8 ms·

Brazil seizes iPhones from stores due to free charger requirement

79 points by isaacfrond 4y ago

silverpepsi 4y ago
Seems pretty arbitrary to me, iPhone charges directly from any standard USB power outlet. So why not shut down hotels and seize homes that have only old fashioned 120v blade plugs or whatever? Most hotels I stay in worldwide have USB plugs and so does my friend's home in Texas But don't tell this to a geriatric politician who can't understand the concept that God didn't create the original style power outlets (thus making them the forever standard) on the 2nd day of Genesis
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- shultays 4y ago
  Because usb outlets are not the requirement. If it was, a fair comparison would be Brazil asking it as a requirement from new hotels/houses and if they don't comply then fine them , and if they still don't the seize them Not everyone in the world lives in the hotels you stayed or in your friend's house at Texas. Until then we need chargers for using an iphone with our old fashioned power outlets I am afraid.
- bicijay 4y ago
  Dude, the concept of a new phone coming with a charger is not that dictadorial. Your analogy with the outlets does not make much sense in this context whatsoever.
  - pfortuny 4y ago
    Especially if the connector is not compatible with any other brand’s.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      The phone comes with a USB C to lightning cord. The issue is the power adapter.
      - pfortuny 4y ago
        Ah ok. Sorry, got it wrong.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  >So why not shut down hotels and seize homes that have only old fashioned 120v blade plugs or whatever? Most hotels I stay in worldwide have USB plugs and so does my friend's home in Texas This is going on a tangent, but I'm curious: Am I the only one that avoids those sockets like the god damn plague? It's a USB socket of unknown origin/destination, those things are theoretically capable of data transmission. I'm not going to plug stuff like my phone in them, that's like sticking your wazoo in any and every crevice you come across.
  - shultays 4y ago
    Also doesn't usb constantly being updated for higher and higher charging capabilities like every other year? Those power outlets sound pretty useless now if they only support slow charging. Even if you put one today at your home with highest powering capacity, it will probably be obselete in 5 years
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      Even the slowest possible charger will still easily charge any phone overnight so it’s not a huge deal.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    You can just buy power-only cable for that, it just has data lines snipped. Probably won't negotiate max power tho. I'd personally be more worried that they put cheapest possible one and it will fall apart putting 120/240 on the USB... apparently the wall mounted ones also die pretty quickly because of heat issues
  - refurb 4y ago
    I do the same. I'm not worried about data over the cable, but more how reliable the power supply is or even the plug. Who knows if some idiot jammed a piece of metal in it? Or if it's some cheap power source that will either fry the phone or not charge very fast. I'll use it if no other option, but otherwise I'll take a pass.
  - scarface74 4y ago
- philippejara 4y ago
  >Seems pretty arbitrary to me, iPhone charges directly from any standard USB power outlet. Quite often when you use those the phone will complain and tell you to use only the official chargers, and their warranty doesn't cover damage caused by third party chargers either. Once that's in play the argument that it can charge from any standard USB outlet becomes very shaky. Brazil has a huge amount of problems with politicians and most of them are not due to a lack of understanding but straight up corruption, this is not one of them.
- ricardobeat 4y ago
  iPhones come with a lightning-to-USB-C cable, not USB-A which most chargers and outlets still are. They only sold USB-C chargers very briefly before removing them from the box, so even if you already had an iPhone, there is a 90% chance you’ll need to buy a new charger.
quitit 4y ago
Probably worth noting beyond the headline: Apple has judicial permission in Brazil to continue selling the iPhone without a charger, this is until the dispute is resolved one way or another. So for the time being they’re not actually in breach.
- BulgarianIdiot 4y ago
  So why are they seizing iPhones?
  - djbebs 4y ago
    Bureaucrats going on a power trip thats about to get struck down by the courts.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      > struck down by the courts This seizure was ordered by the Brazillian Ministry of Justice.
      - iagocds 4y ago
        We have multiple Ministers of Justice and multiple level courts on Brazil , so an higher court can block lower court decisions, even more when that is still been processed.
        marcosdumay 4y ago
        There are several Ministers of Justice, but there is only one Ministry of Justice, that answers to the president and is not part of the Judicial Branch. Anyway, this decision was from the PROCON-DF that is a part of the Judicial Branch where no Minister of Justice works on. It's also only valid at Brasília.
- subw00f 4y ago
  What judicial permission are you referring to? Earlier this year, they were about to get their sales suspended by the ministry of justice, plus a 2.2 mi dollar fine. The court decided to postpone suspension and fine until they determine if Apple is trying to circumvent the restrictions[1]. They should comply with the law of the land if they want to continue operating in Brazil. [1] https://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2022/09/06/ministerio-da-justica-determina-suspensao-de-venda-de-iphone-sem-carregador-e-aplica-multa-de-r-12-milhoes-a-apple.ghtml https://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2022/09/06/ministeri...
windex 4y ago
- bicijay 4y ago
  Or you know, the government applying its laws to protect the consumer?
  - rafale 4y ago
    Often it's the latter until it becomes the former.
  - CTOSian 4y ago
    in that case they probably don't give a f to the environment. Apple could resolve the issue by eg having a free-charger-coupon/card into the box.
    - tremon 4y ago
      So why don't they?
  - refurb 4y ago
    Those are often the same things in some countries
- dakial1 4y ago
  Well, ignoring the implicit prejudice on your comment, it actually does not work that way in Brazil. This was a decision made by a judge in Brazil and the way for Apple to appeal will be to go to the next instance (not sure if second or third in this case), which will be a different court with different judges. And differently from the US, judges here are not elected nor appointed by the executive (with the sad exception of the supreme court); they pass exams, are nominated with stability (can't be fired without just cause), that way they are pretty much discouraged of doing "shakedows" or accepting "case or phones", as they risk losing a very comfortable and prestigious position.
- subw00f 4y ago
kramerger 4y ago
Correction: Not because of free charger, but due to not using a standard charger (USB C) while not including their own non-standard charger.
- neallindsay 4y ago
  Wait, when we're talking about the "charger" here, do we mean the box that converts AC to DC? Or are we talking about the cable that plugs into the phone? If we're talking about the cable, Apple does and always has included that in the box. If we're talking about the wall plug thing that converts AC to DC, Apple no longer gives you one of those in the box, but it has always been standard USB. (USB A for the longest time, but USB C in recent years.)
  - speeder 4y ago
    Both. Most other companies here offer the charging box that is USB-A. While the phone end is USB-C. So when you buy an iPhone, you get a lightining-USBC cable, while you have a USB-A brick... thus you can't use the iPhone. In an older thread I gave a more detailed explanation on how this situation happened. But long story short: phones in Brazil are ridiculously expensive, so are chargers, people don't change them often and someone buying an iPhone often is someone that was using a very old phone, sometimes a dumbphone even. And when they don't find a charger in the box, they go to black market to buy some crappy chinese ones that can set themselves on fire.
    - neallindsay 4y ago
      Ah. So if Apple had put off switching from USB-A to USB-C for a few years they might not have gotten in trouble. And other phone brands that use USB-C and don't include the AC adapter are probably less high-profile than Apple but might find themselves in the same legal situation in the near future.
      - postalrat 4y ago
        You can but a standard cable for usb-a charging with other phones. An iphone would require a cable just for it.
gcoguiec 4y ago
iPhones are crazy expensive in Brazil [0], but a 15% import tariff doesn’t explain why Brazilians have to pay twice the price. [0] https://www.nukeni.com/en/apple/iphone/iphone14-pro-max https://www.nukeni.com/en/apple/iphone/iphone14-pro-max
- RicardoLuis0 4y ago
  just about any electronics here in brazil are ~2x the price, be it phones, computers, computer parts (CPUs, GPUs, MOBOs, etc), or anything else (not just apple, any brand)
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    This is true. When the PS5 was launched, the prices in Brazil were (they still are but that's beside the point) ridiculously high. Gamers complained, in an incredibly amateurish PR stnt Sony decided to launch a campaign justifying the high prices on taxes. Obviously, people decided to calculate this. Even taking the PS5's RRP in the US or Europe (as opposed to cost) and applying Brazilian taxes on top, the final figures were still around 40% lower than what they were charging.
    - alister 4y ago
      > applying Brazilian taxes on top, the final figures were still around 40% lower than what they were charging So taxes are only part of the explantion. Who do you suppose is responsible for the rest of the much higher prices? Are Sony and Apple pricing their products way higher for Brazil? Is it the importers? Or are the retailers simply charging what the Brazilian market will bear? It should be possible for some enterprising Brazilians to import Sony and Apple products from elsewhere in the world, pay the Brazilian taxes, and still sell for less than the current retailers, which would eventually bring down the prices. I can't understand why that doesn't happen.
      - cassianoleal 4y ago
        > Who do you suppose is responsible for the rest of the much higher prices? In the case of Apple, they sell them directly so I don't think it's anyone but themselves. Not sure about Sony and others. > Or are the retailers simply charging what the Brazilian market will bear? This is certainly a factor. Similarly, cars are way overpriced in Brazil, simply because people will pay. > It should be possible for some enterprising Brazilians to import Sony and Apple products from elsewhere in the world They do, but usually small scale. I know people who have purchased Apple computers for half the Brazilian price from sellers on Mercado Livre (South American eBay).
constantcrying 4y ago
Are there actually people who want to have a charger included? I have about half a dozen of them already, what would I even do with another? As long as there is a USB-A to phone connector cable in there what would you want with another charger? If you really need one, buy one seperately.
- fredoralive 4y ago
  Mysteriously Apple choose to swap to a USB-C to Lightning as the pack in cable at the same time as they dropped a pack in charger. Strange timing that...
- soco 4y ago
  With every new generation the charging power drawn increased so yes I might have a bunch of old chargers as backup but none of them can charge as fast as the newest.
  - constantcrying 4y ago
    And phone companies include high quality chargers which allow their phones to charge as fast as possible? If anything I do not want chargers I get with devices because manufacturers cheap out on them and inevitably they are not very good.
    - waboremo 4y ago
      What a ridiculous argument. Chargers from the same company that brings you the phone tend to be the highest quality due to rigorous testing. If first party chargers aren't very good then third party ones are unusuable. Remember news of all those "exploding" devices? You guessed it, third party chargers.
      - constantcrying 4y ago
    - Ekaros 4y ago
mattw2121 4y ago
I just bought a light fixture a few days ago. No bulbs came with it. I also just bought a new pair of wireless earbuds, and no power brick came with it. In both cases, it would have been nice, and saved me the extra expense, but a government mandate to force manufacturers to include them?
- ingenieros 4y ago
  That's because you assume that electronics cost the same everywhere outside the U.S but that is certainly not the case. In fact, Brazil is notorious for being protective of their own localindustry and as a result iPhones and other gadgets are more expensive there than anywhere else on earth. As a consumer the least I can expect for these crazy markups is to not have to spend additional money for a charger or a lightning cable. https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/15/yet-again-brazil-has-the-most-expensive-iphone-13-us-the-cheapest/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/15/yet-again-brazil-has-the-most...
  - nickpp 4y ago
    So the solution for protectionism-created problems is... more protectionism?
    - ingenieros 4y ago
      Brazil seizes iPhones from stores while the EU which has a lot more leverage forces Apple to switch to USB-C altogether. All countries look after their own best interests and use legislation to counter every perceived threat to their local economies. This is the same reason why the Biden administration is banning China from acquiring high end chips from NVIDIA, AMD and other U.S companies. -edit: fixed small typo
      - nickpp 4y ago
        I hope Brazil has more local smartphone producers then, because the EU has no significant one (that I am aware of)...
lucasfcosta 4y ago
I'm honestly a bit disappointed Brazil is getting in Apple's way. Sure, I do agree with the overall intent of this initiative. Still, it's going to be counter-productive in the long-run by making Apple and resellers either leave the country or make their products more expensive to cover the cost of doing business here.
- syliconadder 4y ago
  But Apple skipped including a power brick under a greenwashing initiative which was really to skim more profits? It's a way to rein in Apple's greed from the looks of it.
- philippejara 4y ago
  Apple has margin to spare, more than any other phone company I reckon, no way they'll leave a country as big a brazil over something like this. It shouldn't be a big ask to provide a charger when you sell a phone worth multiples of the minimum wage. I do feel for the resellers that hold them in stock right now, not sure how these units will be treated.
- subw00f 4y ago
  You're delusional if you think Apple will leave a massive market like that over some petty dispute. It's like people think they operate with razor-thin margins. Do you believe the price difference is only due to tariffs? Subtract them, then compare them again. You're in for a fun surprise. Add that to the fact that it's not only a hardware business but also software, with a good 15%-30% profit over sales through its app distribution scheme.
dakial1 4y ago
As you guys seem to be confused on this so let me explain the rationale. Brazil has a consumer law, that defines what companies can/can't do when selling to consumers. It has like, warranty minimums for durable goods (90 days), "no questions asked" return right for virtual purchases (7 days), etc... among those there is a very special one called "Venda Casada", which translates to tie-in/combined sale. The "venda casada" article forbids the condition of an purchase to the necessity of purchasing another item (from whoever is selling it). For the Apple case, the judge understands that by removing the charger (and therefore selling as a separate product), Apple is forcing the consumer to purchase 2 items when acquiring an iPhone, as the charger is a must have item for a smartphone, and to make things worse, Apple has a proprietary charger so new customers and those migrating from other platforms (like android) will need to buy the charger. The rationale is pretty similar to a TV brand selling a TV without the charging cable, since everyone has a TV, so they surely must already have a charging cable. This is a law, it is not Brazil government/judiciary with some vendetta against Apple. Many companies have had decisions against them because of this. I hope this helps make things clearer. Cheers!
- mbalyuzi 4y ago
  Just wait 'till they discover that Apple Watches need an iPhone to work...
- jonhohle 4y ago
  Apple does not have a proprietary charger. It has a proprietary cable, which comes with the device. That cable plugs into a standard USB charger or port, even one’s that came with android phones.
  - twawaaay 4y ago
    Apple says: "When using electronic accessories with your iPhone, ensure that they are either genuine Apple products or that they have been certified as Made for iPhone under the MFi program. Certified items come with the "Made for iPhone" logo on them and/or on their packaging. (...) Using uncertified or counterfeit accessories may damage your iPhone and/or adversely affect operation. Apple's warranty does not cover damage caused by use with a third party product that does not meet Apple's specifications." So you have to buy Apple charger to be able to use iPhone "correctly" and to preserve warrant.
throwaway290 4y ago
Great, let's make sure every new iPhone comes with a charger, not as if we need to care about adding waste to our environment. What else to expect from a government that greenlights Amazon deforestation...
swfsql 4y ago
The politicians who made those laws have no idea what they were doing. This only serves for those crooks to bribe companies. Eventually we will get to a million laws and therefore a million different ways that they can bribe, and a million hours any company need to waste to do anything in this country. This only adds uncertainty and forces chaos into everything. Let alone the arrogance of the government (or bystanders) to get in between what a private company and individuals consumers do. The government treats the oh so poor consumers like stupid animals who cannot buy a freaking charger separately. In the end this simply increases the costs for the consumers themselves.
_nalply 4y ago
I wonder why Apple didn't give out a coupon for an optional charger that could be sent in for a cash-back. Maybe because that would enrage the Brazilian Ministery of Justice?

79 points by isaacfrond 4y ago

Seems pretty arbitrary to me, iPhone charges directly from any standard USB power outlet. So why not shut down hotels and seize homes that have only old fashioned 120v blade plugs or whatever? Most hotels I stay in worldwide have USB plugs and so does my friend's home in Texas But don't tell this to a geriatric politician who can't understand the concept that God didn't create the original style power outlets (thus making them the forever standard) on the 2nd day of Genesis

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
shultays 4y ago
Because usb outlets are not the requirement. If it was, a fair comparison would be Brazil asking it as a requirement from new hotels/houses and if they don't comply then fine them , and if they still don't the seize them Not everyone in the world lives in the hotels you stayed or in your friend's house at Texas. Until then we need chargers for using an iphone with our old fashioned power outlets I am afraid.
bicijay 4y ago
Dude, the concept of a new phone coming with a charger is not that dictadorial. Your analogy with the outlets does not make much sense in this context whatsoever.
- pfortuny 4y ago
  Especially if the connector is not compatible with any other brand’s.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    The phone comes with a USB C to lightning cord. The issue is the power adapter.
    - pfortuny 4y ago
      Ah ok. Sorry, got it wrong.
Dalewyn 4y ago
>So why not shut down hotels and seize homes that have only old fashioned 120v blade plugs or whatever? Most hotels I stay in worldwide have USB plugs and so does my friend's home in Texas This is going on a tangent, but I'm curious: Am I the only one that avoids those sockets like the god damn plague? It's a USB socket of unknown origin/destination, those things are theoretically capable of data transmission. I'm not going to plug stuff like my phone in them, that's like sticking your wazoo in any and every crevice you come across.
- shultays 4y ago
  Also doesn't usb constantly being updated for higher and higher charging capabilities like every other year? Those power outlets sound pretty useless now if they only support slow charging. Even if you put one today at your home with highest powering capacity, it will probably be obselete in 5 years
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Even the slowest possible charger will still easily charge any phone overnight so it’s not a huge deal.
- ilyt 4y ago
  You can just buy power-only cable for that, it just has data lines snipped. Probably won't negotiate max power tho. I'd personally be more worried that they put cheapest possible one and it will fall apart putting 120/240 on the USB... apparently the wall mounted ones also die pretty quickly because of heat issues
- refurb 4y ago
  I do the same. I'm not worried about data over the cable, but more how reliable the power supply is or even the plug. Who knows if some idiot jammed a piece of metal in it? Or if it's some cheap power source that will either fry the phone or not charge very fast. I'll use it if no other option, but otherwise I'll take a pass.
- scarface74 4y ago
philippejara 4y ago
>Seems pretty arbitrary to me, iPhone charges directly from any standard USB power outlet. Quite often when you use those the phone will complain and tell you to use only the official chargers, and their warranty doesn't cover damage caused by third party chargers either. Once that's in play the argument that it can charge from any standard USB outlet becomes very shaky. Brazil has a huge amount of problems with politicians and most of them are not due to a lack of understanding but straight up corruption, this is not one of them.
ricardobeat 4y ago
iPhones come with a lightning-to-USB-C cable, not USB-A which most chargers and outlets still are. They only sold USB-C chargers very briefly before removing them from the box, so even if you already had an iPhone, there is a 90% chance you’ll need to buy a new charger.

quitit 4y ago

Probably worth noting beyond the headline: Apple has judicial permission in Brazil to continue selling the iPhone without a charger, this is until the dispute is resolved one way or another. So for the time being they’re not actually in breach.

BulgarianIdiot 4y ago
So why are they seizing iPhones?
- djbebs 4y ago
  Bureaucrats going on a power trip thats about to get struck down by the courts.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    > struck down by the courts This seizure was ordered by the Brazillian Ministry of Justice.
    - iagocds 4y ago
      We have multiple Ministers of Justice and multiple level courts on Brazil , so an higher court can block lower court decisions, even more when that is still been processed.
      - marcosdumay 4y ago
        There are several Ministers of Justice, but there is only one Ministry of Justice, that answers to the president and is not part of the Judicial Branch. Anyway, this decision was from the PROCON-DF that is a part of the Judicial Branch where no Minister of Justice works on. It's also only valid at Brasília.
subw00f 4y ago
What judicial permission are you referring to? Earlier this year, they were about to get their sales suspended by the ministry of justice, plus a 2.2 mi dollar fine. The court decided to postpone suspension and fine until they determine if Apple is trying to circumvent the restrictions[1]. They should comply with the law of the land if they want to continue operating in Brazil. [1] https://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2022/09/06/ministerio-da-justica-determina-suspensao-de-venda-de-iphone-sem-carregador-e-aplica-multa-de-r-12-milhoes-a-apple.ghtml https://g1.globo.com/tecnologia/noticia/2022/09/06/ministeri...

windex 4y ago

bicijay 4y ago
Or you know, the government applying its laws to protect the consumer?
- rafale 4y ago
  Often it's the latter until it becomes the former.
- CTOSian 4y ago
  in that case they probably don't give a f to the environment. Apple could resolve the issue by eg having a free-charger-coupon/card into the box.
  - tremon 4y ago
    So why don't they?
- refurb 4y ago
  Those are often the same things in some countries
dakial1 4y ago
Well, ignoring the implicit prejudice on your comment, it actually does not work that way in Brazil. This was a decision made by a judge in Brazil and the way for Apple to appeal will be to go to the next instance (not sure if second or third in this case), which will be a different court with different judges. And differently from the US, judges here are not elected nor appointed by the executive (with the sad exception of the supreme court); they pass exams, are nominated with stability (can't be fired without just cause), that way they are pretty much discouraged of doing "shakedows" or accepting "case or phones", as they risk losing a very comfortable and prestigious position.
subw00f 4y ago

kramerger 4y ago

Correction: Not because of free charger, but due to not using a standard charger (USB C) while not including their own non-standard charger.

neallindsay 4y ago
Wait, when we're talking about the "charger" here, do we mean the box that converts AC to DC? Or are we talking about the cable that plugs into the phone? If we're talking about the cable, Apple does and always has included that in the box. If we're talking about the wall plug thing that converts AC to DC, Apple no longer gives you one of those in the box, but it has always been standard USB. (USB A for the longest time, but USB C in recent years.)
- speeder 4y ago
  Both. Most other companies here offer the charging box that is USB-A. While the phone end is USB-C. So when you buy an iPhone, you get a lightining-USBC cable, while you have a USB-A brick... thus you can't use the iPhone. In an older thread I gave a more detailed explanation on how this situation happened. But long story short: phones in Brazil are ridiculously expensive, so are chargers, people don't change them often and someone buying an iPhone often is someone that was using a very old phone, sometimes a dumbphone even. And when they don't find a charger in the box, they go to black market to buy some crappy chinese ones that can set themselves on fire.
  - neallindsay 4y ago
    Ah. So if Apple had put off switching from USB-A to USB-C for a few years they might not have gotten in trouble. And other phone brands that use USB-C and don't include the AC adapter are probably less high-profile than Apple but might find themselves in the same legal situation in the near future.
    - postalrat 4y ago
      You can but a standard cable for usb-a charging with other phones. An iphone would require a cable just for it.

gcoguiec 4y ago

iPhones are crazy expensive in Brazil [0], but a 15% import tariff doesn’t explain why Brazilians have to pay twice the price. [0] https://www.nukeni.com/en/apple/iphone/iphone14-pro-max https://www.nukeni.com/en/apple/iphone/iphone14-pro-max

RicardoLuis0 4y ago
just about any electronics here in brazil are ~2x the price, be it phones, computers, computer parts (CPUs, GPUs, MOBOs, etc), or anything else (not just apple, any brand)
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  This is true. When the PS5 was launched, the prices in Brazil were (they still are but that's beside the point) ridiculously high. Gamers complained, in an incredibly amateurish PR stnt Sony decided to launch a campaign justifying the high prices on taxes. Obviously, people decided to calculate this. Even taking the PS5's RRP in the US or Europe (as opposed to cost) and applying Brazilian taxes on top, the final figures were still around 40% lower than what they were charging.
  - alister 4y ago
    > applying Brazilian taxes on top, the final figures were still around 40% lower than what they were charging So taxes are only part of the explantion. Who do you suppose is responsible for the rest of the much higher prices? Are Sony and Apple pricing their products way higher for Brazil? Is it the importers? Or are the retailers simply charging what the Brazilian market will bear? It should be possible for some enterprising Brazilians to import Sony and Apple products from elsewhere in the world, pay the Brazilian taxes, and still sell for less than the current retailers, which would eventually bring down the prices. I can't understand why that doesn't happen.
    - cassianoleal 4y ago
      > Who do you suppose is responsible for the rest of the much higher prices? In the case of Apple, they sell them directly so I don't think it's anyone but themselves. Not sure about Sony and others. > Or are the retailers simply charging what the Brazilian market will bear? This is certainly a factor. Similarly, cars are way overpriced in Brazil, simply because people will pay. > It should be possible for some enterprising Brazilians to import Sony and Apple products from elsewhere in the world They do, but usually small scale. I know people who have purchased Apple computers for half the Brazilian price from sellers on Mercado Livre (South American eBay).

constantcrying 4y ago

Are there actually people who want to have a charger included? I have about half a dozen of them already, what would I even do with another? As long as there is a USB-A to phone connector cable in there what would you want with another charger? If you really need one, buy one seperately.

fredoralive 4y ago
Mysteriously Apple choose to swap to a USB-C to Lightning as the pack in cable at the same time as they dropped a pack in charger. Strange timing that...
soco 4y ago
With every new generation the charging power drawn increased so yes I might have a bunch of old chargers as backup but none of them can charge as fast as the newest.
- constantcrying 4y ago
  And phone companies include high quality chargers which allow their phones to charge as fast as possible? If anything I do not want chargers I get with devices because manufacturers cheap out on them and inevitably they are not very good.
  - waboremo 4y ago
    What a ridiculous argument. Chargers from the same company that brings you the phone tend to be the highest quality due to rigorous testing. If first party chargers aren't very good then third party ones are unusuable. Remember news of all those "exploding" devices? You guessed it, third party chargers.
    - constantcrying 4y ago
  - Ekaros 4y ago

mattw2121 4y ago

I just bought a light fixture a few days ago. No bulbs came with it. I also just bought a new pair of wireless earbuds, and no power brick came with it. In both cases, it would have been nice, and saved me the extra expense, but a government mandate to force manufacturers to include them?

ingenieros 4y ago
That's because you assume that electronics cost the same everywhere outside the U.S but that is certainly not the case. In fact, Brazil is notorious for being protective of their own localindustry and as a result iPhones and other gadgets are more expensive there than anywhere else on earth. As a consumer the least I can expect for these crazy markups is to not have to spend additional money for a charger or a lightning cable. https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/15/yet-again-brazil-has-the-most-expensive-iphone-13-us-the-cheapest/ https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/15/yet-again-brazil-has-the-most...
- nickpp 4y ago
  So the solution for protectionism-created problems is... more protectionism?
  - ingenieros 4y ago
    Brazil seizes iPhones from stores while the EU which has a lot more leverage forces Apple to switch to USB-C altogether. All countries look after their own best interests and use legislation to counter every perceived threat to their local economies. This is the same reason why the Biden administration is banning China from acquiring high end chips from NVIDIA, AMD and other U.S companies. -edit: fixed small typo
    - nickpp 4y ago
      I hope Brazil has more local smartphone producers then, because the EU has no significant one (that I am aware of)...

lucasfcosta 4y ago

I'm honestly a bit disappointed Brazil is getting in Apple's way. Sure, I do agree with the overall intent of this initiative. Still, it's going to be counter-productive in the long-run by making Apple and resellers either leave the country or make their products more expensive to cover the cost of doing business here.

syliconadder 4y ago
But Apple skipped including a power brick under a greenwashing initiative which was really to skim more profits? It's a way to rein in Apple's greed from the looks of it.
philippejara 4y ago
Apple has margin to spare, more than any other phone company I reckon, no way they'll leave a country as big a brazil over something like this. It shouldn't be a big ask to provide a charger when you sell a phone worth multiples of the minimum wage. I do feel for the resellers that hold them in stock right now, not sure how these units will be treated.
subw00f 4y ago
You're delusional if you think Apple will leave a massive market like that over some petty dispute. It's like people think they operate with razor-thin margins. Do you believe the price difference is only due to tariffs? Subtract them, then compare them again. You're in for a fun surprise. Add that to the fact that it's not only a hardware business but also software, with a good 15%-30% profit over sales through its app distribution scheme.

dakial1 4y ago

As you guys seem to be confused on this so let me explain the rationale. Brazil has a consumer law, that defines what companies can/can't do when selling to consumers. It has like, warranty minimums for durable goods (90 days), "no questions asked" return right for virtual purchases (7 days), etc... among those there is a very special one called "Venda Casada", which translates to tie-in/combined sale. The "venda casada" article forbids the condition of an purchase to the necessity of purchasing another item (from whoever is selling it). For the Apple case, the judge understands that by removing the charger (and therefore selling as a separate product), Apple is forcing the consumer to purchase 2 items when acquiring an iPhone, as the charger is a must have item for a smartphone, and to make things worse, Apple has a proprietary charger so new customers and those migrating from other platforms (like android) will need to buy the charger. The rationale is pretty similar to a TV brand selling a TV without the charging cable, since everyone has a TV, so they surely must already have a charging cable. This is a law, it is not Brazil government/judiciary with some vendetta against Apple. Many companies have had decisions against them because of this. I hope this helps make things clearer. Cheers!

mbalyuzi 4y ago
Just wait 'till they discover that Apple Watches need an iPhone to work...
jonhohle 4y ago
Apple does not have a proprietary charger. It has a proprietary cable, which comes with the device. That cable plugs into a standard USB charger or port, even one’s that came with android phones.
- twawaaay 4y ago
  Apple says: "When using electronic accessories with your iPhone, ensure that they are either genuine Apple products or that they have been certified as Made for iPhone under the MFi program. Certified items come with the "Made for iPhone" logo on them and/or on their packaging. (...) Using uncertified or counterfeit accessories may damage your iPhone and/or adversely affect operation. Apple's warranty does not cover damage caused by use with a third party product that does not meet Apple's specifications." So you have to buy Apple charger to be able to use iPhone "correctly" and to preserve warrant.

throwaway290 4y ago

Great, let's make sure every new iPhone comes with a charger, not as if we need to care about adding waste to our environment. What else to expect from a government that greenlights Amazon deforestation...

swfsql 4y ago

The politicians who made those laws have no idea what they were doing. This only serves for those crooks to bribe companies. Eventually we will get to a million laws and therefore a million different ways that they can bribe, and a million hours any company need to waste to do anything in this country. This only adds uncertainty and forces chaos into everything. Let alone the arrogance of the government (or bystanders) to get in between what a private company and individuals consumers do. The government treats the oh so poor consumers like stupid animals who cannot buy a freaking charger separately. In the end this simply increases the costs for the consumers themselves.

_nalply 4y ago

I wonder why Apple didn't give out a coupon for an optional charger that could be sent in for a cash-back. Maybe because that would enrage the Brazilian Ministery of Justice?