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Cook shortage threatens to sink U.S. Coast Guard operations

• ekianjo 4y ago
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  • shagie 4y ago
    The culinary degree is not the short order scramble eggs type cook (and my apologies to short order cooks reading this - I know you do a lot more than that). A culinary degree also covers food safety, nutrition, sanitation, menu planning, a bit of accounting (purchasing, inventory, storage), and other topics. https://sealiftcommand.com/departments/culinary/chief-cook/25 https://sealiftcommand.com/departments/culinary/chief-cook/2... This isn't a four year STEM bachelors degree, but you want to make sure you have someone who isn't mixing utensils, going short on provisions, or spoiling food.
    • longcommonname 4y ago
      I am a trained military lab tech, military chef and I now do computer things as a civilian. My military training included all those things. When you are feeding a war / humanitarian effort / training you have very little budget to provide a meal that hundreds will want to enjoy in a safe manner. Don't minimize the knowledge/ effort required to do this.
      • shagie 4y ago
        I hope that I didn't trivialize the skills of a cook (too far). I recognize that they have an incredible job with a wide range of responsibilities and are responsible in part for the health and morale of the entire ship's crew. The skills for being the only chef on a 24 person cutter compared to a ship with a hundred or several hundred and an entire staff (and longer deployments https://youtu.be/d2_wBfXBM1Q https://youtu.be/d2_wBfXBM1Q ) places additional demands on that skill set (or even up to the several thousand with an aircraft carrier, though that's not coast guard - https://youtu.be/w5th1yNwatQ https://youtu.be/w5th1yNwatQ and https://youtu.be/nBWWusUzdWk https://youtu.be/nBWWusUzdWk ). It's not like the crew can decide to go to a different restaurant when out at sea.
  • woodruffw 4y ago
    My parse of the sentence wasn't that a degree is required, but that having one will get you a larger bonus. (This also assumes that being a cook on a ship is simple, which it probably isn't.)
    • shagie 4y ago
      > (This also assumes that being a cook on a ship is simple, which it probably isn't.) The ship you are on is going on a 3 month deployment with a stop in port somewhere between 4 weeks in and 6 weeks in (depending on weather). The ship has a crew of 24 people ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinel-class_cutter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinel-class_cutter ). Plan the menus, determine the provisions needed initially on ship and the additional supplies that need to be available when in port mid way through the deployment. Make sure that the menus meet with the necessary requirements for nutrition. Two of the crew have nut allergies and one has a low sodium diet. While the crew total is 24 people, it is possible that others will be brought on top the ship in situations where it is warranted - the provisions need to be able to account for up to an additional four people for a week. You are the only cook and will need to be able to prepare three meals for the entire crew and have an overnight snack available. The ship runs on coffee, it should be better quality than burnt fuel oil. The cook is essential for crew morale (consider being on a ship for 3 months and having a cook who burns all the food). Food safety is also of high importance - having any number of the crew unable to do their duties because of food poisoning is a significant impact on ship function when there's only two dozen people and little overlap.
      • seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Can they just contract out to civilians or even foreigners? A cook from the Philippines for example, give them American pay and it would be pretty fair. There is even a history of Filipinos serving in the US military for varying reasons.
        • TylerE 4y ago
          Militaries tend not to do that, for obvious security reasons.
  • bsder 4y ago
    Hardly. Cooks generally wind up managing inventory--that's a quartermaster-type job and you need some brains to run that. If you screw it up, you screw up the mission completely. The fundamental problem is that the Coast Guard is always chronically underfunded.
    • hinkley 4y ago
      Napoleon Bonaparte offered to set someone up for life if they could come up with a process for shelf stable (or rather, wagon stable) food. “An army marches on its stomach” has been military wisdom for at least that long.
      • eesmith 4y ago
        More specifically, 12,000 francs. The winner was Nicolas Appert, for "thermal processing (aka canning)" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Appert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Appert . Tin cans + can opener took a few more years.
        • hinkley 4y ago
          What I didn’t know is that the same year he published a book describing his process, someone in England figured out metal cans. The germ theory had not been worked out at this point so he knew it worked but not the mechanism. Which is to say I believe everyone understood that boiling made things safe or for longer. It would be almost 50 years before people heard of Pasteur’s work with fermentation (and how to stop it).
          • eesmith 4y ago
            I learned it from the Connections episode "Eat, Drink, and Be Merry", at https://archive.org/details/ConnectionsByJamesBurke/Connections/Season+1/Connections+S01E08+-+Eat%2C+Drink+and+Be+Merry.mp4 https://archive.org/details/ConnectionsByJamesBurke/Connecti... That segment starts at 16:57 (after development of the Swiss pike, changes in military tactics, mass mobilization in France, leading to the need to feed large mobile armies.) This being Burke, it's not until 20:40 that it gets to setting up the competition and Appert. At 24:10 is the transition to talking about tin cans. After discussing a machine to make paper, at 26:06 it leads into the chain of events that resulted in (at 27:49) that French book being translated into English, patented in England, and started (at 28:17) making preserved canned foods - because they were better at metal than bottles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_and_tin_cans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_and_tin_cans says the idea was conceived by Philippe de Girard, who got the British merchant Peter Durand to patent the idea in 1810. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_opener https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_opener adds "the first can openers were not patented until 1855 in England and 1858 in the United States."
  • AndyMcConachie 4y ago
    • politician 4y ago
      Don't be discouraged by the Eternal September.
    • ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      Because this is the coast guard, and like most other large services, most of the things can be centralized and standardized. I live in the balkans, and the military here (during conscription times) had standardized everything... they took a few cooking-inclined conscripts, gave them the recipe and food items per person and they cooked the food. Everything was precalculated. Some people are still so fond of "military food", there are actual military cookbooks for sale, with recipes such as "military beans" (vojnicki pasulj): https://secanja.com/vojnicki-pasulj-po-receptu-jna/ https://secanja.com/vojnicki-pasulj-po-receptu-jna/ (including the tables of nutritional info)
      • nerdponx 4y ago
        This is a good question. It's possible that the Coast Guard places high value on "good food" as part of their morale. It's also possible that the nature of USCG operations prevent them from standardizing food onboard, since it sounds like part of this particular ship's mission brought it to various ports where supplies were not guaranteed.
      • woodruffw 4y ago
        I don't think the problem here is a lack of centralization or standardization. The US's military logistics are well known for successfully (and unsuccessfully) applying both, and it's unlikely that USCG cooks are making custom three course meals for their ships.
    • lostlogin 4y ago
      Lockdown brought this home to some people and seeing those at the privileged end of society realise that teachers, nurses, checkout operators etc are what keeps their world turning was darkly amusing. It seems to be forgotten fast though, sadly.
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• theflyingelvis 4y ago
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• jeffbee 4y ago
  This is the United States reaping. There was a time when all but literally every cook and steward was a Filipino national. This was possible because 1) that nation has a strong tradition at sea, and 2) a post-war agreement between U.S. and Philipines allowed them to enlist. This agreement ended in 1992, and anyone who entered under that old program is retired.
  • metaphor 4y ago
    Relevant historical context: https://www.mycg.uscg.mil/News/Article/2595148/the-long-blue-line-asian-cuttermen-the-first-100-years-of-unique-service-history/ https://www.mycg.uscg.mil/News/Article/2595148/the-long-blue... > This unique system of enlisting foreign nationals, primarily Asian men, to serve in domestic and food service positions would remain in place for the next 100 years. > In 1901, President William McKinley signed an executive order allowing the U.S. Navy to recruit hundreds of native non-naturalized Filipinos to serve in domestic and food service positions. As a result of these territorial acquisitions and McKinley’s executive order, hundreds of Filipinos and other Asian nationals would join the Revenue Cutter Service in the ratings of steward, cook and boy. > However, in 1947, the United States and Republic of the Philippines signed an agreement allowing the U.S. to once again recruit citizens of the Philippines for voluntary enlistment in the U.S. military. Enlisting Philippine nationals for domestic service on Coast Guard cutters continued for another 20 years, however, these men could choose to change to a non-food service rating or pursue an officer’s commission after gaining citizenship. Finally, in 1971, this practice was discontinued and all enlisted ratings were opened to Filipinos that qualified by means of education, prior experience and security qualifications.
    • eesmith 4y ago
      I visited the USS Midway Aircraft Carrier Museum in San Diego. The officer's mess had pictures on the wall, all with Filipino wait staff. I didn't understand why that was the case, so asked the (ex-)officer/docent who was nearby. He pointed out the 1947 change, and added that previously black men were the stewards, but since integration in the military opened up other jobs, fewer black men wanted to be a steward.
  • 4y ago
• nerdponx 4y ago
  > Coast Guard culinary specialists are critical afloat. But, on bases, contractors have taken away many shore billets culinary specialists need to recharge after a stint at sea. Lacking spots at kitchens ashore, Coast Guard culinary specialists have little choice but to spend their career constantly at sea, struggling to keep old or under-designed ship kitchens operational. And when they are lucky enough to find a shoreside job, they’re usually snatched away to temporarily fill in for an understaffed vessel. The problem, as we are seeing in many other parts of the economy right now, is that if you treat your employees badly, they will eventually all quit, regardless of how good the pay is. Especially so if they are highly-trained professionals that are in high demand elsewhere, as in this case.
  • rsj_hn 4y ago
    There are many situations where jobs suck, or are dangerous, etc. In that case, the employer can make them suck less or pay a lot more. At some point, they will find people to staff those jobs. So I am not a big fan of employers talking about "labor shortages". What they mean is "we have this role, and can't afford to pay the market clearing rate for the role. Therefore there is a shortage." This is as much true for a government employer, non-profit employer, or private sector worker, as they are all hiring from the same labor pool, and workers have a choice as to who to work for. Before you say that "no amount of money is enough", just think that if for some reason they can't have the workers be cooks on shore, they can just pay them a vacation for that same shore period. The cooks on shore could then travel, or take a class, or do whatever they want. If you could find cooks who would work on a mix of shore and sea, but not sea only, then rotate the staff and pay the cooks to do nothing. Obviously an extreme example, but I'm giving it to illustrate the point that yes, it does boil down to money in the end. It usually does.
    • citizenkeen 4y ago
      Anytime someone uses the phrase "labor shortage", remind them that what they have is a "salary shortage".
      • jacobolus 4y ago
• hindsightbias 4y ago
  Looks like a MRE future, at least they’ll have microwaves. Does Soylent have to be refrigerated?
  • atmavatar 4y ago
    Whenever you have hungry people, you can always get your Soylent fresh.
  • UncleEntity 4y ago
    I’m guessing whoever downvoted you hasn’t had to live off MREs for extended periods of time. We didn’t care about having to do the grunt work for the cooks when the alternative was not having hot chow. Plus they didn’t really care too much about our pilfering as long as we kept it somewhat reasonable.
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• Animats 4y ago
  Most of the US population is too fat, too criminal, too sick, too dumb, or too drugged out for the military. "Only 23% of Americans aged 17 to 24 are eligible to join without being granted a waiver." Waiving some of the rejection requirements doesn't help. Most of those enlisted below standards don't make it past the first year. The U.S. Army is trying a 90-day pre boot camp training program.[1] There are two tracks, one for the fat ones, and one for the uneducated ones. The educational track focuses on word knowledge, paragraph comprehension, and arithmetic reasoning. Enough practical literacy to follow the simpler Army field manuals. The fat track has the troops on this track losing 1 to 2% body fat per month. Those who can't meet the minimal standards for enlistment in 90 days are released. [1] https://www.army.mil/article/258753 https://www.army.mil/article/258753
  • MrStonedOne 4y ago
  • socialismisok 4y ago
    The people with these qualities are victims of systemic problems. Underfunded education, poverty, abuse, criminal justice that just throws everyone in jail. We fix those things, I guarantee the army will have much better recruits.
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    • angry_octet 4y ago
      If you cleansed every conviction for petty possession that alone would solve the problem. But radical evangelicals hold senior positions in the services, and they don't like people unlike themselves. Then we have other crimes of poverty like not paying parking tickets (no money for the meter, aggressive local govt parking restrictions to exclude undesirable poor people), driving unregistered (because they're broke but you're an unperson without a car) etc. And of course, driving while black.
      • 4y ago
• socialismisok 4y ago
  It's not a cook shortage, it's an incentive shortage. I'm guessing coast guard cooks have a pretty shitty time. It's better than nothing, but there are just better employment options these days.
• dr_dshiv 4y ago
  • s5300 4y ago
    • leereeves 4y ago
      So full of hate, you are. Also I guess you've never heard of Medicare coverage for hospice care and nursing homes.
      • lotsofpulp 4y ago
        I would not want to subject myself or love ones to the quality of services that Medicare pays for. From having visited a few, it seems like the system depends on desperate immigrant women from very poor countries. Apparently, not unlike this coast guard situation. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33432102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33432102
        • leereeves 4y ago
          No one wants to need nursing home care, but we all will, unless we're lucky enough to die suddenly. And it's not a pleasant job. I guess Americans don't want to do it, which brings this discussion back to the original topic.
          • mrguyorama 4y ago
            Americans would ABSOLUTELY do this job if 1) the actual money in the system went to them instead of MBAs at the top. These companies charge the states $12k a month or more! They then give you a room, and one nurse who has like 30 people to take care of and therefore cannot give you the care and effort needed. Where the hell is the money going? Because it's not going to services rendered.
          • lotsofpulp 4y ago
• Ekaros 4y ago
  Time to automate it? Maybe some type of self-service? Non-heated non-perishable options?
  • rsaxvc 4y ago
    > Non-heated non-perishable options? Tastes like morale drop.
    • mrguyorama 4y ago
      This is why the US armed forces focuses so heavily on logistics. Giving your soldiers fresh, basically home cooked, familiar meals in literally the desert does wonders for their morale, and keeping morale high has an absurdly powerful effect on soldier effectiveness.
• langsoul-com 4y ago
  When watching those military cook docs and then work, it really doesn't seem like a great job. Long LONG hours for not the best pay, for navy it's worse because you're always at sea.
  • Balgair 4y ago
    Though untrue, the 'cook' position is commonly known as the position-of-last-resort in many armed forces. As in, you're too dumb to be trusted with a gun, here's a spoon. It's not true, but the perception persists.
• vallanceroad 4y ago
  I looked up the vessel mentioned in the article (USCGC Oliver Henry) to get an idea of how large it was. It led me to the Wikipedia entry for the namesake Coast Guardsman himself, Oliver Henry. Henry started serving in the Coast Guard as a mess steward, which was an all-black rating while the armed forces were still segregated. Due to his his pre-service work as an auto mechanic, he was the first Coast Guardsman to transfer from the mess steward rating to a motor machinist mate. He ended his career as a warrant officer. The mess steward rating has been renamed to "culinary specialist". Clearly it's no coincidence this particular boat was chosen to reflect this interesting article. His Wikipedia entry is worth a read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Henry_(USCG) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Henry_(USCG)
• angry_octet 4y ago
  The answer is obvious: shore billets, and not being moved between them too often unless you ask. Not being at sea for long tours, more often than 1/3rd of the time. Three and six month deployments instead of twelve. This is not done because big $$$ contracts and outsourcing is seen as more important than capability or people by those in Congress. There's no one providing kickbacks and dark money campaign financing if you have Navy ratings cooking food ashore or buying produce (skills they will need to later transition to civilian careers).
• dirtyid 4y ago
  How many countries coast guard are "military" like USG with global deployments abroad? Seems like they just share the same issue as USNavy of being over deployed while undermanned.
  • jeffbee 4y ago
    Well, it's difficult to compare any other nation's military to the U.S. because only a few superpowers attempt to project power overseas. But other nations do have armed coast guards, such as Italy. They are pretty comparable in terms of mission, equipment, and armaments.
• ilyt 4y ago
  I now imagine a bunch of servicemen looking at pile of potatoes going "soooo what to do with them?" "I have no idea", while slowly starving. Pay shit, nobody wants to work, "shortage", as usual it seems.
• thinkmcfly 4y ago
  How about the coast guard cuts down on their dumb drug busting work for a while if they are having staffing problems?
• anonAndOn 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure that one of the levels of Dante's hell is working a ship's galley in rough seas. Trying to keep your nausea under control despite the lack of fresh air and not get burned by all of the hot, sloshing liquids is only for those who have very sturdy sea legs and a high tolerance for burns.