8 ms·
Coinbase halts operations in Japan
- colesantiago 4y agoGood. I don't understand why crypto is as big as it is, it only serves as an enormous grift. I only hope for more exchanges to fail, (Binance, Bitfinex, Kucoin, Huobi, Crypto.com, Kraken, etc) The recent take down of an exchange by the DOJ got me excited that this is finally going to take down crypto prices completely and that everyone will start to forget about them and move on. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cryptocurrency-exchange-charged-processing-over-700-million https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr...
- gggggg5 4y ago>https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cryptocurrency-exchange-charged-processing-over-700-million https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr... Bitzlato, a no-KYC exchange that has never been mentioned on HN before this DoJ announcement. Bitzlato has also essentially never been discussed on reddit, only included in some lists of no-KYC exchanges. Big whoop.
- kerpotgh 4y ago[dead]
- 9tacos 4y agoI’d like to see this technological scourge wiped out.
- sabujp 4y agoyou'd like to see consensus algorithms wiped out? https://appinventiv.com/blog/blockchain-consensus-algorithms-guide https://appinventiv.com/blog/blockchain-consensus-algorithms...
- pavlov 4y agoThat’s like saying: “Oh, you think multi-level marketing shouldn’t exist? It’s a form of storytelling so apparently you want to destroy all stories, you mean old culture-hater and book-burner.”
- dodslaser 4y agoAlso, do cryptobros really believe they invented consensus algorithms as a concept?
- rsynnott 4y agoSome of them seem to believe they invented _cryptography_, so, well, probably. I've seen crypto people genuinely convinced that it is impossible to sign something without the Almighty Blockchain providing its blessing.
- lazzlazzlazz 4y agoAcademics have a lot of positive things to say about crypto research.[1],[2],[3] [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfsSV7ni2ZM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfsSV7ni2ZM [2]: https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/21/a16z-debuts-new-crypto-research-team-led-by-columbia-stanford-researchers/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/21/a16z-debuts-new-crypto-res... [3]: https://cs251.stanford.edu https://cs251.stanford.edu
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago> Russian national who resides in Shenzhen, People’s Republic of China > arrested last night in Miami Arrested while traveling in the US?
- jnsaff2 4y agoUS is a funny place, you can't transfer from one international flight to another without entering the country. So flying from UK to Mexico with a stop in Miami will involve immigration and all the jazz in Miami (including the need for a visa if your passport normally requires it). This is usually not the case in Europe. You stay in the non-schengen transfer zone and walk from one gate to another.
- khuey 4y agoEven without formal immigration controls for transfer passengers I'm sure the European authorities are quite capable of consulting the flight manifests and arresting you in transit if they desire.
- Scoundreller 4y agoAnd if ETIAS ever goes live, they’ll be pre-clearing just about everyone before they get on the plane.
- kennyloginz 4y agoMuch of Coinbase’s operations are located in Miami. If I recall correctly, this individual has been residing in Miami for ~ a year….
- tbonesteaks 4y agoWhat’s the reason for you thinking it’s an enormous grift? I ask as someone who has read enough to feel it is useful and have a hard wallet with some bitcoin (well not a full bitcoin) but I am not into it enough to do anything stupid or evangelize it to others. So, you feeling the whole thing is a grift, I would really like to know if I’m missing something.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y agoIt's been in vogue for a couple months. The meta issue is that it lost a ton of value as a store. But so did many many stocks. Idk percentage wise how many companies lost a greater percent of their stock value than Bitcoin has in the past year, but we don't call them grifts. I think digital assets and coins are a pretty neat technology, much of the last bubble was solutions looking for problems. But it's how it goes.
- tpxl 4y ago> Idk percentage wise how many companies lost a greater percent of their stock value than Bitcoin has in the past year, but we don't call them grifts. Companies generally do other things besides being a vehicle for speculation.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y agoI mean, so do digital assets. There is plenty of bullshit out there, but when Nikola had a market cap of 14 billion based on someone pushing a hollowed out semi truck down a hill, is that radically different? I don't see it as radically different. And Nikola still has a market cap of 1 billion. The idea of digital assets, of trustless contracts, its still very very interesting to me. That a bubble formed and popped is more of a 'well of course it would' result to me than something to be feared. And maybe someday Nikola solves the truck thing and dominates shipping. I don't know. I think they whining about coins being a vehicle for speculation is puritanical hand wringing. Especially when it comes from the left and is focused on how people, who were quite literally engaged in speculation, lost money.
- 4y ago
- brutusborn 4y agoIt's used because it solves a problem: 'trustless' transfer of value (in that you trust the network and not a centralized authority). It's 'big' because people who don't have this problem speculate on Crypto, even if they don't need trustless transfer of value. How else would I pay a cybercriminal without Crypto? I ask this in good faith, I genuinely don't know of any other methods. Unfortunately the current method uses lots of resources, which I'm guessing is why you hate it so much. I'm all for better alternatives, but what are they?
- jnsaff2 4y agoHow big is the 'trustless' part of the ecosystem? 5%? 1%? Most of the speculation happens on centralized exchanges which very much involves (completely unjustified) trust.
- brutusborn 4y agoFor bitcoin, this site suggests ~90% (2 million bitcoin on exchanges vs 20 million in circulation) https://www.coinglass.com/Balance https://www.coinglass.com/Balance
- notafraudster 4y agoWikipedia tells me there are in fact a hair under 19 million Bitcoin minted. I am willing to believe this site is getting the large exchange component right, or at least conservatively right (conservative in that it's unlikely to be claiming coins that don't exist, but it's possible exchanges have additional coins not listed, and it's possible there are other exchanges not listed). Googling, it seems that the best estimates seem to indicate between 2 and 4 million Bitcoin are permanently lost (lost keys, known hardware failures of failed wallets, unclear if this counts Satoshi's million bitcoins or not). This estimate [0] by an analysis firm who appears to be broadly pro-crypto suggests 3 million lost, and that ~14.5 million BTC are "illiquid". Illiquid obviously doesn't mean lost Illiquid doesn't mean lost, but it suggests something to me about the current conversation. If only ~4.5 million BTC are even a little bit liquid, then it's fair to say that at least half the engagement with BTC in balance terms is on exchanges, and probably more considering velocity of money. Not the grandparent's claim of 99%, but also not your claim of 10%. At the very least, not an obviously settled question. [0] https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-liquid-supply/ https://insights.glassnode.com/bitcoin-liquid-supply/
- yieldcrv 4y ago> https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-and-majority-owner-cr... Oh no not Bitzlato! /s I can't believe you fell for that, DOJ is the only grifter here. They actually did the FUD pre-announcement and for an exchange nobody ever heard of.
- colesantiago 4y agoDid you already forget about FTX? Don't you think that this holds as a warning for other much bigger exchanges? --- To answer your comments: > No I don’t and what does todays announcement have to do with FTX? Both were operating offshore and the DOJ took action on both of them. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ftx-founder-indicted-fraud-money-laundering-and-campaign-finance-offenses https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ftx-founder-indicted-fraud-mo... > while failing to protect anybody from mismanaged and systemically important exchanges. Doesn't matter if it is big or small, an exchange is an exchange, especially one that isn't regulated or in the US. Again, I see this as a warning, don't let the wrath of the DOJ on a small exchange fool you into thinking nothing will happen to other exchanges.
- yieldcrv 4y agoNo I don’t and what does todays announcement have to do with FTX? Aside from showing that the US government is proactive at investigating irrelevant exchanges while failing to protect anybody from mismanaged and systemically important exchanges.
- mrguyorama 4y agoAlways funny how crypto-bros espouse the joys of being free from government regulation while also whining that government regulation didn't protect them from crypto grifters.
- yieldcrv 4y agoIs that what you read? I read that people keep using mismanaged companies that happen to broker crypto assets, and then I read you conflate that with "crypto". The best analogy to me is seeing a hardhat incident at a construction company, and deciding that "buildings" are a flawed concept, along with everyone that uses them, and perhaps lumber as well. When you should just criticize the construction company.
- calr 4y agoIs it correct to suspect that there are fixed costs for operating in different markets, and they aren’t breaking even in Japan?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tasuki 4y agoYou're correct. They aren't breaking even anywhere, so presumably they also aren't breaking even in Japan.
- Kukumber 4y agohttps://www.ycombinator.com/companies/coinbase https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/coinbase IPO: $250 and peaked at $429 Today: $50 [1] That's a pretty hard reality check.. building a business and raising a lot of money selling ponzi schemes, that was a hell of an idea to begin with To finish with 10x less volume than Binance [2] [1] - https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/COIN/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/COIN/ [2] - https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/ https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/
- pavlov 4y agoTurns out it’s hard to attract enough volume when you’re operating by the book in an unregulated market where everyone else is playing against the customers on their money, often outright stealing it.
- miguelazo 4y agoBut also not surprising given that 95% of the use cases are totally illegitimate.
- rahen 4y agoOnly about 0.15% of crypto transactions last year were illicit, compared to 5% with fiat money. Cash is by far the pinnacle of "crime money", definitely not cryptos. https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2022-crypto-crime-report-introduction/ https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/2022-crypto-crime-repor...
- maytc 4y agoCoinbase Japan didn't last 1.5 years. They officially entered Japan around August 2021. https://www.coinbase.com/blog/coinbase-launches-in-japan https://www.coinbase.com/blog/coinbase-launches-in-japan
- blntechie 4y agoProbably India must be their short lived launch. They did a launch party and announcement but their fiat payment integration was pulled by the central bank and they never actually launched.
- captn3m0 4y agoIt was hilarious. Coinbase called it was due to “informal pressure from the regulator”. It’s quite likely, they never had a clear bank partner in India, merely a third party fintech company as a proxy. It’s quite unlikely a large bank will take a stance on crypto, especially as public opinion has shifted now, with many calling RBI’s stance (anti-crypto) exceptionally good in hindsight. https://www.cnbctv18.com/cryptocurrency/coinbase-ceo-says-exited-india-crypto-market-in-three-days-due-to-informal-pressure-from-rbi-but-will-return-13446072.htm https://www.cnbctv18.com/cryptocurrency/coinbase-ceo-says-ex...
- digianarchist 4y agoPreviously announced: https://news.bitcoin.com/coinbase-shutting-down-most-crypto-services-in-japan-after-series-of-job-cuts-globally/ https://news.bitcoin.com/coinbase-shutting-down-most-crypto-...
- paulpauper 4y agoTiny market. I guess is was more trouble than it's worth
- tcmb 4y agoJapan has the third-largest economy in the world by nominal GDP, can you explain how this is a tiny market?
- readthenotes1 4y agono need to sneak money out of the country?
- Hamuko 4y agoIs the crypto market that interesting in Japan after Mt. Gox exploded so gloriously there?
- earnesti 4y agoI think it is a big market, but companies coming from outside rarely have big success in Japan. The local exchanges will get the customers.
- voz_ 4y agoAn extremely unethical company, in an extremely unethical space. I wish them unwell. Looking forward to the grift failing.
- Danieru 4y agoThe context is that the Japanese regulator, FSA (Financial Services Agency) which regulates Banks, Cyrpto, and Brokerages is scary. Notice how Coinbases statement is quick to reassure no Japanese assets have been comingled. Not Americans assets, or anyone else. Coinbase is careful to only mention Japanese assets. The FSA regulated FTX Japan is the only regional FTX moving forward with returning depositor's assets. FTX US's status is disputed, certainly not issuing a timeline. The collapse of Mt. Gox pushed the FSA to heavily regulate crypto. Of course that means an entity like Coinbase must consider not just the cost of compliance, but also the risk that if they steal customer funds executives can go to jail. Costs are fine, investors bear that. But clearly Coinbases executives most dislike the whole "FSA will haul you into jail for questioning when you loss customer money" most. Hence this announcement. At this point any exchange avoiding FSA regulation is a giant red flag with bonus red siren.
- SkyMarshal 4y ago> Not Americans assets, or anyone else. Coinbase is careful to only mention Japanese assets. Fwiw, Brian Armstrong clearly asserts in this recent interview that Coinbase assets in general are not commingled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dueFaHFulVA&t=3m35s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dueFaHFulVA&t=3m35s There's no evasive language or weasel words or anything like that, it's a straight up commitment, backed by the fact that Coinbase is a public company and subject to that level of auditing, transparency, and scrutiny.
- bmitc 4y agoThanks for the context on the FSA. I was unaware of Japan’s regulation stance.
- Animats 4y ago> At this point any exchange avoiding FSA regulation is a giant red flag with bonus red siren. Yes. No crypto exchange can make money without either charging fees or ripping off the customers. The less legitimate ones just steal the customers' money. The more legitimate ones try to steer the customers into buying financial products profitable to the seller. Useful rule of thumb: any financial product where they call or advertise to you is no good. If it was good, smart money would be seeking it out and buying it.
- dheera 4y agoJust use a VPN. Coinbase doesn't have a right to know where you are anyway, you have a right to live a distributed, cloud-based existence on the planet.
- TheDong 4y agoIsn't coinbase subject to KYC laws? Is there some region you can VPN to where coinbase won't require some form of legal identification before allowing you to withdraw any funds?
- tpxl 4y agoIIRC one of the exchanges (might have been Bitstamp or Binance) let me withdraw some crypto assets with no KYC. I accidentally made two accounts and deposited on both, then when doing KYC they refused to approve the second account, as you can only have one per their terms of service. Support advised me to just withdraw crypto assets from the unverified account to the verified one.
- latchkey 4y agoLast time I looked, there were withdraw limits on non-KYC'd accounts. Anything of quantity gets immediately locked down.
- oefrha 4y agoThese days Coinbase (at least Coinbase U.S.) requires a frigging passport/driver’s license. I still have a small amount of coins locked up there since I don’t intend to give them my ID. Not a big loss since ideologically I don’t intend to touch crypto again anyway. Good luck using a VPN for photo ID.
- thiscatis 4y agoI think the Coinbase execs watched the Carlos Ghosn Netflix docu over Christmas break and nope’d out.
- Scoundreller 4y agoIs there a shortage of large musical instrument containers?
- favflam 4y agoWithout 20x margin trading, you can only be profitable running a spot exchange if you are in the top 3. Everyone below the top 3 has been operating in the red. Even the exchange that Binance bought has been operating in the red for years. You cannot run a fully compliant exchange with trading, AML/KYC, and custody under one roof and be profitable. The IT controls and operational costs are too much. Moreover, there are not enough regulators in Japan with IT system experience to actually vet companies wanting to enter the market (see https://www.ft.com/content/75a05077-6ac8-4365-a8c5-28fc8928b505 https://www.ft.com/content/75a05077-6ac8-4365-a8c5-28fc8928b... ). The salary differential between a civil servant and an IT systems auditor is really big. Companies, even if compliant, have to wait a long time to get their application process inspected. It took Coinbase 3 years to enter the Japan, which is quite bad. I think the future will be splitting up the concept of exchange. I think only stable coin issuers will survive. You issue stable coins then let customers trade on DEXs. Stable coin issuers only deal with AML and some KYC. Since issuers can remotely freeze ETH addresses, AML is relatively easy as long as regulators don't be come too anal (unlike EU MiCA and FATF travel rule).