5 ms·

Zuckerberg’s empire collapses

48 points by smsm42 4y ago

oraphalous 4y ago
I wonder if at some point a leader has to step away - not necessarily because the strategy is wrong (I have no idea); but because for whatever reason, right or wrong - no one really wants that leader to win. No one in the community likes Zuckerberg. No one wants him to win. Meta - the company - could restore its image and rebuild trust with a new leadership. But not while he is there. Not commenting on whether this is just - whether he has gotten a bad rap or not. Am speaking just to the reality of the perception. If it were me - I would step away, not just for the sake of the company - but for my own as well. I would want to take my wealth and see what else I could do with it - how else might I be able to contribute and give back? Think of both Gates and Jobs when apart from MS and Apple. It's not just a chance for the company to reinvent itself, but the leader as well.
- cmer 4y ago
  This is what happened at Uber, and I think ultimately it was good for the company. I agree with you that Zuck should walk away and the company should bring new leadership that can change the image and culture of the company.
  - johnebgd 4y ago
    It seems likely that he’d use his wealth to build something worse for society if he moves on.
- paxys 4y ago
  Zuckerberg's name is synonymous with Facebook/Meta. People aren't going to start trusting the company even if he steps away. They would have to first change their entire business model and get rid of everything people have a problem with, leaving nothing remaining.
  - skissane 4y ago
    My wife uses Facebook a lot. Coordinating with other parents (mothers mostly) who volunteer at our kid's school. Posting kid pictures for the benefit of grandparents, extended family, and old friends. I think she's pretty representative of who uses Facebook for what nowadays. And the insane crazy moderation drives her up the wall. Just the other day, she posted an announcement to a private group, asking for parents to volunteer at the school. Almost immediately, Facebook removed it, because it contained "nudity". There was absolutely nothing in the picture but text, and a coloured background. It was obvious why their software thought it was "nudity" though – she'd chosen a pinky-peach background, roughly that of pale human skin. Barely a week goes by when she doesn't complain to me about some mindless Facebook moderation inconsistency. If Facebook don't improve, eventually someone else will move in and take over that particular market segment, just like TikTok/Snapchat/etc have already taken over others.
    - jhobag 4y ago
      obviously someone in the group hates your wife and is reporting all her posts for nudity lmao
    - 31337Logic 4y ago
      Tell your wife there are better options. #Signal
  - smsm42 4y ago
    > Zuckerberg's name is synonymous with Facebook/Meta With creating Facebook - maybe. But with trust to Facebook - I know many regular people who uses FB to run all kinds of local groups, and I never heard from one of the "we use FB because we trust Zuckerberg". His name may come up when something is not working or when people get randomly banned for nothing, but never in the context of trust. And, TBH, I can't remember anything Zuckerberg has ever done to make people trust FB more as a company. PS: Oh, and nobody gives a flying about "Meta". The idea that people are itching for bad-graphics boring super-expensive gadget that would allow them to do something they never wanted to do... that's why this company is in trouble.
- whywhywhydude 4y ago
  People don’t really hold on to grudges for so long. I believe the hatred is manufactured by the media- nytimes, foxnews, bbc, cnn pretty much all media hate him. Why wouldn’t they? He took a big piece out of their pie.
  - audiometry 4y ago
    I dislike him even without being fanned by the media. Totally organic dislike for him and his product and his privacy invasion.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
hobbitstan 4y ago
How many tech companies, specifically social media companies, are worth far less than they're touted to? I can easily live without Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, Uber... the list is endless. In fact, I don't use any of the most popular tech products on the market. And investors are starting to realize that overinflated numbers mean little. You have a billion users? How many regularly use your product? 10%? Even Google and Amazon are starting to face reality.
- altdataseller 4y ago
  (Deleted)
  - trentgreene 4y ago
    What do you mean by “use”? I randomly will download insta, scroll, feel cringe and uninstall. Does that count as using?
- twelve40 4y ago
  > I don't use any of the most popular tech products on the market that's a very compelling dataset size of 1. uber, for one, publishes number of its users and rides, and in 2021 it was about 100 million active users who did a few billion rides. For a public company that delivers a physical service, kind of hard to fudge that.
  - smsm42 4y ago
    Uber has an edge here. Decades of regulatory coddling made taxi industry suck so hard that any alternative that sucks less is welcome. I don't care about their business model, but if I need to get point A -> point B, and they can do it with the least inconvenience for me - they get my business. But not all industries have such amounts of accumulated suckage.
  - graftak 4y ago
    Well to be fair a 100 million is exactly 10% of a billion. Still a massive amount of people.
labrador 4y ago
The closing paragraph is inspired: Four years ago, the Facebook founder revealed his admiration for Augustus Caesar. Zuckerberg honeymooned in Rome (his wife joked that Augustus was the third party on their trip), one of his daughters is called August, and his strange haircut is reportedly inspired by Augustus’s style. But as he fiddles in the metaverse, ignoring the fact that the rest of his empire is crumbling, he is beginning to more closely resemble Nero.
- mc32 4y ago
  But the Nero wasn’t in Rome when it burned and fiddles didn’t exist yet… Nero wasn’t all that bad. Ok, he was but are they saying Zuck ain’t bad?
  - europeanguy 4y ago
    No, they're saying he's out of touch.
- avrionov 4y ago
  Speaking about Nero: One of the best names for a software product: "Nero Burning ROM". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero_Burning_ROM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero_Burning_ROM
stevespang 4y ago
ALittleLight 4y ago
I support Zuckerberg 100% and think he's doing the right thing, or at least the right kind of thing, even though I think VR will probably fail. Too many businesses are infected with a kind of parasitic capitalism disease - Warren Buffet is the prime exemplar of this - dominate a niche, build a moat, raise prices, extract value, repeat ad nauseum. Zuckerberg is doing something different. He amassed a gigantic fortune and built a huge company. Now he's trying to innovate rather than simply sit on his hoard and extract value. He's spending his money on real innovation - actual technology. That's good. Plus, he's doing it in complete defiance of media, investors, business types, etc. That takes courage. Good for Zuckerberg. What is the point of getting control over such vast capital if not to try and build the future?
- kadoban 4y ago
  I support Zuck's plan to go down in a VR-fueled blaze too. Maybe Facebook will die and the VR tech will survive elsewhere.
  - Woodi 4y ago
    VR tech is not ready - hardware is too week so peoples (eg. soldiers) getting sick and optics is too pricy.
- viraptor 4y ago
  > Now he's trying to innovate What do you think is the innovation he's trying to do? So far it looks to me like "let's do SecondLife, but with walled gardens, and we'll sell expensive hardware for it". We could argue whether this is useful in some context and whether maybe some specific kind of meetings would actually benefit from VR, but... VRChat exists - if they bought that and did "VRChat for business", they'd be already better off. But actual innovation? I just don't see it.
  - curioussavage 4y ago
    Vr chat? You mean the weird vr social game for furries and anime fans? I think your comment illustrates to me the disconnect. The criticism is hyper focused on that one app. The quest 2 is a fantastic device. And the software for it is actually fantastic. The hardware and software coming out of reality labs is by far the best as a whole. And while I don’t think monolithic apps like horizon worlds are going to be more than a gimmick for a long time. Logging in for the first time on the quest pro and chatting with strangers was something else. Of all the hyped marketing in the presentations I rolled my eyes at the focus on “presence” and feeling like you are there with someone but it already lives up to that in my opinion. It was pretty damn cool. Now that I think about it. Maybe he doesn’t have to give a damn about marketing vr well. Apple will come in and do that work for him soon.
togs 4y ago
Seems hyperbolic. Meta is spending a lot of money on R&D right now (good news for longterm investors); Facebook is still the place for real-life connections (outside of business); VR is immature but will be a big deal once it lowers in cost.
- outericky 4y ago
  maybe i'm getting old, but I don't see VR ever being more than a niche play thing. Humans will continue to want real world interactions, not just put on a headset and live in vr. Facebook, et al, worked because they were highly accessible. Having to put on a headset? No thanks.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    It is a great replacement for the gym (at least for me), but I otherwise I agree.
    - cheeze 4y ago
      I'm interested here, could you elaborate? What are you doing to replace the gym? Workouts led by a virtual instructor? Presumably cardio? Super interesting and I'd love to hear more!
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Mostly FitXR, which VR shadow boxing set to music (with squats mixed in), but I also play some beatsaber to warmup and cool down. The former is designed for fitness, the latter is more of a game like DDR that can get sweaty. There is supernatural and a couple of others, but I mostly stick with FitXR because I’ve found some music and sets to like over the years.
    - MrMan 4y ago
      I agree that FB could capture a fitness market a small fraction of Peloton's for this use. No one ever got fired for mimicking Peloton's business model.
shaburn 4y ago
Great story but way to early to say. He's obviously the best strategist of his cohort and has always played the long game.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
russellbeattie 4y ago
≥ "He saw the digital future once. Can he repeat the trick?" Zuckerberg copied an idea someone else came up with, used shady business tactics to screw his cofounders, was lucky enough to start at Harvard which helped differentiate and legitimize his me-too product, then rode network effects to success (mostly because it was managed by competent adults who were as unscrupulous as he is). He's done nothing else. Instagram, Whatsapp and Oculus were acquisitions, and the company's core product has become simply a disinformation machine which no one under the age of 25 will touch. The only thing Zuckerberg has done is make money. Which is all well and good, but his "vision" is non-existent, as demonstrated by his insane focus on VR when he could be doing so much with the platforms he already has.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  I'm no fan of Zuck or Facebook, but I will say that his success wasn't due merely to network effects, or else he'd never have beaten MySpace. Back in the day, he was basically an insanely good, detail-oriented product manager that kept relentlessly innovating Facebook. Other social networks kept making mistakes, he didn't. Facebook worked and kept getting better, for many years. And it made money because he brought in Sheryl, since he was good at product but not good at business. But that's all he was, just a really really good product manager. So you're right -- nothing visionary about it. And he had no idea what to do when the News Feed began actually affecting elections and civil wars around the world -- totally and utterly out of his depth. And now he wants to be the "visionary"... and is taking down the entire company in the process. It's really a sight to behold. And it's the kind of egotistical indulgence that's only able to happen when investors allow founders to keep control.
dukeofdoom 4y ago
Nobody really wants meta. All the kids are happy they returned to school. Nobody wants to learn virtual welding.
jasondigitized 4y ago
$6 billion in profit on $30 billion in revenue is hardly a collapsing empire.
- smsm42 4y ago
  You know what a man falling from a skyscraper said, when he passed 20th floor? "So far so good!".
augustuspolius 4y ago
In a parallel universe Samsung is spending 10B a year on 3D TV. They are improving software, introducing new stands for their 3D TV sets, acquiring 3D TV production companies. Samsung's CEO Nam is convinced that in the future every household and office in the world will have a wall-sized 3D TV set in every room.

48 points by smsm42 4y ago

I wonder if at some point a leader has to step away - not necessarily because the strategy is wrong (I have no idea); but because for whatever reason, right or wrong - no one really wants that leader to win. No one in the community likes Zuckerberg. No one wants him to win. Meta - the company - could restore its image and rebuild trust with a new leadership. But not while he is there. Not commenting on whether this is just - whether he has gotten a bad rap or not. Am speaking just to the reality of the perception. If it were me - I would step away, not just for the sake of the company - but for my own as well. I would want to take my wealth and see what else I could do with it - how else might I be able to contribute and give back? Think of both Gates and Jobs when apart from MS and Apple. It's not just a chance for the company to reinvent itself, but the leader as well.

cmer 4y ago
This is what happened at Uber, and I think ultimately it was good for the company. I agree with you that Zuck should walk away and the company should bring new leadership that can change the image and culture of the company.
- johnebgd 4y ago
  It seems likely that he’d use his wealth to build something worse for society if he moves on.
paxys 4y ago
Zuckerberg's name is synonymous with Facebook/Meta. People aren't going to start trusting the company even if he steps away. They would have to first change their entire business model and get rid of everything people have a problem with, leaving nothing remaining.
- skissane 4y ago
  My wife uses Facebook a lot. Coordinating with other parents (mothers mostly) who volunteer at our kid's school. Posting kid pictures for the benefit of grandparents, extended family, and old friends. I think she's pretty representative of who uses Facebook for what nowadays. And the insane crazy moderation drives her up the wall. Just the other day, she posted an announcement to a private group, asking for parents to volunteer at the school. Almost immediately, Facebook removed it, because it contained "nudity". There was absolutely nothing in the picture but text, and a coloured background. It was obvious why their software thought it was "nudity" though – she'd chosen a pinky-peach background, roughly that of pale human skin. Barely a week goes by when she doesn't complain to me about some mindless Facebook moderation inconsistency. If Facebook don't improve, eventually someone else will move in and take over that particular market segment, just like TikTok/Snapchat/etc have already taken over others.
  - jhobag 4y ago
    obviously someone in the group hates your wife and is reporting all her posts for nudity lmao
  - 31337Logic 4y ago
    Tell your wife there are better options. #Signal
- smsm42 4y ago
  > Zuckerberg's name is synonymous with Facebook/Meta With creating Facebook - maybe. But with trust to Facebook - I know many regular people who uses FB to run all kinds of local groups, and I never heard from one of the "we use FB because we trust Zuckerberg". His name may come up when something is not working or when people get randomly banned for nothing, but never in the context of trust. And, TBH, I can't remember anything Zuckerberg has ever done to make people trust FB more as a company. PS: Oh, and nobody gives a flying about "Meta". The idea that people are itching for bad-graphics boring super-expensive gadget that would allow them to do something they never wanted to do... that's why this company is in trouble.
whywhywhydude 4y ago
People don’t really hold on to grudges for so long. I believe the hatred is manufactured by the media- nytimes, foxnews, bbc, cnn pretty much all media hate him. Why wouldn’t they? He took a big piece out of their pie.
- audiometry 4y ago
  I dislike him even without being fanned by the media. Totally organic dislike for him and his product and his privacy invasion.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

hobbitstan 4y ago

How many tech companies, specifically social media companies, are worth far less than they're touted to? I can easily live without Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, Uber... the list is endless. In fact, I don't use any of the most popular tech products on the market. And investors are starting to realize that overinflated numbers mean little. You have a billion users? How many regularly use your product? 10%? Even Google and Amazon are starting to face reality.

altdataseller 4y ago
(Deleted)
- trentgreene 4y ago
  What do you mean by “use”? I randomly will download insta, scroll, feel cringe and uninstall. Does that count as using?
twelve40 4y ago
> I don't use any of the most popular tech products on the market that's a very compelling dataset size of 1. uber, for one, publishes number of its users and rides, and in 2021 it was about 100 million active users who did a few billion rides. For a public company that delivers a physical service, kind of hard to fudge that.
- smsm42 4y ago
  Uber has an edge here. Decades of regulatory coddling made taxi industry suck so hard that any alternative that sucks less is welcome. I don't care about their business model, but if I need to get point A -> point B, and they can do it with the least inconvenience for me - they get my business. But not all industries have such amounts of accumulated suckage.
- graftak 4y ago
  Well to be fair a 100 million is exactly 10% of a billion. Still a massive amount of people.

labrador 4y ago

The closing paragraph is inspired: Four years ago, the Facebook founder revealed his admiration for Augustus Caesar. Zuckerberg honeymooned in Rome (his wife joked that Augustus was the third party on their trip), one of his daughters is called August, and his strange haircut is reportedly inspired by Augustus’s style. But as he fiddles in the metaverse, ignoring the fact that the rest of his empire is crumbling, he is beginning to more closely resemble Nero.

mc32 4y ago
But the Nero wasn’t in Rome when it burned and fiddles didn’t exist yet… Nero wasn’t all that bad. Ok, he was but are they saying Zuck ain’t bad?
- europeanguy 4y ago
  No, they're saying he's out of touch.
avrionov 4y ago
Speaking about Nero: One of the best names for a software product: "Nero Burning ROM". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero_Burning_ROM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero_Burning_ROM

stevespang 4y ago

ALittleLight 4y ago

I support Zuckerberg 100% and think he's doing the right thing, or at least the right kind of thing, even though I think VR will probably fail. Too many businesses are infected with a kind of parasitic capitalism disease - Warren Buffet is the prime exemplar of this - dominate a niche, build a moat, raise prices, extract value, repeat ad nauseum. Zuckerberg is doing something different. He amassed a gigantic fortune and built a huge company. Now he's trying to innovate rather than simply sit on his hoard and extract value. He's spending his money on real innovation - actual technology. That's good. Plus, he's doing it in complete defiance of media, investors, business types, etc. That takes courage. Good for Zuckerberg. What is the point of getting control over such vast capital if not to try and build the future?

kadoban 4y ago
I support Zuck's plan to go down in a VR-fueled blaze too. Maybe Facebook will die and the VR tech will survive elsewhere.
- Woodi 4y ago
  VR tech is not ready - hardware is too week so peoples (eg. soldiers) getting sick and optics is too pricy.
viraptor 4y ago
> Now he's trying to innovate What do you think is the innovation he's trying to do? So far it looks to me like "let's do SecondLife, but with walled gardens, and we'll sell expensive hardware for it". We could argue whether this is useful in some context and whether maybe some specific kind of meetings would actually benefit from VR, but... VRChat exists - if they bought that and did "VRChat for business", they'd be already better off. But actual innovation? I just don't see it.
- curioussavage 4y ago
  Vr chat? You mean the weird vr social game for furries and anime fans? I think your comment illustrates to me the disconnect. The criticism is hyper focused on that one app. The quest 2 is a fantastic device. And the software for it is actually fantastic. The hardware and software coming out of reality labs is by far the best as a whole. And while I don’t think monolithic apps like horizon worlds are going to be more than a gimmick for a long time. Logging in for the first time on the quest pro and chatting with strangers was something else. Of all the hyped marketing in the presentations I rolled my eyes at the focus on “presence” and feeling like you are there with someone but it already lives up to that in my opinion. It was pretty damn cool. Now that I think about it. Maybe he doesn’t have to give a damn about marketing vr well. Apple will come in and do that work for him soon.

togs 4y ago

Seems hyperbolic. Meta is spending a lot of money on R&D right now (good news for longterm investors); Facebook is still the place for real-life connections (outside of business); VR is immature but will be a big deal once it lowers in cost.

outericky 4y ago
maybe i'm getting old, but I don't see VR ever being more than a niche play thing. Humans will continue to want real world interactions, not just put on a headset and live in vr. Facebook, et al, worked because they were highly accessible. Having to put on a headset? No thanks.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  It is a great replacement for the gym (at least for me), but I otherwise I agree.
  - cheeze 4y ago
    I'm interested here, could you elaborate? What are you doing to replace the gym? Workouts led by a virtual instructor? Presumably cardio? Super interesting and I'd love to hear more!
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      Mostly FitXR, which VR shadow boxing set to music (with squats mixed in), but I also play some beatsaber to warmup and cool down. The former is designed for fitness, the latter is more of a game like DDR that can get sweaty. There is supernatural and a couple of others, but I mostly stick with FitXR because I’ve found some music and sets to like over the years.
  - MrMan 4y ago
    I agree that FB could capture a fitness market a small fraction of Peloton's for this use. No one ever got fired for mimicking Peloton's business model.

shaburn 4y ago

Great story but way to early to say. He's obviously the best strategist of his cohort and has always played the long game.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

russellbeattie 4y ago

≥ "He saw the digital future once. Can he repeat the trick?" Zuckerberg copied an idea someone else came up with, used shady business tactics to screw his cofounders, was lucky enough to start at Harvard which helped differentiate and legitimize his me-too product, then rode network effects to success (mostly because it was managed by competent adults who were as unscrupulous as he is). He's done nothing else. Instagram, Whatsapp and Oculus were acquisitions, and the company's core product has become simply a disinformation machine which no one under the age of 25 will touch. The only thing Zuckerberg has done is make money. Which is all well and good, but his "vision" is non-existent, as demonstrated by his insane focus on VR when he could be doing so much with the platforms he already has.

crazygringo 4y ago
I'm no fan of Zuck or Facebook, but I will say that his success wasn't due merely to network effects, or else he'd never have beaten MySpace. Back in the day, he was basically an insanely good, detail-oriented product manager that kept relentlessly innovating Facebook. Other social networks kept making mistakes, he didn't. Facebook worked and kept getting better, for many years. And it made money because he brought in Sheryl, since he was good at product but not good at business. But that's all he was, just a really really good product manager. So you're right -- nothing visionary about it. And he had no idea what to do when the News Feed began actually affecting elections and civil wars around the world -- totally and utterly out of his depth. And now he wants to be the "visionary"... and is taking down the entire company in the process. It's really a sight to behold. And it's the kind of egotistical indulgence that's only able to happen when investors allow founders to keep control.

dukeofdoom 4y ago

Nobody really wants meta. All the kids are happy they returned to school. Nobody wants to learn virtual welding.

jasondigitized 4y ago

$6 billion in profit on $30 billion in revenue is hardly a collapsing empire.

smsm42 4y ago
You know what a man falling from a skyscraper said, when he passed 20th floor? "So far so good!".

augustuspolius 4y ago

In a parallel universe Samsung is spending 10B a year on 3D TV. They are improving software, introducing new stands for their 3D TV sets, acquiring 3D TV production companies. Samsung's CEO Nam is convinced that in the future every household and office in the world will have a wall-sized 3D TV set in every room.