6 ms·

ZSWatch – Open-source Zephyr-based smartwatch

181 points by _Microft 4y ago

amelius 4y ago
This guy should seriously consider going to a CNC shop for the case.
- CuriousCosmic 4y ago
  While I'd generally agree, the README even says that the casing and dock are both in the middle of being redesigned. No point paying out for CNC metal when you can churn out a $1 print every day or two and make changes each step of the way. Maybe when the design is stable it'd be worth it but definitely not right now.
wayvey 4y ago
I'd probably buy one just because of how polished it is while still being DIY and open source. I don't really have the resources to make one myself at the moment. Would love to tinker with one of these, especially the software side. Great project!
- Jakkra 4y ago
  Keep an eye out, my next version will be easier to build. We'll see if I can manage to get a small batch built that sell.
omershapira 4y ago
Whenever someone shows a labor-of-love working demo of a wearable, SOC, OS, shell, circuit, power and all, I'm reminded that there are so many ways to make to make this happen nowadays, there's no shortage of ways to reproduce these ideas at moderate scale and budget, and yet for some reason there are no fashion watches or flip-phones today. Sensorwatch [1] is the closest I could think of. I would _really_ love to see a fashion watch brand do BLE sync on a device and display something low attention demand on the 7-segment or matrix display. Casio and their likes managed to cram impressive functionality into featurewatches (is that a term?) in the 80s, and those things were gorgeous looking, and demanding very little unwarranted attention. we_have_to_go_back.gif edit: new RTOS watch is incredible, this rant is orthogonal. [1] https://www.sensorwatch.net https://www.sensorwatch.net
- ofrzeta 4y ago
  Sensorwatch looks nice. However I just recently learned that the Casio F-91W (also worn by US president Obama) has become known as the “Terrorist Watch" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F-91W#Usage_in_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F-91W#Usage_in_terrorism). And allegedly wearing it would put you under scrutiny of US immigration / homeland security agencies. Replacing the board would not exactly help in that situation I guess :) Then again you could probably travel the rest of the world with it without problems.
  - kramerger 4y ago
    > According to secret documents [...] released by The Guardian, "the Casio F-91W digital watch was declared to be 'the sign of al-Qaeda' and a contributing factor to continued detention of prisoners by the analysts stationed at Guantanamo Bay Where does homeland security find these security analysts? UFO conspiracy conventions? Guilde of unemployed fortune tellers?
    - sofixa 4y ago
      Probably the CIA. Remember when they kidnapped and then tortured a bunch of people for bogus reasons (he has the same name/watch as a terrorist, waterboarding it is!)? And the people involved not only didn't go to jail, but got promotions (is the head of the CIA still the one that had a major part in the torture program and destroyed evidence about it?).
    - dsr_ 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats "The Men Who Stare at Goats (2004) is a non-fiction work by Jon Ronson concerning the U.S. Army's exploration of New Age concepts and the potential military applications of the paranormal. The title refers to attempts to kill goats by staring at them and stopping their hearts" Or to answer your sarcastic question with a horrifying answer: yes, essentially.
  - slim 4y ago
    You make it sound like a negative, it's cool on my book to wear a watch that would make you theoretically a target for a stupid agent. Especially since there's no obligation for you to wear it for traveling to US.
xrd 4y ago
It's looks so interesting, but: No GPS. My BangleJS has GPS but it is really tricky to get it synchronized with the satellites. I go for a run and then check the data and it's missing half of it because it couldn't pull the updates. AsteroidOS is cool but none of the watches really work well. I have a recent Samsung watch and the battery life is poor enough that I'm always forgetting to charge it. Sorry for the buts. This is a really cool project, I just am surprised there isn't a perfect smart watch that's open source. Or even a closed source watch that is hackable.
- DoktorDelta 4y ago
  PineTime might get there one day
- Humpelstilzchen 4y ago
  There are apps to download the AGPS-data to the Bangle.
  - xrd 4y ago
    I've used those but the instructions aren't clear to me and I'm not always sure that it is synchronized. Hopefully it is just a software issue but it is evident that getting GPS data is not just a matter of connecting to a satellite, there is some preparation the device has to do before it is in a position to get the connection, and that can easily fail.
    - Humpelstilzchen 4y ago
      AGPS data just enables the Watch to get a position in a few seconds. It can get the information (almanac) from the satellites but this takes several minutes of constant direct view to clear sky. Which of the agps apps did you try? https://banglejs.com/apps/?q=agps https://banglejs.com/apps/?q=agps So far I only have used the Browser based "Assisted GPS Updater (AGPS)" one and so far have no issues.
      - xrd 4y ago
mdaniel 4y ago
Does anyone have a rough idea how much something like this would run in quantity=1? I was surprised there wasn't a BOM, which I thought was standard for open source hardware like that I would expect the display (at $5 +s/h) would dominate the cost, but the processor and ram could, too, if it's like building a PC
- bloggie 4y ago
  nrf52 - $7 Display - $5 Accel - $3 Pulse ox - $12 Haptic driver - $1 Haptic motor - $1 spi flash - $2 Battery charger - $5 Battery LVC - $2 Battery - $3 Buttons - $3 Passives and such - $10 PCB - $25 Total - $79 Prices from octopart and some quick guessing, shipping not included. PCB would be the first to come down in price with even a small quantity, $25 is probably an underestimation with qty=1. Passives and friends can also go up quickly depending on design. There is also an SMT antenna present that could cost a few bucks.
  - _Microft 4y ago
    JLCPCB should still have special offers for 4-layer PCBs up to 50mm tall and wide. It might be that you can get five boards made for less than 10€/$. I’ll check later. Edit: yes, $2 for five pieces of 6-layer, 1.2mm thickness PCBs with ENIG surface finish. Unbelievable, isn’t it? 4-layer, 0.8mm, are possible for a few dollars more if thickness matters a lot (the finish will only be lead-free HASL, though).
  - Jakkra 4y ago
    Creator here, you are not far off. I should share bom with prices, will do that on github.
- crote 4y ago
  You can just export the BOM from the KiCad source files. No need to commit what is essentially a build artifact to the source repo ;-)
pledess 4y ago
I'd wear one if it were "Zephyr-based" in two ways rather than just one: https://github.com/mit-athena/libzephyr/blob/7f1981c62e9d381545d4dc9e6d0e01c98b68b3ad/clients/zleave/zleave.c#L247 https://github.com/mit-athena/libzephyr/blob/7f1981c62e9d381...
Narishma 4y ago
Why is the UI so sluggish?
- crote 4y ago
  It is completely custom code for a DIY project. Adding more features is usually a priority over making the UI smoother - especially if you are literally the only one using it.
  - zokier 4y ago
    Well, the UI is apparently based on this project https://lvgl.io/ https://lvgl.io/ which seems like its intended for this sort of purpose, so I think the question of sluggishness is valid.
- Jakkra 4y ago
  Creator here, Because the MCU is not very powerful. https://www.nordicsemi.com/products/nrf52833 https://www.nordicsemi.com/products/nrf52833 have limited RAM so I cannot flush more than 10% of the screen at a time
crote 4y ago
Wow, this looks really good! It already seems reasonably close to commercially available options, while still being extremely hackable. I do wonder what the battery life is. That pretty much makes or breaks it actually being a smart watch rather than a cool toy to hack on.
- Jakkra 4y ago
  Hi, creator here did not know it was shared on hacker news until someone sent me an email. Battery life is one day with screen always on and about two without. I designed it so that it should have a week battery life with screen not always on, but I have some hw bug so there are some current leak causing only two days life. So I use it every day.
  - was_a_dev 4y ago
    Is the HW bug known, or likely known? Any possibly soft-fixes via firmware?
    - Jakkra 4y ago
      I have not debugged it much, suspect hw as I tried a few sw things without success. But could be sw fix. Anyway I'll make a new revision, this current one is a bit limiting due to the MCU and one minor hw bug that needs manual rework of the pcbs.
      - was_a_dev 4y ago
        Awesome. I'll keep an eye on this!
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    Imagine putting a transflective screen on it, then. Always on and a week of battery life.
squarefoot 4y ago
Very beautiful. Although I haven't worn wrist watches for decades, I'd be tempted to buy one just for tinkering.
nix23 4y ago
I am a bit sad it's not RTEMS, however really nice project!!!

181 points by _Microft 4y ago

amelius 4y ago

This guy should seriously consider going to a CNC shop for the case.

CuriousCosmic 4y ago
While I'd generally agree, the README even says that the casing and dock are both in the middle of being redesigned. No point paying out for CNC metal when you can churn out a $1 print every day or two and make changes each step of the way. Maybe when the design is stable it'd be worth it but definitely not right now.

wayvey 4y ago

I'd probably buy one just because of how polished it is while still being DIY and open source. I don't really have the resources to make one myself at the moment. Would love to tinker with one of these, especially the software side. Great project!

Jakkra 4y ago
Keep an eye out, my next version will be easier to build. We'll see if I can manage to get a small batch built that sell.

omershapira 4y ago

Whenever someone shows a labor-of-love working demo of a wearable, SOC, OS, shell, circuit, power and all, I'm reminded that there are so many ways to make to make this happen nowadays, there's no shortage of ways to reproduce these ideas at moderate scale and budget, and yet for some reason there are no fashion watches or flip-phones today. Sensorwatch [1] is the closest I could think of. I would _really_ love to see a fashion watch brand do BLE sync on a device and display something low attention demand on the 7-segment or matrix display. Casio and their likes managed to cram impressive functionality into featurewatches (is that a term?) in the 80s, and those things were gorgeous looking, and demanding very little unwarranted attention. we_have_to_go_back.gif edit: new RTOS watch is incredible, this rant is orthogonal. [1] https://www.sensorwatch.net https://www.sensorwatch.net

ofrzeta 4y ago
Sensorwatch looks nice. However I just recently learned that the Casio F-91W (also worn by US president Obama) has become known as the “Terrorist Watch" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F-91W#Usage_in_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_F-91W#Usage_in_terrorism). And allegedly wearing it would put you under scrutiny of US immigration / homeland security agencies. Replacing the board would not exactly help in that situation I guess :) Then again you could probably travel the rest of the world with it without problems.
- kramerger 4y ago
  > According to secret documents [...] released by The Guardian, "the Casio F-91W digital watch was declared to be 'the sign of al-Qaeda' and a contributing factor to continued detention of prisoners by the analysts stationed at Guantanamo Bay Where does homeland security find these security analysts? UFO conspiracy conventions? Guilde of unemployed fortune tellers?
  - sofixa 4y ago
    Probably the CIA. Remember when they kidnapped and then tortured a bunch of people for bogus reasons (he has the same name/watch as a terrorist, waterboarding it is!)? And the people involved not only didn't go to jail, but got promotions (is the head of the CIA still the one that had a major part in the torture program and destroyed evidence about it?).
  - dsr_ 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats "The Men Who Stare at Goats (2004) is a non-fiction work by Jon Ronson concerning the U.S. Army's exploration of New Age concepts and the potential military applications of the paranormal. The title refers to attempts to kill goats by staring at them and stopping their hearts" Or to answer your sarcastic question with a horrifying answer: yes, essentially.
- slim 4y ago
  You make it sound like a negative, it's cool on my book to wear a watch that would make you theoretically a target for a stupid agent. Especially since there's no obligation for you to wear it for traveling to US.

xrd 4y ago

It's looks so interesting, but: No GPS. My BangleJS has GPS but it is really tricky to get it synchronized with the satellites. I go for a run and then check the data and it's missing half of it because it couldn't pull the updates. AsteroidOS is cool but none of the watches really work well. I have a recent Samsung watch and the battery life is poor enough that I'm always forgetting to charge it. Sorry for the buts. This is a really cool project, I just am surprised there isn't a perfect smart watch that's open source. Or even a closed source watch that is hackable.

DoktorDelta 4y ago
PineTime might get there one day
Humpelstilzchen 4y ago
There are apps to download the AGPS-data to the Bangle.
- xrd 4y ago
  I've used those but the instructions aren't clear to me and I'm not always sure that it is synchronized. Hopefully it is just a software issue but it is evident that getting GPS data is not just a matter of connecting to a satellite, there is some preparation the device has to do before it is in a position to get the connection, and that can easily fail.
  - Humpelstilzchen 4y ago
    AGPS data just enables the Watch to get a position in a few seconds. It can get the information (almanac) from the satellites but this takes several minutes of constant direct view to clear sky. Which of the agps apps did you try? https://banglejs.com/apps/?q=agps https://banglejs.com/apps/?q=agps So far I only have used the Browser based "Assisted GPS Updater (AGPS)" one and so far have no issues.
    - xrd 4y ago

mdaniel 4y ago

Does anyone have a rough idea how much something like this would run in quantity=1? I was surprised there wasn't a BOM, which I thought was standard for open source hardware like that I would expect the display (at $5 +s/h) would dominate the cost, but the processor and ram could, too, if it's like building a PC

bloggie 4y ago
nrf52 - $7 Display - $5 Accel - $3 Pulse ox - $12 Haptic driver - $1 Haptic motor - $1 spi flash - $2 Battery charger - $5 Battery LVC - $2 Battery - $3 Buttons - $3 Passives and such - $10 PCB - $25 Total - $79 Prices from octopart and some quick guessing, shipping not included. PCB would be the first to come down in price with even a small quantity, $25 is probably an underestimation with qty=1. Passives and friends can also go up quickly depending on design. There is also an SMT antenna present that could cost a few bucks.
- _Microft 4y ago
  JLCPCB should still have special offers for 4-layer PCBs up to 50mm tall and wide. It might be that you can get five boards made for less than 10€/$. I’ll check later. Edit: yes, $2 for five pieces of 6-layer, 1.2mm thickness PCBs with ENIG surface finish. Unbelievable, isn’t it? 4-layer, 0.8mm, are possible for a few dollars more if thickness matters a lot (the finish will only be lead-free HASL, though).
- Jakkra 4y ago
  Creator here, you are not far off. I should share bom with prices, will do that on github.
crote 4y ago
You can just export the BOM from the KiCad source files. No need to commit what is essentially a build artifact to the source repo ;-)

pledess 4y ago

I'd wear one if it were "Zephyr-based" in two ways rather than just one: https://github.com/mit-athena/libzephyr/blob/7f1981c62e9d381545d4dc9e6d0e01c98b68b3ad/clients/zleave/zleave.c#L247 https://github.com/mit-athena/libzephyr/blob/7f1981c62e9d381...

Narishma 4y ago

Why is the UI so sluggish?

crote 4y ago
It is completely custom code for a DIY project. Adding more features is usually a priority over making the UI smoother - especially if you are literally the only one using it.
- zokier 4y ago
  Well, the UI is apparently based on this project https://lvgl.io/ https://lvgl.io/ which seems like its intended for this sort of purpose, so I think the question of sluggishness is valid.
Jakkra 4y ago
Creator here, Because the MCU is not very powerful. https://www.nordicsemi.com/products/nrf52833 https://www.nordicsemi.com/products/nrf52833 have limited RAM so I cannot flush more than 10% of the screen at a time

crote 4y ago

Wow, this looks really good! It already seems reasonably close to commercially available options, while still being extremely hackable. I do wonder what the battery life is. That pretty much makes or breaks it actually being a smart watch rather than a cool toy to hack on.

Jakkra 4y ago
Hi, creator here did not know it was shared on hacker news until someone sent me an email. Battery life is one day with screen always on and about two without. I designed it so that it should have a week battery life with screen not always on, but I have some hw bug so there are some current leak causing only two days life. So I use it every day.
- was_a_dev 4y ago
  Is the HW bug known, or likely known? Any possibly soft-fixes via firmware?
  - Jakkra 4y ago
    I have not debugged it much, suspect hw as I tried a few sw things without success. But could be sw fix. Anyway I'll make a new revision, this current one is a bit limiting due to the MCU and one minor hw bug that needs manual rework of the pcbs.
    - was_a_dev 4y ago
      Awesome. I'll keep an eye on this!
- solarkraft 4y ago
  Imagine putting a transflective screen on it, then. Always on and a week of battery life.

squarefoot 4y ago

Very beautiful. Although I haven't worn wrist watches for decades, I'd be tempted to buy one just for tinkering.

nix23 4y ago

I am a bit sad it's not RTEMS, however really nice project!!!