13 ms·

The president of Toyota will be replaced to accelerate the transition to EV

39 points by grecy 4y ago

bryanlarsen 4y ago
Let's say it's 2027 and you've narrowed down your shortlist to a Tesla Model 3, a VW id.3 and a Toyota Corolla EV. The Model 3 has had 10 years to work out the kinks, the id.3 has had 5 and the Corolla EV is brand new. Which would you choose? Lots of people would pick the Corolla, expecting it to be the most reliable, well engineered and well built. Toyota can be late to the EV party and still succeed, a luxury other makers without their reputation and experience do not have. The b4zx is evidence against this thesis, but I don't think it invalidates it.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  The b4zx was so bad that nobody can figure out how they managed to miss the mark so badly. It's more expensive than others in the same category, it has worse range, no battery heating - or preheating, only two fast charges per day. And even the "fast" charging is at under 5kW levels if it's even close to 0 C outside. Why would I pay over 10k more for that instead of a Model Y or Ioniq 5?
theshrike79 4y ago
This is my standard set of questions for people who advocate hydrogen vehicles for personal use: 1: How much does it cost to run and operate a hydrogen refuelling station? As a reference: we have been building these since 1999, we should know this now and it should be 100% clear. 2: How many hydrogen cars can you refuel in a row? What happens when you reach the limit? 3: How is the hydrogen delivered, how often and how much does it cost? 4: Can hydrogen stations operate normally in northern winter conditions? 5: What is the normal operational age for hydrogen stations? 6: Where can I find a winter test for hydrogen vehicles? Cold starts from proper frozen conditions (-25C)
- _hypx 4y ago
  1 - Same as a CNG or LPG station 2 - Same as a CNG or LPG station 3 - Either via pipelines or tanker trucks. The former is cheaper, although for more remote stations the latter is more practical 4 - Yes 5 - Same as a CNG or LPG station 6 - Here is an example: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0371813EN/co2-free-driving-pleasure-in-all-weather-conditions:-the-bmw-ix5-hydrogen-in-final-winter-testing-close-to-the-arctic-circle?language=en https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T037181...
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    1. Actual numbers and sources please? I'm not convinced that hydrogen storage has the same costs as CNG/LPG, it's a very different gas to store. 2. Actual numbers and sources please? 3. Who will construct and pay for these pipelines, since you can't use CNG/LPG pipes for hydrogen? 4. Actual sources please? 5. https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/german-city-to-retire-its-one-year-old-hydrogen-fuel-cell-buses-after-2-3m-filling-station-breaks-down/2-1-1375568 https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/german-city-to-ret... and https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-19/shell-closes-uk-hydrogen-filling-stations-as-evs-dominate https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-19/shell-clo... 6. Ahh yes, BMW press release about BMW testing a BMW car themselves. Totally neutral and unbiased. Toyota had the same thing, they preheated the car before each run because fuel cells really don't like freezing.
    - _hypx 4y ago
      Hydrogen works nearly exactly like CNG. People have created fantasy stories as if it was the blood from Xenomorphs. In reality, it's corrosiveness is pretty underwhelming. Actual issues related to corrosion or hydrogen embrittlement only happens after decades of exposure or in specific situations. As long as you avoid these specific scenarios and do proper maintenance, you do not have a problem. For instance, hydrogen can be made to flow through natural gas pipelines with only minor modifications: https://assets.siemens-energy.com/siemens/assets/api/uuid:3d4339dc-434e-4692-81a0-a55adbcaa92e/200915-whitepaper-h2-infrastructure-en.pdf?ste_sid=94d6fa2f436145177f5433c7969ec17c https://assets.siemens-energy.com/siemens/assets/api/uuid:3d... It can be extrapolated that fuel cell cars will similar in most aspects to CNG and LPG powered cars which also have to deal with pressurized gases. A lot of the anti-hydrogen articles are paid marketing from competing technologies. They are basically not stories at all. FUD is more accurate. > Ahh yes, BMW press release about BMW testing a BMW car themselves. Totally neutral and unbiased. Toyota had the same thing, they preheated the car before each run because fuel cells really don't like freezing. Considering that they are actually selling these cars, they are not going to lie about real world performance. Independent testing have found fuel cells to work better than batteries in cold weather: https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/the-effect-of-cold-weather-on-electric-bus-range-fuel-cell-wins-a-study-by-cte/ https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/the-effect-of-cold-weat...
pasttense01 4y ago
He is 66 years old. This is a fairly normal retirement age, so it is hard to agree that he was replaced prematurely.
readonthegoapp 4y ago
I have mixed feelings on ecars but ultimately see them as a necessary evil And Toyota's recent announcements that they were seemingly going to put off ecar dev until we were all underwater was pretty incredible even knowing their hate for electric So this move is prob going to save millions of lives At least
CydeWeys 4y ago
It was flat-out corporate malpractice that he stuck with the hydrogen strategy for as long as he did. What a waste of time and money, and what an excellent way to fall far behind competitors for absolutely no reason. He should've been fired awhile ago.
- nvahalik 4y ago
  > fall far behind competitors Toyota is one of the most trusted brands across the world. Their cars have extremely high resale value and are generally known to have long usable lifespans. Hydrogen issue aside, they are (at least currently) not 'far behind' their competitors.
  - somethoughts 4y ago
    My speculative hot take on the reason that Toyota did not jump on the EV bandwagon and stuck with PHEV/Hydrogen is that much of it's operations are financed indirectly via low cost Japanese bank loans encouraged by Japanese government. These loans probably have an underlying perhaps unspoken component which nudges them toward business models which employ Japanese workers. The one thing that EVs require is an EV charger network to exist in the foreign countries that Toyota sells the cars to. Without an existing EV charger network, it becomes a chicken and the egg problem for Toyota since, as a Japanese company, it would likely face a difficult time getting financing to build EV charger networks in foreign countries. Hydrogen fuel theoretically would just be an adaption of the existing petrol gas station infrastructure so the existing players/gas station networks would just need to switch over. Now that ElectrifyAmerica is more "a thing", Toyota can start shifting strategies. VW and Tesla/US car brands could move faster since they were required (VW) or had home court advantage and government support (Tesla/US car brands) to finance the US EV networks. The Korean autos switched earlier as they were probably more hungry and had less to lose on ICE than the Japanese incumbents. There's also the game theoretical play that being the only major petrol based auto producer could lead to pricing power if the transition takes longer than expected.
    - jaybeavers 4y ago
eliaspro 4y ago
> It is not the first, nor the last, time that we see how a powerful CEO is replaced prematurely due to his bad relationship with the electric car. > > An already unstoppable trend that some are reluctant to accept, and that has cost the great executives of Ford, and Volkswagen, and now it has been the turn of Toyota. Wasn't it just the other way round at Volkswagen? Herbert Diess steered the heavy ship Volkswagen extremely aggressive towards electrification like no other company of of this size with clearly visible results. He was ousted due to major issues (delays, staffing, quality) with the software department (CARIAD) that is building a completely new software stack to be used for new cars of all Volkswagen brands and replaced with an e-fuel loving petrolhead, the former Porsche CEO Oliver Blume.
- _hypx 4y ago
  Yes, and it's likely that VW will shift away from their all-EV strategy. They are already investing in fuel cell trucks and e-fuels. In reality, EVs are just one step in a long chain of future changes in the transportation industry. People are too obsessed with the next step and forgetting about the steps afterwards.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  It seems like all the car companies are weak in software except Tesla, which is more of a software company that happens to also do hardware (cars). Not sure how Oliver Blume was an improvement. They are just going with what they know vs. what they need.
- danans 4y ago
  Yeah, I don't see how it's like post-electrification VW. Pre-electrification, yes VW had the blinders on, and acted, well, criminally. I hope VW pivoted in time to survive this transition. Minus the software issues, the ID.4 is an awesome EV - incredibly well built and premium feeling and drives absolutely great. The ID.Buzz is like a dream car for me. As for Toyota, the sheer amount of FUD and deception they have engaged in around EVs, topped off by the preposterous claim that hybrids are superior because they are "self-charging, has left me with little sympathy for them. However, they are still a massive force in the automotive world, and a great number of people trust them to make affordable and reliable cars, and more affordable EV options are what the world needs, not another monster electric SUV. Toyota has the manufacturing heft to deliver that, and to the extent that they do, I hope they stick around.
resuresu 4y ago
EVs aren’t selling in the US. No one wants them. They are prohibitively expensive for most and have terrible resell value because once the batteries die the car itself is essentially junk.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  Do you think you just step into your EV one morning and the drive train battery is just "dead"? Are you sure you're not conflating a high tech 500kg piece of technology to the crappy bargain bin 12V battery you have in your ICE car? The battery will degrade, that's how the laws of physics and chemistry work. But the degradation is perfectly predictable and actually (according to historical data) slower than expected. You can buy 10 year old Teslas with 80-85% battery capacity left. So instead of 450km you can only go for 360km before needing to charge. If you're a hardcore roadtripper who does 1000km+ every weekend just for fun, you can sell it and get a new one. But the average driver doesn't do even 100km per day, they won't care.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  This is exactly right. Also, gasoline cars aren't selling in the US either. No one wants them any more, because they're all buying uranium-powered cars.
- akmarinov 4y ago
  I mean when an engine of an ICE car dies, the car is essentially junk…
  - magicalhippo 4y ago
    Automatic transmission ain't cheap either.
  - ElijahLynn 4y ago
    Yup, just happened with our (ICE) 2016 Kia Sedona Minivan. The head gasket blew, had quotes from 6-10K to fix it. We sold it to an auto auction for 2K. It only had 150K miles on it and we had just paid it off. We couldn't just swap a new engine into it, too complex, too much to fix.
zthrowaway 4y ago
This fast paced transition doesn't sit right with me, still. I feel like people are turning a blind eye to the negative environmental impacts this is going to have. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/24/us-electric-vehicles-lithium-consequences-research https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/24/us-electric-...
- ericmay 4y ago
  The question is does this environmental havoc replace or lesson the current environmental havoc + military and political conflict over oil supplies (yes potential for rare earth or other material conflicts persist). As always though, this move is optimizing the wrong thing - we don’t need more efficient cars we need fewer cars. But nobody likes subtractive solutions.
  - MBCook 4y ago
    > we don’t need more efficient cars we need fewer cars I don’t think politically viable, despite being the real solution to the core problem.
  - hibikir 4y ago
    It's not a matter of subtractive solutions or not: It's that in a low-car environment, way too many people's real estate investments are worth near zero. How much of, say, Suburban Florida remains usable if we price cars high enough to make their use unadvisable? Entire subdivisions are worth basically zero. Same thing with commercial areas that are not really reachable on foot. Old US cities only became car centric through massive amounts of pain and hardship, which happened to hit people that were mostly politically disenfranchised. Reshaping in the other direction would involve a similar amount of hardship, but on people that vote. We can make it easier to increase density, but the kind of efforts that would make us not end up relying on EVs have such economic and political costs that we lack the state capacity to go there.
    - ericmay 4y ago
      > How much of, say, Suburban Florida remains usable if we price cars high enough to make their use unadvisable? Idk. How much remains usable if it’s under water? Should we let people in Florida tax the rest of the country for their road development? Can Florida afford to maintain and build the roads they want to build? > Old US cities only became car centric through massive amounts of pain and hardship, which happened to hit people that were mostly politically disenfranchised. Can you elaborate on this? How are you accounting for highway development that destroyed minority neighborhoods in this assessment?
DoneWithAllThat 4y ago
The site is obviously quite biased and there doesn’t appear to be a shred of evidence in it that this has anything to do with EV. It looks like a site heavily biased towards EV is just making baseless claims.
- grecy 4y ago
  https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota-ceo-akio-toyoda-steps-down-to-be-replaced-by-lexus-boss https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota-ceo-akio-toyoda-steps-d... "However, reports from Nikkei[1] and Reuters[2] attribute the decision to the automaker's slow response to a rapidly changing automotive industry, specifically the adoption of electric vehicles. " [1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Toyota-s-Akio-Toyoda-to-step-down-as-CEO-and-president https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Toyota-s-Akio-Toy... [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-president-akio-toyoda-become-chairman-2023-01-26/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=Daily-Briefing&utm_term=012623 https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota... and more https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/toyota-appoints-lexus-chief-as-ceo-to-replace-toyoda-1.1875073 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/toyota-appoints-lexus-chief-as-c... https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-replace-akio-toyoda-president-083329653.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAExLCfZKxFptBRkyoYfHY_0o_axUDCl38RK3rPfJzcAAz6sz16d4SGhckhu4aC8LgzT-BJSr0TuBEpeA6gY7Z_5g2wQk6io7WzXpTFiBcGc79C2d3jXzu5nfxN0dk1jHZtEPMX6y6Ti5m-OseTdwmiaITwZ_HtgwE8oEdXKbzf9a https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-replace-akio-toyoda...
ElijahLynn 4y ago
> This morning it has been confirmed that Akio Toyoda, grandson of the founder of Toyota and in command since 2009, will leave his position as head of the Japanese brand.
- cbrozefsky 4y ago
  The 97 yr old Shoichiro Toyoda's engram will be placed in his son Akio's body and he will return as the chairman of the board.
legitster 4y ago
This entire article is based on unsubstantiated conjecture and probably wrong. Koji Sato (his replacement) is currently head of Toyota's racing and luxury car divisions. Nothing about this move indicates it is specifically about EVs. I get that Toyota is still really late with an EV option, but their PHEV selection is still probably best in the industry and they can't make enough of them to keep up with demand.
- somethoughts 4y ago
  Yep - I'm generally a fan of the Toyota brand and hope for their continued success - but they definitely need to make more cars like the RAV4 Prime. If the dealer markups and lack of inventory on the RAV4 Prime continue it will definitely be a missed opportunity.
  - legitster 4y ago
    Same. They made their entire Sienna lineup go hybrid by default and the vans have been unobtanium ever since. I think the idea that they should start taking away resources from cars that are already beloved and selling well to (potentially) throw away their reputation on trust and reliability seems incredibly short sighted. And given that they are the number one seller of cars in the world, incremental improvements in fuel efficiency fleet wide seem like a much better use of their time than providing a gimmicky electric model just for California.

39 points by grecy 4y ago

Let's say it's 2027 and you've narrowed down your shortlist to a Tesla Model 3, a VW id.3 and a Toyota Corolla EV. The Model 3 has had 10 years to work out the kinks, the id.3 has had 5 and the Corolla EV is brand new. Which would you choose? Lots of people would pick the Corolla, expecting it to be the most reliable, well engineered and well built. Toyota can be late to the EV party and still succeed, a luxury other makers without their reputation and experience do not have. The b4zx is evidence against this thesis, but I don't think it invalidates it.

theshrike79 4y ago
The b4zx was so bad that nobody can figure out how they managed to miss the mark so badly. It's more expensive than others in the same category, it has worse range, no battery heating - or preheating, only two fast charges per day. And even the "fast" charging is at under 5kW levels if it's even close to 0 C outside. Why would I pay over 10k more for that instead of a Model Y or Ioniq 5?

theshrike79 4y ago

This is my standard set of questions for people who advocate hydrogen vehicles for personal use: 1: How much does it cost to run and operate a hydrogen refuelling station? As a reference: we have been building these since 1999, we should know this now and it should be 100% clear. 2: How many hydrogen cars can you refuel in a row? What happens when you reach the limit? 3: How is the hydrogen delivered, how often and how much does it cost? 4: Can hydrogen stations operate normally in northern winter conditions? 5: What is the normal operational age for hydrogen stations? 6: Where can I find a winter test for hydrogen vehicles? Cold starts from proper frozen conditions (-25C)

_hypx 4y ago
1 - Same as a CNG or LPG station 2 - Same as a CNG or LPG station 3 - Either via pipelines or tanker trucks. The former is cheaper, although for more remote stations the latter is more practical 4 - Yes 5 - Same as a CNG or LPG station 6 - Here is an example: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0371813EN/co2-free-driving-pleasure-in-all-weather-conditions:-the-bmw-ix5-hydrogen-in-final-winter-testing-close-to-the-arctic-circle?language=en https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T037181...
- theshrike79 4y ago
  1. Actual numbers and sources please? I'm not convinced that hydrogen storage has the same costs as CNG/LPG, it's a very different gas to store. 2. Actual numbers and sources please? 3. Who will construct and pay for these pipelines, since you can't use CNG/LPG pipes for hydrogen? 4. Actual sources please? 5. https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/german-city-to-retire-its-one-year-old-hydrogen-fuel-cell-buses-after-2-3m-filling-station-breaks-down/2-1-1375568 https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/german-city-to-ret... and https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-19/shell-closes-uk-hydrogen-filling-stations-as-evs-dominate https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-19/shell-clo... 6. Ahh yes, BMW press release about BMW testing a BMW car themselves. Totally neutral and unbiased. Toyota had the same thing, they preheated the car before each run because fuel cells really don't like freezing.
  - _hypx 4y ago
    Hydrogen works nearly exactly like CNG. People have created fantasy stories as if it was the blood from Xenomorphs. In reality, it's corrosiveness is pretty underwhelming. Actual issues related to corrosion or hydrogen embrittlement only happens after decades of exposure or in specific situations. As long as you avoid these specific scenarios and do proper maintenance, you do not have a problem. For instance, hydrogen can be made to flow through natural gas pipelines with only minor modifications: https://assets.siemens-energy.com/siemens/assets/api/uuid:3d4339dc-434e-4692-81a0-a55adbcaa92e/200915-whitepaper-h2-infrastructure-en.pdf?ste_sid=94d6fa2f436145177f5433c7969ec17c https://assets.siemens-energy.com/siemens/assets/api/uuid:3d... It can be extrapolated that fuel cell cars will similar in most aspects to CNG and LPG powered cars which also have to deal with pressurized gases. A lot of the anti-hydrogen articles are paid marketing from competing technologies. They are basically not stories at all. FUD is more accurate. > Ahh yes, BMW press release about BMW testing a BMW car themselves. Totally neutral and unbiased. Toyota had the same thing, they preheated the car before each run because fuel cells really don't like freezing. Considering that they are actually selling these cars, they are not going to lie about real world performance. Independent testing have found fuel cells to work better than batteries in cold weather: https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/the-effect-of-cold-weather-on-electric-bus-range-fuel-cell-wins-a-study-by-cte/ https://www.sustainable-bus.com/news/the-effect-of-cold-weat...

pasttense01 4y ago

He is 66 years old. This is a fairly normal retirement age, so it is hard to agree that he was replaced prematurely.

readonthegoapp 4y ago

I have mixed feelings on ecars but ultimately see them as a necessary evil And Toyota's recent announcements that they were seemingly going to put off ecar dev until we were all underwater was pretty incredible even knowing their hate for electric So this move is prob going to save millions of lives At least

CydeWeys 4y ago

It was flat-out corporate malpractice that he stuck with the hydrogen strategy for as long as he did. What a waste of time and money, and what an excellent way to fall far behind competitors for absolutely no reason. He should've been fired awhile ago.

nvahalik 4y ago
> fall far behind competitors Toyota is one of the most trusted brands across the world. Their cars have extremely high resale value and are generally known to have long usable lifespans. Hydrogen issue aside, they are (at least currently) not 'far behind' their competitors.
- somethoughts 4y ago
  My speculative hot take on the reason that Toyota did not jump on the EV bandwagon and stuck with PHEV/Hydrogen is that much of it's operations are financed indirectly via low cost Japanese bank loans encouraged by Japanese government. These loans probably have an underlying perhaps unspoken component which nudges them toward business models which employ Japanese workers. The one thing that EVs require is an EV charger network to exist in the foreign countries that Toyota sells the cars to. Without an existing EV charger network, it becomes a chicken and the egg problem for Toyota since, as a Japanese company, it would likely face a difficult time getting financing to build EV charger networks in foreign countries. Hydrogen fuel theoretically would just be an adaption of the existing petrol gas station infrastructure so the existing players/gas station networks would just need to switch over. Now that ElectrifyAmerica is more "a thing", Toyota can start shifting strategies. VW and Tesla/US car brands could move faster since they were required (VW) or had home court advantage and government support (Tesla/US car brands) to finance the US EV networks. The Korean autos switched earlier as they were probably more hungry and had less to lose on ICE than the Japanese incumbents. There's also the game theoretical play that being the only major petrol based auto producer could lead to pricing power if the transition takes longer than expected.
  - jaybeavers 4y ago

eliaspro 4y ago

> It is not the first, nor the last, time that we see how a powerful CEO is replaced prematurely due to his bad relationship with the electric car. > > An already unstoppable trend that some are reluctant to accept, and that has cost the great executives of Ford, and Volkswagen, and now it has been the turn of Toyota. Wasn't it just the other way round at Volkswagen? Herbert Diess steered the heavy ship Volkswagen extremely aggressive towards electrification like no other company of of this size with clearly visible results. He was ousted due to major issues (delays, staffing, quality) with the software department (CARIAD) that is building a completely new software stack to be used for new cars of all Volkswagen brands and replaced with an e-fuel loving petrolhead, the former Porsche CEO Oliver Blume.

_hypx 4y ago
Yes, and it's likely that VW will shift away from their all-EV strategy. They are already investing in fuel cell trucks and e-fuels. In reality, EVs are just one step in a long chain of future changes in the transportation industry. People are too obsessed with the next step and forgetting about the steps afterwards.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
It seems like all the car companies are weak in software except Tesla, which is more of a software company that happens to also do hardware (cars). Not sure how Oliver Blume was an improvement. They are just going with what they know vs. what they need.
danans 4y ago
Yeah, I don't see how it's like post-electrification VW. Pre-electrification, yes VW had the blinders on, and acted, well, criminally. I hope VW pivoted in time to survive this transition. Minus the software issues, the ID.4 is an awesome EV - incredibly well built and premium feeling and drives absolutely great. The ID.Buzz is like a dream car for me. As for Toyota, the sheer amount of FUD and deception they have engaged in around EVs, topped off by the preposterous claim that hybrids are superior because they are "self-charging, has left me with little sympathy for them. However, they are still a massive force in the automotive world, and a great number of people trust them to make affordable and reliable cars, and more affordable EV options are what the world needs, not another monster electric SUV. Toyota has the manufacturing heft to deliver that, and to the extent that they do, I hope they stick around.

resuresu 4y ago

EVs aren’t selling in the US. No one wants them. They are prohibitively expensive for most and have terrible resell value because once the batteries die the car itself is essentially junk.

theshrike79 4y ago
Do you think you just step into your EV one morning and the drive train battery is just "dead"? Are you sure you're not conflating a high tech 500kg piece of technology to the crappy bargain bin 12V battery you have in your ICE car? The battery will degrade, that's how the laws of physics and chemistry work. But the degradation is perfectly predictable and actually (according to historical data) slower than expected. You can buy 10 year old Teslas with 80-85% battery capacity left. So instead of 450km you can only go for 360km before needing to charge. If you're a hardcore roadtripper who does 1000km+ every weekend just for fun, you can sell it and get a new one. But the average driver doesn't do even 100km per day, they won't care.
midoridensha 4y ago
This is exactly right. Also, gasoline cars aren't selling in the US either. No one wants them any more, because they're all buying uranium-powered cars.
akmarinov 4y ago
I mean when an engine of an ICE car dies, the car is essentially junk…
- magicalhippo 4y ago
  Automatic transmission ain't cheap either.
- ElijahLynn 4y ago
  Yup, just happened with our (ICE) 2016 Kia Sedona Minivan. The head gasket blew, had quotes from 6-10K to fix it. We sold it to an auto auction for 2K. It only had 150K miles on it and we had just paid it off. We couldn't just swap a new engine into it, too complex, too much to fix.

zthrowaway 4y ago

This fast paced transition doesn't sit right with me, still. I feel like people are turning a blind eye to the negative environmental impacts this is going to have. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/24/us-electric-vehicles-lithium-consequences-research https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/24/us-electric-...

ericmay 4y ago
The question is does this environmental havoc replace or lesson the current environmental havoc + military and political conflict over oil supplies (yes potential for rare earth or other material conflicts persist). As always though, this move is optimizing the wrong thing - we don’t need more efficient cars we need fewer cars. But nobody likes subtractive solutions.
- MBCook 4y ago
  > we don’t need more efficient cars we need fewer cars I don’t think politically viable, despite being the real solution to the core problem.
- hibikir 4y ago
  It's not a matter of subtractive solutions or not: It's that in a low-car environment, way too many people's real estate investments are worth near zero. How much of, say, Suburban Florida remains usable if we price cars high enough to make their use unadvisable? Entire subdivisions are worth basically zero. Same thing with commercial areas that are not really reachable on foot. Old US cities only became car centric through massive amounts of pain and hardship, which happened to hit people that were mostly politically disenfranchised. Reshaping in the other direction would involve a similar amount of hardship, but on people that vote. We can make it easier to increase density, but the kind of efforts that would make us not end up relying on EVs have such economic and political costs that we lack the state capacity to go there.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    > How much of, say, Suburban Florida remains usable if we price cars high enough to make their use unadvisable? Idk. How much remains usable if it’s under water? Should we let people in Florida tax the rest of the country for their road development? Can Florida afford to maintain and build the roads they want to build? > Old US cities only became car centric through massive amounts of pain and hardship, which happened to hit people that were mostly politically disenfranchised. Can you elaborate on this? How are you accounting for highway development that destroyed minority neighborhoods in this assessment?

DoneWithAllThat 4y ago

The site is obviously quite biased and there doesn’t appear to be a shred of evidence in it that this has anything to do with EV. It looks like a site heavily biased towards EV is just making baseless claims.

grecy 4y ago
https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota-ceo-akio-toyoda-steps-down-to-be-replaced-by-lexus-boss https://www.thedrive.com/news/toyota-ceo-akio-toyoda-steps-d... "However, reports from Nikkei[1] and Reuters[2] attribute the decision to the automaker's slow response to a rapidly changing automotive industry, specifically the adoption of electric vehicles. " [1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Toyota-s-Akio-Toyoda-to-step-down-as-CEO-and-president https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Toyota-s-Akio-Toy... [2] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-president-akio-toyoda-become-chairman-2023-01-26/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=Daily-Briefing&utm_term=012623 https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota... and more https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/toyota-appoints-lexus-chief-as-ceo-to-replace-toyoda-1.1875073 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/toyota-appoints-lexus-chief-as-c... https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-replace-akio-toyoda-president-083329653.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAExLCfZKxFptBRkyoYfHY_0o_axUDCl38RK3rPfJzcAAz6sz16d4SGhckhu4aC8LgzT-BJSr0TuBEpeA6gY7Z_5g2wQk6io7WzXpTFiBcGc79C2d3jXzu5nfxN0dk1jHZtEPMX6y6Ti5m-OseTdwmiaITwZ_HtgwE8oEdXKbzf9a https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-replace-akio-toyoda...

ElijahLynn 4y ago

> This morning it has been confirmed that Akio Toyoda, grandson of the founder of Toyota and in command since 2009, will leave his position as head of the Japanese brand.

cbrozefsky 4y ago
The 97 yr old Shoichiro Toyoda's engram will be placed in his son Akio's body and he will return as the chairman of the board.

legitster 4y ago

This entire article is based on unsubstantiated conjecture and probably wrong. Koji Sato (his replacement) is currently head of Toyota's racing and luxury car divisions. Nothing about this move indicates it is specifically about EVs. I get that Toyota is still really late with an EV option, but their PHEV selection is still probably best in the industry and they can't make enough of them to keep up with demand.

somethoughts 4y ago
Yep - I'm generally a fan of the Toyota brand and hope for their continued success - but they definitely need to make more cars like the RAV4 Prime. If the dealer markups and lack of inventory on the RAV4 Prime continue it will definitely be a missed opportunity.
- legitster 4y ago
  Same. They made their entire Sienna lineup go hybrid by default and the vans have been unobtanium ever since. I think the idea that they should start taking away resources from cars that are already beloved and selling well to (potentially) throw away their reputation on trust and reliability seems incredibly short sighted. And given that they are the number one seller of cars in the world, incremental improvements in fuel efficiency fleet wide seem like a much better use of their time than providing a gimmicky electric model just for California.