21 ms·

What if regular exercise is the best cognitive exercise?

• matai_kolila 4y ago
  One thing I've learned over the years is to completely ignore anything you read on HN related to health and wellness...
• przemub 4y ago
  I read it as "regular expression". God help me.
• uptownfunk 4y ago
  This reminds me of something Goggins said, along the lines of working out is almost entirely a mental thing. You access parts of your brain and your being when you’re giving everything you got to squeeze out that extra rep, or when you are going for a new PR with heavy weight. Or even when you don’t feel like working out, and you say okay I have to get my brain out of this and just do it, similar to life where I have to do work when I sometimes don’t want to. The physical benefits (muscle mass, testosterone, appearance, strength) for me are entirely secondary to the mental/emotional benefits of working out. It’s all mental
  • mattgreenrocks 4y ago
    100% agree. Working out for me is often an exercise in learning to be fully embodied and seeing what my limits are. At the age of 40 I finally feel like I understand myself a bit more on some deep level, probably because I'm not trying to ignore the reality of having a body.
  • mahathu 4y ago
    What is the physical benefit of testosterone and how are the benefits of muscle mass and appearance different from each other?
    • uptownfunk 4y ago
      Re: testosterone, for men it helps keep your marriage together, I’ll let you figure that out Muscle mass starts to erode with age (I think correlated with decrease in test) separate from the looks, you don’t want to be losing muscle mass because it means you’ll be weaker. Being weaker makes you more prone to injury and increases your risk of all-cause mortality. The other thing is muscle mass takes time and effort to put on, so you really need to start early, I missed out on my prime years (teens and early 20s) but better late than never I guess! Peter Attia (Stanford MD, longevity researcher) great source on this subject
      • foldr 4y ago
        You don't need a lot of muscle mass to stay strong enough to avoid injury. Any form of regular medium intensity exercise will probably be fine from that point of view. Of course if you want to build big muscles, that's fine. I am always a little wary of people extolling the health benefits of doing so. Eating well and doing a moderate amount of exercise will get you 90% of the way to any purely health-related benefits that you'll get from more intense exercise. And more intense forms of exercise carry their own non-negligible risk of injury. Attitudes to health, diet and exercise seem increasingly to vacillate between extremes. There's a happy medium between sitting on your couch eating cheetos and straining to lift huge weights four times a week.
• bjornsing 4y ago
  I’m not sure if going to the gym is more cognitively challenging than sudoku. But something like playing football/socker probably is.
  • marginalia_nu 4y ago
    Dunno, I feel the effect of lifting is mostly one of persistent clarity. Whatever wandering thoughts I had bouncing around in my head before a set of heavy deadlifts, all that is gone after, because the effort of pulling up the bar doesn't permit anything but complete focus.
  • boomskats 4y ago
    I think what's being challenged here is whether tasks that we consider "cognitively challenging" do actually require more "computing power" than physical exercise does. I guess it's decoupling "cognitively challenging" from "computing power".
  • lc9er 4y ago
    I love lifting, and I agree with this. Even running outside, though repetitive, causes you to constantly scan the ground ahead of you for obstacles (crack in the cement, puddles, dog poop, etc), you have the stimulus of the moving background, cars/people/stray pets to avoid. You may not have to think hard about theses things, but your mind is always processing and responding to the stimulus. For me, I think I get the most mental benefits out BJJ. I'd wager any martial art with live sparring would give the same results. When you're doing live sparring, as opposed to just drills, you have to make constant, near instant, adjustments to your defense, look for offensive openings, scan your rolling partner's movements and try to anticipate their next attack, all while being aware of other trainees on the mats (to avoid a random foot or falling body), and working to slow your breathing and maintain composure.
    • ojl 4y ago
      I totally agree regarding bjj and live sparring. I do bjj, a bit of judo and also climbing. I think climbing is a bit similar in the way that you need almost constant focus, doing small adjustments and so on. For all these three (and similar) activities there will be consequences if losing focus and starting to think about something else.
• twawaaay 4y ago
  On a sample of size one. I found that sticking to hard exercise (I am a runner, so intervals, tempo runs, long runs, etc) seems like it is making it easier for me to stick to hard exercise in the future. I have some theories about it (like upping my tolerance for pain) but I think ultimately it all comes down to willpower. If so, it means that willpower can also be exercised and you can increase/improve it to let you do things that are not necessarily pleasurable right now but give you delayed gratification. Can't tell if it transfers from exercise to my actual work.
  • deepsun 4y ago
    In "Willpower" book they argue that you only need willpower to make a habit. Once the habit is established, you don't exercise willpower anymore.
    • tejohnso 4y ago
      Doesn't that imply that after a month without chocolate or potato chips I could easily avoid them for the rest of my life? Wish it were true.
      • collinvandyck76 4y ago
        In a sense yes. I started a low carb diet a month ago and at this point i no longer actively crave those things. Not saying I would never eat them again but I have definitely lost the habit of doing so.
      • kqr 4y ago
        It works on multiple levels. After a month without chocolate you might find it much easier to avoid buying it, and if you don't have it in your home it will be easier to avoid eating it.
      • krallja 4y ago
        I used to drink at least one can of soda every day, and after almost a decade of regularly going without it, I can now drink a soda at a restaurant without falling back into the soda trap.
• boomskats 4y ago
  I don't have any references to hand, but drawing from both personal experience and anecdotal stories from places like r/nootropics, the link between cognitive performance and physical exercise is already well established and almost universally accepted. In comparison, brain training games and sudoku puzzles are rarely, if ever, mentioned as beneficial (again, anecdotally). Am I misunderstanding what's being speculated here? Somewhat related - something that I do find quite curious from my own personal experience is that lifting heavy weights has a far greater impact on my ability to concentrate (and therefore perceived cognitive ability, I guess) than cardio/aerobic exercise does. Like night and day. I've recently started attributing it to creatine supplementation, but I do wonder if there's anything more to it than that.
  • petesergeant 4y ago
    I have found heavy powerlifting negatively affects my concentration. The exhaustion in my muscles afterwards I’ve always found very distracting
    • vouaobrasil 4y ago
      It is not just that, but it's also because you have to apply a surprising amount of mental concentration in power lifting. Basically, you have to be hyper-aware of your entire form while you are lifting. From my experience that takes as much concentration as working on a hard mental problem.
    • etothepii 4y ago
      In the articles hypothesis were correct this might not be a surprise, building a weight lifting robot would likely be much easier than one that could traverse complex terrain at even 4 mph.
      • hattmall 4y ago
        Sure, you could build a weight lifting robot just by increasing it's raw mechanical ability. But to build one that's made of hundreds of strings only capable of individually lifting a single pound and coordinating them around multiple axes to lift hundreds of pounds would be much more difficult. But there's really no reason to do that since you can just increase the raw mechanics.
• 0xcde4c3db 4y ago
  > So, here’s the speculation / thesis: exercising, that is, operating our bodies at a higher than baseline level, with everything that entails - energy regulation, unconscious balancing, spatial awareness, etc - requires more computing power than crosswords, sudoku, finding relations between measure theory and first-order logic through category theory, etc Even if this is true (which seems plausible, but I'm not aware of it being proven), I don't think it tells us anything about the extent to which we're looking at "exercise inhibits cognitive decline" vs. "cognitive decline inhibits exercise".
• squaredot 4y ago
  >Robots still have a hard time navigating terrain and manipulating stuff The author argues that doing things at higher pace should be cognitive intensive. But robots are not bad at doing things fast: if they can do things, they can do them also "fast" (at my understanding)
  • lazide 4y ago
    Robots can do pre-programmed things at the limits of their physical servos, which is very fast. They are still computationally limited in how fast they can process new terrain, course-find, object detect, etc. If their sensors only saw that object 10ms ago, they probably don’t have an idea what it is yet. At speed, 10ms can be a long time. 60mph == 88 feet per second == .8 feet (about 10 inches) per 10 milliseconds. 10 inches matters a lot when you’re on terrain, or even on a road.
    • rcxdude 4y ago
      You gotta be real careful when generalising like this. A human-like robot is generally going to struggle to be faster and stronger than a human, even for a pre-programmed action. The robots which are faster and/or stronger are purpose-built (and usually are stronger because they are much larger). But also robots can be super-fast at object recognition. See automatic sorting machines, for example, which can process data extremely quickly to reject bad fruit/veg/cooked crisps/etc from a full conveyor belt. Everything is a tradeoff: there are multiple avenues in which robots will beat humans every time and many where robots are not even close on multiple fronts, not just cognitive.
      • lazide 4y ago
        Of course! I guess I should drop the ‘very fast’ comment (Though that is typical). They can move as fast as they have been designed to move, if further computation is not required. In most cases (repetitive work, stuff with relatively basic, straightforward computation - the human equivalent of reflexes), that means they’re basically constrained by their physical limits. Those fast object detection algorithms require an extremely artificial environment (with high contrast backgrounds, tuned high intensity light), and are generally only good at sorting specific classes of items, at least last I researched them. The algorithms involve do a LOT of down sampling too, if I remember. They aren’t general purpose navigation or object detection algorithms, I’m trying to say, and won’t work at that speed in anything but a very controlled environment. It’s the problem that a lot of players have been dumping billions into for decades - Waymo, DJI, Tesla, and a million smaller names. General purpose navigation in an unknown environment starts running up against real hardware limits right now at speed, even with essentially unlimited power budgets (aka a car, truck, drone with a huge battery and limited flight time, etc). Based on the context, I understood the question to be in reference to something portable, and most of those hardware implementations would be nearly impossible to fit in a humanoid style robot. It’s going to take a decade or so for that to change probably, maybe a half that, depending on what Skydio and DJI have cooking.
• seydor 4y ago
  such a well grounded and scientific opinion. sure to attract similar anecdotes and make valid conclusions Incidentally, is it well grounded that exercise prevents aging, and at what level? We should be watching aging research more carefully
• aargh_aargh 4y ago
  https://youtu.be/5HgSnS-z4JU https://youtu.be/5HgSnS-z4JU I promise this is highly relevant and worth hearing, even though it may not seem directly related.
• delecti 4y ago
  It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it matches my subjective experience. I think better when I've been exercising, but it doesn't feel like I've given my brain a workout so much as it feels like I gave it percussive maintenance. It feels like exercise turns the sound of my subconscious from a buzzy rattle to a gentle hum, keeping it out of my way except to help. It very much does not feel like I've given my mind a workout. Though I also have unmedicated ADHD, so my subjective experience of my subconscious might be different than most.
  • ericbarrett 4y ago
    How old are you (roughly)? When I was in my 20s and 30s, my health varied a lot; sometimes I was sedentary and sometimes I was very active. But I never noticed a cognitive effect. Now that I'm well into my 40s, it's very noticeable when I've been off the exercise wagon. Not day to day, but definitely on timescales of a week or two. When I'm active, my recall is sharper and my memory clearer. I also feel this with my diet (real vs. processed foods) and drinking.
    • peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      Not the op, but I am 45, did a lot of sport till my 20s, I don't exercise anymore, since at least 20 years, what I notice now is the lack of proper rest: not sleeping enough, for example. Exercise actually makes me numb these days and I need a couple of days to recover. While immersing in deep focused studying or exercising my mind by learning new stuff, makes me feel a lot better and much sharper. To each his own I think. edit: a friend of mine who never did sports at young age tells me he feels better now that he goes swimming regularly at the age of 42, but who can tell if it is just because exercise is a new experience to him?
      • ericbarrett 4y ago
        > While immersing in deep focused studying or exercising my mind by learning new stuff, makes me feel a lot better and much sharper. I certainly agree with you on this. In my case, a healthy lifestyle makes taking on new challenges much easier: I'm less intimidated, and less frustrated by the slope of the inevitable learning curve.
• aaronrobinson 4y ago
  IME running allows me to solve problems and my theory is that my brain has less capacity to waste because it’s having to concentrate on all those things it needs to propel me safely, leaving my thoughts less cluttered. When I become fit enough I often find myself ‘waking up’ during longer runs, as though I had been in a meditative state. It seems completely plausible that the brain has to do more when running than when solving a puzzle.
  • phkahler 4y ago
    Read about EMDR therapy an its origin (walking). Getting the two halves of the brain working together seems to be important.
  • vervez 4y ago
    Here's a short (unscientific) article (that kinda links to scinetific articles) about the link between lactic acid buildup and its relation in the brain. Sounds like exercise generates a natural nootropic. https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/lactic-acid-fuels-your-brain/ https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/lactic-acid-...
• csours 4y ago
  I believe that the Brain-Computer analogy has been very harmful. I grew up thinking of myself as a "brain on a stick" - my body didn't really matter and only my brain was important. I think read a bunch of science fiction that made fun of this idea, but I didn't realize it was making fun of it and I took it seriously. You are not a brain on a stick - your body is important. Developing an understanding of your sensations and emotions is important. Developing an understanding of your deeply held beliefs and assumptions is important. Keeping your body healthy is important.
  • marginalia_nu 4y ago
    You can largely blame Descartes for this notion.
    • vlabakje90 4y ago
      This rather finds its origin in religion (Abrahamic, amongst others), where the soul is regarded being as separate from the body.
      • marginalia_nu 4y ago
        Mind-body dualism is an older position than Descartes, but cartesian dualism is distinct from the Aristotelian hylemorphic theories that were popular for a long time before, and still profoundly shapes the way we think in ways that may be difficult to even realize because the world view completely permeates all modern western thought. It does however become very apparent when you read pre-cartesian authors that their views on the soul are off. If you equate the soul with consciousness, it's obvious that a potted plant does not have a soul. If you view it as the animating principle, it's equally ridiculous to say a potted plant doesn't have a soul, since it's so clearly growing.
  • mikrl 4y ago
    > Developing an understanding of your sensations and emotions is important There are pleasant social side effects from doing this but sometimes being so in tune can affect you in weird ways too.
• deleted 4y ago
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• pcf 4y ago
  The book "Spark" by John Ratey also talks a lot about how regular aerobic exercise simply balances out a lot of systems, and very likely will help against everything from depression to Alzheimers.
  • spmurrayzzz 4y ago
    I came here to post the same thing re: Ratey's work. Spark has been an important book for me, it's the reason I bought an exercise bike for my apartment. I've always worked out 2 or 3 times per week, but extended high heart rate cardio was something I always avoided before I discovered the neurological/cognitive benefits.
• beebeepka 4y ago
  I guess it depends on what one considers "exercise". I don't think lifting weights in disgusting smelly rooms translates improved cognition by itself but I don't mind if people think it does. That said, I experienced a real physical and mental decline quickly after I gave up my morning routine because it was too hot. I felt it mere weeks into the pause. Pretty ordinary.
  • xeromal 4y ago
    I don't think the author required that you had to go to the gym. You can always work out at home and smell your own BO.
    • beebeepka 4y ago
      The "article" is two short paragraphs. They didn't say much of anything. Take my comment as a meta commentary - making fun of the bro science here that I didn't want to engage directly.
• ghotli 4y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurobiological_effects_of_physical_exercise https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurobiological_effects_of_p... "Neurobiological effects of physical exercise" Lots of handwavy / subjective comments led me to post this. Personally I prefer understanding the acronyms as to what's been measured in the body due to regular exercise. No need for anything less than hard detail, imo. BDNF/VEGF expression, etc etc. Worth reading and looking up all the words you don't know yet.
  • 0xcde4c3db 4y ago
    I agree that this is a good idea overall, but also keep in mind that there are some major caveats: 1) A specific measure going up or down with exercise might or might not actually lead to the practical improvements that "should" go with it (cf. Goodhart's law) 2) Many studies are poorly designed or outright defective, and it tends to take a shockingly long time for people to stop routinely citing known-bad studies. 3) Even studies that lack fundamental flaws still often come with major practical limitations that tend to undermine attempts to generalize them. Exercise studies in particular are often limited to either "healthy" people of a relatively narrow age range or people who have a specific medical condition. In the latter case, there may be exclusion criteria that render the sample population non-representative of the overall population with that condition (e.g. in terms of overall severity, specific complications, or comorbidities). 4) Results are often summarized in a way that exaggerates their importance. A small effect size might be glossed over by emphasizing the large percentage of subjects for whom the change was statistically significant, for example.
• hnthrowaway0328 4y ago
  Once one has a kid he/she will immediately realize that physical competence is not a luxury but a must-have for basic survival.
• abbadadda 4y ago
  “Exercise turns out to be the closest thing to a wonder drug that self-control scientists have discovered. For starters, the willpower benefits of exercise are immediate. Fifteen minutes on a treadmill reduces cravings, as seen when researchers try to tempt dieters with chocolate and smokers with cigarettes. The long-term effects of exercise are even more impressive. It not only relieves ordinary, everyday stress, but it’s as powerful an antidepressant as Prozac. Working out also enhances the biology of self-control by increasing baseline heart rate variability and training the brain. When neuroscientists have peered inside the brains of new exercisers, they have seen increases in both gray matter—brain cells—and white matter, the insulation on brain cells that helps them communicate quickly and efficiently with each other. Physical exercise—like meditation—makes your brain bigger and faster, and the prefrontal cortex shows the largest training effect.” - Kelly McGonigal
  • jrh206 4y ago
    > as seen when researchers try to tempt dieters with chocolate and smokers with cigarettes This sounds so unethical. If I were a dieter or ex-smoker I would definitely not sign up for this sort of study.
  • adverbly 4y ago
    When I read things like this I can't help but wonder why so many "gym rats" are... lets just say "not quite all there". Obviously some are far above, above, or of average cognitive abilities, but at my school many athletes/kinesthesiology students were embarrassingly, shockingly bad at math/science/logic despite spending by far the most time in the gym - and all the tutoring in the world doesn't seem to make up for it.
    • ok123456 4y ago
      You restricted your sample to student athletes and kinesthesiology majors. There are plenty of people who work out regularly who don't fall into those categories. The student athletes are, likely, being forced to seek out tutoring to remain on an active roster. Academics is not generally their top concern, and they're being coerced to see you. They're there to check a box. I'm sure there are good people going through a kinesthesiology program, but it doesn't have the best reputation for attracting the best students.
• ninjinxo 4y ago
  What if sleep is the best cognitive exercise?
  • thinkharderdev 4y ago
    Depends on the relevant margin. If you get adequate sleep then sleeping more won't help (and may actually hurt) but exercise can actually raise the baseline. To use a very rough analogy, sleep is like the fan in your computer. If it's working optimally it ensures you can utilize the CPU close to its physical limit. But exercise is like upgrading the CPU.
  • tomjakubowski 4y ago
    Anecdotally, exercising regularly has improved my sleep quite a lot.
• travisporter 4y ago
  I think this study is relevant. Athletes do a ton of processing https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn2672 https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn2672
• deleted 4y ago
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• themodelplumber 4y ago
  The logic makes sense, especially if you consider sensory negotiation its own special activity using various cognitive tools. But also, there are some very interesting layers of things going on. In talking to various athletes about running, the mental process and related result of the activity sometimes seems completely different from person to person to a stark degree. As an example, some long-distance runners experience running as a de facto journaling exercise, as they are able to benefit from an ongoing internal monologue. So the results are similar to getting free mental wellness care for as long as you care to run. So, that's also a lot of what we'd call growth and development going on. They also report that this is unique to running for them, IOW they don't experience this sitting at a desk. And that's just one example process and outcome, with others being similarly prized, if completely different. (If this was something I experienced myself, I think I might be a distance runner too... It's pretty cool.)
  • merely-unlikely 4y ago
    +1 for the theory. I do my best thinking running, biking, and walking while I find sitting in place inhibits my ability to think dramatically. However, I also find staring out the window in a moving train or car conducive to thinking in a way staring out a stationary window is not.
• orsenthil 4y ago
  Exercising is just more honest than using brain, for say, reasoning with words. In the order, I will say 1. Physical Exercise 2. Building Something that stands by itself and works, 3. Solving a well defined problem are all honest undertakings. In real messy world, we deal with ambiguities and people, and it requires some skill reduce them to the above three and be honest about it.
  • a9h74j 4y ago
    +1 here for mentioning "building something [physical] that .. works" as part of a cognitively healthy mix.
• chiefalchemist 4y ago
  Exercise is healthy. Full stop. The body / mind paradigm is false. There is no separation. They are deeply - and wisely - entangled. The brain is an organ, and organs in aggregate benefit from exercise. The result is a healthier system / unit. Are puzzels and such a bad thing? No. But they're not going to fix a compromised, or too often, broken system.
• aliqot 4y ago
  Working out makes you more cognitively sharp because it increases the rate of fluid transfer throughout your body and increases metabolism. Ancillary effects of this are calmness, endorphins, and regulated sleep. There I said it, no magic science required. You bring balance in, you get balance out. This ain't the type of cut throat science most of you on HN expect, but sometimes the simple explanation is the one.
  • b33j0r 4y ago
    I believe most of this, except that no one I know who works out a lot is calm. If anything, I’m always looking around for empty syringes. They act like they are gonna climb a mountain then come back and try to make me do Beachbody and chalean extreme, then yell at me about what I eat ;) Not saying exercise is bad, but I do not associate it with calmness. (I’m a healthy dude, you are not hearing this from someone 50 lbs overweight)
    • trashface 4y ago
      Maybe the non-calm exercisers are also loading up on stimulants.
    • bogota 4y ago
      Your comment was a wild ride. First asserting people who work out aren’t calm and then going into steroid use.
      • b33j0r 4y ago
        Letting you in. It was a joke about people coming at you and the contrast with health. I am a writer, it was intentional. Hope the wild ride was enjoyable!
    • ramraj07 4y ago
      Working out doesn’t by itself make you Albert Einstein or Dalai Lama. It just makes you better than you were before, at least according to these studies. One could speculate why folks who are already prone to exercising aren’t necessarily calm folks but that’s just speculation.
• scarface74 4y ago
  I’ve got a really obscure personal anecdote. I have cerebral palsy. For all intents and purposes it’s really mild. It only really affects my left hand and slightly my left foot. I’ve been an average runner at times in my life (10 minute miles up to 15Ks), a part time fitness instructor for slightly over a decade from my mid 20s to mid 30s extra. What I noticed when it came to anything highly choreographed like dancing or a complex fitness routine and trying to listen to the beat and stay on beat, even though I can physically do the moves, it takes me a lot longer to process choreography than most people. It was mentally much more challenging and tiring than anything I do at my day job (software development). I don’t see how simple exercise could be cognitive exercise. I could completely zone out while running.
  • robotresearcher 4y ago
    Most of what your brain does is not available to consciousness. You can be zoned out and brain-busy. Placing your feet running on a rocky trail is an amazingly complex task.
    • scarface74 4y ago
      Funny enough, walking on uneven terrain takes a lot of concentration for me - again the CP. But running on pavement a few miles allows me to zone out.
  • bjornsing 4y ago
    Interesting. How about something like soccer?
    • scarface74 4y ago
      I’ve been “fit” at various times in my life by various definitions - ie a decent runner, weightlifter, etc. But I’ve never been “coordinated” enough to be even average at any sport. Luckily in High School and college, I could choose swimming and weightlifting as my Physical Ed requirements, Even being a fitness instructor didn’t take dynamic coordination since I was in charge of the class, do moves I was completely comfortable with and rehearsed extensively. I was never a good student in a highly choreographed fitness class. I picked up moves here and there from other instructors and made them my own.
• knodi 4y ago
  Shouldn’t people working laborious jobs have higher than normal office jobs cognitively healthy?
  • lob_it 4y ago
    What percentage of either are actually in a healthy environment? The stats from the AHA show 60%-70% are overweight/obese. Another study shows upwards of 70% on perscription medication. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-shows-70-percent-of-americans-take-prescription-drugs/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-shows-70-percent-of-ameri... To actually meet a "natural" is quite rare :) BMI is a lifestyle choice, but obviously unhealthy environments are a side effect of low-quality data/food/education
• SnowHill9902 4y ago
  I’d go as far as to say that the burden of proof is on anybody claiming that regular exercise is not as fundamental as regular eating or regular sleeping or regular breathing. Reductionist, functionalist science has been extremely harmful in shaping how people understand themselves.
• fkregexp 4y ago
  Read the title as "what if regular expressions is the best cognitive exercise" and I was fairly skeptical.
• dukeofdoom 4y ago
  I did the stairway to heaven in hike in Hawaii. Started when it was still dark. It was exhausting, but in many ways it felt mind opening. Certain physical experiences build neural connections that you can't get any other way. Just being in a position to slip and die will make you alert and releases adrenaline, and you need to focus. Regular mountain climbers are probably different humans. Plus the views were spectacular.
• 1659447091 4y ago
  At the risk of sounding to newage-y, I experience the benefits of exercising as energy balancing. Solving problems, learning and building new things all day can be very mentally exhausting. Cardio, sports, lifting; helps re-balance the physical with the mental. I am sure there are more scientific words and biological descriptions that I lack the vocabulary for. If I get too mentally focused on a project/job/problem and go days without matching it with vigorous physical activity, I end up not sleeping as well, am less tolerant, more scattered and brain fog tends to start rolling in. If I counter it with the physical exercise or physical energy expenditure the mental clarity comes back, I sleep better, and don't have hair-triggered verbal impulse control issues. Otherwise, if I let it go for too long, lethargy sets in - which I attribute to the body/physical and mind/mental trying to rebalance itself. I dont think it cares that it makes me feel like crap overall, more that it's neutral in just wanting a balance however that comes about. I often refer to exercise as me taking care of my mental health - as opposed to being physically fit. That could be seen as "exercise [being] the best cognitive exercise". Looking at it that way, exercise creates a mental-out imbalance, which causes the stored energy in the mind to be stimulated and need more output creating the mental sharpness. Obviously I have nothing to back up the claims other than decades of experiencing this to be true for me time and time again; though I do believe there are better biological explanations than energy.
  • deleted 4y ago
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  • ksimukka 4y ago
    Sigh. I let myself go weeks without exercising and feel terrible, both mentally and physically.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • krallja 4y ago
      And if I would just exercise I would remember that exercise would solve the problem... but I don't have the mental foresight to do so, so I let it go for another day, and another...
• osigurdson 4y ago
  Single datapoint: I ran 50k per week on average for 1.5 years during Covid. I don’t feel it changed my cognitive ability. I also deeply believe that exercise should make a difference in these areas. I’m at a loss to explain the lack of impact that it had.
  • gateorade 4y ago
    50k per week is kind of a lot. I’m assuming you were training for something specific and were therefore on top of it, but that amount of work could definitely negatively effect your cognitive ability if you weren’t getting enough calories/protein/water/sodium to replenish what you were losing.
    • osigurdson 4y ago
      I built up to that over a few months. Basically, three 10Ks during the week + 20K on the weekend. I was using the Maffetone approach so none of these runs were taxing.
    • robocat 4y ago
      “Running” starts at about 10km/h: say 5 hours spread over a week is not a lot. Walking is about 5 km/h, jogging is in-between. Average pace is something near 10 km/h for Strava users aged 20 to 49: https://www.healthline.com/health/fitness-exercise/average-running-speed https://www.healthline.com/health/fitness-exercise/average-r...
      • osigurdson 4y ago
        It is more about the metabolic situation that you put your body in vs an explicit pace. Elite runners can easily be in fully aerobic zones at 4 min/km paces, while unfit runners could be getting into anaerobic zones at double that. I’m not sure why but “jogging” is a term that isn’t commonly used these days. Perhaps it is because one person’s easy run can be pretty fast while another’s full out run (beyond 500m or so) can look like jogging.
    • osigurdson 4y ago
• dimmke 4y ago
  I read this title as "what if regular expressions are the best cognitive exercise?" And decided I would rather just be dumb in the span of 2 seconds.
• blackoil 4y ago
  Our brain is made of different parts with different responsibility. Will exercising one part materially help rest? For body we have exercise schedule, does something similar exist for brain?
• scmitton 4y ago
  There's a recent freakonomics episode that talks about this question (13:18) https://freakonomics.com/podcast/can-you-learn-to-love-hard-work/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/can-you-learn-to-love-hard-... The host Stephen Dubner sites a piece in psychology today that argues physical activity is strongly connected with cognitive function. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201403/eight-habits-improve-cognitive-function https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201...
• ourmandave 4y ago
  Ah, but what if regular expressions are the best cognitive exercise? ~ Regex email address validation committee
• rayrey 4y ago
  I know that one thing that really distinguishes humans from other animals is our ability to throw objects with incredible accuracy. Some of our primate cousins can throw as well, but not with such precision. Consider the amount of processing our mind is doing with each throw, especially in a fast moving game.
  • a9h74j 4y ago
    I have no basis for disagreement (although how many "only humans can" statements have fallen over the years). I wonder if a human proclivity towards organized sports could contribute, though. Organized sport also suggests organized practice and many opportunities for repetition. These could be required for accuracy up to physical and cognitive limits.
• bob1029 4y ago
  I have found the specific nature of exercise to be very important in this regard. Moderate cardio is definitely beneficial and helps to maintain some baseline. But, I have never really felt like I "stepped up" to a new level without reaching out to things like HIIT, heavy weight lifting and other forms of plyometrics. Something about pushing your brain into the "oh shit I don't know if I should be doing this" territory seems to trigger the most powerful effects.
• throwawaaarrgh 4y ago
  I know plenty of people who exercise a lot and are still idiots. I also used to be very fit, but I only felt cognitively sharper after learning a lot of different complex stuff over time
  • xenospn 4y ago
    What if you did both?
• jasfi 4y ago
  I think the key word here is regular. That goes for crosswords, etc. as well.
• deleted 4y ago
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• AlbertCory 4y ago
  Trigger warning: Self-promotion here. I'm not selling anything, though. Your brain is part of your body. It's as simple as that. I just celebrated 50 years of running: https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/50-years-of-running https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/50-years-of-running I thought long & hard about motivation and how I've kept it up. "Will power" is not it. And I've heard every conceivable excuse about why someone does not exercise. Here's a big one: "people will look at me weird." Or on the flip side, "All my friends exercise, so I have to, too." The great Richard Feynman had something to say about that. https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/what-do-you-care-what-other-people https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/what-do-you-care-what-ot... And lastly, don't listen to people telling you that you need a regular schedule that you stick to, no matter what. You will never keep that up for long, and if you really hate some exercise, you'll stop: https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/only-do-exercises-you-like-on-the https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/only-do-exercises-you-li...
  • wazoox 4y ago
    > don't listen to people telling you that you need a regular schedule that you stick to, no matter what. You will never keep that up for long... I've been running 6 days a week for 15 years now. What works for you may not work for other, and vice-versa. I definitely hated running for most of my life, and despised sport in general, but sticking to a routine definitely was the right solution for me.
    • AlbertCory 4y ago
      • andscoop 4y ago
        This comment reads antagonistic and oppositional. I don’t think you should have a monopoly on advice just because you’ve been doing something for longer.
        • AlbertCory 4y ago
• hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  Let's suppose for a moment that the numerous studies showing the benefits of exercise don't exist and its influence on cognition is neutral. Shouldn't you move, then? On the contrary - exercise is absolutely necessary for our survival and minimizing the probability of a huge number of illnesses, from cardiac problem to cancers. So a person who is not exercising is basically neglecting their condition. Now, when you add the numerous cognitive benefits to the equation, you would be crazy not to add some movements to your daily routine. Literally everything counts. I use every opportunity to increase my oxygen and blood flow - and I'm not surprised that the best ideas come when I'm not in front of my computer.
• irrational 4y ago
  There are a number of things that take effort, but I know I will feel much better afterwards and be happy I did them. But it takes so much to get myself to do them that they often don’t get done in favor of low effort low to medium reward things.
• dav 4y ago
  Exercise (and particularly strength as opposed to cardio) is now well established to reduce many aging related effects, including around cognition. I suggest the book Defy Aging by Beth Bennett for a HN level deep dive into the science.
• polskibus 4y ago
  Apparently squats are great for mental abilities, compared to other types of exercise. https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p09v8wyh/a-simple-exercise-that-gives-your-brain-an-unexpected-boost https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p09v8wyh/a-simple-exercise-th...
  • bob1029 4y ago
    Back squats are amazing. If you want to recruit even more muscle groups, you can try front squats instead. These are typically a precursor/supporting exercise for olympic lifting.
• warner25 4y ago
  Cal Newport talks quite a bit in his books (definitely Deep Work, but probably others too) about the linkage between walking or running and thinking creatively and solving hard problems. In high school, I noted with curiosity that the cross country team had an extraordinary proportion of kids who excelled academically, going to top-tier colleges based on their academic merit alone. I chalked it up to an overlap between the traits required for both distance running and academic excellence: daily persistence, measured in hours, at something that doesn't involve a lot of action or cheering crowds. But there's probably more to it than that. Military flight training is known to be like medical or law school for many people, spending all day memorizing technical manuals and regulations when not in the cockpit learning to fly. Despite military requirements for physical fitness, and the fact that officers need high fitness scores to get into flight school, many officers let their fitness slide in that environment. I found early on that making time for exercise had a very noticeable effect on my day-to-day performance, both in memorizing stuff and in the cockpit, and I rose to the top of my class. In particular, practicing golf (which involves a lot of finesse, but I also walked and carried my own bag) for a few holes after class every evening seemed to help with learning to execute precise maneuvers on the flight controls.
  • vegcel 4y ago
    Werner Herzog: ‘The world reveals itself to those who travel on foot’
• hprotagonist 4y ago
  when brain is tired, go make meat tired too.
• hamreh0076 4y ago
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• Waterluvian 4y ago
  The problem I have with the exercise community is that (usually unintentionally) they made it look complicated and expensive. A 25 minute walk while listening to a podcast each day has done absolute wonders for everything in my life.
  • johnfn 4y ago
    Haha, yeah. Free doesn't have much of a marketing budget. :)
• lavp 4y ago
  The author ignores the fact that we utilize a lot of computing power in training artificial intelligence. Where exactly would 'learning' fit in this analogy?
• caycecan 4y ago
  Barbara Tversky's book "Mind in Motion" is a great read on how our minds are inextricable form locomotion will add tons of data and hypotheses to this idea https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Motion-Action-Shapes-Thought/dp/046509306X https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Motion-Action-Shapes-Thought/dp/... And yes her husband was Amos Tversky, co-author of "Thinking, Fast and Slow"
• someweirdperson 4y ago
  The story is about the brain computing power needed for exercise, not the physical aspect. Obviously, different kinds of exercise require different computing power. Playing a musical instrument likely requires as much brain activity as physical exercise, without much of the physical part, and should work as well to keep the brain active.
• 90d 4y ago
  This is so admirably true. My workout story started at 30. I spent one year doing pull ups, dips, push ups, squats.. various weight training as well. At a certain point I had improved my diet just to change my workouts. I want as many blessings to resonate through me from the universe as possible. I don't even have any preconceptions of what those will be; I have done my best to accept them. The effects of time under tension become remarkable for mental and cardiovascular health if you find a routine you enjoy. Start with a group, friend who goes, many non-national gyms will even have someone let you around if you call in. For me it was the local park having some shaded calisthenics equipment. Do a search in your area!! There is no pressure there, its outside, there is people of course it improves you! It can teach you all you need to know for atleast 6 months to a year if you let it. Anyone you come across will either not bother or be very friendly. Most commonly the regulars working out at these parks have a cool and unique mindset and would answer any workout question for you. After a year THEN try all that fancy stuff you would have possibly ego-lifted, struggled/injured yourself on. You will be amazed at your performance.
  • pstuart 4y ago
    > you want as many blessings to resonate through you from the universe as possible That's a keeper.
• adverbly 4y ago
  Interesting piece. I've heard similar evidence in the past about how physical exercise is "good for the mind". If the author's reasoning about the computational requirements for motion are correct though, perhaps we need to do a bit of digging into why yoga/meditation is also supposedly quite "good for the mind", and yet they are significantly less complex from a motion standpoint than things such as martial arts/dancing/sports - which don't have the same reputation. Would love to see some research done though!
• latchkey 4y ago
  I found that getting a dog and going for extended walks has been fantastic for my cognitive ability and general mood.
• varelse 4y ago
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• thesz 4y ago
  The stresses that make body need brains and grow these brains and nervous system as a whole, are stresses that were encountered during evolution: hunger, need to endure (long walk, long work) and need to apply force (run fast, lift heavy). When body experience these three stresses it produces brain derived neutrotrophic factor [1], which acts as a growth hormone for nervous system as a whole and also grows brain, in areas related to long term memory, higher cognitive functions (language, logic, spatial navigation, etc) and learning. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-derived_neurotrophic_factor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain-derived_neurotrophic_fac... It works as if you can build "thinking muscles" which will help in every aspect of life. E.g., if you barbell squat, you most probably will also run faster and you also will be more stable. Squats are not directly related to running, but they help nevertheless. If you do endurange training and/or intermittent fasting, you will be more cognitively capable. Endurance training is not directly related to thinking, but it helps nevertheless. So, yes. An exercise for general purpose thinking is an exercise.
  • tinktank 4y ago
    Have there been any studies on quantitative effects? If I wanted to increase my IQ 1 point how much exercise should I be doing?
    • tomjakubowski 4y ago
      I don't know about exercise, but an easy way to increase your IQ score is to take the test repeatedly.
    • vasco 4y ago
      None where you get hit in the head. Curious to see martial arts where you can get punched in the face anywhere near "good for brain" discussions.
      • thesz 4y ago
        Thank you! Martial arts is a pet peeve of mine. First, I think I should note that amateur boxing does not incur brain damage that is recognizable by contemporary methods. I see no studies contrary to that. Thus, basically, if you like boxing or other martial arts training, do that - having some exercise is better than not having any, and boxing is quite taxing. Then, I should proceed to my main point: how martial arts training of someone's choice corresponds to the three stresses that elevate BDNF? Typical martial art will train you for strength endurance. Strength endurance is an ability to exert about 30% of your 1RM for a prolonged period of time and training it is not directly a strength training neither it is an endurance training. I think one should train for strength and/or stamina (direct relation with BDNF levels) and then take classes on martial arts technique (pattern recognition and reaction). This is how sambo/judo champions are trained, from what I know.
• mrwh 4y ago
  For me, I feel best running a couple of times a week. More than that and it becomes fatiguing, less and I feel heavier, my back plays up, etc. I say running, I mean jogging, and not seriously either, just a couple of miles around the neighborhood. While I've no idea whether this is the actual physiological effect, it does feel like an internal power wash of sorts. As I write this, a family jogs past. It's rather sweet.
• dehrmann 4y ago
  > Recent advances in AI, and less recent advances in computing in general showed that a lot of the things we consider “cognitively hard”...can be reproduced by computer machinery a lot simpler than we originally thought... > Robots still have a hard time navigating terrain and manipulating stuff I actually think you're seeing the same thing. The way DALL-E screws up important details is the same as how self-driving cars work perfectly fine 99% of the time. The devil is in the details.
• Py-o7 4y ago
  There's a lot of literature on various kinds of cardio (esp HIIT and 'zone 2') and lactate production -> BDNF which is loosely understood to be very important for your brain. Some more recent stuff on myokine release (from strength or cardio training) and warding off cognitive decline. Similar with training your balance (a parameter in exercise that is often forgotten). More speculatively: crosswords and sudoku seem fine, but what about something much more cognitively demanding like doing serious mathematics?
• deleted 4y ago
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• Quixotica1 4y ago
  I try to exercise 3 days a week and can say it dramatically improves my mental performance as well as my overall disposition. Always find it sad when people are against exercise and at the same time seem like they could really even fit from the emotional psychological boost
• throwaway4good 4y ago
  I think modern AI or for that matter engineering is fairly broken model for how the human brain or the human body works; and lead to these silly conclusions: It is easy to make a machine that adds two numbers therefor adding numbers cannot be "cognitive hard". Likewise it is easy to make a machine that runs fast, lifts a heavy object or stands one leg therefore ... As for the most challenging activity for keeping sharp at old age: My guess is directly interacting with other people. But if you think lifting weights work for you, then I am not going to argue against you.
• rosstex 4y ago
  Reminder for Hacker News readers to step outside more than once a month so you can realize this naturally instead of applying your booksmart brains to reinvent things that most people not glued to their screens already know.
  • teej 4y ago
    It was once widely believed that for the body to be healthy, it needed the right balance of “humors”: black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood. That was partially right, but mostly wrong. We don’t believe that model any more. It’s always valuable to reassess common knowledge. That is the heart of human progress.
    • rosstex 4y ago
      Even so, the number of people in the comments asking for book recommendations on fitness and nutrition shows that many people here would rather cling to their comfort zone of digging deeper. You can re-evaluate words on paper all day, but it will never, ever compare to the understanding you get from actually trying the thing you want to understand.
      • bigDinosaur 4y ago
        How is asking for book recommendations an indication people are not willing to dig deeper? An intellectual approach to exercise is highly advisable. Yes, you can become too extreme and never end up actually exercising, but conversely a lack of knowledge can lead to poor outcomes depending on your goals.
  • krmboya 4y ago
    The inclination towards reductionism by the more intellectually-minded folk. We want to isolate a small chunk of a phenomenon and understand it really well, but in the process divorce it from its context. We analyse cognitive performance in terms of a few isolated carefully selected variables rather than acknowledge that it is dependent many other variables present in its environment - physical, emotional, social Good for developing expertise in a narrow domain, but perhaps not so good for developing a balanced worldview
• ciconia 4y ago
  I don't do any workout at all. Nevertheless, I'm very physically active. I work from home, and in general I set my own schedule. Whenever I want, I can open the door, go out, work some in the garden, build something, or do any of the house chores - doing the dishes, making bread, cooking something, fixing something. It keeps me on my feet basically the whole day long. I've been doing this every single day for the last few months, and it just feels so good, so satisfying. I feel sharp, in form, physically content. I also feel it gives me a solid emotional center, a calmness and a deep feeling of connection to the moment.
• Madmallard 4y ago
  What is a surprise to literally no one... Exercise improves blood flow which improves cognition. It's not complicated at all whatsoever.
• soheil 4y ago
  I first read that as “what if regular expressions are the best cognitive exercise?” and found it much more interesting.
• wly_cdgr 4y ago
  Exercise can also directly develop job-relevant skills. I've learned a fair amount about project management from my long distance running. And I don't think the idea that team sports teach you to collaborate and lead more effectively in your day job is at all surprising or controversial. As programmers it should be easy for us to see that these are just different instances of the same class.
• alfor 4y ago
  Infrared too. Infrared from the sun penetrate the skull and prevent inflammation in the brain. The effect is reduced dementia in people tha go outside. The infrared is reflected by the plants and thus walking in the shade of tree give increase of infrared exposure. It affect every cell of our body (mitochondria in fact) (Our biology has not evolved inside)
• wisty 4y ago
  > Recent advances in AI, and less recent advances in computing in general showed that a lot of the things we consider “cognitively hard” - from symbolic manipulation to arithmetic, “drawing” and even reasoning - can be reproduced by computer machinery a lot simpler than we originally thought, at a (likely) higher than human level in the near future Robots still have a hard time navigating terrain and manipulating stuff ... > So, here’s the speculation / thesis: exercising, that is, operating our bodies at a higher than baseline level, with everything that entails - energy regulation, unconscious balancing, spatial awareness, etc - requires more computing power than crosswords, sudoku, finding relations between measure theory and first-order logic through category theory, etc I don't buy it. Stuff like "navigating terrain" is something that insects can do often better than robots. It's simply not that hard for animals, which have specialised hardware for this (but on the flipside we lack hardware IEEE compliant floating point units). Exercise is good because the brain is an organ, and general health is good for organs. And because of psychological factors. General and mental health have a huge impact on cognitive performance. Cognitive training is not particularly effective because it's a lot of wistful thinking and snake oil (there might be something to it, but I've seen little evidence that it's particularly effective especially when it comes to transfer). There probably is some cognitive benefit to exercise. Decision making under pressure, discipline, spatial awareness, etc and there would be some transfer to related domains. But I suspect the main effect is just health (which both is better for cognitive performance, and encourages other activities which are good for cognitive performance).
• c7b 4y ago
  The question is, what is the exercise for? We already know from studies that there's very little transfer even between logic-related tasks (say, Sudoku and Chess), so what sort of carry-over could we expect from fitness to logic-related tasks? I guess the answer will be something like: if you want to be a good programmer in old age, your best preparation is to program a lot and regularly. If you want to be a good mathematician, chess player,...., practice those. If you want to have a healthy body in old age, your best prep is regular exercise. You can do more than one, of course, but you can't substitute one for another.
• Beaver117 4y ago
  If exercise is so important, why are people not driven to exercise like they are driven to eat, sleep, and have sex? Despite so much research about the benefits most people do not exercise.
  • infinite8s 4y ago
    The nature of most of human existence was manual labor, which obviates the need for separate exercise.
• snowwrestler 4y ago
  The brain is cognitively efficient for physical movements and situations you experience regularly. We experience this subjectively as opportunities to “zone out” or let our thoughts wander as we do the activity. If you run the same route regularly, after a few dozen times you’re probably not thinking much about the running itself anymore. People learning new activities experience it as the activity “slowing down” subjectively as they learn, giving them more comfort and greater opportunity to think about further improvements. For example learning to ride a bike requires intense thought. But once you know how to ride a bike, it just happens and you can think about where you’re going, or whether you’re in the right aerobic zone, or how fast to take the next jump, etc. So I would bet that to optimize the cognitive benefit of physical activity, it needs to be somewhat novel. Running on a treadmill or swimming in the same pool or lifting weights in the same gym over and over probably would not do it. You’d need some sort of sport (where other players are constantly creating novel situations) or an outdoor sport where natural conditions are always changing. Or frequently trying new sports or activities.
• WR-Iso 4y ago
  i am right there with you our "like minded" individuals are gaining traction and so far this true every thing for me is backwards on this upside down inverted reallity of actuallity
• mik09 4y ago
  Socrates love the gym, I cannot recall the exact remarks he said on it but something like this: https://www.artofmanliness.com/health-fitness/fitness/manvotional-socrates-on-the-importance-of-physical-fitness/ https://www.artofmanliness.com/health-fitness/fitness/manvot... Graham (inventor of Graham's number) also juggles quite well. A lot of mathematicians climb. His friend, Erdos do not exercise as much afaik from reading his biography (takes amphetamine...)
• Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  I will sound negative on purpose, I wish to be wrong. Everything so far in my life seems to be "if you want to be good at something, do that thing repeatedly, or the parts that compose that thing, repeatdly". It makes sense. So why would this be any different, wouldn't use your brain to learn, be the best cognitive exercise?
• amai 4y ago
  Why then are professional athletes rarely Nobel prize winners?