7 ms·

More like, "nobody wants to work for $12 an hour anymore", or "we won't accept anything less than a Bachelor's and 5 years experience, and won't pay more than $

by t-3 4y ago

More like, "nobody wants to work for $12 an hour anymore", or "we won't accept anything less than a Bachelor's and 5 years experience, and won't pay more than $20 an hour, so nobody wants to work anymore". Every time there's these complaints about worker shortages, the only shortage is in pay rate, benefits, and willingness to train.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
senttoschool 4y ago
>Every time there's these complaints about worker shortages, the only shortage is in pay rate, benefits, and willingness to train. No, it could mean that the market is booming and pay rates haven't caught up. IE, what happened during the Covid-era of 0% interest rates. It could also mean that handouts are making people not work as hard or not wanting to work for less in general.
- etchalon 4y ago
  The "its the handouts!" theory was tested when different states deprecated unemployment benefits earlier than others and did not see any significant changes in their labor market. Also, those "handouts" have long since expired and the labor issues remain.
- jonlucc 4y ago
  Isn't that just a longer way to say that it's a shortage of pay rate, benefits, and willingness to train? If the market is booming, and pay rates haven't caught up, aren't they short?
paulpauper 4y ago
It's like you need 4 year degree and pass a bunch of screening/background tests and interviews to maybe make $20/hour.
adam_arthur 4y ago
Nominal wages have been rising, real wages have been falling. A great victory for labor huh. To be less cryptic, there's a relentless chorus of people advocating for inflationary policies that achieve the exact opposite of their intended effect.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  Recently that has been true, but in the long term the trend has gone towards real wages rising. And we really should be expecting real wages to drop at the moment, that's a sign our economy is doing a good job at reflecting what's going on in the world. I'd be more concerned if they were all going up despite all these issues because it would mean we are at disconnected from reality and that normally comes with a crash after a couple of years There are a few graphs from the US Fed that show it pretty well. Wages got very static after 2008 and started heading back up once we left the Great recession stagnation era. Then we have the drop from recent events such as the war with Russia, covid in China causing lockdowns, supply chain issues. More than likely as things recover it'll start taking up again
  - adam_arthur 4y ago
    Yes, it's good real wages are declining given the inflationary backdrop. But politicians fighting inflation with higher wages and stimulus checks, as well as the chorus of idiots cheering them on, repeating the same mistakes as the 70s, is quite mindblowing. How far do consumer sentiment and approval ratings have to drop for people to wake up to basic economic realities? They didn't have the internet in the 70s, by the way.
    - XorNot 4y ago
      How much money do you think $600 actually is? People have been going on and on as though $600 was too much inflationary pressure. You get that that is less then 1 months rent, right?
      - adam_arthur 4y ago
system2 4y ago
It is a problem that corrects itself. If people do not want the $12 an hour and can afford not working for those companies, there is no problem. If they need it, they will work for that $12. You can say the same thing for $250/hour developer jobs. Some might do it for $5 an hour (well or not can be debated), and some wouldn't touch it for $250/hour. Free market. There are many companies out there to choose from. If the person is qualified, they will find it. If they are not, they will need to get qualified to ask for more money.
- solardev 4y ago
  The availability of desirable jobs and wealth isn't distributed very effectively. It mostly just clumps together and benefits a tiny elite at the expense of our societies and species. The free market never works for very long before hoarders take most of it.
  - curiousgeorgio 4y ago
    > The free market never works for very long before hoarders take most of it. I'm not sure you understand how a labor market works. There may be (and often are) local/temporary inefficiencies, but if "hoarders" are taking most of it, then why are there so many unfilled jobs across the country – including high-paying jobs? Similarly, if employers aren't compensating employees fairly (which may be the case while the market adjusts to inflation + recession), they can only do that for so long before the market effectively forces them to pay/treat employees more favorably (no government intervention necessary).
    - solardev 4y ago
      I don't think these are mutually exclusive. There can be a local deficit within an industry, and we might not be able to meet that demand with our labor pipeline. At the same time, there can be an overall deficit of meaningful work for decent enough wages at the societal level. The hoarders can selectively employ people who will make them richer, all while the rest of society continues to crumble around them. That's what's been happening in America for decades. Either you're in the upper class or things or actively getting worse.
downboots 4y ago
That's near the top 20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income
mc32 4y ago
Surely inflation will not help. that said, before the post-war boomtimes people didn't have an option to "not work". Maybe families could put up with the ne'erdowell, but not society.
cmrdporcupine 4y ago
It feels like the lower you go down the job skill ladder the more the more ridiculous employer demands become. Obv this has to do with supply/demand curve, but it's still frustrating to watch. My hunch when some these places say they can't get talent or etc. they have a particular idea of what they want: young & low pay & desperate. and all the complaining about labour shortage means: a shortage of low pay workers. Esp here in Canada as there was a couple years where the temporary foreign worker program wasn't fully operational due to COVID. My wife is trying to get back into the job market after 10+ years out. There's supposedly been a labour shortage here in Canada. She has -- in addition to being a mature functional adult who has raised a family and managed a home -- almost a decade of work experience (in the past) in marketing and some design at Apple, an honors degree in Anthropology with a boatload of academic awards under her belt, an a two year programme in UX research & design from a local university. She has been applying for junior positions and doesn't even get nibbles. Even local retail jobs etc. she's gone for have not responded.

by t-3 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

senttoschool 4y ago

>Every time there's these complaints about worker shortages, the only shortage is in pay rate, benefits, and willingness to train. No, it could mean that the market is booming and pay rates haven't caught up. IE, what happened during the Covid-era of 0% interest rates. It could also mean that handouts are making people not work as hard or not wanting to work for less in general.

etchalon 4y ago
The "its the handouts!" theory was tested when different states deprecated unemployment benefits earlier than others and did not see any significant changes in their labor market. Also, those "handouts" have long since expired and the labor issues remain.
jonlucc 4y ago
Isn't that just a longer way to say that it's a shortage of pay rate, benefits, and willingness to train? If the market is booming, and pay rates haven't caught up, aren't they short?

paulpauper 4y ago

It's like you need 4 year degree and pass a bunch of screening/background tests and interviews to maybe make $20/hour.

adam_arthur 4y ago

Nominal wages have been rising, real wages have been falling. A great victory for labor huh. To be less cryptic, there's a relentless chorus of people advocating for inflationary policies that achieve the exact opposite of their intended effect.

bioemerl 4y ago
Recently that has been true, but in the long term the trend has gone towards real wages rising. And we really should be expecting real wages to drop at the moment, that's a sign our economy is doing a good job at reflecting what's going on in the world. I'd be more concerned if they were all going up despite all these issues because it would mean we are at disconnected from reality and that normally comes with a crash after a couple of years There are a few graphs from the US Fed that show it pretty well. Wages got very static after 2008 and started heading back up once we left the Great recession stagnation era. Then we have the drop from recent events such as the war with Russia, covid in China causing lockdowns, supply chain issues. More than likely as things recover it'll start taking up again
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  Yes, it's good real wages are declining given the inflationary backdrop. But politicians fighting inflation with higher wages and stimulus checks, as well as the chorus of idiots cheering them on, repeating the same mistakes as the 70s, is quite mindblowing. How far do consumer sentiment and approval ratings have to drop for people to wake up to basic economic realities? They didn't have the internet in the 70s, by the way.
  - XorNot 4y ago
    How much money do you think $600 actually is? People have been going on and on as though $600 was too much inflationary pressure. You get that that is less then 1 months rent, right?
    - adam_arthur 4y ago

system2 4y ago

It is a problem that corrects itself. If people do not want the $12 an hour and can afford not working for those companies, there is no problem. If they need it, they will work for that $12. You can say the same thing for $250/hour developer jobs. Some might do it for $5 an hour (well or not can be debated), and some wouldn't touch it for $250/hour. Free market. There are many companies out there to choose from. If the person is qualified, they will find it. If they are not, they will need to get qualified to ask for more money.

solardev 4y ago
The availability of desirable jobs and wealth isn't distributed very effectively. It mostly just clumps together and benefits a tiny elite at the expense of our societies and species. The free market never works for very long before hoarders take most of it.
- curiousgeorgio 4y ago
  > The free market never works for very long before hoarders take most of it. I'm not sure you understand how a labor market works. There may be (and often are) local/temporary inefficiencies, but if "hoarders" are taking most of it, then why are there so many unfilled jobs across the country – including high-paying jobs? Similarly, if employers aren't compensating employees fairly (which may be the case while the market adjusts to inflation + recession), they can only do that for so long before the market effectively forces them to pay/treat employees more favorably (no government intervention necessary).
  - solardev 4y ago
    I don't think these are mutually exclusive. There can be a local deficit within an industry, and we might not be able to meet that demand with our labor pipeline. At the same time, there can be an overall deficit of meaningful work for decent enough wages at the societal level. The hoarders can selectively employ people who will make them richer, all while the rest of society continues to crumble around them. That's what's been happening in America for decades. Either you're in the upper class or things or actively getting worse.

downboots 4y ago

That's near the top 20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income

mc32 4y ago

Surely inflation will not help. that said, before the post-war boomtimes people didn't have an option to "not work". Maybe families could put up with the ne'erdowell, but not society.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

It feels like the lower you go down the job skill ladder the more the more ridiculous employer demands become. Obv this has to do with supply/demand curve, but it's still frustrating to watch. My hunch when some these places say they can't get talent or etc. they have a particular idea of what they want: young & low pay & desperate. and all the complaining about labour shortage means: a shortage of low pay workers. Esp here in Canada as there was a couple years where the temporary foreign worker program wasn't fully operational due to COVID. My wife is trying to get back into the job market after 10+ years out. There's supposedly been a labour shortage here in Canada. She has -- in addition to being a mature functional adult who has raised a family and managed a home -- almost a decade of work experience (in the past) in marketing and some design at Apple, an honors degree in Anthropology with a boatload of academic awards under her belt, an a two year programme in UX research & design from a local university. She has been applying for junior positions and doesn't even get nibbles. Even local retail jobs etc. she's gone for have not responded.