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Iran abolishes morality police
- excerionsforte 4y agoOnly believable if enshrined in law like the abolishing of any other egregious construct.
- sepisoad 4y agoThat’s bullsh*t. The hardliners will never agree to shutdown this or make any meaningful change in their attitudes
- inglor_cz 4y agoDoes anyone trust this blood-soaked regime as far as any meaningful change goes? If the protests subside, there will be Totally Not The Old Morality Police 2.0 established in no time.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- squaredot 4y agoI agree, but I still see it as a win: it shows that the government feels like some concessions are needed, even if those are mere signaling (and a morality police 2.0 will replace the current one).
- oreally 4y agoYou could at least trust how any government of a country with foreign investors would react to internal instability. An overthrow of the current government, which seems to be what you're advocating for, does not necessarily result in better outcomes for all.
- inglor_cz 4y ago"does not necessarily result in better outcomes for all" You are right as far as the "there is always a worse alternative out there" observation goes. (Though I must note that this idea is rather trivial.) But the alternative of tolerating the current regime on and on is pretty ghastly. If Iranians are ready to be shot dead in order to protest, the situation must be grim indeed. I am not surprised the least that Russia and Iran now cooperate militarily. Birds of a feather flock together, and so do criminal regimes that waste lives of their own people.
- qwytw 4y ago> Birds of a feather flock This really does not make much sense when you think about the relationship between most Western Countries and SA, other Gulf States, Turkey, Azerbaijan etc.. Both Iran and Russia are politically and economically isolated this is more than enough to explain their closer cooperation.
- Overtonwindow 4y agoRecommend to take this with grains of salt... AlJazera reports indications buy no formal announcement. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/4/iran-prosecutor-general-signals-morality-police-suspended https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/4/iran-prosecutor-gen...
- lajosbacs 4y agoAs nntaleb postulates, once a dictatorship starts giving concessions, it is on its last legs. Therefore I do not believe this news.
- DaiPlusPlus 4y agoLots of dictatorships make concessions and continue to stick around: take Cuba with its market reforms of the 1990s and 2000s, ditto North Korea. But I don’t believe this news either, but simply because I haven’t seen any reporting that independently verifies the claim being made.
- pasabagi 4y agoIt's a different kind of concession, though. Elites like market reforms because they are positioned to get rich off them, so they can lead to a reinforcement of existing power structures.
- nextaccountic 4y agoCuba actually has a democratic process, believe it or not.
- 4str0n0mer 4y agoMany dictatorships actually do. The question is more like "is it a process that only exists on paper?". If an election ends with a 98% approval of the supreme leader (or whatever the designation), then it's probably rigged and just for show...
- sharikous 4y agoThat's significant. The ayatollahs came to power thanks to big popular support (audio cassettes of khomeini). Now a popular uprising is specifically against religious restrictions. In the meantime empirically the army has all the power of the sword. That's a step towards sidelining the ayatollahs. I guess we will see if it will evolve toward a military dictatorship (as I predict), a democracy, or the existing religious regime will manage to keep the power.
- stuaxo 4y ago
- guntherhermann 4y agoFor reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... That was 70 years ago. Are countries, their people, and their policies immutable? If this was a genuine question and not the snide remark that it appears to be, then a good place to investigate whether or not the UK government has any support for it or not would be to check out BBC Persia. De jure the BBC are not a government entity, but they are de facto. https://www.bbc.com/persian https://www.bbc.com/persian
- croes 4y agoLook what a happened in Egypt
- nkmnz 4y ago"controversial"
- meindnoch 4y agoToo little, too late.
- LightG 4y agoBut what about the morality/morality police?
- mkl95 4y agoAnd so the propaganda begins. They will be hosting sporting events within a decade.
- red_Seashell_32 4y agoBecause they have no jurisdiction do enforce that, according to article. So, it’s only change on paper, in reality same BS.
- brap 4y agoIf you've been following Iranian social media, they don't want hijab reforms, they want this regime gone. And this is their Berlin wall moment.
- baandam 4y ago
- einpoklum 4y agoWell, if you've been following Iranian elections you might reach the opposite conclusion... Now, I'm no fan of the Iranian regime, but I doubt you can make trustworthy conclusions about what the public wants from sampling posts on social media. (I wouldn't say that even elections are the end-all of what "the public wants".)
- tartoran 4y agoNo, I think you could tell quite well what people want when they put their lives on the line to make a change. Im sure there is a part of the population that is vested with the current system but that is generally a smaller part that is working in that system and which is somewhat propped up by manipulted rural masses who may also have had enough of this too.
- petesergeant 4y ago> what people want when they put their lives on the line to make a change [removed: a reference to The Troubles] A minority of people can feel very, very strongly about something without the majority of people feeling that way. > [the] part of the population [that supports the Iranian regime] is generally a smaller part Happy to believe that, but where’s the data? That some people are clearly very angry at the monstrous and evil regime there doesn’t imply that it’s the majority or even close to.
- dontbenebby 4y ago[flagged]
- yyyk 4y agoNote that the hijab law remains. I guess it will just be enforced by regular police, the same way it was enforced before 2005.
- breitling 4y ago
- mtmail 4y agoNot sure everybody understands the F in this context. "F" means paying respect, something gamers comment in video games because in some games you press a button to express that. It's not short for 'fuck'.
- thriftwy 4y agoPaying respect as in "Rest in peace, Iran"
- Rexxar 4y agoYou may be right but the last sentence of the comment doesn't seem coherent with this kind interpretation. Even if it's true, I don't think it would be a good thing if lot of people start to use this meme here.
- tsimionescu 4y agoF is just one common action button. I imagine in this context, it's not a reference to "press F to pay respects" from Call of Duty, but a reference to a different meme, usually seen as "press X to doubt" (from the L.A. Noire detective game), and either misremembered or played in a PC version by the GP.
- misterspaceman 4y ago"The morality police [...] were established under president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, [and] began patrols in 2006." I didn't realize they were formed that recently; I thought it would have been created at the start of the regime. Yashar Ali (@yashar) on Twitter has been covering these protests extensively. I'm waiting for him to comment on this, but it doesn't appear he's awake yet.
- Nursie 4y agoYeah the explicit morality police were established then and may be dissolved now, but it's not going to change the behaviour of (for example) groups like the Basij, a paramilitary youth group who roam the streets enforcing 'morality' through street violence. I don't believe this represents any real change. (edit -- One group or another has been violently enforcing dress codes in Iran since the revolution itself, the disbanding of any particular instance of this seems of little consequence, I have Iranian family and I have heard stories dating back to that time.)
- ashwagary 4y ago>may be dissolved now I doubt they will ever be dissolved by public or foreign pressure, especially since they consider the protests illegitimate.
- itshossein 4y agoNo doubt. In fact the current speaker of the parliament clearly stated this some days ago: [in Persian:] https://www.entekhab.ir/fa/news/701903/%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%84%DB%8C%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%81-%D8%A7%D9%85%DB%8C%D8%AF%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%85-%D9%87%D8%B1%DA%86%D9%87-%D8%B2%D9%88%D8%AF%D8%AA%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%86%DB%8C%D8%AA-%D8%AA%D8%AB%D8%A8%DB%8C%D8%AA-%D8%B4%D9%88%D8%AF-%D8%AA%D8%A7-%D8%AA%D8%BA%DB%8C%DB%8C%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA-%D9%85%D8%B4%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%B9-%D9%88-%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B2%D9%85-%D8%A2%D8%BA%D8%A7%D8%B2-%D8%B4%D9%88%D8%AF https://www.entekhab.ir/fa/news/701903/%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%84%DB...
- itshossein 4y agoThe morality police is here to stay (and it's not only about hijab!). They just renamed the department to "public safety police". It's said that the hijab patrols (gasht-e ershad) is gone. Not officialy yet. They are about to decriminalize having no hijab. No further arrests, but there will be a fine for those who have no hijab (believed to start from around $15. The minimun wage is $1/h here. The median is ~$2/h). There was no hijab law for the first 5yrs of the regime. The normal police officers were to enforce the hijab law afterwards. It wasn't effective enough so they came up with the idea of having "hijab patrols" by the so-called morality police.
- turpialito 4y agoIt won't bring back those they killed, and they're not abolishing islamic rule either. Bullshit gesture, IMO.
- dspillett 4y agoIt may only be gone in name too, with the people in the grind folded into other security groups or even ending up in "private" security concerns that the regime contracts and doesn't officially monitor closely. I expect women and others the morality police targeted & abused won't be much safer, if at all, as a result of this change.
- codewiz 4y agoAl Jazeera coverage: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/4/iran-prosecutor-general-signals-morality-police-suspended https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/4/iran-prosecutor-gen...
- keriati1 4y ago-
- dontbenebby 4y agoDo you work for chatGPT or something? I've seen a lot of really spammy people use phrasing similar to the beginning of your post lately. I'm not flagging you or downvoting you, but you made me raise my eyebrows, I can't tell if posts like these are authentic interaction. (I don't mind if someone's a sincere fan of a service, there's places I've plugged, for lack of better phrasing, if I've found value from them, but I'm trying to cut back on uncompensated endorsements since folks abused the spirit of trying to respect good work.)
- keriati1 4y agoI just played with it around and wanted to compare what an article about this event would look like. But maybe it was a bad idea to post it, if we want to stay on topic.
- dontbenebby 4y agoNo it's fine, I just was being hypervigilant about spam, I apologize.
- h11h 4y ago"Iran state television is reporting that the morality police has definitely NOT been removed" https://twitter.com/borzou/status/1599396059251253249 https://twitter.com/borzou/status/1599396059251253249
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- AzzieElbab 4y agoNYT reprinted the same thing and I am completely lost as to why https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/world/middleeast/iran-morality-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/04/world/middleeast/iran-mor...
- LegitShady 4y agothe paper of record doesn't appear to post a central list of retractions and errors
- nitwit005 4y agohttps://www.nytimes.com/section/corrections https://www.nytimes.com/section/corrections
- timcavel 4y ago
- dontbenebby 4y agoThanks for this, I saw this on a domain I didn't recognize much earlier. In general is the Hindustan times pretty trustworthy? I mostly know about SE Asia, China and North Korean news sources outside the typical English language EU stuff, but sometimes I see things like this and am not sure if I should trust them and wait a bit and my usual source for anything adjacent to the Middle East or India (Al Jazeera) often lags on things I'd expect them to report much quicker if they actually support democracy and free expression and not just whataboutism.
- r721 4y agoThis thread provides some context: https://twitter.com/borzou/status/1599344163769978880 https://twitter.com/borzou/status/1599344163769978880 "Iran abolishes morality police" is a bad way to describe what really happened it seems: >So amazing how many news outlets are going with the "Iran abolishes morality police" line based on a convoluted quote from one official. In reality morality police have been inactive since protests started, but there is no substantive news on their future. >Update: Iran state television is reporting that the morality police has definitely NOT been removed.
- dontbenebby 4y agoI'm not on Twitter, probably because I blocked Elon.
- r721 4y agoThread reader version: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1599344163769978880.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1599344163769978880.html
- dontbenebby 4y agoThanks, I hate how Internet Archive requires Javascript, I browse on this nym in Tor to avoid malware and avoid crossing the streams^H^H^H^H^H^H^H circuits.
- 4y ago
- hairofadog 4y agoIt’s worth noting that Iran was a democracy until the 1953, when the US and UK supported a coup to install a corrupt dictator so they could avoid paying oil fees. The 1979 Iranian revolution was the pendulum swinging back hard the other way. I’m in no way supporting Iran’s religious extremism or current government, but they are monsters that we created. The coup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat?... Edit: it has been pointed out that the pendulum metaphor isn’t quite right, and that makes sense to me, but I’ll leave it since people have responded to it.
- jahnu 4y agoClassic case of blowback Which reminds me of this great ADF song https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nlFlhA4e56I&feature=emb_title https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nlFlhA4e56I&feature=emb_title
- itshossein 4y agoIt's way far more complicated than simply a coup. Though it defenitly was a terrible thing to happen. Iran has never had an effective justice system (religous reasons / kings' economic monopolies). Without one, nothing like a democracy is possible. It was democratic just on the paper.
- pm90 4y agoDemocratic forms of Government don’t just materialize out of thin air. They start off pretty messy with a mix of democratic and un democratic elements. Institutional capacity is then built and strengthened over time. Iran was certainly on a more democratic path then.
- itshossein 4y agoI doubt that. I mean, I see a very little difference. We even had a harsh anti-hijab dress code then. And we still have elections. Perhaps the oil industry made the real difference. As Daron Acemolgu stated beautifully, in a country with an absolute economic power (a family, a corporation, a foreign country, etc) which controls the Army at the same time, there is no hope for a real change. Even a gradual one. It all starts from the moment when a king or a government starts to 'need' their people and give them some real power in return. https://scholar.harvard.edu/jrobinson/publications/economic-origins-dictatorship-and-democracy https://scholar.harvard.edu/jrobinson/publications/economic-...
- ethotool 4y agoAmerican outrage towards the rights of women in Iran is so fake it’s comical. They just banned abortion in several states and not a peep from anyone. Where is the outrage for American women?
- hairofadog 4y agoI don’t disagree with the point you’re making and I too am angry about abortion bans but I’d hardly say there was “not a peep from anyone”. I heard and continue to hear (and make) a lot of peeps.
- lbayes 4y agoJust a warning not to click this link on a mobile phone. Every spammy popup and dark pattern possible.
- firstSpeaker 4y agoA good, but small step forward. Generally speaking for this to have any meaning and takes any effect, being the morality police must become punishable by law. Aka, harassing people for their clothing should become an offence that a judge should rule about. I read about the government structure and all the parallel forces exist in Iran and I doubt officially abolishing the morality police is going to abolish systematic harassment of people in the street by Basij or other organised/semi organised forces.
- verisimi 4y ago"Iran abolishes morality police" .. and now, can we? I'm a bit tired off all the bull crap that is no longer allowed to be said, as if self-policing oneself and being unable to honestly state one's opinion, is the way to become more authentic. As if repressing oneself and suppressing others could ever lead to a better society.
- malermeister 4y agoOf course repressing oneself can lead to a better society. If pedophiles, people with violent urges etc are able to suppress their urges for example, don't you think that's a good thing? Should everyone just be acting out their id's desires unchecked?
- mdp2021 4y agoVery clearly the poster is talking about restraints caused by vocal sub-cultural shifts, not about pre-frontal abilities.
- malermeister 4y agoThe two are interrelated. Human sacrifice used to be a common cultural practice in many parts of the world. In Europe, old men used to marry prebuscent teenagers. We suppressed those things through vocal cultural shifts.
- mdp2021 4y agoAgain: the OP is not condemning vocal cultural shifts that demand restraint of unreasonable behaviour. The OP is complaining about censorship.
- malermeister 4y agoYou say tomato, I say tomato.
- 4y ago
- tartoran 4y agoI believe this is just a way for the Iranian establishment to obtain a respite of momentum, regroup and then come back in full force, incarcerating as many demonstrators as possible. I hope the Iranians double down on making a meaningful change where people guilty of violence against protestors get punished and actually change the government a bit. It’s possible a complete overthrow is nearly impossible without a lot more casualties but this ruling seems like a false victory to me.
- masihyeganeh 4y agoIt's just a lie. Don't fall for the propaganda of the regime
- linuxftw 4y agoIt's so easy to judge other cultures through the lens of our own. All nations enforce some form of dress code in public spaces, who's the arbiter of what's morally acceptable? If other countries think their behavior is so repugnant, they should open their doors to unlimited refugees. If their atrocities are so great, build support and fight a war.
- behnamoh 4y agoThe thing is: hijab was not part of the Iranian culture anyway. It was enforced on women by a religious minority who took power.
- TheWeirdDev 4y agoI live in Iran and this is total BS. They did NOT abolish it.
- mamsoudi 4y agoWell it’s not gone (really), it’ll probably change name and still operate to terrorise people and youngsters who want to live a free life. At most another propaganda scheme by the -frightened- Islamic Republic to calm the people who take their lives in their hands everyday and go to streets to protest the very being of the regime. It’s vital for people around the world to stop spreading these propaganda and understand that this is not what the people want. People are taking it to the street to take down a corrupt regime that has threatened its people and taken away their freedom and will away from them. Abolishing the Morality Police is not going to change their ideology.
- mamsoudi 4y ago