8 ms·

In bike messenger circles there is a phrase "steel is real". The idea being that when you inevitably eat shit going around a corner you might dent your frame, b

by zwkrt 4y ago

In bike messenger circles there is a phrase "steel is real". The idea being that when you inevitably eat shit going around a corner you might dent your frame, but the chances that a steel frame will crack or shatter is basically zero. And more importantly dings and scratches don't cause the structural integrity to degrade like happens with aluminum or carbon fiber. Your steel fork is bent? Hit it with a hammer until it's true again!

Scoundreller 4y ago
Also applies to fixing steel wheels. Can slam them against the ground, hammer them, and step on them to bend them back into shape without losing as much strength as one would on aluminum.
- joe_the_user 4y ago
  Aside from being absurdly heavy, steel wheels are dangerous since they become extremely slippery to brake shoes in rain or wet conditions. I don't think steel rims are common any more - or at least they shouldn't be unless you use disk brakes or something.
  - whalesalad 4y ago
    I'm guessing this person might be referring to steel car/truck wheels? A lot of serious crawlers/off-roaders prefer steel wheels because 1. they are cheap and easy to fix/replace, 2. they are easy to weld on beadlocks, and 3. you can definitely repair them out on the trail with a hammer.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Not common in new builds, but because of their durability and repairability, they’re still around.
soulofmischief 4y ago
Oh, I wish. Unfortunately a nasty accident bent my steel tube beyond repair due to structural integrity concerns, and I still have yet to find a bike I've felt so at one with... This one was an early 80's Schwinn before the Chicago plant shut down and it's hard to find the exact kind I like.
- analog31 4y ago
  There's nothing like those lugged Schwinn frames for building beaters. There was a period when some were built in Mississippi, and others in Japan. I've got a couple of those frames, and they're a great raw material.
  - soulofmischief 4y ago
    They simply do not make them like they used to. Not after '83. Those frames were a real triumph of human engineering.
    - leetrout 4y ago
      What would it take to make them again? Would it just cost too much?
      - analog31 4y ago
        I think lack of demand, and a fragmenting of the component standards, are hurdles. Those old Schwinn (and other brand) frames were made during a time period when there was a lot of interchangeability, and most spare parts are still available. Today, standards for things like bottom brackets change every three years. There's no part on my 1985 frame, that I can't replace today, cheaply. I can get a brand new lugged steel frame that would be perfect for my use -- a Surly Cross-Check. Seriously the only deterrent is a minor injury has forced me to re-think what my future needs are for geometry. I may need to adopt a more "comfort" posture. Better than not riding. Sucks to get old. Despite my above comment, and thinking about it more, I want my next bike to be modern in the sense of accommodating fenders and much wider tires. I need horizontal dropouts and to be able to set the rear dropout spacing, to accommodate an internal gear hub (IGH).
whalesalad 4y ago
I came here to say the same thing - "steel is real" is totally true. I did have a Bianchi Pista Concept that was probably my favorite bike of all time, but a no-name steel fixed gear bike that I owned got way more miles and was far more comfortable. The carbon fork on the pista concept helped, but all-in-all it was a performance machine and not a comfortable one. Anecdotally, and I know the cab material is not the only difference, my RAM 1500 is leaps and bounds more comfortable and pleasant to be in than my F-150. The RAM has a steel body, whereas the F-150 is very light/rigid aluminum. The steel cab does much better with absorbing the energy/sound from the road.
max_k 4y ago
A year ago, my titanium fork broke (while driving rather slowly on good tarmac, photo here https://twitter.com/dothebart/status/1486765955254530051 https://twitter.com/dothebart/status/1486765955254530051), and the titanium frame got a few cracks as well. My motto "the last bike I'll ever buy" collided with reality. Fortunately, I got away with just a few scratches - just a minute later, I would have been at 60+ kph downhill. My new bike has a steel frame. I love it, but titanium was more flexible and more comfortable. And of course titanium is nerdier! :-)
- jupp0r 4y ago
  Glad you're ok. I wish the anti helmet crowd from the Netherlands from a different thread 2 weeks ago would read this.
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    The “anti helmet crowd” wouldn’t have any issue reading be this. Wearing helmets when you’re on a sports bike is very common in the Netherlands. It’s just not common on Dutch commuters cycles, but then again, these do not have this failure mode. Sports bikes in general have much less margin for failure, and thus fail more often and catastrophic than a solid steel bike.
    - jupp0r 4y ago
      Right, all commuter bikes are made of solid steel and steel bikes never break. Got it.
      - Xylakant 4y ago
        Typical Dutch commuter bikes are made of steel. And yes, steel breaks, but the failure mode of a solid steel fork is much much different from a titanium, aluminum or carbon fork. They bend, crack and at some point break, but they’ll typically not snap like this because steel is much less brittle than any of those materials. Also, speed matters. Going 15 or 50 when the thing breaks makes a difference.
jackmott 4y ago
prmoustache 4y ago
Ironically a carbon frame is easier and cheaper to repair than a nice steel frame.
prmoustache 4y ago
Personnally I always felt that the steel is real mantra was just pure ignorance. There are great bikes of very different materials. I owned great bikes in steel, alu and carbon. My most comfortable and efficient road bike was made of carbon, the less comfortable made of crude 4130 steel tubing while some other steel bikes were really nice to ride but not as comfy as my current carbon bike. Reason is mostly because these bikes had that old school italian geometry with very short chainstays and couldn't accept tires bigger than 23mm. I've seen steel bikes bent into unrepairability while I've seen carbon bikes shattered into several pieces then repaired and rebuild with very little difference in ride feeling after the repair for a tiny fraction of the cost a custom builder would ask to replace steel tubes on an existing high end steel frame.
WalterBright 4y ago
A hammer is all a good mechanic needs.
- sdenton4 4y ago
  When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a bicycle.
haspok 4y ago
> Your steel fork is bent? Hit it with a hammer until it's true again! I'm sorry, but this is BS. I don't think you can fix double/triple butted tubes easily, and even if you could, I wouldn't trust them any longer. I once owned a steel-framed Italian road bike, made around 1985-1990. I bought it cheap because neither I nor the seller knew at the time that it was a real pedigree race bike, which meant lightweight tubes and probably quality steel (I don't know what it was made of, but the whole bike weighed in under 10kg with pedals, which for an older steel framed bike is excellent). Then I crashed it, I went straight into a lamp post at around 20kmh. It was not a nice experience on myself, but the bike... the fork was bent backwards so that the front wheel went past the down tube. The top tube was bent, dented and bashed and cracked, almost unrecognizably. It was clear from the first moment that no-one will be riding that frame again... ...until a guy turned up to "buy" the frame & parts (I gave them away for free). Guess what, he just needed the lugs and he built a bamboo bike from them! That's how you recycle for good.
arethuza 4y ago
I managed to crack a steel frame mountain bike in the early 1990s - I did use it to commute (about 25km a day) and used it off road a lot. Simply got someone to weld up the crack, got the frame sprayed and it lasted another 5 years or until I could afford to buy something nicer.

by zwkrt 4y ago

Scoundreller 4y ago

Also applies to fixing steel wheels. Can slam them against the ground, hammer them, and step on them to bend them back into shape without losing as much strength as one would on aluminum.

joe_the_user 4y ago
Aside from being absurdly heavy, steel wheels are dangerous since they become extremely slippery to brake shoes in rain or wet conditions. I don't think steel rims are common any more - or at least they shouldn't be unless you use disk brakes or something.
- whalesalad 4y ago
  I'm guessing this person might be referring to steel car/truck wheels? A lot of serious crawlers/off-roaders prefer steel wheels because 1. they are cheap and easy to fix/replace, 2. they are easy to weld on beadlocks, and 3. you can definitely repair them out on the trail with a hammer.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Not common in new builds, but because of their durability and repairability, they’re still around.

soulofmischief 4y ago

Oh, I wish. Unfortunately a nasty accident bent my steel tube beyond repair due to structural integrity concerns, and I still have yet to find a bike I've felt so at one with... This one was an early 80's Schwinn before the Chicago plant shut down and it's hard to find the exact kind I like.

analog31 4y ago
There's nothing like those lugged Schwinn frames for building beaters. There was a period when some were built in Mississippi, and others in Japan. I've got a couple of those frames, and they're a great raw material.
- soulofmischief 4y ago
  They simply do not make them like they used to. Not after '83. Those frames were a real triumph of human engineering.
  - leetrout 4y ago
    What would it take to make them again? Would it just cost too much?
    - analog31 4y ago
      I think lack of demand, and a fragmenting of the component standards, are hurdles. Those old Schwinn (and other brand) frames were made during a time period when there was a lot of interchangeability, and most spare parts are still available. Today, standards for things like bottom brackets change every three years. There's no part on my 1985 frame, that I can't replace today, cheaply. I can get a brand new lugged steel frame that would be perfect for my use -- a Surly Cross-Check. Seriously the only deterrent is a minor injury has forced me to re-think what my future needs are for geometry. I may need to adopt a more "comfort" posture. Better than not riding. Sucks to get old. Despite my above comment, and thinking about it more, I want my next bike to be modern in the sense of accommodating fenders and much wider tires. I need horizontal dropouts and to be able to set the rear dropout spacing, to accommodate an internal gear hub (IGH).

whalesalad 4y ago

I came here to say the same thing - "steel is real" is totally true. I did have a Bianchi Pista Concept that was probably my favorite bike of all time, but a no-name steel fixed gear bike that I owned got way more miles and was far more comfortable. The carbon fork on the pista concept helped, but all-in-all it was a performance machine and not a comfortable one. Anecdotally, and I know the cab material is not the only difference, my RAM 1500 is leaps and bounds more comfortable and pleasant to be in than my F-150. The RAM has a steel body, whereas the F-150 is very light/rigid aluminum. The steel cab does much better with absorbing the energy/sound from the road.

max_k 4y ago

A year ago, my titanium fork broke (while driving rather slowly on good tarmac, photo here https://twitter.com/dothebart/status/1486765955254530051 https://twitter.com/dothebart/status/1486765955254530051), and the titanium frame got a few cracks as well. My motto "the last bike I'll ever buy" collided with reality. Fortunately, I got away with just a few scratches - just a minute later, I would have been at 60+ kph downhill. My new bike has a steel frame. I love it, but titanium was more flexible and more comfortable. And of course titanium is nerdier! :-)

jupp0r 4y ago
Glad you're ok. I wish the anti helmet crowd from the Netherlands from a different thread 2 weeks ago would read this.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  The “anti helmet crowd” wouldn’t have any issue reading be this. Wearing helmets when you’re on a sports bike is very common in the Netherlands. It’s just not common on Dutch commuters cycles, but then again, these do not have this failure mode. Sports bikes in general have much less margin for failure, and thus fail more often and catastrophic than a solid steel bike.
  - jupp0r 4y ago
    Right, all commuter bikes are made of solid steel and steel bikes never break. Got it.
    - Xylakant 4y ago
      Typical Dutch commuter bikes are made of steel. And yes, steel breaks, but the failure mode of a solid steel fork is much much different from a titanium, aluminum or carbon fork. They bend, crack and at some point break, but they’ll typically not snap like this because steel is much less brittle than any of those materials. Also, speed matters. Going 15 or 50 when the thing breaks makes a difference.

jackmott 4y ago

prmoustache 4y ago

Ironically a carbon frame is easier and cheaper to repair than a nice steel frame.

prmoustache 4y ago

Personnally I always felt that the steel is real mantra was just pure ignorance. There are great bikes of very different materials. I owned great bikes in steel, alu and carbon. My most comfortable and efficient road bike was made of carbon, the less comfortable made of crude 4130 steel tubing while some other steel bikes were really nice to ride but not as comfy as my current carbon bike. Reason is mostly because these bikes had that old school italian geometry with very short chainstays and couldn't accept tires bigger than 23mm. I've seen steel bikes bent into unrepairability while I've seen carbon bikes shattered into several pieces then repaired and rebuild with very little difference in ride feeling after the repair for a tiny fraction of the cost a custom builder would ask to replace steel tubes on an existing high end steel frame.

WalterBright 4y ago

A hammer is all a good mechanic needs.

sdenton4 4y ago
When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a bicycle.

haspok 4y ago

> Your steel fork is bent? Hit it with a hammer until it's true again! I'm sorry, but this is BS. I don't think you can fix double/triple butted tubes easily, and even if you could, I wouldn't trust them any longer. I once owned a steel-framed Italian road bike, made around 1985-1990. I bought it cheap because neither I nor the seller knew at the time that it was a real pedigree race bike, which meant lightweight tubes and probably quality steel (I don't know what it was made of, but the whole bike weighed in under 10kg with pedals, which for an older steel framed bike is excellent). Then I crashed it, I went straight into a lamp post at around 20kmh. It was not a nice experience on myself, but the bike... the fork was bent backwards so that the front wheel went past the down tube. The top tube was bent, dented and bashed and cracked, almost unrecognizably. It was clear from the first moment that no-one will be riding that frame again... ...until a guy turned up to "buy" the frame & parts (I gave them away for free). Guess what, he just needed the lugs and he built a bamboo bike from them! That's how you recycle for good.

arethuza 4y ago

I managed to crack a steel frame mountain bike in the early 1990s - I did use it to commute (about 25km a day) and used it off road a lot. Simply got someone to weld up the crack, got the frame sprayed and it lasted another 5 years or until I could afford to buy something nicer.