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PayPal’s updated acceptable use policy [pdf]
- yieldcrv 4y agowhaaaaaaaaat, liquidated directly from the paypal account, does that mean with connected accounts too?
- ranger_danger 4y agothey're not a bank, so I don't think they can do that.
- seydor 4y agoIn europe, paypal is a bank. Actually, being a bank may mean they are legally not allowed to implement stuff in these terms , as it would be discriminatory, and giving arbitrary fines is certainly not allowed. Anybody know something about this?
- lettergram 4y agoNote: comes into effect Nov 3, 2022 > involve the sending, posting, or publication of any messages, content, or materials that, in PayPal’s sole discretion, (a) are harmful, obscene, harassing, or objectionable, (b) depict or appear to depict nudity, sexual or other intimate activities, (c) depict or promote illegal drug use, (d) depict or promote violence, criminal activity, cruelty, or self-harm (e) depict, promote, or incite hatred or discrimination of protected groups or of individuals or groups based on protected characteristics (e.g. race, religion, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, etc.) (f) present a risk to user safety or wellbeing, (g) are fraudulent, promote misinformation, or are unlawful, (h) infringe the privacy, intellectual property rights, or other proprietary rights of any party, or (i) are otherwise unfit for publication.
- charcircuit 4y agoHopefully that is talking about the messages you can attach to payments and not off platform messages.
- bakugo 4y ago>You may not use the PayPal service for activities that It absolutely does apply to off-platform messages. If, for example, you have a website or other service that takes payments via paypal, it applies to anything said there.
- lethologica 4y ago> in PayPal’s sole discretion So I’m deleting my PayPal account. What do they consider “obscene”. Is it me saying ‘piss’ ‘shit’ or ‘fuck’? Why can’t we have clear guidelines with these things.
- etimberg 4y agoYeah, time to delete my account. I haven't used it in years, so now to ensure I don't use it again
- jerf 4y agoIs the $2500 fee new, or are they just changing the text? If it's new... I would never consider doing business under those terms. Some of those clauses are vague enough that you're all but agreeing Paypal can just take $2500 from you whenever they feel like it. Sure hope they never have any financial issues where $2500 seems a lot more immediately valuable to them than your future patronage.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bakugo 4y agoThis is effectively just another generic "you will not do anything we don't like" clause that allows them to punish you for whatever they want.
- throw_m239339 4y agoExcuse me? How is it even legal for paypal to do that? They are basically fining their customers? Are they going to send debt collectors after them if their paypal balance is negative? This is absolutely insane. Why would anybody want to do business with Paypal now?
- bakugo 4y ago>Why would anybody want to do business with Paypal now? You don't get a choice, there aren't that many alternatives that people trust.
- NoraCodes 4y ago> How is it even legal for paypal to do that? It is part of the user agreement you're required to sign in exchange for being allowed to use their service. It might not be lawful, but you'd have to sue them to find out. > Are they going to send debt collectors after them if their paypal balance is negative? Probably not, but they'd be within their rights to do so. > Why would anybody want to do business with Paypal now? Many people think that their activities will never, under any circumstances, be considered obscene or otherwise objectionable by PayPal. Other people, such as myself, will continue to use it, but will take precautionary measures in order to reduce my exposure to this change.
- unity1001 4y ago> It is part of the user agreement you're required to sign in exchange for being allowed to use their service I don't think such stuff flies in other jurisdictions than the US. Under civil law (ie Europe), what the law dictates defines what you can and cannot do. And contractual agreements can't override that. I very much think that that agreement is not applicable in Europe.
- NoraCodes 4y agoInteresting - I don't see this as legally different to a bank charging overdraft fees, or a credit provider charging late fees, which I presume are possible in Europe?
- AnimalMuppet 4y agoSo, at PayPal's sole discretion, they can decide that something I say is "objectionable", and charge me $2500? That's, um... wow. But courts have sometimes ruled that terms are "unconscionable", even if the user agreed to them. If PayPal starts enforcing this on things that are not clearly over the line, they're going to get sued, and it is not clear that they will win. (They're likely to get sued even if they enforce this on things that are clearly over the line, because this is the US and that's how we roll...)
- bombcar 4y ago“Depict … discrimination .. race” - this read literally would ban you for selling To Catch A Mockingbird via PayPal.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- fox_mulder 4y agoThis is only for Australia. Note the /au after the .com. This does not apply to any other country. Australia has always been very strict on this kind of stuff. The USA Paypal still shows a policy from Sept. 20, 2021 and doesn't even have that paragraph.
- seaourfreed 4y agoPayPal = USA version of China's Credit Score to hurt citizens
- NoraCodes 4y agoI'm fairly certain that the United States has its own version of the credit score system, called a "credit score".
- throw_m239339 4y agoI guess the parent was talking about "China's social credit system" which allegedly doesn't exist in USA, allegedly...
- NoraCodes 4y agoIndeed, I'm just clowning on them a bit to make a larger point. I do think it's important to make a distinction between "a single company can punish you for things they don't like, if you are their customer" and "broad social consensus that a single number represents your worthiness to interact with large swathes of services" - but we have both, already, in the US.
- barbacoa 4y agoI believe GP was referring to china's social credit score.
- 1123581321 4y agoThere is no speech or behavioral weighting in the FICO formula. It’s essentially just balances, credit limits and credit pulls and there is no qualitative evaluation of the institutions involved.
- seaourfreed 4y ago"China's Credit score" really is a "Persecution score". "Credit score" is the lie. It is all about persecution. Now PayPal is going 100 mph at persecution with $2,500 * incidents. Their document says "If you create a message ... unfit for publication". This is a blank check to persecute you (take $2,500 * n) just for non-criminal speech.
- orionblastar 4y agoPaypal limited my account for no reason. They claimed I bought a gun but I own no guns. False positive in their AI routine.
- nxm 4y agoIs buying a gun not allowed in the US all of the sudden?
- onepointsixC 4y agoAccording to some big corps.
- orionblastar 4y agoIt is against the PayPal terms of service to buy a gun or illegal drugs with their services.
- revscat 4y agoPorn is legal, but the credit card companies kicked out PornHub anyway. Not that they have ever been warm to any businesses that involve sexuality.
- undefinedzero 4y agoThey closed my account two years ago because after verifying my identity they figured I was too young when I made it. That must have been over 15 years ago. There are many reports of this happening, including people losing access to the money left in their account.
- opentrap33 4y agoIt's not a mistake. It's a feature, as they say. Paypals goal is to keep your money as long as possible preferably forever. Even if you do eventually get the money back, it is still a win for them since they gained interest on the deposits and were able to use those figures in financial disclosures etc. This is sort of why it is so hard to close your account - they would prefer their number of active users stay artificially high.
- busymom0 4y agoSteps on "How do I close my PayPal account?": https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/how-do-i-close-my-paypal-account-faq1215 https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/how-do-i-close-m...
- SavageBeast 4y agoAre people still using Pay Pal? They were never good when I did the slightest bit of business with them before and in fact they were so bad I decided never to use them again. Today I pay with Apple Pay, Venmo, Zelle, or God forbid one of the credit cards in my wallet. Are merchant accounts so otherwise difficult to get ( Global Payments was dead easy ) that people are still resorting to Pay Pal only? Can someone help me understand how Pay Pay is even still relevant? Ive been living without them for ... a decade? Maybe more? I'm fine over here.
- b0afc375b5 4y agoI've never thought of paypal in the last 5 years, until I had to use it recentrly for sdf.org.
- frizkie 4y agoVenmo is owned by PayPal. PayPal is still the de-facto payment processor for online transactions where buyer/seller protections are desired/required.
- jjulius 4y ago>Today I pay with... Venmo... >Ive been living without [PayPal] for ... a decade? Maybe more? Heh, no you haven't, they own Venmo. >Can someone help me understand how Pay Pay is even still relevant? Because they're popular, and you're still their customer.
- dangrossman 4y agoShopify pays out my app store sales via PayPal every two weeks. I see vendors at local farmer's markets / craft shows / etc using PayPal's card reader to take credit cards in person. Those that use a different brand of reader often still accept Venmo for payment, which is owned by PayPal. I occasionally still use PayPal to pay if I'm shopping at a site I don't know if I should trust.
- 0x38B 4y agoA lot of sellers (especially small sites) use them. I just bought a knitting pattern and the only option was PayPal. I only use them when I have to; I recently had some money waiting for me. When I tapped “accept the money”, PayPal wanted me to sign up for a crypto account with them (!). Later I noticed that there are two identical “accept money” dialogs. The one to send the money to my bank account was down the page, out of sight. I wonder how many have been suckered into signing up for a crypto account with PayPal because of this?
- RichardCNormos 4y agoThere's a point where this needs to stop and we've clearly passed it. The danger of filtering financial transactions through what is effectively a political-correctness proxy is that it inhibits the only practical means we have for peaceful social change. Can you use PayPal to raise money for pro-life causes? For a political candidate who supports restricting transgender surgery for children? What about a news outlet that publishes out-of-mainstream opinions? When the balance of power shifts in the United States, there will be backlash against things like this, and it's not going to be pretty.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- noirbot 4y ago
- gruez 4y ago>Can you use PayPal to raise money for pro-life causes? For a political candidate who supports restricting transgender surgery for children? What about a news outlet that publishes out-of-mainstream opinions? In case you're reading this and think that you don't have to worry about this because this would only affect the right, keep in mind that as recently as a few decades ago LGBT was considered taboo and talking about it would get you sanctioned in society. If something like this was enacted it would be even harder to change the status quo regardless of the side you're on, and most certainly in a way that hurts minorities.
- noirbot 4y agoI can think this is a bad move by Paypal and also think OP's implicit "and thus people working at Paypal should now be harmed for this" as being an insane escalation.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 4y ago
- alfiedotwtf 4y agotHeRe ArE nO use CaSeS for BlOcKcHaIn Narrator: and then there was
- onepointsixC 4y agoIronically one of the most consistent ways to do transaction between exchanges and normal Fiat banks (you know to do anything useful with your currency) is to use paypal.
- noirbot 4y agoYes, but also, if you were taking payments over Paypal, good luck getting people to transfer fiat to ETH or BTC to send to you. I'd rather gamble that Paypal cares enough to look into my HN posts than trying to talk my friends into opening the multiple accounts needed to accept blockchain. I've already lost multiple BTC by forgetting my wallet password in the past, I'm not looking to go back.
- supsep 4y agoChanging PayPal’s database to blockchain isn’t going change anything and I think people (who aren’t invested in crypto) trust more well known organizations for their finances.
- drewrv 4y agoHow does dispute resolution work with blockchain?
- charcircuit 4y agoFor bitcoin disputes are resolved by trusting the longest chain.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Gigachad 4y agoSo I buy a product with bitcoin, and the seller never sends it or they send a fake version, how exactly does trusting the longest chain get the money back in my wallet? This feature is almost the entire value proposition of PayPal.
- motohagiography 4y agoThis isn't based on any principle other than a pretext for exercising their discretion, I wouldn't read too much into it. There's no underlying belief behind it. However, if you really have an objection, cryptocurrencies were literally invented to solve this specific problem.
- rapind 4y agoI feel like I’m the only person who’s completely uninterested in investing in crypto, but at the same time hoping one succeeds at a significant level and does actually solve this problem.
- alwayslikethis 4y agoI don't think investing in it does anything meaningful. It's much more important to start using it. To do this, you only need to buy a small amount (a couple hundred USD is plenty). IMO for real life transactions, Monero is a pretty good choice: - It is not practically traceable like bitcoin or ethereum, which gives plenty of privacy - The community actively fight against attempts at centralization (building ASIC and GPU resistant algorithms) -- most Monero mining power comes from CPUs, which evens the playing field quite a bit [1] - Transaction fees are minimal (typically less than 0.01%) Some services marketed toward privacy-conscious users have started accepting Monero, such as Mullvad VPN [2] 1. https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/faq/#asic-resistance https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/faq/#asic-resistance 2. https://mullvad.net/en/pricing/ https://mullvad.net/en/pricing/
- akimball 4y agoAnd you can back a credit card with Monero. It's a great way to receive payments, easy to spend.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- colejohnson66 4y agoFYI (before misinformation spreads): OP's title is a bit misleading. The $2500 policy has been in effect since at least September 20 of last year. That is not a new change. The new thing is section 5 (regarding "speech") https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/acceptableuse-full https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/acceptableuse-full (archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20221003014408/https://www.paypal.com/us/legalhub/acceptableuse-full https://web.archive.org/web/20221003014408/https://www.paypa... )
- onelovetwo 4y agocomes into effect Nov 3, 2022
- seaourfreed 4y agoPayPal is toxic. Everyone should leave PayPal. When someone asks to send/receive PayPal to them, then I work to move them to Zelle, Venmo, CashApp or some of the others. TransferWise for international. Apple Pay, Samsumg Pay and Google Pay are great competitors. Flee PayPal
- ianbutler 4y agoFYI Venmo is owned by PayPal
- mcdoogal 4y agoVenmo is owned by PayPal
- noirbot 4y agoIsn't Venmo literally the same company as Paypal?
- kombucha13 4y agoYes it is. PayPal owns Venmo.
- Anon4Now 4y agoYes. They're a subsidiary.
- siftrics 4y agoVenmo and Zelle use Plaid which grants them full access to your entire checking account history, even transactions completely unrelated to the payment service. Do not use any service that uses Plaid.
- kccqzy 4y agoI believe the use of Plaid is optional for Venmo. Instead of Plaid, just choose the traditional method of a trial deposit.
- BurningFrog 4y agoHow much of this is "pass through" rules from federal regulators and laws?
- mjfl 4y agowhenever people tell me they don't understand the use for crypto, they don't seem to accept the explanation 'you use it to pay for things over the internet', and they'll point to alternatives, like Paypal. I'm glad that Paypal continues to vindicate crypto's necessity.
- pyuser583 4y agoDo you recommend crypto for people who are technically illiterate?
- drewrv 4y agoWell maybe a trusted third party can make crypto accessible for the masses /s
- Scoundreller 4y agoYou mean like... a marketplace with its own dispute resolution mechanism and reviews of buyers and merchants?
- quickthrower2 4y agoFor payment. Just use your credit card. Most countries have consumer credit protection that is pretty good if you need to get your money back.
- seydor 4y agoeveryone was internet-illiterate once
- Paraesthetic 4y agoExcept Tim Berners-Lee
- weberer 4y agoYeah, I normally just point them to Coinbase.
- raegis 4y agoSince I agreed to this without bothering to read it, do the other services (Venmo, CashApp, Zelle, etc.) have similar provisions anyone knows of? (Apologies in advance for being too lazy to read the agreements myself. And yes, I'm a horrible person for not bothering to read them.)
- bscphil 4y agoSo, it's clear from the text that it needs to be understood in the context of the PayPal User Agreement. I tracked that down assuming that it would limit PayPal's ability to charge you to their actual damages. But no, in fact the text is quite shocking: > If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal’s damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal’s actual damages - including, but not limited to, internal administrative costs incurred by PayPal to monitor and track violations, damage to PayPal’s brand and reputation, and penalties imposed upon PayPal by its business partners resulting from a user’s violation - considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated because, due to the nature of the violations of the Acceptable Use Policy, actual damages would be impractical or extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing balance in any PayPal account you control. [emphasis is mine] As I read this (not a lawyer) PayPal claims that any violation of their acceptable use policy will result in an a̶u̶t̶o̶m̶a̶t̶i̶c̶ charge of $2500 because that represents the "minimum estimate" of the damage your violation causes them. On top of being completely a completely unacceptable policy, the idea that any violation costs them at least $2500 is complete fucking horseshit, if you'll pardon my explicitness. There is absolutely no way I would ever do business with PayPal as a seller under any circumstances, even if it was my customers' preferred method.
- colejohnson66 4y agoThat does not say anything about it being automatic. Just that $2,500 is a "reasonable minimum estimate" (which it obviously isn't), and that PayPal, at their discretion, may impose such a charge on you.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bscphil 4y ago
- seaourfreed 4y agoHere is the EVIL, "{You are...} sending, posting, or publication of any messages, content, or materials, (a) ... are objectionable, ... promote misinformation, ... (i) are otherwise unfit for publication. "...that, in PayPal’s sole discretion..." [Reordered but from their docs]
- quickthrower2 4y agoPayPal acting like a monopoly ... but they aren't. Plenty of other choices. Unless you are an ebay business perhaps.
- devoutsalsa 4y agoI think eBay has distanced itself from PayPal. The last time I sold something on eBay, about three months ago, I did not see PayPal as any part of the sales flow.
- deelowe 4y agoTheir market is pretty big when you include Venmo.
- smeagull 4y agoPeople keep saying Venmo as if its something I should have heard of. Never seen it.
- deelowe 4y agoVenmo is the top mobile payment app and competes with zelle and cash app, for instance.
- quickthrower2 4y agoOutside the US here. Not heard of venmo. I think in Australia throwing a CC on Apple Pay is going to be the most popular mobile payment "app" (although it doesn't need an app, it is very seemless. It is too good! Too little friction to buy stuff)
- finneganscat 4y ago
- kondro 4y agoGood luck making this stick in Australia. Private entities aren't allowed to levy fines or anything that work like fines.
- quickthrower2 4y agoIt'll be the old, PayPal fines you, takes your money, then go find a lawyer or maybe a class action to get it back. I hate banks and bank-like entities ability to have direct access to your money to dip in and grab what they think is theirs. I think there should be laws that keep your funds pure, and if the bank or bank-like wants to charge you, they have to go through the same process as any other business.
- adrr 4y agoSo there are no chargeback fees or penalties in Australia?
- defrost 4y ago(Australian) Consumers can request chargebacks from merchants[1] if the "deal" is on the nose (goods not received, etc) and banks[2] can charge merchants chargeback fees for processing the transaction requested by the consumer. [1] https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/products-and-services/refunds-repairs-and-returns/chargeback https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/products-and-services/refund... [2] https://www.westpac.com.au/content/dam/public/wbc/documents/pdf/bb/360571/MS_Fees_Charges_Brochure.pdf https://www.westpac.com.au/content/dam/public/wbc/documents/... with a carve out I haven't chased down for > Chargebacks are not like the dispute resolution services offered by organisations such as eBay or PayPal.
- adrr 4y agoDo merchants get fined by their processor/card brands for chargebacks? If had an over 1% chargeback in the US, i would get large fines levied against me by the card brands and they may cut off my service. This laid out the contract you sign when accepting credit cards. Paypal is fining sellers who violate their terms which is exactly the same.
- nxm 4y agoBrave new world… you’ll comply or we’ll bankrupt you
- eyelidlessness 4y agoI wasn’t sent this as a PayPal user, regardless of when it would become effective. I recognize it’s hosted by them but it doesn’t appear to be actual policy actually directed at users from what I can tell. Is there some event which gave cause to this being treated as even being effective in the future? Or is it just some file we’re all looking at as if it’s an official finalized document?
- bombcar 4y agoIt may be a seller document. Users don’t have much of PayPal balances to speak of.
- GoldenMonkey 4y agoclosing my paypal accounts asap.
- LexGray 4y agoGood luck. I just tried... "Sorry, there's a problem." Such a dark pattern making cancelation difficult.
- indigodaddy 4y agoIs it legal? And is this relevant to both buyers and sellers or only sellers?
- gnicholas 4y agoA couple thoughts, from a (former) lawyer: • Some are asking about whether this rule implicates off-platform speech. This is not 100% clear to me. It says "you may not use the PayPal service for activities that...involve the sending, posting, or publication of any messages, content, or materials that [are prohibited]". This seems to be far too broad as it relates to the transaction itself, as one of the prohibited categories is "depict or promote illegal drug use". So if you sell a DVD of Trainspotting, then you are using the PayPal service for activities that involve the sending of content that depicts illegal drug use. Get ready to be fined $2,500. You also could not use PayPal to sell a DVD of the movie 42 (about Jackie Robinson), because it "depict[s] discrimination of protected groups or of individuals or groups based on protected characteristics (e.g. race...)". It seems absolutely bonkers to think that using PayPal for these transactions (or the many other examples imaginable) could result in a $2,500 fine. It is unclear how broadly PayPal can sweep in off-platform language. That is, if you have a website that sells all sorts of things, can they claim that you are "using the PayPal service for activities" that break their rules? The fact that this is to be determined "in PayPal's sole discretion" does not bode well for a seller. • This is framed as "liquidated damages", which IIRC are not allowed in some jurisdictions. Liquidated damages basically means "we're just deciding on this amount as a deterrent, not because it relates at all to the harm actually suffered by any of the parties". In general, liquidated damages are disfavored because they discourage so-called "efficient breach" of contracts. This happens when A agrees to paint B's house for $500, but then A gets an offer to paint C's house for $10,000 on the same date. A knows that B can find a replacement painter for $1,000 even at the last minute, so he decides to breach his agreement with B and is willing to pay the actual damages (the extra $500 that B would have to pay) because it is efficient for him to do so, given his ability to earn much more money painting C's house. • This amount that PayPal can deduct under this TOS is not limited to $2,500. That is just the liquidated damages piece. They could claim other, larger damages, though I can't really imagine what that would be. Harm to their reputation? Seems hard to prove.
- throwawaylinux 4y agoYou also couldn't use it in a transaction involving women's sports leagues, which inherently discriminate on the basis of sex or gender. Or universities that discriminate on the basis of race. That said, the policy is obviously not to set out clear and objective criteria that can be understood by the other party or a 3rd party adjudicator, but to create confusion and ambiguity and allow arbitrary and selective enforcement.
- indigodaddy 4y agoWonder if it also includes that they can draw from a debit card account as well. That would be nuts imo.
- systemvoltage 4y agoWho is pushing for implementing this stuff? I can’t imagine this being sole CEO’s decision. Is this the ESG thing? Politicization in the PR department? Public cries? It would be good to dissect the source and where this is originating from within the company.
- simiones 4y agoIt's probably the CYA department (Cover Your Ass).
- newaccount2021 4y ago
- andrewstuart 4y agoImagine starting a new business in payments with a condition like that.
- grensley 4y agoBe really interesting to know how many times they actually do this. Knowing PayPal, they might actually think about enforcing it. Could that even possibly hold up in court?
- 29athrowaway 4y agoWhy is people still using PayPal? Remember what happened to Notch? (Minecraft author)
- bjt2n3904 4y agoWhere are all the "PayPal is a private company, lol they don't have to obey the first amendment, you have no freedom of speech, lol XKCD #1357" bros? Wonder how they feel about this. Wonder if they see any connection between their rampant disdain for a culture of free speech, and where we are now.
- JetAlone 4y agoThey're not bros. They're monsters.
- kdhfkhhhhh 4y ago
- LeicaLatte 4y agoThis is the way
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- kumarski 4y agoMost people never want to acknowledge the sheer scope and scale of Paypal and Square's Cash app's usage as large scale money laundering, drug trafficking, and prostitution tooling. (and much more) They didn't really even try to stop it in the early days. You could setup an injectable immunomodulator merchant account in under 10 minutes with Square. People started entire pill mills using Square and Paypal. It was wild! Similar to Turo who allowed the vehicles of their users to be used by weak KYC'd users. You never knew who was actually driving the vehicle. I had loads of interesting conversations with Ex San Quentin prisoners, was riveting to listen to some of them talk about the crimes committed with all the fintech startups. Everything I thought I knew was wrong. Paypal/Square Mafia's used cheap pension money of VC's to take their vig.
- bogomipz 4y agoWhat is an "an injectable immunomodulator merchant account"?
- kumarski 4y agoSomething that should take longer than a few minutes to setup a merchant account for.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- vorpalhex 4y agoimmunomodulators are a class of drugs, eg steroids. Many users of them need very regular doses, so frequent repeat sales is very explainable. I'm assuming this is used as a cover since it explains away "drug paraphenalia" like needles.
- kumarski 4y agounder any compliant diligent process, it would not take minutes to set this up. CashApp was a haven for criminal leverage of the homestead act-types.
- 4y ago
- lettergram 4y agoThe title change on this definitely removes the context… I don’t really get it. PayPal added this point (coming into effect Nov 2022) and there are large fines for each violation: > involve the sending, posting or publication of any messages, content or materials that, in PayPal’s sole discretion, (a) are harmful, obscene, harassing or objectionable, (b) depict or appear to depict nudity, sexual or other intimate activities, (c) depict or promote illegal drug use, (d) depict or promote violence, criminal activity, cruelty or self-harm (e) depict, promote or incite hatred or discrimination of protected groups or of individuals or groups based on protected characteristics (e.g. race, religion, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation etc.) (f) presents a risk to consumer safety or (financial) wellbeing, (g) are fraudulent, promote misinformation or are unlawful, (h) infringes the intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights of any party or (i) are otherwise unfit for publication.
- fox_mulder 4y agoYou're mixing up two different countries policies. The $2,500 applies to US (and has been around for over a decade), the paragraph you are quoting applies to Australia it's off that countries Use Policy (not the USA). They are not related. Paypal has different policies in different countries.
- SLC-Frank 4y agoOP was a little bit of a doofus to post the link from a country that already has this policy. But it turns out he's directionally right that the United States policy is getting this new language. https://www.paypalobjects.com/marketing/ua/pdf/US/en/acceptableuse-full-110322.pdf https://www.paypalobjects.com/marketing/ua/pdf/US/en/accepta...
- fox_mulder 4y agoWell I looked at the live AUP when I had posted my comment and it had not been changed. Your link just pulls up a blank PDF. Typically they send out an email to sellers every-time they update terms on the site so if they were planning on doing this it never made it to the live site (I never received an email), and they've received a fair amount of backlash at this point so it would appear if they were planning on doing this they've backed down for now.
- pier25 4y agoI absolutely despise PayPal but... I sell stuff on Gumroad as a hobby (synth presets) and initially only had credit card payments via Gumroad. Maybe a year or so after I started my Gumroad shop, a user complained they couldn't pay with PayPal. Not sure why I had assumed this was available... but anyway, I enabled PayPal. Now probably 50% of payments are done with PayPal and I'm selling more than before. I'm also getting more "random" customers that I didn't get before. Before, probably 95% of sales occurred at the peak of a product launch. Since I added PayPal I get a couple of random sales every week with no promotion at all. And it's been like 6 months ago since I launched my last product. My guess is, I'm getting more impulse buys with PayPal.
- Paraesthetic 4y agoWhat synths do you sell for? Link to presets?
- pier25 4y agoU-He Zebra https://www.mercurysounddesign.com/ https://www.mercurysounddesign.com/
- mgbmtl 4y agoCould it be related to the age of buyers? Folks 16-25 usually have a bank account, but may not qualify for a credit card. In my work there was pressure to enable PayPal when Netflix became popular (and they accepted PayPal, but not direct debit, so all the kids had PayPal). These days it seems to have faded. As a payment option, it is really confusing to a lot of less technical people, and most banks here (Canada) offer credit-debit cards by default (except Desjardins).
- pier25 4y agoI make presets for media composers. People working on film and tv. I doubt anyone below 30 bought my presets.
- 4y ago
- seydor 4y ago> depict or appear to depict nudity what in Allah's name is wrong with people these days, it's as if a mind virus has rotten all brains > are otherwise unfit for publication. This is the internet, everything is publishable. How can users + merchants put pressure on these companies to get their head out of their ass? Maybe a mass complete withdrawal of funds will damage their cash reserves? What if we actively start badmouthing them to users and send them to competitors? I am willing to dissuade my game users from using paypal and letting them know about the changes by adding a relevant disclaimer before the payment step. Anobody have a relevant text?
- lgleason 4y agoI've dealt with PayPal's legal department as a potential employee trying to negotiate an employment agreement. I almost walked away from the job because of an unconscionable clause in their legal agreement pertaining to writing tech books in my own time (I live in GA there the California carve outs don't apply) until they finally blinked. In retrospect I should have never taken the job, but that is another story. Their lawyers are snakes and the culture was not much better.
- pfoof 4y agoThere was that guy, from Japan apparently, who wanted to fix this problem but greed overtook humans after 2009
- hknmtt 4y agoonly genx-ers still uses paypal in 2022. i used it once or twice in the past, they scammed me on currency exchange fees so i was done then and there. this company and their business is insanely outdated. how are they still around?
- pessimizer 4y agoVenmo is also Paypal.
- hknmtt 4y agothey also own braintree and some of stripe.
- tpoacher 4y agoPaypal: - introduces a newspeak rule. - encourages others to report violations What's the next step. Gulags?
- tpoacher 4y agooshit ... did I just lose $2,500?? I don't even know! Please don't report me!
- mukundmr 4y agoI was on the fence about closing my account. This was a good motivator to actually do it. It is hard to understand who PayPal is trying to appease.
- DanWritesCode 4y agoI closed my PayPal account years ago as they were constantly withholding my money, charging exorbitant fees, and they attempted to hold a lot of money from my father's business for 6mo whilst they 'investigated' until the threat of legal action suddenly made the problems go away. Everyone should delete their PayPal accounts, and encourage friends/family to do the same. Shocking business practices, and they only continue to do business because they've often been the status quo, but since dropping them I've never once wished I still used it.
- chatterhead 4y agoThere is supposed to be a comma between Pay and Pal.
- fox_mulder 4y agoWorth noting that the posted Acceptable Use Policy is for Australia's Paypal and not any other country (not for the USA). You can tell this because the url is /au after the .com. On USA Paypal it's /us and if you go to the US Paypal and look at their Acceptable Us Policy it hasn't changed since Sept. 20, 2021. So the major change to Prohibited Activities shown in line #5 is limited to Australian users. Which should be no shock considering Australia has been strict about these things for some time, so Paypal is probably changing that to comply with the Australian government laws, way to go Aussies you only continue to allow your government to revert you further backwards. If you aren't operating in Australian, then nothing has changed here. The $2,500 thing has been around for over a decade.
- HereIGoAgain 4y agoIf it wasn't already clear before it should be now. Paypal is a illegitimate scam company. They do the minimum required to keep up appearances but that's about it. Paypal STEALS other people's money all the time. The faster everyone comes to term with this and stops using it, the better!
- asianseed 4y agoUS BANK just sent out letters saying if they made mistakes on your account and you didn’t contact they within 60 days, that’s too bad, the mistake didn’t happen.