20 ms·

Brave launches private search ads

169 points by jarsin 4y ago

franczesko 4y ago
I've been testing Brave search for some time now (switched from DDG after 2y) and I have to say that I'm very impressed with the quality of results to the degree that I'm wondering if they are simply scraping Google.
- pleb_nz 4y ago
  Can't be scraping google as their results are crap. Kagi is good if you haven't tried it. Best search engine I've used in years IMO and I've tried them all.
Proven 4y ago
Can Brave ad blocker block Brave ads?
- dhaavi 4y ago
  "can" or "does"? ;) I guess it does not. How far will they go though? Will uBlock in Brave be able to block the ads?
- rglullis 4y ago
  I asked the same thing to Luke Mulks (VP of Business at Brave) about an year ago when search got out of Beta and he "promised" that the behavior from the built-in ad blocker would be the same as it is any other page. IOW, the ad blocker does not block first-party ads unless you set the browser to "aggressively block ads and trackers".
- orangeoxidation 4y ago
  It does not. I find the wild, anti-competitive cross product "synergy" the big tech companies are employing just as concerning as privacy violations. (E.g. Google search pushing Chrome and other services, Chrome sync logging users into YouTube, Android, Windows pushing One Drive, Apple music not paying the Apple store tax, Facebook harvesting WhatsApp data etc.) Brave joining those practices leaves an ugly taste.
  - INeedMoreRam 4y ago
    But will using UBlock Origin, pihole, Quad9 DNS, and a VPN block ads? I think the answer is yes, since I am yet to see a Brave ad.
  - hunterb123 4y ago
    You are wrong, the built-in ad blocker does block first party ads in aggressive mode or if you manually add a rule.
- w0ts0n 4y ago
  Yes. Same rules as google. When in aggressive mode, shields will block first party ads. No exceptions.
- princevegeta89 4y ago
  Maybe, but I would not trust it. Just install uBlock Origin and you're free to completely turn off "Brave Shields" or whatever it is called.
dhaavi 4y ago
Their example screenshot shows their own VPN as the first result for "VPN". Reminds me of this other search engine.
- thijser 4y ago
  The "other" search engine (you mean Google with Google maps/shopping recommendations etc. right?) didn't buy ads in its own system competing on a level playing field with competitors, but created new space for its own products that was inaccessible to any competitors. In other words, Brave seems to be doing the right thing here by promoting its own products in the same way that any competing product can.
  - bogwog 4y ago
    Don't assume good intentions when malice is equally likely... at least in this technology world we live in. Companies that are actually on the user's side are very rare, so you're more likely to be correct (and safe) by never giving tech companies the benefit of the doubt.
  - three_seagrass 4y ago
    Google Shopping is just paid search ads with pictures. I'm sure Brave will add that functionality soon too.
- NayamAmarshe 4y ago
  > Their example screenshot shows their own VPN as the first result for "VPN". Reminds me of this other search engine. They do not do this in reality. When you search for VPN, the results are organic.
TremendousJudge 4y ago
What's the idea here? I was under the impression that one of the selling points of Brave is that you don't get ads when browsing. Doesn't this go against that?
- i_am_jl 4y ago
  Brave's key selling point was that it respects privacy, and it blocked ads because web advertising is usually antithetical to privacy. I imagine their idea here is that "ads aren't bad if they respect privacy/don't weaken security", but I'm thinking most Brave users are going to disagree.
- mattboardman 4y ago
  Brave has never tried to be ad free. Instead the goal is to encourage less intrusive and more benign ads.
  - Barrin92 4y ago
    hard to see how that meaningfully differentiates them from everyone else given that this is what all the ad platforms seem to be moving towards with topic/cohort based ads and third party cookies on the way out.
    - mattboardman 4y ago
      I guess they have failed in marketing the differentiation then (if there is one). I was just clarifying the product in question, never promised an ad free product.
    - antonok 4y ago
      Brave's been blocking third-party cookies from the beginning; Firefox and Safari followed in 2019 and 2020 respectively. Third party cookies might not have been on the way out if Brave hadn't taken that first step already.
  - deltree7 4y ago
    Only a HNer will twist themselves in a logic knot claiming "I prefer to be bombarded with ads that aren't relevant to me"
ohCh6zos 4y ago
If you haven't checked out Kagi, it has been a pleasure to use.
- chomp 4y ago
  I'll add to this, it's completely replaced my work search, and I haven't fallen back to a google search in months, even for very arcane Linux kernel internals. You can even manually prioritize certain sites, giving you a way to have a hand in building your own search experience.
- pndy 4y ago
  No way to test it by yourself - you can try the provided examples; it relies on others indexes and mentions in documentation "You can think of Kagi as a "search client"". It requires an account in the first place and I can't see a word about pricing. Pass for me but maybe someone will be interested
  - bogwog 4y ago
    Why does it matter where the indexes come from? As a user, I only care about the results. Also, idk if I'm grandfathered in to an old price or anything, but my subscription is $10/mo.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- mind-blight 4y ago
  They seem really cool. But, I was reading the FAQ, and they claim it costs about $1 to process 80 searches. That seems extremely high. I would have expected that the up-front cost of creating and storing indexes is very expensive, but the cost of user searches to be so low that they're nearly negligible. Okay, it sounds like they lose money with each new added user
  - gabeio 4y ago
    I believe they are doing some search aggregation from multiple sources and from what they say they do not seem to be caching results much.
iLoveOncall 4y ago
I've rarely seen a product become so bad so quickly. Brave started out with great promises and has consistently under-delivered since.
- prepend 4y ago
  What problems do you have that gotten worse? I don’t use Brave search very much but it seems equivalent to duck duck go and its results are ok.
  - all2 4y ago
    Generally I've found brave's results to be better on a wide swath of topics. Long form, (mostly) well written pages are top of the stack. Image search and video search lags behind other search engines significantly, though.
  - iLoveOncall 4y ago
    By "product" I meant the whole Brave ecosystem actually.
    - hunterb123 4y ago
      Okay what problems in the whole ecosystem do you mean? You stated your opinion, but you forgot to add your reasoning.
      - iLoveOncall 4y ago
        What this guy said basically: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33820597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33820597
        prepend 4y ago
        I’m still not sure how this describes a getting worse scenario. The dumb crypto stuff has been there since the beginning and hasn’t changed much at all. I see them adding products like search and it seems like Brave is improving. I think it’s better than Chrome for the ad blocking. It’s better than FireFox for performance.
rabuse 4y ago
Everything free, becomes ad-infested. Nothing is free, and it's really annoying seeing company after company make empty promises about privacy and "being different", then switching up when their investors start breathing down their necks. Just be honest from the start.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  At this point, it's not just free things that are becoming infested.
  - sph 4y ago
    Yeah, they're so ubiquitous people have gotten used to them. Companies have learned that if you put ads in paid products, people grumble and moan but still keep paying for your product. The future is ads everywhere, paid or free, doesn't matter. More revenue out of every user with little effort, shareholders love this stuff.
    - vorticalbox 4y ago
      I recently installed windows 10 on my Linux box and the amount of ads in the start menu was shocking. Though I guess it's no different than dvds having ads after you paid for them.
  - princevegeta89 4y ago
    Agreed. Outside software, there's a growing plague as well. - Buying an $1200+ iPhone that doesn't come with an adapter. - BMW charging you $10+ bucks per month to turn on seat heaters that came with your already expensive car - Mercedes 0-60mph acceleration booster "unlock fee" for $1200/year - Tesla woes with frequent "upgrades" locked behind paywalls. - The ironic micro-transactions in Mobile games. When summed up, they are only "macro" with millions of bucks coming in every day. This has infested gaming outside Mobile as well. I'm not ever gonna touch console gaming again.
- shishy 4y ago
  I dunno if it's fair to say "just be honest from the start" -- they might have genuinely believed it but had to face the reality because they set themselves up poorly with how they raised / their finances / etc.
pocketarc 4y ago
Ads seem to be a modern virus that infects everything. Everyone who claims "no ads", eventually turns their back on that once they get big enough, even companies with more than enough money from their own products (e.g. Apple, Netflix). I've never seen anything so powerful. I guess it comes down to "no business would say no to free money", but it really is incredible.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  But you need money. Without money, whole businesses is pointless. With financial crisis and ridiculous inflation, who cares about ads? Well... If they try sell you a product, it is harmless. But with selling an ideas and manipulation of masses, that is diferent story. I guess propaganda is a right definition.
- paulcole 4y ago
  Did Apple or Brave ever say “no ads”? In the case of Brave (and every business), somebody’s got to hand money to someone in order to keep the lights on.
  - derefr 4y ago
    Brave (the browser) has a built-in ad-blocker, the existence of which could be taken as an implicit stance by its creators on how they feel about ads.
    - smt88 4y ago
      > an implicit stance by its creators on how they feel about ads Like Apple and AdBlock, the stance is that they want to sell their own ads in the spaces where they're blocking other people's
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      The browser also has a built-in ad-replacer which tells you even more about how they feel about ads.
BigFreeWilly 4y ago
From the article: During this beta phase, Brave Search users will see text-based ads in search results. However, during the beta period, Brave users who have opted-in to Brave Private Ads and are using the latest version of Brave will not see Search ads, since these new ad units are not yet eligible for BAT earnings. We’re actively working to integrate Brave Rewards with Brave Search, and hope to make Search ads eligible for BAT earnings in the coming months.
musk_micropenis 4y ago
A lot of angry comments in here, but the post says there's an ad-free paid version, > Ads will give users the option to use our independent search engine with ads that don’t track them, or to sign up for ad-free paid search Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Or do you expect software companies to work for free? (Presumably not the companies you work for).
- derefr 4y ago
  Some users — possibly Brave's core target audience — might complain that there's no way to remain anonymous in this flow: either you allow Brave to leak your info to advertisers, or you allow Brave to leak your info to Stripe in the payment flow. There's (currently) no way to pay for a Brave Premium account with crypto or through any other anonymous mechanism.
  - musk_micropenis 4y ago
    > either you allow Brave to leak your info to advertisers Can you expand on this? According to the article the ads are privacy-preserving but I'm open to hearing otherwise. There's not a lot of detail in the article.
    - INeedMoreRam 4y ago
      Assuming we can trust Brave, the article clearly states: "Brave Search only uses your search query, country, and device type to show you ads, and does not keep any kind of profile of your searches." My question to somebody who understands this more than me, by collecting query, country, device type, is that enough info to identify users? Doesn't Brave automatically get User Agent strings, too?
      - musk_micropenis 4y ago
        Even if that is enough to identify users, you'd have to show evidence that that information is being handed to advertisers, which is what GP accused them of.
pueblo3616 4y ago
Do you work for free? A company has to make money to survive and pay its employees. Brave blocks third-party ads, not all ads.
- bogwog 4y ago
  > A company has to make money to survive and pay its employees. So why do they give their product away for free? To lure naive/optimistic people in so they can be exploited later? Why should a company like that survive?
  - pueblo3616 4y ago
    Yeah sure, rant more on Brave, and stay silent about Google.
    - bogwog 4y ago
      So you're saying that anything Brave does is okay because they're not Google? FYI Brave isn't the only company that isn't Google.
- Chabsff 4y ago
  Maybe it's simply just not commercially viable in any way shape or form to build an ethically responsible web browser and distribute it for free.
mberning 4y ago
I have been enjoying Kagi. Don’t mind the $10 per month to support something that caters to me rather than advertisers.
- INeedMoreRam 4y ago
  Did you create a new “bogus”email address when you signed up for their service to hide your identity? Or were you okay with giving them your real email address? I feel uncomfortable potentially having my searches linked to my real email and/or name.
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    Who cares about email when you gave them your real name with credit card.
  - vile_wretch 4y ago
    Not really an answer to your question but I have my password manager integrated with my email host and can generate a new masked email with one click when creating new accounts. Not sure how it is as far as privacy (Bitwarden can't read my email, only create new masked emails - the option to allow read access is provided however) but as far as being able to disable problematic addresses on a whim without changing my main is pretty great.
  - gabeio 4y ago
    I don’t but honestly I don’t search for things often that I need anonymity, I use kagi more because it seems better than the other search engines at getting the results I care about at the top and not a huge amount of ads or junk posts at the top. They claim to keep the searches as anonymous as possible, and they have been through an audit so hopefully true.
  - hosteur 4y ago
    Never mind the email address. If you pay them they have your real identity. This is really what prevents me from using them. Although the search does seem to be superb.
Archipelagia 4y ago
Not the biggest fan of Brave myself, but they seem to actually get extra points in my eyes for adding the paid option. It's not like you can pay $3 to Google to get them to stop surveilling you. On a bigger note, monetizing search without ads seem to be a pretty tricky business model. Especially if you want to move beyond being a niche product; even an average HN reader would be hard to convince to pay for a regular subscription, so with the general public I can't imaging the hassle. What are other ways search engines could monetize without taking money either from users or from people that want to show something to them?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- puchatek 4y ago
  I would pay Google 30 just for search+maps of it came without tracking and ads
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    They'd happily take your money and track and ad-bomb you anyway, the ads will be ingeniously disguised as "valuable information" but they'd be there.
  - INeedMoreRam 4y ago
    My solution is using uBlock Origin without signing in to Google and a VPN. I'm not concerned about ads because I literally never see them. And uBlock blocks the tracking. Do you not use uBlock Origin? https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpa...
    - t0bia_s 4y ago
      Your browser has unique fingerprint regardless of VPN or uBlock. If you want be anonymous, use Tor.
  - 4y ago
kernal 4y ago
Brave, the FTX of browsers.
- INeedMoreRam 4y ago
  Comments like yours, reminds me of the trash on Reddit. Let me guess you use Chrome?
  - kernal 4y ago
    The duplicitous behavior and business model of Brave is trash. >Let me guess you use Chrome? Speaking of trash reddit comments...
pretext 4y ago
Genuinely interested why do people keep using Brave instead of LibreWolf or ungoogled-chromium? EDIT: LibreWolf Browser: A custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom. https://librewolf.net/ https://librewolf.net/ ungoogled-chromium: A lightweight approach to removing Google web service dependency https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium
- lbwtaylor 4y ago
  It just works. It blocks almost all ads. It has a simple button to turn ad blocking off when I need to use websites that don't work with ad blockers. I don't need to fiddle with an extension. I can use it on android without effort. This is about brave search, which I have never used. I don't use the brave homepage, so I never saw the homepage ads that folks complained about. HN seems to hate Brave for some reason. But it has worked perfectly for years. I don't care if it's perfect privacy -- not sure I ever felt Brave promised that. I have never heard of the browsers you mention. I tried to use Chromium for a while, but you have to find distributions that include basic features and it was a hassle. Not a big hassle, but made me stick with Brave.
  - pleb_nz 4y ago
    Brave is chromium though isn't it? I think some if the hate comes from people who would like to see more variety in the browser market. At the moment we're heading to a single dominant force of chromium based browsers. And history has shown what happens when an entity holds all the cards and there is less choice.
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  Or Firefox. Especially with Manifest v3 looming.
  - pretext 4y ago
    LibreWolf is just a Firefox with telemetry removed.
Animats 4y ago
Ads from the browser itself? Do not want.
btbuildem 4y ago
HN could do a better title, it seems almost like it's clickbait. The original article title is "Brave debuts privacy-preserving ads in its search engine" - so the HN title kind of implies the opposite. I think paying for content / services is the only way out of.. this. This thing we're in where Advertiser is King. This ecosystem that breeds dark patterns and skews all discourse towards the uninformed and adversarial.
- dang 4y ago
  What would be a better (i.e. more accurate and neutral) title? The article's title sounds too pressreleasey to me, which is a form of misleading+linkbait in its own right, so it was a legit title to rewrite, given HN's rule ("Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait" - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
  - soundnote 4y ago
    I feel like replacing debuts with launches in the original title would do the trick?
satvikpendem 4y ago
After all the Brave controversies [0] I'm not sure why anyone uses Brave anymore. They took creators' money while ostensibly "collecting" it for them, and they inserted their own affiliate links when you visited certain sites. It's just shady behavior all around. I mean, when you have your own "Controversies" section on Wikipedia, you know there's something wrong. Especially with Manifest v3 looming which would kill modern ad blockers, I see no reason not to use Firefox. Sure, Brave and other Chromium browsers might say they'll fork Chromium, but how long will that last, really? It's no joke to maintain a fork. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser)#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser)#Controvers...
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  Will manifest 3 really kill modern ad blockers? Like adguard and ublock won’t work as they do now in some upcoming Blink/Chromium version?
  - SeanAnderson 4y ago
    They will work but not as well.
    - NoGravitas 4y ago
      Correct: they will work about as well as DNS-based adblockers. The "cosmetic blocks" you depend on in uBlock Origin to block same-origin and in-page elements, the things that make Fandom wikis usable, will not work.
      - rightbyte 4y ago
        I had to check what you meant and turned of uBlock on a Fandom wiki. Ye, well, those popup ads are really distracting. Even pop-up video ads. Following your scrolling around. It's good to remind oneself about how the internet looks like to most people ...
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
i13e 4y ago
If you don't like the ads I'm sure there will be ways to block them. Every search engine has ads, StartPage, DDG, Google, etc... None have an option to pay. I don't see what's wrong with them keeping the lights on, every startup can't burn money forever.
james_pm 4y ago
Or, use DuckDuckGo which allows you to turn off ads without paying.
- NayamAmarshe 4y ago
  Yeah, and also powers Bing. So all you're doing is feeding Bing with search queries for their own algorithm.
  - propogandist 4y ago
    ddg also manipulates content to push certain agendas
enpojames 4y ago
I haven't seen any ads so far. Must be early.
- secretj 4y ago
  Yeah our volume is intentionally small right now, as we closely monitor performance. We'll be scaling up as we feel good about what we see.
travisgriggs 4y ago
This statement (second paragraph) > Ads are a key part of search engines, helping to facilitate the free and open exchange of information on the Web, and to connect users to helpful products and services related to their search terms. Is just non sequitur for me. It's said in such a smooth way, in such a gaslight-ish way, that your tempted to just accept it. But it actually makes no sense to me. I get what ads are key to: revenue, keeping the lights on, that sort of thing. But I don't see how they increase the free and open exchange of information on the web. If I sat down with a troubled couple who was having a hard time communicating, I wouldn't periodically interrupt and say "let's pause a moment for an ad. I think that's going to really open up a better and more free exchange between the both of you." I also don't understand how it is helpful in helping me connect to products and services in a helpful way. An index (yellow pages) of what's available would help me search for a product. A rating system that wasn't gamed might help me make a selection that was best for me. But ads? We inherently distrust that we're being swayed/manipulated by them. I need to update the insulation in my attic, so I'm in the market to get some newer insulation. To wit, I've called a number of people I know who are in the insulation/builder business to get their information. Not a single one said "well, here's my opinion, but what you really need to do is check the ads, they're going to be your best source of information about how to proceed."
- hunterb123 4y ago
  You've never opened a newspaper up to the classifieds? Those are ads. You may not know of a tree cutting service until you look there. You may not know where to get a car part until you look there. Having ads riddled throughout the internet is one thing, but having a directory where ads are supposed to be is another. Yes billboards are annoying, that doesn't make classifieds equal. (oh and you could just pay $3/mo or not use the service if you have no use for classifieds)
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    But there's a difference if you're searching for a tree cutting service in the yellow pages, or if you're googling a chainsaw sharpener, and you get a tree cutting service ad.
GaryNumanVevo 4y ago
Is anyone surprised? Brave was trying to push their own ad network years ago with the BAT (Brave Attention Token) to "pay" websites for eyes on their page. And guess how they paid for it? By running their own ads over native web content. Edit: Not sure why people are downvoting this. Brave announced the BAT in 2017 and they outlined their plans for an alternative ad network then. https://twitter.com/AttentionToken/status/844929203438964736?s=20&t=fo1uGgUYQhBIh0BTQ3fIvA https://twitter.com/AttentionToken/status/844929203438964736...
- soundnote 4y ago
  Probably because Brave doesn't run their own ads over native web content. Brave Rewards ads are opt-in things delivered as native OS toaster popups and unrelated to your browsing activity.
Pilottwave 4y ago
lots of criticism for brave in this thread. they are the best privacy browser at the moment based on leakage tests for default settings. they got a working add-blocker by default. they have privacy preserving ads because of local in browser matching, your data never leaves the browser for the ads, the ads come to you! they even pay you for watching the ads, and enable you to support creators. I feel we finally have a privacy respecting browser normal people and tech enthousiast can use, and it puzzles me how it's painted here. let's stay objective if you don't like the web3 stuff or the blockchain based rewards don't use it. But the web3 space is booming and brave has been nice way to interact with it.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  >But the web3 space is booming Is it?
  - Pilottwave 4y ago
    lots of projects, and interest has boomed last year because there has been lots of money sloshing around. but it's very much the wild west. just look for cool tech and not for get rich quick schemes and your bound to find something to your liking!
comte7092 4y ago
Possibly a completely dumb idea, but I’ve wondered for a while if there would be value in building an open data web index, something which would allow competing providers to offer different search algorithms on top of. I don’t know enough about the technical details about building a search engine, so perhaps this isn’t feasible because the algorithm and the index need to be tightly coupled to each other, but my hunch is that it would be beneficial for the web if there were an open street map of search indexes.
- pythux 4y ago
  You might like Goggles (also a Brave feature): https://search.brave.com/help/goggles https://search.brave.com/help/goggles Disclaimer: I work at Brave.
  - comte7092 4y ago
    I am a user of brave search actually, I’m glad you guys released the product! Really more than anything else, I think about how important search is to the open web/maintaining a healthy internet. And by that, I mean that I don’t think having one dominant search provider is a good thing. There are a lot of small upstarts that I’m happy to use such as brave/ddg/etc, but given the fact that many of those use bing as a backend I am left wondering how viable they’ll be in unseating google/bing (I know brave maintains its own index, which is a big plus).
grammers 4y ago
I prefer paying for services, e.g. Tutanota, Anonaddy, Bitwarden, Guardian. Why do people take everything on the web for free? Of course, companies need to make money - if not with subs, then with ads. What else should they do?
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  They should put ethics before their Tesla's and summer beach houses.
  - MrMan 4y ago
    its their free speech
charlesrocket 4y ago
As private as their tor
Faint 4y ago
Would you trust Google's ( or other search provider's) ads more, if they had a separately browsable "classifieds" site, not unlike Craigslist, that the search ads would be search results from (reach modified by how much the ads were paid with, ofc.). Anyway, when you saw an add, you could click through it like now, or click to browse a relevant section of the classifieds site. Which would also work as a catalog of all paid and also unpaid ads the search provider carried?
amelius 4y ago
So, let me get this straight. They will block ads on the internet, only to replace them by their own ads? So the money will go to them instead of the creators of the content you're watching?
- soundnote 4y ago
  Yes and no. They have a browser with a normal adblocking function. They serve ads themselves, and use these to fund services like Brave News, Brave Talk and Brave Search. They have an option for the browser to use the OS's toaster popup system to show you ads at predetermined intervals. If you sign up for this, Brave will use a part of their ad revenue to buy BAT from the open market and give it to users who watched these toaster popups. They have a tipping service where content creators, commenters on eg. Twitter and websites can be tipped with BAT. The people who got tips now have stuff Brave regularly buys from the open market with their ad revenues. So they serve ads on their own services same as anyone else, they just build them to be privacy respecting. The tipping service + toaster popups combo is intended to replace some of the lost revenue from adblockers like Brave Shields and uBO nuking most ads since most ads are tracking driven. But ads on websites are never replaced, just blocked the same way uBO blocks them, with the same filter lists.
  - pleb_nz 4y ago
    Yeah that doesn't sound much better when you say it like that imo.
j2kun 4y ago
> Brave Search only uses your search query, country, and device type to show you ads This, by definition, is not "fully private."
heywoodlh 4y ago
I'm not a fan of ads at all. But I am curious, is there an alternative way to provide a free service while still making money? Unrelated, it would be cool to be able to self host an actual search engine (not talking about privacy-focused front ends like Searx -- but I'm grateful for projects like it) without having to store petabytes of data. Is there a self-hostable search engine alternative that doesn't just use another backend search engine service like Bing?
- bishplsok 4y ago
  Actually Useful(tm) result out of the recent influx of AI hype -- "search engine" trained on, by and large, how people recommend links on sites like Reddit. It's a little hit or miss in my experience still, but when it hits it's legitimately brilliant, and mostly avoids the "Google search results are useless and dominated by SEO-farm garbage" issue. https://metaphor.systems/ https://metaphor.systems/
  - heywoodlh 4y ago
    Whoa, this is really cool! Is it self-hostable/open source?
AraceliHarker 4y ago
I think Brave Ads is sophomoric to say that they don't track users when Apple, not to mention Facebook and Google, understand that the effective operation of Internet advertising is to track users. Blocking other companies' ads and posting their own ads instead is unbecoming and also reminds me of AdBlock Plus.
- DavideNL 4y ago
  The big difference to me seems that Brave actually gives you the possibility to pay them, instead of showing you ads and tracking you. None of the other Big Tech companies do this. Seems quite reasonable! in the end someone has to pay the bills after all...
jl2718 4y ago
> ads that [don’t] track them Does that mean “can’t” or “promise not to”.

169 points by jarsin 4y ago

I've been testing Brave search for some time now (switched from DDG after 2y) and I have to say that I'm very impressed with the quality of results to the degree that I'm wondering if they are simply scraping Google.

pleb_nz 4y ago
Can't be scraping google as their results are crap. Kagi is good if you haven't tried it. Best search engine I've used in years IMO and I've tried them all.

Proven 4y ago

Can Brave ad blocker block Brave ads?

dhaavi 4y ago
"can" or "does"? ;) I guess it does not. How far will they go though? Will uBlock in Brave be able to block the ads?
rglullis 4y ago
I asked the same thing to Luke Mulks (VP of Business at Brave) about an year ago when search got out of Beta and he "promised" that the behavior from the built-in ad blocker would be the same as it is any other page. IOW, the ad blocker does not block first-party ads unless you set the browser to "aggressively block ads and trackers".
orangeoxidation 4y ago
It does not. I find the wild, anti-competitive cross product "synergy" the big tech companies are employing just as concerning as privacy violations. (E.g. Google search pushing Chrome and other services, Chrome sync logging users into YouTube, Android, Windows pushing One Drive, Apple music not paying the Apple store tax, Facebook harvesting WhatsApp data etc.) Brave joining those practices leaves an ugly taste.
- INeedMoreRam 4y ago
  But will using UBlock Origin, pihole, Quad9 DNS, and a VPN block ads? I think the answer is yes, since I am yet to see a Brave ad.
- hunterb123 4y ago
  You are wrong, the built-in ad blocker does block first party ads in aggressive mode or if you manually add a rule.
w0ts0n 4y ago
Yes. Same rules as google. When in aggressive mode, shields will block first party ads. No exceptions.
princevegeta89 4y ago
Maybe, but I would not trust it. Just install uBlock Origin and you're free to completely turn off "Brave Shields" or whatever it is called.

dhaavi 4y ago

Their example screenshot shows their own VPN as the first result for "VPN". Reminds me of this other search engine.

thijser 4y ago
The "other" search engine (you mean Google with Google maps/shopping recommendations etc. right?) didn't buy ads in its own system competing on a level playing field with competitors, but created new space for its own products that was inaccessible to any competitors. In other words, Brave seems to be doing the right thing here by promoting its own products in the same way that any competing product can.
- bogwog 4y ago
  Don't assume good intentions when malice is equally likely... at least in this technology world we live in. Companies that are actually on the user's side are very rare, so you're more likely to be correct (and safe) by never giving tech companies the benefit of the doubt.
- three_seagrass 4y ago
  Google Shopping is just paid search ads with pictures. I'm sure Brave will add that functionality soon too.
NayamAmarshe 4y ago
> Their example screenshot shows their own VPN as the first result for "VPN". Reminds me of this other search engine. They do not do this in reality. When you search for VPN, the results are organic.

TremendousJudge 4y ago

What's the idea here? I was under the impression that one of the selling points of Brave is that you don't get ads when browsing. Doesn't this go against that?

i_am_jl 4y ago
Brave's key selling point was that it respects privacy, and it blocked ads because web advertising is usually antithetical to privacy. I imagine their idea here is that "ads aren't bad if they respect privacy/don't weaken security", but I'm thinking most Brave users are going to disagree.
mattboardman 4y ago
Brave has never tried to be ad free. Instead the goal is to encourage less intrusive and more benign ads.
- Barrin92 4y ago
  hard to see how that meaningfully differentiates them from everyone else given that this is what all the ad platforms seem to be moving towards with topic/cohort based ads and third party cookies on the way out.
  - mattboardman 4y ago
    I guess they have failed in marketing the differentiation then (if there is one). I was just clarifying the product in question, never promised an ad free product.
  - antonok 4y ago
    Brave's been blocking third-party cookies from the beginning; Firefox and Safari followed in 2019 and 2020 respectively. Third party cookies might not have been on the way out if Brave hadn't taken that first step already.
- deltree7 4y ago
  Only a HNer will twist themselves in a logic knot claiming "I prefer to be bombarded with ads that aren't relevant to me"

ohCh6zos 4y ago

If you haven't checked out Kagi, it has been a pleasure to use.

chomp 4y ago
I'll add to this, it's completely replaced my work search, and I haven't fallen back to a google search in months, even for very arcane Linux kernel internals. You can even manually prioritize certain sites, giving you a way to have a hand in building your own search experience.
pndy 4y ago
No way to test it by yourself - you can try the provided examples; it relies on others indexes and mentions in documentation "You can think of Kagi as a "search client"". It requires an account in the first place and I can't see a word about pricing. Pass for me but maybe someone will be interested
- bogwog 4y ago
  Why does it matter where the indexes come from? As a user, I only care about the results. Also, idk if I'm grandfathered in to an old price or anything, but my subscription is $10/mo.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
mind-blight 4y ago
They seem really cool. But, I was reading the FAQ, and they claim it costs about $1 to process 80 searches. That seems extremely high. I would have expected that the up-front cost of creating and storing indexes is very expensive, but the cost of user searches to be so low that they're nearly negligible. Okay, it sounds like they lose money with each new added user
- gabeio 4y ago
  I believe they are doing some search aggregation from multiple sources and from what they say they do not seem to be caching results much.

iLoveOncall 4y ago

I've rarely seen a product become so bad so quickly. Brave started out with great promises and has consistently under-delivered since.

prepend 4y ago
What problems do you have that gotten worse? I don’t use Brave search very much but it seems equivalent to duck duck go and its results are ok.
- all2 4y ago
  Generally I've found brave's results to be better on a wide swath of topics. Long form, (mostly) well written pages are top of the stack. Image search and video search lags behind other search engines significantly, though.
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  By "product" I meant the whole Brave ecosystem actually.
  - hunterb123 4y ago
    Okay what problems in the whole ecosystem do you mean? You stated your opinion, but you forgot to add your reasoning.
    - iLoveOncall 4y ago
      What this guy said basically: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33820597 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33820597
      - prepend 4y ago
        I’m still not sure how this describes a getting worse scenario. The dumb crypto stuff has been there since the beginning and hasn’t changed much at all. I see them adding products like search and it seems like Brave is improving. I think it’s better than Chrome for the ad blocking. It’s better than FireFox for performance.

rabuse 4y ago

Everything free, becomes ad-infested. Nothing is free, and it's really annoying seeing company after company make empty promises about privacy and "being different", then switching up when their investors start breathing down their necks. Just be honest from the start.

p0pcult 4y ago
At this point, it's not just free things that are becoming infested.
- sph 4y ago
  Yeah, they're so ubiquitous people have gotten used to them. Companies have learned that if you put ads in paid products, people grumble and moan but still keep paying for your product. The future is ads everywhere, paid or free, doesn't matter. More revenue out of every user with little effort, shareholders love this stuff.
  - vorticalbox 4y ago
    I recently installed windows 10 on my Linux box and the amount of ads in the start menu was shocking. Though I guess it's no different than dvds having ads after you paid for them.
- princevegeta89 4y ago
  Agreed. Outside software, there's a growing plague as well. - Buying an $1200+ iPhone that doesn't come with an adapter. - BMW charging you $10+ bucks per month to turn on seat heaters that came with your already expensive car - Mercedes 0-60mph acceleration booster "unlock fee" for $1200/year - Tesla woes with frequent "upgrades" locked behind paywalls. - The ironic micro-transactions in Mobile games. When summed up, they are only "macro" with millions of bucks coming in every day. This has infested gaming outside Mobile as well. I'm not ever gonna touch console gaming again.
shishy 4y ago
I dunno if it's fair to say "just be honest from the start" -- they might have genuinely believed it but had to face the reality because they set themselves up poorly with how they raised / their finances / etc.

pocketarc 4y ago

Ads seem to be a modern virus that infects everything. Everyone who claims "no ads", eventually turns their back on that once they get big enough, even companies with more than enough money from their own products (e.g. Apple, Netflix). I've never seen anything so powerful. I guess it comes down to "no business would say no to free money", but it really is incredible.

t0bia_s 4y ago
But you need money. Without money, whole businesses is pointless. With financial crisis and ridiculous inflation, who cares about ads? Well... If they try sell you a product, it is harmless. But with selling an ideas and manipulation of masses, that is diferent story. I guess propaganda is a right definition.
paulcole 4y ago
Did Apple or Brave ever say “no ads”? In the case of Brave (and every business), somebody’s got to hand money to someone in order to keep the lights on.
- derefr 4y ago
  Brave (the browser) has a built-in ad-blocker, the existence of which could be taken as an implicit stance by its creators on how they feel about ads.
  - smt88 4y ago
    > an implicit stance by its creators on how they feel about ads Like Apple and AdBlock, the stance is that they want to sell their own ads in the spaces where they're blocking other people's
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    The browser also has a built-in ad-replacer which tells you even more about how they feel about ads.

BigFreeWilly 4y ago

From the article: During this beta phase, Brave Search users will see text-based ads in search results. However, during the beta period, Brave users who have opted-in to Brave Private Ads and are using the latest version of Brave will not see Search ads, since these new ad units are not yet eligible for BAT earnings. We’re actively working to integrate Brave Rewards with Brave Search, and hope to make Search ads eligible for BAT earnings in the coming months.

musk_micropenis 4y ago

A lot of angry comments in here, but the post says there's an ad-free paid version, > Ads will give users the option to use our independent search engine with ads that don’t track them, or to sign up for ad-free paid search Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is? Or do you expect software companies to work for free? (Presumably not the companies you work for).

derefr 4y ago
Some users — possibly Brave's core target audience — might complain that there's no way to remain anonymous in this flow: either you allow Brave to leak your info to advertisers, or you allow Brave to leak your info to Stripe in the payment flow. There's (currently) no way to pay for a Brave Premium account with crypto or through any other anonymous mechanism.
- musk_micropenis 4y ago
  > either you allow Brave to leak your info to advertisers Can you expand on this? According to the article the ads are privacy-preserving but I'm open to hearing otherwise. There's not a lot of detail in the article.
  - INeedMoreRam 4y ago
    Assuming we can trust Brave, the article clearly states: "Brave Search only uses your search query, country, and device type to show you ads, and does not keep any kind of profile of your searches." My question to somebody who understands this more than me, by collecting query, country, device type, is that enough info to identify users? Doesn't Brave automatically get User Agent strings, too?
    - musk_micropenis 4y ago
      Even if that is enough to identify users, you'd have to show evidence that that information is being handed to advertisers, which is what GP accused them of.

pueblo3616 4y ago

Do you work for free? A company has to make money to survive and pay its employees. Brave blocks third-party ads, not all ads.

bogwog 4y ago
> A company has to make money to survive and pay its employees. So why do they give their product away for free? To lure naive/optimistic people in so they can be exploited later? Why should a company like that survive?
- pueblo3616 4y ago
  Yeah sure, rant more on Brave, and stay silent about Google.
  - bogwog 4y ago
    So you're saying that anything Brave does is okay because they're not Google? FYI Brave isn't the only company that isn't Google.
Chabsff 4y ago
Maybe it's simply just not commercially viable in any way shape or form to build an ethically responsible web browser and distribute it for free.

mberning 4y ago

I have been enjoying Kagi. Don’t mind the $10 per month to support something that caters to me rather than advertisers.

INeedMoreRam 4y ago
Did you create a new “bogus”email address when you signed up for their service to hide your identity? Or were you okay with giving them your real email address? I feel uncomfortable potentially having my searches linked to my real email and/or name.
- t0bia_s 4y ago
  Who cares about email when you gave them your real name with credit card.
- vile_wretch 4y ago
  Not really an answer to your question but I have my password manager integrated with my email host and can generate a new masked email with one click when creating new accounts. Not sure how it is as far as privacy (Bitwarden can't read my email, only create new masked emails - the option to allow read access is provided however) but as far as being able to disable problematic addresses on a whim without changing my main is pretty great.
- gabeio 4y ago
  I don’t but honestly I don’t search for things often that I need anonymity, I use kagi more because it seems better than the other search engines at getting the results I care about at the top and not a huge amount of ads or junk posts at the top. They claim to keep the searches as anonymous as possible, and they have been through an audit so hopefully true.
- hosteur 4y ago
  Never mind the email address. If you pay them they have your real identity. This is really what prevents me from using them. Although the search does seem to be superb.

Archipelagia 4y ago

Not the biggest fan of Brave myself, but they seem to actually get extra points in my eyes for adding the paid option. It's not like you can pay $3 to Google to get them to stop surveilling you. On a bigger note, monetizing search without ads seem to be a pretty tricky business model. Especially if you want to move beyond being a niche product; even an average HN reader would be hard to convince to pay for a regular subscription, so with the general public I can't imaging the hassle. What are other ways search engines could monetize without taking money either from users or from people that want to show something to them?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
puchatek 4y ago
I would pay Google 30 just for search+maps of it came without tracking and ads
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  They'd happily take your money and track and ad-bomb you anyway, the ads will be ingeniously disguised as "valuable information" but they'd be there.
- INeedMoreRam 4y ago
  My solution is using uBlock Origin without signing in to Google and a VPN. I'm not concerned about ads because I literally never see them. And uBlock blocks the tracking. Do you not use uBlock Origin? https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpa...
  - t0bia_s 4y ago
    Your browser has unique fingerprint regardless of VPN or uBlock. If you want be anonymous, use Tor.
- 4y ago

kernal 4y ago

Brave, the FTX of browsers.

INeedMoreRam 4y ago
Comments like yours, reminds me of the trash on Reddit. Let me guess you use Chrome?
- kernal 4y ago
  The duplicitous behavior and business model of Brave is trash. >Let me guess you use Chrome? Speaking of trash reddit comments...

pretext 4y ago

Genuinely interested why do people keep using Brave instead of LibreWolf or ungoogled-chromium? EDIT: LibreWolf Browser: A custom version of Firefox, focused on privacy, security and freedom. https://librewolf.net/ https://librewolf.net/ ungoogled-chromium: A lightweight approach to removing Google web service dependency https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium

lbwtaylor 4y ago
It just works. It blocks almost all ads. It has a simple button to turn ad blocking off when I need to use websites that don't work with ad blockers. I don't need to fiddle with an extension. I can use it on android without effort. This is about brave search, which I have never used. I don't use the brave homepage, so I never saw the homepage ads that folks complained about. HN seems to hate Brave for some reason. But it has worked perfectly for years. I don't care if it's perfect privacy -- not sure I ever felt Brave promised that. I have never heard of the browsers you mention. I tried to use Chromium for a while, but you have to find distributions that include basic features and it was a hassle. Not a big hassle, but made me stick with Brave.
- pleb_nz 4y ago
  Brave is chromium though isn't it? I think some if the hate comes from people who would like to see more variety in the browser market. At the moment we're heading to a single dominant force of chromium based browsers. And history has shown what happens when an entity holds all the cards and there is less choice.
satvikpendem 4y ago
Or Firefox. Especially with Manifest v3 looming.
- pretext 4y ago
  LibreWolf is just a Firefox with telemetry removed.

Animats 4y ago

Ads from the browser itself? Do not want.

btbuildem 4y ago

HN could do a better title, it seems almost like it's clickbait. The original article title is "Brave debuts privacy-preserving ads in its search engine" - so the HN title kind of implies the opposite. I think paying for content / services is the only way out of.. this. This thing we're in where Advertiser is King. This ecosystem that breeds dark patterns and skews all discourse towards the uninformed and adversarial.

dang 4y ago
What would be a better (i.e. more accurate and neutral) title? The article's title sounds too pressreleasey to me, which is a form of misleading+linkbait in its own right, so it was a legit title to rewrite, given HN's rule ("Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait" - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
- soundnote 4y ago
  I feel like replacing debuts with launches in the original title would do the trick?

satvikpendem 4y ago

After all the Brave controversies [0] I'm not sure why anyone uses Brave anymore. They took creators' money while ostensibly "collecting" it for them, and they inserted their own affiliate links when you visited certain sites. It's just shady behavior all around. I mean, when you have your own "Controversies" section on Wikipedia, you know there's something wrong. Especially with Manifest v3 looming which would kill modern ad blockers, I see no reason not to use Firefox. Sure, Brave and other Chromium browsers might say they'll fork Chromium, but how long will that last, really? It's no joke to maintain a fork. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser)#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_(web_browser)#Controvers...

skinnymuch 4y ago
Will manifest 3 really kill modern ad blockers? Like adguard and ublock won’t work as they do now in some upcoming Blink/Chromium version?
- SeanAnderson 4y ago
  They will work but not as well.
  - NoGravitas 4y ago
    Correct: they will work about as well as DNS-based adblockers. The "cosmetic blocks" you depend on in uBlock Origin to block same-origin and in-page elements, the things that make Fandom wikis usable, will not work.
    - rightbyte 4y ago
      I had to check what you meant and turned of uBlock on a Fandom wiki. Ye, well, those popup ads are really distracting. Even pop-up video ads. Following your scrolling around. It's good to remind oneself about how the internet looks like to most people ...
- satvikpendem 4y ago

i13e 4y ago

If you don't like the ads I'm sure there will be ways to block them. Every search engine has ads, StartPage, DDG, Google, etc... None have an option to pay. I don't see what's wrong with them keeping the lights on, every startup can't burn money forever.

james_pm 4y ago

Or, use DuckDuckGo which allows you to turn off ads without paying.

NayamAmarshe 4y ago
Yeah, and also powers Bing. So all you're doing is feeding Bing with search queries for their own algorithm.
- propogandist 4y ago
  ddg also manipulates content to push certain agendas

enpojames 4y ago

I haven't seen any ads so far. Must be early.

secretj 4y ago
Yeah our volume is intentionally small right now, as we closely monitor performance. We'll be scaling up as we feel good about what we see.

travisgriggs 4y ago

This statement (second paragraph) > Ads are a key part of search engines, helping to facilitate the free and open exchange of information on the Web, and to connect users to helpful products and services related to their search terms. Is just non sequitur for me. It's said in such a smooth way, in such a gaslight-ish way, that your tempted to just accept it. But it actually makes no sense to me. I get what ads are key to: revenue, keeping the lights on, that sort of thing. But I don't see how they increase the free and open exchange of information on the web. If I sat down with a troubled couple who was having a hard time communicating, I wouldn't periodically interrupt and say "let's pause a moment for an ad. I think that's going to really open up a better and more free exchange between the both of you." I also don't understand how it is helpful in helping me connect to products and services in a helpful way. An index (yellow pages) of what's available would help me search for a product. A rating system that wasn't gamed might help me make a selection that was best for me. But ads? We inherently distrust that we're being swayed/manipulated by them. I need to update the insulation in my attic, so I'm in the market to get some newer insulation. To wit, I've called a number of people I know who are in the insulation/builder business to get their information. Not a single one said "well, here's my opinion, but what you really need to do is check the ads, they're going to be your best source of information about how to proceed."

hunterb123 4y ago
You've never opened a newspaper up to the classifieds? Those are ads. You may not know of a tree cutting service until you look there. You may not know where to get a car part until you look there. Having ads riddled throughout the internet is one thing, but having a directory where ads are supposed to be is another. Yes billboards are annoying, that doesn't make classifieds equal. (oh and you could just pay $3/mo or not use the service if you have no use for classifieds)
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  But there's a difference if you're searching for a tree cutting service in the yellow pages, or if you're googling a chainsaw sharpener, and you get a tree cutting service ad.

GaryNumanVevo 4y ago

Is anyone surprised? Brave was trying to push their own ad network years ago with the BAT (Brave Attention Token) to "pay" websites for eyes on their page. And guess how they paid for it? By running their own ads over native web content. Edit: Not sure why people are downvoting this. Brave announced the BAT in 2017 and they outlined their plans for an alternative ad network then. https://twitter.com/AttentionToken/status/844929203438964736?s=20&t=fo1uGgUYQhBIh0BTQ3fIvA https://twitter.com/AttentionToken/status/844929203438964736...

soundnote 4y ago
Probably because Brave doesn't run their own ads over native web content. Brave Rewards ads are opt-in things delivered as native OS toaster popups and unrelated to your browsing activity.

Pilottwave 4y ago

lots of criticism for brave in this thread. they are the best privacy browser at the moment based on leakage tests for default settings. they got a working add-blocker by default. they have privacy preserving ads because of local in browser matching, your data never leaves the browser for the ads, the ads come to you! they even pay you for watching the ads, and enable you to support creators. I feel we finally have a privacy respecting browser normal people and tech enthousiast can use, and it puzzles me how it's painted here. let's stay objective if you don't like the web3 stuff or the blockchain based rewards don't use it. But the web3 space is booming and brave has been nice way to interact with it.

SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
>But the web3 space is booming Is it?
- Pilottwave 4y ago
  lots of projects, and interest has boomed last year because there has been lots of money sloshing around. but it's very much the wild west. just look for cool tech and not for get rich quick schemes and your bound to find something to your liking!

comte7092 4y ago

Possibly a completely dumb idea, but I’ve wondered for a while if there would be value in building an open data web index, something which would allow competing providers to offer different search algorithms on top of. I don’t know enough about the technical details about building a search engine, so perhaps this isn’t feasible because the algorithm and the index need to be tightly coupled to each other, but my hunch is that it would be beneficial for the web if there were an open street map of search indexes.

pythux 4y ago
You might like Goggles (also a Brave feature): https://search.brave.com/help/goggles https://search.brave.com/help/goggles Disclaimer: I work at Brave.
- comte7092 4y ago
  I am a user of brave search actually, I’m glad you guys released the product! Really more than anything else, I think about how important search is to the open web/maintaining a healthy internet. And by that, I mean that I don’t think having one dominant search provider is a good thing. There are a lot of small upstarts that I’m happy to use such as brave/ddg/etc, but given the fact that many of those use bing as a backend I am left wondering how viable they’ll be in unseating google/bing (I know brave maintains its own index, which is a big plus).

grammers 4y ago

I prefer paying for services, e.g. Tutanota, Anonaddy, Bitwarden, Guardian. Why do people take everything on the web for free? Of course, companies need to make money - if not with subs, then with ads. What else should they do?

encryptluks2 4y ago
They should put ethics before their Tesla's and summer beach houses.
- MrMan 4y ago
  its their free speech

charlesrocket 4y ago

As private as their tor

Faint 4y ago

Would you trust Google's ( or other search provider's) ads more, if they had a separately browsable "classifieds" site, not unlike Craigslist, that the search ads would be search results from (reach modified by how much the ads were paid with, ofc.). Anyway, when you saw an add, you could click through it like now, or click to browse a relevant section of the classifieds site. Which would also work as a catalog of all paid and also unpaid ads the search provider carried?

amelius 4y ago

So, let me get this straight. They will block ads on the internet, only to replace them by their own ads? So the money will go to them instead of the creators of the content you're watching?

soundnote 4y ago
Yes and no. They have a browser with a normal adblocking function. They serve ads themselves, and use these to fund services like Brave News, Brave Talk and Brave Search. They have an option for the browser to use the OS's toaster popup system to show you ads at predetermined intervals. If you sign up for this, Brave will use a part of their ad revenue to buy BAT from the open market and give it to users who watched these toaster popups. They have a tipping service where content creators, commenters on eg. Twitter and websites can be tipped with BAT. The people who got tips now have stuff Brave regularly buys from the open market with their ad revenues. So they serve ads on their own services same as anyone else, they just build them to be privacy respecting. The tipping service + toaster popups combo is intended to replace some of the lost revenue from adblockers like Brave Shields and uBO nuking most ads since most ads are tracking driven. But ads on websites are never replaced, just blocked the same way uBO blocks them, with the same filter lists.
- pleb_nz 4y ago
  Yeah that doesn't sound much better when you say it like that imo.

j2kun 4y ago

> Brave Search only uses your search query, country, and device type to show you ads This, by definition, is not "fully private."

heywoodlh 4y ago

I'm not a fan of ads at all. But I am curious, is there an alternative way to provide a free service while still making money? Unrelated, it would be cool to be able to self host an actual search engine (not talking about privacy-focused front ends like Searx -- but I'm grateful for projects like it) without having to store petabytes of data. Is there a self-hostable search engine alternative that doesn't just use another backend search engine service like Bing?

bishplsok 4y ago
Actually Useful(tm) result out of the recent influx of AI hype -- "search engine" trained on, by and large, how people recommend links on sites like Reddit. It's a little hit or miss in my experience still, but when it hits it's legitimately brilliant, and mostly avoids the "Google search results are useless and dominated by SEO-farm garbage" issue. https://metaphor.systems/ https://metaphor.systems/
- heywoodlh 4y ago
  Whoa, this is really cool! Is it self-hostable/open source?

AraceliHarker 4y ago

I think Brave Ads is sophomoric to say that they don't track users when Apple, not to mention Facebook and Google, understand that the effective operation of Internet advertising is to track users. Blocking other companies' ads and posting their own ads instead is unbecoming and also reminds me of AdBlock Plus.

DavideNL 4y ago
The big difference to me seems that Brave actually gives you the possibility to pay them, instead of showing you ads and tracking you. None of the other Big Tech companies do this. Seems quite reasonable! in the end someone has to pay the bills after all...

jl2718 4y ago

> ads that [don’t] track them Does that mean “can’t” or “promise not to”.