42 ms·

Bikes, not self driving cars, are the technological gateway to urban progress

• BeFlatXIII 4y ago
  Bikes will be adopted once a solution to the "arrive sweaty after hard pedaling" problem is solved.
  • aembleton 4y ago
    E bikes should solve that problem. No longer a need to peddle hard.
• simne 4y ago
  What about rain, snow, ice? Or author think, people should only live on territories of forever summer? Second important question, who will transport goods to shop network? So, unless in some sort of radical concept, like linear city (where all business and most long way transport railroad or water), we should consider large share of automobiles (electro-), at least large part of year.
• falcolas 4y ago
  Not in winter, they aren't. Yes, there are always a few folks who will pull their bikes out in 0°F (-18°C) and go out on icy roads, but they are a vast minority. And a lot of cities in the world experience those kinds of temperatures. Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas.
  • hddherman 4y ago
    Not Just Bikes made a great overview of what makes driving a bicycle in the winter possible: https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU tl;dw: properly designed infrastructure and first-class maintenance results in people actually choosing to opt for the bicycle, even during winter.
  • lthornberry 4y ago
    Cars are also not compatible with many types of disabilities. Cars will need to be part of the transit mix, but they don't need to dominate it.
  • ch4s3 4y ago
    > Yes, there are always a few folks who will pull their bikes out in 0°F (-18°C) and go out on icy roads Luckily this doesn't apply everywhere. > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. Well, sure but neither are the small cars that people often prefer in urban areas. Grade level light rail can be great for accessibility but can be hard to drop in place and expensive. Building out bike infrastructure is pretty cheap and in many circumstances can leave more space for other uses. It's a lot easier to get in and out of a van on a street narrowed for bike lanes, because either traffic will have to wait, or will be slower moving.
    • coolsunglasses 4y ago
      Bro it gets freakin' cold in the winter in Austin, TX and we're further south than Tunis, Tunisia; San Diego, CA; Alexandria, Egypt; Casablanca, Morocco; Tucson, AZ; Basra, Iraq and Osaka, JP. How much further south would you like us to go? Should we conquer Mexico just so we can ride bikes in December? What risks should my very pregnant-for-the-last-three-years wife take? What if we lose a child or for that matter _her_ because she slipped on the ice? How is she going to get groceries for our family of five-soon-six from the grocery store that is miles away from our house? You people don't live where the rest of us live. You're callously indifferent to the pain caused by policy designed to inflict economic damage on the middle class. POSIWID. You hope you can condense the economic violence into the other-world you would prefer to live in. I'm from Ohio where I rode a motorcycle in the dark for my second shifts at the warehouse through the entire winter and I still wouldn't wish bicycling _by necessity_ in the winter here on my worst enemy. Good way to cull the elderly if that's what you're going for. We can't all be healthy 20-something males though.
      • lelandbatey 4y ago
        Overall, we're not trying to force you and everyone else to cut over to bikes tomorrow, since for those individuals like yourself, your environment doesn't support biking at all. Hopefully though, we see a greater focus on building environments where biking does make sense, and less on car-centric living. However, to break down some of the specifics you mentioned: The average low in Austin Texas is 43°F with rare dips below freezing (32°F). Looking at the temperature history for the last winter, Austin saw temperatures drop to freezing on 7 days during December and January[1]. When it's not freezing, at those temperatures, you can absolutely ride a bike safely and comfortably (though you'll need to put on some extra clothing to stay warm). As for your other questions: > What risks should my very pregnant-for-the-last-three-years wife take? She should take the risks she feels comfortable taking. In the opinion of me and my wife (we live in Seattle), we'd feel quite comfy biking in your city (as long as the paths are safe) during any of that weather as long as it's not freezing. If it was freezing and we knew we needed to go somewhere, we'd take a fatbike[2] (yes, that's their unfortunate name, and they work great in snow and ice with their huge tires). > What if we lose a child or for that matter _her_ because she slipped on the ice? That would be tragic, but ice means we all take that risk every time we travel by bicycle or by car. Driving a car on the ice is dangerous, even if driving feels safe and familiar. Thankfully, traveling on a bicycle means you're traveling at lower speeds, so should an accident or slip occur, the likelyhood of serious injury or death is far lower than at high speed in a car. > How is she going to get groceries for our family of five-soon-six from the grocery store that is miles away from our house? Cargo bicycles[3] make getting groceries, even lots and lots of groceries, even transporting small furniture, easy! However, you living many miles from a grocery store does make this all more difficult; I realize that where and what type of housing is available isn't totally up to you. Baked into your comment is the statement of some real facts: that bicycling infrastructure isn't well developed where you live, the entire environment of where you live is built around making transport by car the easiest and often the only available option, and if you tried to adopt it personally now, it would be unfamiliar, dangerous, slow, inconvenient, etc. I think you're right that all those things are true. Trying to convince folks that they should bike to the giant Walmart that's 10 miles away for their daily groceries in the same way they might via a car, that's probably not going to go well, and I don't think it has gone well. That's why most of the constructive discourse I see, like the original article, is focusing on reshaping urban infrastructure around bicyling since that's where the density is. Hopefully we see that happen, and hopefully in the coming decades we see a reduction in investment into car-centric living (huge car-only suburbs with only homes and nothing to walk to for miles around), and an increase into more modest walkable suburbs with greater support for mixed use land (closer grocery stores) and the higher density housing (smaller lot sizes and smaller homes) which provide enough density to support the businesses in those walkable areas. [0] - https://weatherspark.com/y/8004/Average-Weather-in-Austin-Texas-United-States-Year-Round https://weatherspark.com/y/8004/Average-Weather-in-Austin-Te... [1] - https://www.wunderground.com/history/monthly/us/tx/austin/KAUS/date/2022-1 https://www.wunderground.com/history/monthly/us/tx/austin/KA... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatbike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatbike [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike
  • ackfoobar 4y ago
    With the infrastructure it can be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Of course bikes won't be the solution for everyone, but as the saying goes, don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
  • justinator 4y ago
    > Not in winter, they aren't. Like most difficulties with cycling in the cities, the most dangerous part of it are sharing resources with cars. Cycling in the winter isn't so bad if properly dressed. Even now, the cycle paths get plowed before the roads. > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. Totally agree. Most bike infrastructure works well for those with disabilities. The coming goal with bike friendly cities is livable cities for all, and not one that's built for cars first, and people second. It's the same sharedd evil conspiracy agenda. ;)
    • justinator 4y ago
      s/coming goal/common goal/ my apologies.
  • JustSomeNobody 4y ago
    > Not in winter, they aren't. Thunderstorms in Florida, also. Or even just the humidity. If you want to go anywhere looking like you just jumped fully clothed into a swimming pool, sure, go for it.
  • lucideer 4y ago
    Both of your counter examples are minority cases. Motorised vehicles (both public transit & other private/vocational/individual) are a fantastic utility, and one we should never get rid of. The problem is scale: bikes can absolutely supplant a significant portion of current motorised urban transit.
  • moooo99 4y ago
    > Yes, there are always a few folks who will pull their bikes out in 0°F (-18°C) and go out on icy roads, but they are a vast minority. And a lot of cities in the world experience those kinds of temperatures. The majority of population centers are outside of regions with that kind of low temperatures. Even if the temperatures get that low, its usually not for the majority of the year. And cities with well planned out and maintained cycling infrastructure do demonstrate that cycling even with low temperatures is a feasible mode of transportation. > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. Getting rid of cars that don't _need_ to be in a city makes space for cars that do need to be there. Very few people who are seriously debating this topic are for banning every kind of motorized vehicle outright. Obviously there are many cases where cars/trucks are the only feasible/best option, even in a city. Emergency vehicles, delivery trucks or vehicles for people with limited mobility. > We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. Cars are incredibly expensive. They are even more expensive if you have special needs (that is, if your disability even allows you to drive at all). Pedestrianized and bike friendly areas, that often go hand in hand with well designed public transportation infrastructure, are far more accessible than car-centric planning ever could be.
    • mrwh 4y ago
      Indeed! We already have dedicated parking spaces for the disabled. Keep those, get rid of all the others.
    • mattmaroon 4y ago
      Umm no they’re not. And the ones that are just have the opposite problem half the year. Very few cities are in a climate where all but the most hardcore people will want to bike more than half the time. Go down the list of American cities by population. NYC, Chicago, Philly, etc. Not biking in the cold months. Megacities in Texas, Cali, Florida, AZ: not biking in hot months. This might work for Honolulu or San Diego and that’s about it, even if you completely disregard the 50% of the population that couldn’t ride a bike in any weather due to being old, injured, obese, etc. It’s preposterous to think this is an actual solution. Getting rid of cars necessitates some other motorized form of transport from which you can’t easily fall and get injured.
  • thescriptkiddie 4y ago
    Cycling in the winter is fine, actually. Bikes cope with snow and ice better than cars, and the physical exertion keeps you warmer than you would be on foot.
    • dominotw 4y ago
      > and the physical exertion keeps you warmer than you would be on foot. Only if you are not sweating. Once you sweat its game over. You are probably thinking of very short pre sweating distances. Only way to bike moderate to long distance is to dress in layers and shed layers as you get warm and let the moisture get out. You also need moisture wicking base layers and moisture expelling mid layer.
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  • rco8786 4y ago
    Not in summer either. Nobody wants to show up to their destination a sweaty mess.
    • stingrae 4y ago
      hence ebikes.
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  • scarier 4y ago
    I would argue that various forms of cycles (going well beyond the UCI definition of a bicycle, but still using common components powered primarily by a human) are much more compatible with disabilities than cars are. I've seen both double-arm and double-leg amputees cycling, among others.
    • ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
      Cycles (bikes, trikes etc) are sometimes more compatible with disabilities. As they support your weight, they can be better for people with standing/walking issues. Some sight issues can be dangerous for driving, but manageable for cycling (e.g. I'm a bit short sighted which is fine for cycling as if something is too blurry, I can just go closer to it if I need to read something). The ability to come to a stop safely in almost any scenario means that some sufferers of epilepsy can safely cycle whilst being unable or not allowed to drive (here in the UK, I think there's a time limit of something like three years since your last attack).
  • sirmarksalot 4y ago
    A system that requires nearly everyone to drive cars is not compatible with disabilities. If fewer people drive, it frees up road space for people who actually need to drive, as opposed to people who drive because it's the easiest way to get around. Also note that cars are often not a good fit for many kinds of disabilities. Public transit works much better with only minor modifications.
  • agumonkey 4y ago
    Then bike in warm days and other means during winter.
  • teucris 4y ago
    > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. That’s what accessibility-oriented public transit is for. The goal isn’t to replace all transit with bikes; it’s to reduce the dependence on cars by leveraging bikes more to make safer, healthier urban environments.
  • AtlasBarfed 4y ago
    I lived in minnesota, five mile commute. Cold is very very doable. Ice does suck, but that's more of a tire issue. Cold and snow? Eh, bundle up and biking in winter is actually kind of fun. The cold really isn't any different than getting into a cold car in winter. The car warms up when you drive it, you warm up when you ride a bike. Rain really sucks though. I don't have a good solution for rain. What is the best for bike commuting is the lack of aggravation from driving, and knowing that basically no matter what you'll get from X to Y in a known amount of time. There's no traffic jams in bikes, at least not in the US. Oh, aside from security risk, the ability to basically ride directly to where you're going and park RIGHT THERE is the #2 best thing about biking places (#1 being the reduced stress). E-bikes should be even more amazing. I was a triathlete so I was a fit biker and wind/hills didn't bother me, but e-bikes eliminate that for the whole population. What sucks: - securing bikes, they are simply far too easy to steal. I guess in europe and big US cities there are real problems with this: tracker chips don't work, U-locks get shattered with liquid nitrogen, etc. What's nice about e-bikes is that you can get a heavier bike with a bit more security, but still, easy to drive up with van, shatter lock, take bike. - rain, already mentioned - flats are still far too common - bikes aren't really that much of a money saver if you already have a car. They help with stress, fun, exercise, but between bike tuneups and flat tires and other stuff, they aren't really that cheap. Especially once you get into panniers and racks and that type of thing. - drivers and danger in general. Bikes aren't a safe mode of transportation in the US unless you have good dedicated bike paths (Minneapolis is really really amazing for this, I never appreciated it until I moved somewhere else).
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  • xchip 4y ago
    If you have hemorrhoids you also can't use it.
  • fknorangesite 4y ago
    I live in a place where it is very consistently below -20C in the winter. Sure, I'm not going to bike in that (especially +snow), but you know what? Being able to do most of my intra-city travel by bicycle 75% of the year is still a big win over 0%.
  • post_break 4y ago
    Not in summer, they aren't. Arizona, Texas, etc. I don't even ride my motorcycle in the hot months. I just wish we built more European style housing with shops on the bottom floor with housing above it, walk able city blocks, etc.
  • the_gastropod 4y ago
    Why is driving a 2 ton car safer in icy conditions than riding a 20lb bicycle? And the disability thing: there are a wide variety of disabilities. 76% of disabled people are able to ride a bicycle [1]. Only 60% of disabled people are able to drive a car [2]. [1] https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cycling-action-plan-large-print-version.pdf https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cycling-action-plan-large-print-v... [2] https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/freedom_to_travel/data_analysis https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/freedom_to_travel/d...
    • recursive 4y ago
      If a car slides a little in a corner, there's a good chance to correct it. If a bike slides a little in a corner (at least the front wheel) you are definitely going down.
      • the_gastropod 4y ago
        Well, yea—the person inside the 2-ton steel cage is probably going to be fine. It's the nearby pedestrians, cyclists, houses, etc. whose safety I was interested in.
  • whazor 4y ago
    At those very low temperatures, but also at very high hot temperatures, you are basically living like an astronaut. In that case I don't see a way around the car as well. But for disabilities, the infrastructure for bikes is much better accessibility wise. It allows for electric wheelchairs or wheelchairs with handcycles in front. The car roads are often too dangerous or require the ability to drive, whereas a bike path is low-key and allows all kinds of slower traffic.
  • nedt 4y ago
    But for those conditions a car also isn't a good fit. I've seen it in Sweden, where they have snow or ice on the roads for months and they drive Ski-Doos instead. Haven't seen a self driving one yet.
• traverseda 4y ago
  I don't see how I could use a bicycle reliably in my hilly town that gets significant snow fall every winter. Could I please have some kind of electric tuk-tuk instead?
  • timbit42 4y ago
    Check out the Organic Transit ELF or the BetterBike PEBL. Both are enclosed electric trikes with two wheels in front. The PEBL can be winterized by adding a floor and it has reverse.
  • spothedog1 4y ago
    Ebikes are pretty powerful, kinda like riding a smaller motorcycle
    • sokoloff 4y ago
      Power is almost never the limiting factor for snowy hills.
    • traverseda 4y ago
      Sure, add on a third wheel, some thicker tires, and give me a cabin so I don't need to get too rained on and I can probably get rid of my car and borrow one if I need to pick up like a load of plywood or something. Seriously though, a cabin probably won't even add too much weight, make it out of corrugated plastic or something. We already have the technology. #legalize_tuk-tuks
      • Tade0 4y ago
        The final stage of urban vehicular evolution is the golf cart: https://www.golfcartreport.com/top-golf-cart-cities-in-the-united-states/ https://www.golfcartreport.com/top-golf-cart-cities-in-the-u... Personally I wouldn't mind zipping around in this instead of doing manual labour in an awkward position just to move around.
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• PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  1. We still need a way to make deliveries, moving trucks, emergency services, and mobility for disabled people. 2. We will need to radically change how roads are weatherproofed, especially in winter-- snow needs to be cleared fast, salt/sand applications, etc...
  • vidarh 4y ago
    You'd get far by consciously reducing the number of roads where cars have preferential access and high speed limits without banning cars entirely.
  • kennywinker 4y ago
    Canada Post just started an initiative to replace their smaller package trucks with electric trikes. Electric cargo bike delivery is VERY feasible, for everything but inter-city cargo. Even moving vans - my brother used to work for a bike delivery company, and he was able to borrow an electric cargo trike to help my with my last move. It took two loads instead of the one it would have taken with a van, other than that it was entirely painless. Which is not to say that bikes can handle 100% of the tasks, but they can handle much more than you might think.
    • PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      This will not work as well for eg. a thriving restaurant ecosystem, where whole animal carcasses and multiple pallets of produce need to be delivered. There are entire categories of stuff that cities need to thrive that bikes cannot fulfill. When I was talking delivery, I meant commerce-related delivery.
      • kennywinker 4y ago
        And commerce delivery is what the company my brother worked for does. This kind of trike: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/01/10/rad-power-bikes-launches-commercial-division-and-electric-cargo-trike https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/01/10/rad... can handle about 700lbs. You can add powered trailers if you need more in a single delivery, and since they're cheaper than vans to buy and operate, sending two or taking two trips is an option. For probably 70-90% of commercial logistics within a city these will work fine. For the other 10-30%, yeah - we'll still need some vans and trucks around. Some serious rethinking of our needs and expectations around transportation is absolutely required if we're going to cut this climate emergency off at the pass. Businesses can still run fine if their deliveries come twice a day instead of once.
• ck2 4y ago
  In America you can't have the same city supporting 4+ ton SUVs and trucks purposely designed to not see in front of the hood, with bikes. You can't just put unprotected, broken, non-contiguous bike lanes next to traffic and say "there I fixed it". People don't want to bike around in full defense mode paranoid of everyone casually killing them, incredibly stressful.
  • c0nfused 4y ago
    It's have been trying out doing cargo bike pick up for one of my kids from school and I agree. For most people, having someone pass you with less than foot clearance while speeding is the end of the experiment. That said, parking protected bike lanes are a huge boon to bike use. Push for them in your town and people will use the bike lane. There's a group of highschool kids who are doing a bike pool on my morning ride who have showed up now that there is a protected bike lane. The hood height thing is honestly insane. I am over 6 feet high and cannot see over them while standing let alone driving or biking. They seem actually designed as a deniable way to hurt people.
  • svachalek 4y ago
    I've been hit on a bike by cars twice, both times in broad daylight in a bike lane. The second time was when I was just done with that. Drivers just aren't looking for you at all. Thinking about riding a bike in conditions where they might actually have some trouble seeing me is pretty terrifying.
  • twoquestions 4y ago
• ilikeatari 4y ago
  I love biking, and do it even in winter in Minnesota but this is not realistic. Winter riding is hard. Riding with kids is hard too. If you are elderly and have pre existing conditions how are you going to do it? So is this solution just for somewhat fit 15 to 65 somethings that are single and live in a specific urban area that is not too snowy?
  • trgn 4y ago
    Roads are generally very wide in this country. Plenty of space to accommodate both cyclists and cars safely. Cars for those who need it, biking without the threat of getting killed for those who can. It's and/and.
  • makapuf 4y ago
    All of those people are by example rarely seen in the commute trafic. Lots of middle aged single person in a car. Even older / younger ppl can ride a (e)bike when its not too cold/hot. Get rid of heavy traffic, keep the cars for elderly and kids. Or drive them around in taxi/uber / buses. Edit: sp.
  • vitaflo 4y ago
    Or too hilly. Can you imagine everyone being forced to ride bikes in Duluth?
    • rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
      Support ebikes and change infrastructure to make biking safe. People will gradually prefer to ride bikes vs to ride, starting with the most cougareous and fit, but slowly, most people will join. Few young girls were riding bikes in Paris a few years ago and now, it's exploding thanks to ebikes and better infrastructure (simply separate bikes from pedestrians and cars and give bike priority over cars).
• Apreche 4y ago
  For anyone who thinks that winter weather is a problem, see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
  • dymk 4y ago
    I watched the video, and I still think winter (and late fall, and early spring) weather is a problem for biking in the Pacific Northwest. It's just not a pleasant or safe thing to do most of the year. I see a lot of snow in that video, and not a lot of rain. Best of luck biking in sheeting rain.
    • criddell 4y ago
      I'm in central Texas. Winter is (rarely) a problem, but summer is.
      • kennywinker 4y ago
        An ebike can help with that. I have family that live in Joshua Tree and use ebikes for some trips during the summer.
        • criddell 4y ago
          That's great as long as there's a shower at your destination (to deal with road grime, sweat, and sunscreen). I'm fortunate that my office provides showers but a lot don't.
          • kennywinker 4y ago
            road grime, sweat, and sunscreen can be avoided with good clothing choices, and the ebike doing most of the work. You might not want to ride if you're headed to a black tie formal event, but the point is there are plenty of trips where none of these are an issue.
            • 4y ago
• hackernewds 4y ago
  What a privileged and California centric viewpoint - need to be physically able, good weather, flat terrain
  • least 4y ago
    Interestingly, the editor is a founder of a London-based startup for electric cargo bike based logistics in cities, so not exactly California centric.
    • vidarh 4y ago
      London streets are full of delivery drivers on bikes and electric bikes these days. I can't remember the last time my Deliveroo delivery came in a car for example.
    • panzagl 4y ago
      London is even flatter and more temperate than California, hardly invalidates the comment.
  • vidarh 4y ago
    Oslo, Norway was so clogged up by electric kick scooters they had to pass an ordinance to heavily restrict the number. Bikes and scooters are viable as a means to reduce car traffic plenty of places. They can't be the only means of transport, because yes there are people who can't use them, but they can be a significant mode of transport even in far colder places than California. Oslo isn't very hilly, but it's also not flat, and electric bikes and scooters can compensate for a lot of (not all) physical ability challenges.
• twblalock 4y ago
  Go to a shopping center, or a sporting event, or any other place where people publicly gather en masse and ask yourself how many of them could realistically get around on a bicycle. There are a lot of very fat people, old people, disabled people, and so forth who could not ride a bike half a mile. This is ridiculous utopian nonsense. Society is not a blank slate, and we don't get to start over from scratch. We don't get to re-litigate the past and pretend it never happened. Some people seem to think that if something happened for bad reasons 100 years ago, we ought to just undo it, but that is not how the real world works. We have to build on what exists, no matter why or how it got to be that way. We aren't going to rebuild our cities around bikes, and even if we did, a large number of people could not use them. On the other hand, we already built our cities around cars, and self-driving cars would fit right in (if they actually worked).
  • rconti 4y ago
    It's sort of funny that the very reason you cannot get to most of these places by walking or by bicycle is because of the massive seas of concrete that have been built for "convenience". And then you need to walk across them anyway, even if you drive.
  • atdrummond 4y ago
    I’d much rather people who disagree with this point of view dissect it in a reply than reflexively downvote. I personally disagree with twblalock’s conclusions but acting like path dependency isn’t a powerful force reminds me of the kids who stick their fingers in their ear whilst shouting “I can’t hear you!”.
    • mywittyname 4y ago
      • twblalock 4y ago
        > People in agreement with the OP would be better served by someone who starts off acknowledging that biking and public transit work in other places and presenting their objections in that context. Biking and public transit work, in a very small number of very dense places, and people drive cars everywhere else. Even in Europe and Japan, the supposed paradises of public transit, most people own and drive cars daily unless they live in London or Tokyo or other dense cities. Accept that fact, and then you will be arguing in good faith. But to pretend that I'm ignoring some kind of bicycle-friendly paradise in other parts of the world is just silly. The super-dense cities where this works are outliers.
• fnordpiglet 4y ago
  If we could harness the energy spent on talking about bikes replacing cars and convert it into electricity the worlds energy problems would be solved, with extra energy left over for charging self driving cars. This quote demonstrates why this article shouldn’t be read: But human progress is not limited to how complex and powerful our technological artifacts are. What’s happening in the U.S. with abortion laws and gun violence should make this fairly evident. These concepts are entirely orthogonal and there’s nothing evident about how these issues in the US are at all related to technology, cars, progress, or bicycles. And while I’m not one of them an awful lot of folks think the abortion laws are a good thing. This little quote encapsulates the article quality.
  • moooo99 4y ago
    To bad self-driving cars won't be ready when we have to technology to convert talking to electric energy.
    • fnordpiglet 4y ago
      Fair point. Source: I’m on the Tesla self driving beta.
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• entropicgravity 4y ago
  If they ban the IC cars in the city core and cover the streets (because very little poisonous gases) then this could work.
• rco8786 4y ago
  Hard disagree. Fitness and distance aside - it's hot out there y'all. The first world/western world is wholly and fully conditioned to not sweating during the day. There is absolutely zero chance we convince everyone to start riding bikes (with helmets!) in 80+ (27C) degree weather.
  • te_chris 4y ago
    London just had a hot summer and it has both fuck-all AC and I spent most of it commuting by bike. Cars are dumb.
    • rco8786 4y ago
      Yes anecdotes are a thing. My impression was that this post/thread was about massive societal change.
• sh4un 4y ago
• beebmam 4y ago
  I've seen enough of my friends get seriously injured on their bikes by vehicles. No thanks. I'm not riding my bike again on streets until my city starts protecting cyclists. (I'm in the US)
• eric4smith 4y ago
  Just bought a bike in Bangkok. To be honest it sat in my living room for a week because of the fear of riding it on these most dangerous streets. (Bangkok has bad reputation for accidents worldwide). But today I took it out. I rode to work and it was amazing. People here respect two wheels a lot and drivers slow down for you. Normally I’d walk to work for the exercise 3km. Which is about 45 minutes for me each way. But today the riding took about 10-15 minutes with a great cardio workout. I’ll take the bike out most of the week now instead of taking a cab. Here motorcycles are the mainstay. But I’ll stick with my bike for shorter distances and cabs for longer ones.
  • shishy 4y ago
    How's the bike infrastructure there? Do you have lanes / separation from the cars or is it all just one?
    • martopix 4y ago
      Wikipedia has a nice and amusing summary: > The Thai state has failed at promoting utility cycling as a mode of transport.[33] Officials regard bicycles as toys, and cycling as a leisure activity, not as a means of transport that could help solve traffic and environmental problems. Their attitude was on display at Bangkok's celebration of World Car-Free Day 2018, celebrated on 22 September. Bangkok's Deputy Governor, Sakoltee Phattiyakul, who presided over the event, arrived in his official automobile, as did his entourage. He then mounted a bicycle for a ceremonial ride.[34] Prior to the event, which encouraged the non-use of cars, the BMA announced there would be extensive free automobile parking spaces available for participants who were to ride bicycles in the parade.[35] > In his first year office, Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha launched a cycling initiative, encouraging members of the public to cycle. But state investment in cycling lanes ended up a being a waste as they quickly devolved into parking lanes for motorists.[36] All Thai rail companies, whether commuter or long distance, make on-board transport of bicycles difficult or impractical.[34] Without state intervention, direction, and education, the public lacks the impetus to adopt a mode of transport that remains ignored by urban development projects.[33] Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Bangkok#Utility_cycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Bangkok#Utility_c...
• LucasBrandt 4y ago
  Riding a bike doesn't need to be the only or primary way that people get around in every city, all the time, for it to drastically improve quality of life for people living in cities the world over. Most people are capable of riding a bike - especially an e-bike - to get to where they're going. It's cheaper than a car, it can be faster than driving a car, and it is obviously better for both the global climate and the local environment. More than half of all daily trips in the US are less than 3 miles[1]. If cities give people the option to ride a bike for those shorter trips without feeling unsafe, a lot of people will ride bikes to complete those trips. That's shown over and over again. Change is hard, but a future with less cars and more trips by bike and public transportation is better, and possible. [1] https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1230-march-21-2022-more-half-all-daily-trips-were-less-three-miles-2021 https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1230-marc...
  • woevdbz 4y ago
    > Most people are capable of riding a bike - especially an e-bike - to get to where they're going. Citation needed? If I think of my own family, the ones without kids in their teens, 20s, 30s, 40s are ok, but the ones older than that, and the ones with young kids, I would not put on an ebike. [EDIT] Not sure why the downvotes. I'm cycling a lot myself and am a big proponent of cycling. But am no longer able to make this my only means of transportation now that I have kids that are both too old to fit on a baby seat and too young to be going around town on their own. Family members that have respiratory and cardiovascular health problems cannot do sustained even moderate exercise. Populations are aging worldwide. Thus I don't really know that the statement is true and would like to learn more from actual data.
    • henryfjordan 4y ago
      You could use a golf-cart sized vehicle, max speed ~20mph, and fit right in with the flow of bike traffic. So much safer for everyone involved than a car. Would be nice if more cities optimized for golf carts alongside bikes.
      • 4y ago
• thebigjewbowski 4y ago
  I surely can’t be alone in just not picturing myself on a bike… I walk, take public transit, Uber, etc but will often drive myself places a little too far to walk despite the inconvenience of parking when I get back because of it. All it might take to adjust to this is starting to do it… anyone go from bike-curious with an aversion to biking in general to a full blown biker? Also, anyone living in a city with an e-bike: is this very expensive, easily stolen item you have to park outside of a store often stolen? Edit: just to clarify I know you are supposed to use a bike lock but … bikes and tires and whatnot regularly get stolen regardless. Just curious if e-bikes are more of a target.
  • eitally 4y ago
    It's a long game. The right thing to do is to start to shift toward bike-friendliness and bicycle-centric programs and infrastructure projects. Then get the kids on board. Part of this will probably require a rethinking of neighborhood schools vs bussing. Then make it easy for people to live near their jobs, and create incentives for self-propelled & mass transit commuting options. It's a decades-long process.
  • te_chris 4y ago
    Yeah, I wasn't exactly sceptical but didn't really bother because we didn't have anywhere to lock them up. I would say dockless e-bikes were my gateway drug. We lived somewhere the docked (Boris Bikes) scheme didn't go, so suddenly being able to get around with low effort really opened our eyes. Once we got access to a street lockup here in London, my wife and I both bought e-bikes (these ones https://analogmotion.com/ https://analogmotion.com/). We have good insurance and a couple of gold rated locks and so far have managed 2 years with them in London, a city notorious for bike thefts. I don't do everything on the bike, and I don't take it out if I'm going out normally - though the times I have it's been fine/not stolen. It's great. We haven't owned a car in the 7.5 years since we moved here and can't imagine going back to a way of life where we have to.
  • kqr 4y ago
    > All it might take to adjust to this is starting to do it… Nailed it. For a long time, I was an avid user of public transport and I couldn't imagine myself on a bike (nor in a car.) Then life forced me onto the bike and it became the most natural thing in the world. I also had a period where I couldn't imagine taking the car anywhere, but life has forced me to take a car more often now than in the past, and I'm starting to get used to it. So now I use the bike for shorter distances and the car for longer ones, generally. That said, I haven't taken public transport in ages, and I can't picture myself doing it now. (Much to my wife's annoyance.)
• hahaxdxd123 4y ago
  I would be far more comfortable cycling if the majority of cars on the road were self driving instead of distracted and angry drivers. Even in probably a top 5 city for cycling in America (SF), I weigh how poor the drivers will be along the route when choosing to drive or cycle. In a city like San Diego, where drunk driving is a local pastime, I would never cycle.
  • sschueller 4y ago
    Sadly what is currently available as FSD requires a driver to be more attentative than if it was off (the car will bail on FSD and you have maybe 1 second to respond) . You would be safer on the road if FSD was off.
  • 121789 4y ago
    I agree - SF should be ideal for biking in many cases, but I see too many close calls on a day to day basis to do it myself
    • maerF0x0 4y ago
      IMO close calls need to become a ticketable offense. The "no harm no foul" mentality encourages people to push the boundaries when they themselves do not bear the true costs (of being hit, vs monetary ... health loss > wealth loss)
      • CoffeeOnWrite 4y ago
        Yep. A driver pulled suddenly in front of me into the bike lane I was in, to pass cars to make his right turn, saving him maybe 30 seconds. He didn’t check for me, hit his brakes to make the turn, and I had to split lanes left to avoid impact. Luckily I was familiar with this stretch of road and paying extremely close attention, and the other cars were driving safely, else I would have had a very bad day. I confronted him and his response was “Well we didn’t collide, what more could you ask for?”
  • estebank 4y ago
    Self-driving cars are still a long time away from being widely available, but urban infrastructure changes can start to be deployed today: bollards, segregated bike lanes, at grade pedestrian crossings, pedestrianized streets, divergers, roundabouts, etc. With mitigation infrastructure you either make it impossible for the bad thing to happen, or you greatly reduce their impact. Infrastructure doesn't have to rely on humans not screwing up, if anything it expects it.
• kredd 4y ago
  I don't drive, and get around on my bike or public transport in general. However, while arguing about "how it's possible to bike in winter with proper infrastructure" my friends pointed out the important portion of cars - "comfort when it's -15C outside with wind chill". I didn't actually have any arguments against it, and that seems reasonable. Personally, I always can fallback to public transport if I don't want to cycle, but it's not possible in most of NA. Unfortunately, retro-fitting most of the cities to have proper subway/bus system that would complement the cycling infrastructure. But hey, I hope that day comes at some point!
  • allo37 4y ago
    -15C? I've cycle-commuted in -20C ;) The thing people might not realize is that when you're exerting yourself, your body generates plenty of heat to keep you warm - it's really just a matter of keeping that heat contained. It's more akin to doing a winter sport like skiing, snowboarding, etc. than it is to sitting passively in a car.
    • kredd 4y ago
      I totally agree! But personally, I prefer taking the bus/subway over biking when it’s cold. “Why should I wear two layers and a scarf when the bus stop is in front of my apartment building” would be the question I ask myself. I get to listen to my stuff, be comfortable and etc. And that’s pretty much the line of thought I can see a car-centric person might have. Might be completely wrong though, cars and I live in non-adjacent worlds.
• mgraczyk 4y ago
  The concept of “jaywalking,” for example, is integral to the “car technology” of today. The crime of crossing a street without respecting the dominance of cars was invented by the car industry in the 1920s, who pushed hard to define streets as a place for cars, not people. This story has been repeated in a lot of articles lately, but it doesn't seem to be true. If you read the linked article included as "evidence", it establishes that cities themselves started pushing for "jaywalking" as a concept. I haven't seen any evidence that the "car industry" played any role, even passively, in making "jaywalking" a concept. As for the rest of the article, yes we should be biking more. I don't have a car and I bike for ~98% of my trips. When it rains, I want there to be an option to ride in a covered vehicle. Until by some miracle we build 10x more trains, I will be taking a car. Better it be self-driving and safe + electric than human-driven + gas.
  • bombcar 4y ago
    It's also really obvious and definitely would be a side-effect of cars becoming more popular. Nobody considers the "anti-jaywalking" laws around crossing railroad tracks to be an issue, and everyone recognizes that a train will flatten a pedestrian without a problem. People really like a conspiracy because it explains why things aren't "good now" without having to actually wrestle with the causes and reasons why things may be the way they are.
• maerF0x0 4y ago
  Bikes make sense when the ambient temperature is between 12C and 27c (53-85f ish), when the distance is less than 5 miles. When it's safe (both traffic, theft, and personal safety in the areas travelled through such as high crime neighborhoods), when you dont need to transport people who cannot bicycle themselves, when you dont care about appearance at the destination (or have access to a shower/bathroom), when social status doesnt matter (eg after marriage, lol)... Remove the disincentives and people will flock to it.
  • gen220 4y ago
    I bike to work and back every day in a USDA 7b zone (the mean average annual extreme minimum temperature is -15 to -12.2 C). I think the range of comfortable ambient temperatures is quite a bit wider if you're willing to invest money in proper clothing (I justify it by "saving" on gas, car ownership, etc.). At 0C with decent gloves, you're fine. At -10C, good gloves and headwear are essential, but the ride is still pretty pleasant. IME, moisture is a bigger issue than temperature. It's the biggest cause for me not biking around town. Biking in (heavy) rain or snow requires more (and more expensive) of mental and physical prep work, and more regular maintenance, and some days I just don't want to put up with it. On the other points, I mostly agree, although discreetly-accessible showers on both ends of the journey go a long away towards mitigating social status.
    • luisgvv 4y ago
      I second this... Biking in a really rainy and humid country is a nightmare for biking. Another factor why we don't bike around is the irregular terrain with slopes. Biking in places like the Netherlands, New York is really fun as it's really effortles. Biking in places like Bolivia, Guatemala, Costa Rica or any city built within slopes not so much, and don't tell me that with a good bike gear it's solved...
    • colinmhayes 4y ago
      > At 0C with decent gloves, you're fine. I agree. Most Americans don't. You telling them it's not a big deal isn't convincing them. They want to be warm, not fine.
• sdevp 4y ago
  While I do enjoy taking my bike out as frequently as I can, I must confess that it can be a challenge for people where I live. I live in a tropical country. Half the year, it's either super hot or it's raining. It's really uncomfortable riding your bike during summer here (35+ Celsius) and riding your bike in the heavy rain is out of question. Maybe it makes more sense to focus on public transport over cycling in such cases but I do wonder what the solution for last mile connectivity should be if walking also 'walks' into the same problems.
• larve 4y ago
  I don’t understand take that this is not possible due to disabled people, winter, hills. Climate and city planning is an incremental problem. Just 2 new bike lanes significantly change the way I am able to commute, even far into the winter, and when it’s raining or snowing I switch to car or public transport. I live in a reasonably bike friendly city for us standards, and it’s clear that some overhauls have made the road much more efficient for cars themselves, pedestrians don’t stray out nearly as much into the road, as did the consolidation of parking spots into parking lots. Just go see some European cities for how not only public transport, biking and a more modern street layout make life better for almost everyone. For disabled people, having dedicated parking spots as well as a pedestrian friendly street layout makes life easier than having to navigate a busy street. Make the city better for bike doesn’t mean making it hell for cars.
  • kybernetyk 4y ago
    Our city converts street lanes into bike only lanes like crazy. All under the guise of keeping carbon emissions down. With the result that still no one is using the bike lanes and the traffic is now more condensed and way worse on the remaining car lanes. Bikes sound so good if you live somewhere with an eternal summer (or spring) and where it never rains or snows or gets below 20 C.
    • loloquwowndueo 4y ago
      You make it sound like it’s impossible to bike in less-than-perfect weather. Which is false. Makes me think you haven’t really tried to use all those new shiny bike lanes.
      • kybernetyk 4y ago
        Bikes are recreational vehicles. I wouldn't ever swap my car for a bike.
        • loloquwowndueo 4y ago
          You’re wrong on the first take and entitled to your choices on the second - to each their own.
• quonn 4y ago
  But is it a better world? Outside of dense city centers it isn‘t. It‘s less comfortable, far less. Today I quickly bought some things for breakfast. Got in the car in the garage, outside it was pouring. Got out 4 minutes later in the supermarket garage. I was back 15 minutes after leaving and there was absolutely no traffic at all. The car ride was nice and enjoyable. I wouldn‘t have walked this, I would rather have stayed hungry until lunch. Even if I could it would have taken at least half an hour. Sure, it took energy to produce that car, but that by itself doesn‘t mean it‘s worthwhile. It also takes energy to build houses. To live well. Anything takes energy. It‘s possible to make a point that we should use the minimum possible energy in life for various reasons. Fine. But this is a very different argument then.
  • bombcar 4y ago
    This is the thing you'll start to notice; any city that is good to bike/transit it will be even better for cars; and so it quickly becomes less of a "make this city walkable/bikeable" and more "ban cars in the city".
• dqpb 4y ago
  Are bikes and self-driving cars mutually exclusive?
  • wbsss4412 4y ago
    To a degree, yes. Bikes and cars compete for road space. Though I think the overall point is that self driving cars solve fewer problems than their proponents claim.
    • Kim_Bruning 4y ago
      I disagree. A bike lane can transport more people per minute than a car lane. If some proportion of people take the bike lanes, there is more room in the car lanes for traffic too. This makes both modes of transport more effective.
      • wbsss4412 4y ago
        I hear what you’re saying, but the thing is that, while I agree with you on the efficiency point, more room for bikes still means less room for cars in sum. The fact that more bikes on the road means more room for the cars that remain, doesn’t take away from the fact that there are few cars, and less room dedicated cars in total.
        • Kim_Bruning 4y ago
          Ah, technically correct! I was thinking from an investment perspective. Investment across both can be synergistic, so in the end both systems work better.
          • wbsss4412 4y ago
            Absolutely! Unfortunately, from a political perspective, drivers will still to maximize their share of road space, and tend to oppose shifting car lanes to bike lanes. When confronted with the issues that cars cause (pollution, accidents, etc), technology like EVs and self driving gets deployed as a way to suggest that the status quo is fine (despite the fact that plenty of drivers seem to be upset about the EV transition, but I digress).
• dqpb 4y ago
  I assume the author doesn't have kids.
  • Kim_Bruning 4y ago
    why do you make that assumption?
    • dqpb 4y ago
      Logistics with young kids is hard. It's much harder without a car. I actually hate cars to be honest. I'd rather walk everywhere. But the proposition that bicycles would be so superior to self driving cars that we should pit these technologies against each other as mutually exclusive options is laughable, naive, and idiotic.
      • Kim_Bruning 4y ago
        I think we should invest in both, and I don't think the article is saying we shouldn't. I do think that (according to the article) the investments are a bit skewed towards self-driving cars, where more investments into bikes might have a higher yield. Note that you don't need to get rid of your car to benefit from more people on bikes. More people on bikes on bike lanes means less people in cars to get in your way. So you still see quite a benefit indirectly. That said, with city design like in eg. the Netherlands, you can have shops in walking distance, services and jobs within biking distances, and heavy items can be delivered to your door. This means you only really need to rent a car fairly rarely (be it normal or self driving one day) . This works for a lot of people. A lot of other people do still have cars, but might still eg. get on the bike for a quick run to the store when they get home.
• aero-glide2 4y ago
  Very difficult in India with the unbearable heat! Unless you are in Bangalore (most of Indians on HN)
• UberFly 4y ago
  Maybe the Segway really was the device that would revolutionize cities, it was just too far ahead if it's time, like the PalmPilot.
  • hbn 4y ago
    Segways are just not comfortable. It's more exhausting to stand still with your feet planted than it is to walk, because with walking each foot is getting a break while the other is doing the stepping.
• r00fus 4y ago
  We need "grand theft auto" [1] type law enforcement support for bikes. Theft is a huge problem and the reason why most expensive bikes are mainly for exercise/racing. Even in low-crime areas, it's inadvisable to ride, say a $1-2k bike without extensive locks. [1] https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Grand-theft-auto.htm https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federa...
  • hbn 4y ago
    If you walk around downtown in my city you'll be approached by sketchy dudes selling a set of expensive bike wheels for absurdly cheap. Not hard to guess where they got them from.
• jl6 4y ago
  I wish there was greater acceptance in the west of bike-based contraptions like bikes with big cargo baskets / barrows, or trailers, or bikes with sun/rain shelters above. They do exist but are usually considered kinda dorky and weird and most bike infrastructure isn’t designed with these larger vehicles in mind. But they are common in several Asian countries and can be very practical. They help with the “I can’t use a bike because it’s raining or because I need to carry groceries” problem. Of course they are heavier and take more effort to pedal, but c'est la vie.
• pretendscholar 4y ago
  I was thinking climate controlled small golf carts would be great too.
• double_nan 4y ago
  I feel that one of the problems of “bike urbanistas” is lack of utilitarianism. There is no realistic road map to make modern cities in the most of the world to look like Amsterdam/Copenhagen. That is my major problem with all this proposals. They try to see the problem in a vacuum and don’t take any real situations in to an account. As for me, I wish it would be possible to choose bike to get to work (i have 5 of them already). But even with ideal conditions and electric bike i still live 15 miles/25km from work and the trip will take at least 1 hour. It rains and it snows from time to time here and there is no way that it would be possible to get rid of car infrastructure in any even the most idealistic dream.
  • LaurensBER 4y ago
    Amsterdam in the 70ties was a car city ( https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in-the-1970s-what-changed/ https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in... ). People demanded change and the government delivered. 25 KM is a decent ride but definitely doable and even if people would only do it 50% of the time (and let's be honest, if people in Stockholm chose to bike during the winter months we can probably up that 50% a bit) that would still be a huge reduction in traffic, freeing up valuable city space for more productive endeavors.
  • ryukafalz 4y ago
    I live in Philadelphia and it’s absolutely feasible here. Our density is roughly comparable to European cities like Amsterdam. The vast majority of trips are under 3 miles. With a few relatively small tweaks we could be an excellent bike city.
• briefcomment 4y ago
  We should construct far more elevated walkways, at least in NY. Similar to the High line. I would be far more likely to walk everywhere if I didn't have to worry about traffic and stoplights. Not to mention, particulate and emissions exposure would drop like a rock.
• tluyben2 4y ago
  I would like self driving cars because I find any travel that I have to do myself a waste of time and life. I like hiking but not to get from a to b. Bikes don’t make that better but possibly slower and more dangerous. Why not learn from HK or Tokyo where you can get anywhere easily, including during major typhoons, by the underground. The much praised London Underground is far worse (by a wide margin imho; boil in summer, freeze in winter and far less efficient than the Asian counterparts) and that is still one of the best in the world.
• myth2018 4y ago
  An urban reform, not bikes or any sort of transportation, is the gateway to urban progress. I was about to argue that bikes would never solve the transportation problems in most of the huge latinamerican cities. Not simply because they are huge, but because the way they grew -- "freed" slaves expelled from rural zones and piled up in the periphery of urban cities, unassisted by even the most basic public facilities. In cities developed like that, most people live very far away from jobs and services and, then, traffic jams are the norm and commutes are usually extremely long. But then I realize: such commutes should be the exception, not the rule. And that will never change while real estate speculation remains allowed and we keep treating the poorer as sub-humans.
• roughly 4y ago
  I just picked up an e-bike, and it's gobsmacking how much it changes the equation for bicycling - it reduces the difficulty to a degree that it just doesn't make sense to take any other mode of transport within 3-5 miles of home, which is basically my entire city. It's unlocked a huge amount of travel that I wouldn't have bothered to do otherwise because it's too far to walk and driving (and parking) is a pain in the ass. If you haven't tried a modern e-bike, give it a shot - it really, really changes the game for transport.
  • __derek__ 4y ago
    Absolutely. I live on one of Seattle's hills, and doing errands on my bike has gone from an ordeal to the default choice.
  • khariel 4y ago
    My biggest concern in getting an e-bike is the fear of it getting stolen. I live in an European capital where this kind of crime is quite common. Didn't look too deep into insurance options, but still. Other than that, the idea sounds super nice. I see more and more people using e-bikes here.
    • roughly 4y ago
      Yeah, that's a concern. I've got a Kryptonite for the frame and a beefy cable for the front wheel, and I'm going to get pinlocks for everything I can. I don't think I'd leave it out overnight or be real comfortable leaving it on the street for a whole day, but for meals, stops into stores, etc I think it's protected well enough. (I'd note also though that there's enough broken glass on the sides of the roads around here that I'm not sure a car is much of a theft deterrent either.)
• mataug 4y ago
  I have a 10 mile bike commute that I'm happy to ride with a e-bike. I don't much mind the rainy / cold weather in the PNW. I'm a lot more worried about someone hitting me with their cars because protected bike lanes, and painted bicycle gutters have a tendency to end abruptly in my city leaving me scrambling in the middle of a 25 - 35 mph road while annoyed cars and trucks pass at high speed. The situation is improving and more biking infrastructure is being built and I can't wait for the day when I feel completely safe riding my bike to work all the time.
• mikkelam 4y ago
  As a copenhagener i fucking love my bike commute. I feel very safe, I'm able to zip across the city faster than most types of transports for <7km distances. I also actively pick jobs where I'm forced to ride my bike to get some medium level activity. Several times I've thought about trying to live and work in other cities and I'm not sure I could live without this part of my day. I can really recommend it. American urban design is just really unattractive as a european due to being so anti-human and pro-car.
• asoneth 4y ago
  Bikes are a superior solution in some places, but they're just not compatible with the existing infrastructure and culture in others. You'd have to redesign neighborhoods, add transit for long distances, convince people to live more densely, raise a generation of children who are fit enough to ride and aren't scared of heat and cold, etc. I think that's worth doing and the Netherlands and Scandinavian countries have set a pretty good example but that took them generations. Whereas self-driving electric cars can simply slot into our existing auto-centric cities and towns without requiring Americans to change their behavior, get exercise, or experience any sort of discomfort. Sure, they solve only a proper subset of the problems caused by cars (e.g. tailpipe emissions, parking) so they're more evolutionary then revolutionary, but I suppose they're better than nothing.
• todd8 4y ago
  Bikes work in some cities, and I'm a big fan of bikes in general. Especially in the US, it would benefit a lot of people to get a bit of daily exercise. However, I can't imagine riding a bike to work on where I live. First, it's too dangerous. The modern age of cell phones is very different that the days when I grew up when parents allowed kids to ride their bikes in the street to school every day. Distracted drivers now seem to mow down bicyclists regularly. Furthermore, the cities I've lived in have weather too extreme to ride in: Buffalo -- on average it snows during 6 months of the year, around 90+ inches/year (242cm/year). Boston -- very cold four months of the year. I recall 30 consecutive days with a high below freezing. It also has high winter wind speeds (some days as high as 14mph (23km/hr) in December) and rainfall. Dallas -- averages 97 days per year with a high over 90 degrees (32 degrees Celsius) Houston -- averages 99 days per year with a high over 90 degrees (32 degrees Celsius) and very humid. Its also 637.4 square miles (1,651 km^2) in size making it very likely that one will have a long sweaty commute. Austin -- averages 108 days per year with a high over 90 degrees (32 degrees Celsius) Detroit -- one block from home I was beaten off of my bike by an organized gang of bicycle thieves that took my bike and were never caught. The weather isn't concussive to bike riding either. There are cities in the US that have better weather. I enjoyed walking to school the year I lived in Marin County in California.
• taylodl 4y ago
  A simple scooter gets 80 MPG - 90 MPG, can use all existing transportation infrastructure, and anybody can ride (if you can ride a bike then you can ride a scooter), and has low acquisition costs. Get states on board with allowing those having a drivers license to be able to legally ride a scooter, where presently many states require getting a motorcycle endorsement which is a definite obstacle. I'm really surprised the U.S. isn't pursuing this harder seeing as how we've built so much infrastructure for motorized vehicles. I'm an engineer - we don't need nirvana, we need improvement.
• b3n4kh 4y ago
  Tell me you never heard of snow without telling me you never heard of snow.
• JaceLightning 4y ago
  Nope. Nope. Nope. Rain, hail, snow, groceries, etc. Bikes are the most dangerous form of travel by micromort mile.
• bacan 4y ago
  All we need is WFH. That alone will cut down a major portion of the traffic.
  • timbit42 4y ago
    That will help but it's not "all" we need. It's only "part" of the solution.
• SergeAx 4y ago
  I would love to see how bike enthusiasts will deal with climate conditions like that: +35..+40°C in summer, -15°C and snow in winter. No sarcasm, genuinely curious.
• jackvalentine 4y ago
  My anecdote. I ride a bike and wear a suit at work, instead of showering at home I shower at work - just shifting the location of the activity. My employer has actually responded to the demand for non-car options and repurposed a huge section of the multistory car park for bike parking, lockers and showers all for $5 a week which includes a towel service. At my previous employer there was no such service, but I was pleasantly surprised to discover multiple showers in every building we owned at different sites - most office buildings do it turns out!
• Markoff 4y ago
  Stupid blanket statement, while bikes work fine in flat Bangkok or Beijing where I used them daily, good luck riding bike for instance in hilly Prague or other places.
  • timbit42 4y ago
    What about electric bicycles?
• fattybob 4y ago
  Except when it rains
• amai 4y ago
  mandatory YouTube channel to watch on the topic: NotJustBikes: https://m.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes/featured https://m.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes/featured