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This is probably the only tech acquisition that's ever made me sad. I just hate Adobe so much. The nightmare of their installer, the weird store with horrible d

• Lorin 4y ago
  They ruined Macromedia as well. Fireworks was a fantastic hybrid vector/bitmap editing tool perfect for web work.
  • vyrotek 4y ago
    Indeed. I started using Fireworks during the Macromedia era. I still regularly using my CS6 Fireworks.
  • derefr 4y ago
    Always wondered why an indie app developer hasn't just decided to work their image-editor app up as "the new Fireworks." Many other image-editor apps do now take Fireworks' same non-destructive hybrid editing approach... kind of. But they're always missing one thing or another. Either: 1. they aren't multiplatform (can't get "standard" adoption like Fireworks if you're macOS-only) 2. they don't go far enough with the vector editing capabilities (e.g. Fireworks allows you to apply arbitrary gradients/textures/other image assets as the stroke and fill of vector shapes) 3. they don't go far enough with the non-destructiveness (e.g. Fireworks applies filter-effects to both vector and raster layers, as non-destructive "filter layers" bound to a parent layer — effectively "functional lenses" for images; can edit the base layer "underneath" these transformation layers, and see the transformed output change as a result. Of course, you can always "flatten" the transformations into the layer, to then edit the post-transformed version of the layer. Though IMHO this could be taken even further, with "brush modifications" being just another kind of transformation layer!) 4. they use project file formats that consist of entire directory bundles, or file formats opaque to the OS preview mechanism. Fireworks just stored projects as an extension chunk of a PNG file; and every OS knows how to preview PNG files. (And, if you didn't care about the project, you could just treat the PNG file as a PNG file, putting it through ImageMagick or MSPaint or whatever, which would strip the optional chunks, thus "exporting" the project to PNG without needing the program that created it!)
    • Lorin 4y ago
      I think the next big thing will be SVG tooling - so much untapped power.
      • alluro2 4y ago
        I feel the same way too, but on the other hand, been waiting on it for 10+ years now...
        • droidist2 4y ago
          Inkscape has actually gotten really good since version 1.2 this year.
    • filmgirlcw 4y ago
      I’ve had the same question for years! There are a few tools that have tried over the years, but nothing that has stuck around. And I get that the pixel-perfect design and slicing from the Fireworks era isn’t as useful in today’s world of responsive design and multiple screen sizes and variable screen densities, where CSS and JavaScript plays a much larger role, but I still wish we had a successor. Because as you said, although most apps now do the hybrid vector/faster thing, nothing really matches what we had with Fireworks. RIP Macromedia.
      • chipotle_coyote 4y ago
        The only program I ever used that felt like it was really gunning for Fireworks was, weirdly, a BeOS-exclusive app called e-Picture. It was a little buggy, but still terrific. (That last sentence sums up the entire BeOS ecosystem circa 1999, granted, which was tiny yet still bigger than I suspect most people know.)
    • alcover 4y ago
      Very interesting. I also regret FW fondly. Your post scratches an itch in me and I may be tempted to work on that. Sorry for my laziness to look it up but could you explain "Fireworks just stored projects as an extension chunk of a PNG file" ?
  • animex 4y ago
    I still use my copy of Fireworks for everything graphics related that I need. Yes, it doesn't do everything as well compared to modern suites but the UI was just so easy for a developer to use. Even Homesite is still better than most editors I've ever used.
  • whywhywhywhy 4y ago
    This was already basically Sketch years and years before Sketch even existed. They killed it because Adobe as a company has a complete lack of vision and even understanding of the tools they own.
    • evanmoran 4y ago
      This is 100% right. Fireworks was Sketch with better bitmap/filter/styling support. Removing it was a cost saving move right as Sketch/Figma were coming to own UI design.
  • neosat 4y ago
    Agree. Macromedia products were amazing for their time. Dreamweaver, Flash (Creating flash apps including ActionScript), Fireworks with vector + bitmap, were all very cool until Adobe acquired them
    • 8note 4y ago
      I still see shockwave/director apps around. Still running off of CDs
      • ByThyGrace 4y ago
        The largest Pictionary-like web app for the good part of a decade or so (early 2000s to early 2010s) was a Shockwave/Director app. Newer clones are yet to match its amazing features. Unfortunately isketch.net got too old for the newer generations to pick it up. I can only guess what happened to the site. The technical debt must have been too great to port it to a newer platform, or perhaps the devs/maintainers moved on.
    • timeon 4y ago
      Macromedia Freehand was also nice.
  • zeruch 4y ago
    Fireworks was truly brilliant in its day (and probably still usable now TBH, but I like using archaic tools sometimes for purely artistic reasons). What happened with Macromedia was tragic.
  • scrozier 4y ago
    This. Fireworks was my go-to tool for years. Hit the perfect sweet spot for a semi-professional user. I've not yet recovered from this loss.
  • Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
    To me, Sketch is a spiritual successor of Fireworks. I loved Fireworks, but it had far too many quirks that weren't improved, and when I discovered Sketch I was amazed how many thing that did bother me a lot in Fireworks were made just right in Sketch.
• bearmode 4y ago
  >the difficulty in canceling a subscription Never had an issue with this tbh, it's always very easy. Manage account > cancel plan. Hell, if you subscribe but then cancel within the same day, they give you a full refund. I've abused this a few times if I just need to do something quick - sub, use it for a few hours, cancel, and it doesn't cost me anything.
  • nabaraz 4y ago
    I did a trial of Creative Suite on my mac. When it was time to uninstall, I couldn't do that using Creative Cloud Uninstaller. Because, apparently I have to uninstall photoshop and other softwares from Creative Cloud App before uninstalling CC. I couldn't uninstall photoshop etc. because my login to CC App didn't work. So, I contacted Adobe, there was some issue with getting 2FA to my email for some reason. I had to reset my mac just to get rid of Adobe spywares.
    • synaesthesisx 4y ago
      Yep. And that's why I permanently uninstalled Adobe software in favor of Photopea and similar alternatives.
  • ryeights 4y ago
    Their “yearly plan, billed monthly” with early termination fees is blatantly anti-consumer.
    • bosie 4y ago
      how can you terminate it early?
      • isodev 4y ago
        To cancel a yearly plan, you must a) talk to their support staff (not available as an option in the portal) and b) pay the remainder of the period anyway. The only time you can freely modify your subscription is one month before your renewal date. It's borderline illegal!
• kolbe 4y ago
  Adobe's stock is down 17% on the news. So, it's bad for consumers. Bad for Adobe. Probably only good for the ego of a few executives and investment bankers.
  • paloaltoasshole 4y ago
    good for figma employees, founders and investors
    • atlasunshrugged 4y ago
      Well, good for the founders and investors anyways, who knows how many employees had meaningful holdings that outweigh the hurt of being integrated into Adobe
    • karaterobot 4y ago
      My guess is there are a lot of Figma employees who would rather not be working for Adobe, regardless of whatever incentives they get in the deal. It's hard to overstate how little regard software designers have for Adobe.
      • nyanpasu64 4y ago
        It gives me whiplash to see Sean Parent's deeply technical public talks on Adobe's experiences with C++, and Adobe's disdain for customers (and presumably other programmers' disdain for Adobe).
      • e-clinton 4y ago
        I’m sure they’ll totally fine with in as they cash their massive checks.
        • kolbe 4y ago
          Why do you assume they all get massive checks? Why do you assume they're as materialistic and indifferent to the quality of their work as you?
• yonz 4y ago
  Tried to run away from Adobe and they still got me, RIP... Will have to move again once they ruin Figma with feature overload. Simplicity is so hard to achieve with design and Figma has done a great job striking the balance with feature set and simplicity. All the while delivering a super responsive platform.
• mortenjorck 4y ago
  I can't think of any other company to which my relationship as a customer has swung so completely as Adobe. In the 2000s, their tools were unsurpassed, and I was happy to pay the premium prices they asked (though I'd skip versions to save money). When Creative Suite was discontinued, that was a pretty abrupt turn, as I had no interest in a subscription for software I only used for personal projects. And yet, I stayed on with Lightroom, thinking that so long as Adobe still had competition in that market, they'd keep it a one-off license. Then, one day, upon discovering some compatibility issues with the latest MacOS and the version of Lightroom I was using, I thought I'd check what the latest version of LR had to offer – and discovered it had gone subscription-only as well, meaning my entire photo library would now be trapped on my old laptop unless I paid a monthly fee forever. It was painful researching and trialing alternatives, ultimately migrating my library over to Capture One, but it turned me so completely against Adobe that I've actively requested employers not assign me a Creative Cloud license (the tools fortunately only being tangential to my role).
  • thot_experiment 4y ago
    I can't agree more. I still use an ancient version of photoshop/illustrator sometimes and lemme tell you, the difference in responsiveness is STARK. The problem is largely the entire concept of SaaS, but some stronger anti-trust anti-monopoly laws couldn't hurt either.
    • slantedview 4y ago
      The laws are there but regulators are hesitant to enforce them.
  • patcon 4y ago
    > discovered it had gone subscription-only as well, meaning my entire photo library would now be trapped on my old laptop unless I paid a monthly fee forever. I empathize, but isn't all this the reason they would fork out so much for figma? I mean, people hated them for going subscription with the tools that used to be desktop, but they absolutely adore figma that has never been anything but subscription. It's confusing psychology at play here...
• flashgordon 4y ago
  RIP I wonder if every company Adobe buys is a signal for soon to be hole in the marketplace that might need to be filled?
• prepend 4y ago
  > This is probably the only tech acquisition that's ever made me sad. For me, it was… Atlassian buying HipChat Salesforce buying Tableau Salesforce buying Slack Microsoft buying GitHub (sort of) Alteryx buying Trifacta Oracle buying Cerner
  • magicink81 4y ago
    + Atlassian buying Trello, IMO
  • ngrilly 4y ago
    I’d say the GitHub acquisition is the exception in that list. It seems to go well from my perspective as a user.
    • prepend 4y ago
      I’m not terribly upset because I think it could be worse if others bought them, but I think they’ve stagnated and had lots of stability problems since the purchase.
      • chirau 4y ago
        I don't agree on the 'stagnated' part. A lot has come out of Github since that acquisition. I am actually impressed how it has managed to mature into a fully enterprise grade ecosystem yet somehow maintaining its allure and user friendliness that smaller developer teams enjoy.
        • prepend 4y ago
          I don’t think it’s enterprise at all. I can’t create groups to sync with AD. I can’t link organizations. I can’t link accounts to AD to pull even info like name. They’ve added a lot of “social media” functions like feeds and stuff. I like what they’ve done with Actions though, that’s neat.
  • biztos 4y ago
    Oracle buying Sun? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquisition_of_Sun_Microsystems_by_Oracle_Corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquisition_of_Sun_Microsystem... Has more real value ever been destroyed in the service of paper value? Arguably yes, though I am including DEC in this equation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq#Acquisition_by_Hewlett-Packard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq#Acquisition_by_Hewlett-...
• tristanb 4y ago
  I considered putting Adobe in a VM because i didn't want the 30,000 extra processes running when I install it. Its embarrassingly fragmented and bad. I absolutely dread the moment when I need to install CS on my new machine.
  • joshe 4y ago
    Maybe 15 years ago I ended up fencing the CC stuff off with firewall rules because it was the fastest way to deal with its awfulness. With the next computer for half a year it was always this queasy, i should probably install illustrator now, but once I do I can never go back. Maybe I can hold out another few weeks. This is for a corporate paid for version that would make my work easier. Eventually I buckled and it ruined another computer. 10 years free though!
  • ukyrgf 4y ago
    I went a step further, or maybe backward, and I have a separate computer that I connect to with AnyDesk and it has all the Adobe crap installed on it. Also, our company credit card got replaced, and the process of updating the card and re-activating Creative Cloud took two weeks. It got canceled August 29 and only yesterday, September 14, was I able to launch Illustrator without a nag window. I hate Adobe.
  • wildrhythms 4y ago
    How the hell did Photoshop get so bloated? The featureset hasn't changed all that much since CS3 era, and yet CS3 ran at half the memory and at twice the speed. What the hell happened?
    • supertrope 4y ago
      Adobe Photoshop has always been bloated. It’s the professional standard so artists will literally buy a fast computer just to run it. There’s worse examples of professional software like Autodesk where a workstation class PC is only a fraction of the software licensing cost. And is more crash prone.
      • 4y ago
• esalman 4y ago
  Our university subscribes to Adobe Products Suit- when all of their functionality can be replicated with FOSS. They sent out a survey about this before they started the subscription and I answered negatively to that, to no avail. So that's where our tuition/grant/loan/savings money are going.
  • NegativeLatency 4y ago
    Unless some stuff has changed in the past few years gimp is not a suitable replacement for adobes products.
    • loudmax 4y ago
      University students should be learning the craft, not the tool.
    • spookie 4y ago
      There are a lot more FOSS tools than GIMP. Also, don't criticize the tool for a lack of understanding. You also had to learn adobe tools, after all.
    • epolanski 4y ago
      Arguable. Especially in the context of education.
    • niutech 4y ago
      How about Krita, Inkscape, PenPot? What's wrong with them?
• spaceman_2020 4y ago
  For a large company, they also have pretty shady pricing. Like their “annual plan, paid monthly”. You’d think you’re just paying for the monthly subscription, but they hide the fact that you have to pay a penalty for early cancellation in the fine print. Dishonest, expensive, slow.
  • arcticfox 4y ago
    That pissed me off so much when it got me. I can count the number of dark patterns I've ever fallen for (well, and eventually found out about) on one finger. It's so stupid too, I'm happy paying subscriptions for things and happy paying a fair price but being tricked into doing it - never again, Adobe. They target their own customers with it to scrape a few more dollars into the current quarter, I guess. Probably some executive bonus targets or something.
    • spaceman_2020 4y ago
      Literally the only time I've ever fallen for a dark pattern. Shame that I've managed to avoid the most aggressive dark patterns used by scammers and shady practioners. The one that got me was from a $150B company.
  • lambdasquirrel 4y ago
    There are dark patterns in Adobe's pricing plans up the wazoo. And each year it seems that they change their UI just a little more to try to lock your data into their Creative Cloud. Photoshop now tries to save your files to the Creative Cloud (instead of your computer) by default. I think the concern has definitely gone to an anti-trust level. Adobe packages Lightroom for free with Photoshop, probably with Capture One directly in their sights. Anti-trust definitely needs a reinvigoration.
    • DecoPerson 4y ago
      Sounds like Adobe has taken a page out of Microsoft’s book. That is, defaulting saving to their paid cloud storage solution instead of the user’s local system. It’s a scummy tactic but it must pay if companies keep doing it. I suspect it preys mostly on the vulnerable less-tech-savvy users.
• victornomad 4y ago
  I feel the same :(
• Aperocky 4y ago
  Only open and free software can defeat the likes of Adobe. Can't wait for the dominance of Photoshop to be ended by gimp and ffmpeg, I've found that they work fairly well for whatever editing I need. Maybe open source variety of Figma also exist?
  • robotbikes 4y ago
    The one thing I know about is Penpot see https://penpot.app/ https://penpot.app/ which is by the team that designed Taiga.io - It's fully open-source and I think tries to solve some of the same problems but it's still in beta. I'm not much of a designer but yesterday started to teach myself Figma only to find this acquisition happening. I've resisted installing creative cloud for years and hearing various people's experiences with Adobe makes me feel like this was a wise decision.
  • cercatrova 4y ago
    > Can't wait for the dominance of Photoshop to be ended by gimp Hah, good joke, I've been hearing it for years now.
    • Aperocky 4y ago
      But you're not laughing at ffmpeg. Progress comes in bits and pieces, maybe gimp isn't it, just like GNU Hurd continues to suck, but something will be there eventually.
      • jbc1 4y ago
        How is ffmpeg a photoshop alternative?
        • Aperocky 4y ago
          ffmpeg could be the underlying package for that alternative. and tbf I'm finding ffmpeg very efficient for the kind of editing that I do, and I barely scrape the surface.
      • 4y ago
• time_to_smile 4y ago
  Well if it's any consolation the market also feels sad about this [0]. ADBE is down 15% as of this writing. My guess is because, given the current market, you don't really need to spent money acquiring potential competitors. As rate hikes continue (and likely will for the foreseeable future) I suspect many of the non-ipo's non-profitable startups will just die on the vine. No reason to spend $20 Billion to make sure they're not a threat, this isn't 2018. 0.https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ADBE https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ADBE
  • skinnymuch 4y ago
    That’s because of earnings too. Which includes past and future possible performance.
• optimiz3 4y ago
  Still running Creative Suite 6 in a virtual machine (for security isolation and compatibility) as I only use the product 2-3 times a year and refuse to give in to Adobe's rent-seeking.
• jawadch93 4y ago
  [flagged]
• gherkinnn 4y ago
  This genuinely hurts. Not only is Figma an excellent product, it demonstrates what can be achieved on the web as a platform.
• jawadch93 4y ago
• sixstringtheory 4y ago
  I sympathize with you and agree with everything except this: > the stasis in their … ui I look for that in products I use a lot over long periods of time. I can’t stand when companies are constantly > reworking ui just for the craft of it
• ginger2016 4y ago
  I have an adobe subscription, I never heard of Figma. I am sure their product is great, but it is a niche product. Figma is not worth 20B as a standalone company. Adobe will integrate Figma’s technology into Adobe’s suite of products and will make it available to the masses. I say it is a good thing that Adobe is acquiring Figma. Change is hard; As a Figma consumer you are probably uncomfortable with the change, but Adobe acquiring is better than Figma going shutting down due to lack of mass adoption.
  • papichulo4 4y ago
    Heads up, then, it's the de-facto standard in UX / UI design these days. There are alternatives, but this is the go-to tool people are training on, using at work, etc. It's not some unknown tool that's being saved by Adobe out of obscurity.
  • bbx 4y ago
    > Never heard of Figma > Says it’s a niche product not worth $20B You’re definitely not aware of how Figma changed the game and how essential it is to web design today. Whether you’re a solo designer, a freelancer, a startup, a tech company, a UX team in a major company… Figma just works. And just makes sense. Their velocity is fantastic. They launch features every few months. The performance is incredible. The ease of use is phenomenal. The collaboration capabilities are perfectly integrated. Even developers use it and love it. They have taken the market by storm. And it’s a huge market. You don’t seem to be part of that target market, and that’s fine. But saying Figma joining Adobe is a plus just shows how little you know about Figma and the web design world in general.
    • ginger2016 4y ago
      The thing about Adobe is that their products are used by common people and professionals. I edit 10 of my personal photos a year, still I have an Adobe subscription which includes Photoshop and Lightroom. Had Figma been part of the Adobe Suite I would have at-least downloaded it and tried it. As great as Figma is, reach of their product is limited, Adobe is giving Figma‘s technology the reach they would have never gotten as a standalone company.
• munificent 4y ago
  Every single one of these corporate consolidations makes me sad. Competition and heterogeneity are critical for capitalism to function and everyone one of these mergers reduces it.
• dforrestwilson 4y ago
  Now would be a good time for the regulators to acknowledge that yes, Adobe is a monopoly, and to block this.
  • alwillis 4y ago
    It’s not illegal to be a monopoly; it’s illegal to use your monopoly to profoundly disadvantage your competitors. An example was Microsoft threatening to cancel HP’s Windows license if they bundled Netscape Navigator instead of Internet Explorer back in the browser war days.
• Sakos 4y ago
  Really? I pretty much hate the idea of tech acquisitions entirely now. It generally ends up in the loss of innovation and competition on the market.
• seemaze 4y ago
  This, and every acquisition Autodesk has ever made.
• suyash 4y ago
  Why can't we just have an open source version which is as good if not better?
  • rboes 4y ago
    Because a bunch of unpaid dudes have to write it
    • suyash 4y ago
      how about copying blender business model ?
  • niutech 4y ago
    There is PenPot.app
• terrycody 4y ago
  Its better to be acquired by Google, not Adobe.
• eyelidlessness 4y ago
  This comment makes me sad because Adobe used to be an exceptional example of how good professional software could be, and now I can’t disagree with you at all. I don’t mean to disparage anyone at Adobe, but I think as a business it’s become a place good things get acquired to die.
• pclmulqdq 4y ago
  I'm going to send a letter to the DoJ in the next couple of days about this. I don't like adobe.
• midspectrum 4y ago
  I think with this acquisition - canva is a winner in this space.
• neop1x 4y ago
  Figma was not generating profit and they also started doing some shady practices according to this guy. I was not Figma user so I don't know if that is true but this seems like an interesting video opinion on it https://youtu.be/xpCqZwMekCI https://youtu.be/xpCqZwMekCI