourself when you’re done > tips when no service was involved like a pet store (what?) > tips for non tip employees like plumbers and electricians when you quoted me $100-$200 per hour > Delivery apps when you already paid delivery fee, service fee and a local flat drivers benefits fee > A barista

unsupp0rted 4y ago
I am not okay with tips for good service! Until we all stop being okay with tips for good service, we'll continue having to be annoyed, everywhere we buy, every time, even people who themselves work in the service industry.
- darth_avocado 4y ago
  That’s not true. Outside of the US, pretty much everywhere people are okay with tips with good service. The problem starts when people start expecting them.
  - unsupp0rted 4y ago
    > Outside of the US, pretty much everywhere people are okay with tips with good service That's not true :) In Korea, I've literally had people chase me down the street after I left to return a couple extra dollars worth of tips I'd "forgotten on the table". This is changing as American influence and tipping culture eats the world, but there's certainly large parts of the world where the price is the price and there's nothing more to it.

rossdavidh 4y ago

I have never, not once, in real-life conversation, heard anyone complaining about tipping. The cost of health care and health insurance, yes, the price of cars and the lack of negotiating leverage when there is a shortage, yes, the price of housing and rent, yes, but not one time have I heard people complaining about tipping. People who like ranting online may enjoy complaining about that portion of the workforce who gets tips, but for most people, that is quite literally the least of the inflationary problems.

prepend 4y ago
Your experience is not like mine. I’ve heard it hundreds of times. More if you count the reservoir dogs mr pink-style rant on tipping in general.
hacym 4y ago
“I don’t personally hear anyone talk about it so it’s not an issue” Seems a little self-centered.
pessimizer 4y ago
Haven't heard many more bizarre claims than complaining about tipping customs being some newfangled internet thing.
muser8 4y ago
Heh, even my kid complains about it. Your situation must be unique vs those in my circle.
trog 4y ago
You clearly have not met any Australians

pearjuice 4y ago

As someone who doesn't step foot in America much, I honestly cannot comprehend the "tipping culture". It's expected and almost mandatory as it's an integral part of workers pay but not absolutely mandatory or legally enforced. So any "rules" or customs are on a "you should know" basis. I've seen many receipts with an empty "tip amount" line above the total. Is there no consumer movement or workers organization whatsoever lobbying to just have the tip incorporated in the salary and purchase price?

dboreham 4y ago
Workers make more money from tips, so they're not going to protest.
Tool_of_Society 4y ago
Yes but they get crushed by the owners in the various industries. THe money/power these companies wield dwarf anything the employees could bring to bear. Unions would help this issue but they've been successfully slandered and destroyed over the last few decades.

ReptileMan 4y ago

Why tipping in percentage at all? The work to bring a plate to the table is the same for filet mignon and for a vegetable salad.

Ekaros 4y ago
Was coming to this. Shouldn't some reasonable rate of pay be calculated let's say 20/h. And then estimate how much time server and staff spend serving you. And then just add that to the bill?
ponector 4y ago
Why server should be tipped more than cook who actually made a huge effort to prepare a meal?

JonathanMerklin 4y ago

The system is bad, no doubt, but I personally have spent almost a decade living and interacting with reality with a hard fast personal rule that every numeric value I see fronted by a "$" is only 2/3 of the actual price, and adjust my purchase habits accordingly. It's not a hard conversion to make, and the amount of times it's an underestimation are greatly eclipsed by the number of times that it's spot on or even wrong enough to be a "good deal". Life's too short to be a pessimist all the time, but in certain contexts it helps to live by the adage that if you expect the worst, you'll rarely be disappointed.

Atheros 4y ago
If enough people have this attitude then the system collapses. Because if everyone tolerates the advertised price being 66% of actual then they'll tolerate 65% of actual. And businesses can make 1% more money by doing that. Which is a race to the bottom where advertised prices become completely disconnected from actual price and become of no value at all. You've just given up and are letting other people fight the fights for you.
- JonathanMerklin 4y ago
  What fight do you recommend I take? The way I see it, if I balk at additional fees, taxes, and tips, there is a relatively high risk that I don't even receive the product or service - which is no different than my current strategy of, loosely, "spending within my means plus a 50% buffer", with the added detriment of wasted time and effort on the haggling process.

greatgib 4y ago

The situation is a lot better in most Europe and especially France. Service charges are already included in prices, mandatory, employees are paid a somehow correct salary, at least the legal national minimal salary. No tip is really expected. And also not needed for the employees to be able to survive. So it is a no brainer here for customers to go to restaurant or cafés. You can still tip, really as a small gesture, but it is with coins you leave on the table before leaving if you enjoyed the service. Around 0.5, 1 or 2 euros. You do that after you paid when the employee leave so lot less social pressure. The idea of the tip here is to thank the employee with something to pay a coffee or drink. Also, prices on anything (menu,...) Are already all charges and taxes included. So again, you know clearly and directly what you will pay in advance without deception.

Overtonwindow 4y ago
Tipping is a relic from slavery which is why Europe does not have to deal with it. https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee#:~:text=It's%20a%20legacy%20of%20slavery,or%20no%20wages%20at%20all https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee....

dom96 4y ago

This is uniquely a US-style thing, but even now in the UK I am noticing more and more restaurants adding a 12.5% service charge. Definitely not a great trend.

boring_twenties 4y ago

What really gets me is the recent trend to request tips for counter-serve and takeout. Like, WTF? I really don't like the feeling of being the guy who explicitly chooses the "no tip" option, so in the end I've pretty much stopped going to these places altogether.

jstarfish 4y ago
It's fucked of them to even ask. This is apparently a standard feature for some new POS terminals, but the business owner has no incentive to disable it.

nitwit005 4y ago

You should always view tipping as a donation to a company instead of a person. You're helping them pay their employees less. That's why they happily ask for tips at kiosks, and want the amount raised. They'll keep pushing the amount up until legislation forces them to stop.

biznick 4y ago

If you are young reading this and working in a tipping industry, the smart way to take advantage of this situation is to work at a location that has high throughput per employee. Actually being in the a sit down restaurant at this point is not a wise decision (except maybe high end). I would look at businesses like ice-cream parlors that have long lines during busy hours and have forced tipping screens as a good starting point, and try to get hours during the busiest times (7pm-9pm after dinner). I've heard owners in this industry complain recently that employees make more than they do as the owner per hour because of tips.

karaterobot 4y ago

When we instituted the $15/hr minimum wage in Seattle, I wondered idly whether that would reduce the pressure to tip 20%+ at restaurants. It should, right? Because if the reason to tip is really to address economic inequalities in the service industry, then doubling the minimum wage should mean less tip wages are required. The tips were meant to bring the effective wage up to a certain threshold we arbitrary decided we could stop feeling so guilty about — and so was the $15 minimum. (another possibility is the 20% tipping level was arbitrary, and turned out to be too low to have been serving its intended purpose in the first place. That is very possible.) Anyway, I wondered about that, and predicted that the power of upper middle class guilt was strong enough that we'd just continue doing the same thing as always, which turned out to be more or less correct up until now. We'll see how this shakes out.

bastard_op 4y ago

I'm basically at this point being forced to tip for shit service. Who could be happier?

btgeekboy 4y ago

I just got an invoice from a company that came out yesterday and resealed all of the gaps/protrusions/etc on my roof. $475 plus tax. Little high considering the effort, but it's a tall townhome, so no way in hell I'm getting up on a ladder that high and doing it myself. I got to the checkout process and there was a tip box. Since when do you tip roofers? I didn't even interact with the guys that showed up and did the work - the appointment was planned, they came out and did it, and they left. The options on the tip box were 10, 15, and 20%. Needless to say, I set it to 0. It's getting ridiculous. I paid for a service, it was performed, and that should be that. I'm not tipping an extra $50-100 for doing your job. This wasn't even a one-man show, it was a company, so I have no idea how those tips are distributed.

dgreensp 4y ago

This just sounds like the author not liking to tip more than 20% and being concerned someone might judge them for that. There is “research” cited in the article, but not when it comes to supporting the headline, only to make other points. The fact that a professor of economics wrote an essay saying that somebody might have some negative feelings about tipping is not news. The comments here are sure to be way more thoughtful and balanced an exploration of the topic. This part tells me the author is making up controversy and is not looking at things very reasonably: > It's not only human workers who are asking for tips, but services like GoFundMe, a platform for people to fundraise for issues like emergency health costs. When people donate to a cause, the site asks for a "tip" to help it continue functioning. GoFundMe also charges a processing fee, which is deducted from the donations before the recipient receives the money; it doesn't disclose this processing fee when it asks donors to add a tip. From what I can tell, the processing fee of 2.9% goes straight to the payment processing company (or most of it, probably depending on payment method). Plus it’s the only fee and this is very clear on GoFundMe’s pricing page. To drum up some idea that it’s an extra hidden fee that GoFundMe is not transparent about is ridiculous. They are presumably asking for tips instead of higher fees so that people can pay according to what they’re able to pay.

emsign 4y ago

I find it alarming that there are digital payment terminals with tipping options. It might seem obligatory and you might think why not, but this is actually a huge deal. Because it's the business that has full control over tipping now. They control the apps and terminals. Sure you can use a digital payment method that let's the customer choose an arbitary amount as a tip, but you can also chose not to, the customer can't as he's not the one who's running your business. We as consumers are at the whim of the industry here. Cash meant that the customer had the full control of the amount he would like to tip.

Overtonwindow 4y ago

An issue I haven't seen mentioned (yet so please let me know if it has): If you don't tip you receive less service. Ordering at a taco restaurant I was asked to tip 20% on a $12 order. I hit the 15% but a thought occurred: What if I hit zero, would the service decrease, or will my food arrived cold? Has anyone experienced backlash from employees when you don't tip, or don't tip high enough?

kthejoker2 4y ago

For my family eating out, I have a flat $8 tip policy for restaurants, and a flat $5 tip policy for delivery. No tipflation for me, thanks. I have never felt any shame from either one. All restaurants are welcome to raise their prices.