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This isn’t directed at you/OP, but the anti dark roast thing seems to me to be a distinctively American coffee snob hipster thing. Many places in the world have

• mrguyorama 4y ago
  It's literally just the typical "If you don't share my tastes then you are wrong" that you get in lots of dumb snobbery circles.
• ryanSrich 4y ago
  I mean people can drink coffee however they want, but dark roasting beans absolutely destroys the majority of flavors within the bean. There’s no denying that. It’s similar to eating a steak well done. People do it, and it’s even very common in certain countries. But it’s removing the majority of flavor. I don’t see how anyone could deny that.
  • crowbahr 4y ago
    I mean a really light roast ends up having little flavor besides sour, if you're talking espresso.
    • LesZedCB 4y ago
      no way! i drink exclusively light roast espresso. yes, the sourness is pretty much always there. but there's blueberry (my personal favorite), red berries, tea, lemon, cinnamon. getting a balanced light roast espresso requires going much higher ratio to get a high enough extraction. try upping the temp to 95*C and go for 1:3 or higher.
      • decafninja 4y ago
        I've tried and tried to experience the flavor notes you mention across many different coffees from many different roasters, all sorts of brewing methods and settings, but cannot. I can taste sour, burnt, and something in the middle that I really like, and that's about it. Not a scientific experiment by any means, but there seems to be more people like me who cannot taste these flavors in coffee than you.
        • LesZedCB 4y ago
          i highly recommend cupping coffee, or at least trying 2-4 different coffees at the same time. you have to compare them side by side, that's where the notes make themselves apparent. trying only one at a time will not be sufficient as the differences can be subtle when recalled only from memory. believe me, i don't have a super palette and have a hard time finding the right notes myself. you can try tasting while looking at the SCA coffee wheel[1], using the inner ring for broad categories. [1] https://notbadcoffee.com/flavor-wheel-en/ https://notbadcoffee.com/flavor-wheel-en/
      • crowbahr 4y ago
        Maybe I've just had a few bad light roasts? It seems like really light sour roasts are really trendy with additives that cover up or mesh with the taste. Cappuccino/Mocha etc. I'll keep trying it because I do quite enjoy bitter and roasted flavors but the straight light-roasted espresso I got most recently was verging on undrinkable.
  • slothtrop 4y ago
    > absolutely destroys the majority of flavors Notwithstanding that this isn't measured whatsoever, it also develops flavor. It's just that it becomes more one-note. You won't taste fruitiness or other delicate things, but I don't want my coffee to taste like fruity tea. Neither do most people.
    • eurasiantiger 4y ago
      And that is because the harsh taste is a proxy for how much psychoactive MAO-A-inhibiting beta-carbolines the brew contains. You like it because it gets you more high.
      • krageon 4y ago
        Disparaging why someone likes it doesn't make you more right. If anything, attacking their reason for liking it (rather than the relative merits of liking one flavour profile versus another) makes you more wrong: It signifies that you've run out of meaningful things to say and must now attack the character / moral fiber of the person in question to get anywhere.
        • eurasiantiger 4y ago
          I’m not being derogatory, rather stating how things truly are in the psychopharmacological and neurobehaviorogical senses. If anything, you’ve now shown that you carry a belief that ”getting high” is inherently a negative prospect. What I wrote carries no such default.
      • slothtrop 4y ago
        I like it because it tastes better. You don't get to decide why I like something.
        • eurasiantiger 4y ago
          We all prefer the concept of free will, but the science is consistent: we tend to grow neurons to like the taste of things that increase dopaminergic neurotransmission in the frontal cortex, even if our first taste experience of them is downright awful. Many things affect that, though. Someone in a constant state of anxiety and stress is running on adrenergic circuits instead of dopaminergic, and thus will probably like the taste of poppy seeds, because the minuscule amounts of opiate alkaloids will make an ever so slight dent on that adrenergic activity and allow dopaminergic activity to dominate. It’s a similar story for coffee, but there is a lot of variability both in coffee and drinker. Someone with a high activity MAO-A gene variant will clear dopamine and other neurotransmitters from the brain more quickly. Darker roasts contain more MAO-A inhibitors, and so they are more commonly preferred by people with such gene variants. Same goes for MAO-B; inhibitors for it are more likely to be found in lighter roasts with floral overtones.
  • spudlyo 4y ago
    To me, light roasts taste like somebody squeezed half a lemon into my cup of coffee. That bright floral/citrus flavor is something I absolutely do not want in my morning brew. I crave that slightly bitter, heavy body, chocolate/nutty flavor that I associate with dark roasts.
    • Kirby64 4y ago
      There's degrees between lightest roast possible and dark roast. Also, bean origin has such a huge impact on taste, you don't need to have floral or citrus flavors even if it is on the lighter side. I roast some coffee that could be considered to be 'light' from a color/roast temp perspective but has absolutely none of the floral/citrus notes that you talk about. It depends so much on the beans. It ends up chocolatey and vanilla, with a medium body. Very little acidic taste. On the other hand, there's plenty of coffee that is just a punch of acid. As others have stated, you lose so much bean origin character the further into the roast you get and lose what makes the bean itself special.
    • hammyhavoc 4y ago
      My thoughts exactly. Now I drink espresso coffee in normal mugs, without coffee or sugar. There's a lot of flavour in coffee that's masked with milk and sugar. Spicy notes, chocolatey notes. Even mildly fruity notes, but the more bitter, the better.
      • mrsirduke 4y ago
        What you two are describing may be the addition of Robusta commonly found in Italian espresso blends and more. It's what gives those blends that bitter kick. If that's what you're after, try seeking out blends with 5-10% Robusta.
        • jhbadger 4y ago
          I also like coffee mixed with chicory in the New Orleans style for that bitter kick. The New Orleans Cafe du Monde (besides brewing it on site) also sells the mixture in some supermarkets for brewing at home.
  • markdown 4y ago
    > But it’s removing the majority of flavor. Removing some flavours and adding others. The fact that you prefer the initial flavours is subjective.
    • LesZedCB 4y ago
      eventually the maillard reactions are no longer developing flavors and are just burning. no different than a bagel, pizza, steak, or chocolate.
      • enaaem 4y ago
        Burnt is a flavour. Many people like bbq, pizza and baguette to be slightly charred.
  • sershe 4y ago
    Or you could argue it eliminates the flavor that needs to be eliminated; using your steak analogy from a sibling comment, drinking medium/light roast may be like eating the steak raw or frozen. Totally different flavor from medium-rare, just not the one many people want. I recently had an unwitting encounter with medium roast (at the same "semi-fancy" price point as I typically buy) when my wife put some fresh beans in our coffee container. First cup I made, I was wondering why the coffee tastes so bad, bad enough for me to dump it. There were all those weird sour/almost soda like notes that should not be in coffee. Then I got suspicious about the look of the beans, then I asked my wife... "I decided it would be good to try something new" ;)
    • quickthrower2 4y ago
      I find the light roasts interesting as opposed to enjoyable. I had one that tasted like orange juice (not as in “notes”, like actual juice!). Medium is my comfort zone though!
      • NatSydenham 4y ago
        The most bizarre coffee I've ever had was from the Papua New Guinea Baroida Estate. STRONG tasting notes of tomato. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I love weird flavours like that. Very interesting coffee.
        • SauciestGNU 4y ago
          I'm drinking some Papua New Guinea right now that I roasted myself, it's dry processed like many Ethiopian coffees are, and it tastes like berries and spice. The different origin flavors that can be found through different processing methods and soil conditions are amazing. There's so much variety. As a hobby roaster I value my relationship with coffee too much to deliberately drink bad stuff.
    • a123b456c 4y ago
      she might be trying to tell you something about your regular roast.
  • grapeskin 4y ago
    I like my steaks borderline completely raw, but I’ll admit it’s because I’ve been around steak snobs and a voice in the back of my mind won’t allow it any other way. But I’ll also admit that heavily browned beef has a distinctive flavor and quality very different from barely cooked steak. Imagine a sandwich with slightly crispy, well cooked beef and all its drippings. Now imagine one with a slice of meat that’s rare and soggy. Coffee is similar. Different roasts for different desires and uses. There is a point where it is objectively burnt, but not all dark roasts are burnt.
    • technothrasher 4y ago
      > I like my steaks borderline completely raw, but I’ll admit it’s because I’ve been around steak snobs I usually like my steaks straight up raw, but most steak snobs I know insist on medium-rare as the "perfect" temperature. Truthfully, I won't usually complain about anything from tartare to medium, and you're right, the different amount of doneness has a drastic effect on flavors and sometimes you just want one flavor profile or another.
      • galangalalgol 4y ago
        If it has lots of connective tissue like a ribeye, I want medium rare, preferably gotten that way over a long time at low heat then seared, if it doesn't, like a filet, I want it cold and raw.
    • kortilla 4y ago
      >Now imagine one with a slice of meat that’s rare and soggy. Bit of a false dichotomy here. I would take a medium sandwich here. Medium gets you the firmness that you’re hinting that you want for a sandwich without turning it into beef jerky.
    • fsckboy 4y ago
      > Now imagine one with a slice of meat that’s rare and soggy you mean a stack of thinly sliced bloody sheets of rare roast beef? I don't know what you're talking about, it makes an excellent sandwich.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • rfrey 4y ago
    It's not undeniable. Dark roasts are much more difficult to get right and be consistent with. Many roasters can't do it, so they're happy to promote the idea that people who like dark roasts are coffee dilettantes. To me, it's similar to how so many American microbreweries go crazy with hops.
    • civilized 4y ago
      > To me, it's similar to how so many American microbreweries go crazy with hops. Every "hopocalypse" type beer is utterly forgettable. It's like when you go to some tourist-y small town in the Midwestern US and the gift shop has five hundred different INSANELY HOT SAUCES no one's heard of. I guess "hoppy" is a powerful, accessible flavor that anyone can easily make, like squeezing a bottle of Sriracha onto some noodles.
      • parasubvert 4y ago
        This is overly dismissive of certain styles, the same could be said for any popular style like yet another chocolatey syrupy Imperial Stout, or yet another crisp Pilsner. Hoppy is anything but accessible, in my experience, clearly some people love them but most casual drinkers do not. I personally find certain DIPAs to be a near religious experience but others can’t stand them. To each their own.
        • awild 4y ago
          Sorry, but the modern form of DIPA most definitely is one of the most accessible forms of craft beer. They usually aim for low to no kettle hops, only whirpool and high levels of rx hopping. Fermentation, mash and grist all serve to make the beer sweet. The end result: a beer low in bitterness, silky, extremely sweet (these beers can finish above 1.030) with intense fruity notes.
          • parasubvert 4y ago
            That is nothing like the DIPAs I am familiar with which are typically very dry and strongly hopped, with only enough sweetness to make it palatable. What you describe sounds to me more like Barleywine, though admittedly the style has wide interpretation. I also think we may have very different definitions of the word “accessible”.
  • ehnto 4y ago
    Mm, you're just prescribing preferences I think. You're not wrong that it begins to remove and change the flavors, but that's what some people prefer. It's different to steak as well, in that the bean starts with a flavour profile unique to that bean, and the roast alters it. So roasting different times and temps will yield different results depending on the bean, and sometimes you start with a bean you don't like the flavour of and end up with one you do. Dark roasts and light roasts and everything in between are common here in Australia, where we have a fairly rich history with espresso coffee.
• abstract_put 4y ago
  I think this is the same principle as pretty much everything. Variety is almost always sought after, and then within that variety specific characteristics are cherished. I think the "anti dark roast" thing is "anti uniformity". The darker the roast, the closer every bean gets to tasting exactly the same. For example, why do people dump on pop music and think of jazz as "real music"?
  • MegaButts 4y ago
    > For example, why do people dump on pop music and think of jazz as "real music"? Because jazz+jazz=jazz https://youtu.be/GAbg8X9-uBI https://youtu.be/GAbg8X9-uBI
    • collegeburner 4y ago
      lmfao that guy got the perfect "npr voice" going on
      • 1123581321 4y ago
        He also voices Homer Simpson. Very skilled!
  • CTDOCodebases 4y ago
    This is a very accurate perception. As a side note I once had a conversation with the head roster of a place I worked at. I floated the idea of accentuating certain characteristics of brewed coffee by microdosing i.e. adding minute amounts of long chain starches to increase natural sweetness in the cup. The head roaster saw this as being fundamentally wrong and unethical. Maybe it was an egotistical response but in his mind the roasters job was to present the best possible unique expression of the green beans and doing what I suggested would be interfering with this.
• tsomctl 4y ago
  Perhaps. But that's how Starbucks works, by buying shitty beans and dark roasting them. It also makes it easier to have consistent coffee (consistently burnt, that is).
  • slothtrop 4y ago
    Starbucks coffee tastes like battery acid.
    • hammyhavoc 4y ago
      Here in the UK, I'd say Starbucks tastes of nothing. Hot brown drink. Their ground bags you can buy and take home are equally a non-event. Not sure why people rave about it. Coffee is some of the worst I've had, not withstanding UK McDonald's.
      • eloisius 4y ago
        Given the choice, I'll actually get a small cup of black coffee from McD's anytime. At least it's only a couple dollars.
      • kortilla 4y ago
        Which blend? They have multiple, including a pretty light one that you may have mistakenly gotten. “Starbucks” isn’t a blend or a flavor profile.
      • telchior 4y ago
        Isn't "hot and brown" a mainstay of British cuisine in general?
        • nibbleshifter 4y ago
          Only according to Americans, tbh, and often ones who have never visited. Ones who have visited the UK, when asked where they ate, often ate at hellish tourist traps or absolute shit tier chain pubs like Wetherspoons or Greene King.
• skadamou 4y ago
  TBH I've always found European coffee to be somewhat lacking - even from European importers in the states. Sure there is decent espresso in Europe but I've always found I enjoy coffee from local roasters in my area of the US more. IDK if this is because Europe style coffee is all dark roast but that has been my experience.
  • Tao3300 4y ago
    While my European travels are neither recent nor exhaustive, only in Germany could I get a decent cup of drip coffee. Everywhere else the "cup of coffee" was a really bad Americano.
    • ehnto 4y ago
      I doubt many places had a drip machine, most of Europe does espresso coffee. It does really depend but in most places a "cup of coffee" is going to be a bit ambiguous, what kind of coffee? Just a cup of espresso coffee would be pretty full on!
      • Tao3300 4y ago
        Yes, believe it or not, you understand the core of the issue! That ambiguity was the problem. I'd be in a cafe where the menu said "coffee" and I'd order it with no way of knowing what I was actually going to get until it was in front of me. More often than not in my anecdata, it was a bad Americano. And not a good Americano. A bad one.
        • jb1991 4y ago
          I rarely see people order Americanos in Europe, and when they do, they are usually Americans (and actually, the invention and name of the Americano is indeed to please American soldiers who were not used to espresso). Most cafes won't really know what a good Americano is supposed to be because it's unusual to order one and the baristas themselves probably never drink it. A typical customer either wants a tiny cup of pure espresso, or a milk-based drink like a cappuccino.
• zwieback 4y ago
  Agree, I don't even order coffee in Portland anymore because everything is "delicate, fruity, floral" light roast aka. tastes like goddam vinegar.
  • staticautomatic 4y ago
    Have you tried Spella?
  • 0xEFF 4y ago
    Water Avenue Coffee out of an aeropress tastes sweet to me.
  • technothrasher 4y ago
    Last time I was in Oregon I tried to go into a coffee place and get a cup of coffee. Now, I'm admittedly not a big fancy coffee guy, usually drinking whatever Dunkin Donuts or McDonald's swill I can get, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out what the hell I was supposed to order. It was all fancy names on the menu and nothing that was just "coffee". I finally just said, "I want, like, normal, I don't know, East Coast coffee." The guy rolled his eyes, but obviously understood me, because he gave me coffee that tasted normal and was just fine and dandy.
    • tptacek 4y ago
      Presumably the eye-roll was about the manner with which you asked, conveying confusion or distress about the menu, and not the drip coffee order; coffee places are happy to serve you a drip coffee (it's easy for them).
      • jgalt212 4y ago
        I don't think Blue Bottle does--only pour over. For cold brew, I think they sell drip.
        • tomjakubowski 4y ago
• sgtnoodle 4y ago
  There's a difference between a snob and a connoisseur. The amount of roast is just one more variable of dozens. I personally prefer medium roast beans when doing a pour over, but you can't go wrong with dark roast in an espresso, aeropress or moka pot. It's rather difficult to compare coffee that's brewed in such drastically different ways. Like the author of the article, I also don't mind bad coffee.
  • galangalalgol 4y ago
    This is how I feel as well. I've never come to appreciate light or medium with pour over or a good showerhead machine with proper temp. I can be ok with medium out of a moka pot as an Americano, but Aero press turns anything lighter than Vienna into something I can't finish. Moka pot with TJs french roast at medium fine grind is what I usually make. Dunkin donuts boxed coffee for meetings is right up there with my favorites though.
  • CTDOCodebases 4y ago
    > There's a difference between a snob and a connoisseur. I wholly agree with this statement. I worked in the coffee industry for a long time for a roaster that purchased some amazing coffees. We were buying top quality coffees at a time when most of our "specialty coffee" competitors were too cheap to pay for it. Some people really do not know what they are tasting and are so prone to suggestion. Some people also like to assume the identity of the coffee snob to feel some type of superiority to others or feel some type of belonging to a group. Personal taste is subjective. Some people like dark roasted coffees because they dislike acidity and like smokey flavours. To me a dark roasted coffee tastes like an ashtray. Taste itself and by taste I mean sweet, salty, sour, umami is not subjective however different people taste these in varying intensities. I happen to be sensitive to acidity so what tastes sour to me might not taste sour to another person. Aromatics too are not subjective with the exception of coriander or with people that suffer neurological taste disorders. Smell is an undeveloped sense in most people though so without visual cues a person might not be able to articulate what they are tasting or may generalise eg saying citrus instead of tangelo. Like the author I always took the opportunity to drink bad coffee whenever it was the only coffee available. To me it was a recalibration. Nowadays I drink the house espresso blend of my old workplace though an aeropress. It's funny to think I would drink up to 20 coffees a day and now I just have one a day. I brew the aeropress with the same recipe every day. It works out probably 75% of the time producing a nice simple chocolatey cup of coffee.
• acchow 4y ago
  > a distinctively American coffee snob hipster thing Didn't it start in Northern Europe and flourish in Australia?
  • astrange 4y ago
    Australians I’ve met all seem to think they invented something they call “coffee culture” (or at least that Melbourne did). I don’t know why they think this because it seems to be exactly the same as Seattle in the 2000s.
    • kortilla 4y ago
      Perhaps because it’s older? Coffee culture took off post WW2 in Australia with an influx in Italians but it didn’t start to catch on in the US until the 90s.
      • harpersealtako 4y ago
        Coffee culture has existed in the US since the 1700s at least when Americans started drinking coffee instead of tea to spite the British, it's just a different coffee culture than the modern cafe espresso culture and it's not "better" or "worse".
      • astrange 4y ago
        The US has had Italians for just as long, and unlike Australia didn't let the mafia corner the produce industry.
      • goosedragons 4y ago
        Wasn't Starbucks founded in the early 70s? It's an extension of the already existing Seattle coffee scene at the time. I think Australia has a fondness for espresso but not coffee. FFS the default drink in a McDonald's breakfast isn't even coffee but hot chocolate. What kind of coffee culture does that?
        • kortilla 4y ago
• barrkel 4y ago
  On the pourover side of things, coffee can tend towards a tea-like substance, with some degree of translucency and delicate flavours, the kinds of flavours that you need light roasting to preserve. It's in part exploring different kinds of drinks that can be made from coffee beans. You can also get a different kind of espresso, but it's wasted if it's going to be mixed into a milk and sugar concoction.
  • jquery 4y ago
    It's not wasted. Maybe I'm more sensitive than average, but I can absolutely tell the difference between different beans and roasts even after cream/sugar has been added.
    • CTDOCodebases 4y ago
      Working as a barista I was always amused when a down to earth tradesman who added sugar to their coffee would pick up on subtle blend changes while others who assumed coffee lover or foodie as part of their identity would be surprised when we casually mentioned that the house blend was seasonal.
• hamandcheese 4y ago
  Discovering that coffee could taste good (aka light roast) is what led me to become a slight coffee snob. At the time I didn’t even know what light roast was, but I sure as hell liked it. (Providing this anecdote since many others here are hating on light roast)
  • tootie 4y ago
    You probably say that because you don't like the slightly harsh, bitter taste of dark roast coffee and prefer the subtle fruity notes and aroma you can get in lighter roast. I, for one, love the harsher, bitter style. Same reason I eat 90% dark chocolate. De gustibus non est disputandum.
• codefreeordie 4y ago
  It's actually kind of funny, because I've noticed that there is one little coffee subculture in America that is big on dark roasts -- you'll find a pretty decent variety of dark roasts at the right-wing-political coffee roasteries. I'm not sure how we turned coffee roast level into a partisan political issue, but somehow we did.
  • bee_rider 4y ago
    There are right wing political coffee roasteries?
    • a-user-you-like 4y ago
      For ex: https://gab.com/RangerCandyCoffeeCompany https://gab.com/RangerCandyCoffeeCompany
      • bee_rider 4y ago
        Huh. I have no idea what to do with this bit of information, but I did ask for it, so thanks.
    • doublepg23 4y ago
      I believe https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ is the biggest, though I believe there was drama surrounding them.
      • JasonFruit 4y ago
        Yes, I was warned against drinking their "cuck coffee", but I never achieved clarity on what their unforgivable offense was.
        • codefreeordie 4y ago
          In case you actually wanted to know, there seem to be two key incidents that led to Black Rifle losing their reputation as the place to get right-wing coffee. The major one was an incident involving Kyle Rittenhouse. Shortly after his release from prison, he was photographed smiling and wearing some Black Rifle swag. This happened at a fairly sensitive time for Black Rifle, which was in the middle of opening its first physical coffee shop (in San Antonio, I think). The owner/founder posted on social media some negative commentary about Rittenhouse and indicating that the swag was not given by the company and did not represent the company's support of either Rittenhouse or his actions. As you might expect, the social media "conversation" on the subject got very hot very fast. One of the smaller right-wing coffee shops stepped into the fray and became very vocal supporters of Rittenhouse and his defense, making a bit of a name for themselves (and possibly a lot of money). The lesser event actually occurred first, and was also some commentary that the owner/founder of Black Rifle Coffee made. I wasn't following the Food Partisanship beat at that time, so I don't know exactly what was said, but he posted to social media some commentary about gun rights that was less guns-for-all than you'd expect from a company with their imagery (and product names), and that talked about the pro-Trump part of the Republican party as not being the good guys, whether armed or not. There's been some debate about the degree to which these incidents were about a company trying to continue to grow (and thus needing to gain mainstream "legitimacy") or whether the founder was actually never a right-wing ally -- but either way, these events were seen as a betrayal by a portion of the right-wing coffee community.
• alfiedotwtf 4y ago
  In the Philippines, there's a motto in cafes - "Bitter is Better". Yuk... Dark roasts (which makes it bitter) bring out everything bad about coffee IMHO. I'm with the parent comment here - medium to light roasts is where the actual flavour comes from.
• earth_walker 4y ago
  The big North American chains (Starbucks, McD, Tim Hortons, Second Cup, Van Houtes, etc.) push a "dark roast" as their somehow gourmet option. In all cases these are cheap old beans that have been over-roasted so that 'burnt' stands in for flavour. Many people have taken that experience to mean all dark roasts are bad, when in fact it's not the same thing as buying a fresh darker roast blend from a local roastery.
• zeta0134 4y ago
  I think a lot of this sentiment comes from one dark roast in particular: whatever Starbucks brews has the nastiest, most bitter after taste. It's probably the perfect blend to compliment their sugary concoctions, since there's no mistaking the strong flavor it adds, but it's (subjectively) quite awful on its own. I find dark roasts from nearly any other brand to be more tolerable, with all sorts of interesting flavors and variations.
  • analog31 4y ago
    I remember when Starbucks just began to branch out of Seattle... people went gaa-gaa over it. A grad school buddy of mine was so honored when Starbucks brought a franchise to his town. Today it's reviled. I doubt the coffee is any different, but it's become too commonplace to possibly be good.
    • supernovae 4y ago
      It’s consistent. I can be very happy getting an Americano in Austin and an Americano in Boston and know i’m getting a comfortable cup of coffee. I do appreciate the specialty roasters we have here.. but i don’t need to hate on starbucks - other than the ones that treat their employees like crap
      • Aeolun 4y ago
        Starbucks is like McDonalds, but for coffee instead of burgers. I dunno, I don’t need my coffee super fancy, but I do need it conveniently located right next to my office.
        • themadturk 4y ago
          This is the correct answer (to whatever the question was). I'm no great connoisseur (see my reply re: Walmart instant), but Starbucks is convenient, consistent and acceptable. And I generally like the people who work there as well.
• hardwaregeek 4y ago
  I’ll say that a lot of these countries drink coffee with sugar or milk. Sometimes a lot of both. They also expect coffee to be super bitter. That’s great if you like it that way. If you don’t, then light roast specialty coffee might be your thing. I like how James Hoffmann phrases it. He describes specialty coffee as different. Not necessary better or worse. Just different.
• eloisius 4y ago
  Italians drink espresso, and I don't know about Austria, but Turkey, Cuba and Vietnam drink heavily sweetened coffee. The coffee from those places are delicious in their own right, but don't exactly compare to light roast drip coffee, if a cup of black coffee is what you like.
• sgc 4y ago
  The darkest Italian roast has nothing at all to do with what goes as dark roast - and especially not Italian roast - in the US. The absolute darkest roast I ever saw in Italy was with just a hint of oil showing on the bean, and I only saw that once. They drink a medium roast most of the time, although there are light roasts readily available. I have seen documentaries with Italian roasters from Illy and on down to smaller boutique roasters, who come to the US and just rip into the roasters for their crappy burnt coffee. These are their customers / business partners, but they just have to be honest to them about what they are serving. Turkish coffee likewise is not a dark roast, but a medium roast - just brewed quite strong. I can't speak to the others. I am a grumpy old man and chase hipsters off my lawn, but this point ain't from them.
  • harpersealtako 4y ago
    You have to understand though that Italians are predisposed to rip into all non-Italian food whenever they get the chance, even if it's better than the native Italian version. Americans just have different tastes/cultures regarding coffee in general. Many of us (including myself) prefer a dark roast, it's nostalgic, consistent, and goes good with a generous amount of milk. I don't care if it's "hiding the flavor of the bad coffee" or whatever, I just like it. I've had coffee all over the world but I grew up with shitty burnt gas station coffee and instant coffee (or even cowboy coffee) made in a tin can over a campfire, and that's just as legitimate a culture as whatever the Italians are doing with their fancy espresso machines.
  • slim 4y ago
    turkish coffee is also not only coffee. it's a mix with other flavors. so it's some sort of art. with each family having it's own recipe.
    • mda 4y ago
      Turkish coffee is in general just coffee and water. Some drinks it with a little sugar. There are varieties with cardamon or mastic but they are very rare.
    • farslan 4y ago
• unmole 4y ago
  > American coffee snob hipster thing I mean there's a reason café americano is a thing: Take a perfectly good espresso and dilute it down.
• 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  Many classic coffee places are steeped in tradition. How would they know there are other ways to roast or brew coffee? There's a good reason that the most interesting espresso machine you can buy right now was from a successful Kickstarter, manufactured in Hong Kong and is controlled by an Android tablet(https://decentespresso.com https://decentespresso.com) and some of the more interesting coffee nerdery or equipment is coming from the UK, Australia or the US. Everyone has been doing classic medium dark espresso roasts and hitting the cocao, caramel flavour profiles since forever. Or getting really dark till you get the burnt and rubber notes. The point of lighter roasts and all this nerdery isn't to tell you what to drink. It's to show what's possible with the processing of green beans, roasting and brewing, and to bring potential new drinkers in. Snobbery in any past-time sucks, but discounting things based on that snobbery is also a bit silly.
  • YLE118 4y ago
    There's some interesting history of the decent machine/business in this video. A friend sent it to me when we were discussing what it would take to build an espresso machine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKA2COJRt6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKA2COJRt6M
  • sizzle 4y ago
    This is so cool, thanks for sharing!
• kixiQu 4y ago
  Honestly? Hated the coffee in Italy, found it sort of tolerable in Austria. However, that's almost certainly because I have no appreciation for robusta, even in blends. I'm a dark roast fan, even: we all tend to talk past each other because we haven't adequately appreciated just how learned (and ingrained) our preferences are. (this is really in support of your overall thrust, I suspect)
• birdyrooster 4y ago
  Light roasts have higher caffeine and taste less burnt. It’s just a fact.
• baxuz 4y ago
  Austria has pretty bad coffee. 99.9% of shops sell Julius Meinl from pretty badly maintained espresso machines. And their coffee is usually burnt. Italy has, in general, people who know how to make better coffee as they treat their machines and the procedure with more care. The coffee isn't all that better. Both Lavazza and Illy are robusta blends. Turkish coffee has nothing to do with espresso coffee, or filter coffee for that matter. It's my least favourite one as the traditional method of preparation basically includes boiling extremely finely ground coffee in a small pot called cezve. It's over extracted, burnt and usually has to be tempered with a ton of sugar and/or sweets. However, none of these coffees are nearly as bad as what the US folks, Poles, Germans or Finns drink. The coffee is basically old and overburnt. I guess it also goes hand in hand with preferring filter coffee.
  • murukesh_s 4y ago
    Which country has the best coffee as per your opinion then? Just wondering as in south asia we haven't started worrying so much about coffee yet - you either do traditional filter coffee[1] or buy instant coffee powder and be done with it. May be it's because coffee is almost always served with milk and sugar or we have other things to worry about. [1]https://theculturetrip.com/asia/india/articles/a-brief-history-of-south-indian-filter-coffee https://theculturetrip.com/asia/india/articles/a-brief-histo...
    • eru 4y ago
      Australia has great coffee. Singapore has some really good coffee these days (but also plenty of not so great one). We just had lots of good coffee in Chiang Mai in Thailand, too.
    • jon_adler 4y ago
      Melbourne (Australia) probably has the worlds best coffee. It certainly has the highest proportion of baristas sporting man buns.
      • LilBytes 4y ago
        Nah, you lost that mantle years ago. Brisbane reigns king now, Yours LilBytes the pretentious online only coffee snob /s
• Marazan 4y ago
  Italian dark roast is not American/Starbucks level dark roast.
• awild 4y ago
  I most definitely go to Italy and complain about the quality of the coffee. And I do actually appreciate bitterness in coffee.
• spoonjim 4y ago
  Well many of those places (outside of Italy) add stuff to the coffee like milk or sugar. In that case you want a dark roast because the flavors get cut by the additives. But if you’re drinking it black then a dark roast is very nasty.