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Is the internet killing the nude beach?

141 points by fortran77 4y ago

fortran77 4y ago
I think their hypothesis is plausible, but I also suspect another factor: the increasing number of overweight and obese people who would feel uncomfortable showing their bodies.
- zaxbeast 4y ago
  What about swinger clubs? are they more or less popular? There's one around here that is very popular...
  - bleachedsleet 4y ago
    In my experience, the clubs cater to a niche. They’re effectively a kink in and of themselves and there’s a very explicit innuendo that sex is to be had on premise. Nude beaches on the other hand are a casual exploration of being clotheless. And while sexuality plays a part, it is not the focus of the experience and is often generally discouraged. I think nude beaches are cultural and thus more prone to the ebb and flow of said culture. Swingers clubs are a fetish and will exist regardless of culture as long as there are people with the kink.
  - throwaway920102 4y ago
    Haven't seen stats but it sure feels like ENM and poly are cannibalizing the alternative sexuality world and reducing the popularity of swinging. Which IMO is for heterosexual couples at least a bit of a loss, as swinging seems to favor longer lasting and less self-imploding relationships.
  - bongoman37 4y ago
    Photography is usually explicitly forbidden in these spaces.
- noduerme 4y ago
  not to mention those of us uninterested in seeing their bodies.
  - bcraven 4y ago
    The primary purpose of a nude beach is not to look at other people naked, but to enjoy being naked yourself.
    - noduerme 4y ago
      the primary purpose of sex is procreation. Doesn't mean it isn't more appealing to do it with some people than others.
      - smt88 4y ago
        Pleasure is the primary purpose of sex for the vast majority of sexual encounters, including the majority of living people who aren't able to create biological children (due to age, sexuality, medication, or medical issue).
      - trashtester 4y ago
        Arguably the procreation part is WHY it's so much more appealing to do it with some people rather than others. If you (especially as a woman) are going to get pregnant, better make sure the father either is likely to have good genes, social leverage or will help you raise the kid, or ideally all 3. Similarly (but less strong) for men, better make sure the woman is likely to get pregnant (she's not too old), is healthy enough to take care of any baby born (she doesn't have obvious physical defects).
  - sandworm101 4y ago
    "Ugh. Nude beaches are full of overweight, out-of-shape old bodies and I don't want to go there and realize I look exactly like that." Bobs Burgers - s03e11
    - noduerme 4y ago
- armchairhacker 4y ago
  my understanding from Reddit is that most of the people on nude beaches are overweight and old (of course Reddit isn’t really a good source, but I believe them here) It’s actually kind of the opposite: attractive women are less likely to be on nude beaches because they may get harassed by creepy men.
  - personalidea 4y ago
    There is a great essay/story by David Sedaris on his experiences on a nude camp site. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4138.Naked?from_search=true https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4138.Naked?from_search=t...
  - Nursie 4y ago
    Only nude beach I've ever stumbled across, on a part of the Queensland Coast, was very much this way. Bunch of wrinkly older folks hanging out, very low body-consciousness in general I think, past caring and just having fun.
    - dvsfish 4y ago
      Noosa? Of all the nude beaches in the world, the single one I know about and have been to is (at least presumably) referenced.
      - Nursie 4y ago
        Ha, yes. It was about ten years ago I went for a walk around the coast of the national park area with a small group, on my way travelling up the east coast.
    - worthless-trash 4y ago
      Must be the southern beaches ? Some of the northern beaches are definitely for younger australians and tourists.
      - Nursie 4y ago
- cratermoon 4y ago
  Perhaps it's more like "the pervasive bias and contempt towards the overweight and obese that have been body-shamed"
- mc32 4y ago
  Also if the ratio went from more or less 50-50% M:F to now to 90%+ male and the male portion leans heavily older... So women are not showing up and the men who show up are old geezers... So no young woman would want to be looked and stared at especially by the old geezers who are the majority. It's the old "why we can't have nice things". Selfish Bad apples exploiting convention and ruining it for "good citizens"
- deleted 4y ago
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decremental 4y ago
- wawjgreen 4y ago
- gjm11 4y ago
  What do you think they are that isn't French or Danish?
  - savryn 4y ago
    Is there a meme-term for this type of response, like concern-trolling but like naive-trolling? I see it all the time, someone dares to say uncomfortable reality-based everyone-who-lives-outside-in-real-world heresies and some online person walks by acting like a child born yesterday yet wandering into adult topics and asking them to spell out the dangerous heresy in the most evidence-I-can-screenshot-and-share for manner?
    - jwond 4y ago
      “sealioning” maybe > Sealioning refers to the disingenuous action by a commenter of making an ostensible effort to engage in sincere and serious civil debate, usually by asking persistent questions of the other commenter. These questions are phrased in a way that may come off as an effort to learn and engage with the subject at hand, but are really intended to erode the goodwill of the person to whom they are replying, to get them to appear impatient or to lash out, and therefore come off as unreasonable. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sealioning-internet-trolling https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sealioning-int...
    - kevinventullo 4y ago
      For what it’s worth, I genuinely don’t know what the implicit claim is.
      - 4y ago
chris_armstrong 4y ago
I thought the article touched on an important point: the reluctance to be nude in public is the commodification of bodies (through photography, social media, plastic surgery, porn), where effectively people drawing a line where they did not have to before. I think people are increasingly aware of this in their interactions in public spaces, especially when so much more of our social interactions are up for commodification through social media and the like (even the commodification of sentiment and political issues which is raison detre for many Twitter personalities, journalists and podcast hosts)
- echelon 4y ago
  I reject that hypothesis outright and submit another one: It's the cameras. They're everywhere now.
  - galaxyLogic 4y ago
    I was thinking about the same thing. If you go to nude beach somebody could take your picture and put it online and then when you apply for a job they could find that nude picture and could think there is something wrong about you.
    - stephen_g 4y ago
      Shows there is something wrong with our culture when anybody could think there is something “wrong” about somebody relaxing on a beach while being nude in a non-sexual context…
      - imtringued 4y ago
        Our economy hates full employment so people are always scared of being the one who is unemployed.
      - galaxyLogic 4y ago
        Guardians or the "norms" will use any deviation from norms against you.
anthropodie 4y ago
Maybe it's not Internet but the camera phones? I mean they are everywhere.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  This is mentioned in the article, and while it is a factor, the fear of being photographed would be much lower if it wasn't associated with those photo's being posted online for any future personal associate to see.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    We can go deeper, if we had not invented electricity, jee we wouldn't be able to transmit such data.
    - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
      To sleep, perchance to dream..
    - hackernewds 4y ago
      Everything is the fault of the Big Bang..
      - _Algernon_ 4y ago
        “In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
    - birracerveza 4y ago
      If we weren't alive, there wouldn't be crimes!
  - checkyoursudo 4y ago
    Posted online where though? I'm sure this is the fear, but the perceived risk surely outweighs the actual risk. It's not like there would be zero repercussions for posting nude beach pics on mainstream social media, and anywhere else (niche, personal website, porn forums/sites) means almost nobody you ever know would ever see pics of you au naturel. Ever. But, yes, I agree this is the fundamental (even if I think irrational) fear.
deadbeeves 4y ago
I think the "sexualization and commodification" explanation is insufficient. The advent of cameras connected to the Internet didn't really add anything in this regard. Someone could always go to a nude beach to gather material mentally, so to speak, and sexualize and commodify the people there. All that changed was how many people would be potentially able to look at the people at the beach. So to me that sounds like plain old shame.
- ls15 4y ago
  Not exactly. The deal with nude beaches is typically that everyone is nude. Nude people are looking at other nude people. You can see my pubes and I can see your pubes. Clothes are banned. Phones should be too.
  - deadbeeves 4y ago
    Which would also have nothing to do with "sexualization and commodification".
  - pronlover723 4y ago
    > Phones should be too. Why? In the not too distant future it's likely the majority of people will have cameras implanted in their eyes. Maybe you don't think that will happen but to me it seems inevitable. So jump forward to then, everywhere that cameras are banned now will have to change (immigration at airports, bathrooms, secret rooms at companies, etc...) Sure maybe at first people will say "you can't come in this room unless you turn your eyes off" but it won't be long before that won't be an option or it will be such a large burden that no one will be able to be truly themselves without their enhancements. Or, let's play another thought experiment. Some people are claimed to have photographic memories. What if we invent ML to generate images of those memories and what if they turn how to be close enough representations as to be photos. I'm not saying that would ever come true or even be possible. But as a thought experiment, if it was possible to pull photos out of your head for a few hours, days after you experienced something, what would have to change about any place that current says "no photos". It seems unlikely people would put up with having to quarantine until their memories decay enough to not remember. And, while we're dreaming up the future, there are already implantable memory chips so augmenting yourself in a way your memories don't degrade is certainly some not too distant possibility I know the people who would hate these futures will downvote this comment but to, those are the same people who in the 80s thought at world where everyone has a cellphone and can be reached 24/7 and call anyone in the world was some kind of hell. And yet here we are.
TheRealPomax 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
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ifsothen 4y ago
aaron695 4y ago
paul7986 4y ago
In the U.S. Gunnison Beach in northern New Jersey is packed with naked sunbathers of all walks of life throughout the summer. If you are a bi, curious or gay then it's even more a place you'd enjoy. Same goes for Miami's Haulover Beach, yet compared to Gunnison there's 65% nude sunbathers there vs. 95% at Gunnison. Though the water is a ton warmer and the sand is a ton softer stepping into the ocean at Haulover. I hear there's another popular one in San Diego called Black's Beach where anything goes there. The other two beaches I mentioned are patrolled and sexual activity is prohibited! If you wear a hat and sunglasses you are pretty much are an anonymous naked person amongst 100s of other naked people. If you havent tried it and enjoy being naked around other people and aren't self conscious you will really enjoy it. It's very freeing and it's 100% no judgement zone cause again all walks of life(30% older folks to 30% heavy folks to 40% people from 20 to 50 who are mostly in shape to average; males definitely outweigh females in numbers) are there naked to enjoy a unique/fun/freeing/no judgement experience.
- deleted 4y ago
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- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  * If you are a bi, curious or gay then it's even more a place you'd enjoy.* I don't think you understand how very uncomfortable places like changing rooms are for this bisexual person and you are definitely overlooking the fact that in most places with shared nudity, it is extremely rude to stare. Additionally, what the actual heck - do you think queer folks are inherently more "horny" or lustful with their gaze than straight people? I guess I just don't understand the stereotypes you are working with. And honestly, if I want to see naked people, I can find them on the internet. It wasn't really an issue before the internet either and I was a long way from any nude beaches.
  - JamesBarney 4y ago
    I just thought he was implying there were more naked guys, and assumed gay or bi men enjoyed looking at naked guys more than straight ones. That doesn't seem like a crazy assumption to me.
bcherny 4y ago
I didn’t see Japan mentioned. I wonder how the popularity of onsens (gender-separated nude spas) compares with the declining popularity of European mixed-gender nude beaches.
- mantas 4y ago
  And european separated gender beaches too. Locally it looks like women-only beach is most popular of women/men/mixed.
- elric 4y ago
  Mixed nude beaches might be on the decline, but mixed nude spas certainly aren't. New ones are popping up in the Germany/Netherlands/Belgium region every day. Japan is a bit different when it comes to baths. Traditionally many Japanese homes didn't have a bath, public baths remained popular far longer than they did in Europe. Having free hot (volcanic) water available also helps, which I guess is easier to exploit in a large onsen than it is at home. Also, they do have mixed onsen, but those are pretty rare (these days?).
  - valarauko 4y ago
    > Also, they do have mixed onsen, but those are pretty rare (these days?) My impression was that onsen had areas divided by gender, and mixed onsen weren't nude?
philwelch 4y ago
I haven’t been there since COVID but at the time, it didn’t seem to be affected.
blt 4y ago
A bit disappointed that the author quoted so many people speculating on the thought processes of young people, but did not ask any young people their feelings. (or asked but chose not to report)
- arblor 4y ago
  It's just the usual newspaper argument linking X to rise of technology-bad. As a young Euro myself I love nude beaches, but rarely went there with friends my age; I think the most common answer was "It's something for old people". Second most common I something about body awareness/fear of being ugly, which is more common in my generation and young people in general. Of course, nobody I talked to mentioned fear of becoming an unintentional pornstar.
  - aulin 4y ago
    I think this is the answer. Both your points are two aspects of the same idea. It's something for old people because old people have the maturity needed to be comfortable with their own body in public. Younger generations are victim of the fake beauty standards promoted by social networks and maybe porn and are a lot more self conscious. Online nudity is filtered, fake, staged, edited... when you go to a nude beach there are no filters, no perfect lighting, no make up, just the bright sun that highlights all your imperfections for all to see.
    - MrZander 4y ago
      To be fair, I think it's much less likely that some creep is going to try to record an old person and post it on the internet as opposed to an attractive younger person...
- goethes_kind 4y ago
  I don't think the individuals know why the norm exist. It is probably an emergent phenomenon and not something that each individual thinks about or even decides for themselves. I am one of these young people and I just never thought about it. On this particular matter I just do like everyone else because I have no reason to deviate from the norm. Tbh, I do not see why nudism is attractive. Just does not appeal to me. However on a couple of occasion I did go skinny dipping, but more out of the necessity of not having planned for the swim, rather than out of some life philosophy that my penis must be in view of others.
rglullis 4y ago
- bergenty 4y ago
  That doesn’t change anything. What a bigoted reach of a comment.
  - aulin 4y ago
    a big influx of people from countries and cultures way less open towards nudity and sexuality doesn't change anything? It would be the same if immigration came from the puritan regions of US.
    - EdwardDiego 4y ago
      What mechanism do you propose? Muslims arrived, then X, therefore less nudism. What's X?
      - aulin 4y ago
        1. young muslims are way less inclined to get nude in public: more young muslims, less young nudists 2. locals felt safer before because they were nude among people with the same culture towards nudity, now they don't anymore because there's a bigger chance to be sexualized by people from different cultures
        usrusr 4y ago
        3. in a culturally diverse group, who would suggest something like a spontaneous nude dip? Nobody, to avoid embarrassing someone, just in case, even if in fact every9ne involved would be perfectly up to it. Things like that are far more likely to happen in a group where everybody comes from the same village.
        EdwardDiego 4y ago
Barrin92 4y ago
>Torben Larson, the chairman of the Danish Naturists association (naturist is another term for nudist) told me that he was less convinced that the rate of nude bathing is universally declining—he senses that it is increasing among older Danes—but agreed that younger generations seem much less interested in nude bathing, and in other nude activities, for that matter. My personal theory borne out by the age gap is the influence of American/Anglo culture on young generations. Contrary to popular opinion which seems to be convinced that the youth has no limits I think my generation (people in their 20s/30s) is incredibly sexless, prude and neurotic about just about anything, taking most social cues from the English speaking internet. My family is half ex East-German and West German and that split on nudity / FKK (free body culture) is extremely pronounced as well. I don't think the "camera surveillance" theory holds up because given what else people do on camera for clicks and attention indicates that there's more shame going around. Particular the youth does not seem to care if they're caught on camera doing just about anything.
fxtentacle 4y ago
Back in university, we sometimes organized nude swimming events for students. We had a private lake, so nobody from the general public was bothered. Sometimes, old couples would walk by, giggle, and then go their ways. But then video cameras became cheap and easy enough to use. So eventually, a creepy old man showed up and started filming our swimming event without anyone's consent. As part of the organization team, it was my duty to confront him and ask for him to wipe the tapes. His wife had died, he was lonely and horny and just wanted to capture his lucky sight for himself. So we succeeded after a long discussion and he let me wipe the tape. But the damage was done. Afterwards, everyone was afraid of being filmed without consent again. We never got enough sign-ups for another event after that.
- hackernewds 4y ago
  We = were you head of the fraternity? Affiliated with the university?
  - fxtentacle 4y ago
    Nope. I was just a regular student. But I was part of a group of friends who thought this would be fun so we just privately organized beach parties. Except we didn't have a real beach.
- daenz 4y ago
  >But the damage was done. Afterwards, everyone was afraid of being filmed without consent again. Devil's advocate, but isn't the point of being nude in public that you are destigmatizing it? I know you mentioned this was a "private lake" but it is unclear of if you mean legally private or de facto private. In case of the latter, even creepers have a right to be there and film. I used to visit a nude beach and there was always some clothed weirdo with their phone out. They would get unfriendly looks by everyone though, and I think the ostracization kept them on the outskirts of the community.
  - aqme28 4y ago
    That’s not the point of being nude in public. For some people sure. Others like the freedom of it. In either case, most just want an ephemeral experience, and don’t want permanent recordings.
hoseja 4y ago
>"such as rising populations of people from cultures and religions that aren’t as tolerant of public nudity"
kasperni 4y ago
Bare breasts have definitely been making a comeback the last couple of years in the public room in Denmark. Now it is just an individual choice instead of something everyone does like 40 years ago. A much better article on how going topless has changed over the last 50 years in Denmark is [1]. [1] https://www-dr-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/indland/nye-toploese-tider-der-er-ingen-der-skal-sige-det-kan-jeg-ikke?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=da&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-dr-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/indland/nye-toploes...
- simongray 4y ago
  You do see it, but it's really not that common. As an example, here's a walk through one of the Copenhagen harbour baths in 2022: https://youtu.be/S8t6sYECNUI https://youtu.be/S8t6sYECNUI
  - netsharc 4y ago
    The act of you linking the video in this context is very ironic. Yeah, I wonder why girls are less topless nowadays -- maybe because the chances of their private parts ending up on YouTube is much higher?
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Or is it that they are considering breasts as private now, when they weren't (or not as much) as before? If it's normal and there's no social stigma, then who cares. But now if there is increasing stigma, at least in that the images could be used against you in the future, then that seems more like the problem.
      - netsharc 4y ago
        This is probably in the article (I haven't read it...), but my guess is, in the past they probably didn't care if people had a glimpse, there were no cameras, and most people were polite enough not to ogle; but nowadays people can just pull out their phones and record for (presumably) their sexual gratification later. Warning, this is analysis from not an anthropologist/sociologist: Maybe the prevalance of porn and screens to view them on has also made for creepier men/men who are now more used to viewing women as objects. I remember reading an article many years ago about how teenage girls are acting more like porn stars because they believe that's what attracts guys...
LatteLazy 4y ago
I'm 38. Boys about 10 years older than me were required to swim nude in the school pool. I was required to use the communal shower nude after sports 3 times a week at school. Boys 10 years younger than me were not required to do so. I've noticed at the gym etc that guys 10+ years younger than me are pretty sheepish about being nude. Even in the gym changing room they change behind a towel. I bare all and don't really care. I've wondered if that experience in youth had equiped me well for later life where I don't really care...
- valarauko 4y ago
  I'm roughly the same age, though an immigrant from a part of the world where nudity wasn't common even at the gym locker room. I do notice the same trend in the locker rooms here - younger men do get naked but turn away while they change, and almost only at the locker. Older men are much more likely to walk around naked, with none of the turning away business.
hourago 4y ago
In Spain there is a famous case were a judge ruled that filming and publishing videos of people while they pee in the forest is legal as it is a public space. The guy that was spying and filming on the back of concert in the forest won the case. So, for now, the law, in Spain, does not help people to feel safe being nude in any public space. I think that it is important that citizens can record and have proof of things that happen in public spaces, but this case seems to push that boundary.
elric 4y ago
Not just the nude beach. Also the gym shower. All older sporting facilities in my neck of the woods have communal showers (typically gender segregated, though I've seen some exceptions). People used to get naked and wash (as one does in a shower). More and more, (young) people have started showering with underwear. Newer sporting facilities have started catering to this trend by providing individual shower cubibles. Which seems a bit silly, as you're far more likely to take a long time in a cubicle, thus wasting more water and more time. In a communal shower, you can just give someone the stink eye if they're taking too long ... no such luck in a locked cubicle. I don't think this is a good thing. If you're not seeing any "normal" naked bodies, and are only ever exposed to idealized movie/porn bodies, aren't you more likely to get all kinds of body issues?
- themerone 4y ago
  Why do you care about other people wasting time?
  - najra 4y ago
    probably because the number of showers is limited and they're making other people wait?
  - rout39574 4y ago
    Limited hot water
- tzs 4y ago
  > In a communal shower, you can just give someone the stink eye if they're taking too long ... no such luck in a locked cubicle. How do you know someone else is taking too long unless you also have been in the communal shower too long?
  - LeifCarrotson 4y ago
    The frustration builds when you're waiting in line for the communal shower. At my local gym, there were 12 communal showers, but it was common for a class to be scheduled with an end time at 6:00 or 6:30 on the dot, so in addition to the steady traffic from the pool, weight room, or the ergs, you'd have a sudden exodus of 20 or 30 guys (or 50 in January) all waiting in line for showers so we could get to work on time. Then (in spite of signs prohibiting phone use in the locker rooms) people started using their phones for messaging/emails, usually conspicuously held within the locker or otherwise aimed so that they couldn't be used for photos...then they converted the showers to 8 private cubicles. Even with 8 instead of 12, it was no big deal if people were taking 3 minutes to rinse off the sweat. Whether you left at 6:33, 6:36, or 6:39 was not a problem. But if 10 or 20% of people were treating the shower like a sauna, luxuriating in the steam until their fingers and toes got wrinkly, throughput went down the drain along with those gallons and gallons of hot water... you might have to wait until 7:00 to take a shower after your 6:30 spin class. Putting a lightswitch which had a 10-minute timer outside the cubicle, plus a sign urging users to conserve water and take showers shorter than 5 minutes, was a big improvement. However, lots of people would do everything they could to minimize perceived awkward nakedness in the communal showers, getting clean in record time, but feel no such pressure in a cubicle.
cookieswumchorr 4y ago
maybe with the adoption of remote work we can, in future, decouple our professional identities from our private ones. The idea is: your private life is too unpredictable to effectively protect data from leaking. You have hobbies, friends, family, you end up buying tons of stuff, going to places. Professional life, on the other side, tends to be more organized. What if, in future, you can work online under a username, decoupled from your IRL self. this is already the case for some folks who get tasks on freelance platforms and get paid in crypto. Maybe in future this could become more accepted, and more legal (as in paying taxes, but without compromising privacy too much)
- slfnflctd 4y ago
  I absolutely love this, but that's not the direction the world is headed. If we're to make anything close to what you describe widespread, I think a minimum of two ingredients is needed-- 1, multiple collectives/co-ops of multiple semi-anonymous people who are willing to pool their reputations together (who need to trust each other somewhat so might need potentially identifying info to cement that initially), and 2, companies or investors willing to take a chance on such collectives by putting them to work and developing a rating system. I think doing both at the same time would be difficult to say the least. Could be a challenge worth learning from for some brave folks, though.
xeromal 4y ago
I have no real data on this, but I'd assume some of this is also due to fear of skin cancer. I assume less people sunbathe in general and and the less skin exposed, the better. My nether regions have never seen the sun and I aim to keep it that way. Who wants penis skin cancer or breast skin cancer?
foobarbecue 4y ago
As a teenager I went to a Quaker summer camp with a lake where everyone swam naked if they wanted, counselors included. It felt healthy. The camp had very strong messaging about respect and how the body can be naked without being sexualized. Actually the rules were that anyone could be naked anywhere, which made communal living much easier, what with showering and people who like to sleep naked. I guess they probably can't do that any more (but I haven't asked).
almostdigital 4y ago
Camera phones killed it but generative AI models will revive it. Who cares if someone takes a photo of you on the beach when they can just as well ask the AI to see you nude in any situation they can dream of... That, or the burka will become very popular
- alunchbox 4y ago
  now that's an interesting perspective on how AI could push certain religions/fashions
kbos87 4y ago
Interestingly, gay men are moving in the opposite direction. The stigma around showing your body in public and online has always been lower for gay men, but there’s been a marked change in the past 5 or so years. De facto gay nude beaches have become much more popular among younger gay men (I’d posit that they’ve always been popular with older gay men.) There’s a pretty likely cause of this - I think gay men are completely desensitized to showing their bodies and being seen thanks to platforms like Grindr, OnlyFans, and the rise of the “alt Twitter.” It’s also easier to discover these places through social media where word of mouth was likely how they continued in the past.
- cptcobalt 4y ago
  I agree, and have seen this, but I think this should be far more normal for more than just gay males. From anecdotal experience, many gay males that share salacious photos of themselves on Twitter (at least where their intent of their account is not only sex/nudity, but to participate in the community of twitter) tend to share healthy and tasteful "thirst traps", semi-nudes, and sometimes nudity. It's rarely "porn" style content, and almost never problematic. And it's also some twitter gays with normal bodies too! That's good. We should celebrate that. That makes twitter the non-ephemeral nude beach.
lnxg33k1 4y ago
Internet for real is killing balls, I like to go out and go crazy a bit at bars at concerts etc and would just like to forget it the next day, instead there are people always with these fucking phones at hand making pics and videos, starting from some components of my group with the tags etc, had to delete all socials I have to let them do the reporters and live my life without being aware of what they publish
- deeth_starr_v 4y ago
  - soupfordummies 4y ago
    Getting a little drunk at a bar or a concert once in a while is a problem?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - AlwaysRock 4y ago
      > I like to go out and go crazy sounds like more than a little drunk. I liked to go get drunk and do stupid shit too but I stopped after I realized I was at an age where doing stupid shit was potentially harmful to my wellbeing and welfare and not worth the fun it provided in the moment.
      - animal_spirits 4y ago
        If someone is doing something and then immediately wanting to forget about it, there might be a reason why they want to forget about it, probably because it’s unhealthy for themselves and for others
        lrvick 4y ago
        Or maybe because it is fun in the moment 9/10 times but that 1/10 it is not makes you want the ability to forget by default and compartmentalize that part of your life.
giantg2 4y ago
Yeah, I could see the internet playing a role. At the same time, it shouldn't really be a big deal if someone took your picture at a nude beach since youre fine with the public seeing you that way... except for how some in society would use it against you (fired from a job, etc; ex pornstars appearently have similar issues). Perhaps we just need more protections from discrimination based on the activities one performs outside of work. Although that may be hard to enforce like most other non-discrimination laws, but a step in the right direction.
- Loughla 4y ago
  >it shouldn't really be a big deal if someone took your picture at a nude beach since youre fine with the public seeing you that way You are just absolutely incorrect. There is a massive and appreciable difference between me being okay with a small group of like-minded individuals seeing me nude at an event or location specifically intended for this, and my nudes being published for literally billions of people to see whenever and wherever they want without my consent. Do you not see that?
  - giantg2 4y ago
    No, I don't. Can you elaborate?
    - jpatt 4y ago
      A nude beach self-selects for people who think that public nudity is not a big deal. You are choosing to be nude around a bunch of people who probably won't care. If only they know about your nudity, no negative consequence is likely to befall you. Outside of your time at a nude beach, you deal with all sorts of people who may think it is a big deal and judge you for that. It may be in your interest to keep such people out of the know of your time at the nude beach. Think neighbors, employers, other parents in your PTA.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        And that was precisely the second half of my comment, dealing with that discrimination.
permo-w 4y ago
American cultural imperialism and its in-built Christian puritanism are clearly to blame here. the internet is just one conduit of that
- confidantlake 4y ago
  You summed up in one sentence what I struggled to convey in multiple paragraphs. Well put.
rkagerer 4y ago
I miss the days when it was considered polite to ask before taking someone's photo.
confidantlake 4y ago
The internet + cameras everywhere is making people much more guarded. In college before we used to get naked and run across the campus at night once a year. By senior year smartphones were ubiquitous and we stopped. Just one of thousands of examples like this.
scotty79 4y ago
Isn't this just American puritanism getting exported through American internet companies way more efficiently than ever before? Why would I care (more) about my naked photo or video be online? It's because there are no naked people photos on the nice internet, only on the naughty internet.
haspoken 4y ago
https://archive.ph/P4F0a https://archive.ph/P4F0a

141 points by fortran77 4y ago

I think their hypothesis is plausible, but I also suspect another factor: the increasing number of overweight and obese people who would feel uncomfortable showing their bodies.

zaxbeast 4y ago
What about swinger clubs? are they more or less popular? There's one around here that is very popular...
- bleachedsleet 4y ago
  In my experience, the clubs cater to a niche. They’re effectively a kink in and of themselves and there’s a very explicit innuendo that sex is to be had on premise. Nude beaches on the other hand are a casual exploration of being clotheless. And while sexuality plays a part, it is not the focus of the experience and is often generally discouraged. I think nude beaches are cultural and thus more prone to the ebb and flow of said culture. Swingers clubs are a fetish and will exist regardless of culture as long as there are people with the kink.
- throwaway920102 4y ago
  Haven't seen stats but it sure feels like ENM and poly are cannibalizing the alternative sexuality world and reducing the popularity of swinging. Which IMO is for heterosexual couples at least a bit of a loss, as swinging seems to favor longer lasting and less self-imploding relationships.
- bongoman37 4y ago
  Photography is usually explicitly forbidden in these spaces.
noduerme 4y ago
not to mention those of us uninterested in seeing their bodies.
- bcraven 4y ago
  The primary purpose of a nude beach is not to look at other people naked, but to enjoy being naked yourself.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    the primary purpose of sex is procreation. Doesn't mean it isn't more appealing to do it with some people than others.
    - smt88 4y ago
      Pleasure is the primary purpose of sex for the vast majority of sexual encounters, including the majority of living people who aren't able to create biological children (due to age, sexuality, medication, or medical issue).
    - trashtester 4y ago
      Arguably the procreation part is WHY it's so much more appealing to do it with some people rather than others. If you (especially as a woman) are going to get pregnant, better make sure the father either is likely to have good genes, social leverage or will help you raise the kid, or ideally all 3. Similarly (but less strong) for men, better make sure the woman is likely to get pregnant (she's not too old), is healthy enough to take care of any baby born (she doesn't have obvious physical defects).
- sandworm101 4y ago
  "Ugh. Nude beaches are full of overweight, out-of-shape old bodies and I don't want to go there and realize I look exactly like that." Bobs Burgers - s03e11
  - noduerme 4y ago
armchairhacker 4y ago
my understanding from Reddit is that most of the people on nude beaches are overweight and old (of course Reddit isn’t really a good source, but I believe them here) It’s actually kind of the opposite: attractive women are less likely to be on nude beaches because they may get harassed by creepy men.
- personalidea 4y ago
  There is a great essay/story by David Sedaris on his experiences on a nude camp site. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4138.Naked?from_search=true https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4138.Naked?from_search=t...
- Nursie 4y ago
  Only nude beach I've ever stumbled across, on a part of the Queensland Coast, was very much this way. Bunch of wrinkly older folks hanging out, very low body-consciousness in general I think, past caring and just having fun.
  - dvsfish 4y ago
    Noosa? Of all the nude beaches in the world, the single one I know about and have been to is (at least presumably) referenced.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      Ha, yes. It was about ten years ago I went for a walk around the coast of the national park area with a small group, on my way travelling up the east coast.
  - worthless-trash 4y ago
    Must be the southern beaches ? Some of the northern beaches are definitely for younger australians and tourists.
    - Nursie 4y ago
cratermoon 4y ago
Perhaps it's more like "the pervasive bias and contempt towards the overweight and obese that have been body-shamed"
mc32 4y ago
Also if the ratio went from more or less 50-50% M:F to now to 90%+ male and the male portion leans heavily older... So women are not showing up and the men who show up are old geezers... So no young woman would want to be looked and stared at especially by the old geezers who are the majority. It's the old "why we can't have nice things". Selfish Bad apples exploiting convention and ruining it for "good citizens"
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decremental 4y ago

wawjgreen 4y ago
gjm11 4y ago
What do you think they are that isn't French or Danish?
- savryn 4y ago
  Is there a meme-term for this type of response, like concern-trolling but like naive-trolling? I see it all the time, someone dares to say uncomfortable reality-based everyone-who-lives-outside-in-real-world heresies and some online person walks by acting like a child born yesterday yet wandering into adult topics and asking them to spell out the dangerous heresy in the most evidence-I-can-screenshot-and-share for manner?
  - jwond 4y ago
    “sealioning” maybe > Sealioning refers to the disingenuous action by a commenter of making an ostensible effort to engage in sincere and serious civil debate, usually by asking persistent questions of the other commenter. These questions are phrased in a way that may come off as an effort to learn and engage with the subject at hand, but are really intended to erode the goodwill of the person to whom they are replying, to get them to appear impatient or to lash out, and therefore come off as unreasonable. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sealioning-internet-trolling https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sealioning-int...
  - kevinventullo 4y ago
    For what it’s worth, I genuinely don’t know what the implicit claim is.
    - 4y ago

chris_armstrong 4y ago

I thought the article touched on an important point: the reluctance to be nude in public is the commodification of bodies (through photography, social media, plastic surgery, porn), where effectively people drawing a line where they did not have to before. I think people are increasingly aware of this in their interactions in public spaces, especially when so much more of our social interactions are up for commodification through social media and the like (even the commodification of sentiment and political issues which is raison detre for many Twitter personalities, journalists and podcast hosts)

echelon 4y ago
I reject that hypothesis outright and submit another one: It's the cameras. They're everywhere now.
- galaxyLogic 4y ago
  I was thinking about the same thing. If you go to nude beach somebody could take your picture and put it online and then when you apply for a job they could find that nude picture and could think there is something wrong about you.
  - stephen_g 4y ago
    Shows there is something wrong with our culture when anybody could think there is something “wrong” about somebody relaxing on a beach while being nude in a non-sexual context…
    - imtringued 4y ago
      Our economy hates full employment so people are always scared of being the one who is unemployed.
    - galaxyLogic 4y ago
      Guardians or the "norms" will use any deviation from norms against you.

anthropodie 4y ago

Maybe it's not Internet but the camera phones? I mean they are everywhere.

boomboomsubban 4y ago
This is mentioned in the article, and while it is a factor, the fear of being photographed would be much lower if it wasn't associated with those photo's being posted online for any future personal associate to see.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  We can go deeper, if we had not invented electricity, jee we wouldn't be able to transmit such data.
  - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
    To sleep, perchance to dream..
  - hackernewds 4y ago
    Everything is the fault of the Big Bang..
    - _Algernon_ 4y ago
      “In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.”
  - birracerveza 4y ago
    If we weren't alive, there wouldn't be crimes!
- checkyoursudo 4y ago
  Posted online where though? I'm sure this is the fear, but the perceived risk surely outweighs the actual risk. It's not like there would be zero repercussions for posting nude beach pics on mainstream social media, and anywhere else (niche, personal website, porn forums/sites) means almost nobody you ever know would ever see pics of you au naturel. Ever. But, yes, I agree this is the fundamental (even if I think irrational) fear.

deadbeeves 4y ago

I think the "sexualization and commodification" explanation is insufficient. The advent of cameras connected to the Internet didn't really add anything in this regard. Someone could always go to a nude beach to gather material mentally, so to speak, and sexualize and commodify the people there. All that changed was how many people would be potentially able to look at the people at the beach. So to me that sounds like plain old shame.

ls15 4y ago
Not exactly. The deal with nude beaches is typically that everyone is nude. Nude people are looking at other nude people. You can see my pubes and I can see your pubes. Clothes are banned. Phones should be too.
- deadbeeves 4y ago
  Which would also have nothing to do with "sexualization and commodification".
- pronlover723 4y ago
  > Phones should be too. Why? In the not too distant future it's likely the majority of people will have cameras implanted in their eyes. Maybe you don't think that will happen but to me it seems inevitable. So jump forward to then, everywhere that cameras are banned now will have to change (immigration at airports, bathrooms, secret rooms at companies, etc...) Sure maybe at first people will say "you can't come in this room unless you turn your eyes off" but it won't be long before that won't be an option or it will be such a large burden that no one will be able to be truly themselves without their enhancements. Or, let's play another thought experiment. Some people are claimed to have photographic memories. What if we invent ML to generate images of those memories and what if they turn how to be close enough representations as to be photos. I'm not saying that would ever come true or even be possible. But as a thought experiment, if it was possible to pull photos out of your head for a few hours, days after you experienced something, what would have to change about any place that current says "no photos". It seems unlikely people would put up with having to quarantine until their memories decay enough to not remember. And, while we're dreaming up the future, there are already implantable memory chips so augmenting yourself in a way your memories don't degrade is certainly some not too distant possibility I know the people who would hate these futures will downvote this comment but to, those are the same people who in the 80s thought at world where everyone has a cellphone and can be reached 24/7 and call anyone in the world was some kind of hell. And yet here we are.

TheRealPomax 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
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ifsothen 4y ago

aaron695 4y ago

paul7986 4y ago

In the U.S. Gunnison Beach in northern New Jersey is packed with naked sunbathers of all walks of life throughout the summer. If you are a bi, curious or gay then it's even more a place you'd enjoy. Same goes for Miami's Haulover Beach, yet compared to Gunnison there's 65% nude sunbathers there vs. 95% at Gunnison. Though the water is a ton warmer and the sand is a ton softer stepping into the ocean at Haulover. I hear there's another popular one in San Diego called Black's Beach where anything goes there. The other two beaches I mentioned are patrolled and sexual activity is prohibited! If you wear a hat and sunglasses you are pretty much are an anonymous naked person amongst 100s of other naked people. If you havent tried it and enjoy being naked around other people and aren't self conscious you will really enjoy it. It's very freeing and it's 100% no judgement zone cause again all walks of life(30% older folks to 30% heavy folks to 40% people from 20 to 50 who are mostly in shape to average; males definitely outweigh females in numbers) are there naked to enjoy a unique/fun/freeing/no judgement experience.

deleted 4y ago
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Broken_Hippo 4y ago
* If you are a bi, curious or gay then it's even more a place you'd enjoy.* I don't think you understand how very uncomfortable places like changing rooms are for this bisexual person and you are definitely overlooking the fact that in most places with shared nudity, it is extremely rude to stare. Additionally, what the actual heck - do you think queer folks are inherently more "horny" or lustful with their gaze than straight people? I guess I just don't understand the stereotypes you are working with. And honestly, if I want to see naked people, I can find them on the internet. It wasn't really an issue before the internet either and I was a long way from any nude beaches.
- JamesBarney 4y ago
  I just thought he was implying there were more naked guys, and assumed gay or bi men enjoyed looking at naked guys more than straight ones. That doesn't seem like a crazy assumption to me.

bcherny 4y ago

I didn’t see Japan mentioned. I wonder how the popularity of onsens (gender-separated nude spas) compares with the declining popularity of European mixed-gender nude beaches.

mantas 4y ago
And european separated gender beaches too. Locally it looks like women-only beach is most popular of women/men/mixed.
elric 4y ago
Mixed nude beaches might be on the decline, but mixed nude spas certainly aren't. New ones are popping up in the Germany/Netherlands/Belgium region every day. Japan is a bit different when it comes to baths. Traditionally many Japanese homes didn't have a bath, public baths remained popular far longer than they did in Europe. Having free hot (volcanic) water available also helps, which I guess is easier to exploit in a large onsen than it is at home. Also, they do have mixed onsen, but those are pretty rare (these days?).
- valarauko 4y ago
  > Also, they do have mixed onsen, but those are pretty rare (these days?) My impression was that onsen had areas divided by gender, and mixed onsen weren't nude?

philwelch 4y ago

I haven’t been there since COVID but at the time, it didn’t seem to be affected.

blt 4y ago

A bit disappointed that the author quoted so many people speculating on the thought processes of young people, but did not ask any young people their feelings. (or asked but chose not to report)

arblor 4y ago
It's just the usual newspaper argument linking X to rise of technology-bad. As a young Euro myself I love nude beaches, but rarely went there with friends my age; I think the most common answer was "It's something for old people". Second most common I something about body awareness/fear of being ugly, which is more common in my generation and young people in general. Of course, nobody I talked to mentioned fear of becoming an unintentional pornstar.
- aulin 4y ago
  I think this is the answer. Both your points are two aspects of the same idea. It's something for old people because old people have the maturity needed to be comfortable with their own body in public. Younger generations are victim of the fake beauty standards promoted by social networks and maybe porn and are a lot more self conscious. Online nudity is filtered, fake, staged, edited... when you go to a nude beach there are no filters, no perfect lighting, no make up, just the bright sun that highlights all your imperfections for all to see.
  - MrZander 4y ago
    To be fair, I think it's much less likely that some creep is going to try to record an old person and post it on the internet as opposed to an attractive younger person...
goethes_kind 4y ago
I don't think the individuals know why the norm exist. It is probably an emergent phenomenon and not something that each individual thinks about or even decides for themselves. I am one of these young people and I just never thought about it. On this particular matter I just do like everyone else because I have no reason to deviate from the norm. Tbh, I do not see why nudism is attractive. Just does not appeal to me. However on a couple of occasion I did go skinny dipping, but more out of the necessity of not having planned for the swim, rather than out of some life philosophy that my penis must be in view of others.

rglullis 4y ago

bergenty 4y ago
That doesn’t change anything. What a bigoted reach of a comment.
- aulin 4y ago
  a big influx of people from countries and cultures way less open towards nudity and sexuality doesn't change anything? It would be the same if immigration came from the puritan regions of US.
  - EdwardDiego 4y ago
    What mechanism do you propose? Muslims arrived, then X, therefore less nudism. What's X?
    - aulin 4y ago
      1. young muslims are way less inclined to get nude in public: more young muslims, less young nudists 2. locals felt safer before because they were nude among people with the same culture towards nudity, now they don't anymore because there's a bigger chance to be sexualized by people from different cultures
      - usrusr 4y ago
        3. in a culturally diverse group, who would suggest something like a spontaneous nude dip? Nobody, to avoid embarrassing someone, just in case, even if in fact every9ne involved would be perfectly up to it. Things like that are far more likely to happen in a group where everybody comes from the same village.
        EdwardDiego 4y ago

Barrin92 4y ago

>Torben Larson, the chairman of the Danish Naturists association (naturist is another term for nudist) told me that he was less convinced that the rate of nude bathing is universally declining—he senses that it is increasing among older Danes—but agreed that younger generations seem much less interested in nude bathing, and in other nude activities, for that matter. My personal theory borne out by the age gap is the influence of American/Anglo culture on young generations. Contrary to popular opinion which seems to be convinced that the youth has no limits I think my generation (people in their 20s/30s) is incredibly sexless, prude and neurotic about just about anything, taking most social cues from the English speaking internet. My family is half ex East-German and West German and that split on nudity / FKK (free body culture) is extremely pronounced as well. I don't think the "camera surveillance" theory holds up because given what else people do on camera for clicks and attention indicates that there's more shame going around. Particular the youth does not seem to care if they're caught on camera doing just about anything.

fxtentacle 4y ago

Back in university, we sometimes organized nude swimming events for students. We had a private lake, so nobody from the general public was bothered. Sometimes, old couples would walk by, giggle, and then go their ways. But then video cameras became cheap and easy enough to use. So eventually, a creepy old man showed up and started filming our swimming event without anyone's consent. As part of the organization team, it was my duty to confront him and ask for him to wipe the tapes. His wife had died, he was lonely and horny and just wanted to capture his lucky sight for himself. So we succeeded after a long discussion and he let me wipe the tape. But the damage was done. Afterwards, everyone was afraid of being filmed without consent again. We never got enough sign-ups for another event after that.

hackernewds 4y ago
We = were you head of the fraternity? Affiliated with the university?
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  Nope. I was just a regular student. But I was part of a group of friends who thought this would be fun so we just privately organized beach parties. Except we didn't have a real beach.
daenz 4y ago
>But the damage was done. Afterwards, everyone was afraid of being filmed without consent again. Devil's advocate, but isn't the point of being nude in public that you are destigmatizing it? I know you mentioned this was a "private lake" but it is unclear of if you mean legally private or de facto private. In case of the latter, even creepers have a right to be there and film. I used to visit a nude beach and there was always some clothed weirdo with their phone out. They would get unfriendly looks by everyone though, and I think the ostracization kept them on the outskirts of the community.
- aqme28 4y ago
  That’s not the point of being nude in public. For some people sure. Others like the freedom of it. In either case, most just want an ephemeral experience, and don’t want permanent recordings.

hoseja 4y ago

>"such as rising populations of people from cultures and religions that aren’t as tolerant of public nudity"

kasperni 4y ago

Bare breasts have definitely been making a comeback the last couple of years in the public room in Denmark. Now it is just an individual choice instead of something everyone does like 40 years ago. A much better article on how going topless has changed over the last 50 years in Denmark is [1]. [1] https://www-dr-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/indland/nye-toploese-tider-der-er-ingen-der-skal-sige-det-kan-jeg-ikke?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=da&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-dr-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/indland/nye-toploes...

simongray 4y ago
You do see it, but it's really not that common. As an example, here's a walk through one of the Copenhagen harbour baths in 2022: https://youtu.be/S8t6sYECNUI https://youtu.be/S8t6sYECNUI
- netsharc 4y ago
  The act of you linking the video in this context is very ironic. Yeah, I wonder why girls are less topless nowadays -- maybe because the chances of their private parts ending up on YouTube is much higher?
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Or is it that they are considering breasts as private now, when they weren't (or not as much) as before? If it's normal and there's no social stigma, then who cares. But now if there is increasing stigma, at least in that the images could be used against you in the future, then that seems more like the problem.
    - netsharc 4y ago
      This is probably in the article (I haven't read it...), but my guess is, in the past they probably didn't care if people had a glimpse, there were no cameras, and most people were polite enough not to ogle; but nowadays people can just pull out their phones and record for (presumably) their sexual gratification later. Warning, this is analysis from not an anthropologist/sociologist: Maybe the prevalance of porn and screens to view them on has also made for creepier men/men who are now more used to viewing women as objects. I remember reading an article many years ago about how teenage girls are acting more like porn stars because they believe that's what attracts guys...

LatteLazy 4y ago

I'm 38. Boys about 10 years older than me were required to swim nude in the school pool. I was required to use the communal shower nude after sports 3 times a week at school. Boys 10 years younger than me were not required to do so. I've noticed at the gym etc that guys 10+ years younger than me are pretty sheepish about being nude. Even in the gym changing room they change behind a towel. I bare all and don't really care. I've wondered if that experience in youth had equiped me well for later life where I don't really care...

valarauko 4y ago
I'm roughly the same age, though an immigrant from a part of the world where nudity wasn't common even at the gym locker room. I do notice the same trend in the locker rooms here - younger men do get naked but turn away while they change, and almost only at the locker. Older men are much more likely to walk around naked, with none of the turning away business.

hourago 4y ago

In Spain there is a famous case were a judge ruled that filming and publishing videos of people while they pee in the forest is legal as it is a public space. The guy that was spying and filming on the back of concert in the forest won the case. So, for now, the law, in Spain, does not help people to feel safe being nude in any public space. I think that it is important that citizens can record and have proof of things that happen in public spaces, but this case seems to push that boundary.

elric 4y ago

Not just the nude beach. Also the gym shower. All older sporting facilities in my neck of the woods have communal showers (typically gender segregated, though I've seen some exceptions). People used to get naked and wash (as one does in a shower). More and more, (young) people have started showering with underwear. Newer sporting facilities have started catering to this trend by providing individual shower cubibles. Which seems a bit silly, as you're far more likely to take a long time in a cubicle, thus wasting more water and more time. In a communal shower, you can just give someone the stink eye if they're taking too long ... no such luck in a locked cubicle. I don't think this is a good thing. If you're not seeing any "normal" naked bodies, and are only ever exposed to idealized movie/porn bodies, aren't you more likely to get all kinds of body issues?

themerone 4y ago
Why do you care about other people wasting time?
- najra 4y ago
  probably because the number of showers is limited and they're making other people wait?
- rout39574 4y ago
  Limited hot water
tzs 4y ago
> In a communal shower, you can just give someone the stink eye if they're taking too long ... no such luck in a locked cubicle. How do you know someone else is taking too long unless you also have been in the communal shower too long?
- LeifCarrotson 4y ago
  The frustration builds when you're waiting in line for the communal shower. At my local gym, there were 12 communal showers, but it was common for a class to be scheduled with an end time at 6:00 or 6:30 on the dot, so in addition to the steady traffic from the pool, weight room, or the ergs, you'd have a sudden exodus of 20 or 30 guys (or 50 in January) all waiting in line for showers so we could get to work on time. Then (in spite of signs prohibiting phone use in the locker rooms) people started using their phones for messaging/emails, usually conspicuously held within the locker or otherwise aimed so that they couldn't be used for photos...then they converted the showers to 8 private cubicles. Even with 8 instead of 12, it was no big deal if people were taking 3 minutes to rinse off the sweat. Whether you left at 6:33, 6:36, or 6:39 was not a problem. But if 10 or 20% of people were treating the shower like a sauna, luxuriating in the steam until their fingers and toes got wrinkly, throughput went down the drain along with those gallons and gallons of hot water... you might have to wait until 7:00 to take a shower after your 6:30 spin class. Putting a lightswitch which had a 10-minute timer outside the cubicle, plus a sign urging users to conserve water and take showers shorter than 5 minutes, was a big improvement. However, lots of people would do everything they could to minimize perceived awkward nakedness in the communal showers, getting clean in record time, but feel no such pressure in a cubicle.

cookieswumchorr 4y ago

maybe with the adoption of remote work we can, in future, decouple our professional identities from our private ones. The idea is: your private life is too unpredictable to effectively protect data from leaking. You have hobbies, friends, family, you end up buying tons of stuff, going to places. Professional life, on the other side, tends to be more organized. What if, in future, you can work online under a username, decoupled from your IRL self. this is already the case for some folks who get tasks on freelance platforms and get paid in crypto. Maybe in future this could become more accepted, and more legal (as in paying taxes, but without compromising privacy too much)

slfnflctd 4y ago
I absolutely love this, but that's not the direction the world is headed. If we're to make anything close to what you describe widespread, I think a minimum of two ingredients is needed-- 1, multiple collectives/co-ops of multiple semi-anonymous people who are willing to pool their reputations together (who need to trust each other somewhat so might need potentially identifying info to cement that initially), and 2, companies or investors willing to take a chance on such collectives by putting them to work and developing a rating system. I think doing both at the same time would be difficult to say the least. Could be a challenge worth learning from for some brave folks, though.

xeromal 4y ago

I have no real data on this, but I'd assume some of this is also due to fear of skin cancer. I assume less people sunbathe in general and and the less skin exposed, the better. My nether regions have never seen the sun and I aim to keep it that way. Who wants penis skin cancer or breast skin cancer?

foobarbecue 4y ago

As a teenager I went to a Quaker summer camp with a lake where everyone swam naked if they wanted, counselors included. It felt healthy. The camp had very strong messaging about respect and how the body can be naked without being sexualized. Actually the rules were that anyone could be naked anywhere, which made communal living much easier, what with showering and people who like to sleep naked. I guess they probably can't do that any more (but I haven't asked).

almostdigital 4y ago

Camera phones killed it but generative AI models will revive it. Who cares if someone takes a photo of you on the beach when they can just as well ask the AI to see you nude in any situation they can dream of... That, or the burka will become very popular

alunchbox 4y ago
now that's an interesting perspective on how AI could push certain religions/fashions

kbos87 4y ago

Interestingly, gay men are moving in the opposite direction. The stigma around showing your body in public and online has always been lower for gay men, but there’s been a marked change in the past 5 or so years. De facto gay nude beaches have become much more popular among younger gay men (I’d posit that they’ve always been popular with older gay men.) There’s a pretty likely cause of this - I think gay men are completely desensitized to showing their bodies and being seen thanks to platforms like Grindr, OnlyFans, and the rise of the “alt Twitter.” It’s also easier to discover these places through social media where word of mouth was likely how they continued in the past.

cptcobalt 4y ago
I agree, and have seen this, but I think this should be far more normal for more than just gay males. From anecdotal experience, many gay males that share salacious photos of themselves on Twitter (at least where their intent of their account is not only sex/nudity, but to participate in the community of twitter) tend to share healthy and tasteful "thirst traps", semi-nudes, and sometimes nudity. It's rarely "porn" style content, and almost never problematic. And it's also some twitter gays with normal bodies too! That's good. We should celebrate that. That makes twitter the non-ephemeral nude beach.

lnxg33k1 4y ago

Internet for real is killing balls, I like to go out and go crazy a bit at bars at concerts etc and would just like to forget it the next day, instead there are people always with these fucking phones at hand making pics and videos, starting from some components of my group with the tags etc, had to delete all socials I have to let them do the reporters and live my life without being aware of what they publish

deeth_starr_v 4y ago
- soupfordummies 4y ago
  Getting a little drunk at a bar or a concert once in a while is a problem?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - AlwaysRock 4y ago
    > I like to go out and go crazy sounds like more than a little drunk. I liked to go get drunk and do stupid shit too but I stopped after I realized I was at an age where doing stupid shit was potentially harmful to my wellbeing and welfare and not worth the fun it provided in the moment.
    - animal_spirits 4y ago
      If someone is doing something and then immediately wanting to forget about it, there might be a reason why they want to forget about it, probably because it’s unhealthy for themselves and for others
      - lrvick 4y ago
        Or maybe because it is fun in the moment 9/10 times but that 1/10 it is not makes you want the ability to forget by default and compartmentalize that part of your life.

giantg2 4y ago

Yeah, I could see the internet playing a role. At the same time, it shouldn't really be a big deal if someone took your picture at a nude beach since youre fine with the public seeing you that way... except for how some in society would use it against you (fired from a job, etc; ex pornstars appearently have similar issues). Perhaps we just need more protections from discrimination based on the activities one performs outside of work. Although that may be hard to enforce like most other non-discrimination laws, but a step in the right direction.

Loughla 4y ago
>it shouldn't really be a big deal if someone took your picture at a nude beach since youre fine with the public seeing you that way You are just absolutely incorrect. There is a massive and appreciable difference between me being okay with a small group of like-minded individuals seeing me nude at an event or location specifically intended for this, and my nudes being published for literally billions of people to see whenever and wherever they want without my consent. Do you not see that?
- giantg2 4y ago
  No, I don't. Can you elaborate?
  - jpatt 4y ago
    A nude beach self-selects for people who think that public nudity is not a big deal. You are choosing to be nude around a bunch of people who probably won't care. If only they know about your nudity, no negative consequence is likely to befall you. Outside of your time at a nude beach, you deal with all sorts of people who may think it is a big deal and judge you for that. It may be in your interest to keep such people out of the know of your time at the nude beach. Think neighbors, employers, other parents in your PTA.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      And that was precisely the second half of my comment, dealing with that discrimination.

permo-w 4y ago

American cultural imperialism and its in-built Christian puritanism are clearly to blame here. the internet is just one conduit of that

confidantlake 4y ago
You summed up in one sentence what I struggled to convey in multiple paragraphs. Well put.

rkagerer 4y ago

I miss the days when it was considered polite to ask before taking someone's photo.

confidantlake 4y ago

The internet + cameras everywhere is making people much more guarded. In college before we used to get naked and run across the campus at night once a year. By senior year smartphones were ubiquitous and we stopped. Just one of thousands of examples like this.

scotty79 4y ago

Isn't this just American puritanism getting exported through American internet companies way more efficiently than ever before? Why would I care (more) about my naked photo or video be online? It's because there are no naked people photos on the nice internet, only on the naughty internet.

haspoken 4y ago

https://archive.ph/P4F0a https://archive.ph/P4F0a