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Wow. PG did not even post any links, he pretty much just said "I have a Mastodon account." And just like that, banned. Looks like now you're not allowed to so
by britneybitch 4y ago
Wow. PG did not even post any links, he pretty much just said "I have a Mastodon account." And just like that, banned.
Looks like now you're not allowed to so much as mention that you use other websites on the internet besides Twitter.
- danbmil99 4y agoPossibly of interest: : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34045737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34045737
- garbagetime 4y agoYou are wrong about what PG said. In fact, his Tweet included an explanation of where to find a link to his Mastodon account. Elon has made it clear that these blatant attempts at ban evasion are not allowed.
- meshugga 4y agoIt's not what the TOS say though.
- garbagetime 4y agoNote that Twitter's TOS are only one of the three components of the Twitter User Agreement. There are also the Twitter Rules and Policies. This is what Twitter's Rules and Policies page says: > At both the Tweet level and the account level, we will remove any free promotion of prohibited 3rd-party social media platforms, such as linking out (i.e. using URLs) to any of the below platforms on Twitter, or providing your handle without a URL:
- meshugga 4y agoBoth of which paulg didn't do.
- tick_tock_tick 4y ago.... Read it again dude. That's a non exhaustive list he clearly violated it. Kind of a bullshit policy but he clearly violated it.
- garbagetime 4y agoI think you made a mistake when you read the quotation. PG broke the rule when he promoted a prohibited 3rd-party social media platform.
- zakki 4y agoPG didn’t do any of that, did he?
- garbagetime 4y agoHe promoted prohibited 3rd-party social media platforms
- Terretta 4y agoThe more detail you provide, the clearer it is PG didn't take the prohibited action.
- shadowgovt 4y agoI don't think it's worth getting hung up on what the TOS say. Twitter is Musk's fiefdom now and the rules are what he decides they are. Letter of the law is worthless here; it's will-of-the-baron rules.
- signal11 4y agoPG’s tweet said, iirc, go to my website, it has my Mastodon link. He didn’t even mention his website, it’s on his bio. If that’s not okay to Twitter, that’s extremely interesting. Brings Apple’s App Store rules to mind.
- modeless 4y agoMy thoughts too. If Twitter is going to start behaving like the App Store I want no part of it.
- chipotle_coyote 4y agoThis isn't as much behaving like the App Store as it is telling the App Store "hold my beer".
- geraldwhen 4y agoNot really; it’s the same. You can’t release products that compete with apple, ala an App Store, or games store, etc. It took a lawsuit to change that for Europe, but we still have yet to see what that looks like.
- modeless 4y agoUnless you're Roblox of course. What's up with that? Does Tim Cook own a bunch of Roblox stock or something?
- wholinator2 4y agoI believe Roblox would have enough money to convince any platform hosting their app to capitulate.
- hackernewds 4y agoNot really. The pixel buds app is in the Apple store. So is Amazon.
- thebradbain 4y agoThe TOS says any accounts that primarily focus on promotion of competitors will be banned, which, hm, but anyways. I think it’s obvious PG’s account was not primarily focused on links to other socials, so on to the next condition. The TOS also says any accounts which post a direct link to such sites will be found in violation. It does not say anything about purely mentioning the fact you have another social media (especially without saying the username), nor linking to a personal website, nor does it say anything about referring to where to find such a thing
- sytelus 4y agoYou are incorrectly quoting the TOS. The TOS very clearly says "Emperor will decide who will be banned and for what reason.". Go read it again.
- hackernewds 4y agoSo if Twitter restarted Vine they would ban Tiktok's Twitter account? Unheard of
- eclipxe 4y agoThat's not very free speech of twitter, now is it?
- dm319 4y agoEven worse, does it apply any ethical principles to the decision making around the limits of freedom of speech? I.e. when you're weighing up whether, say, incitement of violence, or Nazi support are beyond the line of what is acceptable, do you also place 'promoting alternative social media technology' as somewhere near these limits of freedom of speech?
- happytoexplain 4y agoCalling this a "blatant attempt at ban evasion" is uncharitable. What he wrote was, at most, arguably against the spirit of the rule. This is not even to speak of whether the rule is reasonable, or even just consistent with Elon's stated values.
- ekidd 4y ago> blatant attempts at ban evasion This is a very strange way to describe what's going on at Twitter. Musk has loudly announced that you're not allowed to even link to your other profiles on any other social media sites, or even describe indirectly how to find them. No major social media site has ever done something quite this anticompetitive, and certainly not all this scale. I've been using the Internet since the Eternal September, and this is a ludicrous policy.
- garbagetime 4y agoYou have misunderstood what Elon and I are referring to by 'ban evasion'. You may disagree with the policy of banning the promotion of alternative social platforms, but that is the rule. Trying to break that rule while not getting banned is blatantly ban evasion.
- dm319 4y agoOk, what do you think of that rule?
- garbagetime 4y agoI strongly dislike it (and I believe Elon has now changed it), but that's another conversation.
- jacquesm 4y agoElon and you? Really?
- commoner 4y agoThat's not what ban evasion means. Ban evasion is the attempt to circumvent an existing ban or suspension. Posting content that does not benefit Twitter, without violating Twitter's rules, is not ban evasion. Here is Twitter's policy on ban evasion: https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/ban-evasion https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/ban-evasion In case Twitter changes this policy, here's an archived copy of the current version (October 2020): https://web.archive.org/web/20221218225353/https://help.twitter.com/en/rules-and-policies/ban-evasion https://web.archive.org/web/20221218225353/https://help.twit...
- watwut 4y agoMaaan, the expression "ban evasion" is becoming as meaningless as "free speech" along with "bias" and so on. People just use them fully randomly.
- leviathant 4y agoSome people don't seem to understand the inter- part of the word internet.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tibbon 4y agoIs using Mastadon (a competing service) an attempt at ban evasion?
- dm319 4y agoI'm curious - I've seen his tweet. Can I ask you: 1. Are you just an advocate for following a website's terms? 2. Or do you think there is credibility in these terms?
- garbagetime 4y agoHave I been advocating following Twitter's rules? No. I've simply been explaining what those rules were (they have since been reverted) and how PG broke them.
- dekhn 4y agoActually, Elon just had paul's account unsuspended. Regardless of the reasoning, it makes much of your argumentation moot (irrelevant) because it's clear you don't understand Twitter or Musk's reasoning (nor does Musk).
- garbagetime 4y agoThe situation is very simple. 1. PG broke one of Twitter's rules: > At both the Tweet level and the account level, we will remove any free promotion of prohibited 3rd-party social media platforms, such as linking out (i.e. using URLs) to any of the below platforms on Twitter, or providing your handle without a URL: 2. Twitter suspended PG's account 3. Twitter got rid of the rule. 4. PG had his account reinstated.
- ajross 4y ago
- berkle4455 4y ago> illegal
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- DiNovi 4y ago
- chipgap98 4y agoMusk shouldn't be involved personally in any suspension decisions. That's a huge part of the problem
- jurassic 4y agoYou can’t blame the enforcement of a new policy on a “rogue employee”. The buck stops with Elon and he needs to own the consequences of whatever policy changes he decides to enact.
- krferriter 4y agoI think we need to be at least open to the possibility that the current owner of privately held Twitter is an extraordinarily thin-skinned douchebag with the conflict management skills of a spoiled toddler, and a lengthy track record of petty ridiculous retaliation against people who suggest he is wrong about something or otherwise not the biggest genius in the world.
- occamsrazorwit 4y agoFrom the "Twitter Files", the platform reporting system has a list of accounts, and those accounts can have different levels of "approval" for moderation. For example, any moderation action taken on Libs of Tik Tok would require approval from a committee [1]. Larger, more popular accounts require more eyes as they're likely to garner more "false" reports. All of this is to say that there are three likely scenarios: 1. For whatever reason (e.g. staffing, technical problems, lack of training), PG's account didn't get treated with the scrutiny it deserved. 2. A report on PG's account went up the chain, landed in front of a trained moderation team, and they banned him against Musk's wishes (presumably unintentionally). 3. Musk desired his ban. If it was a random tech CEO, I think Scenario 2 would be most likely. Given the recent technical issues with Twitter, their employee turnover, and Musk's recent actions towards "former allies" that spoke out against him, I think it's actually a toss-up. [1] https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1601018810495995904 https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1601018810495995904
- threatofrain 4y agoFrom official Twitter support: > We recognize that many of our users are active on other social media platforms. However, we will no longer allow free promotion of certain social media platforms on Twitter. > Specifically, we will remove accounts created solely for the purpose of promoting other social platforms and content that contains links or usernames for the following platforms: Facebook, Instagram, Mastodon, Truth Social, Tribel, Nostr and Post. And from Elon Musk: > Casually sharing occasional links is fine, but no more relentless advertising of competitors for free, which is absurd in the extreme.
- louloulou 4y agolol, nostr? There are like 20 people on that, it's still just an experiment.
- retrocryptid 4y ago
- throwaway4aday 4y agoThis is all rather entertaining to watch from the sidelines. Both "sides" in this power struggle are making hilarious cock-ups and are playing hard to their bases, to the point of absurdity. The sad thing is watching people say things like this as if it's some kind of "checkmate, alt-right!" but anyone with even an eighth of their attention resting outside of a filter bubble can see that A) nobody on the other side gives a shit and B) the side accusing Musk of not adhering to his promise has already squandered so much cache over the past 7 years that this kind of reneging, which is by all measures incredibly tame and expected given both Twitter's business interests and Musks personality, is in no way damning let alone surprising. Neither side has moral authority, you're both just street fighting and are too covered in mud and manure to figure out that you're punching in the wrong directions.
- 082349872349872 4y ago> The acid test for any two competing socioeconomic systems is which side needs to build a wall to keep people from escaping? — ERM
- jacquesm 4y agoYes, that was a Tweet by Musk at some point. Well, we know now how that test played out.
- DoreenMichele 4y agoBanned for being too high profile and mentioning Mastodon, essentially.
- memish 4y agoThis is fucking sad. This is just as bad as the old Twitter that banned people for saying things like "learn to code". Any hope for an improved Twitter is getting tossed out the window.
- jacquesm 4y ago
- cactusplant7374 4y agoI use TinyURL. I’m sure other link shorteners work. When a snitch reports the tweet I add random query variables to the url and generate another short link.
- that_guy_iain 4y agoNo, it literally said in the rules that he posted that any attempt to get around it would also be a violation. He told people where to find it. He attempted to get around it. So it's a violation. A stupid rule, but technically someone at Twitter has to enforce it. Since the people suspending accounts aren't in charge of what rules they enforce and which they don't. How much you want to bet this ends up with the EU threatening Musk again?
- rsynnott 4y agoThe order Proboscidea encompasses elephants, stegodonts, and [redacted, praise Elon].
- tedunangst 4y agoYeah, well, he also said "I'm not leaving Twitter." and nobody tells Elon whether they're leaving or not. That's Elon's call to make and his alone.
- jacquesm 4y agoIt appears that he was wrong about that first bit though.
- sapporo_197 4y ago
- 98codes 4y agoSo far links to legit-elephant.lol/@username@instance.name seem to work. So far.
- rgbrenner 4y agoI would be willing to bet that Elon follows pg... and he probably took personal offense to him leaving.
- sytelus 4y agoEmperor doesn't like disloyal twirps.
- jacquesm 4y ago"If I can't have you I'll destroy you".
- angry_octet 4y agoI used to have computers named after dune characters, but I never thought pretending to be Paul Atreides was a rational business strategy.
- jacquesm 4y agoThe scary thing is how many people see him as a role model.
- malermeister 4y agoFree Speech is back, baby!
- stelliosk 4y agoSo does that make twitter the communist version capitalism?
- minimaxir 4y agoHijacking top comment to note Elon Musk has commented: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604616426114932737 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604616426114932737 > Paul’s account will be restored shortly And https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604616863673208832 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604616863673208832 > Going forward, there will be a vote for major policy changes. My apologies. Won’t happen again.
- bydlocoder 4y agoThe company is a clown show if a CEO has to interfere with moderation policies.
- 323 4y agoCould also be malicious compliance.
- rchaud 4y agoAgainst the rules he came with?
- bydlocoder 4y agoYeah, thought about it. Nobody wants to argue with Elon and nobody gives a shit.
- astrange 4y agoNot really “has to”, he just is doing it because he’s got nothing better to do. Much like how he didn’t have to fire the previous head of moderation and spend the last week calling him a gay pedophile and releasing his work emails.
- LambdaComplex 4y ago> he’s got nothing better to do Isn't he CEO of 2 or 3 other companies? I know a lot of people think that CEOs don't actually do anything important; Musk is not hurting their argument.
- sillysaurusx 4y agoPaul’s unbanned now.
- Hoyadonis 4y agoAdditionally, Elon Musk just tweeted asking if he should resign as head of Twitter: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604617643973124097 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604617643973124097
- dang 4y agoRelated ongoing thread: Should I step down as head of Twitter? I will abide by the results of this poll - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34045423 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34045423
- andromaton 4y agoAnd it shows Paul is followed by 2857 people, following none. All this random minor chaos is a little saddening. Eggs have to be broken to make omelette. This looks like sloppy cooking.
- sulam 4y agoThis is common post ban, it's not as simple as a flag.
- b33j0r 4y agoI vaguely feel like someone (ahem) is trying to get us to riot over silly things, as an experiment. It doesn’t make any sense.
- TillE 4y agoMusk's entire Twitter reign makes complete sense if you just view it as one thin-skinned guy arbitrarily lashing out. There's no secret plan, he's just trying to "fix" whatever personally bothers him.
- strangemonad 4y agoCorrect. The latest new policy as of this morning is that you’re not allowed to reference over half the internet
- srrr 4y agoThe European Union Digital Markets Act, coming into effect in May 2023, explicitly forbids such behavior. (If twitter is classified as a "gatekeeper".) https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-... Example of the “don'ts” - Gatekeeper platforms may no longer: - treat services and products offered by the gatekeeper itself more favourably in ranking than similar services or products offered by third parties on the gatekeeper's platform - prevent consumers from linking up to businesses outside their platforms
- OJFord 4y agoOdd use of 'gatekeeper' isn't it? Even if I would call this 'gatekeeping behaviour' (I don't think it is, the way that's usually used around here at least? Not to say that it isn't 'misbehaviour') surely the thing that's objected to really is gatekeeping by x platforms, where x is 'monopoly' or 'dominant' or something?
- srrr 4y agoI think the term gatekeeper makes more sense if applied to companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft & Co, with their search engines, maps, app stores, operating systems, browsers ... all these are gateways to "the digital market". Twitter might be to small and comparatively niche to be classified as a gatekeeper. There does not seem to be an exact definition that I could find. But social networks as a category and companies like Meta/Facebook are listed as gatekeepers.
- AnssiH 4y ago> There does not seem to be an exact definition that I could find. From the regulation, Article 3: 1. An undertaking shall be designated as a gatekeeper if: (a) it has a significant impact on the internal market; (b) it provides a core platform service which is an important gateway for business users to reach end users; and (c) it enjoys an entrenched and durable position, in its operations, or it is foreseeable that it will enjoy such a position in the near future. 2. An undertaking shall be presumed to satisfy the respective requirements in paragraph 1: (a) as regards paragraph 1, point (a), where it achieves an annual Union turnover equal to or above EUR 7,5 billion in each of the last three financial years, or where its average market capitalisation or its equivalent fair market value amounted to at least EUR 75 billion in the last financial year, and it provides the same core platform service in at least three Member States; (b) as regards paragraph 1, point (b), where it provides a core platform service that in the last financial year has at least 45 million monthly active end users established or located in the Union and at least 10 000 yearly active business users established in the Union, identified and calculated in accordance with the methodology and indicators set out in the Annex; (c) as regards paragraph 1, point (c), where the thresholds in point (b) of this paragraph were met in each of the last three financial years. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32022R1925 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... ("core platform service" is explicitly defined to include social networking services)
- diob 4y agoPlease, they're called assassination coordinates now. He's trying to protect us.
- catapart 4y agoI'm kind of shocked that Bezos hasn't commissioned an ActivityPub/federated network (mastodon instance) that obfuscates the decentralization (for easier onboarding) and gives you some kind of "deal" for having Amazon Prime. Feels like Amazon could eat Twitter's lunch here (especially since they, allegedly, run Twitter's servers now, meaning that they could handle the traffic).
- berniedurfee 4y agoI think there are tons of brands that could launch a Twitter clone right now while the dumpster fire is hot. My guess is that nobody wants to run a social media site these days… not even Elon Musk. Social media sites are a sort of grayweb at this point in history.
- agrippanux 4y agoContent moderation is a hard, stressful, thankless job. Having built several moderation tools for large sites (large for back in the day), I for one am enjoying the debacle that is Elon and a cadre of Yes Men thinking they would waltz in with no experience and shake it all up with no consequences.
- applicative 4y agoI have no experience with content moderation but thought that the bureaucracy Twitter had in place was really a response to genuine market imperatives. I mean, remember the site was a leading recruitment site for foreign Isis fighters, to give an extreme example. The Elonites and the resurfaced 4chan types have this picture of faceless ‘woke’ elites who came from nowhere but the general elite miasma —- and sensibly cast aside by free speech Musk. But in fact it was a gruesome business and technical problem; in the end it will only end up being reproduced.
- crazygringo 4y agoI think the reason so few are getting into the thing is that Twitter never showed the concept to be a particularly profitable business in the first place, and it couldn't seem to grow beyond a certain small size (in comparison to other networks). So why would Amazon or any other company want to invest in their own version of that?
- reaperducer 4y agoLooks like now you're not allowed to so much as mention that you use other websites on the internet besides Twitter. I think soon getting kicked off of Twitter will become a tech badge of honor. Like having a gmail address back when it was invitation-only.
- redbell 4y agoWell, I think I have to update my understanding of "Free Speech". It's such a simple concept on paper that got extremely complex to deal with once deployed to production.
- kaba0 4y agoI think twitter couldn’t be more mismanaged than under this narcissistic idiot, but free speech is far from simple — you just get mindless shitposting and hate speech without some form of moderation.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- duxup 4y agoElon seems to try so hard to show people how he is, people just don’t want to take him at his actions…
- pkulak 4y agoAh, that’s why I was banned. I had my Mastadon account in my profile. Made that account in 2007. What a shame to have something so important completely torn down.
- throw2022110401 4y agoI wonder if paleontologists specializing on extinct proboscidea are in trouble.
- camjohnson26 4y agoHere’s the link: https://mas.to/@paulg https://mas.to/@paulg
- Trouble_007 4y ago>Wow. PG did not even post any links, he pretty much just said "I have a Mastodon account." And just like that, banned. Twitter may have lost more than a million users since Elon Musk took over : https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/03/1062752/twitter-may-have-lost-more-than-a-million-users-since-elon-musk-took-over/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/11/03/1062752/twitter-... [1 hour ago - 4 comments] : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34046074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34046074 This does Not bode well; links to Mastodon, including your Mastodon account in your profile or even the mere mention of Mastodon. Is this action for the actual bleed? - Or paranoia at the current projected losses? - Competition?
- KennyBlanken 4y agoA million users is insignificant compared to the number of advertisers who have abandoned them, and it's probably causing cash flow problems which is one reason why he was so desperate to chase people away and/or fire them, and why Twitter has been liquidating equipment (that and the huge debt he's generated on Twitter's books.) Remember how Twitter has stopped paying rent on a bunch of its offices? And Musk just cashed $3.5B in Tesla stock? They probably couldn't pay the rent without people going unpaid. Not paying your rent is one thing, but not paying employees results in immediate, we-gonna-fuck-you-in-the-ass attention from governments around the world. My state treats non-payment of wages as a criminal offense by the officers of the company.
- Trouble_007 4y ago>A million users is insignificant True, however high profile account contents matter to both advertisers and other twitter uses. >Stephen Fry, who last week tweeted an image of Scrabble letters spelling out ‘goodbye’, and abandoned his 12.5 million followers! Stephen Fry quits Twitter following Elon Musk’s takeover : https://www.nme.com/en_au/news/tv/stephen-fry-quits-twitter-following-elon-musks-takeover-3346357 https://www.nme.com/en_au/news/tv/stephen-fry-quits-twitter-...
- Trouble_007 4y agoUpdate; Twitter bans posting of handles and links to Facebook, Instagram, Mastodon and more : https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/18/twitter-wont-let-you-post-your-facebook-instagram-and-mastodon-handles/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/18/twitter-wont-let-you-post-... >(Update December 19, 2022, 8:40 AM IST): Twitter has deleted the tweets announcing the policy that prohibited people from posting handles and links to other social networks. The company has also silently removed the policy page that detailed these rules.