20 ms·

Logseq: Privacy-First, Joyful Platform for Knowledge Management

276 points by cube2222 4y ago

oxff 4y ago
It is so clunky compared to the way I use Obsidian.
cube2222 4y ago
I've started using Logseq only a couple days ago, after having used Bear and Obsidian before. The thing about my note-taking has always been that I'm creating lists with increasingly nested bullet points, with some occasional prose in-between. The problem being that lists go down on the page (as you add new stuff at the top) and get forgotten. I haven't realized - until recently, that is - that outliner tools are actually created for this very use-case. I'm specifically not interested in the knowledge-base use-case. It's more like creating lists with points being current thoughts, topics, and ideas, and the sub-bullets being new realisations/further thoughts about the point, with the list occasionally getting very deeply nested. Something akin to discussing with yourself. Having now given Logseq a try, it looks like it's much closer to the increasingly-nested lists workflow I've been looking for. One of the bigger discoveries was the "turn this block into its own page" command, that kind of made the tool click and is a very good solution for when the lists get too deeply nested. Btw, what do people recommend for sync? I've heard of data-loss being a common problem with standard cloud sync.
- marcosfelt 4y ago
  I just switched over to LogSeq from Roam Research, and I'm using Github for syncing and backup. I wrote a short blog post about it: https://kobifelton.com/notes/freeing-myself-from-roam-research-via-logseq https://kobifelton.com/notes/freeing-myself-from-roam-resear...
  - netcraft 4y ago
    Is there an import from roam?
    - greymalik 4y ago
      Yes: https://nesslabs.com/roam-to-logseq https://nesslabs.com/roam-to-logseq
- lab14 4y ago
  I've been using Workflowy for the last few years. Highly recommended.
  - andrepd 4y ago
    Workflowy is quite nice, but I do worry about it being online unencrypted.
  - chrisweekly 4y ago
    Obsidian's Outliner plugin provides a Workflowy-equivalent UX (as a complement to Obsidian's great UX and massive featureset).
  - ajvs 4y ago
    Used WorkFlowy for about 7 years, dropped it when I got tired of the lack of feature updates, no end-to-end encryption and only Dropbox for automatic backups.
- celdon25 4y ago
  Have you tried syncthing?
  - seandoe 4y ago
    I use syncthing with logseq and I'm pretty happy with the match up. You do have to be careful when you have multiple logseq instances running at the same time. I try to avoid that. I utilize the re-index feature quite a bit too. I love syncthing itself though! I used to use resilio sync and syncthing is so much better.
- uhuruity 4y ago
  Logseq's own sync is now in testing and you can access it if you're a sponsor ($15/month tier). I became one just to try it out. It works fine but has enough bugs that I wouldn't rely on it yet - but they are responsive to fixing the bugs that we report. Just saying this to let you know that their sync is reasonably far along in development and one option would be to wait it out.
  - solarkraft 4y ago
    > $15/month tier Oh my. I've been considering trying it out, but I'm not that high. Sync via Syncthing has problems with conflict resolution, unfortunately (but I think these could be reasonably easily resolved).
    - selykg 4y ago
      These tools are struggling it seems to make money and are forcing some super high prices for syncing. Obsidians sync price is nutty. $15/mo for logseq is equally nutty. I would really urge these companies to try to find a better way. You can’t bend your users over that want seamless sync. Take a little from a larger user base so you aren’t charging so damn much for sync. It’s ridiculous. Charge $12 a year for some common features as a base package. If users want to go higher up add sync at a reasonable price and give them the same features plus sync. Sync pricing shouldn’t subsidize free users, at least in my opinion.
      - cube2222 4y ago
        It's not 15$/mo for sync, though. They're just opening up the closed alpha in stages, from the highest tiers to the lowest. Right now the ones donating 15$/mo have access.
  - greymalik 4y ago
    Try syncing via git: https://github.com/CharlesChiuGit/Logseq-Git-Sync-101 https://github.com/CharlesChiuGit/Logseq-Git-Sync-101
  - ekianjo 4y ago
- noteguy 4y ago
  Have you tried RemNote? Every bullet is a node, so there's no block/page choice to make. The syncing is real-time CRDTs for each bullet, so no conflicts.
  - alfonsodev 4y ago
    If you ignore daily notes view, a block being a bullet being a node it’s all the same model, Roam Research and RemNote? I’m asking in case I’m missing something special that would make me try RemNote.
- lukeh 4y ago
  I’m using a shared iCloud folder. It works OK, occasional data loss though as you point out.
- krageon 4y ago
  Can you not just use git? It's text files after all.
emmab 4y ago
I had two main problems with LogSeq when I used it: 1. Not designed from the ground-up to prevent data loss. Has had data-loss issues in the past. <strikethrough>2. An electron app that doesn't let you open multiple documents at once. (edit: nevermind, seems like they did lots of feature development here)</strikethrough> That said, I don't know of any other good local-first outliners (i.e. like Workflowy).
- cube2222 4y ago
  Re #2, what do you mean? So far I've seen that there are tabs, you can open a document in the sidebar, and you can also open multiple windows.
  - emmab 4y ago
    Oh, nevermind on #2 then. Sounds like they've been doing a lot of feature development.
    - cube2222 4y ago
      FYI, the tabs are a plugin.
karencarits 4y ago
I love LogSeq and am deeply impressed by what they have achieved in very short time. The embedded PDF reader is quite good and the option to add comments directly as blocks is amazing. Making queries is still a bit hard for beginners and not as flexible as in e.g. TiddlyWiki (https://tiddlywiki.com/ https://tiddlywiki.com/), but it is becoming increasingly powerful There are, however, some annoyances left; for example, the support for ordinary checkboxes (not todo elements) is surprisingly limited for a software based on lists
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  There are ordinary checkboxes? I keep sticking LATER on all my entries of todo lists
  - karencarits 4y ago
    Well, yes and no. You can use the todo system, as you mention, by adding TODO or LATER or DOING or something. And in a block, you can also do something like - This is an item * [ ] This is an open checkbox * [X] This is a checked checkbox and it will render as expected. However, you can not write - [ ] This is a checkbox and have it rendered as a checkbox, which I think is a bit strange
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
      Oh I see, that's interesting, I only tested the second approach, that's why I didn't realize you could render actual checkboxes. I just got used to apply LATER everywhere. Thank you for expanding this
ajvs 4y ago
Having used other note taking software for the past decade (in particular outliners) Logseq is my new favourite, I just wish they'd focus on performance issues though. Indexing and general responsiveness slows down massively once you have a few million words stored, and you have to break up your data into many smaller notes or you'll suffer even greater slowdown. Despite this I'm putting up with it at the moment because they seem to be making good progress improving the app and it's open-source unlike many of their competitors.
- somada141 4y ago
  Admittedly poor performance has been my primary gripe in the 7mos I’ve been using LogSeq on a near-daily basis. I dunno whether the issue stems from the usage of Electron or if text-graphs are really so heavy even an M1 can’t cope but personally I’d gladly pay for a freaking subscription if it meant I could navigate between pages without a very noticeable lag
  - knoopx 4y ago
    Rendering is very poorly implemented, and there's also a complete cljs runtime underneath.
  - HungSu 4y ago
    Strongly doubt it's Electron. Opening a Logseq vault in Obsidian feels faster, and Obsidian too is Electron.
koyanisqatsi 4y ago
Is it programmable? Can I write snippets of code within logseq to traverse the graph and aggregate some data? I can imagine combining tensorflow.js with such code to create a personal search engine.
- cube2222 4y ago
  There is a plugin system, so I'd expect you to be able to go crazy with it.
- __jem 4y ago
  It exposes limited scripting in Clojure if you don't to write a plugin in JavaScript. I wouldn't say it's fully programmable but somewhere in-between.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  You can write simplified queries in its own DSL, more complex queries in Datalog and plugins in ClojureScript, JavaScript or Typescript. (The plugin API still feels a little quirky, though)
- bribri 4y ago
  Yes, you can write plugins in typescript to create very powerful integrations like VSCode. I wrote a plugin for openai gpt3 https://github.com/briansunter/logseq-plugin-gpt3-openai https://github.com/briansunter/logseq-plugin-gpt3-openai
- cldwalker 4y ago
  Yep. There's a plugin API, https://docs.logseq.com/#/page/Plugins https://docs.logseq.com/#/page/Plugins, used by 180+ plugins. Logseq can also be scripted from the commandline in node.js with https://github.com/logseq/nbb-logseq#projects-using-nbb-logseq https://github.com/logseq/nbb-logseq#projects-using-nbb-logs.... There are examples for creating a github action, a CLI or creating custom web apps
solarkraft 4y ago
I use Logseq personally and for work almost daily since a year ago or so. It's pretty nice and the "least bad" PKM platform I'm aware of (no mandatory subscription, local data and source availability are important factors). Remember that if you use and like Logseq you can sponsor it: https://opencollective.com/logseq https://opencollective.com/logseq
smeej 4y ago
The one feature that would just MAKE my PKM would be if Logseq could basically do for epubs what it can do for PDFs. I spend hours every day reading epubs, highlighting them, adding notes. It's almost all in KOReader, but it ends up trapped there. When I highlight and annotate PDFs in Logseq, they become connected with allllll my other notes. I even got a system running for scanning paper I receive to PDF, adding an OCR layer, and importing to Logseq. But I spend something like 200x the amount of time reading epubs as PDFs and I haven't found any local/FOSS tool that can bridge this gap.
- oever 4y ago
  Web Annotations would in theory work better for epubs than they do for pdfs. Making web annotations in PDFs is either coordinate based (page + rectangles) or text bases (quoted text). The quoted text in PDFs is error-prone because PDF is a layout format. Text quotations are more precise in epubs. The base url for such annotations should be content-addressable storage, i.e. a hash instead of a plain url.
krono 4y ago
That's a very vague privacy policy[0] with more tracking and analytics than I would have expected for something that claims to be "Privacy-First". I guess it only applies to the users' content. [0]: https://docs.logseq.com/#/page/Privacy%20Policy https://docs.logseq.com/#/page/Privacy%20Policy
- bachmeier 4y ago
  That must be for the original version, which was online. You can download Logseq and use it like any other local app. I don't know how they'd get access to user content.
- uhuruity 4y ago
  To add to the other reply you got, their own sync (which they're testing right now) claims to end-to-end encrypted your data (and, if I recall correctly, filenames/paths too?)
- HungSu 4y ago
  I have to agree. I tried getting LogSeq approved at my workplace for use, and part of its denial is that LogSeq's written privacy policy is so very bad. I hope the team can find someone to improve it.
celeritascelery 4y ago
One of my favorite things about logseq is that it supports org-mode markup syntax. I use it for talking org notes on the go https://coredumped.dev/2021/05/26/taking-org-roam-everywhere-with-logseq/ https://coredumped.dev/2021/05/26/taking-org-roam-everywhere...
- __jem 4y ago
  Wow, thanks so much for sharing this. I just decided to switch my life over to org-roam from Obsidian, and this makes me feel so much less locked into that decision! I decided against Logseq as my primary tool for other reasons, but this is great to know.
andrepd 4y ago
The website is not loading on Firefox, unfortunately.
- sharps1 4y ago
  Loads fine in FF for me (Win11). Try with a separate profile. EDIT: Main website loaded and the Live demo seems to work.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  Works for me with pretty aggressive uBlock settings.
arde 4y ago
Logseq forces to use too many bullets for my linking. I prefer Dendron, although it takes a bit of an effort at first.
- jlkuester7 4y ago
  It does seem like they could benefit from making it an option to not automatically start a new bullet/section when adding a line return. This threw me off at first and it not ideal for everyone's workflows (though, tbh, I eventually realised that making almost everything into nested bullets was actually a very effective way of organizing my information and I have been converted over to loving it!)
- bribri 4y ago
  You can visually hide the bullets btw (Document view).
sharps1 4y ago
This video was helpful for me. There is a lot to unpack here as a beginner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asEesjv0kTs&t=1882s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asEesjv0kTs&t=1882s
ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
If you are looking for a simpler alternative check out Workflowy. Been using them since a long time and never found a reason to switch.
- throwamon 4y ago
  Dynalist is better in almost all respects. It's also by the same creators of Obsidian. In fact one possible con is that development pretty much halted now that they're focused on Obsidian, but it's still perfectly functional and featureful.
  - swah 4y ago
    Workflowy keeps getting releases, I think its a better choice now.
- aussiesnack 4y ago
  I'll put in a word for Checkvist (https://checkvist.com/ https://checkvist.com/). I find it the best of the online outliners, which manages to improve year on year while maintaining its fundamental virtues (notably - it's the most keyboard-centric web app I've used). I noted (with a slight shock!) recently that I've been using it since 2015.
abendy 4y ago
I've been using Logseq for a couple of months. Generally very happy with it. I previously used Roam and prefer the local markdown files vs cloud. What resources do other users find most useful for Advanced Query documentation and discussion? The official documentation is bleak. I've become comfortable with Datascript and for the most part built out what I need. But nearly all of the really helpful insights and tips have come from random gists and forum posts none of which I have seen in any documentation. Most Google searches bring up pages of examples that are exact copy/pastes of other pages, gists...
haolez 4y ago
I'm a convert. It's opinionated, but I gave it a chance and its way of taking notes is better than what I used to do. I'm recalling my own notes a lot more than in the past as well. The sync story is a little clunky, though. For now, I've mounted my Google Drive to a local dir and use that store my Logseq notes.
samsquire 4y ago
Let me share my note taking and journalling approach. I create a GitHub repository and create a markdown file and then I create numbered markdown headings for each entry. For each entry I journal my thought. I try trigger the same idea in myself from reading the thought. When I get to 100-400 entries I create a new repository and repeat the process. My computer journals are all created and published in the open on GitHub you can find links in my profile. I am interested in futuristic computer integrations and parallelism.
- peanut_merchant 4y ago
  Why create a new repo and not a new file? I would have thought it more heavyweight, but maybe it helps organise?
  - samsquire 4y ago
    I figure I have one opportunity to secure a reader who is interested in the journal. I see it as blogging. I update the journal multiple times throughout the day or week. If someone visits only ever once they might not see entries I add during the week. I only share the journal when I fill it up to 100-400.
Barrin92 4y ago
I used Logseq for a while but the big problem I had with it is how strongly it is focused on bullet points. Posting long form text is cumbersome because the default paste just turns everything into lists on newlines, and the performance on blocks of text was bad as well. To the point where it just died when pasting a few paragraphs.
brunoqc 4y ago
I wonder if the sync feature will be open source eventually and allow us to host it. For me the Holy Grail of note-taking app would be: - free and open source - offline first - encrypted sync - collaborative - backlinks and cool things like logseq queries Personally, I wouldn't mind paying but I want to be able to collaborate with anyone. As an example, my mom wouldn't be interested in paying for a software that she would barely use even if it's a software that I can't live without.
- arvigeus 4y ago
  May I recommend motif.land? Not open source yet, but it seem to be ticking all of your checkboxes.
  - brunoqc 4y ago
    Do you know if a mobile app is planned?
    - mfester 4y ago
      Not yet. We do support file sync though (https://motif.land/blog/syncing-text-files-using-yjs-and-the-file-system-access-api https://motif.land/blog/syncing-text-files-using-yjs-and-the...) so you can use your mobile Markdown editor of choice.
- 124816 4y ago
  > wonder if the sync feature will be open source According to [1] they don't plan to open source it due to "business considerations." I'm not against people making a buck, but as far as I understand this isn't permitted by the AGPL, which logseq's current authors are bound to as much as anyone else. (Unless they have all past contributors grant them a secondary license.) It's likely the sync protocol will be reimplemented for self-hosting, but I'd assume the mobile apps will hardcode the server address to encourage use of their paid sync service. 1: https://discuss.logseq.com/t/what-is-the-logseq-open-source-policy/187/4 https://discuss.logseq.com/t/what-is-the-logseq-open-source-...
mudrockbestgirl 4y ago
These types of tools (Roam, Obsidian, Second Brain, etc) get a lot of attention on HN and I've never understood it. It feels like these tools are only being used because they give people a false sense of being in control of their live by digitally hoarding all kinds of stuff even if it's useless. I've done all my planning and note taking using plain text files for years, and never had the need for these complex tools. I tried Roam and Obsidian because of the hype, logging and connecting everything I read for a few months, but then I burned out and realized they don't help me at all. Most of the value from note taking I get is by writing notes, not by managing them or looking them up later. I'd almost never look up stuff again so all this management effort is wasted. And if I need to find something I can either use Google (no need to keep track of links) or it's so obvious that I can do a simple text keyword search through my notes. Can someone explain why these tools are so great?
- knoopx 4y ago
  I have a very bad brain, logseq helps me answer things i would not be able like when was the last time I've seen someone, what are my most frequented places so I can easily recommend when someone asks, know if I already watched a move before renting it or get nearby concerts so I can plan the weekend before it's too late, quickly find tickets i bought half year ago, how much money did I spent the past trip, and all kind of personal information. all in a single place, just one Ctrl-k away. I only store personal info, no blog posts, technical notes or work stuff.
- somada141 4y ago
  I suppose if you never revisit your own notes then yes, there’s no value in these systems. Personally I find myself revisiting old notes rather often for a variety of reasons: - writing annual feedback reports on my peers: by taking brief notes in LogSeq journals tagged with their names I can quickly accumulate feedback on how they did over the year or things they could improve - the above applies to self-assessments which are often required when asking for a raise or promotion in a “ok why? What did you achieve this year?” - solving issues specific to my workplace and workflows: while Google and StackOverflow will likely cover 90% of issues you have an arguably there’s no much value in writing about those solutions I often encounter problems specific to my workplace’s infrastructure or services. Taking notes and writing snippets on those is something I often revisit Top of my head the above reasons make the process worth it for me
arcastroe 4y ago
I know Logseq is intended as an offline-first solution, but I really wish I could self-host it as a website and have all notes saved on my server (as opposed to having to sync with local storage). Looks like there's an open issue on github for the same feature request: - https://github.com/logseq/logseq/issues/4592 https://github.com/logseq/logseq/issues/4592 (but there are currently 1.8k open issues)
- cldwalker 4y ago
  There are two popular ways to publish your graph https://github.com/pengx17/logseq-publish https://github.com/pengx17/logseq-publish and https://github.com/sawhney17/logseq-schrodinger https://github.com/sawhney17/logseq-schrodinger. The first solution has 300+ people publishing their graphs - https://github.com/pengx17/logseq-publish/network/dependents https://github.com/pengx17/logseq-publish/network/dependents
bribri 4y ago
Logseq is fantastic. Highly recommended. I publish my logseq graph online here https://briansunter.com/graph https://briansunter.com/graph
deleted 4y ago
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colinsane 4y ago
a large appeal of making your PKM Markdown-based is that you get data portability and compatibility with multiple tools. don’t dismiss Logseq, but do know it’s more limited than other Markdown PKMs on this angle. i have an ancient PKM that i used to edit with vim. recently i installed Obsidian, Dendron, Logseq and a few others and just hopped between these daily to manage that PKM instead. Logseq’s journalling and time-tracking is a beauty, but you can’t use it on a PKM worked on by other tools without it stripping every blank line from your Markdown files and converting every top-level item to a bullet point. in the end i always return to Obsidian. it plays nicely in any multi-tool environment i’ve dreamt up: it’s super easy to switch to, and a decade from now should i have a reason to, away from.
easygenes 4y ago
I'm currently using Logseq and have tried Obsidian and FOAM. I prefer the outline-based notes and journal-oriented design of Logseq. For me the killer feature is the way it integrates a PDF reader with annotation. I hear some people use Logseq and Obsidian in overlap and jump to Obsidian for long form text entries into their knowledgebase.
- Brajeshwar 4y ago
  Yes, this is kinda me. The beauty of separating the content from the tool helped in switching context and using the right tool for the occasion. Btw, it is also possible to stay with just Obsidian and few good plugins to accomplish the tasks such as Outlining, Mindmaping, and PDF Annotations. Sometimes, I even use iA Writer in focus mode just to keep writing on a particular note. I like this quote I stole from somewhere, “You are only truly digitally free when your notes can stand alone, independent of any one app.”
- examplary_cable 4y ago
  Hey, I'm working on a "outliner" app too. But it's supposed to be more extendable with simple HTML: https://github.com/ilse-langnar/notebook https://github.com/ilse-langnar/notebook
tkk23 4y ago
Is it possible to have 'privacy-first' and to share notes with others or even publish them? It would be nice to discover people who have notes with the same keywords or who have annotated the same sentences in an article. Medium offers some of that but it's only on medium articles, and it's not possible to intersect annotations and notes. E.g. how could I find people who have an 80% overlap of interest in a set of articles that I have curated on some topic?
- ajvs 4y ago
  Hypothes.is or WorldBrain's Memex is what you're looking for (they enable social annotation of the web).
HungSu 4y ago
A significant number of people in the HN community either have ADHD or attributes resembling ADHD. I've personally found browsing websites or even notes in Obsidian to frequently be overwhelming. Switching to an outliner like Logseq really helps ground me and gives my brain room to realign itself on the screen. In particular, being able to click on a single bullet point and make that the app's focus is really the most helpful. If I'm distracted, I have huge struggles remembering what I was looking at before, but with Logseq I can just look at what's focused and I'm good again. List manipulation features feels much better too. I may type a giant pile of bullets in one place and later realise I want them elsewhere. This is possible in Obsidian, but feels better in Logseq, with lots of keyboard shortcuts and mouse shortcuts available.
- jdthedisciple 4y ago
  > A significant number of people in the HN community either have ADHD or attributes resembling ADHD. Care to elaborate how you came to this conclusion?
  - HungSu 4y ago
    Commenters say they do https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27514005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27514005 There are enough people with ADHD posting or commenting that I favour HN for such information and discussion over others https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Adhd&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
rjzzleep 4y ago
Do any of you use emacs org mode/org-roam and share todo's/tasks with other people, e.g. in the family? If so, how do you do it?
Royi 4y ago
While some of the features of LogSeq are great I find it has a major drawback. The MarkDown files it generates aren't compatible with other similar programs (Obsidian for instance). It adds 2 spaces which makes thins incompatible with others. This is the major advantage of Obsidian, it is not too much opiniated about how the RAW file should look. Which makes moving form one editor to other pretty easy.
throwaway81523 4y ago
Is "joyful" the new would-be power word that "delightful" once tried to be? Meh. Instant turn-off.
hans0l074 4y ago
I've started using Slack for this. I send messages to myself. And use the basic formatting to maintain lists, links and such. And various icons (green check mark etc.) to mark something as done, not relevant anymore (strike-through), and just delete things that are no longer useful to me. Of course there are limits on how far back you can go with the free account, but we use it at work as well. So far, it's been really easy - at least for to-do type of things.
telmac 4y ago
Logseq just lost me as a daily user yesterday. I downloaded obsidian after they announced 1.0 and realized they now had plugins for almost everything I was using logseq for (maybe not hierarchy, and outline zooming isn't great) and didn't have incessant bugs I had been putting up with in logseq. It shouldn't take a year to clean up cursor movement.
yewenjie 4y ago
Is LogSeq and org-roam still interoperable in 2022?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
zasdffaa 4y ago
Joyful? I'm not 12, please don't patronise me.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
I use logseq everyday at work and love it. I append tags to many things, when I have to find information regarding a project, I go to the project page and find all the references in there, sorted by time of entry. I also have tags for learning, tags for management, some blocks have multiple tags. In general, it's a powerful worklog that evolves into a knowledge base. Thanks to the tagging system, I actually find what. I'm looking for
milbertson 4y ago
I think the biggest question for my own demographic is whether or not the sync and real-time collaborative features will be included in the open source version. I checked the FAQ, but the wording is not very clear as to whether they will be fully featured and allow full user control over these two critical features

276 points by cube2222 4y ago

oxff 4y ago

It is so clunky compared to the way I use Obsidian.

I've started using Logseq only a couple days ago, after having used Bear and Obsidian before. The thing about my note-taking has always been that I'm creating lists with increasingly nested bullet points, with some occasional prose in-between. The problem being that lists go down on the page (as you add new stuff at the top) and get forgotten. I haven't realized - until recently, that is - that outliner tools are actually created for this very use-case. I'm specifically not interested in the knowledge-base use-case. It's more like creating lists with points being current thoughts, topics, and ideas, and the sub-bullets being new realisations/further thoughts about the point, with the list occasionally getting very deeply nested. Something akin to discussing with yourself. Having now given Logseq a try, it looks like it's much closer to the increasingly-nested lists workflow I've been looking for. One of the bigger discoveries was the "turn this block into its own page" command, that kind of made the tool click and is a very good solution for when the lists get too deeply nested. Btw, what do people recommend for sync? I've heard of data-loss being a common problem with standard cloud sync.

marcosfelt 4y ago
I just switched over to LogSeq from Roam Research, and I'm using Github for syncing and backup. I wrote a short blog post about it: https://kobifelton.com/notes/freeing-myself-from-roam-research-via-logseq https://kobifelton.com/notes/freeing-myself-from-roam-resear...
- netcraft 4y ago
  Is there an import from roam?
  - greymalik 4y ago
    Yes: https://nesslabs.com/roam-to-logseq https://nesslabs.com/roam-to-logseq
lab14 4y ago
I've been using Workflowy for the last few years. Highly recommended.
- andrepd 4y ago
  Workflowy is quite nice, but I do worry about it being online unencrypted.
- chrisweekly 4y ago
  Obsidian's Outliner plugin provides a Workflowy-equivalent UX (as a complement to Obsidian's great UX and massive featureset).
- ajvs 4y ago
  Used WorkFlowy for about 7 years, dropped it when I got tired of the lack of feature updates, no end-to-end encryption and only Dropbox for automatic backups.
celdon25 4y ago
Have you tried syncthing?
- seandoe 4y ago
  I use syncthing with logseq and I'm pretty happy with the match up. You do have to be careful when you have multiple logseq instances running at the same time. I try to avoid that. I utilize the re-index feature quite a bit too. I love syncthing itself though! I used to use resilio sync and syncthing is so much better.
uhuruity 4y ago
Logseq's own sync is now in testing and you can access it if you're a sponsor ($15/month tier). I became one just to try it out. It works fine but has enough bugs that I wouldn't rely on it yet - but they are responsive to fixing the bugs that we report. Just saying this to let you know that their sync is reasonably far along in development and one option would be to wait it out.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  > $15/month tier Oh my. I've been considering trying it out, but I'm not that high. Sync via Syncthing has problems with conflict resolution, unfortunately (but I think these could be reasonably easily resolved).
  - selykg 4y ago
    These tools are struggling it seems to make money and are forcing some super high prices for syncing. Obsidians sync price is nutty. $15/mo for logseq is equally nutty. I would really urge these companies to try to find a better way. You can’t bend your users over that want seamless sync. Take a little from a larger user base so you aren’t charging so damn much for sync. It’s ridiculous. Charge $12 a year for some common features as a base package. If users want to go higher up add sync at a reasonable price and give them the same features plus sync. Sync pricing shouldn’t subsidize free users, at least in my opinion.
    - cube2222 4y ago
      It's not 15$/mo for sync, though. They're just opening up the closed alpha in stages, from the highest tiers to the lowest. Right now the ones donating 15$/mo have access.
- greymalik 4y ago
  Try syncing via git: https://github.com/CharlesChiuGit/Logseq-Git-Sync-101 https://github.com/CharlesChiuGit/Logseq-Git-Sync-101
- ekianjo 4y ago
noteguy 4y ago
Have you tried RemNote? Every bullet is a node, so there's no block/page choice to make. The syncing is real-time CRDTs for each bullet, so no conflicts.
- alfonsodev 4y ago
  If you ignore daily notes view, a block being a bullet being a node it’s all the same model, Roam Research and RemNote? I’m asking in case I’m missing something special that would make me try RemNote.
lukeh 4y ago
I’m using a shared iCloud folder. It works OK, occasional data loss though as you point out.
krageon 4y ago
Can you not just use git? It's text files after all.

emmab 4y ago

I had two main problems with LogSeq when I used it: 1. Not designed from the ground-up to prevent data loss. Has had data-loss issues in the past. <strikethrough>2. An electron app that doesn't let you open multiple documents at once. (edit: nevermind, seems like they did lots of feature development here)</strikethrough> That said, I don't know of any other good local-first outliners (i.e. like Workflowy).

cube2222 4y ago
Re #2, what do you mean? So far I've seen that there are tabs, you can open a document in the sidebar, and you can also open multiple windows.
- emmab 4y ago
  Oh, nevermind on #2 then. Sounds like they've been doing a lot of feature development.
  - cube2222 4y ago
    FYI, the tabs are a plugin.

karencarits 4y ago

I love LogSeq and am deeply impressed by what they have achieved in very short time. The embedded PDF reader is quite good and the option to add comments directly as blocks is amazing. Making queries is still a bit hard for beginners and not as flexible as in e.g. TiddlyWiki (https://tiddlywiki.com/ https://tiddlywiki.com/), but it is becoming increasingly powerful There are, however, some annoyances left; for example, the support for ordinary checkboxes (not todo elements) is surprisingly limited for a software based on lists

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
There are ordinary checkboxes? I keep sticking LATER on all my entries of todo lists
- karencarits 4y ago
  Well, yes and no. You can use the todo system, as you mention, by adding TODO or LATER or DOING or something. And in a block, you can also do something like - This is an item * [ ] This is an open checkbox * [X] This is a checked checkbox and it will render as expected. However, you can not write - [ ] This is a checkbox and have it rendered as a checkbox, which I think is a bit strange
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
    Oh I see, that's interesting, I only tested the second approach, that's why I didn't realize you could render actual checkboxes. I just got used to apply LATER everywhere. Thank you for expanding this

ajvs 4y ago

Having used other note taking software for the past decade (in particular outliners) Logseq is my new favourite, I just wish they'd focus on performance issues though. Indexing and general responsiveness slows down massively once you have a few million words stored, and you have to break up your data into many smaller notes or you'll suffer even greater slowdown. Despite this I'm putting up with it at the moment because they seem to be making good progress improving the app and it's open-source unlike many of their competitors.

somada141 4y ago
Admittedly poor performance has been my primary gripe in the 7mos I’ve been using LogSeq on a near-daily basis. I dunno whether the issue stems from the usage of Electron or if text-graphs are really so heavy even an M1 can’t cope but personally I’d gladly pay for a freaking subscription if it meant I could navigate between pages without a very noticeable lag
- knoopx 4y ago
  Rendering is very poorly implemented, and there's also a complete cljs runtime underneath.
- HungSu 4y ago
  Strongly doubt it's Electron. Opening a Logseq vault in Obsidian feels faster, and Obsidian too is Electron.

koyanisqatsi 4y ago

Is it programmable? Can I write snippets of code within logseq to traverse the graph and aggregate some data? I can imagine combining tensorflow.js with such code to create a personal search engine.

cube2222 4y ago
There is a plugin system, so I'd expect you to be able to go crazy with it.
__jem 4y ago
It exposes limited scripting in Clojure if you don't to write a plugin in JavaScript. I wouldn't say it's fully programmable but somewhere in-between.
solarkraft 4y ago
You can write simplified queries in its own DSL, more complex queries in Datalog and plugins in ClojureScript, JavaScript or Typescript. (The plugin API still feels a little quirky, though)
bribri 4y ago
Yes, you can write plugins in typescript to create very powerful integrations like VSCode. I wrote a plugin for openai gpt3 https://github.com/briansunter/logseq-plugin-gpt3-openai https://github.com/briansunter/logseq-plugin-gpt3-openai
cldwalker 4y ago
Yep. There's a plugin API, https://docs.logseq.com/#/page/Plugins https://docs.logseq.com/#/page/Plugins, used by 180+ plugins. Logseq can also be scripted from the commandline in node.js with https://github.com/logseq/nbb-logseq#projects-using-nbb-logseq https://github.com/logseq/nbb-logseq#projects-using-nbb-logs.... There are examples for creating a github action, a CLI or creating custom web apps

solarkraft 4y ago

I use Logseq personally and for work almost daily since a year ago or so. It's pretty nice and the "least bad" PKM platform I'm aware of (no mandatory subscription, local data and source availability are important factors). Remember that if you use and like Logseq you can sponsor it: https://opencollective.com/logseq https://opencollective.com/logseq

smeej 4y ago

The one feature that would just MAKE my PKM would be if Logseq could basically do for epubs what it can do for PDFs. I spend hours every day reading epubs, highlighting them, adding notes. It's almost all in KOReader, but it ends up trapped there. When I highlight and annotate PDFs in Logseq, they become connected with allllll my other notes. I even got a system running for scanning paper I receive to PDF, adding an OCR layer, and importing to Logseq. But I spend something like 200x the amount of time reading epubs as PDFs and I haven't found any local/FOSS tool that can bridge this gap.

oever 4y ago
Web Annotations would in theory work better for epubs than they do for pdfs. Making web annotations in PDFs is either coordinate based (page + rectangles) or text bases (quoted text). The quoted text in PDFs is error-prone because PDF is a layout format. Text quotations are more precise in epubs. The base url for such annotations should be content-addressable storage, i.e. a hash instead of a plain url.

krono 4y ago

That's a very vague privacy policy[0] with more tracking and analytics than I would have expected for something that claims to be "Privacy-First". I guess it only applies to the users' content. [0]: https://docs.logseq.com/#/page/Privacy%20Policy https://docs.logseq.com/#/page/Privacy%20Policy

bachmeier 4y ago
That must be for the original version, which was online. You can download Logseq and use it like any other local app. I don't know how they'd get access to user content.
uhuruity 4y ago
To add to the other reply you got, their own sync (which they're testing right now) claims to end-to-end encrypted your data (and, if I recall correctly, filenames/paths too?)
HungSu 4y ago
I have to agree. I tried getting LogSeq approved at my workplace for use, and part of its denial is that LogSeq's written privacy policy is so very bad. I hope the team can find someone to improve it.

celeritascelery 4y ago

One of my favorite things about logseq is that it supports org-mode markup syntax. I use it for talking org notes on the go https://coredumped.dev/2021/05/26/taking-org-roam-everywhere-with-logseq/ https://coredumped.dev/2021/05/26/taking-org-roam-everywhere...

__jem 4y ago
Wow, thanks so much for sharing this. I just decided to switch my life over to org-roam from Obsidian, and this makes me feel so much less locked into that decision! I decided against Logseq as my primary tool for other reasons, but this is great to know.

andrepd 4y ago

The website is not loading on Firefox, unfortunately.

sharps1 4y ago
Loads fine in FF for me (Win11). Try with a separate profile. EDIT: Main website loaded and the Live demo seems to work.
solarkraft 4y ago
Works for me with pretty aggressive uBlock settings.

arde 4y ago

Logseq forces to use too many bullets for my linking. I prefer Dendron, although it takes a bit of an effort at first.

jlkuester7 4y ago
It does seem like they could benefit from making it an option to not automatically start a new bullet/section when adding a line return. This threw me off at first and it not ideal for everyone's workflows (though, tbh, I eventually realised that making almost everything into nested bullets was actually a very effective way of organizing my information and I have been converted over to loving it!)
bribri 4y ago
You can visually hide the bullets btw (Document view).

sharps1 4y ago

This video was helpful for me. There is a lot to unpack here as a beginner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asEesjv0kTs&t=1882s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asEesjv0kTs&t=1882s

ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago

If you are looking for a simpler alternative check out Workflowy. Been using them since a long time and never found a reason to switch.

throwamon 4y ago
Dynalist is better in almost all respects. It's also by the same creators of Obsidian. In fact one possible con is that development pretty much halted now that they're focused on Obsidian, but it's still perfectly functional and featureful.
- swah 4y ago
  Workflowy keeps getting releases, I think its a better choice now.
aussiesnack 4y ago
I'll put in a word for Checkvist (https://checkvist.com/ https://checkvist.com/). I find it the best of the online outliners, which manages to improve year on year while maintaining its fundamental virtues (notably - it's the most keyboard-centric web app I've used). I noted (with a slight shock!) recently that I've been using it since 2015.

abendy 4y ago

I've been using Logseq for a couple of months. Generally very happy with it. I previously used Roam and prefer the local markdown files vs cloud. What resources do other users find most useful for Advanced Query documentation and discussion? The official documentation is bleak. I've become comfortable with Datascript and for the most part built out what I need. But nearly all of the really helpful insights and tips have come from random gists and forum posts none of which I have seen in any documentation. Most Google searches bring up pages of examples that are exact copy/pastes of other pages, gists...

haolez 4y ago

I'm a convert. It's opinionated, but I gave it a chance and its way of taking notes is better than what I used to do. I'm recalling my own notes a lot more than in the past as well. The sync story is a little clunky, though. For now, I've mounted my Google Drive to a local dir and use that store my Logseq notes.

samsquire 4y ago

Let me share my note taking and journalling approach. I create a GitHub repository and create a markdown file and then I create numbered markdown headings for each entry. For each entry I journal my thought. I try trigger the same idea in myself from reading the thought. When I get to 100-400 entries I create a new repository and repeat the process. My computer journals are all created and published in the open on GitHub you can find links in my profile. I am interested in futuristic computer integrations and parallelism.

peanut_merchant 4y ago
Why create a new repo and not a new file? I would have thought it more heavyweight, but maybe it helps organise?
- samsquire 4y ago
  I figure I have one opportunity to secure a reader who is interested in the journal. I see it as blogging. I update the journal multiple times throughout the day or week. If someone visits only ever once they might not see entries I add during the week. I only share the journal when I fill it up to 100-400.

Barrin92 4y ago

I used Logseq for a while but the big problem I had with it is how strongly it is focused on bullet points. Posting long form text is cumbersome because the default paste just turns everything into lists on newlines, and the performance on blocks of text was bad as well. To the point where it just died when pasting a few paragraphs.

brunoqc 4y ago

I wonder if the sync feature will be open source eventually and allow us to host it. For me the Holy Grail of note-taking app would be: - free and open source - offline first - encrypted sync - collaborative - backlinks and cool things like logseq queries Personally, I wouldn't mind paying but I want to be able to collaborate with anyone. As an example, my mom wouldn't be interested in paying for a software that she would barely use even if it's a software that I can't live without.

arvigeus 4y ago
May I recommend motif.land? Not open source yet, but it seem to be ticking all of your checkboxes.
- brunoqc 4y ago
  Do you know if a mobile app is planned?
  - mfester 4y ago
    Not yet. We do support file sync though (https://motif.land/blog/syncing-text-files-using-yjs-and-the-file-system-access-api https://motif.land/blog/syncing-text-files-using-yjs-and-the...) so you can use your mobile Markdown editor of choice.
124816 4y ago
> wonder if the sync feature will be open source According to [1] they don't plan to open source it due to "business considerations." I'm not against people making a buck, but as far as I understand this isn't permitted by the AGPL, which logseq's current authors are bound to as much as anyone else. (Unless they have all past contributors grant them a secondary license.) It's likely the sync protocol will be reimplemented for self-hosting, but I'd assume the mobile apps will hardcode the server address to encourage use of their paid sync service. 1: https://discuss.logseq.com/t/what-is-the-logseq-open-source-policy/187/4 https://discuss.logseq.com/t/what-is-the-logseq-open-source-...

mudrockbestgirl 4y ago

These types of tools (Roam, Obsidian, Second Brain, etc) get a lot of attention on HN and I've never understood it. It feels like these tools are only being used because they give people a false sense of being in control of their live by digitally hoarding all kinds of stuff even if it's useless. I've done all my planning and note taking using plain text files for years, and never had the need for these complex tools. I tried Roam and Obsidian because of the hype, logging and connecting everything I read for a few months, but then I burned out and realized they don't help me at all. Most of the value from note taking I get is by writing notes, not by managing them or looking them up later. I'd almost never look up stuff again so all this management effort is wasted. And if I need to find something I can either use Google (no need to keep track of links) or it's so obvious that I can do a simple text keyword search through my notes. Can someone explain why these tools are so great?

knoopx 4y ago
I have a very bad brain, logseq helps me answer things i would not be able like when was the last time I've seen someone, what are my most frequented places so I can easily recommend when someone asks, know if I already watched a move before renting it or get nearby concerts so I can plan the weekend before it's too late, quickly find tickets i bought half year ago, how much money did I spent the past trip, and all kind of personal information. all in a single place, just one Ctrl-k away. I only store personal info, no blog posts, technical notes or work stuff.
somada141 4y ago
I suppose if you never revisit your own notes then yes, there’s no value in these systems. Personally I find myself revisiting old notes rather often for a variety of reasons: - writing annual feedback reports on my peers: by taking brief notes in LogSeq journals tagged with their names I can quickly accumulate feedback on how they did over the year or things they could improve - the above applies to self-assessments which are often required when asking for a raise or promotion in a “ok why? What did you achieve this year?” - solving issues specific to my workplace and workflows: while Google and StackOverflow will likely cover 90% of issues you have an arguably there’s no much value in writing about those solutions I often encounter problems specific to my workplace’s infrastructure or services. Taking notes and writing snippets on those is something I often revisit Top of my head the above reasons make the process worth it for me

arcastroe 4y ago

I know Logseq is intended as an offline-first solution, but I really wish I could self-host it as a website and have all notes saved on my server (as opposed to having to sync with local storage). Looks like there's an open issue on github for the same feature request: - https://github.com/logseq/logseq/issues/4592 https://github.com/logseq/logseq/issues/4592 (but there are currently 1.8k open issues)

cldwalker 4y ago
There are two popular ways to publish your graph https://github.com/pengx17/logseq-publish https://github.com/pengx17/logseq-publish and https://github.com/sawhney17/logseq-schrodinger https://github.com/sawhney17/logseq-schrodinger. The first solution has 300+ people publishing their graphs - https://github.com/pengx17/logseq-publish/network/dependents https://github.com/pengx17/logseq-publish/network/dependents

bribri 4y ago

Logseq is fantastic. Highly recommended. I publish my logseq graph online here https://briansunter.com/graph https://briansunter.com/graph

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colinsane 4y ago

a large appeal of making your PKM Markdown-based is that you get data portability and compatibility with multiple tools. don’t dismiss Logseq, but do know it’s more limited than other Markdown PKMs on this angle. i have an ancient PKM that i used to edit with vim. recently i installed Obsidian, Dendron, Logseq and a few others and just hopped between these daily to manage that PKM instead. Logseq’s journalling and time-tracking is a beauty, but you can’t use it on a PKM worked on by other tools without it stripping every blank line from your Markdown files and converting every top-level item to a bullet point. in the end i always return to Obsidian. it plays nicely in any multi-tool environment i’ve dreamt up: it’s super easy to switch to, and a decade from now should i have a reason to, away from.

easygenes 4y ago

I'm currently using Logseq and have tried Obsidian and FOAM. I prefer the outline-based notes and journal-oriented design of Logseq. For me the killer feature is the way it integrates a PDF reader with annotation. I hear some people use Logseq and Obsidian in overlap and jump to Obsidian for long form text entries into their knowledgebase.

Brajeshwar 4y ago
Yes, this is kinda me. The beauty of separating the content from the tool helped in switching context and using the right tool for the occasion. Btw, it is also possible to stay with just Obsidian and few good plugins to accomplish the tasks such as Outlining, Mindmaping, and PDF Annotations. Sometimes, I even use iA Writer in focus mode just to keep writing on a particular note. I like this quote I stole from somewhere, “You are only truly digitally free when your notes can stand alone, independent of any one app.”
examplary_cable 4y ago
Hey, I'm working on a "outliner" app too. But it's supposed to be more extendable with simple HTML: https://github.com/ilse-langnar/notebook https://github.com/ilse-langnar/notebook

tkk23 4y ago

Is it possible to have 'privacy-first' and to share notes with others or even publish them? It would be nice to discover people who have notes with the same keywords or who have annotated the same sentences in an article. Medium offers some of that but it's only on medium articles, and it's not possible to intersect annotations and notes. E.g. how could I find people who have an 80% overlap of interest in a set of articles that I have curated on some topic?

ajvs 4y ago
Hypothes.is or WorldBrain's Memex is what you're looking for (they enable social annotation of the web).

HungSu 4y ago

A significant number of people in the HN community either have ADHD or attributes resembling ADHD. I've personally found browsing websites or even notes in Obsidian to frequently be overwhelming. Switching to an outliner like Logseq really helps ground me and gives my brain room to realign itself on the screen. In particular, being able to click on a single bullet point and make that the app's focus is really the most helpful. If I'm distracted, I have huge struggles remembering what I was looking at before, but with Logseq I can just look at what's focused and I'm good again. List manipulation features feels much better too. I may type a giant pile of bullets in one place and later realise I want them elsewhere. This is possible in Obsidian, but feels better in Logseq, with lots of keyboard shortcuts and mouse shortcuts available.

jdthedisciple 4y ago
> A significant number of people in the HN community either have ADHD or attributes resembling ADHD. Care to elaborate how you came to this conclusion?
- HungSu 4y ago
  Commenters say they do https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27514005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27514005 There are enough people with ADHD posting or commenting that I favour HN for such information and discussion over others https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=Adhd&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

rjzzleep 4y ago

Do any of you use emacs org mode/org-roam and share todo's/tasks with other people, e.g. in the family? If so, how do you do it?

Royi 4y ago

While some of the features of LogSeq are great I find it has a major drawback. The MarkDown files it generates aren't compatible with other similar programs (Obsidian for instance). It adds 2 spaces which makes thins incompatible with others. This is the major advantage of Obsidian, it is not too much opiniated about how the RAW file should look. Which makes moving form one editor to other pretty easy.

throwaway81523 4y ago

Is "joyful" the new would-be power word that "delightful" once tried to be? Meh. Instant turn-off.

hans0l074 4y ago

I've started using Slack for this. I send messages to myself. And use the basic formatting to maintain lists, links and such. And various icons (green check mark etc.) to mark something as done, not relevant anymore (strike-through), and just delete things that are no longer useful to me. Of course there are limits on how far back you can go with the free account, but we use it at work as well. So far, it's been really easy - at least for to-do type of things.

telmac 4y ago

Logseq just lost me as a daily user yesterday. I downloaded obsidian after they announced 1.0 and realized they now had plugins for almost everything I was using logseq for (maybe not hierarchy, and outline zooming isn't great) and didn't have incessant bugs I had been putting up with in logseq. It shouldn't take a year to clean up cursor movement.

yewenjie 4y ago

Is LogSeq and org-roam still interoperable in 2022?

deleted 4y ago
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zasdffaa 4y ago

Joyful? I'm not 12, please don't patronise me.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago

I use logseq everyday at work and love it. I append tags to many things, when I have to find information regarding a project, I go to the project page and find all the references in there, sorted by time of entry. I also have tags for learning, tags for management, some blocks have multiple tags. In general, it's a powerful worklog that evolves into a knowledge base. Thanks to the tagging system, I actually find what. I'm looking for

milbertson 4y ago

I think the biggest question for my own demographic is whether or not the sync and real-time collaborative features will be included in the open source version. I checked the FAQ, but the wording is not very clear as to whether they will be fully featured and allow full user control over these two critical features