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Apple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide
- mjfl 4y agoIf you look at the headcount growth chart, it looks like they just didn't overhire in the first place.
- joadha 4y agoIt may have been worth it for the author to mention that Apple is sitting on the biggest pile of cash in the known universe.
- olliej 4y agoGoogle, Facebook, Microsoft, … are also sitting absolutely giant piles of money as well.
- scarface74 4y agoGoogle has the focus of a crack addled flea and has products that aren’t profitable and people working on them - including probably 4 new messaging apps simultaneously. Facebook predicted that it would lose billions in potential revenue because of Apple making tracking optional. Microsoft is basically just cutting employees that are on products that it doesn’t care about anymore. You can say what you will about Apple. But no one can accuse Apple of a lack of focus on profitable product lines.
- nrp 4y agoApple does a much better job than most big tech companies of canceling or rebooting projects they don’t think will be successful before they ship rather than after. See for example the car project and AR/MR, both of which have been restarted more than once.
- tempnow987 4y agoGoogle was doing Fuchsia. SUPER cool... but what is the business case there? They are also ham strung by just not listening to customers it feels like - so I think that impacts traction. You get an 80% solution with simple glaring edges. Thousands ask - please fix this edge, but whoever is driving the product is onto something else it feels like sometime. Apple's main product lines all seem to make money, have positive margin. Their R&D is speculative as well, but at least too me seem to have a clearer path to product. I would love an apple interface in my car vs whatever the OEM ships in most cases. Even Tesla, with most advanced interface just can't keep it current / smooth / familiar etc the way apple does (music / playlist / etc integrations alone).
- karlkatzke 4y agoA bunch of Google’s lack of focus is their internal management culture and nothing will change (and google/alphabet will not be worth being a customer of or being investing in) until the culture problem is fixed. Google only promotes engineers when they are part of a program launch. No credit is ever given for feature launch or program maintenance. If you are not a part of a program launch within a few years at google/alphabet you are managed out. This doesn’t create a company that I’d find it worth investing my limited engineering hours in long term. A GCE sales person called me last week and I couldn’t help but laughing when I told them that I’d just agreed to five year terms on an AWS private pricing agreement the previous week. Google’s recent actions made me unsure GCE would still be a product in five years.
- ElFitz 4y ago> Google’s recent actions made me unsure GCE would still be a product in five years. Out of curiosity, which actions are you referring to?
- mattclarkdotnet 4y agoThese ones? https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/
- olliej 4y agoOh yeah, the reason these other companies are laying off thousands is because they've spent years hiring indiscriminately, and having many boondoggle (sp?) projects, numerous loss leader products ("we'll be profitable selling this at a loss, because we can spy on people more" - people complained about the cost of HomePod vs Alexa, etc and have said "speaker quality!" as the reason, but also all of those assistants are sold at or below cost). The problem is that many are now doing a "we need to fire x% of the company so I can get my stock reward... I mean be profitable", and are doing it in arbitrary and short sighted ways (stack ranking is an incredibly stupid way to cut people), so while cutting N-1 of N chat teams at google might be reasonable, cutting teams working on potentially high value future tech _just_ because it's not currently profitable. Take Fuchsia: I worked on it during my brief google stint, and even if they did decide it didn't have a future (and I think that was not the rationale here), there were incredible engineers they've apparently discarded that would still have been good to keep working on other things at google. Others have said FB and G were also mass hiring to stop people being hired by each other - I'm not sure how true that is, I was never involved in interviewing people at G but even if I were the interview system there seemed very strange to me so even if I were interviewing people I don't know if I'd have been aware of hiring-to-stop-FB nonsense.
- nr2x 4y agoThey still put out stinkers, they just kill them fast. Ping?
- asdff 4y agoOTOH the butterfly keyboard was one of their biggest stinkers that was not killed nearly fast enough, and the new keyboards still don't feel as good as the 2012s.
- xarope 4y agoSlightly off topic, but when I encounter the phrase butterfly keyboard I think of that really cool sliding keyboard that IBM came up with for the Thinkpad 701c... and not a failing keyboard switch.
- varjag 4y agoButterfly keyboard was better than whatever the mushy crap before it was called.
- asdff 4y agoApple is full of lack of focus these days. The laptops use usb-c to charge like the rest of the worlds thankfully, but the phone still uses lightning. New ipad supports the old apple pencil and not the new one for some reason. Can't let them off too easy about the butterfly keyboards either.
- senttoschool 4y agoThat cash pile belongs to investors and stock holders.
- agloe_dreams 4y agoSo does Apple, it’s all the same.
- CGamesPlay 4y agoAnd is managed by a CEO who is choosing not to lay off workers. Are you saying that Apple is wrong to not do layoffs? You can go express that with your votes in the investor meeting, that you don’t want Apple to be the star in these PR pieces about being a great employer who doesn’t lay off employees.
- kaashif 4y agoI read their comment as implying that Apple should distribute that cash pile to investors through buybacks or dividends. I don't know what about their comment implies they want layoffs.
- senttoschool 4y agoI'm implying that Apple's cash pile belongs to investors and shareholders. Part of that money is used to pay employees. However, that cash pile is not a charity for employing workers that is no longer needed at the company.
- californical 4y agoAnd what specific employees are unnecessary, which you feel qualified to fire?
- senttoschool 4y agoI don't feel qualified to fire anyone. I'm just stating how public corporations work.
- atkailash 4y ago[dead]
- ulfw 4y agoAs if Google was on the verge of bankruptcy... Microsoft, Google, Apple all have enormous amounts of cash stored thanks to their fantastic earnings for so many years.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago>Microsoft, Google, Apple all have enormous amounts of cash stored thanks to their fantastic earnings for so many years. Your earnings are fantastic until they suddenly aren't and then by that time, it's too late to turn the ship around on all the mistakes that lead to it. Just ask Nokia or Kodak.
- petesergeant 4y ago* for now
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ojbyrne 4y agoToday: https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS50146623 https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS50146623
- marricks 4y agoLarge drop in their biggest sector is a reason for layoffs when they’ve historically never done it.
- KerrAvon 4y agoWho would Apple lay off? They don’t hire people for the sake of keeping people around. Apple teams are lean, and manager count is held to the minimum necessary.
- asdff 4y agoNot surprising honestly. New iphones start at like $800 before tax now and only incrementally improve on the previous couple of models. Inflation is also high for housing along with a lot of other consumer goods, and my gas company just doubled the rate for January. I bet this is already priced in.
- dmitriid 4y agoStill looks good for Apple. - 18.3% Drop in the holiday quarter for the sector, but 14.9% drop for Apple. - 11.3% YoY drop for the sector, only a 4.0% drop for Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if in the end Apple will have gained marketshare as a result.
- xbar 4y agoNot primarily an ad-based business.
- webwielder2 4y agoApple is a generally more well run, mature, patient, and scrupulous company than most others.
- NeverFade 4y agoYou make them sound like saints. They are not, and they have a history of being less scrupulous than some of these other companies. Here's just a small example of what they're capable of when their obsession for secrecy and control makes them flex their corporate muscle: http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/09/07/iphone.5.probe/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/09/07/iphone.5.probe/ind... And we didn't even talk about their sweatshops in China which has always had persistent labor-abuse issues[0], the Chinese government boosting iPhone production with child slave labor, and all the many other scandals they've been involved with. I really have no idea how anyone would get the notion that they are any better than the rest of the pack. Perhaps their upbeat pristine presentations, live from Cupertino. They should broadcast one from their sweatshops in Shenzhen. Some of the highschool kids they pressed into 11 hour shifts to assemble their iPhones could sing the praise of Tim Cook: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/21/apple-iphone-x-reportedly-assembled-by-illegal-student-labor.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/21/apple-iphone-x-reportedly-as... [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn-worker-conditions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn... EDIT: clarified some comments and added better sources.
- trynewideas 4y agohttps://techpp.com/2023/01/25/tech-layoffs-apple-2023/ https://techpp.com/2023/01/25/tech-layoffs-apple-2023/ > Amazon, for instance, hired about 780,000 people during the pandemic. Meta, too, had more than doubled its staff in this period, going from about 40,000 to 87,000. Even Microsoft had hired about 77,000 people just before the pandemic. > Apple, in comparison, is believed to have hired under 20,000 people during the period of the pandemic. Can't layoff people you didn't hire. Besides, if they lay anyone off, it'll be through retail (already happening in their third-party channel sales staff, who are employed by Apple but work in stores like Best Buy) and eventually retail closures when/if they can do it without being accused of more union-busting.
- mgh2 4y agoGraphs here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34448103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34448103
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y agoDid the pandemic really increase business so much that they had to hire that many people?
- swixmix 4y agoThe government incentives were based on employees.
- DSingularity 4y agoOh wow. I didn’t even know they went for PPP programs. Crazy.
- unity1001 4y agoWow. That makes it even more horrible. So they did it to get PPP money - the public's money - and now they are dumping the very people who paid them that money. ~160,000 people laid off means up to ~500,000 people involved when you count in the families, relatives etc. This feels more like theft than anything else when you count in the PPP - they took taxpayers' money, they ate it with stock buybacks etc, now they are dumping those taxpayers...
- josephshaw92 4y ago[flagged]
- tonmoy 4y agoI don’t think Apple went on a hiring spree like the rest of the tech giants during the pandemic, but there is still time for even Apple to start cutting jobs.
- camillomiller 4y agoWell, Tim Cook started by halving his compensation. I didn't hear anything like that from his fellow CEOs who all "took full responsibility" for the choice of going for mass firing instead.
- changoplatanero 4y agoIt's not like him halving his compensation makes any material difference in the ability of the company to avoid layoffs.
- Paraesthetic 4y agoIt's a PR stunt. Get shareholders and the public talking about 'oh poor CEO he lost a few of the many many millions he earns a year'
- ipaddr 4y agoAn expensive one and probably least successful as many haven't heard the news.
- colineartheta 4y agoI can’t find a single instance of this being said about his pay cut in the media. If you could support this claim, it’d be appreciated. Also, as an Apple shareholder, that’s definitely not my reaction to the pay cut.
- berniedurfee 4y agoNor any material impact to his day to day life. Having half a zillion dollars in the bank ain’t much different from a full zillion.
- jquery 4y agoSo these tech giants just happened to all do layoffs around the same time. What a coincidence. Almost like they are organized against their workers.
- slenk 4y agoI'd say its more of CEO's having FOMO
- parineum 4y agoNot everything is a conspiracy. It's very obvious that Musk cutting jobs at Twitter had them/him take the brunt of the news cycles about the job cut because it happened first. Each subsequent company has faced less and less blowback. I'm sure they've all been wanting to do this for a while but didn't want the headlines.
- nailer 4y agoThe remarkable thing is how little using Twitter actually changed. The biggest change from cutting a bunch of staff seems to be... increased velocity?
- jquery 4y agoWell, yeah, except its core ad business is in shambles: https://www.reuters.com/technology/heres-what-twitter-lost-advertising-revenue-final-months-2022-2023-01-19/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/heres-what-twitter-lost-a...
- jdhendrickson 4y agoI see a lot of people quick to dismiss and down vote this comment. I understand why, people don't like unsupported supposition and conspiracy theories when they in theory pride themselves on being logical. I'd like to point out how similar replies and derision were directed at people who suspected there was collusion to fix engineers salaries and how their was a "gentleman's agreement" to prevent hiring engineers away from each other amongst these very same companies. That happened in 2014 and it proved these same companies were all in close communication with each other in regard to staffing and salaries. They were caught and convicted and paid a small portion of the money saved by colluding as a fine. Do I believe we have any evidence anyone is currently colluding in order to lay off enough people to cool down a rapidly heating up labor market, and suppress the demand to work remotely and be paid the same as their peers in high cost of living areas like the Bay? No. Do I believe they would do so if it increased profits or manipulated the cost center they hate the most (salaries and headcount) in a beneficial way, and have the means to communicate with each other unofficially to coordinate such actions, yeah, I do. They've already proven they were willing and able to do so in the past. So while baseless accusation might be useless conspiracy fodder, cynicism is warranted when a seemingly coordinated action is being taken. Cynicism is warranted in all dealings with all of these companies. They are amoral, and exist at a level of income in which the legal system has only a tenuous hold. They have also demonstrated in the past they are willing to collude in order to hurt engineers to their benefit. Just food for thought, and discussion. I would prefer to think about how they could be caught if that's what they were doing, and how the issue could be dealt with, rather than dismissing it out of hand. However, labor conditions for people like us has so far not descended to the point where embracing the concept of unionization is appealing, and I don't see any other way engineers could fight for job security, and wage increases commiserate with inflation or pinned to profit margins. It's funny, there are a lot of brilliant people in this industry, but we are still being taken advantage of by the same old hucksters, and con men, I've seen it for 20 years. You would think at some point we would find a way to fight back even if it didn't involve unionizing, but it's the same pattern of the "business" guys robbing the piggy bank, or turning good places to work into dystopian nightmares for a percent more of return for that quarter. Then we just pull up stakes and move on to another company make a bit more until they do the same thing there. At some point it's all going to suck then what?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- majestik 4y agoI sense this Apple positivity in the news cycle will fade next week when the earnings report comes out.
- marricks 4y agoWhat positivity? This is just a bunch of facts showing Apple hasn’t laid off folks in the past and didn’t over hire recently so it probably won’t lay off folks.
- MontagFTB 4y agoAdobe is swimming against the layoff tide as well. Granted it’s comparing apples to… adobes, but my point is it’s not all doom and gloom in the valley.
- baby 4y agoMy startup of 30 employees is doing well as well
- Apocryphon 4y agoThey’re both age-old companies as far as Silicon Valley goes, have an artistic streak, and based in the South Bay. They’ve got some similarities.
- agnosticmantis 4y agoAlso, both names start with ‘a’ and end in ‘e’. (/s, but also making a point…)
- mjhagen 4y agoThey both have 5 letters... I think you're on to something!
- random3 4y ago+1 My startup of 6 also hiring ;)
- me2i81 4y agoAdobe went through a period where they laid people off every November. They seemed quite addicted to it.
- exodust 4y agoThe recent push by Apple to promote privacy controls has attracted and renewed trust in the brand. That's my theory as a partial explanation of recent success. They correctly identified privacy controls as something people actually want for real, even just knowing it's there is a nice feeling. Knowing my front door is reinforced with 7 optional locks, is much better than a fly-screen door with a privacy policy attached. Meanwhile, MS and Google and Facebook remove options and rely on the opposite of privacy: over-sharing by default. Telemetry by default. Ads, suggestions, ads pretending to be suggestions, bloatware.
- college_physics 4y agoApple is the one commercial entity that could completely disrupt surveillance capitalism and reboot the digital space to an era reminiscent of the Microsoft monopoly - but now with their huge attached and interoperable mobile user base. What they simply need to do is make self-hosting (using Mac devices) trivially easy and support a number of new/updated protocols for decentralized online interactions (messaging, blogs, search, social etc). Monopolies are never optimal, but given the dismal moral basis of the other "big tech" I'd take it any day...
- danaris 4y ago> make self-hosting (using Mac devices) trivially easy They did this for years: every Mac starting with the first release of Mac OS X had a built-in Apache webserver, and activating it was just the click of a button in the Sharing preference pane. Problem is, the segment of people who a) are willing and able to create web content, and b) only want the very basics as provided by Apple (including whatever versions of Perl and other server-side languages happened to ship with the OS) is a fairly slim one. The other problem is, almost no one has an ISP that's friendly to self-hosting from your home. I believe Apple removed Web Sharing from the Sharing preference pane a few years ago now.
- college_physics 4y agoI did not know about built-in Apache (cool). Last I have seen this was in a NAS server. I was never into the Apple ecosystem but I recall hearing e.g. about appletalk [0] What you describe are both real hindrances and somehow not fundamental. E.g. people migrated en mass to centralized social media also for simple personalized websites (which in retrospect might not have been in their best interests). My sense is that as time goes on it will take an active act of suppression for self-hosting not to become potentially much more widespread and ofcourse if a major and credible player can remove friction points for non-technical people this will only open the floodgates. As for ISP's, yes, they are a big part of the problem. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleTalk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleTalk
- microtherion 4y agoI don't recall whether this was ever stated explicitly, but I always had the impression that this is one of the elements of Apple's strategy that is still driven by the tribal memory of the late 1990s turmoil. Both Steve Jobs and Tim Cook were there at the time, and especially the former (who also had witnessed a 1980s bust) was determined to never be in this position again. So as a consequence: * Apple is hoarding cash to an extent that business analysts dislike (although Tim has reduced this to some extent) * Teams are being run leaner than they'd like to be (not nearly as much so as in the pre-iOS times, admittedly) * Conversely, since the company builds good reserves and not too much bloat in good times, it can and will avoid overreacting to bad times.
- ethanbond 4y agoSo essentially the basics of building any resilient system. Sad that our market economy punishes this approach in the general case.
- danieljacksonno 4y agoPunishes? Apple is the most highly valued company of all.
- acdha 4y agoThey’re also an outlier and a lot of what they do would be judged more harshly by analysts and activist shareholders if they weren’t so profitable. The question should be how we get more companies like Apple.
- wayeq 4y agoIt really isn't, lots of F500 tech companies are not cutting and making a selling point of the fact to investors this earning season.
- lifeinthevoid 4y agoApple still has time to cut some jobs no? Maybe they're just the last in the row ...
- lanza 4y agoThis is such a weird topic. The comparison is between companies that didn't exist 20 years ago like Meta and the 50 year old industry veteran Apple. Of course Apple didn't hire as fast, they were established. That's like saying a 20 year old college student grew more over the past decade than a 40 year old engineer. Yea, that's how life works.
- Centigonal 4y agoYou make a great point - although the OP does include Microsoft in the comparison.
- amatecha 4y agoWhat does the age of the corporations have to do with how responsibly they staff their business(es)? Also, I'd suggest that the assertion that corporations somehow all move towards responsibly managing staffing numbers warrants some supporting documentation. The article we're talking about already indicates a pretty significant example that directly contradicts what you're suggesting: Microsoft -- actually an older business than Apple, for that matter.
- kergonath 4y ago> Also, I'd suggest that the assertion that corporations somehow all move towards responsibly managing staffing numbers warrants some supporting documentation. Definitely. Though it might be difficult to test properly. I expect a lot of survivor bias, with companies having a reasonable long-term strategy faring significantly better in the long run (Microsoft notwithstanding, in this case).
- hnfong 4y agoWith age comes experience, although the variety of experiences may differ. The "near death" variety that Apple experienced during the 90s led to a conservative fiscal culture (among the top level executives at least) compared with the rest of the tech industry.
- brown9-2 4y agoAre you saying that Google or Meta are not “established”?
- cvccvroomvroom 4y agoAnother issue is culture. Not everyone wants to work for an oppressive, intrusive employer like Apple. That sort of limits who would apply to them. Amazon is a retailer, a logistics company, and a VPS. AWS was spared most layoffs.
- asdff 4y agoAgainst the job cuts tide, so far!
- testfrequency 4y agoWorking at Apple is the equivalent of working for Target in the US. Good brand image, everything appears great on surface, employees all appear homogeneous - however..the internal feuds, dislike for leadership, and cost cutting measures make it completely miserable to work at. I’m still of the belief Apple probably should do layoffs, but won’t. Pandemic has not been kind to their profits either, but Tim will take the salary cut just to take the good PR.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago> Pandemic has not been kind to their profits either https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/net-income https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/net-inc... 2022 $99,803 2021 $94,680 2020 $57,411 2019 $55,256 2018 $59,531
- papruapap 4y agoI wonder how much of this "growth" is because inflation and ads. Also, Apple benefits on others' companies doing well. But yeah, I think Apple brand loyalty is at all time high.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dmitrygr 4y ago> the internal feuds, dislike for leadership, and cost cutting measures make it completely miserable to work at. Guess I am lucky. Haven't seen anyone dislike Tim or his team. I have access to all the hardware I could ever need, and I am not miserable at work. I do not think any of my teammates are either.
- 5350-uiop-1130 4y agoApple: The only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide.....yet
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- roughly 4y agoCoincidentally, they’re the most valuable company on earth.
- michelb 4y agoDon't they simply need the people to actually get stuff out the door? Almost every other year teams are being shoved into another department to the detriment of a product, so they can get something else out because otherwise it won't happen. Sounds like they actually need more people, not less. To me, Apple always sounds like it's spread way too thin or running on the absolute minimum. Meanwhile I'm still looking at bugs in my OS that have survived a decade.
- arthurofbabylon 4y agoBeyond hiring and into product design and even marketing I see Apple’s approach as generative. They’re willing to step into new territory, which precludes following others and frequent reactivity. This generative, self-directed style is juxtaposed by the reactive approach of Google, Amazon, and most other huge megacorps. I’m not sure what’s going on. Obviously Apple has a stronger vision than most tech companies. Obviously most tech companies chase returns and live in fear of missed opportunities. Maybe it is simply this combination of factors that sets Apple apart from the crowd.
- NicoJuicy 4y agoCloudfare is hiring and kept on hiring too fyi :) Note : fan of the company. Since it's not yet "big tech" ;)
- kaushikc 4y agoAmazon has lead the way to a philosophy of hire early and fire early. This is why they have run out of people who would like to work for them with the same conditions that they offered before.
- jb1991 4y agoI thought I saw an article recently about a memo that Nvidia’s CEO had sent everyone about how strongly he opposes layoffs in general. So Apple would not be the only one?
- greenpizza13 4y agoYeah there haven’t been layoffs at NVIDIA.
- seper8 4y agoHaving first hand seen the waste - in the form of non productive employees - I am a bit surprised by the flak that companies are getting for firing a relatively small percentage of people at the same time, especially when they are fearing a downturn...
- papito 4y agoTim Apple was the one who brought the company from being a financial war zone to an extremely profitable company - by overhauling their logistics. He is ultimately a logistics and supply chain man, and he hates waste. By the way, this is a good example of how vision and ideas (Jobs) will not build a successful company alone without execution. Apple always struggled with that until Jobs brought in Cook. Of course, Steve Jobs would never allow the Weather App in the new MacOS to be so bad compared to Dark Sky ;)
- devinprater 4y agoGood. That means their small accessibility team hasn't gotten any smaller.
- ngcc_hk 4y agoThe situation changed and in a market economy you can adjust quickly. Not sure what is problem. This is unlike Twitter where a firm is destroyed and people fired not because of situation but because someone has money to burn. And instead of creating a new firm to compete he just fired people of that firm he did not like. That is the “good” and “bad” of market system. Sorry but both involved firing people.
- temptemptemp111 4y ago[dead]
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y agoThe Apple brand has some serious cachet. They can attract top-shelf people, and keep the salaries reasonable. I worked for a company that had similar "cachet," and they were cheap bastards, but they did keep people, and their posture resulted in remarkably few "non-serious" applicants. The people who applied really wanted to work there. As a hiring manager, I appreciated not having to sort through a pile of totally unsuited résumés, and, as a bonus, the ones that were unsuited, on paper, were often the high-achieving, ambitious "diamond in the rough" types that I looked for.
- Sheeny96 4y agoI've sesn this headline everywhere and being shared all over Linkedin. There's definitely some PR here from Apple.
- berniedurfee 4y agoI think I’m more in favor of over hiring than under hiring. Getting money and experience in the hands of the workforce doesn’t seem like a bad thing. Being laid off sucks, been there, but I was glad to have had the work, compensation and experience while it lasted.
- OisinMoran 4y agoAre there small tech giants?
- jsjohnst 4y agoI get your point completely, but to me, yes there are “small” tech giants. They are the tech companies that aren’t remotely FAANG scale, but are still common household names.
- mclightning 4y agoPalantir, not a big tech giant, but a tech giant for sure.
- giarc 4y ago"the only big tech giant going against the job cuts tide"..... so far.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- outside1234 4y agoIt wouldn't surprise me all to learn later that Apple savvily was hiring up talent the Google bozoputer fired this whole "recession"
- smrtinsert 4y agoI'll look to work there instead of all the others, it's literally that simple.
- gerash 4y agoI have developed strong opinions about tech companies over the years yet these discussions look more and more like sports fans arguing over whose team is better. People try to find reasons to justify why their team is the goat and why the rest are simply worse.
- _fat_santa 4y agoOur brains have a way of "sports teamifying" just about everything. Worded properly, you could probably kick off a firestorm argument on HN with 1k+ comments about apples vs oranges.
- martin82 4y agoCould it be that Apple is the only one amongst those that is more of a hardware than a software company? Also not running a social network and not reliant on online ads-sales.
- wizofaus 4y agoHow much does MS or Amazon make from online ad sales? Not sure you could claim either runs a social network either.