7 ms·

I'm starting to feel more hopeful about the US's digital infrastructure. If this goes well instant payments will be available with no ACH 2 day withdrawal dela

I'm starting to feel more hopeful about the US's digital infrastructure. If this goes well instant payments will be available with no ACH 2 day withdrawal delay. The IRS is exploring a system for people to file taxes online. The State Department is building a system to renew your passport totally online. I think the last two items are a result of the Inflation Reduction Act. I hope this momentum continues and we can continue making as many government services available digitally. While some will complain how bad these systems will be - I'd rather at least have them than not and allow them to improve. The sooner the better.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ed25519FUUU 4y ago
Extremely sad we need to give the IRS $80 billion to accomplish something they should have provided decades ago.
- Ductapemaster 4y ago
  You’re way off. The money earmarked for that project is $15 million, and it’s for a study on how the IRS would implement such a system.
  - jetrink 4y ago
    Source (PDF): https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11977 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11977 > In addition, the IRS would receive $15 million under this bill to fund a task force that would study the cost and feasibility of creating a free direct e-file program.
    - andsoitis 4y ago
      And the next sentence: "The agency previously committed not to create its own tax filing software as part of an alliance called the Free File Program. In exchange, private tax filing software companies agreed to provide free services to low- and moderate-income taxpayers." And then continues: "Roughly 4% of eligible taxpayers used the Free File Program’s private providers to file their taxes in 2020. Intuit and H&R Block, who previously represented two-thirds of the program’s usage, both left the agreement in the past three years."
  - zionic 4y ago
    $15 Million to “study”… “how they would implement it” How should I say it, “come on man”?
    - gkoberger 4y ago
      Hey, I don't disagree government spending numbers can be crazy, but building a system for 330,000,000 people across 50 states that works flawlessly (and is responsible for trillions of dollars) isn't easy. I'm personally okay with $15M... that's like salaries for 25 people for two years. To put that number into perspective, TurboTax spent about that much money on lobbying alone from 2018-2012.
      - nonethewiser 4y ago
        > building a system for 330,000,000 people across 50 states that works flawlessly (and is responsible for trillions of dollars) isn't easy Which is why they should pay real experts to do it. For less.
        gkoberger 4y ago
        If I were an expert and the government came to me and my team with this project, I'd definitely charge at least $15M.
        westurner 4y ago
        What do you think has been spent on developing Blockchain/DLT from 2007 to present? Is it more than $15m? Mostly amateur open source or corporate open source contributions? - Bitcoin has an MIT License, for example - XRPL and Stellar can do the payments volume; the TPS report; whereas otherwise you're building another Layer 2 system without Interledger. - Flare does EVM (Ethereum Virtual Machine) Smart Contracts with XRPL; $<0.01/tx, network tx fees are just burned, 5 second transaction/ledger close time. Notes re: Interledger addresses, SPSP, WebMonetization: https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-32515531 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-32515531 , > From "NIST Special Publication 800-181 Revision 1: Workforce Framework for Cybersecurity (NICE Framework)" (2020) https://doi.org/10.6028/NIST.SP.800-181r1 https://doi.org/10.6028/NIST.SP.800-181r1 : >> 3.1 Using Existing Task, Knowledge, and Skill (TKS) Statements > (Edit) FedNOW should - like mCBDC - really consider implementing Interledger Protocol (ILP) for RTGS "Real-Time Gross Settlement" https://interledger.org/developer-tools/get-started/overview/ https://interledger.org/developer-tools/get-started/overview... > From https://interledger.org/rfcs/0032-peering-clearing-settlement/ https://interledger.org/rfcs/0032-peering-clearing-settlemen... : > Peering, Clearing and Settling; The Interledger network is a graph of nodes (connectors) that have peered with one another by establishing a means of exchanging ILP packets and a means of paying one another for the successful forwarding and delivery of the packets. > […] Accounts and Balances: The edge between any two nodes (peers) is a communication link (for exchanging ILP packets and other data), and an account held between the peers (the Interledger account). The Interledger account has a balance denominated in a mutually agreed upon asset (e.g. USD) at an agreed upon scale (e.g. 2). The balance on the account is the net total of the amounts on any packets “successfully” routed between the peers. > The balance on the Interledger account can only change as a result of two events: > 1. The “successful” routing of an ILP packet between the two peers > 2. A payment made between the peers on the underlying payment network they have agreed to use to settle the Interledger account And then you realize you're sharing payment address information over a different but comparably-unsecured channel in a non-stanfardized way; From https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0009-simple-payment-setup-protocol/0009-simple-payment-setup-protocol.md#relation-to-other-protocols https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0009-simple-... : > Relation to Other Protocols: SPSP is used for exchanging connection information before an ILP payment or data transfer is initiated To do a complete business process, there's – e.g. TradeLens, GSBN, and – signaling around transactions, which then necessarily depends upon another - hopefully also cryptographically-secured and HA Highly Available - information system with API version(s) and database schema(s) unless there's something like Interledger SPSP Simple Payment Setup Protocol and Payment Pointers, which also solve for micropayments to accountably support creators; https://WebMonetization.org/ https://WebMonetization.org/ .
  - boberoni 4y ago
    That sounds likes a $15 million design doc.
    - donw 4y ago
      I think it's for the pre-design doc.
      - hackernewds 4y ago
        Terrible misuse of public funds. Why not just depend on a private entity with the right watchers in place?
        res0nat0r 4y ago
        Some things the government does doesn't have to be profitable, it does them because it is a good thing for a government to do.
        o_1 4y ago
        The government serves the people. A high value opportunity hasn't been slow payments. Poor tax code is way more expensive than anything else.
        donw 4y ago
        The government serves the government. "The people" only matter towards that end.
        largepeepee 4y ago
        The govt serves the people, but if there are corporations that can manipulate the people to think in their interests, they can get the govt to serve them.
        4y ago
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    Yikes, that's atrocious
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  The IRS has been underfunded and understaffed and demonized for a couple of decades. They've been strictly not allowed nor funded to develop online or automatic tax filing for awhile now, largely in part due to lobbying from intuit, H&R block, etc. I've worked in tax for a few years now, and that's basically the simplified overview of the situation.
  - treeman79 4y ago
    IRS has frequently been used as a tool to go after political opponents.
    - jandrese 4y ago
      Or some people try to politicize their tax dodging when they get caught.
      - freedomben 4y ago
        > > IRS has frequently been used as a tool to go after political opponents. > Or some people try to politicize their tax dodging when they get caught. I don't see why that has to be an "or." the statements are not mutually exclusive (i.e. they can both be simultaneously true)
        eynsham 4y ago
        I don’t see why that has to be read as an ‘xor’.
    - dimitrios1 4y ago
      To the downvoters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy and Historically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_allegations_of_misuse_of_the_Internal_Revenue_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_allegations_of_misuse_...
      - 4y ago
- pavlov 4y ago
  First you cut the budget for decades, then you complain why the agency needs more money to do the job they should have been doing decades ago.
lettergram 4y ago
> I'm starting to feel more hopeful about the US's digital infrastructure. The real American way is to have no government involvement. Arguably no federal reserve. Banks already created Zelle which works great. Get cash instantly with a phone number. I personally prefer cash but w.e. (Don’t want to be tracked) Why do I need the government implementing another solution that already exists. Particularly one that has partisan actors at the top of the board. No thanks.
- chirau 4y ago
  Are you equating Zelle to Faster Payments? No offense, but I really don't think you know enough about payments clearing if you are making such a statement.
  - lettergram 4y ago
    Lol having spent 7 years at a major bank in the R&D space, I know quite a bit. It really depends what you mean about payment clearing. With Zelle you can send someone money in a few seconds. I’ve done transactions up to a couple thousand. That said it doesn’t “clear” immediately if that’s what you mean. Typically, I can use the funds within 3-5 min, so idk seems pretty darn fast.
    - nixgeek 4y ago
      This seems a reasonable summary and FedNow is stated as being faster to settle than Zelle. https://www.paymentsjournal.com/the-distinctions-between-faster-payments-and-real-time-payments/ https://www.paymentsjournal.com/the-distinctions-between-fas...
    - imtringued 4y ago
      Ok but please read up on FedNow so you remain an expert.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- ryaniscool 4y ago
spraveenitpro 4y ago
pipodeclown 4y ago
Wait you guys don't have online taxes yet?!?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ed25519FUUU 4y ago

Extremely sad we need to give the IRS $80 billion to accomplish something they should have provided decades ago.

Ductapemaster 4y ago
You’re way off. The money earmarked for that project is $15 million, and it’s for a study on how the IRS would implement such a system.
- jetrink 4y ago
  Source (PDF): https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11977 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11977 > In addition, the IRS would receive $15 million under this bill to fund a task force that would study the cost and feasibility of creating a free direct e-file program.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    And the next sentence: "The agency previously committed not to create its own tax filing software as part of an alliance called the Free File Program. In exchange, private tax filing software companies agreed to provide free services to low- and moderate-income taxpayers." And then continues: "Roughly 4% of eligible taxpayers used the Free File Program’s private providers to file their taxes in 2020. Intuit and H&R Block, who previously represented two-thirds of the program’s usage, both left the agreement in the past three years."
- zionic 4y ago
  $15 Million to “study”… “how they would implement it” How should I say it, “come on man”?
  - gkoberger 4y ago
    Hey, I don't disagree government spending numbers can be crazy, but building a system for 330,000,000 people across 50 states that works flawlessly (and is responsible for trillions of dollars) isn't easy. I'm personally okay with $15M... that's like salaries for 25 people for two years. To put that number into perspective, TurboTax spent about that much money on lobbying alone from 2018-2012.
    - nonethewiser 4y ago
      > building a system for 330,000,000 people across 50 states that works flawlessly (and is responsible for trillions of dollars) isn't easy Which is why they should pay real experts to do it. For less.
      - gkoberger 4y ago
        If I were an expert and the government came to me and my team with this project, I'd definitely charge at least $15M.
        westurner 4y ago
        What do you think has been spent on developing Blockchain/DLT from 2007 to present? Is it more than $15m? Mostly amateur open source or corporate open source contributions? - Bitcoin has an MIT License, for example - XRPL and Stellar can do the payments volume; the TPS report; whereas otherwise you're building another Layer 2 system without Interledger. - Flare does EVM (Ethereum Virtual Machine) Smart Contracts with XRPL; $<0.01/tx, network tx fees are just burned, 5 second transaction/ledger close time. Notes re: Interledger addresses, SPSP, WebMonetization: https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-32515531 https://westurner.github.io/hnlog/#comment-32515531 , > From "NIST Special Publication 800-181 Revision 1: Workforce Framework for Cybersecurity (NICE Framework)" (2020) https://doi.org/10.6028/NIST.SP.800-181r1 https://doi.org/10.6028/NIST.SP.800-181r1 : >> 3.1 Using Existing Task, Knowledge, and Skill (TKS) Statements > (Edit) FedNOW should - like mCBDC - really consider implementing Interledger Protocol (ILP) for RTGS "Real-Time Gross Settlement" https://interledger.org/developer-tools/get-started/overview/ https://interledger.org/developer-tools/get-started/overview... > From https://interledger.org/rfcs/0032-peering-clearing-settlement/ https://interledger.org/rfcs/0032-peering-clearing-settlemen... : > Peering, Clearing and Settling; The Interledger network is a graph of nodes (connectors) that have peered with one another by establishing a means of exchanging ILP packets and a means of paying one another for the successful forwarding and delivery of the packets. > […] Accounts and Balances: The edge between any two nodes (peers) is a communication link (for exchanging ILP packets and other data), and an account held between the peers (the Interledger account). The Interledger account has a balance denominated in a mutually agreed upon asset (e.g. USD) at an agreed upon scale (e.g. 2). The balance on the account is the net total of the amounts on any packets “successfully” routed between the peers. > The balance on the Interledger account can only change as a result of two events: > 1. The “successful” routing of an ILP packet between the two peers > 2. A payment made between the peers on the underlying payment network they have agreed to use to settle the Interledger account And then you realize you're sharing payment address information over a different but comparably-unsecured channel in a non-stanfardized way; From https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0009-simple-payment-setup-protocol/0009-simple-payment-setup-protocol.md#relation-to-other-protocols https://github.com/interledger/rfcs/blob/master/0009-simple-... : > Relation to Other Protocols: SPSP is used for exchanging connection information before an ILP payment or data transfer is initiated To do a complete business process, there's – e.g. TradeLens, GSBN, and – signaling around transactions, which then necessarily depends upon another - hopefully also cryptographically-secured and HA Highly Available - information system with API version(s) and database schema(s) unless there's something like Interledger SPSP Simple Payment Setup Protocol and Payment Pointers, which also solve for micropayments to accountably support creators; https://WebMonetization.org/ https://WebMonetization.org/ .
- boberoni 4y ago
  That sounds likes a $15 million design doc.
  - donw 4y ago
    I think it's for the pre-design doc.
    - hackernewds 4y ago
      Terrible misuse of public funds. Why not just depend on a private entity with the right watchers in place?
      - res0nat0r 4y ago
        Some things the government does doesn't have to be profitable, it does them because it is a good thing for a government to do.
        o_1 4y ago
        The government serves the people. A high value opportunity hasn't been slow payments. Poor tax code is way more expensive than anything else.
        donw 4y ago
        The government serves the government. "The people" only matter towards that end.
        largepeepee 4y ago
        The govt serves the people, but if there are corporations that can manipulate the people to think in their interests, they can get the govt to serve them.
        4y ago
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Yikes, that's atrocious
formerkrogemp 4y ago
The IRS has been underfunded and understaffed and demonized for a couple of decades. They've been strictly not allowed nor funded to develop online or automatic tax filing for awhile now, largely in part due to lobbying from intuit, H&R block, etc. I've worked in tax for a few years now, and that's basically the simplified overview of the situation.
- treeman79 4y ago
  IRS has frequently been used as a tool to go after political opponents.
  - jandrese 4y ago
    Or some people try to politicize their tax dodging when they get caught.
    - freedomben 4y ago
      > > IRS has frequently been used as a tool to go after political opponents. > Or some people try to politicize their tax dodging when they get caught. I don't see why that has to be an "or." the statements are not mutually exclusive (i.e. they can both be simultaneously true)
      - eynsham 4y ago
        I don’t see why that has to be read as an ‘xor’.
  - dimitrios1 4y ago
    To the downvoters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy and Historically: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_allegations_of_misuse_of_the_Internal_Revenue_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_allegations_of_misuse_...
    - 4y ago
pavlov 4y ago
First you cut the budget for decades, then you complain why the agency needs more money to do the job they should have been doing decades ago.

lettergram 4y ago

> I'm starting to feel more hopeful about the US's digital infrastructure. The real American way is to have no government involvement. Arguably no federal reserve. Banks already created Zelle which works great. Get cash instantly with a phone number. I personally prefer cash but w.e. (Don’t want to be tracked) Why do I need the government implementing another solution that already exists. Particularly one that has partisan actors at the top of the board. No thanks.

chirau 4y ago
Are you equating Zelle to Faster Payments? No offense, but I really don't think you know enough about payments clearing if you are making such a statement.
- lettergram 4y ago
  Lol having spent 7 years at a major bank in the R&D space, I know quite a bit. It really depends what you mean about payment clearing. With Zelle you can send someone money in a few seconds. I’ve done transactions up to a couple thousand. That said it doesn’t “clear” immediately if that’s what you mean. Typically, I can use the funds within 3-5 min, so idk seems pretty darn fast.
  - nixgeek 4y ago
    This seems a reasonable summary and FedNow is stated as being faster to settle than Zelle. https://www.paymentsjournal.com/the-distinctions-between-faster-payments-and-real-time-payments/ https://www.paymentsjournal.com/the-distinctions-between-fas...
  - imtringued 4y ago
    Ok but please read up on FedNow so you remain an expert.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
ryaniscool 4y ago

spraveenitpro 4y ago

pipodeclown 4y ago

Wait you guys don't have online taxes yet?!?