35 ms·
Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage
- geocrasher 4y agoAnd then thousands of pilots checked Weather Underground's sister site, Weather Overground...
- brookst 4y agoNever understood why WU went after miners first.
- cheschire 4y agoUntapped market to network the canaries.
- selimthegrim 4y agoDon’t give Helium any more ideas.
- sitkack 4y agoYou Don’t Need A Weatherman To Know Which Way The Wind Blows
- cratermoon 4y agoBetter stay away from those that carry 'round a fire hose
- sitkack 4y agoFor those following along, these are lyrics from the Bob Dylan song that is the source of the name for both the Weather Underground website as well as the militant group, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground
- themaninthedark 4y agoMuch easier to predict the weather underground. Dark, damp. Once you build up credibility for being right, you can expand into other more difficult areas. If you keep predicting for the underground, then it will also help keep you correct average up.
- samdcbu 4y agoa VC told them to use a bottom-up TAM, so they started at the bottom and now they're here
- conorcleary 4y agoCondensation
- acomjean 4y agoits a 60's hippy pun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground
- chasd00 4y ago[flagged]
- CoastalCoder 4y agoI suspect that's not good enough when planning a flight.
- qbasic_forever 4y agoDoesn't work when you're flying through a cloud.
- jcutrell 4y agoThings I use as a pilot of a single engine piston: - Temp dew point spread - Barometric pressure - TAF / forecast - Wind shear - Freezing level - Cloud tops - Cloud level AGL - visibility measured in actual distance All of these things can’t be measured easily by a human. Visibility is probably the easiest, but can you tell me what the dew point is easily? If I use it, imagine the critical importance for airliners.
- flerchin 4y agoSENIOR DUTY METEOROLOGIST NWS ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE NWS NCEP CENTRAL OPERATIONS COLLEGE PARK MD 1120Z THU JAN 19 2023 ...METAR OUTAGE... AOMC reported that there is a metar outage going on...167 missing sites at last check. The FAA is investigating the issue.
- flanbiscuit 4y ago> 167 missing sites at last check. That seems like a lot but curious to know what percentage of their total sites this is. I think I found the full list here: https://www.aviationweather.gov/docs/metar/stations.txt https://www.aviationweather.gov/docs/metar/stations.txt This list is worldwide and I see no information about this outage being region specific so I'll assume it's worldwide. Seems like they have about 9,517 sites so this is about 1.75% of their sites worldwide
- daenney 4y agoYou should not assume it's world wide. Given "the FAA is investigating" and there's no reports of other countries it's reasonable to assume that this is limited to the US, or at least northern continental America. (The title of the submission is also "Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage")
- mvgoogler 4y ago> The title of the submission is also "Nationwide FAA weather reporting outage" Yeah, but the title is made up. There is noting in the official report about this being "nationwide". The report only states that there is a metar outage consisting of 167 stations. It doesn't provide any context on which stations are missing or how they are distributed. Adding "nationwide" to the title is pure FUD IMO.
- dylan604 4y agoif the outages are on the east coast and a flight from the west coast is preparing to fly to one of the east coast airports that are affected, how is this not nationwide?
- trollied 4y agoHas anything happened regarding IT staffing at the FAA recently? There was the NOTAM outage last week [1], and now this! [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34337158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34337158
- wiz21c 4y agoMaybe there's an ongoing cyber attack ? :-)
- bitxbitxbitcoin 4y agoThat isn’t being admitted to?
- idiotsecant 4y agoNope, just the regular old spending money on new projects that benefit the careers of powerful politicians but refusing to spend on maintenance attack.
- acdha 4y agoThe NOTAM system was apparently running on old SPARC hardware so I’d easily believe that they haven’t been given enough budget to hire engineers and are basically keeping the lights on. One peril of the government funding model is that it’s effective at shoveling money to contracting companies but not having skilled oversight, so you tend to see lots of big projects which founder under their own weight.
- 4y ago
- ajoseps 4y agohm is this going to affect flights?
- zackbloom 4y agoUnlike the NOTAM outage, a METAR outage will and should actually affect flights. Without weather at your destination it becomes impossible to know if it’s safe to land there. The forecasts (TAF) are actually used more in flight planning, but actual weather is very valuable while enroute, when not close enough to hear weather over the radio from the destination airport.
- teeray 4y agoUnrelated to aviation, but I actually find METARs and TAFs are useful for hiking and skiing. I use the altimeter settings for my altimeter when hiking, and knowing the altitude of cloud layers is useful to know what the visibility will be like on the mountain (you have to do a bit of math with the airport elevation and the mountain’s elevation, but hey—it works!).
- webdoodle 4y agoI like your idea of visibility a lot, and would like to know more. Are you using a barometric altimeter? I use one hiking, but mainly for dead reckoning using an USGS elevation map. I usually just set my altimeter using those maps.
- krisoft 4y agoI used METAR for running, or rather to say which days I'm allowed to not run. I noticed that when the day was long, and I was feeling tired and lazy it was a lot easier to find some excuse why not to run that day. This excuse was often the weather. But on the other hand I didn't want to say no matter the weather I must run, because that is obviously excessive. So I made up a simple "algorithm" to decide if the weather fits the minimums, and if it did I must go and run. And I choose to base it on the measurements from the METAR of the local airport.
- alhirzel 4y agoCool idea, what's your algorithm's decision criteria?
- SamPatt 4y agoSerious question: At what point does the failure of government services warrant the partial withholding of taxes? This isn't sufficient of course but when the FAA repeatedly demonstrates incompetence, when do we eventually just tell them no, you can't have any more of my money, you're obviously wasting it and making us worse off?
- ck2 4y agoJust swap civil services budget with military budget. Imagine what NASA would do in ten years with Pentagon's budget swapped.
- drstewart 4y agoDone. NASA's budget is now $0 though, since the military budget all went to Medicare with nothing left to spare for anything else. Along with the FAA and every other government department.
- nerdponx 4y agoCitation needed?
- drstewart 4y agoYou need me to Google Medicare budget and defense budget for you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States) >In 2020, US federal government spending on Medicare was $776.2 billion.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_De... >Annual budget US$721.5 billion (FY2020)[2] Hopefully, I won't need a citation that $776 > $721
- nerdponx 4y agoYour source doesn't support your assertion: > NASA's budget is now $0 though, since the military budget all went to Medicare with nothing left to spare for anything else. Along with the FAA and every other government department.
- flandish 4y agoJust gotta ask: Southwest, NOTAM, and now this… Is some group pen-testing?
- scrumper 4y agoOnce is happenstance, twice coincidence, three times is enemy action. It could be Russia, Iran, China, climate direct action groups (probably not y'all qaeda though). Or maybe it's just ancient software running on older hardware that's starting to fall over after a couple years of lighter loads and a sudden increase in complexity and weirdness. Everything is breaking at the moment.
- Vecr 4y agoBy "y'all qaeda" you mean the boojahideen, not actual Al-Qaeda?
- scrumper 4y agoYes exactly, the gravy seals.
- kfkfldo 4y ago[flagged]
- Ancapistani 4y agoMeal Team Six?
- fuzzylightbulb 4y agoAh yes, the Yee-Hawdists. Vanilla ISIS. Banana Republicans. Meal Team 6. Walmartyrs. Classic buffoonery. Until it's not.
- qbasic_forever 4y agoThere's also the world's biggest viral pandemic that's still ongoing and currently in a post-holiday peak where many people are out sick...
- pookha 4y ago[flagged]
- justapassenger 4y agoThat’s possible. But also it’s possible that decades of underinvestment are catching up.
- yamtaddle 4y agoIDK about the Feds but every contact I have in state government and local government & public functions indicates that both have been shoved from "slowly deteriorating" to "brink of collapse of ability to provide basic service" by the shock of the Covid years and recent wage inflation (which neither's even come close to keeping up with). All were threadbare as hell already, so it was easy for Covid to tear some outright holes.
- idiotsecant 4y agoHow do we go about getting entropy placed in the terrorist watch list? Maybe then we could fix some bridges and roads too.
- mvgoogler 4y agoFull list of reporting stations is here: https://www.aviationweather.gov/docs/metar/stations.txt https://www.aviationweather.gov/docs/metar/stations.txt The report is that 167 are missing. That would be roughly 5% of US stations or 0.2% of worldwide stations. I was able to look up meters for airports that I'm familiar with. https://www.aviationweather.gov/metar https://www.aviationweather.gov/metar So, it is real but far from a total collapse of the system.
- armatav 4y ago[flagged]
- Zaskoda 4y agoCould it be the solar flare? https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2023/01/16/the-sun-is-suddenly-spitting-x-class-solar-flares-why-its-happening-and-what-it-means/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2023/01/16/th...
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y agoOne thing though, these types of things can't be helpful to the political future of Pete Buttigieg. Between airline issues and rail strikes and shipping/port issues, he has been very politically unlucky.
- blktiger 4y agoNot necessarily, if he gets a lot of airtime and is seen as identifying and fixing problems he could get a real big boost. Most of the problems the Transportation Secretary has to deal with are the fault of aging systems, a limited budget from congress, etc.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago> if he gets a lot of airtime and is seen as identifying and fixing problems he could get a real big boost. The thing is he is not. Even with the negotiations over the railroad strike, he was not talked about. It was Joe Biden in the news.
- ceejayoz 4y agoThat's fairly normal. Secretaries who become The Story tend to find that's not a good spot, even if it's for positive reasons. Buttigieg's biggest asset is likely his ability to get on Fox News for an interview and steamroller over their usual rhetorical tactics.
- w10-1 4y agoThe outage seems to be in receiving reports from weather stations (primarily airports). When arriving at an airport, a pilot is required to confirm they have the latest METAR information for the site. It's presumed negligence when pilots don't know the weather. This is because weather is the #1 environmental factor in accidents. But the actual use of weather in flying (esp. for commercial flights) is not via METAR but via in-cockpit radar. This is an FAA-sponsored service, but it's unclear if that's affected. So it seems to be more administrative than safety, but just as disabling.
- xxpor 4y agoDoes in cockpit radar actually get you on the ground pressure?
- jaywalk 4y agoNo, of course not. But pilots aren't going to aviationweather.gov while they're flying, either. They get that info from the controller or ATIS.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoNo doubt. Inflight Wi-Fi is absurdly expensive. No way they’re paying for it.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y agoI think its $8 a flight on Alaska. Doesn't seem that outlandish.
- xxpor 4y agoMaybe I misunderstand what was actually down then. It was just the website, not the actual weather reports that ATC has access to?
- mwint 4y agoNo, those come from ground reporting stations which feed into a whole bunch of sources - online stuff will give it to you including Foreflight, or just key up the ATIS and listen for a few seconds. Or ask a controller.
- gnarbarian 4y agoMETARs are perpetually down. one funny thing about them, they are deemed to be a critical service which requires something like 99.99% uptime to be in compliance with the FAA regulations governing service delivery. to get around this, a METAR is considered up as long as it has power, regardless as to whether it itsproducing data or providing accurate readings. the technology was certified and frozen in the 90s. many of these devices are running windows 3.1 for networking! they cost more than 2 million dollars a piece to install (at least around here) and require 4 trips per year to calibrate. since there was little incentive and herculean constraints for the team in charge of METARs to improve the situation, another team at the FAA decided to create their own non certified version. to be installed in places that can't afford a METAR. They were able to build a better system using the same hardware but updated software for a hardware cost of $80k, 250k installed. this system only needs calibration once every 2 years. so it represents about a 1/10 cost of install and 1/8 cost of maintenance. naturally this pissed off some people. I'm not going to get into internal politics beyond saying the project is currently frozen until a number of large efforts imposed on the program are completed. I believe it will still eventually come out because the cat is out of the bag and there are many groups desperate for a better alternative.
- binkHN 4y ago> many of these devices are running windows 3.1 for networking! Woah. Really?
- mayormcmatt 4y agoI'm very interested in this after reading your account, but couldn't find additional information online. Do you have sources we could look at?
- gnarbarian 4y agohttps://medium.com/faa/faa-testing-new-system-to-increase-weather-information-to-alaska-pilots-67301aa329b3 https://medium.com/faa/faa-testing-new-system-to-increase-we... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://fpaw.aero/sites/default/files/97/reiche.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjUxdyup9T8AhVQAzQIHaS6AIsQFnoECBkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3c_uEhbAfJn1VWoYi9C0jj https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...
- lamontcg 4y agoUh oh, I've got a flight in just under 4 hours... There doesn't seem to be any flight delays though or notices on the airport website...
- jmartens 4y agoSomeone sell them a modern status page!