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Kanye West is buying Parler

frankhhhhhhhhh 4y ago
What the heck happened to The Verge? Haven't visited in a while and it doesn't even seem like it's the same site.
- joenathanone 4y ago
  They have become the avocado toast of tech news sites. I remember when they first got started as This Is My Next, when they had Joanna Stern, Joshua Topolsky and Paul Miller, the good ole days...
errantmind 4y ago
Absolute free speech platforms don't work for the majority of people because they have no way of constraining participants to the Overton Window. It may be hard to understand for some, but there are topics that make people highly uncomfortable. These people prefer an environment that 'protects' them from fringe ideas. The issue is, the 'Overton Enforcement' doesn't work when a large minority (say, 30% of users) has ideas considered highly controversial to the majority of users. Most people actually do want to live in a bubble most of the time so being exposed to these opinions undermines their sanity. A 100% free speech platform could work fairly well though if it was sophisticated enough to understand what a user does and doesn't want to see and then only occasionally expose them to controversial content. Kind of like TikTok's 'for you' page but with less censorship. Or, perhaps, let users control their exposure directly. Twitter doesn't have the technical capability to pull this off though so they are stuck with occasionally infuriating large minorities of users.
- bheadmaster 4y ago
  It seems that the main problem is trying to force everyone into the same enironment and searching for a one-size-fits-all solution, leading to censorship of almost any topic for which there is a vocal enough group that wants it censored. A simple solution would be federation - let people build and choose their own bubbles instead of forcing everyone into a one giant bubble. That's how it works in real-life.
  - cwkoss 4y ago
    The social graph itself should perform moderation rather than having a single all-powerful centralized censor.
robertsfrost 4y ago
mr_gibbins 4y ago
I spent a fruitless few minutes trying to find out about the company 'Ye' before realising this is a person. I feel old and confused.
tareqak 4y ago
Same story from: CNN Business - Kanye West to acquire conservative social media platform Parler - https://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_ad4adf7e27837537f8b07523aba9659b https://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_ad4adf7e27837537f8b07523ab... Associated Press - Kanye West to buy conservative social media platform Parler - https://apnews.com/article/kanye-west-parler-5b1cbdb1f311ae9de70b3d4e247e6201 https://apnews.com/article/kanye-west-parler-5b1cbdb1f311ae9... Reuters - Kanye West to buy social media app Parler - https://www.reuters.com/technology/parler-be-acquired-by-kanye-west-2022-10-17/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/parler-be-acquired-by-kan...
waffle6 4y ago
i love kanye so much
michaelcampbell 4y ago
In other words, isn't it Kanye is paying a lot of money to the husband of one his "advisors" (Candace Owens)?
cebert 4y ago
Has anyone seen any stats on how many Parler active daily users there are? I’d assume it’s quite small.
- tgv 4y ago
  And has Kanye already asked for statistics on the number of bots? I mean, it appears as if he's trying to do an Elon.
  - feralfoo 4y ago
    This looks more like pulling a 'Trump' with Truth Social, since they both got 'yeeted' from twitter and other platforms.
    - dd36 4y ago
      But he’s still on Twitter?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - feralfoo 4y ago
        Who are you referring to? Both were banned. Ye was allowed back recently and was banned again days later for anti-semitic tweets: https://www.google.com/search?q=kanye+banned+from+twitter https://www.google.com/search?q=kanye+banned+from+twitter https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+banned+from+twitter https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+banned+from+twitter *edit Ye/Kanye's twitter was locked, not banned.
        dd36 4y ago
        Kanye was banned? I thought they removed your content if you were banned.
        4y ago
hunglee2 4y ago
makes sense to own the means of communication, to shape the narrative. Ye on Parler will present a pretty clear challenge to US norms of freedom of speech - he is a vocal anti-semite (whilst at the same time claiming to be Jewish)and I doubt very much that ownership of any platform will moderate his views.
- fredgrott 4y ago
  But at the same time it's like the right-wing(nuts)-news in that not one is profitable and they always need outside money support. Its one of the ways we are able to identify dirty money in politics as when they do that its easy to track it as opposed to a cash infusion from the platform owner.
- flyinglizard 4y ago
  And it won’t do him any good because ultimately it’s Apple and Google who truly own the platforms and will decide who gets to play.
- sali0 4y ago
  I know many won't like this, but I think he meant Defcon 3, which I'm still not sure what it implies. I highly doubt he meant to issue death threats the way that people are perceiving this. Not to excuse his actions. I'd rather like to know wtf he's talking about and why.he would say something like this.
  - Pandabob 4y ago
    OP is referring to this: https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/9/23395490/twitter-lock-kanye-west-out-account-following-anti-semitic-post https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/9/23395490/twitter-lock-kan...
    - sali0 4y ago
      Yes apologies. Thought there was something else. Edited comment a bit.
  - 4y ago
datavirtue 4y ago
- aetherane 4y ago
  Many people can be high achieving and functional despite having mental health issues and pushback from people like you. Kanye has made decisions his whole life. Maybe some were bad but he has made it through and succeeded to a high degree.
  - dd36 4y ago
    Except Brittney.
  - datavirtue 4y ago
    He has obviously gone off the rails and needs help (I don't think he was like this many years ago). I'm disappointed that people view his antics as entertainment. He is serious, and quite obviously has a progressing problem. My original question, which has already been down-voted, was sincere. Par for the course in America, he will probably end up jailed due to his mental health issues.
    - adamrezich 4y ago
      is anyone else completely uncomfortable with how completely comfortable everyone is with people playing armchair psychiatrist for people they've never even personally met these days
      - coinbasetwwa 4y ago
        Yes. “Everyone I disagree with is crazy” is a real thing and disgusting. Reading a psychology book and a couple pop news articles doesn’t make these people psychiatrists or psychologists.
        MichaelCollins 4y ago
mrtksn 4y ago
Musk and everyone else is right that we do need a platform with free speech. The only problem is that all those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. I have been following self proclaimed free speech absolutists(because I too, believe in free speech but don't believe it exists) and they are totally not the kind of people that say "I hate what you say but I will die defending your right to say it". In all places, these people are curating comments and posts to push agenda. The only somewhat free place I've seen is 4Chan but it contains so much toxicity, that's its barely bearable. Yet again, I like that Musk and Kanye kind of people claim that they want free speech because at least we can hold them responsible when they don't deliver it. This is in contrast with the pure fascist where they cannot be held responsible for anything because they don't claim virtue in first place. It's a bit like companies doing greenwashing, which can be exposed when they don't deliver on their claimed virtues versus companies who don't even claim such virtues and instead pretend that it doesn't matter. Those who claim virtue are better even if they ultimately fail.
- BWStearns 4y ago
  > The only somewhat free place I've seen is 4Chan but it contains so much toxicity, that's its barely bearable. You've found the problem. There _are_ "anything legal" online spaces, and they _suck_. There's no way to have 0 moderation and not have the place turn basically into 4Chan. If people really want to be on totally free speech platforms, they can just go on 4Chan, but what they really want is to force everyone else to engage with the toxic shit they want to say and no one else wants to hear.
- bergenty 4y ago
  I’m no longer a free speech idealist.
- drc500free 4y ago
  > Yet again, I like that Musk and Kanye kind of people claim that they want free speech because at least we can hold them responsible when they don't deliver it. What does "holding them responsible" look like? Making pseudo-anonymous comments on HN calling them out? Giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point that they are acting in good faith seems hopelessly naïve and exactly the smokescreen they are looking for. They're saying whatever Bullshit(tm) it takes to get through this week with the best possible outcome, and you want to circle back in a couple years? No one will care or remember remember what the initial statement was. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit#Lying_and_bullshit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit#Lying_and_bullsh...
jsemrau 4y ago
Given that Parler is primarily associated with alt-right users, this purchase is quite amusing. Yet it underlines how the right to speak freely is under threat online and I am not sure if Billionaires further centralizing access is the right way forward.
- brutusborn 4y ago
  Why is that amusing? It makes sense that the "more free" platforms tend to attract people from the right because highly moderated platforms tend to censor right wing discussion more than left wing discussion. More extreme people are kicked off each platform successively until they end up places like 4chan. The opposite would be true if the mainstream advocated right wing politics, forcing left wing people onto the fringes. Similar to what happened pre-internet with the 60s counterculture, left wing ideas were found in the underground, whilst mainstream media pushed right wing ideas.
  - philjohn 4y ago
    Got some examples of right wing discussions that have been moderated?
    - casefields 4y ago
      Lab leak. Got you banned all over the place to discuss until it turned out to be legit. Oops.
      - philjohn 4y ago
        Discussing, or claiming that it was definitely a lab leak? Because the former should be fine, and encouraged, the latter, until it's proved either way, is disinformation.
  - dd36 4y ago
    I know my left wing friends would claim the media still is right wing and truly left wing ideas are disallowed. It may be that the left wing was censored and vilified for so long that it ceased existing in the US.
impowski 4y ago
I mean you can say “men are trash”, “white people are trash” and so on, but at the same time you are not allowed to say anything against jewish people or other people? Isn’t it kinda hypocritical? Maybe we should not allow toxic behavior at all and have a civil discourse about someone is feeling towards some group of people to allow him to change his mind? Personal attacks and hatred will not do any good this will only prove to that person that he is right.
- dd36 4y ago
  Kanye West is still on Twitter. What was it he couldn’t say?
  - tonightstoast 4y ago
    He made some anti Semitic comments and I thought his account was banned. Maybe it was just a suspension though.
    - paulpauper 4y ago
      that never happened. the tweet was only removed
      - Kiro 4y ago
        It says that he is locked out of his Twitter account in the article. Isn't that the same thing as being banned?
        nickthegreek 4y ago
        no, when you are banned, you pretty much cant get your account back. When it is locked, there are steps you can undertake to get access restored (like deleting the offending content).
- danuker 4y ago
  On one hand, there should ideally be no discrimination. So, hate speech directed even at white males should be disallowed. On the other hand, society resolved through politics (such as Affirmative Action) that the compound interest and lasting synergistic effects of historical discrimination should be compensated for somewhat. The only way to do that is through more discrimination (i.e. relatively penalizing the least historically discriminated-against people). I suspect this selective enforcement of the rules is one kind of such relative penalization. What I don't understand is why do private companies take it upon themselves to do this. Is it genuine stakeholder concern (in conflict with profits)? ESG criteria giving them access to cheaper funding or tax breaks? Plain marketing? Virtue signalling?
qwerty456127 4y ago
> In a world where conservative opinions are considered to be controversial In my opinion controversy and political incorrectness are Okay. I don't think people should be too concerned about hurting others' feelings when discussing objective phenomena or expressing their own opinion (as long as they acknowledge their subjectivity) . Nevertheless obvious (although not to everyone) absurd, blatant lies and manipulations shouldn't be covered by the free speech umbrella. I wish people could correctly judge what they read themselves, taking what they read and what they feel critically, but many apparently can not.
- luckylion 4y ago
  > Nevertheless obvious (although not to everyone) absurd, blatant lies and manipulations shouldn't be covered by the free speech umbrella. "Capitalism is the problem", "modern employment is wage slavery". These are absurd, blatant lies meant to manipulate. Would you have statements like that removed?
  - qwerty456127 4y ago
    These are opinions. And I lean to agreeing with them (except I don't think anybody knows a good solution to the problem). Blatant lies/absurd are things like all (or almost all) people of specific race are inherently evil or stupid, they control the state for their wicked aims and there is a gene for specific preferences which ought to be eradicated or we are doomed.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      That sounds to me like picking and choosing what's okay because "opinion" and what's not because "blatant lie".
      - qwerty456127 4y ago
        Is 2x2=7.21 an opinion or a simple absurd? I don't insist the lies I mentioned are as easy to identify. I understand they are easier for some people to believe. But the nature of the difference (as compared to complex, discussable philosophical ideas like "capitalism is a problem") seems to be the same. While abstract philosophical questions of the "life, universe and everything" category can be discussed infinitely and there is no simple right answer, there also are questions to which a simple answer exists, discoverable by any person who would care to exercise some logic (preferably alone, without being afraid to loose an argument).
dynamite-ready 4y ago
Kanye has burnt a lot of bridges, but he still enjoys a healthy portion of popularity. A very different form of popularity to that of both Trump and Musk too. Musk and Trump's audiences, I'll admit to guessing about this, are passionate for sure, but: - In Trump's case, tech literacy is low, the average age is relatively high, and disposable time they have, is probably low - Musk's audience is undoubtedly tech literate, but I would guess that the age demographic is similar to Trump's, and would further guess their disposable time is similar, if not lower (we nerds barely have time for HN!) Kanye's audience though... They're young, and they already live online. I can't imagine it overtaking Twitter at any point in the future, but I can definitely imagine the venture gaining more traction than Trump's attempt. And that will encourage other similarly minded business people to support his venture.
rospaya 4y ago
It's like the school bully buying a megaphone when he gets banned from the classroom.
- bakugo 4y ago
  Sometimes I wonder if people who post things like this have ever actually been to school.
  - rospaya 4y ago
    It's called an analogy, I don't think a lot of kids buy megaphones yknow?
SilverBirch 4y ago
I think this makes sense from a business perspective. Social media is actually a surprisingly hard business to make money at - look at Twitter. It's only the superscale businesses that make good money - Facebook, Youtube, Tiktok. And the dynamic is that because these businesses are primarily making money through marketing they need to keep a fairly neutral brand in order to retain an advertiser friendly platform. So what's the alternative? The WashPo business model - find a wealthy benefactor who believes in the mission to fund it. It doesn't necessarily have to be super expensive to run what is essentially a forum, especially if it's not going to hit massive scale. The only problem is that I don't think owning these platforms will give the kind of cultural relevance that these wealthy far-right types are chasing. So at some point they're going to lose interest and then you're back to the business model problem.
- mikkergp 4y ago
  I think the problem is that twitter is attractive _because_ of who is on it. Journalists, liberals. The goal isn't really to permit free speech, it's to make certain ideas and values more palatable in our society. There's no point of buying a big platform if you can't attract/retain the people you're trying to influence.
raydiatian 4y ago
Can’t wait to watch the Kanye West dead stick nose dive
zikduruqe 4y ago
Makes this tweet all the more relevant - https://nitter.net/JudiciaryGOP/status/1578174670854975491 https://nitter.net/JudiciaryGOP/status/1578174670854975491
GoodJokes 4y ago
I can say whatever I want to my friends or cat. The people who want free speech in the internet just want to broadcast offensive or dangerous speech.
gorbachev 4y ago
- typeofhuman 4y ago
jleyank 4y ago
Can't make private individuals or companies host your speech. Can't make people listen to your speech. There's no protection against civil (ie, non governmental) action against your speech. You want freedom, host it your self and be prepared to accept the consequences and gains. Go to Speakers Corner and have a go. Put up a website. Buy a TV/Radio station, or Internet provider.
- YeBanKo 4y ago
  Twitter became de-facto a part of public square. Especially since appointed and elected officials started using for official and non-official communicate. The US court of appeals said it pretty clearly here: https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/local/4th-circuit-rules-against-virginia-elected-official-who-blocked-constituent-on-facebook/3372/ https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/local/4th-circui... Censoring individual twits is one thing, but banning entire account is a different thing, because now it restricts your ability to interact with elected officials. Besides, equal time rule demands that TV and radio stations(private and public) give equal time to competing politicians. There are exceptions, but logically it should extend to social media and video hosting sites, because they are today’s version of radio and TV stations. On top of that, I would argue social media became the only mean of public assembly, which is a protected right, during Covid lockdown. Politicians pay attention to twitter, you can’t assemble by the city hall with banners to express your opinion, because you are to stay home. The next closest thing is to swarm twitter and facebook, given how closely they watch trends there.
  - noahtallen 4y ago
    As a counterpoint, even in the public square, not all types of speech are allowed. For a frivolous example, many cities have noise ordinances and laws against breaking the public peace. So you get tossed in jail for a night for being a public nuisance. We treat Twitter and Internet forums less seriously, as if someone can say whatever the fuck they want with no consequences at all. That’s not how it works in the public square, so why should it be that way on Twitter?
    - 4y ago
jeffwask 4y ago
Candace Owens really played Ye.
- diceduckmonk 4y ago
  You don't become a multi-billionaire being the one that's played.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns. Someone can be brilliant for a long time and still get played in the end. Just take a look at what happened to Tony Hsieh after he got hooked on drugs: https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelauyeung/2021/01/26/cause-of-fire-that-killed-tony-hsieh-still-unclear-investigators-cite-carelessness-but-will-not-rule-out-intentional-act/?sh=2c30e72c4a70 https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelauyeung/2021/01/26/cause-o... > But instead, the community turned into a hedonistic enclave, where people on Hsieh’s payroll indulged his every whim — such as conducting a research report on the laughing gas nitrous oxide, which he was consuming daily, to figuring out a way to stop time—and were less willing to curb his increasingly concerning behavior and excessive drug use, Forbes previously reported. During this time, Hsieh resisted attempts by family members and close friends to check him into rehab, according to multiple people familiar with the matter. By the end of July, Hsieh was estranged from his parents and several of his close friends.
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    Nope, you do it by exploiting the less fortunate. Kayne is now among the less fortunate who suffer from untreated mental health issues. (The aforementioned mental health issues do not excuse antisemitism or other anti-social behaviors.)
  - ajb 4y ago
    You might become a non-multi-billionaire that way though
tptacek 4y ago
This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chunk of what he said was edited out and later leaked; the "people at the Gap" knew about Uvalde, Kanye is now a Black Hebrew Israelite, &c. He's quite evidently sick, and these Parler people are scamming him.
- tibbydudeza 4y ago
  Sound very much like the guy who started Zappos - clearly there was evidence he was on a downward spiral but people and so-called friends around him used it scam him.
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
- nwienert 4y ago
  This is gross slander. This is a black man who is a unicorn in two industries. One of the most successful black people of all time. Who is fighting to establish black ownership in those industries. Here’s his latest full interview where he goes into detail on what he’s been saying. I highly encourage you to watch at least the first 20 minutes: https://odysee.com/@ArchAngel:e/Ye-on-The-Media-The-Kardashians-Diddy-His-Children-Gap-Drake-More-Part-3-Drink-Champs:e https://odysee.com/@ArchAngel:e/Ye-on-The-Media-The-Kardashi... “I respect what the Jewish people have done and how they brought their people together” he isn’t just spewing anti semitism he’s making a principled stand for his people owning more of the industries they run and airing specific problems. Feel free to engage with them. (YouTube is censoring it because I guess you can critique whites and other ethnic groups all you want, but not Jews). I’m not endorsing anything here, but it’s clear he’s far within the realm of sanity. Accusations against someone’s sanity are of the ultimate nature, it’s a shame you lob them so. But in it he actually clearly addresses everything you mention: Pete, Gap, Corey, and more. All of your points he has logical explanations for and I highly doubt you’re familiar with then since it seems you only follow Instagram posts, which is ludicrous. In it I hear someone who is incredibly well controlled, who is speaking clearly and logically, and who has legitimate greviances borne out of experience. In fact I was surprised, as he’s always been a bit of a spaz in interviews (nothing too unusual, just within range ADHD, stress, narcissism would be my guess), so I was expecting worse. But if anything he seems more rational and grounded than ever.
status200 4y ago
"Parler was later reinstated on both app stores after agreeing to more closely moderate posts" Free speech, and by free they mean speech that they can control.
- juve1996 4y ago
  A store can decide what products to put on it shelf. If your product is unpalatable sell it somewhere else or make it palatable, which they (smartly) did.
wellbehaved 4y ago
A fool and his money are soon parted.
- chatterhead 4y ago
  Yet his net worth keeps growing...
Ruq 4y ago
I gotta say, this was the last thing I expected to read today.
hikingsimulator 4y ago
It is quite tragic to see him become the Bobby Fischer of music. Let's hope he finds and accepts help.
P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul 4y ago
- samirsd 4y ago
  2 * 0 = 0 fyi
  - P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul 4y ago
    An app with millions of users, that everyone in this thread knows about, is worth $0?
    - etchalon 4y ago
      If it doesn't make money today, and does not any path to profitability, yes.
      - klyrs 4y ago
        Looks like they're about to get a chunk of Ye's cash, so it's worth more than zero until the transaction closes.
- FredPret 4y ago
  Criticizing an ethnic group / culture is racist. If you're racist against Jews, that's called anti-Semitism. It's a reliable indicator that someone is a nutcase, either far-right or far-left. It's even worse than many other forms of bigotry because Jews have been targeted for genocide repeatedly over the centuries, most recently one human lifetime ago, and in an advanced Western nation.
  - yjgyhj 4y ago
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  The whole thing reminds me of Michael Jackson. "All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us."
jasonhansel 4y ago
IIRC Trump wouldn't join Parler unless it agreed (among other things) to censor his critics. This seems to be a pattern with Trump: he demands that people be more loyal to him personally than to any abstract principle (including free speech absolutism).
11thEarlOfMar 4y ago
The antidote for all who gain information via the Internet is to develop their common sense and critical thinking skills. We must know what to question and then, how to pull answers to form our judgements and our resulting actions. These skills need to be core to all education curriculum. This is most critical for judgements that lead to consequential decisions and actions. Whether you love someone or hate them, those feelings lead to bad outcomes if not based on correct information and reasoning.
seanw444 4y ago
Hey guys, I have an idea: why don't we try building free-speech protocols rather than free-speech platforms? Humans are fallible. We like to think we could build something where people can talk freely, but if the ability to censor something we don't like is presented, at some point nearly everybody will take that action because they personally deem it necessary for some greater good. Ultimately, protocols that cannot be altered or censored (at least without significant and difficult amounts of effort) are what are necessary to obtain true free speech. There are some groups that are understanding this, and working accordingly. LBRY for example, says exactly this in their "what is LBRY" article: > Building protocols, not platforms, is the best way to secure a free, open internet. As long as people use centralized services that are susceptible to fallible human intervention, that fallibility will be acted upon. Centralization was adequate back when the internet was first brewing. Many people had common interests, people were respectful of others' data often enough that encrypted network protocols weren't deemed necessary. Now, encryption is almost required because so many people have bad intentions. The internet has grown, and so have the amount of conflicting demographics using it. Just as we had to adopt encryption on a wide scale to keep the internet usable, adopting decentralization at a wide scale will be too. And that includes making it easy enough for normies to access that they think nothing else of it, much like how they don't care what encryption is, as long as there's a lock icon in their search bar.
- zamadatix 4y ago
  Protocols to exchange free speech already exist. The hard part is doing something most people consider useful with them without turning yourself into a platform.
- VikingCoder 4y ago
  "true free speech" is not something that is free of problems. Child Porn, Revenge Porn, National Defense secrets leaking, instructions for Chlorine Gas masquerading as instructions for making Play-Doh, libel and slander, weaponized disinformation, doxxing, harassment, threats of violence. I get there are advantages to avoiding censure, in many extremely important situations. But don't pretend like it doesn't also hurt people.
logicalmonster 4y ago
How could an average outside observer distinguish between another's mental illness and a guy who's just a real out of the box thinker who might be wrong about many ideas but might also add value to the world by perceiving reality in an atypical way? A lot of posters are claiming Kanye is mentally ill and unable to manage his own affairs. What is the direct evidence of this? And I don't simply mean "provide examples of opinions he's said that I don't understand or care for". I think it's pretty dangerous to be labeling people involved in the national dialogue as mentally ill without a diagnosis, or at least some substantial and direct evidence. This label could be weaponized by an authoritarian political movement in a very dangerous way if that's the precedent we're using.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  I'm seeing the mental illness label used to defend him more than stigmatize him. The tone is "he's not really responsible for the antisemitism, he just can't help it."
- anoonmoose 4y ago
  He has personally admitted to being diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
  - logicalmonster 4y ago
    I never want to be engaged in mind-reading, but it seems to me that the people who are shouting about him being mentally ill the loudest are doing so in a way to justify stifling everything he says, as if saying "he's mentally ill" ends any conceivable discussion about any of his ideas. I think my general question remains. "How could an average outside observer distinguish between another's mental illness and a guy who's just a real out of the box thinker who might be wrong about many ideas but might also add value to the world by perceiving reality in an atypical way?"
    - anoonmoose 4y ago
      In my opinion there's no real discussion to be had on the things he is saying recently, so dismissing them as the rantings of a mentally ill man is the most charitable thing to do. If he's not mentally ill, then he's an extremely ill-informed anti-Semite who either believes outlandish things or pretends to for engagement.
dudeinjapan 4y ago
I'm gonna be a contrarian here and say I'm genuinely excited to see what Yeezy does with the platform, assuming its not just a passing interest. For all his antics, his work in music and fashion is legit, and those two are a large reason people are on social media today. If we required artists be 100% free of mental illness, we would not have Van Gogh, Georgia O'Keeffe, Kusama Yayoi, Michelangelo, Brian Wilson, etc. Let him be him, enjoy what he creates, and take it all with a grain of salt.
- diceduckmonk 4y ago
  There's even a word for this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art Just learned about this at the Mori Art Museum, since your username is dudeinjapan.
  - dudeinjapan 4y ago
    Funny thing I just learned the same a few days ago, but I think through a click-chain beginning on HN. Been awhile since I was last at Mori Art Museum, they have some good stuff. Many years ago I used to volunteer there giving tours for learning disabled young adults. Recommend to check out the Museum of Contemporary Art Tokyo (MOT), they have some killer exhibits, I've been to nearly every one the last few years.
    - diceduckmonk 4y ago
      > Museum of Contemporary Art Tokyo (MOT) I was just there yesterday haha. Glad we agree.
      - dudeinjapan 4y ago
        Nice!! You must have caught the Jean Prouve exhibit on its closing day then. That one was killer, I really enjoyed it with all the actual portable houses setup. Another highlight in this past year was an exhibit the making of the classic Godzilla movies, they had some of the miniature sets recreated.
AzzieElbab 4y ago
Are we going to end up with a social network per celebrity at some point?
diceduckmonk 4y ago
"Great Minds Discuss Ideas. Average Minds Discuss Events. Small Minds Discuss People." I feel there's already disproportionate discussion here about a person and their cult of personality here. This doesn't feel quite in the spirit of HN. Even during the Elon Musk Twitter debacles there was still separate threads about the business dynamics and whether he is playing some kind of 4D chess. The attempts to quickly discredits Ye West's other accomplishment feels borderline like anti-blackness, except with the passive aggressive pretense of being concerned about his mental well-being. For example, Kanye West was part of the Fendi intern cohort which, as a former fashion design student myself, I find to be far more exclusive and prestigious than a Google internship (which I was offered). He's not just a musician but he's behind the scenes for making other established artists including Jay-Z and Beyonce, also billionaires. Even the title of the article being "Kanye West is buying Parler" feels disrespect when he said he goes by Ye, now. This is inconsistent with tech's community plight of respecting self-identification. This is a community to talk about entrepreneurship, so let's talk about that. How are people jumping to the conclusion that he is being "scammed" without even knowing the terms of the deal? On that note, how much do you think this acquisition will go for? I noticed Parler has 3.3K ratings average 3 stars on the IOs App Store and Truth Social has 121k, averaging 4.5 stars. I will go out on a limb and question whether the 4D chess with Twitter and Parler will somehow involve Truth Social / DWAC.
- Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
  > This is a community to talk about entrepreneurship Entrepreneurship is something you do for a living. A mean to get satisfaction and something you do to feel good. You can have the best numbers but still be despised by the business community because of the way you act, and similarly nobody in the business community would trade places with you despite your amazing numbers because the way you act denotes mental illness. Money is worth nothing if you have mental illness. It's exactly the case for Musk and West.
- deleted 4y ago
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monopoliessuck 4y ago
There's a really concerning trend on HN and elsewhere I'm seeing. Everyone now seems to think free speech is too dangerous to try and promote anymore. It's been a shift over a couple years. I'm not supporting Ye or any of his bullshit, but some of the comments on here are really chillingly authoritarian. Parler isn't going to be able to maintain "free speech" even if they or Kanye want it to, which I seriously doubt anyway. They don't "have it now" and they won't have it tomorrow either. Still, it's strange how HN flips so violently against free speech when the content is obviously offensive and low quality. People need to be better stewards of their own beliefs, not simply shielded from malicious, dim or unsavory ones out there in public. As an aside, I can't believe celebrities have the sway they do. Today's breed talks like such imbeciles; I have no idea how they keep people's interest.
- shepherdjerred 4y ago
  > There's a really concerning trend on HN and elsewhere I'm seeing. Everyone now seems to think free speech is too dangerous to try and promote anymore. What are you thoughts on free speech regarding misinformation or election denial? When so many republican candidates reject the result of 2020, what's the right answer? Allow them to continue to divide the country up until half of the populace no longer trusts the democracy and starts another civil war?
  - monopoliessuck 4y ago
    I think mandated information disclosure is extremely important in a capitalist system. How can we make good decisions if we don't have good information? We need to ask more questions, trust, but verify. We do pass laws that require those that sell products and services to disclose X, Y and Z for their products in a standardized and uniform manner. Likewise, we should be skeptical and critical about what others are telling us. Information that's not tied to such a simple tit for tat relationship gets in the weeds though. How do you define "misinformation" as it pertains to your mother on someone's feed? You can claim and sue for damages and if a judge and jury find your case, then that's what it is, but mandating strict systematic moderation of all internet users on social media is not the same as mandating information disclosure for the Kellogs or IKEAs of the world. We've decided that Horseradish dyed green can be sold as Wasabi on the ingredients list. This is officially supported misinformation right? In this instance, election denial is almost complete idiocy, yes, but barring "election denial" wholesale is a terrible thing to do. Your questions are quite leading too. We need more discussion around these topics, not less. I've talked election deniers off their stupid cliffs before. When SCOTUS shot down the Bush v. Gore recount decades ago, Americans had reason to be upset and talk about it. Would it have been more unifying if everyone had just bowed their heads, quickly and quietly, accepting the results without fuss, sure... Censorship is a great tool for quelling public dissent. It's a shortcut around reason though and we've built up these tribal walls that preclude solving problems together. If quieting dissenters is the thing you want to maximize, you'll do great with it. We're not the only ones chomping at the bit to censor those that disagree with us, but I guess be careful what you wish for.
coffeeblack 4y ago
Awesome.
ea550ff70a 4y ago
- barbariangrunge 4y ago
PointyFluff 4y ago
And? If I wanted racist-idiot-news, I'd go to reddit.
deleted 4y ago
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citilife 4y ago
I think others may be missing the fact of why Kanye could be buying Parler - Kanye just had his bank account closed by JP Morgan (for what appears to be his beliefs) https://www.tmz.com/2022/10/13/kanye-west-bank-jp-morgan-end-relationship-anti-semitic/ https://www.tmz.com/2022/10/13/kanye-west-bank-jp-morgan-end... - Kanye was kicked off instagram & twitter https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kanye-west-instagram-account-restricted-anti-semitic-1234607759/ https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kanye-west-ins... - It's still unclear exactly why both occurred. Supposedly it's antisemitism, but he also just wore a "white lives matter" shirt https://nypost.com/2022/10/07/kanye-west-defends-white-lives-matter-shirt-on-tucker-carlson/ https://nypost.com/2022/10/07/kanye-west-defends-white-lives... The connection between all of this could lead someone to want to buy their own social media company.
- zerocrates 4y ago
  The whole JP Morgan thing happened before all this, they dumped him back in September. A week or so before even that he was talking about dropping Chase on TV, he was upset at not getting face time with Jamie Dimon, and he'd been mad at them on social media before that. The recent statements about Jews and the "white lives matter" thing are both after that letter. That it was instead retaliation for "his beliefs" is a convenient inference his camp is happy for people to draw though.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > - Kanye just had his bank account closed by JP Morgan (for what appears to be his beliefs) The article quotes Kanye on this one: > "I went to JP Morgan but of course they won't give me no deal flow cause Jin Ulrich is on the board of both adidas and JP Morgan." This sounds like an accusation of conflict of interest. How is this related to his beliefs?
- DistractionRect 4y ago
  > - It's still unclear exactly why both occurred. Supposedly it's antisemitism, but he also just wore a "white lives matter" shirt Ye saying he's "going to go defcon 3 on the Jews" is absolutely antisemitic and absolutely why he got restricted on Twitter. [0] That's the tweet that was received moderation, and its subject matter is very clear. I don't see how one could be unclear of why that got removed or unclear that's it's antisemitic. Wearing a shirt doesn't magical erase one's behavior. "White lives matter," "All lives matter", it does not matter; what a shirt says won't make his antisemitic comments not antisemitic. Kinda like staring a sentence "I'm not a racist but..." doesn't make whatever racist comment that follows not racist. As an aside him wearing the shirt isn't in support of Jews or white lives, it's him being funny/ironic. Read your own source. When you have a "<minority> lives matter" it's about speaking up for an un/under-represented group. White lives matter is a joke, as they are the majority. To paraphrase your source, it's funny because it's a black man stating the obvious. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/09/entertainment/kanye-west-twitter-account-locked/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/09/entertainment/kanye-west-twit...
unity1001 4y ago
You people are saying how that is crazy or Kanye has gone crazy, having a breakdown etc, but there is a method to the madness: He ran for president in 2020. He has been posturing himself as a conservative since a while. This move fits into that pattern and signals that he is going to go into GOP politics.
- balls187 4y ago
  That was my thought as well. He is saying outlandish things to poise himself to run for president in 2024. His relationship to Candace Owens is what tipped off his plan to me.
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  Where does "going death con 3 on jewish people" fall into his grand plan?
  - balls187 4y ago
    Courting conservatives. Remember these guys: https://www.splcenter.org/file/15770 https://www.splcenter.org/file/15770
    - shepherdjerred 4y ago
      > Courting conservatives. Equating all conservatives with radial groups is not helpful and only further sows division.
      - balls187 4y ago
        Turning a blind eye to how prevalent radical ideology permeates the conservative base is also not helpful. https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll-61-republicans-still-believe-biden-didnt-win-fair-square-2020-rcna49630 https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll... But you missed my point--by galvanizing the conservative base that is racist, homophobic, sexist, and anti-semetic, it leaves the rest of conservative party with an impossible choice--support a democratic candidate, or vote party line. That is how Kanye is courting conservatives.
999900000999 4y ago
What if your favorite artist didn't die at 27... He becomes Kanye. Apart of this is a challenge to his audience. Do you STILL listen?
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  Or Leonard Cohen, or Elton John, or David Bowie, or Dave Grohl. Not every artist who gets old becomes a weirdo with bizarre opinions.
glonq 4y ago
If you're an advisor/accountant/manger to Kanye, do you just shake your head and sigh when stuff like this happens? Or maybe they don't give a damn because they are also financially benefiting from this guy's mental illness?
protoc 4y ago
Is there any "normal" content on parler? everything on the front page is right-wing politics

What the heck happened to The Verge? Haven't visited in a while and it doesn't even seem like it's the same site.

joenathanone 4y ago
They have become the avocado toast of tech news sites. I remember when they first got started as This Is My Next, when they had Joanna Stern, Joshua Topolsky and Paul Miller, the good ole days...

Absolute free speech platforms don't work for the majority of people because they have no way of constraining participants to the Overton Window. It may be hard to understand for some, but there are topics that make people highly uncomfortable. These people prefer an environment that 'protects' them from fringe ideas. The issue is, the 'Overton Enforcement' doesn't work when a large minority (say, 30% of users) has ideas considered highly controversial to the majority of users. Most people actually do want to live in a bubble most of the time so being exposed to these opinions undermines their sanity. A 100% free speech platform could work fairly well though if it was sophisticated enough to understand what a user does and doesn't want to see and then only occasionally expose them to controversial content. Kind of like TikTok's 'for you' page but with less censorship. Or, perhaps, let users control their exposure directly. Twitter doesn't have the technical capability to pull this off though so they are stuck with occasionally infuriating large minorities of users.

bheadmaster 4y ago
It seems that the main problem is trying to force everyone into the same enironment and searching for a one-size-fits-all solution, leading to censorship of almost any topic for which there is a vocal enough group that wants it censored. A simple solution would be federation - let people build and choose their own bubbles instead of forcing everyone into a one giant bubble. That's how it works in real-life.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  The social graph itself should perform moderation rather than having a single all-powerful centralized censor.

robertsfrost 4y ago

mr_gibbins 4y ago

I spent a fruitless few minutes trying to find out about the company 'Ye' before realising this is a person. I feel old and confused.

tareqak 4y ago

Same story from: CNN Business - Kanye West to acquire conservative social media platform Parler - https://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_ad4adf7e27837537f8b07523aba9659b https://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_ad4adf7e27837537f8b07523ab... Associated Press - Kanye West to buy conservative social media platform Parler - https://apnews.com/article/kanye-west-parler-5b1cbdb1f311ae9de70b3d4e247e6201 https://apnews.com/article/kanye-west-parler-5b1cbdb1f311ae9... Reuters - Kanye West to buy social media app Parler - https://www.reuters.com/technology/parler-be-acquired-by-kanye-west-2022-10-17/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/parler-be-acquired-by-kan...

waffle6 4y ago

i love kanye so much

michaelcampbell 4y ago

In other words, isn't it Kanye is paying a lot of money to the husband of one his "advisors" (Candace Owens)?

cebert 4y ago

Has anyone seen any stats on how many Parler active daily users there are? I’d assume it’s quite small.

tgv 4y ago
And has Kanye already asked for statistics on the number of bots? I mean, it appears as if he's trying to do an Elon.
- feralfoo 4y ago
  This looks more like pulling a 'Trump' with Truth Social, since they both got 'yeeted' from twitter and other platforms.
  - dd36 4y ago
    But he’s still on Twitter?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - feralfoo 4y ago
      Who are you referring to? Both were banned. Ye was allowed back recently and was banned again days later for anti-semitic tweets: https://www.google.com/search?q=kanye+banned+from+twitter https://www.google.com/search?q=kanye+banned+from+twitter https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+banned+from+twitter https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+banned+from+twitter *edit Ye/Kanye's twitter was locked, not banned.
      - dd36 4y ago
        Kanye was banned? I thought they removed your content if you were banned.
        4y ago

hunglee2 4y ago

makes sense to own the means of communication, to shape the narrative. Ye on Parler will present a pretty clear challenge to US norms of freedom of speech - he is a vocal anti-semite (whilst at the same time claiming to be Jewish)and I doubt very much that ownership of any platform will moderate his views.

fredgrott 4y ago
But at the same time it's like the right-wing(nuts)-news in that not one is profitable and they always need outside money support. Its one of the ways we are able to identify dirty money in politics as when they do that its easy to track it as opposed to a cash infusion from the platform owner.
flyinglizard 4y ago
And it won’t do him any good because ultimately it’s Apple and Google who truly own the platforms and will decide who gets to play.
sali0 4y ago
I know many won't like this, but I think he meant Defcon 3, which I'm still not sure what it implies. I highly doubt he meant to issue death threats the way that people are perceiving this. Not to excuse his actions. I'd rather like to know wtf he's talking about and why.he would say something like this.
- Pandabob 4y ago
  OP is referring to this: https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/9/23395490/twitter-lock-kanye-west-out-account-following-anti-semitic-post https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/9/23395490/twitter-lock-kan...
  - sali0 4y ago
    Yes apologies. Thought there was something else. Edited comment a bit.
- 4y ago

datavirtue 4y ago

aetherane 4y ago
Many people can be high achieving and functional despite having mental health issues and pushback from people like you. Kanye has made decisions his whole life. Maybe some were bad but he has made it through and succeeded to a high degree.
- dd36 4y ago
  Except Brittney.
- datavirtue 4y ago
  He has obviously gone off the rails and needs help (I don't think he was like this many years ago). I'm disappointed that people view his antics as entertainment. He is serious, and quite obviously has a progressing problem. My original question, which has already been down-voted, was sincere. Par for the course in America, he will probably end up jailed due to his mental health issues.
  - adamrezich 4y ago
    is anyone else completely uncomfortable with how completely comfortable everyone is with people playing armchair psychiatrist for people they've never even personally met these days
    - coinbasetwwa 4y ago
      Yes. “Everyone I disagree with is crazy” is a real thing and disgusting. Reading a psychology book and a couple pop news articles doesn’t make these people psychiatrists or psychologists.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago

mrtksn 4y ago

Musk and everyone else is right that we do need a platform with free speech. The only problem is that all those free speech advocates are actually NIMBY's when it comes to free speech. I have been following self proclaimed free speech absolutists(because I too, believe in free speech but don't believe it exists) and they are totally not the kind of people that say "I hate what you say but I will die defending your right to say it". In all places, these people are curating comments and posts to push agenda. The only somewhat free place I've seen is 4Chan but it contains so much toxicity, that's its barely bearable. Yet again, I like that Musk and Kanye kind of people claim that they want free speech because at least we can hold them responsible when they don't deliver it. This is in contrast with the pure fascist where they cannot be held responsible for anything because they don't claim virtue in first place. It's a bit like companies doing greenwashing, which can be exposed when they don't deliver on their claimed virtues versus companies who don't even claim such virtues and instead pretend that it doesn't matter. Those who claim virtue are better even if they ultimately fail.

BWStearns 4y ago
> The only somewhat free place I've seen is 4Chan but it contains so much toxicity, that's its barely bearable. You've found the problem. There _are_ "anything legal" online spaces, and they _suck_. There's no way to have 0 moderation and not have the place turn basically into 4Chan. If people really want to be on totally free speech platforms, they can just go on 4Chan, but what they really want is to force everyone else to engage with the toxic shit they want to say and no one else wants to hear.
bergenty 4y ago
I’m no longer a free speech idealist.
drc500free 4y ago
> Yet again, I like that Musk and Kanye kind of people claim that they want free speech because at least we can hold them responsible when they don't deliver it. What does "holding them responsible" look like? Making pseudo-anonymous comments on HN calling them out? Giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point that they are acting in good faith seems hopelessly naïve and exactly the smokescreen they are looking for. They're saying whatever Bullshit(tm) it takes to get through this week with the best possible outcome, and you want to circle back in a couple years? No one will care or remember remember what the initial statement was. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit#Lying_and_bullshit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit#Lying_and_bullsh...

jsemrau 4y ago

Given that Parler is primarily associated with alt-right users, this purchase is quite amusing. Yet it underlines how the right to speak freely is under threat online and I am not sure if Billionaires further centralizing access is the right way forward.

brutusborn 4y ago
Why is that amusing? It makes sense that the "more free" platforms tend to attract people from the right because highly moderated platforms tend to censor right wing discussion more than left wing discussion. More extreme people are kicked off each platform successively until they end up places like 4chan. The opposite would be true if the mainstream advocated right wing politics, forcing left wing people onto the fringes. Similar to what happened pre-internet with the 60s counterculture, left wing ideas were found in the underground, whilst mainstream media pushed right wing ideas.
- philjohn 4y ago
  Got some examples of right wing discussions that have been moderated?
  - casefields 4y ago
    Lab leak. Got you banned all over the place to discuss until it turned out to be legit. Oops.
    - philjohn 4y ago
      Discussing, or claiming that it was definitely a lab leak? Because the former should be fine, and encouraged, the latter, until it's proved either way, is disinformation.
- dd36 4y ago
  I know my left wing friends would claim the media still is right wing and truly left wing ideas are disallowed. It may be that the left wing was censored and vilified for so long that it ceased existing in the US.

impowski 4y ago

I mean you can say “men are trash”, “white people are trash” and so on, but at the same time you are not allowed to say anything against jewish people or other people? Isn’t it kinda hypocritical? Maybe we should not allow toxic behavior at all and have a civil discourse about someone is feeling towards some group of people to allow him to change his mind? Personal attacks and hatred will not do any good this will only prove to that person that he is right.

dd36 4y ago
Kanye West is still on Twitter. What was it he couldn’t say?
- tonightstoast 4y ago
  He made some anti Semitic comments and I thought his account was banned. Maybe it was just a suspension though.
  - paulpauper 4y ago
    that never happened. the tweet was only removed
    - Kiro 4y ago
      It says that he is locked out of his Twitter account in the article. Isn't that the same thing as being banned?
      - nickthegreek 4y ago
        no, when you are banned, you pretty much cant get your account back. When it is locked, there are steps you can undertake to get access restored (like deleting the offending content).
danuker 4y ago
On one hand, there should ideally be no discrimination. So, hate speech directed even at white males should be disallowed. On the other hand, society resolved through politics (such as Affirmative Action) that the compound interest and lasting synergistic effects of historical discrimination should be compensated for somewhat. The only way to do that is through more discrimination (i.e. relatively penalizing the least historically discriminated-against people). I suspect this selective enforcement of the rules is one kind of such relative penalization. What I don't understand is why do private companies take it upon themselves to do this. Is it genuine stakeholder concern (in conflict with profits)? ESG criteria giving them access to cheaper funding or tax breaks? Plain marketing? Virtue signalling?

qwerty456127 4y ago

> In a world where conservative opinions are considered to be controversial In my opinion controversy and political incorrectness are Okay. I don't think people should be too concerned about hurting others' feelings when discussing objective phenomena or expressing their own opinion (as long as they acknowledge their subjectivity) . Nevertheless obvious (although not to everyone) absurd, blatant lies and manipulations shouldn't be covered by the free speech umbrella. I wish people could correctly judge what they read themselves, taking what they read and what they feel critically, but many apparently can not.

luckylion 4y ago
> Nevertheless obvious (although not to everyone) absurd, blatant lies and manipulations shouldn't be covered by the free speech umbrella. "Capitalism is the problem", "modern employment is wage slavery". These are absurd, blatant lies meant to manipulate. Would you have statements like that removed?
- qwerty456127 4y ago
  These are opinions. And I lean to agreeing with them (except I don't think anybody knows a good solution to the problem). Blatant lies/absurd are things like all (or almost all) people of specific race are inherently evil or stupid, they control the state for their wicked aims and there is a gene for specific preferences which ought to be eradicated or we are doomed.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    That sounds to me like picking and choosing what's okay because "opinion" and what's not because "blatant lie".
    - qwerty456127 4y ago
      Is 2x2=7.21 an opinion or a simple absurd? I don't insist the lies I mentioned are as easy to identify. I understand they are easier for some people to believe. But the nature of the difference (as compared to complex, discussable philosophical ideas like "capitalism is a problem") seems to be the same. While abstract philosophical questions of the "life, universe and everything" category can be discussed infinitely and there is no simple right answer, there also are questions to which a simple answer exists, discoverable by any person who would care to exercise some logic (preferably alone, without being afraid to loose an argument).

dynamite-ready 4y ago

Kanye has burnt a lot of bridges, but he still enjoys a healthy portion of popularity. A very different form of popularity to that of both Trump and Musk too. Musk and Trump's audiences, I'll admit to guessing about this, are passionate for sure, but: - In Trump's case, tech literacy is low, the average age is relatively high, and disposable time they have, is probably low - Musk's audience is undoubtedly tech literate, but I would guess that the age demographic is similar to Trump's, and would further guess their disposable time is similar, if not lower (we nerds barely have time for HN!) Kanye's audience though... They're young, and they already live online. I can't imagine it overtaking Twitter at any point in the future, but I can definitely imagine the venture gaining more traction than Trump's attempt. And that will encourage other similarly minded business people to support his venture.

rospaya 4y ago

It's like the school bully buying a megaphone when he gets banned from the classroom.

bakugo 4y ago
Sometimes I wonder if people who post things like this have ever actually been to school.
- rospaya 4y ago
  It's called an analogy, I don't think a lot of kids buy megaphones yknow?

SilverBirch 4y ago

I think this makes sense from a business perspective. Social media is actually a surprisingly hard business to make money at - look at Twitter. It's only the superscale businesses that make good money - Facebook, Youtube, Tiktok. And the dynamic is that because these businesses are primarily making money through marketing they need to keep a fairly neutral brand in order to retain an advertiser friendly platform. So what's the alternative? The WashPo business model - find a wealthy benefactor who believes in the mission to fund it. It doesn't necessarily have to be super expensive to run what is essentially a forum, especially if it's not going to hit massive scale. The only problem is that I don't think owning these platforms will give the kind of cultural relevance that these wealthy far-right types are chasing. So at some point they're going to lose interest and then you're back to the business model problem.

mikkergp 4y ago
I think the problem is that twitter is attractive _because_ of who is on it. Journalists, liberals. The goal isn't really to permit free speech, it's to make certain ideas and values more palatable in our society. There's no point of buying a big platform if you can't attract/retain the people you're trying to influence.

raydiatian 4y ago

Can’t wait to watch the Kanye West dead stick nose dive

zikduruqe 4y ago

Makes this tweet all the more relevant - https://nitter.net/JudiciaryGOP/status/1578174670854975491 https://nitter.net/JudiciaryGOP/status/1578174670854975491

GoodJokes 4y ago

I can say whatever I want to my friends or cat. The people who want free speech in the internet just want to broadcast offensive or dangerous speech.

gorbachev 4y ago

typeofhuman 4y ago

jleyank 4y ago

Can't make private individuals or companies host your speech. Can't make people listen to your speech. There's no protection against civil (ie, non governmental) action against your speech. You want freedom, host it your self and be prepared to accept the consequences and gains. Go to Speakers Corner and have a go. Put up a website. Buy a TV/Radio station, or Internet provider.

YeBanKo 4y ago
Twitter became de-facto a part of public square. Especially since appointed and elected officials started using for official and non-official communicate. The US court of appeals said it pretty clearly here: https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/local/4th-circuit-rules-against-virginia-elected-official-who-blocked-constituent-on-facebook/3372/ https://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/local/4th-circui... Censoring individual twits is one thing, but banning entire account is a different thing, because now it restricts your ability to interact with elected officials. Besides, equal time rule demands that TV and radio stations(private and public) give equal time to competing politicians. There are exceptions, but logically it should extend to social media and video hosting sites, because they are today’s version of radio and TV stations. On top of that, I would argue social media became the only mean of public assembly, which is a protected right, during Covid lockdown. Politicians pay attention to twitter, you can’t assemble by the city hall with banners to express your opinion, because you are to stay home. The next closest thing is to swarm twitter and facebook, given how closely they watch trends there.
- noahtallen 4y ago
  As a counterpoint, even in the public square, not all types of speech are allowed. For a frivolous example, many cities have noise ordinances and laws against breaking the public peace. So you get tossed in jail for a night for being a public nuisance. We treat Twitter and Internet forums less seriously, as if someone can say whatever the fuck they want with no consequences at all. That’s not how it works in the public square, so why should it be that way on Twitter?
  - 4y ago

jeffwask 4y ago

Candace Owens really played Ye.

diceduckmonk 4y ago
You don't become a multi-billionaire being the one that's played.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns. Someone can be brilliant for a long time and still get played in the end. Just take a look at what happened to Tony Hsieh after he got hooked on drugs: https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelauyeung/2021/01/26/cause-of-fire-that-killed-tony-hsieh-still-unclear-investigators-cite-carelessness-but-will-not-rule-out-intentional-act/?sh=2c30e72c4a70 https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelauyeung/2021/01/26/cause-o... > But instead, the community turned into a hedonistic enclave, where people on Hsieh’s payroll indulged his every whim — such as conducting a research report on the laughing gas nitrous oxide, which he was consuming daily, to figuring out a way to stop time—and were less willing to curb his increasingly concerning behavior and excessive drug use, Forbes previously reported. During this time, Hsieh resisted attempts by family members and close friends to check him into rehab, according to multiple people familiar with the matter. By the end of July, Hsieh was estranged from his parents and several of his close friends.
- jeffwask 4y ago
  Nope, you do it by exploiting the less fortunate. Kayne is now among the less fortunate who suffer from untreated mental health issues. (The aforementioned mental health issues do not excuse antisemitism or other anti-social behaviors.)
- ajb 4y ago
  You might become a non-multi-billionaire that way though

tptacek 4y ago

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chunk of what he said was edited out and later leaked; the "people at the Gap" knew about Uvalde, Kanye is now a Black Hebrew Israelite, &c. He's quite evidently sick, and these Parler people are scamming him.

tibbydudeza 4y ago
Sound very much like the guy who started Zappos - clearly there was evidence he was on a downward spiral but people and so-called friends around him used it scam him.
daniel-cussen 4y ago
nwienert 4y ago
This is gross slander. This is a black man who is a unicorn in two industries. One of the most successful black people of all time. Who is fighting to establish black ownership in those industries. Here’s his latest full interview where he goes into detail on what he’s been saying. I highly encourage you to watch at least the first 20 minutes: https://odysee.com/@ArchAngel:e/Ye-on-The-Media-The-Kardashians-Diddy-His-Children-Gap-Drake-More-Part-3-Drink-Champs:e https://odysee.com/@ArchAngel:e/Ye-on-The-Media-The-Kardashi... “I respect what the Jewish people have done and how they brought their people together” he isn’t just spewing anti semitism he’s making a principled stand for his people owning more of the industries they run and airing specific problems. Feel free to engage with them. (YouTube is censoring it because I guess you can critique whites and other ethnic groups all you want, but not Jews). I’m not endorsing anything here, but it’s clear he’s far within the realm of sanity. Accusations against someone’s sanity are of the ultimate nature, it’s a shame you lob them so. But in it he actually clearly addresses everything you mention: Pete, Gap, Corey, and more. All of your points he has logical explanations for and I highly doubt you’re familiar with then since it seems you only follow Instagram posts, which is ludicrous. In it I hear someone who is incredibly well controlled, who is speaking clearly and logically, and who has legitimate greviances borne out of experience. In fact I was surprised, as he’s always been a bit of a spaz in interviews (nothing too unusual, just within range ADHD, stress, narcissism would be my guess), so I was expecting worse. But if anything he seems more rational and grounded than ever.

status200 4y ago

"Parler was later reinstated on both app stores after agreeing to more closely moderate posts" Free speech, and by free they mean speech that they can control.

juve1996 4y ago
A store can decide what products to put on it shelf. If your product is unpalatable sell it somewhere else or make it palatable, which they (smartly) did.

wellbehaved 4y ago

A fool and his money are soon parted.

chatterhead 4y ago
Yet his net worth keeps growing...

Ruq 4y ago

I gotta say, this was the last thing I expected to read today.

hikingsimulator 4y ago

It is quite tragic to see him become the Bobby Fischer of music. Let's hope he finds and accepts help.

P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul 4y ago

samirsd 4y ago
2 * 0 = 0 fyi
- P0l83q4p1Hw3Ul 4y ago
  An app with millions of users, that everyone in this thread knows about, is worth $0?
  - etchalon 4y ago
    If it doesn't make money today, and does not any path to profitability, yes.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      Looks like they're about to get a chunk of Ye's cash, so it's worth more than zero until the transaction closes.
FredPret 4y ago
Criticizing an ethnic group / culture is racist. If you're racist against Jews, that's called anti-Semitism. It's a reliable indicator that someone is a nutcase, either far-right or far-left. It's even worse than many other forms of bigotry because Jews have been targeted for genocide repeatedly over the centuries, most recently one human lifetime ago, and in an advanced Western nation.
- yjgyhj 4y ago
MichaelCollins 4y ago
The whole thing reminds me of Michael Jackson. "All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us."

jasonhansel 4y ago

IIRC Trump wouldn't join Parler unless it agreed (among other things) to censor his critics. This seems to be a pattern with Trump: he demands that people be more loyal to him personally than to any abstract principle (including free speech absolutism).

11thEarlOfMar 4y ago

The antidote for all who gain information via the Internet is to develop their common sense and critical thinking skills. We must know what to question and then, how to pull answers to form our judgements and our resulting actions. These skills need to be core to all education curriculum. This is most critical for judgements that lead to consequential decisions and actions. Whether you love someone or hate them, those feelings lead to bad outcomes if not based on correct information and reasoning.

seanw444 4y ago

Hey guys, I have an idea: why don't we try building free-speech protocols rather than free-speech platforms? Humans are fallible. We like to think we could build something where people can talk freely, but if the ability to censor something we don't like is presented, at some point nearly everybody will take that action because they personally deem it necessary for some greater good. Ultimately, protocols that cannot be altered or censored (at least without significant and difficult amounts of effort) are what are necessary to obtain true free speech. There are some groups that are understanding this, and working accordingly. LBRY for example, says exactly this in their "what is LBRY" article: > Building protocols, not platforms, is the best way to secure a free, open internet. As long as people use centralized services that are susceptible to fallible human intervention, that fallibility will be acted upon. Centralization was adequate back when the internet was first brewing. Many people had common interests, people were respectful of others' data often enough that encrypted network protocols weren't deemed necessary. Now, encryption is almost required because so many people have bad intentions. The internet has grown, and so have the amount of conflicting demographics using it. Just as we had to adopt encryption on a wide scale to keep the internet usable, adopting decentralization at a wide scale will be too. And that includes making it easy enough for normies to access that they think nothing else of it, much like how they don't care what encryption is, as long as there's a lock icon in their search bar.

zamadatix 4y ago
Protocols to exchange free speech already exist. The hard part is doing something most people consider useful with them without turning yourself into a platform.
VikingCoder 4y ago
"true free speech" is not something that is free of problems. Child Porn, Revenge Porn, National Defense secrets leaking, instructions for Chlorine Gas masquerading as instructions for making Play-Doh, libel and slander, weaponized disinformation, doxxing, harassment, threats of violence. I get there are advantages to avoiding censure, in many extremely important situations. But don't pretend like it doesn't also hurt people.

logicalmonster 4y ago

How could an average outside observer distinguish between another's mental illness and a guy who's just a real out of the box thinker who might be wrong about many ideas but might also add value to the world by perceiving reality in an atypical way? A lot of posters are claiming Kanye is mentally ill and unable to manage his own affairs. What is the direct evidence of this? And I don't simply mean "provide examples of opinions he's said that I don't understand or care for". I think it's pretty dangerous to be labeling people involved in the national dialogue as mentally ill without a diagnosis, or at least some substantial and direct evidence. This label could be weaponized by an authoritarian political movement in a very dangerous way if that's the precedent we're using.

hackerlight 4y ago
I'm seeing the mental illness label used to defend him more than stigmatize him. The tone is "he's not really responsible for the antisemitism, he just can't help it."
anoonmoose 4y ago
He has personally admitted to being diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  I never want to be engaged in mind-reading, but it seems to me that the people who are shouting about him being mentally ill the loudest are doing so in a way to justify stifling everything he says, as if saying "he's mentally ill" ends any conceivable discussion about any of his ideas. I think my general question remains. "How could an average outside observer distinguish between another's mental illness and a guy who's just a real out of the box thinker who might be wrong about many ideas but might also add value to the world by perceiving reality in an atypical way?"
  - anoonmoose 4y ago
    In my opinion there's no real discussion to be had on the things he is saying recently, so dismissing them as the rantings of a mentally ill man is the most charitable thing to do. If he's not mentally ill, then he's an extremely ill-informed anti-Semite who either believes outlandish things or pretends to for engagement.

dudeinjapan 4y ago

I'm gonna be a contrarian here and say I'm genuinely excited to see what Yeezy does with the platform, assuming its not just a passing interest. For all his antics, his work in music and fashion is legit, and those two are a large reason people are on social media today. If we required artists be 100% free of mental illness, we would not have Van Gogh, Georgia O'Keeffe, Kusama Yayoi, Michelangelo, Brian Wilson, etc. Let him be him, enjoy what he creates, and take it all with a grain of salt.

diceduckmonk 4y ago
There's even a word for this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art Just learned about this at the Mori Art Museum, since your username is dudeinjapan.
- dudeinjapan 4y ago
  Funny thing I just learned the same a few days ago, but I think through a click-chain beginning on HN. Been awhile since I was last at Mori Art Museum, they have some good stuff. Many years ago I used to volunteer there giving tours for learning disabled young adults. Recommend to check out the Museum of Contemporary Art Tokyo (MOT), they have some killer exhibits, I've been to nearly every one the last few years.
  - diceduckmonk 4y ago
    > Museum of Contemporary Art Tokyo (MOT) I was just there yesterday haha. Glad we agree.
    - dudeinjapan 4y ago
      Nice!! You must have caught the Jean Prouve exhibit on its closing day then. That one was killer, I really enjoyed it with all the actual portable houses setup. Another highlight in this past year was an exhibit the making of the classic Godzilla movies, they had some of the miniature sets recreated.

AzzieElbab 4y ago

Are we going to end up with a social network per celebrity at some point?

diceduckmonk 4y ago

"Great Minds Discuss Ideas. Average Minds Discuss Events. Small Minds Discuss People." I feel there's already disproportionate discussion here about a person and their cult of personality here. This doesn't feel quite in the spirit of HN. Even during the Elon Musk Twitter debacles there was still separate threads about the business dynamics and whether he is playing some kind of 4D chess. The attempts to quickly discredits Ye West's other accomplishment feels borderline like anti-blackness, except with the passive aggressive pretense of being concerned about his mental well-being. For example, Kanye West was part of the Fendi intern cohort which, as a former fashion design student myself, I find to be far more exclusive and prestigious than a Google internship (which I was offered). He's not just a musician but he's behind the scenes for making other established artists including Jay-Z and Beyonce, also billionaires. Even the title of the article being "Kanye West is buying Parler" feels disrespect when he said he goes by Ye, now. This is inconsistent with tech's community plight of respecting self-identification. This is a community to talk about entrepreneurship, so let's talk about that. How are people jumping to the conclusion that he is being "scammed" without even knowing the terms of the deal? On that note, how much do you think this acquisition will go for? I noticed Parler has 3.3K ratings average 3 stars on the IOs App Store and Truth Social has 121k, averaging 4.5 stars. I will go out on a limb and question whether the 4D chess with Twitter and Parler will somehow involve Truth Social / DWAC.

Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
> This is a community to talk about entrepreneurship Entrepreneurship is something you do for a living. A mean to get satisfaction and something you do to feel good. You can have the best numbers but still be despised by the business community because of the way you act, and similarly nobody in the business community would trade places with you despite your amazing numbers because the way you act denotes mental illness. Money is worth nothing if you have mental illness. It's exactly the case for Musk and West.
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monopoliessuck 4y ago

There's a really concerning trend on HN and elsewhere I'm seeing. Everyone now seems to think free speech is too dangerous to try and promote anymore. It's been a shift over a couple years. I'm not supporting Ye or any of his bullshit, but some of the comments on here are really chillingly authoritarian. Parler isn't going to be able to maintain "free speech" even if they or Kanye want it to, which I seriously doubt anyway. They don't "have it now" and they won't have it tomorrow either. Still, it's strange how HN flips so violently against free speech when the content is obviously offensive and low quality. People need to be better stewards of their own beliefs, not simply shielded from malicious, dim or unsavory ones out there in public. As an aside, I can't believe celebrities have the sway they do. Today's breed talks like such imbeciles; I have no idea how they keep people's interest.

shepherdjerred 4y ago
> There's a really concerning trend on HN and elsewhere I'm seeing. Everyone now seems to think free speech is too dangerous to try and promote anymore. What are you thoughts on free speech regarding misinformation or election denial? When so many republican candidates reject the result of 2020, what's the right answer? Allow them to continue to divide the country up until half of the populace no longer trusts the democracy and starts another civil war?
- monopoliessuck 4y ago
  I think mandated information disclosure is extremely important in a capitalist system. How can we make good decisions if we don't have good information? We need to ask more questions, trust, but verify. We do pass laws that require those that sell products and services to disclose X, Y and Z for their products in a standardized and uniform manner. Likewise, we should be skeptical and critical about what others are telling us. Information that's not tied to such a simple tit for tat relationship gets in the weeds though. How do you define "misinformation" as it pertains to your mother on someone's feed? You can claim and sue for damages and if a judge and jury find your case, then that's what it is, but mandating strict systematic moderation of all internet users on social media is not the same as mandating information disclosure for the Kellogs or IKEAs of the world. We've decided that Horseradish dyed green can be sold as Wasabi on the ingredients list. This is officially supported misinformation right? In this instance, election denial is almost complete idiocy, yes, but barring "election denial" wholesale is a terrible thing to do. Your questions are quite leading too. We need more discussion around these topics, not less. I've talked election deniers off their stupid cliffs before. When SCOTUS shot down the Bush v. Gore recount decades ago, Americans had reason to be upset and talk about it. Would it have been more unifying if everyone had just bowed their heads, quickly and quietly, accepting the results without fuss, sure... Censorship is a great tool for quelling public dissent. It's a shortcut around reason though and we've built up these tribal walls that preclude solving problems together. If quieting dissenters is the thing you want to maximize, you'll do great with it. We're not the only ones chomping at the bit to censor those that disagree with us, but I guess be careful what you wish for.

coffeeblack 4y ago

Awesome.

ea550ff70a 4y ago

barbariangrunge 4y ago

PointyFluff 4y ago

And? If I wanted racist-idiot-news, I'd go to reddit.

deleted 4y ago

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citilife 4y ago

I think others may be missing the fact of why Kanye could be buying Parler - Kanye just had his bank account closed by JP Morgan (for what appears to be his beliefs) https://www.tmz.com/2022/10/13/kanye-west-bank-jp-morgan-end-relationship-anti-semitic/ https://www.tmz.com/2022/10/13/kanye-west-bank-jp-morgan-end... - Kanye was kicked off instagram & twitter https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kanye-west-instagram-account-restricted-anti-semitic-1234607759/ https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kanye-west-ins... - It's still unclear exactly why both occurred. Supposedly it's antisemitism, but he also just wore a "white lives matter" shirt https://nypost.com/2022/10/07/kanye-west-defends-white-lives-matter-shirt-on-tucker-carlson/ https://nypost.com/2022/10/07/kanye-west-defends-white-lives... The connection between all of this could lead someone to want to buy their own social media company.

zerocrates 4y ago
The whole JP Morgan thing happened before all this, they dumped him back in September. A week or so before even that he was talking about dropping Chase on TV, he was upset at not getting face time with Jamie Dimon, and he'd been mad at them on social media before that. The recent statements about Jews and the "white lives matter" thing are both after that letter. That it was instead retaliation for "his beliefs" is a convenient inference his camp is happy for people to draw though.
AlexandrB 4y ago
> - Kanye just had his bank account closed by JP Morgan (for what appears to be his beliefs) The article quotes Kanye on this one: > "I went to JP Morgan but of course they won't give me no deal flow cause Jin Ulrich is on the board of both adidas and JP Morgan." This sounds like an accusation of conflict of interest. How is this related to his beliefs?
DistractionRect 4y ago
> - It's still unclear exactly why both occurred. Supposedly it's antisemitism, but he also just wore a "white lives matter" shirt Ye saying he's "going to go defcon 3 on the Jews" is absolutely antisemitic and absolutely why he got restricted on Twitter. [0] That's the tweet that was received moderation, and its subject matter is very clear. I don't see how one could be unclear of why that got removed or unclear that's it's antisemitic. Wearing a shirt doesn't magical erase one's behavior. "White lives matter," "All lives matter", it does not matter; what a shirt says won't make his antisemitic comments not antisemitic. Kinda like staring a sentence "I'm not a racist but..." doesn't make whatever racist comment that follows not racist. As an aside him wearing the shirt isn't in support of Jews or white lives, it's him being funny/ironic. Read your own source. When you have a "<minority> lives matter" it's about speaking up for an un/under-represented group. White lives matter is a joke, as they are the majority. To paraphrase your source, it's funny because it's a black man stating the obvious. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/09/entertainment/kanye-west-twitter-account-locked/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/09/entertainment/kanye-west-twit...

unity1001 4y ago

You people are saying how that is crazy or Kanye has gone crazy, having a breakdown etc, but there is a method to the madness: He ran for president in 2020. He has been posturing himself as a conservative since a while. This move fits into that pattern and signals that he is going to go into GOP politics.

balls187 4y ago
That was my thought as well. He is saying outlandish things to poise himself to run for president in 2024. His relationship to Candace Owens is what tipped off his plan to me.
enragedcacti 4y ago
Where does "going death con 3 on jewish people" fall into his grand plan?
- balls187 4y ago
  Courting conservatives. Remember these guys: https://www.splcenter.org/file/15770 https://www.splcenter.org/file/15770
  - shepherdjerred 4y ago
    > Courting conservatives. Equating all conservatives with radial groups is not helpful and only further sows division.
    - balls187 4y ago
      Turning a blind eye to how prevalent radical ideology permeates the conservative base is also not helpful. https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll-61-republicans-still-believe-biden-didnt-win-fair-square-2020-rcna49630 https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll... But you missed my point--by galvanizing the conservative base that is racist, homophobic, sexist, and anti-semetic, it leaves the rest of conservative party with an impossible choice--support a democratic candidate, or vote party line. That is how Kanye is courting conservatives.

999900000999 4y ago

What if your favorite artist didn't die at 27... He becomes Kanye. Apart of this is a challenge to his audience. Do you STILL listen?

AlexandrB 4y ago
Or Leonard Cohen, or Elton John, or David Bowie, or Dave Grohl. Not every artist who gets old becomes a weirdo with bizarre opinions.

glonq 4y ago

If you're an advisor/accountant/manger to Kanye, do you just shake your head and sigh when stuff like this happens? Or maybe they don't give a damn because they are also financially benefiting from this guy's mental illness?

protoc 4y ago

Is there any "normal" content on parler? everything on the front page is right-wing politics