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I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacri

I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myself until the kids are down at 7.30, and I'm utterly wasted. Weekends are just chaos, yeah we can divide and conquer but that only goes so far. As for enjoying hanging around with kids.... I don't know what age that starts, but I'm 5 years and counting. Honestly I'm exhausted, and I'm not gonna lie, I have some regret about having kids when I see the child free people around me, and how they're spending their 30s.

tacoman 4y ago
Yes, spending time with little kids can be really boring, be present when it counts though. This period of life doesn't last forever so take care of your health and maintain your important relationships with whatever energy you can muster. Every time I look at pictures of my kids when they were younger I feel a tinge of regret for not being more in the moment.
- warner25 4y ago
  I feel the same as WheatMillington most of the time, but also feel the same as you when I look at pictures of my kids from the past few years. It's so conflicting.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - klipt 4y ago
    "The days are long, but the years are short"
    - spockz 4y ago
      100% this. Be in the moment. Enjoy. Play. You can rest later. (When the kids are bigger and can do chores themselves. ;-))
- Aeolun 4y ago
  > I feel a tinge of regret for not being more in the moment. That’s not really something you control. In that moment you probably just wanted to escape for 5 minutes of blessed peace.
  - ip26 4y ago
    The weird part is the lag. You want to escape for 5 minutes. But you only want that now because you couldn't escape for years before. If you stopped to think about it, maybe you don't really want those five minutes. If only you stop and really think.
    - nostrademons 4y ago
      That requires stopping to think for five minutes, which you didn't have in the moment.
- ojl 4y ago
  I feel the same, but also got lucky that my oldest son and I both like climbing. So even if he, as a typical teenager, wants to spend time with friends or simply wants to be left alone in his room we spend 2-3 evenings per week together at the climbing gym.
notch656a 4y ago
I feel it. Whether the statistics are true or not, the idea of being 75% done with the time by 12 sounds extremely liberating. I put in the time and effort for the sake of the children, but the truth is I want them independent as soon as possible. The older they get and the less they need (and the less time I have to spend with them), the more joy I get out of life. The first year was a black hole of lots of work which obviously the child has no capacity to really express gratefulness for (not that it is owed). There's nothing that can really prepare you to know what parenthood will be like with you're particular children, and by the time you know what it's like to regret it it's too late -- at the very least you're in it for child support. I recommend anyone who enjoys their life as it as and don't see it as a "must have" to fulfill their sense of purpose to strongly STRONGLY consider before they have kids.
treeman79 4y ago
I gave up all my hobbies. 1-8 was brutal with 2 of em. A few years later I’m picking them back up again.
andyferris 4y ago
Hang in there another couple of years. Now my youngest is 7 I find life a lot more liberating then when they were under 6. And its fun doing "older" activities with the kids. But yeah it's hard for more than "the first few months/years"! > when I see the child free people around me, and how they're spending their 30s On the flip side, I wonder if you might enjoy your 70's and 80's a lot more with kids (and possibly grandkids).
- hackly 4y ago
  With the way things are going, they might be living with me in a basement and sharing my old age security for sustenance.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    Then you won’t need to worry about 75% of your time with them being before they are 12 ;)
arcticfox 4y ago
On the other hand, I wasn't sure if I wanted kids, and the borderline decision to go ahead was the best decision of my life. YMMV.
Aeolun 4y ago
> until the kids are down at 7.30 Yours sleep at 7:30?! How do you not consider that to be literally oceans of free time? That said, yeah, you give up the whole evenings spent trying to solve some problem, but honestly, I don’t think that, on my deathbed, I’ll ever regret that I didn’t get to solve problem x 30 years ago. What I’m almost positive I’ll look back on very fondly though is every evening spent going in the bath with my kid, then taking him to bed, watching some youtube and reading books. My biggest regret is that (barring a miracle) I won’t have any more than one (for his sake as much as mine).
- muzani 4y ago
  Having 3 kids, I put them to sleep by 9.30. There's a loop that they can't fall asleep when they're tired and they're tired because they don't get enough sleep, so we even make sure they have excess sleep if possible. Otherwise they get cranky and it's a bad day/week/month for everyone. I realise I could just wake up earlier to do stuff, and if I wake up early, I'm also less likely to waste it on pointless things.
  - flurdy 4y ago
    Ditto, mine are not all down until 9.30, or worse. Then I am too knackered and shell-shocked to actually get anything done, yet wont actually do the sensible thing and go to bed early as too guilty with the chores still to do...
- spockz 4y ago
  The kids being down at 730/19:30 doesn’t mean everything is done: Laundry, cleaning after dinner, tidying up, ordering groceries/making shopping lists, actually doing groceries, fixing something in/at house/car/garden, taking out trash(diapers), paper/plastic, researching which child seat to buy when they get bigger, parent/teacher sessions. This when you are lucky. Maybe even preparation for work or study is needed still. Etcetera. Just to point out that free time and therefore a moment for yourself doesn’t automatically start the moment kids are at bed.
  - 4y ago
maxsilver 4y ago
My partner and I have 5 kids under 7yrs old -- four of whom are adopted and two of whom are struggling with severe developmental delays (and likely autism, still waiting on formal diagnosis). When kids get older, they get a lot more "fun" and a lot less immediate work. I can take my eldest two out pretty much anywhere without a ton of effort, they are fun to hang out with, they can be trusted to be kind and respectful in adult spaces, and they'll invite me into kids spaces, etc. But also, anything can happen. Anything can happen. Your kids could be born with lifelong conditions or issues. They could be healthy at young ages, but develop special conditions as they hit early childhood or late adolescence. They could struggle with lifestyle issues (violence, drugs, alcohol, crime, etc). You may just end up not liking them very much (you may end up wishing they were more like you, when they aren't), they may have hobbies that differ from you, they may choose careers you'd prefer not, they may choose religious views you disagree with, they may end up being LGBTQIA+ even if you aren't, and so on. We have one child who is at high risk of never developing cognitively enough to safely live on their own as an adult -- anything can happen. Having a child is a literal forever commitment -- even more so than any marriage is -- to love and care for a person that might not even exist yet, no matter who they end up being. Be absolutely ready to make a literal lifetime commitment to love and care for this child as a fellow human, before deciding to have one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with opting out of all of that, and spending your 20's, 30's or lifetime doing something else -- having a child is a huge responsibility, and not something anyone should ever get pressured into, or jump into capriciously.
- shanewwarren 4y ago
  I've heard stories of how difficult the process of adopting kids can be. So, kudos to you, that sounds like a lot to manage. Regarding opting out, I get it, but I don't agree personally. Not having kids, can enable some pretty great lifestyles. But I do feel like you don't get a chance to understand what being a parent is all about. No amount of being a great aunt / uncle / whatever, gives you that feeling of needing to nurture or protect your child. It forces you to change, maintain a good relationship w/ your partner, be a good role model, etc. If I was do it again, I'd try to do it earlier.
  - 4y ago
addingadimensio 4y ago
This is short sided the first five years are tough the next are great and the following are even better
ekanes 4y ago
I don’t know that the GP comment disagrees - I think you’re just actually still in the hardest phase. imho it gets much better and more interesting soon! And then they’re teens you can have amazing conversations with them. And while we aren’t there yet, I gather from everyone that being a grandparent is bliss. Sending you positive vibes!
smesla 4y ago
- andsoitis 4y ago
  > norm really should be to not reproduce Humans, just like other organisms, can't help themselves. More seriously, we are expressions of replicating organic matter, the vessels for this process to continue to unfold. Humans are a phase in a long progression of evolution by natural selection. One day, just like long ago, "we" will no longer be around. And that's OK.
  - smesla 4y ago
    I...beg to differ.
    - hattar 4y ago
      This might be one of those MiB things: > A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Many individuals can help themselves, but on the whole the species cannot.
a_e_k 4y ago
I have four kids. YMMV, but I've found with mine that six years old seems to be the magic threshold. Developmentally, it seems like at that age a switch suddenly turns on and they start really showing distinct interests, talking fluently, thinking more abstractly, making solid friendships with a few peers, and wanting a bit more independence. I find the 6yo age to be a blast.
- baryphonic 4y ago
  I'd echo this. My youngest is 5, and though we went through the terrible 2s through the f**ing 4s, it seems we've turned a corner at age 5. There's this sweet little kid who can start to control his emotions and frequently makes us laugh. In place of fits and tantrums we had for basically the past three years, we have someone who can take a breather and accept "no" for an answer. The best part is all of the hugs, the I-love-you-Daddy-s, the endless curiosity (tonight's: "if you use Apple Pay, are they taking [cash] dollars out of your phone?") and a newfound recognition that other people with their own dignity and needs exist. It is still a lot of work, but I love spending time with my kids and seeing them learn and grow into civilized people.
  - TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
    Read “Setting Limits” by Robert Mackenzie if you still have problems with “no” and tantrums. I’ve read 10 parenting books and this is hands-down the best.
  - dotnet00 4y ago
    I agree, although I'm not a parent, I babysat my niece a lot throughout. She's turning 6 in a few weeks and it's pretty great how much more "interactive" she can be now. When they're much younger you constantly have to fret over them, but now she's learning to write, asks fun questions and overall the "spark" of being her own person is really visible. While I used to enjoy babysitting earlier too, back then I still used to be glad to be done so I could rest and catch up on some hobbies while nowadays I usually feel pretty guilty having to leave. On the other hand the experience from my niece and now my nephew does make me wonder if I really want kids at all given the effort it takes to raise them to the point where they start to learn to be independent. I was exhausted dealing with them for just a few days in a row, I can't imagine how I'd handle it for several years.
treespace8 4y ago
I felt exactly the same way. Very, very hard until the kids are in school full time. But still hard until they are teenagers. I'm finding the teenage years to be much more pleasant. Getting some payback for all the time invested. I know it's still a long way away for you.
tjr225 4y ago
dionidium 4y ago
If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making plans to go camping with three different groups of friends three weekends in a row and realizing at the end of it that all three weekends were exactly the same. Nothing new happens. You're not missing anything if you just stay home. Happiness is extremely overrated. I had a lot of laughs in my 30s, but my life was a disaster. Now I'm tired and busy and I don't go out and do "fun" stuff very often, but I'm much more satisfied. My biggest regret is that I waited so long to start my life. Brunch isn't life.
- Panzer04 4y ago
  This feels a lot like a more extreme version of what I'm doing now (especially the camping thing), and I'm a lot younger.. Thanks for the perspective.
  - dalyons 4y ago
    Just don’t take it as a rule though - I had a kid late also and I don’t regret the camping, brunches, career and travel at all. Some are memories I’ll keep forever and all those experiences make me feel like I’ve had a fullish life already, which can make it easier to deal with the no-life of having kids :)
    - dionidium 4y ago
      For sure. Maybe these anecdotes are useful; maybe not. I don't know. Everybody has to figure it out on their own, in the end.
    - nmcfarl 4y ago
      There’s 1000 places in this conversation to say this, but I thought here would work. I too had a kid late and do not regret the camping, but wanted to say the no-life is time limited^, or can be if you are lucky. My kid is now 9, and while a fancy brunch is beyond him, he can do a sit down sushi dinner. We've done a couple of international trips with him, and we've settled into a friend group with similar interests so we are constantly doing camping, backcountry backpacking, and in the winter skiing - all with him and his friends. It is pretty good, and certainly not a no-life. --- ^ And we knew what we wanted, so even though many of the early trips where miserable, the kid can say he’s been backpacking and xc-skiing every year of his life.
fn1 4y ago
> Weekends are just chaos... It is normal that kids take up all your time, but "just chaos" doesn't sound right. Without knowing your situation, maybe this helps: As you probably know first there was authoritarian parenting (rule the kids), then permissive parenting (let them do whatever they want), both of which create problems for the children. The parenting-style agreed upon today by psychologists is "authoritative parenting", which basically means telling the kids what you want them to do, but giving them a lenient timeframe and freedom to chose how and when they do it. It raises their self-esteem and encourages them to work together with you. https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/types-of-parenting#authoritative https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/types-of-parenti...
riffraff 4y ago
> As for enjoying hanging around with kids.... I don't know what age that starts, but I'm 5 years and counting. My kids are 6 and 8 and I have enjoyed spending time with them since they were little. I do get tired and want to be alone after a while tho. I think we should just accept the fact that some people enjoy children and some don't. It makes sense, some people like ballet some outdoor activities some videogames, there's no reason to expect kids would be different.
lhball 4y ago
> I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more Exactly this. I have 2 under six, and outside the odd night were my wife bathes both kids, from 6am to 9pm I’m either working or hanging out with my kids. Maybe 2-3 times a month I’ll get 4 hours to myself to go watch a baseball/hockey game. At the end of the day though, I look back and I’m grateful. I tell myself “where did my hobbies go” but deep down I know I probably would have spent that time watching a 3 hour super smash brothers documentary or re-reading LOTR or something stupid like that. Kids have made me more focused. Their unconditional needs force me to weed out the time wasting, unimportant things in my life. I honestly sometimes wonder how it ever felt like I was busy before.
- mingusrude 4y ago
  When we had kids I realized that I had to get new hobbies because I wouldn't be able to keep doing the old ones. I pretty much decided that cooking and looking after house plants were going to be be my new hobbies since I knew that I would actually have time for it because of necessity (well maybe not the plants). It worked out OK, I still enjoy cooking a lot.
Xixi 4y ago
Parent wrote "The sleepless nights and diaper changes are a mere blip on the scale of a lifetime with kids." You still pretty much in the middle of that blip. It is exhausting. When your kids are getting closer to 10, you will have a very different perspective. And you will have as much time as you want to enjoy hobbies, going out, etc. Source: I have a 12yo at home.
radicalbyte 4y ago
> haven't had any time for myself until the kids are down at 7.30 I have three kids (3, 6, 9) and we don't get to sit down without kids until around 22:00 on average. Sometimes it's quiet at 20:00 (the youngest two asleep), sometimes at 00:30. We have no life outside of work and kids. It should eventually get better though, as soon as the youngest two start being able to sleep themselves.
ssss11 4y ago
I’m kind of in the same boat as you, but I don’t think it’ll last forever. We’ll get some personal time back, but in the meantime hang in there.
TomK32 4y ago
Sounds like you are the breadwinner, have you thought about the financial feasibility of taking an afternoon off, at least until the kids are at school and a lot more independent? One hobby I picked up when my kid was about three was crochet (men can do it just fine), so we spent afternoons at the playground, she playing with other children while I did crochet e.g. a hobby horse.
ckdarby 4y ago
Have you had your blood checked in the last year? You could very well have a vitamin D deficiency which will explain the exhaustion. It's hard to have empathy, because my weeks are 70-80 hours every week and I honestly still feel like I have plenty of down time. In terms of time you have the time based on your profile. Plenty of time spent on HN. You're also gaining the equivalent of work+commute every Saturday & Sunday.
flurdy 4y ago
>> 3) You actually like hanging out with your own kids. > I don't know what age that starts, but I'm 5 years and counting. I hope it kicks in soon. I love spending time with my kids. They are 8 & 11 now. Sure they can be annoying and as they get older more viscous arguing... But still I look forward to go for walks with them or have a little minecraft session together, or just some simple lego. Or just fixing/building things together around the house, inside or out. Sometimes not or just for short periods. But I look forward to the next time. I have taken a lot of time off on purpose to spend as much time with them as possible whilst they are young. And working from home before we all had to. Still they get super excited to spend time with me on anything. But my oldest is now 11 and I can feel she soon will prefer hanging out with her friends and not her embarrassing dad. But I agree, weekdays when I am working full time it is still knackering. I dream of them all being in bed at 7.30. And spending time with and looking after my kids means I have no time for friends or most of my hobbies at weekends. Though as the older one may soon want to spend less time with her dad that also means she require less of my supervision as she goes to clubs and sports after school, and organises her time herself more independently. So I may soon have time for hobbies again. Mid-life crisis here I come.
nickd2001 4y ago
Are you exhausted from the kids, or because your job exhausts you too much to have energy left for them? In which case change jobs? Sure kids are tiring, temperamental, they go completely hyper, argue incessantly about stuff, don't get ready to go out when asked, don't go to sleep then are tired and fractious next day, change their mind about what they want to do when you made a big effort for them, fight with each other (as well as being very nice and caring to each other next minute) etc etc. But they're delightful, and funny, and super companions at the same time. As for hobbies, as others have said, finding hobbies you can do with your kids is good. The great outdoors and music making can be shared at a young age, if they're into that. I found even reading them stories, as they get older the books get more interesting, many kids books are actually fascinating for adults.
icare_1er 4y ago
Kind of makes me anxious about having kids but I have also heard, on the other end, senior people expressing how gloomy it feels to not have kids. And unlike the tiredness of having kids, that anxiety only grows forever till the day you die and all you leave behind is a nice car.
- p2detar 4y ago
  My algorithmic approach has always been: 1. You’re 100% sure you don’t want kids? Then don’t. 2. In all other cases, have a child. Even when in doubt. Years will pass and doubt may perish, but with it also the ability to have children.
  - texasbigdata 4y ago
    This seems like the most inhumane way to make the decision discussed, even if you're not necessarily wrong for taking this approach. I can't imagine what it'd be like being a small child in a household where your parents "had doubt" and turns out they didn't really want you after all. You can't fake it well enough for 18 years where they wouldn't notice. Just sad imho
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
cliftonk 4y ago
I have two kids under two. It's tough, but i dont personally know any parents that don't have a ton of fun with their kids. I love spending time with my 2 year-old. We have tons of fun together (like many 2 year olds, outside activities are a must). I'd rather be with him than any of my friends or other family and wouldn't trade it for the world.
danielrpa 4y ago
The best phase is about to begin, and the worst of child raising is behind you. It will never be easy, but IMHO older kids are a lot more fun, clever and interactive.
ybalkind 4y ago
My experience of having kids is very similar to yours. But I will say that I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel. My kids are now 8 and 4, no more diapers or waking up at night. My wife and I are getting better at managing parenting responsibilities and lifts. My life is getting more balanced again. And I'm feeling a shift closer to what the comment above yours describes, although I'm not entirely there yet. To be fair though we have 4 grandparents to help plus a nannie so not representative of most people.
sgt101 4y ago
The big change for me was year 6.. so hang in there friend. When they are 6 they become much more self contained, they don't need constant entertaining. They will leave you alone, without being asked, for hours at a time to do what they want to. You have 2 so you will have a bit of a longer spell, but after 6 you enter into the high summer of their childhood. They are small enough not to have any real problems (apart from, god forbid, medical ones) but they are big enough to give you time and space to breath. I hear your pain. But it will be worth it, and it will improve.
trident5000 4y ago
Dont have kids if you're poor.
ttcbj 4y ago
It is exhausting. My kids are 9 and 11. It’s different, but still all consuming. Still, I think it is very hard for anyone to predict what some one else’s experience will be having kids. It depends on the kids temperament, yours, your spouses, how your relationship works, What the expectations are in your community, and so much more. The older I get, especially now that I see my parents really aging, the more I see life is just complicated. Kids or not, you have to find happiness where you can, and accept that sometimes things are imperfect.
the_other 4y ago
> I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. That's one perspective. I wasn't ready for kids but had one anyway. It's worked out fairly well. My kid rocks and we have a lot of fun. > have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myself until the kids are down at 7.30, and I'm utterly wasted. I have one and I started to get back into hobbies around their age 7. So I would imagine having two slows that process down a bit. I'm pretty sure you'll get some time back, but you might need to stick it out a couple more years. If you can, tweak your hobbies to include them a bit (obviously it depends on the hobby) - mine really liked synths for a couple of years: that was great fun :-D. Something that hit me hard recently was that when I do my hobbies & socialising, I do them away from my family. This now looks like a mistake. I think I should have worked harder to have kid-compatible friends and hobbies over the last couple of years. I'm aiming to do more more activity stuff (camping, surfing etc) with mine over the next couple of years. Deeper into their teens, they wont want to hang out with me much so I need to get it done now. > As for enjoying hanging around with kids It's really hard. You've got to get into undirected play yourself. I didn't do this enough.
_jss 4y ago
I didn't genuinely enjoy parenting until my kids were all above 6, and it was gradual. My kids are 16 and 14 now, and at the start of their summer break I left a job I really liked to spend as much time as I could with them. Their problems were more thought provoking and time intensive, navigating tough tradeoffs. I love helping them through these moments, teaching critical thinking, and we still have fun doing things. When they were younger, I tried to find some longer focal point and figure out what my role and goals were as a parent. I found that, and it helped relieve some of the repetitive stress of parenting young kids. I don't know the source for the "75% of the time we spent with our kids happens before age 12" but I hope it isn't true. Kids are inexperienced people, and experience cultivates interesting people. I also believe an hour spent with a glassy eyed baby barely counts compared to a thoughtful, focused 15 minute discussion with a teenager. I hope you find your groove. It took me a while.
stormdennis 4y ago
To cap it all you'll feel guilty for feeling this way in later years when they're gone.
mherdeg 4y ago
Do you think your own parents felt this way?
lee 4y ago
My kids are older now (10 and 13) and I really enjoy these years than when they were younger whereas my wife really enjoyed them more in the earlier years. That period of enjoyment really varies between individuals, and I think in the aggregate men tend to enjoy hanging out with older kids compared to women. There was also a moment when I shifted my own personal attitude towards spending time with them that made it more enjoyable. Instead of seeing time with them as a time-suck where I could be doing something else, I saw it as fleeting moments that I could never get back when they're older. I became more grateful for the time I had with them.
Shocka1 4y ago
I would agree mostly, but this comment a little on the extreme side IMO. You sound miserable. I can relate as this is exactly how I felt the first 6 months of the first child we had - they are between 4 and 7 now. I was and still am a pretty selfish person with lots of hobbies, but most of them had to go to the backburner for the time being. Once I was able to get over myself things started going a lot smoother. Of course there are times I wish I could be mountain biking, fishing, etc., instead of one of the many tasks that involve children, but I find myself looking forward to spending time with them these days. They are getting to the age where I'm starting to take them with me to enjoy the things I love as well. I imagine this will get higher in frequency as they get older. From one selfish person to another, hang in there.
imetatroll 4y ago
Life was pretty vapid in a deeper sense until I had children so I have to disagree with you. It is a challenge but is the only challenge that I have experienced in my life that truly feels worthwhile.
joshuahedlund 4y ago
> I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more I remember feeling like this when I had 2 kids under 6. Now they are both slightly past 6 and I feel everything the parent comment said about how brief that time was - they are in school most of the day, when they are home they spend at least some time playing Legos, watching shows, playing Minecraft, reading books. I have more time for hobbies than I've had in years. They are even starting to be old enough to accompany me on some of my hobbies. The reversal is so stark it's hard for me to comprehend how long it felt at the time and how short it looks now.

tacoman 4y ago

Yes, spending time with little kids can be really boring, be present when it counts though. This period of life doesn't last forever so take care of your health and maintain your important relationships with whatever energy you can muster. Every time I look at pictures of my kids when they were younger I feel a tinge of regret for not being more in the moment.

warner25 4y ago
I feel the same as WheatMillington most of the time, but also feel the same as you when I look at pictures of my kids from the past few years. It's so conflicting.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- klipt 4y ago
  "The days are long, but the years are short"
  - spockz 4y ago
    100% this. Be in the moment. Enjoy. Play. You can rest later. (When the kids are bigger and can do chores themselves. ;-))
Aeolun 4y ago
> I feel a tinge of regret for not being more in the moment. That’s not really something you control. In that moment you probably just wanted to escape for 5 minutes of blessed peace.
- ip26 4y ago
  The weird part is the lag. You want to escape for 5 minutes. But you only want that now because you couldn't escape for years before. If you stopped to think about it, maybe you don't really want those five minutes. If only you stop and really think.
  - nostrademons 4y ago
    That requires stopping to think for five minutes, which you didn't have in the moment.
ojl 4y ago
I feel the same, but also got lucky that my oldest son and I both like climbing. So even if he, as a typical teenager, wants to spend time with friends or simply wants to be left alone in his room we spend 2-3 evenings per week together at the climbing gym.

notch656a 4y ago

I feel it. Whether the statistics are true or not, the idea of being 75% done with the time by 12 sounds extremely liberating. I put in the time and effort for the sake of the children, but the truth is I want them independent as soon as possible. The older they get and the less they need (and the less time I have to spend with them), the more joy I get out of life. The first year was a black hole of lots of work which obviously the child has no capacity to really express gratefulness for (not that it is owed). There's nothing that can really prepare you to know what parenthood will be like with you're particular children, and by the time you know what it's like to regret it it's too late -- at the very least you're in it for child support. I recommend anyone who enjoys their life as it as and don't see it as a "must have" to fulfill their sense of purpose to strongly STRONGLY consider before they have kids.

treeman79 4y ago

I gave up all my hobbies. 1-8 was brutal with 2 of em. A few years later I’m picking them back up again.

andyferris 4y ago

Hang in there another couple of years. Now my youngest is 7 I find life a lot more liberating then when they were under 6. And its fun doing "older" activities with the kids. But yeah it's hard for more than "the first few months/years"! > when I see the child free people around me, and how they're spending their 30s On the flip side, I wonder if you might enjoy your 70's and 80's a lot more with kids (and possibly grandkids).

hackly 4y ago
With the way things are going, they might be living with me in a basement and sharing my old age security for sustenance.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  Then you won’t need to worry about 75% of your time with them being before they are 12 ;)

arcticfox 4y ago

On the other hand, I wasn't sure if I wanted kids, and the borderline decision to go ahead was the best decision of my life. YMMV.

Aeolun 4y ago

> until the kids are down at 7.30 Yours sleep at 7:30?! How do you not consider that to be literally oceans of free time? That said, yeah, you give up the whole evenings spent trying to solve some problem, but honestly, I don’t think that, on my deathbed, I’ll ever regret that I didn’t get to solve problem x 30 years ago. What I’m almost positive I’ll look back on very fondly though is every evening spent going in the bath with my kid, then taking him to bed, watching some youtube and reading books. My biggest regret is that (barring a miracle) I won’t have any more than one (for his sake as much as mine).

muzani 4y ago
Having 3 kids, I put them to sleep by 9.30. There's a loop that they can't fall asleep when they're tired and they're tired because they don't get enough sleep, so we even make sure they have excess sleep if possible. Otherwise they get cranky and it's a bad day/week/month for everyone. I realise I could just wake up earlier to do stuff, and if I wake up early, I'm also less likely to waste it on pointless things.
- flurdy 4y ago
  Ditto, mine are not all down until 9.30, or worse. Then I am too knackered and shell-shocked to actually get anything done, yet wont actually do the sensible thing and go to bed early as too guilty with the chores still to do...
spockz 4y ago
The kids being down at 730/19:30 doesn’t mean everything is done: Laundry, cleaning after dinner, tidying up, ordering groceries/making shopping lists, actually doing groceries, fixing something in/at house/car/garden, taking out trash(diapers), paper/plastic, researching which child seat to buy when they get bigger, parent/teacher sessions. This when you are lucky. Maybe even preparation for work or study is needed still. Etcetera. Just to point out that free time and therefore a moment for yourself doesn’t automatically start the moment kids are at bed.
- 4y ago

maxsilver 4y ago

My partner and I have 5 kids under 7yrs old -- four of whom are adopted and two of whom are struggling with severe developmental delays (and likely autism, still waiting on formal diagnosis). When kids get older, they get a lot more "fun" and a lot less immediate work. I can take my eldest two out pretty much anywhere without a ton of effort, they are fun to hang out with, they can be trusted to be kind and respectful in adult spaces, and they'll invite me into kids spaces, etc. But also, anything can happen. Anything can happen. Your kids could be born with lifelong conditions or issues. They could be healthy at young ages, but develop special conditions as they hit early childhood or late adolescence. They could struggle with lifestyle issues (violence, drugs, alcohol, crime, etc). You may just end up not liking them very much (you may end up wishing they were more like you, when they aren't), they may have hobbies that differ from you, they may choose careers you'd prefer not, they may choose religious views you disagree with, they may end up being LGBTQIA+ even if you aren't, and so on. We have one child who is at high risk of never developing cognitively enough to safely live on their own as an adult -- anything can happen. Having a child is a literal forever commitment -- even more so than any marriage is -- to love and care for a person that might not even exist yet, no matter who they end up being. Be absolutely ready to make a literal lifetime commitment to love and care for this child as a fellow human, before deciding to have one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with opting out of all of that, and spending your 20's, 30's or lifetime doing something else -- having a child is a huge responsibility, and not something anyone should ever get pressured into, or jump into capriciously.

shanewwarren 4y ago
I've heard stories of how difficult the process of adopting kids can be. So, kudos to you, that sounds like a lot to manage. Regarding opting out, I get it, but I don't agree personally. Not having kids, can enable some pretty great lifestyles. But I do feel like you don't get a chance to understand what being a parent is all about. No amount of being a great aunt / uncle / whatever, gives you that feeling of needing to nurture or protect your child. It forces you to change, maintain a good relationship w/ your partner, be a good role model, etc. If I was do it again, I'd try to do it earlier.
- 4y ago

addingadimensio 4y ago

This is short sided the first five years are tough the next are great and the following are even better

ekanes 4y ago

I don’t know that the GP comment disagrees - I think you’re just actually still in the hardest phase. imho it gets much better and more interesting soon! And then they’re teens you can have amazing conversations with them. And while we aren’t there yet, I gather from everyone that being a grandparent is bliss. Sending you positive vibes!

smesla 4y ago

andsoitis 4y ago
> norm really should be to not reproduce Humans, just like other organisms, can't help themselves. More seriously, we are expressions of replicating organic matter, the vessels for this process to continue to unfold. Humans are a phase in a long progression of evolution by natural selection. One day, just like long ago, "we" will no longer be around. And that's OK.
- smesla 4y ago
  I...beg to differ.
  - hattar 4y ago
    This might be one of those MiB things: > A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Many individuals can help themselves, but on the whole the species cannot.

a_e_k 4y ago

I have four kids. YMMV, but I've found with mine that six years old seems to be the magic threshold. Developmentally, it seems like at that age a switch suddenly turns on and they start really showing distinct interests, talking fluently, thinking more abstractly, making solid friendships with a few peers, and wanting a bit more independence. I find the 6yo age to be a blast.

baryphonic 4y ago
I'd echo this. My youngest is 5, and though we went through the terrible 2s through the f**ing 4s, it seems we've turned a corner at age 5. There's this sweet little kid who can start to control his emotions and frequently makes us laugh. In place of fits and tantrums we had for basically the past three years, we have someone who can take a breather and accept "no" for an answer. The best part is all of the hugs, the I-love-you-Daddy-s, the endless curiosity (tonight's: "if you use Apple Pay, are they taking [cash] dollars out of your phone?") and a newfound recognition that other people with their own dignity and needs exist. It is still a lot of work, but I love spending time with my kids and seeing them learn and grow into civilized people.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  Read “Setting Limits” by Robert Mackenzie if you still have problems with “no” and tantrums. I’ve read 10 parenting books and this is hands-down the best.
- dotnet00 4y ago
  I agree, although I'm not a parent, I babysat my niece a lot throughout. She's turning 6 in a few weeks and it's pretty great how much more "interactive" she can be now. When they're much younger you constantly have to fret over them, but now she's learning to write, asks fun questions and overall the "spark" of being her own person is really visible. While I used to enjoy babysitting earlier too, back then I still used to be glad to be done so I could rest and catch up on some hobbies while nowadays I usually feel pretty guilty having to leave. On the other hand the experience from my niece and now my nephew does make me wonder if I really want kids at all given the effort it takes to raise them to the point where they start to learn to be independent. I was exhausted dealing with them for just a few days in a row, I can't imagine how I'd handle it for several years.

treespace8 4y ago

I felt exactly the same way. Very, very hard until the kids are in school full time. But still hard until they are teenagers. I'm finding the teenage years to be much more pleasant. Getting some payback for all the time invested. I know it's still a long way away for you.

tjr225 4y ago

dionidium 4y ago

If it makes you feel any better I delayed having kids and spent my 30s dating and hanging out and going to bars -- and it was terrible. I was never more depressed. I got tired of dating. I got tired of bars. I was lonely. My life had no meaning or direction. I had a nice career and could go anywhere and do anything I wanted, but it turns out none of that made me even a little bit happy. I remember one summer making plans to go camping with three different groups of friends three weekends in a row and realizing at the end of it that all three weekends were exactly the same. Nothing new happens. You're not missing anything if you just stay home. Happiness is extremely overrated. I had a lot of laughs in my 30s, but my life was a disaster. Now I'm tired and busy and I don't go out and do "fun" stuff very often, but I'm much more satisfied. My biggest regret is that I waited so long to start my life. Brunch isn't life.

Panzer04 4y ago
This feels a lot like a more extreme version of what I'm doing now (especially the camping thing), and I'm a lot younger.. Thanks for the perspective.
- dalyons 4y ago
  Just don’t take it as a rule though - I had a kid late also and I don’t regret the camping, brunches, career and travel at all. Some are memories I’ll keep forever and all those experiences make me feel like I’ve had a fullish life already, which can make it easier to deal with the no-life of having kids :)
  - dionidium 4y ago
    For sure. Maybe these anecdotes are useful; maybe not. I don't know. Everybody has to figure it out on their own, in the end.
  - nmcfarl 4y ago
    There’s 1000 places in this conversation to say this, but I thought here would work. I too had a kid late and do not regret the camping, but wanted to say the no-life is time limited^, or can be if you are lucky. My kid is now 9, and while a fancy brunch is beyond him, he can do a sit down sushi dinner. We've done a couple of international trips with him, and we've settled into a friend group with similar interests so we are constantly doing camping, backcountry backpacking, and in the winter skiing - all with him and his friends. It is pretty good, and certainly not a no-life. --- ^ And we knew what we wanted, so even though many of the early trips where miserable, the kid can say he’s been backpacking and xc-skiing every year of his life.

fn1 4y ago

> Weekends are just chaos... It is normal that kids take up all your time, but "just chaos" doesn't sound right. Without knowing your situation, maybe this helps: As you probably know first there was authoritarian parenting (rule the kids), then permissive parenting (let them do whatever they want), both of which create problems for the children. The parenting-style agreed upon today by psychologists is "authoritative parenting", which basically means telling the kids what you want them to do, but giving them a lenient timeframe and freedom to chose how and when they do it. It raises their self-esteem and encourages them to work together with you. https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/types-of-parenting#authoritative https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/types-of-parenti...

riffraff 4y ago

> As for enjoying hanging around with kids.... I don't know what age that starts, but I'm 5 years and counting. My kids are 6 and 8 and I have enjoyed spending time with them since they were little. I do get tired and want to be alone after a while tho. I think we should just accept the fact that some people enjoy children and some don't. It makes sense, some people like ballet some outdoor activities some videogames, there's no reason to expect kids would be different.

lhball 4y ago

> I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more Exactly this. I have 2 under six, and outside the odd night were my wife bathes both kids, from 6am to 9pm I’m either working or hanging out with my kids. Maybe 2-3 times a month I’ll get 4 hours to myself to go watch a baseball/hockey game. At the end of the day though, I look back and I’m grateful. I tell myself “where did my hobbies go” but deep down I know I probably would have spent that time watching a 3 hour super smash brothers documentary or re-reading LOTR or something stupid like that. Kids have made me more focused. Their unconditional needs force me to weed out the time wasting, unimportant things in my life. I honestly sometimes wonder how it ever felt like I was busy before.

mingusrude 4y ago
When we had kids I realized that I had to get new hobbies because I wouldn't be able to keep doing the old ones. I pretty much decided that cooking and looking after house plants were going to be be my new hobbies since I knew that I would actually have time for it because of necessity (well maybe not the plants). It worked out OK, I still enjoy cooking a lot.

Xixi 4y ago

Parent wrote "The sleepless nights and diaper changes are a mere blip on the scale of a lifetime with kids." You still pretty much in the middle of that blip. It is exhausting. When your kids are getting closer to 10, you will have a very different perspective. And you will have as much time as you want to enjoy hobbies, going out, etc. Source: I have a 12yo at home.

radicalbyte 4y ago

> haven't had any time for myself until the kids are down at 7.30 I have three kids (3, 6, 9) and we don't get to sit down without kids until around 22:00 on average. Sometimes it's quiet at 20:00 (the youngest two asleep), sometimes at 00:30. We have no life outside of work and kids. It should eventually get better though, as soon as the youngest two start being able to sleep themselves.

ssss11 4y ago

I’m kind of in the same boat as you, but I don’t think it’ll last forever. We’ll get some personal time back, but in the meantime hang in there.

TomK32 4y ago

Sounds like you are the breadwinner, have you thought about the financial feasibility of taking an afternoon off, at least until the kids are at school and a lot more independent? One hobby I picked up when my kid was about three was crochet (men can do it just fine), so we spent afternoons at the playground, she playing with other children while I did crochet e.g. a hobby horse.

ckdarby 4y ago

Have you had your blood checked in the last year? You could very well have a vitamin D deficiency which will explain the exhaustion. It's hard to have empathy, because my weeks are 70-80 hours every week and I honestly still feel like I have plenty of down time. In terms of time you have the time based on your profile. Plenty of time spent on HN. You're also gaining the equivalent of work+commute every Saturday & Sunday.

flurdy 4y ago

>> 3) You actually like hanging out with your own kids. > I don't know what age that starts, but I'm 5 years and counting. I hope it kicks in soon. I love spending time with my kids. They are 8 & 11 now. Sure they can be annoying and as they get older more viscous arguing... But still I look forward to go for walks with them or have a little minecraft session together, or just some simple lego. Or just fixing/building things together around the house, inside or out. Sometimes not or just for short periods. But I look forward to the next time. I have taken a lot of time off on purpose to spend as much time with them as possible whilst they are young. And working from home before we all had to. Still they get super excited to spend time with me on anything. But my oldest is now 11 and I can feel she soon will prefer hanging out with her friends and not her embarrassing dad. But I agree, weekdays when I am working full time it is still knackering. I dream of them all being in bed at 7.30. And spending time with and looking after my kids means I have no time for friends or most of my hobbies at weekends. Though as the older one may soon want to spend less time with her dad that also means she require less of my supervision as she goes to clubs and sports after school, and organises her time herself more independently. So I may soon have time for hobbies again. Mid-life crisis here I come.

nickd2001 4y ago

Are you exhausted from the kids, or because your job exhausts you too much to have energy left for them? In which case change jobs? Sure kids are tiring, temperamental, they go completely hyper, argue incessantly about stuff, don't get ready to go out when asked, don't go to sleep then are tired and fractious next day, change their mind about what they want to do when you made a big effort for them, fight with each other (as well as being very nice and caring to each other next minute) etc etc. But they're delightful, and funny, and super companions at the same time. As for hobbies, as others have said, finding hobbies you can do with your kids is good. The great outdoors and music making can be shared at a young age, if they're into that. I found even reading them stories, as they get older the books get more interesting, many kids books are actually fascinating for adults.

icare_1er 4y ago

Kind of makes me anxious about having kids but I have also heard, on the other end, senior people expressing how gloomy it feels to not have kids. And unlike the tiredness of having kids, that anxiety only grows forever till the day you die and all you leave behind is a nice car.

p2detar 4y ago
My algorithmic approach has always been: 1. You’re 100% sure you don’t want kids? Then don’t. 2. In all other cases, have a child. Even when in doubt. Years will pass and doubt may perish, but with it also the ability to have children.
- texasbigdata 4y ago
  This seems like the most inhumane way to make the decision discussed, even if you're not necessarily wrong for taking this approach. I can't imagine what it'd be like being a small child in a household where your parents "had doubt" and turns out they didn't really want you after all. You can't fake it well enough for 18 years where they wouldn't notice. Just sad imho
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

cliftonk 4y ago

I have two kids under two. It's tough, but i dont personally know any parents that don't have a ton of fun with their kids. I love spending time with my 2 year-old. We have tons of fun together (like many 2 year olds, outside activities are a must). I'd rather be with him than any of my friends or other family and wouldn't trade it for the world.

danielrpa 4y ago

The best phase is about to begin, and the worst of child raising is behind you. It will never be easy, but IMHO older kids are a lot more fun, clever and interactive.

ybalkind 4y ago

My experience of having kids is very similar to yours. But I will say that I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel. My kids are now 8 and 4, no more diapers or waking up at night. My wife and I are getting better at managing parenting responsibilities and lifts. My life is getting more balanced again. And I'm feeling a shift closer to what the comment above yours describes, although I'm not entirely there yet. To be fair though we have 4 grandparents to help plus a nannie so not representative of most people.

sgt101 4y ago

The big change for me was year 6.. so hang in there friend. When they are 6 they become much more self contained, they don't need constant entertaining. They will leave you alone, without being asked, for hours at a time to do what they want to. You have 2 so you will have a bit of a longer spell, but after 6 you enter into the high summer of their childhood. They are small enough not to have any real problems (apart from, god forbid, medical ones) but they are big enough to give you time and space to breath. I hear your pain. But it will be worth it, and it will improve.

trident5000 4y ago

Dont have kids if you're poor.

ttcbj 4y ago

It is exhausting. My kids are 9 and 11. It’s different, but still all consuming. Still, I think it is very hard for anyone to predict what some one else’s experience will be having kids. It depends on the kids temperament, yours, your spouses, how your relationship works, What the expectations are in your community, and so much more. The older I get, especially now that I see my parents really aging, the more I see life is just complicated. Kids or not, you have to find happiness where you can, and accept that sometimes things are imperfect.

the_other 4y ago

> I don't think I'm necessarily having the same experience as you.... my advice to people who aren't sure if they want kids, is DON'T. It's bloody hard, you sacrifice A LOT. Don't have kids unless you're very sure it's what you want. That's one perspective. I wasn't ready for kids but had one anyway. It's worked out fairly well. My kid rocks and we have a lot of fun. > have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more. I leave for work first thing, come home in the afternoon, and haven't had any time for myself until the kids are down at 7.30, and I'm utterly wasted. I have one and I started to get back into hobbies around their age 7. So I would imagine having two slows that process down a bit. I'm pretty sure you'll get some time back, but you might need to stick it out a couple more years. If you can, tweak your hobbies to include them a bit (obviously it depends on the hobby) - mine really liked synths for a couple of years: that was great fun :-D. Something that hit me hard recently was that when I do my hobbies & socialising, I do them away from my family. This now looks like a mistake. I think I should have worked harder to have kid-compatible friends and hobbies over the last couple of years. I'm aiming to do more more activity stuff (camping, surfing etc) with mine over the next couple of years. Deeper into their teens, they wont want to hang out with me much so I need to get it done now. > As for enjoying hanging around with kids It's really hard. You've got to get into undirected play yourself. I didn't do this enough.

_jss 4y ago

I didn't genuinely enjoy parenting until my kids were all above 6, and it was gradual. My kids are 16 and 14 now, and at the start of their summer break I left a job I really liked to spend as much time as I could with them. Their problems were more thought provoking and time intensive, navigating tough tradeoffs. I love helping them through these moments, teaching critical thinking, and we still have fun doing things. When they were younger, I tried to find some longer focal point and figure out what my role and goals were as a parent. I found that, and it helped relieve some of the repetitive stress of parenting young kids. I don't know the source for the "75% of the time we spent with our kids happens before age 12" but I hope it isn't true. Kids are inexperienced people, and experience cultivates interesting people. I also believe an hour spent with a glassy eyed baby barely counts compared to a thoughtful, focused 15 minute discussion with a teenager. I hope you find your groove. It took me a while.

stormdennis 4y ago

To cap it all you'll feel guilty for feeling this way in later years when they're gone.

mherdeg 4y ago

Do you think your own parents felt this way?

lee 4y ago

My kids are older now (10 and 13) and I really enjoy these years than when they were younger whereas my wife really enjoyed them more in the earlier years. That period of enjoyment really varies between individuals, and I think in the aggregate men tend to enjoy hanging out with older kids compared to women. There was also a moment when I shifted my own personal attitude towards spending time with them that made it more enjoyable. Instead of seeing time with them as a time-suck where I could be doing something else, I saw it as fleeting moments that I could never get back when they're older. I became more grateful for the time I had with them.

Shocka1 4y ago

I would agree mostly, but this comment a little on the extreme side IMO. You sound miserable. I can relate as this is exactly how I felt the first 6 months of the first child we had - they are between 4 and 7 now. I was and still am a pretty selfish person with lots of hobbies, but most of them had to go to the backburner for the time being. Once I was able to get over myself things started going a lot smoother. Of course there are times I wish I could be mountain biking, fishing, etc., instead of one of the many tasks that involve children, but I find myself looking forward to spending time with them these days. They are getting to the age where I'm starting to take them with me to enjoy the things I love as well. I imagine this will get higher in frequency as they get older. From one selfish person to another, hang in there.

imetatroll 4y ago

Life was pretty vapid in a deeper sense until I had children so I have to disagree with you. It is a challenge but is the only challenge that I have experienced in my life that truly feels worthwhile.

joshuahedlund 4y ago

> I have 2 kids under 6 and I feel like I just don't have any time for any of my hobbies any more I remember feeling like this when I had 2 kids under 6. Now they are both slightly past 6 and I feel everything the parent comment said about how brief that time was - they are in school most of the day, when they are home they spend at least some time playing Legos, watching shows, playing Minecraft, reading books. I have more time for hobbies than I've had in years. They are even starting to be old enough to accompany me on some of my hobbies. The reversal is so stark it's hard for me to comprehend how long it felt at the time and how short it looks now.