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HHS purchases $290M worth of drugs for nuclear emergencies
- User23 4y agoBe sure to get a vintage print edition that has the schematics to proper scale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_Survival_Skills https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_War_Survival_Skills
- donohoe 4y agoI wonder what members of congress traded on advanced knowledge of this.
- bismuthcrystal 4y agoWhat you mean? Our free markets are efficient and universally fair to all its participants...
- AdamJacobMuller 4y agoProbably most of them. You'll find out in 3 months after they are re-elected.
- verelo 4y agoI mean, as much as one can read into this, I appreciate the preparation.
- ralusek 4y agoAfter almost 3 years of hearing about things our government could have and should have done, it's nice to see a little foresight. That being said, I don't love what the foresight sees.
- cft 4y agoBecause it's time to go to war https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nuclear-war-global-warming_n_828496 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nuclear-war-global-warming_n_...
- artur_makly 4y agoironically.. it seems like just a mild little nuclear winter would offset our increases of global warming. yay!
- thom_ 4y agothis is actually great news for the planet
- willcipriano 4y agoCan't build a nuclear plant, not green enough. Just detonate a couple of fatman's over some population centers.
- thom_ 4y agoFor nuclear winter it would need to be substantially more, and for crop failure necessary for population reduction, a full nuclear exchange
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 748 4y agoThousands of lifes and millions if not billions affected to various degree in order to slightly cool down our planet (I think the point of reducing emissions is not to prevent global warming but to rather keep the air we breathe not too contaminated?)? Jokes aside, maybe the nuclear tests in the 30s,40s and 60s were the reason why the globe has become slightly colder to begin with, and what is being observed now is just out planet recovering from a reasonably rough century of forceful cooling down inflicted by nuclear events?
- amelius 4y agoHmm. This got me thinking. What does the SAS survival handbook say?
- dereg 4y agoIf COVID taught us anything, the government is going to let these drugs expire useless, incinerate them, refuse to replenish them, and import loads of fakes when an actual crisis hits. Snark aside, this may not be the case this time around. Relevant snippet: > 2004 Project Bioshield Act and $290 million in Project BioShield designated funding to purchase this supply of the drug. Amgen will maintain this supply in vendor-managed inventory. This approach decreases life-cycle management costs for taxpayers because doses that near expiration can be rotated into the commercial market for rapid use prior to expiry and new doses can be added to the government supply. I'm guessing $290M covers both the cost of the drugs as well as storage for some number of years. Would be nice to know for how long.
- parker_mountain 4y ago> If COVID taught us anything, when an actual crisis hits. To be fair, nuclear crisis is not at all like COVID. It's one of those things that you can kinda see coming on the horizon. It's increasingly unlikely that, aside from a small scale nuclear attack, nuclear war will spring up without tons of advanced warning; for example, in the forms of degenerating relations between nuclear powers, and saber-rattling. Spending money on up-keep for these drugs isn't the best use of funds, and should only be done during periods of high tension. And yes, as a society, our preparation for a COVID-like event was weak (in the US, in no small part due to Trump's efforts to reverse Obama-era preparations).
- dawnerd 4y agoExcept there are cases where nuclear emergencies do just pop up, take the Sendai earthquake in Japan for instance. Having some of the drugs ready to go seems like a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things.
- ghufran_syed 4y agodo you think the obama administration depleting the stockpile of N95 masks from 2009-2016 made any difference? see section 3 “The Atrophy of Vigilance in the Strategic National Stockpile” https://ethics.harvard.edu/files/center-for-ethics/files/23pandemicpreparedness.pdf?m=1599224522 https://ethics.harvard.edu/files/center-for-ethics/files/23p...
- ekianjo 4y agoGetting ready for nuclear exchange?
- lame-robot-hoax 4y agohttps://globalbiodefense.com/2016/10/11/u-s-invests-amgen-sanofi-countermeasures-radiological-incidents/ https://globalbiodefense.com/2016/10/11/u-s-invests-amgen-sa... Routine
- purple_ferret 4y agoWell if not now, then when? Putin is literally moving his nuclear arsenal into position to turn Ukraine into waste and says he's not bluffing.
- IAmGraydon 4y agoThe nuclear train article that has been going around has been debunked by none other than the Director of the CIA.
- parker_mountain 4y agoProminent news organizations, such as CBS and Newsweek, have reported on the nuclear train (albeit, referring to it as "not independently verified"). If you're going to claim that it was debunked by the Director of the CIA, you're going to need to provide a link, please - ideally to a credible news organization or the CIA itself. I did a quick google and it came up with nothing, so it's very possible I'm not searching in the right way.
- gruez 4y ago> Prominent news organizations, such as CBS and Newsweek, have reported on the nuclear train (albeit, referring to it as "independently verified"). I'm not sure what articles you're referring to, but the first CBS article I found[1] says it could not be "independently verified". >A video shared online of a train in Russia carrying equipment belonging to a Russian military unit that handles nuclear weapons should be taken as a message to the West, a military analyst says. The video, which a U.S. official told CBS News could not be independently confirmed, shows an armored personnel carrier with a cannon attached, as well as another vehicle belonging to the unit, being transported on the train, the analyst said. The newsweek article[2] doesn't mention any sort of verification, and is repeating whatever the polish military analyst says. [1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-nuclear-weapons-train-video/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-nuclear-weapons-train-vi... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/nukes-nuclear-weapon-train-russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-fear-attack-latest-update-1748798 https://www.newsweek.com/nukes-nuclear-weapon-train-russia-u...
- tptacek 4y agoNplate was apparently only approved for this purpose last year, and HHS has been talking about acquiring it since then. That might be the whole story here. If you Google around, you'll find HHS documents from 2021 talking about this allocation.
- lame-robot-hoax 4y agohttps://globalbiodefense.com/2016/10/11/u-s-invests-amgen-sanofi-countermeasures-radiological-incidents/ https://globalbiodefense.com/2016/10/11/u-s-invests-amgen-sa... It looks like they may traditionally buy these types of drugs around this time of the year. Here’s one from 6 years ago.
- victor22 4y agoFollow the money.
- tootie 4y agoI'm sure there was lobbyists involved in this deal but that doesn't make it a bad deal. The drug manufacturer may have been in conversation with HHS about their needs and realized this was an opportunity and capitalized to everyone's mutual advantage. We spent a shitload of money on COVID tests and treatments to the great benefit of everyone.
- _trampeltier 4y agoAsk why Rheinmetall Defence already had the last two years such good very years and who bought all the munition. It's worth a couple of minutes and read the last few annual reports.
- doodlesdev 4y agoGotta have those stocks of Radaway of course. Where are the vaults though? I want to sign up.
- xen2xen1 4y agoNo, no you don't.
- supperrtadderr 4y agoAren't like 95% of the vaults expirements?
- xen2xen1 4y agoYes, IIRC all but 76 were, and that's only because they wanted 76, as MMO, to be neutral. All the others were.
- olivermarks 4y agoI'm appalled after decades of massive anti nuclear war protests and shuttle diplomacy that our 'leaders' are now almost casually sliding into the abyss of nuclear wars
- soheil 4y agoIt's also telling to read the top two tone-deaf comments here on HN talking about preparedness as if one is going on a fishing expedition instead of addressing the elephant in the room that is potential nuclear war.
- thrillgore 4y agoAgreed, the top comment about the bug out bag is peak HN. Have fun with that buddy. I know a post nuclear war is gonna suck and none of my skills will transfer, I'll just wait to die.
- andrewstuart 4y agoAgreed, but the era of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) deterrent principle has come to an end. Until very recently, everyone agreed that nuclear weapons could not be used because the outcome would be that everyone is destroyed. Putin has ended that era because appears unconcerned by the prospect of MAD. MAD only works if all sides agree that they do not want to be destroyed. Putin appears to not care. So, the equation has changed and we all need to rethink the new equations. It may be as simple as - "there will be a nuclear war because a madman has the keys and is willing to press the button".
- IAmGraydon 4y agoPlease. Putin has not yet launched a nuclear attack, and I can assure you he would have already if he didn't care about MAD.
- javajosh 4y agoYou'll be soooo embarrassed if you're wrong!
- andrewstuart 4y agoPotassium Iodine tablets are he new toilet paper. I guess all those preppers who used to look kinda crazy now looking smart.
- nsxwolf 4y agoWho is going to care about thyroid cancer after this happens?
- wyldberry 4y agoThe people who survive, usually. It's obviously scale dependent, but I can't imagine not wanting this around just in case. Many humans will survive initially and we will need everyone we can to try and find a way to survive.
- smegger001 4y agothe irradiated? lots of people survived in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and had to deal with cancer and other radiation related health issues after.
- nsxwolf 4y agoThat was 2 cities, and there was still the entirety of global civilization still functioning beyond them, providing a means of recovery and a hope for the future.
- smegger001 4y agoGlobal civilization wasn't really still functioning this was the end of WWII. Europe was in shambles and the more industrialized parts having been carpet bombed, the Germans Italians British and French had lost/were losing their empires. China had just been broken first by civil war then by the Japanese. Pretty much the only industrialized nation to come out not broken was the US.
- markus_zhang 4y agoA side question: how does one plan urban surviving? I'm sure even a nuclear war won't wipe out any of the major governments out there so stability would be re-established maybe in a few weeks. But the initial chaos could be deadly to whoever survived the initial blast. Does anyone know where to hide if sirens sound?
- thakoppno 4y agoI would not rule out the chance to preserve a nucleus of human specimens. It would be quite easy at the bottom of some of our deeper mineshafts. Radioactivity would never penetrate a mine some thousands of feet deep, and in a matter of weeks, sufficient improvements in dwelling space could easily be provided possibly for one hundred years. Nuclear reactors could provide power almost indefinitely. Greenhouses could maintain plant life. Animals could be bred and slaughtered. A quick survey would have to be made of all the available mine sites in the country, but I would guess that dwelling space for several hundred thousands of our people could easily be provided. A computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross-section of necessary skills. Of course, it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously. There would be much time, and little to do. With the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present Gross National Product within say, twenty years.
- SteveNuts 4y agoIn 20 years the first generation would be only a couple years into their careers
- 5d8767c68926 4y agoIs this still technically true? Since the movie was released, both sides developed bunker busters to dig deep into fortified military installations. If salt mines did become part of the continuation strategy, you would think they would be likely to be targeted in an exchange.
- whalesalad 4y agoMy tinfoil hat spider sense is tingling with this. If the government wanted 250 mil of anti nuke meds don’t you think they’d keep that quiet? So they are publishing this for… some purpose, but I can’t imagine why. Just to cover bases? Just to share news? To drive stock? To scare the public? The list goes on. Someone help me understand the logic behind this maneuver.
- uup 4y agoWhat would be the reason for keeping it secret? Usually, I’d expect the government to be transparent with spending unless it had a reason not to be.
- Huh1337 4y agoI'd expect the government to assure everyone they are taking the appropriate measures even for the most extreme outcomes.
- lame-robot-hoax 4y agohttps://globalbiodefense.com/2016/10/11/u-s-invests-amgen-sanofi-countermeasures-radiological-incidents/ https://globalbiodefense.com/2016/10/11/u-s-invests-amgen-sa... This isn’t new
- rdtwo 4y agoThey should buy them at cost if manufacturing plus small profit only. We shouldn’t pay royalties for drugs that will never be used
- _trampeltier 4y agoIt's just like all military things. It's just an insurance. For ex. all Europe counrys have armys. Most countrys never had a war in the last 50 years and military gear was just used to play war. We in Switzerland paid billions for our F18 jets. They never shot a single shot to an enemy, but still, we pay billions again to buy new F35 jets.
- mrwnmonm 4y agoI love the US
- ericb 4y agoHypothetically, is the solution to give Ukraine their nuclear weapons back? Well, suitable replacements from the US, that is. Since Russia reneged on the protection deal when they were removed, it seems like what they signed is moot. From a game theory perspective, doesn't this restore MAD?
- vorpalhex 4y agoThe trust barrier for holding onto nuclear weapons is much higher than the trust barrier for artillery. Ukraine has a history of corruption and bribery issues. The current regime seems fine but 20 years from now?
- Consultant32452 4y agoFor most of the war only about 30-40% of the arms we sent actually made it to the war effort. The rest appears to have been sold off to the black market. That doesn't seem fine to me. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-military-aid-weapons-front-lines/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-military-aid-weapons-fr... >Back in April, he estimated that just "30-40%" of the supplies coming across the border reached its final destination. But he says the situation has significantly improved since then and a much larger quantity now gets where it's supposed to go.
- vorpalhex 4y agoBoth your statement and your quote are misleading. That estimate is from Jonas Ohman, a CEO of a Lithuanian charity, and it's estimate from back in April. That is not a figure with any authority. Also, > Ohman relies largely on unofficial channels to deliver his supplies
- remarkEon 4y ago> Ohman relies largely on unofficial channels to deliver his supplies And this statement is supposed to mean what? That actual deliveries are higher than 30-40%? It's just a guess at this point for how many weapons actually reach Ukrainians who are actually fighting.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- typeofhuman 4y ago
- wds 4y agoThank god the USA is in-between Russia and Ukraine...
- bm3719 4y agoMy take on the current situation as someone who's watched the conflict since 2014 (both professionally and casually): Russia's nuclear weapons arsenal is serving its intended purpose right now: Scaring Westerners. If you listen to Putin's speeches, he's been remarkably consistent. He cares about Russia's place in the world, addressing how it's not treated as an equal partner (by his and other Russians' measure), the desire for a multipolar world, and general nationalistic sentiments. Nuclear threats raise the ambient level of seriousness with which the general Western public, and by extension its governments, must take Russia. Getting that benefit only costs vocalizing the occasional reminder. So, from a game theoretic perspective, it makes sense to do so. Those purposes aren't served by actually using nuclear weapons.
- 0xblood 4y agoThe problem is that everyone is aware of this, which in turn makes the threat useless - because if everyone agrees that its primary purpose is to scare and not to be used, nobody is scared anymore. This can only be countered by increasing the threat, and there are not so many ways to do it. So we are still quite close to having dramatic consequences that are not primarily intended but more the consequence of still ultimately ignoring the gravity of this all
- rdl 4y agoI carry a pack of KI in my EDC backpack and a second in my checked luggage. I figure with the amount of travel I do, my odds of having "shit pop off" when I'm traveling are pretty high (rather, the odds of it happening are low (<1%/yr, even this year), but if it is happening, it will most likely happen during travel/away from home). I've got an AirBoss gas mask, bug out bag, firearm, 2 weeks of food, 4 weeks of water cached (or more) in a few client offices around the US.
- currenciessfe 4y agoDo you also carry an N95? A Tyvek suit would also help.
- rdl 4y agoI have a packet of KN94 in my pack (more for "required for compliance for covid" randomly happening, but also for this), and some gloves (nitrile 2x and 1x mechanicswear for shooting/climbing/hot/cold). Tyvek suit would be more hassle to carry vs. the benefit than I'm willing to do.
- currenciessfe 4y agoYou can pack it quite small if you never tried, in the size of an average book, maybe less if you vacuum pack it.
- rdl 4y agoYeah, bigger than I'd want to carry in the backpack I carry everywhere which also contains 1-2 laptops, trauma kit, etc. I'd just sacrifice whatever clothing was exposed when it happened. There's plenty of other clothing in the world.
- chiefalchemist 4y agoIt looks like there are grades of Tyvek - similar to masks? - what's the min level you'd recommend?
- diebeforei485 4y agoI'm using an old backpack as an earthquake kit (or for any emergency) and I have some potassium iodide tablets in there just in case. If you're curious about building a kit, I'd consult sf72.org if you're in the Bay Area.
- gilbetron 4y ago"Fortunately" I have a super power now that removes my need for PI tablets!
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- ninefathom 4y agoKI and Prussian blue (both in measured capsule form) are a standard part of my first aid kit. I don't see anything alarming about HHS being prepared; quite the opposite.
- ck2 4y agoWe need to stop hedging for nuclear fallout and treat that like "the end" to force it to be avoided at all costs. Congress has its own nuclear winter resort for billions of dollars. We know that because of the one they retired/declassified, so you can be sure there is a new one for 100 times the price https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greenbrier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greenbrier Putin is definitely going to do something when he feels cornered, who is going to stop him? He's already had everyone against him pushed off buildings.
- graderjs 4y agoYeah well they wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise: The price for Romiplostim (nplate) is around 8000 - 12000 USD.
- javajosh 4y agoThere is a lot to know about nuclear war and how to survive one, and reading the comments there seems to be a lot of ignorance. I'm ignorant too. What I do know is that if things escalate into total nuclear war between the US and Russia it may NOT be the end as we know it. But you should know some things to be prepared. Like where the likely targets are, what kinds of bombs will hit those targets, and the effects of those bombs. It would be helpful to understand a little about practical nuclear fusion and fission, the fission products that plutonium decays into, and how it combines with dust to form fallout. It's good to know what alpha and beta particles are, what gamma radiation is, the impact on the body. I think this is necessary research if you want to make the best decision because, yes, sometimes the government does lie to you (see: Covid PPE lies in 2020) and you have to make your own choices. In the Covid case it was an obvious lie that could be penetrated by understanding the basics of disease transmission and epidemology - stuff you can learn in an evening. I've done a bit of this research, and the odd thing to me is that, from what I've read, potassium iodide (KI) only protects the thyroid from being harmed by I-131. The key question is how the radioactive I-131 gets into your body in the first place. I think its fallout, but I'm not sure. I mean, how could significant amounts of iodine enter your body? You'd have to breath a lot of radioactive dust, and at that point is your thyroid really your primary concern? But there are lots of other questions. Like, why only iodine? Why only protect the thyroid? Because there are other fissile products, and there are many other organs in the body, some of which you need to live. Plus, I-131 is used intentionally as medicine, so why defend so hard against something that is not necessarily even lethal? I don't know the answers, yet. In the interim, one possibility is that KI is a placebo to help people feel like they're "doing something" even though the pill might help defend one very small vulnerability in the pantheon of challenges you face if a nuke goes off nearby (or if fallout sprinkles on you or your house or the farm that grows your food). But honestly, if you're eating fallout dust you're putting a strong beta emitter into your stomach and I'm a little unclear how a well-protected thyroid helps you at that point. Here, I will share some links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine-131 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine-131 (This was the best link to start with on wikipedia to research KI specifically, it turns out.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium-239 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium-239 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission_product_yield https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission_product_yield https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ0wwCb0c8Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ0wwCb0c8Q (Charming 1950's filmreel about basic nuclear fission/fusion concepts and how bombs work) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHBb25lzNVM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHBb25lzNVM (Ted-Ed, basic, short video that basically says, "Get inside and stay there for 24 hours"). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_weapon