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This reads like some typical fanboi stuff. There are a lot of things to also hate about apples naming schemes, just look at the pro, max, se nonsense they cook
by tacker2000 4y ago
This reads like some typical fanboi stuff.
There are a lot of things to also hate about apples naming schemes, just look at the pro, max, se nonsense they cooked up.
Also the naming scheme of Mac OS versions, i can never figure out which one came before or after the other, there is no rhyme or reason. Why dont they use alphabetical sorted names? Or years/numbers like Windows…?
- spaceman_2020 4y agoI reckon by naming things sequentially, you build in the expectation that a later variant is “better” than a previous one - Windows 11 is “better” than Windows 10. Which isn’t always the case.
- phist_mcgee 4y agoWhich is definitely not the case
- gleenn 4y agoDo you sincerely think the marketing team wants to names things so accurately as to admit the next version is worse than the previous? It seems like that would be a really bad strategy IMHO.
- sbuk 4y ago> * Also the naming scheme of Mac OS versions, i can never figure out which one came before or after the other, there is no rhyme or reason. Why dont they use alphabetical sorted names? Or years/numbers like Windows…?* They do. Ventura is macOS 13. In fact, when they dropped OS X, they did a bit in the key note explaining that instead of it being OS X 10.16 Catalina, it would now now be macOS 11 Catalina. See > About this Mac
- ralfd 4y agoBut did Mojave come before or after Sierra? The cat names were more memorable and spanned a longer time line instead of being yearly releases.
- gidorah 4y agoYeah, but which is the better big cat? Lion? Snow Leopard? Tiger?
- ihatepython 4y agoTiger
- codetrotter 4y ago> But did Mojave come before or after Sierra? Idk, but it doesn’t matter. If you need to know which version came before or after just compare the version numbers instead. The human names are not meant for that.
- ant6n 4y agoYes but How do you know which cat or geological feature corresponds to which version number?
- Edd314159 4y agoHow do you know which Windows came first: XP, ME, Vista, 98, 10? I mean even when Apple uses sequential, numerical names you can't always answer the question of which came first: the iPhone 8 and iPhone X (10) were announced ~simultaneously! And there wasn't even a 9! My point is it really doesn't matter which big cat or California landmark came first. It's trivial to find out if you want to, but it's not terribly important to encode that in the name you're using to identify your product.
- mindracer 4y agoTo be fair Microsoft have moved some number for the last 4 releases of Windows
- ihatepython 4y agoWell, 98 is higher than 10. But perhaps they should adopt a chicken-egg naming scheme.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- nier 4y agomacOS 11 was named Big Sur while Catalina was version 10.15. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_operating_systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apple_operating_system...
- sbuk 4y agoHa! Hoisted by my own petard! Can’t edit my post now, but thanks for adding the correction.
- tacker2000 4y agoYes, of course they have real version numbers and these make sense! But the thing is, almost everywhere we see the marketing names being used, so thats where i see the problem.
- jonas-w 4y agohttps://xkcd.com/1056/ https://xkcd.com/1056/
- codetrotter 4y ago> the naming scheme of Mac OS versions, i can never figure out which one came before or after the other, there is no rhyme or reason. Why dont they use alphabetical sorted names? Or years/numbers like Windows…? The human names of the macOS versions are not meant for that purpose. Every version of macOS also has a version number. If you need to ever know which version came before another you compare the version number.
- hnlmorg 4y agoWhy even have a version name then if it’s not intended to communicate anything? I too find their naming conventions confusing. Apple TV is another example. It could refer to 3 different things depending on how it’s used. I have an Apple TV and an Apple TV subscription but I have no idea which is technically called what. I also disagree with their casual use of the term “Pro” too. But at least that isn’t an Apple specific problem but rather endemic across the entire tech landscape. The Microsoft example given by the GP isn’t great though. Microsoft are, in my personal opinion, even worse at naming things than Apple. But as someone who’s released a fair amount of open source, I do acknowledge that naming things is hard.
- hollerith 4y agoThe subscrption is called Apple TV+.
- hnlmorg 4y agoWhich is confusing. Why have a hardware product and a streaming service named identically aside the addition of a non-alphabetically symbol. When people talk about Apple TV I’m never quite certain which product they’re referring to and have to infer that from the context of their sentence.
- andirk 4y agoSuch as "I like my Apple TV" probably implies the hardware box whereas "I like Apple TV" means the streaming service.
- fastball 4y agoWhat reads as fanboi stuff? This is a visualization with surprisingly little editorializing.
- jshzglr 4y ago[flagged]
- Aardwolf 4y agoIt reads as fanboyish because it start with "I love how ...", while a non-fanboy might instead have said: "How apple names things: they choose names that have a slight air of elitism to them (also reusing name parts they already established), to make it sound as if they're slightly better than everything else"
- unsafecast 4y agoThat's being overly pedantic. You can appreciate (even love) something without being a fanboy. I, for one, can say that I love some of the design of macos, but I also criticise apple on most other things. I don't even own a mac.
- nidnogg 4y agoI know this might be pedantic under certain circumstances but I think it was really just a joke on the part of the commenter.
- unsafecast 4y agoI didn't see it as a joke. Happy to be wrong though.
- hk__2 4y agoThis is not "I love Apple and everything it does" but "I love how Apple names things".
- rob74 4y agoOk, Microsoft is not a shining example for naming either, I mean, they had a product called "Windows 8" which actually had version number 6.2 - do I need to say more? At least they fixed this with the first release of Windows 10 - and then got rid of the version numbers in the very next release (at least according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Windows_vers...).
- omnicognate 4y agoIf microsoft fired everyone who's ever come with a name for anything and renamed all their stuff after randomly selected Pokémon it would be an improvement.
- KptMarchewa 4y agoLike on this chart? https://i.redd.it/n9zkfwj43kn01.jpg https://i.redd.it/n9zkfwj43kn01.jpg
- gumboza 4y agoThat's nothing. Try working out what version of the .Net framework you need or are running!
- olliej 4y agoHey, don't dis MS for having different marketing version vs product versions. OS manufacturers are hostage to the same bad 3rd party coding practices that browsers browsers are with the UA string. You get stuck in a position where changing version number can become actually scary (I recall Safari 2.0.4 having a bunch of issues because the addition of the character "4" broke a wide array of sites, because if your user agent string contains "4" you are netscape 4, and supported document.layers and JavaScript Style Sheets)
- pavo-etc 4y agoWe can't forget the nightmare that is Xbox names
- schipplock 4y ago
- nicky0 4y ago[flagged]
- Edd314159 4y agoIs it so hard to just let someone enjoy something? Apple has a lot of problems right now, but it's still OK to say something positive about them once in a while. We don't need to fight about it and discredit it. Apple names are fun! It's a nice thing!
- apetrovic 4y agoAt this point, whenever anything Apple-related comes to HN front page, I can bring up a bingo card with pre-canned responses and cover at least 80% of conversation. Same with go fanboyism/hate.
- saagarjha 4y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23003595 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23003595
- andai 4y agoThis is poetry!
- gtirloni 4y agoSame for every other topic, really. It's not like the HN crowd is homogeneous (you can add 'HN is not homogeneous' to the bingo card for HN-meta threads).
- rsrx 4y agoAdd crypto to that list too.
- brk 4y agoThat will change with the upcoming Apple iCrypto Wallet Pro, and iCrypto Wallet Air releases.
- als0 4y agoWhat's fun about SE, XR and XDR?
- 22289d 4y agoAs a California native, I love the 10.9.5+ names. They all have meaning to me. (They're all places in California).
- echoer_lyrist 4y ago1, 2, 3, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10, 11 vs 10.0, 10.1,...,10.15,11,12,13
- oefrha 4y agoYou forgot 10, 10 Anniversary Update, 10 Creators Update, 10 Fall Creators Update, etc. nonsense. These were comparable to macOS 10.x since we were told Windows 10 was the last Windows version. But of course later macOS 11 happened, and Windows 11 magically sprang into life soon afterwards.
- wildpeaks 4y agoThis page merely contains a graph of the product names taxonomy and four short sentences to explain why/how they created the graph, so we must have a very different definition of what typical fanboi stuff is.
- latexr 4y ago> There are a lot of things to also hate about apples naming schemes Which you’re free to do, and could have done without insulting the author. The submitted post’s very first sentence is “I love the way Apple names things”. The author likes them. They’re sharing a opinion, at no point do they imply they’re the voice of reason or that you should agree with them. What I see from their post is someone who made an effort to build and share something interesting which makes them happy. What I see from your comment is instant tribalism, where one can’t even say they like an inconsequential naming scheme without being labelled a “typical fanboi”. Can we do better? Let people enjoy what they want, they’re not harming anyone.
- xnickb 4y ago> they’re not harming anyone That is to be proven. Encouraging and advocating practices that are counterproductive can be harmful. Maybe you just don't see how one company is shaping the entire market because a group of people (we can call them fanboys for the sake of argument) insists that their way of doing things is "the" way. Which it of course isn't and we see how that is ruining products that try to compete. See win11 as an example.
- tosc 4y agoDiscouraging and disparaging practices that are helpful is also harmful. Have you considered that? Also, Apple adopted these practices long before they had significant market share in any market. Nobody has been “forced” to adopt them in order to compete.
- latexr 4y ago> we can call them fanboys for the sake of argument You don’t call someone a pejorative term “for the sake of argument”, you do it for the exact opposite. Insults are the antithesis of productive discussion. > because a group of people (…) insists that their way of doing things is "the" way. Which, again, is not what the author did. They didn’t claim Apple’s naming scheme was “the way”, they said they personally liked it. Period.
- whynaut 4y ago
- anaganisk 4y agoYears numbers like windows? You mean like Windows XP Vista 8 10 11?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- nicolaskruchten 4y agoAuthor here... it pretty much is fanboi stuff, yes :) And sure, there are flaws in Apple's naming scheme as well as things I love.
- coldtea 4y ago>There are a lot of things to also hate about apples naming schemes, just look at the pro, max, se nonsense they cooked up. Nothing bad about those names in utility. They designate 3 different models/spec levels, and they're infinitely better than all crap names DELL or SONY etc ever came up with ("NZ4X5-324DD" and such). As for aesthetics, they're short, easy to remember, and pleasurably sounding. What's not to like? That "pro" ain't for "real" professionals gatekeeping BS, as if video editors and graphic designers are the only real professionals, and a CEO isn't pro enough... >Also the naming scheme of Mac OS versions, i can never figure out which one came before or after the other, there is no rhyme or reason. Aside the fact that they coming with an associated dead simple numeric version, they're out there for a year before the next one comes. You have like a year to learn and remember that Ventura is the latest and had one year to become familiar with Monterey before it was replaced (so it's quite easy to remember Ventura was next). Now, if you some reason you want to determine if some OS from 10-15 years ago like Snow Leopard came before or after Tiger, yeah, that would be more difficult (also more pointless).
- tacker2000 4y agoYea but most people dont update their mac os every year, and get “familiar” with the name. Heck, im still on catalina, imho the last “good” macos version (but thats another discussion). Anyway, its just that everytime a macos version is mentioned i have to look up the sequence, because i just cant remember it. One reason is probably also that macos has much more frequent updates (than windows for example) and thats why i cant remember them. Also you say its hard to sequence the older macos releases, that is true! but i can perfectly sequence the old windows releases. Why? Maybe i used them more? Anyway its still interesting. In the end it wouldnt be hard for them to use a more helpful, user friendly, naming scheme